Wednesday was a day of two polls, one of them was loudly touted by the anti-independence Herald and Scotsman newspapers, which these days are becoming almost unreadable in their strident and ceaseless attacks on the SNP even as they ignore far worse stories about the Conservative party. That poll was of course the YouGov poll which suggested that Labour could make very serious inroads into the SNP in the Central Belt at the next UK General Election. Both papers chose to make this poll headline news and retained the story as their lead throughout the day.
There’s no getting around the fact that the poll makes uncomfortable reading for the SNP leadership, it forecasts that the party would suffer losses even worse than those it endured during the 2017 General Election when the SNP lost 24 of its seats, many of which went to a resurgent Conservative party. During that election some very senior SNP figures lost their Westminster seats, including former First Minister Alex Salmond and the party’s then Westminster group leader Angus Robertson. The SNP remained the largest party in Scotland in terms of votes cast and seats won, but it was a hollow victory which was completely overshadowed by the losses which the party had incurred.
Several polls from a number of polling companies have recently shown that support for the SNP has declined. This is hardly surprising given the unceasing and furious wall to wall coverage that the Scottish media has given to the police investigation into SNP finances. Now I am most certainly not saying that this is not a story which the Scottish media should cover, of course it needs to tackle it, but there is a striking discrepancy between the relentless barrage of coverage given to the SNP finances story and the way in which the Scottish media has quickly glossed over the multiple scandals affecting the Conservative party even though unlike the SNP story these often involve taxpayers’ money in sums which are many multiples of the amount which is involved in the SNP finances story. To date there have been no suggestions that the SNP money being investigated by the police has been diverted into personal pockets, this is not the case with some of the many scandals assailing the Conservatives, which often do include allegations that taxpayers’ money has been diverted into private accounts, in one case allegedly being used to purchase a luxury yacht.
It is very difficult to escape the conclusion that blatant double standards are at play. However those who are determined to stop Scottish independence at all costs have managed to inflict some damage. If the SNP suffers significant losses at the next UK General Election the media narrative will be that Scotland does not want independence. That will be the established story even if the SNP remains the largest party in terms of votes cast and seats won and if the other pro-independence parties do manage to boost their vote share into double figures.
The fact that the second poll was completely ignored by the Herald and the Scotsman, at least I couldn’t find it anywhere on their websites, merely demonstrates that once respected publications are no longer serious newspapers, but have descended into being uncritical cheerleaders for British nationalism. This was of course the poll from Ipsos which was also published on Wednesday and which showed that support for independence is at 53%, and which although it has registered a drop in support for the SNP, still places the party well ahead of Labour in voting intention in Scotland. This poll was only given significant publicity by The pro-independence the National, which had also published news of the YouGov poll.
The Herald has joined the unreadable Scotsman in no longer seeming to care what sort of British state Scotland remains a part of, no matter how chaotic, corrupt or authoritarian the ruling party at Westminster may become, all that matters is that independence is staved off. This is what we are up against as independence supporters and campaigners, there is no level playing field in a Scottish media which will magnify anything which is damaging to the SNP and to support for independence and will ignore or trivialise anything which might boost support for independence.
However there is more than a glimmer of hope. It is famously said that a week is a long time in politics and the next UK General Election is not expected to be held for around eighteen months. That gives the SNP time to develop effective lines which will stem the loss of votes to Labour in working class and Yes supporting areas of Central Scotland. A clue to what that might be comes from that Ipsos poll that was effectively ignored by the anti-independence press. Just as a number of recent polls from different polling companies have agreed in showing a drop in support for the SNP recently, the polls have also concurred in showing that support for independence has not suffered in popularity along with the SNP. It’s almost as though voters in Scotland understand that a vote for independence is not the same as a vote for an SNP government in perpetuity, for all that the anti-independence media in Scotland is desperate for them to believe that it is.
Under Keir Starmer the Labour party has moved quite far to the right, it is now a supporter of Brexit and of many of the authoritarian and anti-democratic policies of the Tories. Like the Tories Starmer’s Labour pays lip service to the notion of the United Kingdom as a voluntary union of nations even as Starmer refuses to set out what the democratic path to another independence referendum might be. Labour is as hostile to Scottish democracy as the Tories are, and promise to introduce right wing policies which pander to the English nationalism of the so called Red Wall seats which are key to a Labour victory at the next election. Starmer’s Labour is no friend of Scotland.
The SNP can stem the loss of support in yes supporting and anti Brexit Scottish constituencies by ensuring that independence is front and foremost in its campaign for the next UK General Election. That means a de facto referendum, with the threshold for victory being winning a majority of Scottish seats and the largest share of the votes cast, the normal threshold for winning a democratic election. Only the SNP promises the people of Scotland a say in their own future. All Labour offers is a brief respite from this hideous Government, a Scotland which continues to be marginalised and ignored, and Tory policies delivered more apologetically.
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Wee Ginger Dug 
In 2017, a flash election called by Theresa May in a “back me or sack me” mood, the SNP did not fight it as an independence election and much of their vote stayed at home. People did not switch to Labour, they just didn’t vote.
I think that Scottish voters want independence to get rid of Torydom once and for all. We have never voted Tory since the Tory Party incorporated Unionist party in the 1950s. We are not a Tory nation. We are a left-of-centre social democrat nation similar to the Nordic nations.
The SNP must centre independence in the next election, whenever it comes along – and it may well come along this year. If voters are drifting to Labour it may well be that the SNP have given them no hope of a Tory free world and the next best thing is the Labour Party. And what a dismal prospect that is.
The voters that Labour are picking up are mainly from the Tory party. In that Ipsos poll SNP support is down 4% from Dec, the Tories down 8% and Labour up 10%.
That 4% loss though is bad enough to lose them 20 odd seats with Labour wearing the Tories clothes and now stealing their Unionist support giving them a 10% increase in many seats where they were already the 2nd biggest party behind the SNP.
