The SNP have not ruled out calling another independence referendum if there is a material change in circumstances. The Tories, and Ruth Davidson in particular, are really upset by this, since they’re fighting their entire Holyrood campaign on the platform of blocking another referendum. It’s the political version of comfort food for them, a nice bowl of cereal, because it means that they can avoid any focus on the spectacularly unpleasant policies of the Conservative government in Westminster.
Ruth Davidson thinks that calling another independence referendum would be beneath Nicola Sturgeon. It seems that the only thing that’s beneath Ruthie is a tank, because she’s certainly not above firing a shell into the Scottish electorate if it suits her purpose. Ruth is fighting this campaign by firing off a fusilade of demands that the No voting majority of the last referendum be respected. The reason that Ruth is so vehement in her insistance that this majority be respected is because deep down in her blaggard Tory soul she knows that it’s a majority which is evaporating. The vehemence of the Unionist insistence that there must never be another independence referendum is a form of over-compensation. They’re on the wrong side of history, and they know it.
Since Ruthie struggles with difficult concepts like democracy, let’s try to explain it in simple terms that even the inhabitants of a fish tank, never mind the mobile armoured gun kind, could grasp.
Nicola Sturgeon isn’t going to call another independence referendum until such time that there’s a material change of circumstances. We can debate until the tanks run out of diesel what a material change of circumstances would consist of. There are any number of potenital scenarios. There’s a Brexit against the will of the Scottish people, dragged out of the EU even though we vote to remain because voters in the rest of the UK want to leave. There’s the renewal of Trident even though Scotland’s representatives are almost universally opposed and we get a fresh batch of nuclear obscenities on the Clyde, just down the road from Scotland’s largest population centre. There’s the complete and utter failure of the Unionist parties to deliver on all the devo-goodness which they swore blind they were going to deliver the last time their collective arses were on the referendum line. There’s the complete and utter annihilation of the Labour party, there’s Wullie Rennie saying something dumb, or there’s Ruthie’s tank stalling. Mind you all those things happen pretty much on a daily basis in Scottish politics. The truth is it doesn’t really matter. There’s only one trigger that really counts.
Ruthie’s position is similar to arguing that when an election is held we must respect the outcome of the previous election. No doubt come 2020, if (gods forbid) Scotland is still a part of the UK, Ruthie will be arguing that the result of the 2015 election must be respected so Scotland should only have the one Tory MP. She can waffle on about the once in a generation stuff all she likes, but that’s not a promise that I signed up to. Dunno about Ruthie, who allegedly was privy to all those ballots before they were counted, but I don’t recall voting Yes in the referendum to the question, “Should Scotland become an independent country and should this question not be asked again in your lifetime?”
Ruth and the Tories, as I’ve pointed out before, demand that Alicsammin’s personal opinion be treated like a guarantee engraved in stone and handed down by God on Mount Sinai, whereas the promises of the Unionist parties are mere serving suggestions that they can interpret to suit themselves. If the Tories are demanding that the Yes campaign is held to the Conservatives’ interpretation of Alicsammin’s comments, then it’s only fair that the Unionists are held to the Yes campaign’s interpretation of Gordie Broon’s vow. That even came with faux parchment, which is more than can be said of Alicsammin’s remarks. Ruth doesn’t even think it matters if a key guarantee of the Better Together campaign, that Scotland’s EU membership would only be safe if we voted against independence, is left smashed and broken in the dust of a Brexit. It’s only Yes campaign serving suggestions that are the word of God.
This is a democracy, or at least it claims to be, and that means people are allowed to change their minds. The only change of circumstances that’s important is the change of circumstances that means there will only be another independence referendum when the guys with the white hats, that’s the Yes side in case you were wondering, are going to win it. When enough people have changed their minds, in other words. And that in turn means that there will only be another independence referendum when there’s a majority of Scottish voters supporting independence. Now, if there is a majority of Scottish voters who support independence, as there will be when another independence referendum is called, then there is no No voting majority left to respect. Got it Ruthie? Probably not.
Ruthie insists that this policy is cynical. Coming from a Tory that’s high praise as cynicism is what passes for ideology if you’re a Tory. Admittedly Tory cynicism is of the self-aggrandising variety, the kind that pisses all over the weak and the marginalised and the poor in order to benefit the rich and well connected. However it would appear that Ruthie is a bit miffed that the Scottish electorate might take a leaf out of the Tory playbook and indulge in a spot of cynicism of our own. The only meaningful response that we can give to Ruthie in this instance is “suck it up Tank girl.”
Scotland is going to have another independence referendum, sooner or later. And there’s not a tank girl in the world who’s going to be able to prevent it. Scotland is going to become an independent nation, and it will do so thanks to the inadequacies of the Unionist establishment. Their cereal bowl is almost empty.
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[…] Wee Ginger Dug The empty cereal bowl […]
When Scotland becomes an Independent nation and makes its way in the world again, Ruth and the FlatEarthers are perfectly entitled to stand on the Reunification of the UK ticket at the first Independent Scotland GE.
It’s called democracy, Ruth.
My capacity for wonder at the stupidity of the Unionists’ arguments to remain in subservience to an English Parliament is tested daily.
Each day they fail to disappoint.
What about the £15 billion black hole, Kezia, Ruth and Wullie?
And the 152,000 college places?
What a sad bunch they are.
SNP x 2.
Reblogged this on Bampots Utd.
Davidson and the rest of her crew are orcs. They make me tired.
So Ruthie et al say that the opinion of AS after the Ref and NS, en passant, is sacred and must be respected.
A bit like that VOW which was broken the very next morning.
Excellent.
The “action girl” is getting a great deal of media attention – up mountains , on tanks , throwing darts and speeding round Knockhill while “oor Wullie” swings through the trees and encourages porcine fertilization and Kez chats to wee people and big people in that irritating wee girly voice .
Roll on May.
Yes, it hardly matters what Kez has to say. That voice IS irritating.
I always expect her to start any announcement with the phrase “Ma Mammy sent me tae tell yous”. One day maybe One day.
Well, it wouldn’t be Kez’s dad sending her to tell us. Jeff Dugdale’s an SNP man, if memory serves.
Ruth’s Tories have been in the political wilderness in Scotland since 1997. Slab started in the wilderness in 2015 after a cataclysmic implosion between Referendum 1 and 2015! The LibDems in Scotland and England are now below the radar. After Clegg’s wee flurry on the 2010 election before he sold out to the Tories in the coalition with Cameron, his party are kaputt.
One would think Ruth and the Tories in Scotland would have a wee think and ponder their low status and high toxicity,especially as their head office is becoming the nasty end again. Still, when illusion reigns supreme it quite overwhelms reality, more so when the msm do not reflect reality on the ground in Scotland.
A third term at Holyrood for the SNP must surely focus the mind of the UK entities in their “North Britain”. Hard headed reflection or more SNP baaaad with longer “a’s”!
What is left for them? Three more leaders to end up on the wall of failure at the branch parties.
Good stuff,Paul.The unionists won the referendum on a promise of “Better Together”.They aren’t capable of delivering on that promise because Scotlands best interests are different from London’s.There will be another referendum when the majority of Scots want independence.
Let’s not forget demographics.If London rule is to be maintained,unionists will have to persuade Yes voters or new voters over to their side to replenish their support,which is concentrated most heavily in the elderly.
We need people to change their minds if we want to win independence in the shorter term.They need people to change their minds if they want to secure the union in the medium term.They can’t win a decisive victory,because we’ll always come back at them.Only we can win a decisive victory.
The struggle for independence has been a long one.None of us know what twists and turns lie ahead.It may well be a case of two steps forward and one back,but the general direction of travel is clear.They know it.
Deep down, deeper and down they all know they didn’t win by a large enough margin. Even then what little they did win, was through the spasm of panic that led big Gordie to make the vow. They never expected it to be that close. They never expected the price to be that high. What they achieved was to create the impression in the UK that Scotland does not pay its way. It’s a Scotland too poor to even be British. The GERS report proves it they cry, pointing to the subsidy we get to pretend we’re not Scottish. All the while not realising how toxic they’re actually making the union. It’s a union were the view of Scotland is of a basket case economy being propped up by subsidy, not an equal partner and quite frankly, increasingly not welcome. This leads to the odd sight of them cavorting and reveling in this freezing atmosphere, while trying to convince themselves and us that its really nice and warm.
They fatally undermined their precious union with the UK. It’s going to die a horribly long and protracted death. All we can do is sit back and watch it unfold.