That is enough to take SNP seats but it is mainly with support from previous Tory voters and not from SNP voters.
Never trust the Polls. Always wrong, especially in tight margins. Censored and fined many times. Making £Millions. Making more than the fines. The piper pays the tune. Money making business for political associates. Private and public money being used to line pollsters pockets. Trying to manipulate the vote. Gerrymandering. Cambridge Analytica. Facebook data protection laws broken. Censored and fined many times. Hedge funds making £Billions. Donation £Millions to make £Billion. Hedge betting on the stock exchange on the results. Brexit. Indy Rev, GE etc. Big business using Polls to influence the result. Always get it wrong, especially in tight margins. The Bookie make a better prediction. Their business depends on it. Statistically they are more likely to get it right. Better calculations.
Starmer has forgone any that remained of the left in Labour party, he did that when he unceremoniously dumped Corbyn on his arse and told their NEC to refuse to allow him to stand at the next election. What a humiliation that is to inflict on a former leader of your party.
But here he is and he knows what he’s doing, and that is not just all about winning the Red Wall seats, it’s about scooping up the votes of absolutely anyone that voted Tory in 2017 or 2019 and bringing them over to the New New Bright Blue Labour Party.
That’s what they have become, out and out Tories and that’s why Tories in Scotland are flocking to him, he’s a Unionist – check, he hates immigrants – check, he supports Brexit – check. In other words him and his party are Tories and they feel safe with him as the UK Prime Minister.
Maybe its time for the real left of the old Labour Party and Trade Union leaders that remain here in Scotland to take a good long hard look at who and what they are backing and open their eyes to the reality.
It’s simply an undeniable fact that they are supporting a Tory.
An excellent overview….the Labour Party in Scotland is a mirage …it has very few members and even less activists …The branches and constituencies are moribund. This has allowed the Orange Order to become legitimised within the Labour Party by joining branches and gaining candidate nominations.
Brexit it is now acknowledged by the political establishment to be a total failure. Labour continues its support of Brexit and its consequences for us all.
Scotland needs out of this political morass. I totally agree that the SNP need to put Independence front and centre of its strategies and campaigns.
The Yes movement has its moment of power and has to go for it .
I entered a Panelbase opinion poll yesterday.
It got to the question ‘Which party did you vote for at the last general election’
I put SNP and was immediately screened out.
Not concluding anything, just saying.
1045 for the Ipsos poll 6 months ago, 1087 for this poll, we have this detail from the tables:
Undecided 39 to 51 (4% to 5%)
Would not vote 74 to 87 (7% to 8%)
Refused 6 to 18 (1% to 2%)
Too small to be conclusive, but outside voting base from 119 to 156 (119/1045*100 to 156/1087*100) which is 11.4% to 14.4% (+3%) is maybe a bit significant.
If a trend that correlated with a drop in support for the SNP it could be there that the support is going – people like me saying “SNP not making Indy important? I’m not voting SNP”. But not voting Labour, just not voting at all.
But that’s a very small base to make firm conclusions on.
Oh yes
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2023-05/ipsos-scottish-political-monitor-may-2023-tables. pdf (remove space)
and
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-12/scotland-political-monitor-tables-december-2022. pdf (remove space)
SNP support down 9% (10% of those who would be 9 or 10 out of 10 certain to vote)
Table 7 also has an interesting take on that – Nov 22 – 9 or 10 to vote 78%, drops to 71% in May 2023. That’s 814 out of 1045, down to 769 out of 1087 – a fair number less out of a larger overall survey. That is significant, put that way.
It’s over to the SNP on 24th June. Take note of WGD’s paragraph starting “The SNP can stem the loss of support …” or have a lot of unhappy ex-MPs.
Still, if the SNP do nothing and get ripped asunder in UK October 2024 then maybe they’ll learn the lesson in time for Holyrood May 2026. Or not.
The election cycle will inevitably lead to a future Tory government again. It may take 5 years of Labour government for Scots to be reminded that no UK government will ever accomodate an aspirational Scotland. So be it. “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss “. The road to self determination is long, arduous and often disappointing. However Independence, as a concept, cannot and will never , be put back in its box. We are in a trough and may not yet be at the bottom however, at some point sooner or later, we will take the opportunity of Independence. I am cautiously optimistic that, at nearly 60, i will see my country take its place as an Independent nation in the global community. Patience and perspective are required in these times
“The election cycle will inevitably lead to a future Tory government again”
EXACTLY ……the only reason I would think MORE Scots would unwisely consider LENDING their vote to Labour at the next GE would be to TRY and remove the current Tories at WM….as Labour and their media are ONCE AGAIN spinning the LIE that Labour needs to WIN back Scotland to win the next GE……surely MORE Scots can do basic Maths and see this for what it really is…. as in pure Shee-ite…….
Problem with that message is that a vote for Labour in Scotland at the next GE is not a FOREVER vote…..so if Scots really do seek permanent CHANGE then voting Labour is not THE answer……indeed it will be for them a temporary respite (or rather NO respite at all given what and who they want to represent as a party…clue….NOT Scotland or Scots voters)
Let’s not FORGET all that New New Labour have been saying where they are proving that they will be just as bad for Scotland as the Tories have been as they position themselves into another version of the Tory party ….as in them ADOPTING Tory policies…..the biggest one being BREXIT…..
Starmer is singing from TWO hymn sheets…..in England he is promoting his Tory credentials while in Scotland, via both HIM and his branch office, he and they are accusing the SNP of being just like the Tories (as in HIS party) and pretending Labour have a FORM of socialism at the root of their party…..they don’t…..socialism is a DIRTY word as far as the Labour party are concerned.
Starmer pretending within the UK that HIS party are all things to all people…in ALL parts of the UK….