Ruthie wants the NO vote respected. But respect is a two way street. And there lies the dilemma. All she can do is appeal to the no vote. She has no way to win back the yes voter. And in a healthy multi party democracy that yes vote packs a larger punch than the no vote, which by default is split between 3 parties. They are the NO party as are the others. And that means, referendum or no, they’re looking at being at the back of the bus with no friends for quite some time.
“Deep down, deeper and down”
No Status Quo for you then David? 🙂
An obvious joke – couldn’t help myself :o)
To be fair to Ruth she is in a fight to the death to come second here!
Although she will be staying on should she not come second, just as David Cameron will if he loses the brexit referendum.
After all she has done such a good job of detoxifying the Tories hasn’t she? Did their vote not go up in 2015 like she promised? And they did they not get more seats like she said they would? They did take Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk like she said they would, didn’t they?
Oh no they didn’t in fact their vote slumped to lowest ever recorded and they nearly lost the one seat they had and Berwickshire went to the SNP!
Half way through her ten year plan that’s quite a record.
This time round I don’t think the target for her big gun is the SNP. I think she wants to steal “No” voters from Labour to help her to success in the battle of the also-rans
Seems crystal clear tae me. 🙂
The guarantee of the SNP is this: You, the public, decide if and when a second referendum on independence is necessary. If the SNP is the government of the day, their pledge is to act upon the wishes of the electorate and deliver the legislation for such a referendum.
The SNP will NOT drag anyone into independence, regardless of what brainfart bullshit the media and establishment parties would have the people believe, a majority of the people HAVE TO WANT IT AND THEN REQUEST THEIR GOVERNMENT ACT ON THEIR WISHES.
Now when Alex Salmond offered his opinion in response to an interview question, I would have agreed. Life chances, opportunities to turn right instead of left, a pivotal moment of profound change can indeed be a once in a lifetime chance. Here’s the thing though, rarer yet is a second chance to set the record straight. How many of us would love to go back in time and change a bad choice? God knows, I would for sure.
We’ve seen the fallout from indyref 1. History and public record are pretty much all out there for folks to see. A satisfactory settlement UNDELIVERED. Ongoing abuse by the orthodox media. A raft of unfulfilled pledges on jobs, industry, pensions and of course a much publicised olive branch never proferred.
All they had to do to win the post referendum challenge was keep a promise. Does anyone for an instant believe that the Scottish Government would not have delivered independence and a fully empowered parliament on March 24th of this year?
If you want a second chance, you know what you have to do by this point.
I think that when AS made his much quoted remark it probably never occurred to him that the SNP could lose the referendum AND yet remain in power, let alone gain popular electoral support on the rebound.
Who would have thunk it! 🙂
I certainly don’t think he foresaw just how opposition parties and the media would misrepresent his opinion.
But that’s ‘politics as it is practiced’ UK style for you.
Not so much misinterpreted as deliberately misconstrued; AS statement was, IMO, that it was a once in a lifetime chance for him *personally* to deliver Independence, which is why he stood down immediately to allow NS to continue the journey.
What they did and what they continue to do with that personal opinion is unforgivable. They know exactly what the context was and the legal position of the referendum and the subsequent ‘settlement’. Again they seek to mislead and misrepresent to suit their own selfish political agenda.
They know they’re on tae plums with half the electorate. They surely know by this point that repeating this nonsense is merely hacking off those who voted in favour of independence. I reckon the rinse and repeat of this myth is to keep their dwindling support onside. Grim right enough, but as a strategy? I suspect they’ll soon find it a case of diminishing returns.
Reblogged this on pictishbeastie.
[…] Source: The empty cereal bowl […]
Excellent post from WGD. History will not be favourable to unionists like Davidson. She and her ilk deserve no respect.
Respect is a two way street. In order to gain respect it is necessary to show respect. The unionist parties and the mediahave not shown an ounce of respect to half the electorate of Scotland.
This lack of respect to others will eventually be their undoing. Human beings thrive on being treated with honesty and humanity all ingredients of respect.
The Yessers consider their viewpoint worthy of quality research and debate. We want folk in Scotland to thrive in a respectful society that gives a damm.
Actually, Albawoman, the Unionist Parties have no respect for any of the Scottish electorate, even their own blind followers.
The only material change in circumstances that interests me is the ability to organise a referendum that cannot be rigged via postal votes, or in any other way.
Will we actually get a region by region breakdown of the voting or is there a chance that the UK gov will just release the UK figure and it’ll be (drumroll…) 55% for staying and 45% foe leaving. Cynical? Moi?
Robert, I was actually meaning Scotland’s Ref2.
Robert – this is something I have been wondering about since the Brexit referendum was announced.
Has anybody got any info one way or the other?
In my view, the Brexit referendum spells trouble for Unionists- whatever way it goes.
For the rest of us – Scottish, Irish and Welsh Independents – very cool heads and maximum strategic and tactical abilities will be needed as we could well find ourselves in a UK end game, whatever way the referendum goes .
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/02/14/the-british-question-faq/
good post paul and a pretty fair description of this tory who managed to get a few people to vote for her , not sure of the exact number of the deluded who voted for the delusional but i bet you if you stood for election you could give her a head start still and win , because in the end honesty and plain speaking tend to overcome shit and lies .
I believe there are still people even now who believe VOW delivered in full , what’s the saying Ignorance is bliss , do you think it’s cruel to have them finally address their illusions , in other words waken the dumb feckers up and let them know they were royally shafted and we on the “YES” side told them but they refused to listen , if they still dont get it they deserve everything thats coming their way courtesy of the Tory party assisted by Labour , and are idiots beyond help.
With you there Brian, 100%.
Just to put the SNPs stance on a future referendum under a glass for a second and why Davidson’s ontae plums looking for guarantees from the SNP.
Two cast iron guarantees will be found in that manifesto.
1. The SNP will start a new campaign to convince the electorate of the benefits of independence.
and
2. If the SNP are to form a majority government they will guarantee to hold a referendum as and when a consistent majority of the Scottish electorate desire one.
Both of those have been well noted already, but not the why of it.
The timing of a second referendum has been placed entirely in the hands of the Scottish electorate. As and when enough folk reckon they’ve had enough better togetherness they know they have a government in place willing to act on their say so.
That, in my opinion, is even scarier to the establishment parties. It means they have to play nice to a lot of folks they’ve let down, held in contempt, demonised and otherwise royally pissed off with their actions. They NEED the SNP to take responsibility for the people’s referendum and they NEED to party politicise the process. In their eyes it makes it containable, manageable. Going back to the people they so callously harmed and asking for a third chance cap in hand? In my opinion that forms their worst nightmare.
The establishment parties cannot contain or control an engaged and watchful population. They can’t use parliamentary procedures, chamber tactics, form cross party coalitions to thwart popular demand. All the motions in the world won’t stop that consistent majority being acted upon by a government WILLING to act on the ELECTORATE’S say so.
In short it really is down to you.
Now go make some new friends. 🙂
This is what real government is about macart. Well said and clearly explained.
SNP X 2.
You’re all wrong. Huw Edwards just told us on BBC News at six, reporting from Holyrood, that Scotland has one of the most powerful devolved Parliaments in the world. (He didn’t say who the comparisons are, so we have to take his word)
Huw Edwards has a dual role and personality.
He is both a clown and a puppet, but mostly a puppet.
His job depends on him taking the King’s shilling and he spouts whatever his masters tell him to. He is the proverbial ventriloquist’s dummy.
Tongue firmly in your cheek there, Brian.
My take on Ruthie is that she will always strive to put forward her rationale of why she is not fulfilling her promises to you.
Anyway, she is having a smashing time fulfilling childhood dreams – sitting on tanks, – she’s ex-TA ye know, driving round Knockhill, being centre stage.
LibDems’ Wullie is enjoying Softplay.
Liebor’s Kez is playing with Playdough.
Nicola Sturgeon is about campaigning like an adult.
When people like Ruth Davidson state they aim to be the main opposition and not aim to be in government, they have realised the inevitable that the party currently in power at Holyrood os going to win.
Where the “parties” of Kez, Ruth and Willie go from here is anyone’s guess. They are useless to their masters as Westminster lobby fodder; they do not have coherent policies, they are light weight and do not convince. Low party membership, skewed age range
When we cut out her bluster and nonsense about ” holding the Scottish Government to account”, there is nothing there. The electorate will hold the future Scottish Government to account. The yoonies carp and yell and bluster, but it comes from the deep down sense of entitlement to “govern” they feel they have by ” right”. They are in a quandary because the Scottish body politic is not any longer a mirror of Westminster. The divergence from the so- called UK norm has increased. There never was a “norm” anyway. The insular UK – Westminsterite “norm” was only one of many forms of governmental structure and procedure. In fact, compared to Scotland and the rest of the EU, it is the English, Westminster model which is the ” abnorm”.