The media HERE as per….blank out all of the bad bits that New New Labour are promoting in England….as in evidence aka PROOF that would and should definitely see NO resurgence in support for Labour here in Scotland…….I mean those supposed Labour gains in Scotland at the next GE…do the voters in those seats not watch UK (English) News programmes….
Have they, as voters, not heard what Starmer has been saying ?
Why would you show support for a potential new boss when he is proving via all that he is saying to be the EXACT same as the old boss ….as in the the old boss being the one that you hated and NEVER EVER supported……
Long time until the next GE……more than enough time for Starmer to prove definitively how much he is pushing his party to the right in politics…..and also enough time for the SNP to convince MORE Scots of that FACT and then to also convince them that ONLY with independence will Scotland have a chance of getting back into the EU……and too in convincing MORE Scots that via all they have lived through since 2014 NONE of the PLEDGES or PROMISES that Labour and other political parties assured them would be fulfilled have actually materialised as in the OPPOSITE has happened by the NO vote winning in 2014……we ARE living THROUGH the evidence of THAT !
” Lead us don’t leave us Scotland’ morphed into the announcement of EVEL on the morning after the 2014 Independence referendum…..that’s how quickly and easily SOME Scots were proved to be fooled by those on the NO side…..the NO side which included LABOUR party, LIB DEM party and of course the TORIES led by David Cameron…..are these Scots not now at the stage of ” Fool me once shame on you…fool me twice shame on ME”…..I hope so.
This is what happened 2017-2019.
Note that the certain to vote is down by 6% in the Ipsos poll on their last one.
https://www.whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/on-a-scale-of-1-to-0-how-likely-is-it-that-you-would-vote-in-a-general-election/
It’s a common pattern in all right now and explains why the main 3 opposing parties seem to be going nowhere yet the SNP have dropped to around 40%.
It’s caused by a lower response rate from SNP voters and / or these saying they are less likely to vote. There will be shy factor over the finance thing, also some concerned and waiting to see what happens, with a lot saying Green for now, hence unrealistic numbers here under FPTP. The effect of the reluctant / shy and ‘not sure I’ll vote’ is to creat a loss to the SNP share that then gets split proportionally between the rest as everything is normalised. However, when this is say 5,6,7%, you can hardly see it when divided up, unlike if it all went to someone else. So all the others look as stable as they have been since minibudget. Unable to make inroads because most SNP voters are lost to the union.
This effect – and other weighting failings – ahead of 2017-19 meant the pollsters all got the 2019 election totally wrong. Panelbase had 38% SNP in their final poll. Facepalm. Ipsos were ones to get it right the earliest, calling 44% SNP on the 25th November, but even they were fraction under. Just at the end did these missing voters appear and start saying what they were going to do, taking the average up above 40% in the direction of the final 45% outcome.
Which is why folks should always be careful with mid term polling.
Written for family but applies here to, the realities of a de facto, not to say we don’t do it, but commentators never look at likely outcomes and risks, I know why it’s a campaign right. but, the dynamis=cs are there.anyway..
The SNP leadership now has a stark choice. Myself I think we just need to go for it now, a culmination as I call it. There seems no sense in waiting any longer.
So to the SNP, Humza has two very difficult choices in front of him, He tries to dilly dally and he will lose support from the grass roots and from within the party, He has I think a lot of backing for not doing the De Facto, which is a further headache for him, how is he going to please everyone.
But that choice if he makes it, to just keep on keeping on has consequences for him as leader and for the SNP as a party. He must know this, he’s not an idiot.
The other choice is doing the de facto, which is in truth the easy part, I think we can eek a win there. Though I was chastined somewhat by a article saying we haven’t really changed the outlook of Scotland since 2014, we have been more bouyed by demographics with a young generation coming through keeping the flame alive, Not so good if that is true..
Anyway doing the de facto is easy….
So what about the actual mechanics. And mind now, I’ve set my stall we should go for the de facto….
First putting a single issue on a ballot paper, it sounds good, but I’m betting some will find that a bridge too far including the % who don’t Vote SNP for indy, they vote for their governance, how will they and others see a single issue ballot paper, answer dunno, but the other side will do their level best to paint it as a dereliction of duty. Same applys for the SNP leadership = risk.
Then the really difficult bit, with the win under our belt, how do we bring it home?? Unless we run an extremely slick campaign and raise numbers greatly it’s going to be a narrow win.
Now fairness and democracy should win the day here. But I’m under no illusions that it will.
I’m not convinced at all that Westminster will suddenly find a coincience, I think they will continue in the vein thay have done up until now, That Tit Starmer if he wins will be looking to make legacy for himself as the geezer who kept the UK together, so forget any help there.
So with a beligerent Westminster and a narrow vote, how will we push the issue? Again I dunno and I suspect neither does the SNP. Because there isn’t a clear way to push it, if Westminster simply refuses to talk. We can then of course up the ante with direct action. On the streets if needed. again to what end and how do we win? They control media, communications, pensions, benefits, the civil service, polis, army…..
Then there is the great unknown, or perhaps it is known and too unpalatable for public consumption. How will the world feel about backing a narrow win, in a rather odd de facto referendum?? Remembering the UK still has soft power, lots of it, if you don’t think that is true, then look at what they have managed with the EU, the EU has constantly moved position to accomodate them, the sixth biggest economy with a huge diplomatic network still matters., We will be asking 30 countries to ignore that relationship and come down on the side of a pretty divided country, will they want to do that, again we dunno. Maybe the SNP does. If it’s not unequivocable support, then what??
I can only go on what I’ve heard and though the de facto wasn’t in the mix then, what we know is for countries to back us in the EU they will prefer, shall we say, for Westminster to be involved and the democracy is done under the constitutional relationship we have in the UK. that’s old news now but no one of any consequence has moved away from that stance.
The UN forget them, the UK will veto or threaten to, that is all that is required, and if they don’t, to save face, they don’t have to listen to the UN anyway, the EU will not get involved unless it’s membership in their totality agree.
So that’s Humza’s brief, his job is to find a way through all that, deliver a win from De Facto and be able to move the issue after that win, in a way that will progress our move to soveriegnty, if people in the SNP feel they cannot successfully prosecute that whole set of events, I would say caution and honesty is wise.
In campaigning terms, unfortunately honesty isn’t always helpful, to tell people the truth that the De Facto comes with enormous risks and a sizable chance of failure isn’t what people need/want to hear, but it’s probably the truth.
Alba and their comms people know this of course, but they don’t have to put their money where their mouth is, they can just sit sniping from the sideline about how easy it all is, yet the messiah could not see past the section 30 order when he had his chance. Aye it’s that easy Alba.
So a culmination for good or bad is my view but I get why it might not be regarded as a good idea, if you say you can do this then you need to have a fool proof plan as to how, The truth is the de facto route is an act of desperation at it’s core, we arrived here not by choice, but by legalities and our own hubris, of do something, anything. Ok so we’ll do that but someone has to carry the can when it doesn’t work, that will be the SNP not Alba.
And if you are promising rainbows then honesty demands you look at the likelihoods of winning and moving on.
Those likelihoods are far from clear.
Now though, we’ll just have to push and see, the SNP cannot just let this lie, that’s a
disaster in it’s own making.
One thing is for sure I don’t fancy Humza’s job….
All this and I mean all of it could change if Scots were braver. Instead of anxious that every little bit of their lives are hammered down is some kind of economic and social guarantee, that their lifestyles will not be harmed. A sorry state of affairs when you look at the risks some countries took just to be a country and a nation they could be proud of. We don’t have that sadly, we have a people who will not contenance simple change for a nation, much less any percieved hardships.
Well see what happens at the conference.”
A lot of very pertinent questions in there around the mechanics of what happens after a successful defacto election result for independence.
Hopefully these will be discussed at the special conference, but continually saying that Westminster will ‘have to’ abide by the results just won’t cut it in my opinion.
These things should probably discussed openly, but I think they aren’t because a campaign or movement needs to stay positive and optimistic.
In the main I only bring these things up, to remind everyone, that contrary to the online griping about “do something” there are very real and very big challenges attached to moving to independence, even with a yes vote.
People never consider that when they criticise the lack of progress. This is going to be a big ask of the SNP and I think they are painfully aware of that, it’s their neck that will be in the noose, if it goes horribly wrong
So have a little understanding, this isn’t just we vote yes in a de facto and everything else is a given. The real world doesn’t work like that.
Countries aren’t I suspect just going to give us a blank cheque on recognition, I think (with no evidence) that we probably know what the world expects, that may be part of the problem going forward
Sorry for all the typos in the first post, hit the button without spell checking and there isn’t an edit function.
Don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there as it’s bringing a bit of reality to the discussion!
If we have a defacto referendum we will find votes for the main pro independence parties to increase.
The Pollsters all got the ‘election’ wrong. Especially in tight margins. Brexit wrong. Even Farage got it ‘wrong’. To make Hedge funds £Billion gambling on the stock exchange, polling fraud. Cambridge Analytica. Facebook data breaches. Censored and fined many times. The £Billions made outweigh the fines, Gerrymandering, The Pollsters trying to manipulate the vote. The voters decide. Not the Pollsters. Secret vote. Illegal gerrymandering. The piper pays the tune but does not get away with it. It needs better regulation for the Polling industry. The unionists getting away with it. Political pollsters linked to the unionists Parties. Censored and fined many times. Using private and public monies to try and influence the vote. The past is the past. Look to the future. Times are a’changing. The history of the past does not necessarily influence the future.
The population increases and declines. Figures? Not comparing like with likel
STV D’Hond’t different voting systems. Different catagories of voters. Different numbers overall. Different turnout.
Mark McGeoghegan analyses the two polls – Ipsos and Yougov.
Mark McGeoghegan: Here’s what Scottish independence polls tell us
https://archive.fo/muUtr
I think he’s a bit of a K McK, with a different slant when in the Herald. SGP does a more ruthless one, but I think way better, with two articles yesterday.
https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/
Yes – he does come across as a bit of an ex Labour man who can’t quite bring himself to support something with the word “national” in it (except for National Insurance, National Lottery etc.). But I could be wrong.
James Kelly makes some very valid points. It’s good to see him back on the psephologist wagon again.
I don’t know how much he’ll be, as his funder is going slowly. But we do need him, as apart from being Scotland’s main psephologist with Curtice being his apprentice, he also does run his own polls nwhen he has the funds. Maybe he could explore more SNP voters staying away if a lukewarm SNP Indy message.
The yougov is a crock of shit. 7% other? Right-oh. And pigs will fly.
That alone means the rest of the numbers are bulls**t before we even bother digging in to the non-existent tables.
SNP vote declines – some moving to Labour ?
Independence numbers up – SNP voters still supporting Indy ?
As a former Labour supporter I cannot fathom how anyone who supports independence can possibly ALSO support Labour who have shown complete disregard for Scottish democracy by turning their face against a referendum regardless of the volume of support by Scottish voters .
Starmer has even defaulted on his ”pledges” to his own supporters by trashing many of the ”pledges” that got him elected as Labour leader .
So if he can’t be trusted to be true to his own supporters , what chance is there that anyone in Scotland who votes Labour but wants Independence will get satisfaction from this duplicitous politician ?
Does not compute !
Yes it is a rather weird belief that voting Labour is going to get Scotland independence. The only vehicle to achieve Scottish independence is the SNP. Not Alba, nor Greens, nor ‘the Movement’ nor the bloggers. This is why the SNP is attacked both by the media and supposed supporters of Indy2.
Perhaps they hate the Tories more than they love independence. Until now, independence has been the only way of getting rid of the Tories for good. But if that prospect appears to recede then voting Labour may seem like a viable option.
Labour still won’t get rid of the Tories because they have turned themselves into Tories. Soon there will be another general election and a real Tory return. The Tories are the English National Party disguised as “British”.
The English labour party is now in a position that it has to turn more tory to keep hold of the tory voters Tony’s “New labour” won in the south east of England. It was called the “middle” England vote at the time to confuse us. It has only went a bit more tory than it went then.
I agree with you Capella – with Labour attitude to Brexit and Holyrood Section 30 request it is depressing.
However if a Labour revival does occur in Scotland you are correct that it is only a matter of time until English electorate return to vote Tory. This may be time of maximum opportunity for SNP and independence movement. Let’s hope they have got act together to maximise this opportunity should it arise.
Worth noting in the circumstances. It might be police Scotland, but the racists will be voting for British parties / the union. As far as I know, there are no Scottish racist parties. At least beyond a few idiots in a pub corner.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65706748
Police Scotland chief says force is institutionally racist
mods can you look at removing the above post please, the poster has no evidence that the racists “will be voting for British parties / the union”, unless he is implying that no racists vote for ‘Scottish Parties’ / ‘an independent Scotland’
‘Mods please look at removing this post’ as it is aimed at implying racists would vote SNP, Green / pro-EU out of some completely unfathomable love for left wing liberal free movement polices etc. 🙂
We can expect racists in Scotland to vote for parties of the right to far right (authoritarian) as rule, not ‘leftie liberal pro-migration’. The only parties of the former nature gaining any measurable votes in Scotland in recent history are British, e.g. UKIP, Britain First, the National Front, the hard right of the Conservatives and so forth. There are no Scottish, pro-indy equivalents in existence (outside, maybe, of pub corners) that I’m aware of.
That’s sufficient evidence to validate the main argument made.
The chance of a racist voting for right wing parties is higher that for someone voting for left wing parties is (generally) high yes. But you did not say that you said:
” but the racists will be voting for British parties / the union” implying that it will only be people from those groups who are the racists. You need some evidence to prove this, otherwise you are just making stuff up.
There are times HMS James Cook’s raison d’etre is difficult to ignore, but it is quite impossible when James’s instruction from Hi-Jack ‘make smoke” and smoke doth appear, to ignore early doors “Turkey building four new CalMac ferries ‘on time’ ” as the story of the day – Seriously ? They are still trying to flog this incontinent pigeon.
Why?
The big story on bbc/uk was “New figures show UK net migration reached 606,000 in 2022” – Brexiteer Armageddon..
Aside throwing the Margaret Ferrier story through the same Tardis they’d used for at least the past month to give semblance of a “fresh” story (rather than “ripe”), they had a backup plan by pre-reporting what PS’s outgoing CC was going to say which ultimately mutated to their approximation of a future truth, “Police Scotland chief says force is institutionally racist” – Actually he didn’t. He didn’t say James Cook was a total cockwomble either.
PS CC’s statement wilfully misrepresented by HMS James Cook now features at #4 on the UK webpage, the immigration figures story simply vanished…
I’m almost willing to bet the Viceroy purred down the line…
England sending nukes through the centre of Glasgow without the permission of Scots, as it does regularly to make it feel it has a big willy somehow, contrary to what everyone in the world thinks.
National story:
https://archive.is/wip/UiHzc
Who was at Chequers? Boris camp in panic mode over claims he hosted friends and family
Headline from the Independent that states Johnsin “furious” that his lawyers handed over his diaries to the police that are claimed to show he had friends and family staying at Chequers during lockdown.
https://archive.ph/DxawF
I love the attempt to defend him from the friend “he does not think he did anything wrong” aw diddum’s, it’s hilarious, of course he’s going to say that, he’s always said that about every feck up he’s ever made. His days are numbered now for sure and for Johnson the party’s are well and truly over hahaha.
Meanwhile, in a parallel universe, the Commons vote on Margaret Ferrier had to be postponed because “too few MPs were present in the Commons to guarantee it would be carried.” and that would have been terrible!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65702313
Yes, but as usual the BBC have almost v=certainly got it wrong and the Torygraph have more than likely got it right.
https://archive.ph/AQ7b6
I noticed the BBC didn’t mention that in its report on the “Scotland Politics” page.
I’ve no doubt either that once the Johnson case has been settled enough MP’d would have been around to then throw the kitchen sink at the nasty Covid rule breaker Ferrier.
The “Privileges” committee must be working overtime these days.
Maybe some of the MPs not present are thinking “There but for the grace of God go I”, or something similar and unreligious!
Brexit vote. Scotland 60/40.
Rest of the UK worried about migration. Voted for it.
Migration caused by illegal wars and blowing other countries to bits. US/UK Gov policies but they do not take responsibilities for the migration of people. Other countries have to. Westminster warmongers. Germany has 12million migrants and a better economy.
Saudi Arabia 33million pop.. A third 11million are migrants.
A majority of people now do not support Brexit. Especially the young.
“Giugliano, a member of the SNP’s National Executive Committee (NEC) also told the podcast that he believes a wider convention, with the whole Yes movement, should wait until after the next General Election.”
Good grief. He really hasn’t got the message.
Why not wait till the one after that, or the one after that?
He’s the Policy Development Officer on the NEC. He was shocked to find out that Kate Forbes was a member of the Free Church and thought that should rule her out of high office. No idea what he thinks of members of other churches or mosques.
If he thinks a wider convention should wait until after the next general election I wonder what policy for independence he is developing. I was rather hoping we would be independent after the next general election.
He’s a big part of the problem. Nothing wrong with saying that an SNP convention is fir – the SNP. But why on earth did he have to go beyond that and make a midden of it?
No worries, the NEC are on the case and will produce an “interim” report in June on their findings. So exciting!
Yes indeed, a report by the NEC on what the NEC did wrong and what the NEC ought to change or even who the NEC should change.
What could go wrong?
Join the snp and change it or bicker from the outside and bicker and bicker.
I certainly have informed my MSP at a local meeting what I believe along with many others likeminded. They either take note or step down or are will be removed / challenged as a candidate.
Been there, done that, resigned. Good luck Hamish100, I hope you succeed. If I thought there was reform then I would rejoin.
Utter tripe, how many mandates for Scottish Independence does he need. If this is the way the SNP are being directed then we are truly fu***d !
It’s not about Tory or Labour, it’s about England, because they’re the ones who will choose the next government in Westminster
Scotland has nothing whatsoever to do with it as has been proven time and again
For 60 years if Scotland had never cast a vote in any general election the exact same political parties would have been elected by England
Folk don’t seem to get this, whichever English party might be voted for in Scotland can and always has been outvoted 10 to 1 by the voters of England
A vote for Labour in Scotland means absolutely nothing if the voters in England disagree and vote Tory , all that happens is Westminster then declares itself the winner over Scotland by lessening the SNP vote confirming that Scots don’t want change
There’s only one party in Scotland that counts, and it’s the SNP
I know I know, folk will be throwing their arms up and shouting for this party or that party, all of which can win nothing even collectively, and Westminster will not pay the slightest bit of attention to them anyway
As far as independence is concerned no one in England gives two hoots for any party other than the SNP, and sure I know the ALBA supporters will gnash their teeth and shout at their devices in horror but the facts are that as a political party ALBA means nothing, nada, zilch as far as England is concerned
I have to giggle a bit at anyone worrying about some Labour victory in Scotland
When you listen to the Starmer and Sarwar double act all you hear is begging Scotland to help them win in England, but to do that practically the whole of Scotland would have to vote Labour then all cross your fingers that the English voters might, just might, happen to agree with you, but remember, they usually don’t do they, then where are you gonna be? Fuc*ed by your very own lack of commitment and self doubt once again led up the garden path by the usual English strategy of divide and divide
Sarwar is already making a desperate fool of himself by grinning and trying way too hard to even convince himself he can come a distant second
Only single minded SNP total support can save Scotland from the excesses of England dictatorship, if we don’t do this together Scotland will slip back 25 years and stay there
Every vote for the SNP is a vote that tells the world Scotland does not wish to be ruled by England, splinter into little factions and be forever a little faction colony, England wins
Everything happening right now is about destroying the SNP and removing the only credible, internationally recognised, political force capable of facing down westminster.
It’s so scary to know that there are still people in Scotland that don’t know this
Scotland needs as many Independence Parties it can get. Especially with STV and D’Hond’t. Imposed by unionists without a mandate. Cooperation is also needed for the vote. Independence Parties should unite in support. Even with separate policies. To increase the Independence turnout. The Independence turnout at the Ballot Box will increase.
More Independence supporters need to get out and vote, Take another with them for a higher turnout.
The support is there it needs to materialise in votes. March to the Ballot Box. Along with another, persuade others.
Independence support. 50%+
Turnout local elections 40%. Holyrood 50% GE 60% Referendum 85%. More Independence supporters need to vote in every election. To vote out the opposition. To bring Independence sooner.
Sorry Ken but you could not be more wrong, lots of independence parties means lots of little ripples in a big pond when what Scotland needs is one huge tidal wave
That’s what England pays attention to, and what they can’t hide from, two or three wee *Peoples front of Judea* parties are very easy for England’s media to laugh at or ignore altogether
The only time Scotland needs other Scottish political parties is after we’re independent, not before we get there
In a general election Scotland is not voting for a government, that’s not in our ability to choose, the system is designed for England to choose governments, all Scotland can do is register our distaste and displeasure by voting for one Scottish party
It’s always been a con that Scotland and Wales are included in general elections, we’re not and past voting has proved that
If Wales and Scotland were in fact equal to England then we’d have proportional representation throughout the island, that’ll never happen because there would be a possibility that a political party from Scotland or even Wales could win a general election and be the UK government, there’s no way in a big flying kite in the sky that England would allow that under any circumstances whatsoever
Why do you think that England’s population has been allowed to grow to the size it is while Scotland and Wales population has been the same for the last 300 years ?
England cannot allow the slightest hint of its colonies becoming powerful
Spare a thought for the folk of Northern Ireland in this, there are no English political parties in that place, so the English conjured up the DUP and UUP to possess Northern Ireland just like they stuck their three union Tory Labour Lib Dem one party right here in Scotland, the Northern Irish have figured that out and the young people there have had enough of it and voted Sinn Fein, and we see the result Sinn Fein won now the fake England parties DUP and UUP there have had to pull another stunt to try to hold back the coming tidal wave
It’s about voting for the biggest strongest party that can keep England out of Scotland, and that’s the SNP, remember you’re not voting for a government when you vote SNP, you’re registering your opposition to England rule, the SNP can never be the UK government
Doesn’t anyone find it odd in our equal 4 nations that the system is designed so that Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland can never be allowed to govern England no matter how many MPs or representatives we elect? no matter if all three of our countries joined together as one we’d still be shut out of that wouldn’t we
The union was always a lie
Elections Indy Parties 1 & 2. Or 3. If possible. No unionist votes. GE one Independence Party. The one most likely to win. Holyrood main Independence Party 1. List Independence 2 or 3. If candidates are there. Only unionist to get out another unionist Party down the list..
Ken will the other parties merge with the snp for the greater good?
No? Thought not.🏴
Political reality I am afraid. Reminds me of the Labour Party in the 70’s / 80’s with Neil Kinnock and the parties within the party which then resulted in the formation of the social democrats from the right wing and the dissent from the left. Better ALBA and others are on they own so a light can be shone on their anti eu stance as well it seems is their main policy. Attack the snp.
They rely on ex snp members unwilling to stand for election as an ALBA candidate so convinced they are of their rights but it is a Cowardly action. They now want joint working as they see no way of gaining 1 seat in the forthcoming GE.
I think they would prefer the labour/Tory coalition to win.
Funny how the OPINIONS of politicians from the Labour party (and other parties) and too their many ACCUSATIONS that they direct at the SNP are considered by the BBC and STV as worthy of broadcasting in their political news coverage…….
I mean as OPPOSITION parties is that not their job ?…as in to try to convince voters that the SNP cannot be trusted, are incompetent and thus voters should not vote for them but INSTEAD voters should VOTE for the party that are vocalising their opinions and accusations against the SNP….by that same token opinions and accusations from opposition parties being presented as POLITICAL NEWS is NOT THE JOB of so called NEWS programme….indeed when opinions and accusations are made by opponents of the SNP….should the NEWS programme not then CHECK the validity of these opinions and accusations being made by opposition politicians against the SNP and then, as a media, REPORT on THEIR findings in an IMPARTIAL way….or even…… dare I say compare and contrast what is happening in OTHER areas of the UK….as in ones governed by both Labour and the Tories …..
What is even funnier (but NOT in an amusing way) is that the ACTUAL ACTIONS by both the Labour party and too the Tories in never considered worthy as political news that either the BBC Rep. Scotland or at times STV News feel compelled to cover in order to inform voters in Scotland as to what THEY as opposition parties have been doing and ARE doing politically (or otherwise…. as in SCANDALS linked to THEIR respective parties)…..
Is it REALLY the NEWS where YOU are…..or is it just a televised version of what we have come to expect via tabloid newspapers….which includes those papers that many years ago were once considered SERIOUS newspapers, as in broadsheets, who now also dabble GREATLY in their own versions of tabloid journalism, largely due to who OWNS their respective newspaper and thus they , as owners, impose their own particular preference of politics upon the STORIES covered and the OPINIONS and ACCUSATIONS of columnists in their papers who also clearly have many an axe to grind AGAINST the SNP (once again to try and benefit the political party that their OWNER prefers to promote and too they themselves)……
I mean you can make anything SEEM #SNPBAD depending on how selective your particular take is on a situation on anything connected to the SNP that includes omissions of facts together with the HUGE inclusion of YOUR own interpretation (biased opinion) then the result is that it may appear as if you are presenting an accurate and factual piece…..alas the overall TONE that runs throughout your paper is one that favours but ONE particular political party….surely that then gives READERS a CLUE as to your non partisan position….as in you NOT being FIT to comment on an opposition party when tis obvious that your true intention in your #SNNPBAD critique piece is 100% based on( and thus tainted) solely to try and benefit YOUR particular favoured political party and damage your least favoured party as in the SNP !
How many stories have we NOT seen covered on both the BBC and too STV that have been circulating around social media for AGES that would damage either Labour or the Tory party ( and too the current scandals to also include one involving the Lib Dems, via Emma Walker, that so far neither channel will touch)……yet we and others are witnessing a forensic and relentless propaganda war being fought against the SNP by the media…..even those former members of the SNP are welcome to join in IF they are assured to also vocalise #SNPBAD…..though they are only welcome to do that for NOW…..as in until both the BBC and STV are confident the job is done (they hope) …..THEN their, as in the former members of the SNP, participation will be no longer required…..as in they will be considered by the media , in the future, as very much surplus to requirement via their #SNPBAD input….
Let’s also not forget …when was the last time you heard either the BBC or STV broadcast any SNP achievements via policies they have delivered or planned policies in Scotland that was NOT tainted by the inclusion of “critics say” or “opposition parties say”…..or some random expert or otherwise whose own political preference for another political party is NOT noted by them the media….or whose participation in the 2014 No campaign is also NOT noted by them the media…..
NOW we have the UK government both blocking and intending to block bills passed in Holyrood YET the perspective FROM both BBC and STV is not from the Scottish government’s position or indeed from SCOTLAND’s perspective but instead it is presented via the perspective of the UK government’s position via the UK internal market or UK wide equality rules being impacted eg. the Deposit Return Scheme and GRR bill………so NOT an attack on devolution BUT instead , according to the media, we have it being presented as a THREAT to their UK ……Ha Bloody Ha……
What we have and have ALWAYS had is NO media that works on behalf of Scotland especially (but not exclusively) televised media but instead we have those EDITORS behind the scenes dictating on behalf of the UK what is to be broadcast as supposed ‘political’ news…..indeed what we are seeing is the media campaigning against independence….indeed they have not stopped doing that since 2014 (same as they did pre 2014)…..I hope more Scots can read (or hear) between the lines what is being promoted by THEIR UK media and see it for what it is….NOT working for Scotland but ALWAYS doing the work for their UK….and too the parties who support it………….
Strangely your post reminded me of a song I’d mostly forgotten.
When I first heard it it was difficult to take in Gil Scott-Heron’s rapid delivery let alone the context from a white non-US guy’s perspective, but I didn’t ‘get’ Cohen or Dylan either such was my myopia…
The song came back to haunt many years later and hit a chord – It finally clicked having already hauled ass out of the then UQ largely due to “there was no revolution because it was NOT televised” – Perhaps an anthem for BBC Scotland, or more hopefully a requiem.
Reading bits of the National it seems the main aim of ex wingers? /Albanists is to damage the SNP and whoever leads the party. Cooperation is a word used when they wish to dictate.
2% who are vociferous or is it vicious to the past leader of the snp wishes to dictate to the 45% of the electorate. The fact that the Brit nats assist them is of no consequence.
Never trust a duck that quacks if I can paraphrase! 🏴
ALBA’s whole modus operandi is to weaken the SNP vote then just like the Tories and Labour blame the SNP for Scotland not being enthusiastic about independence
Tory victory Yaay!
I wonder which Tory MP thought that plan up? well no I don’t wonder at all
ALBA are like Tory Daleks, exterminate exterminate, what was the old saying now? you have to burn the village to save the town? we’ve seen how that works
Starmer has taken the biscuit today during his “tour” of Rutherglen. That rag the Scotsman is reporting that Starmer “tells SNP and Tories not to ‘dither and delay’ over Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election”.
It’s this part that is a stonking lie:
https://archive.ph/3OY5Y
Disgusting creatures New New Labour, they know Margaret Ferrier hasn’t been in the SNP since she broke the Covid rules. They absolutely know that the Tories pulled the motion to try and protect Johnson from having to face a by election is he too ends up being suspended for breaking the rules.
If there is a byelection in Rutherglen and Hamilton I hope the SNP voters turn out in their thousands and rub this liars nose in the shite he spouts.
Nothing in that article at all from the SNP, no chance for them to rebuke the accusation made by Labour of doing a “grubby backroom deal” with the Tories. The Scotsman and Herald, lowest of the low, barrel scraping journalism and journalists.
Oops sorry Alex …I was in midst of writing about Starmer in Rutherglen before I saw your comment on it…BTW their candidate for this particular seat Michael Shanks RESIGNED from the Labour party, as an activist, in 2019 BECAUSE of Brexit…..you could not make it up….but THEY will….now THAT fact makes HIM vulnerable does it NOT !!!!…among other things connected to Labour…..in Scotland.
Plus the other FACT that other MORE popular candidates were blocked from standing in what a Labour councillor said was “LABOUR’S selection process for a candidate to stand in a potential by-election (Rutherglen)” which he branded as a “complete farce” …..and Labour activists state SIR Keir Starmer is facing a rebellion in Scotland amid a by-election “rigging row” with activists threatening not to campaign for the party via this anticipated by-election…….Concerns were raised when a long-serving local councillor, and two candidates with trade union backing, failed to make the cut while a recently rejoined member of the party did….aka Michael Shanks.
Scottish (INO) Labour deputy leader Jackie Baillie and shadow secretary of state for Scotland Ian Murray served as part of the short-listing panel, but local members have complained of a “lack of transparency” and a “lack of involvement” in the process…..as in #LabourBad….again….
The more posts the better, I liked your point about Prince Charles travelling into scotland with Covid and not a word said about it. This story by Starmer was in the Guardian last night obviously in preparation for his trip to scotland today. Get a dig in at the SNP and acuse them of backroom daels with the Tories.
Who cares if it’s blatant lies the voters will believe anything is their motto. By the way, the “Labour source” in the Scotsman article was also in the Guardian, it was Ian Murray who’s another inveterate Labour Liar.
@ Alex Clark @ 1.31pm
🙂
Hope you have a great day Alex (and others on here too)
There’s a lot of Rangers and Proddy pushing going on there, apparently we’ve all to fear the Pope ruling in Rutherglen
You’d have hoped there might have been some growing up about this stupid defenders of religion shit in Scotland, but apparently not, they still believe it works on the lesser informed
I heartily agree Alex, and sincerely hope Rutherglen and Hamilton’s electorate are awake to the scam being perpetrated in their name from all fronts under the subtitle “democracy”, and give them a bloody nose for their trouble.
The more curious aspect is the approach taken by HMS James Cook to flood their output with what is now a 4 day long propaganda diversion, the latest installment of which is “Police Scotland officers offended at chief’s racism remarks” rather than BBC Scotland’s presentation of his remarks.
– The ‘Mary McCool’ piece takes “David Threadgold” as the source of their angst, yet another Union Rep schmuck dragged into a propaganda game they cannot escape thanks to the Nick Robinson BBC School of editing.
This HMS James Cook production, sponsored by the State of a Secretary for Flounce in Scotland, was timed perfectly to miss nomination for the Raspberry Awards but guarantees another star toward James’s Knighthood..
The Labour VULTURES are circulating…Starmer is in Rutherglen today accompanied by his branch office manager……would love to see him confronted by a member of the public asking him HOW he will ‘Make Brexit work’ and WHY he wants to when Scotland voted, via a majority, AGAINST it…..
Same Scotland he is now in today….where he hopes to GAIN the seat for Labour from someone who PREVIOUSLY was in the SNP but is now an Independent MP (though news reports tonight will NOT forget to note her former SNP connection…for reasons too obvious)…but talking of the SNP they are a party within the Britain who STILL OPPOSES Brexit (together with Plaid Cymru) and in the UK Sinn Fein are also a party who STILL OPPOSE it too….alas WHO, as in ANY broadcaster, would NOT be tempted to…or rather WILL definitely be tempted to do….an editing OUT of that particular confrontation should it occur as in Starmer being exposed as THE leader of a party who promote Brexit against the majority vote in Scotland in 2016 who OPPOSED it……wish I was in Rutherglen Mall just now…I’d soon tell him, Starmer, what’s what !
Why you just cannae have a #LabourBad moment broadcast in Scotland when the sole purpose of Starmer’s visit , for Labour and too for the media, is to present and thus broadcast #LabourGood in their combined HOPE that Labour will take this seat in the anticipated (mainly by THEM) By-election…….
Of course there ARE exemptions for those who had Covid and travelled…as in the NOW King Charles, who when he was a Prince , had Covid, and travelled to Scotland…..but that is different…..NOT for the reasons they will give…but real reason being he is a Royal thus exempt from NORMAL rules that we must abide by…….during a pandemic…..and also OTHER rules outwith pandemics too…..
Starmer and Baillie (sounds like a comedy duo except not funny) must have timed this visit to coincide with the anticipated suspension of Margret Ferrier. Getting their campaign off to a good start, they think. Just few formalities to be got through first. No wonder they are fizzing. They’ll have to do this all over again in June by which time they may have holidays booked. Shame.
I think the labour party and their compliant press are actually bullies.
I do not in any shape or form understand what ferrier was doing on the day in questioned but she has been punished by the courts. It appears she is being convicted again and again but to what benefit? Ask Tory Starmer and acolytes Sarwar and Baillie. Horrible characters.
Baillie never stops lying, everything she utters about the SNP is easily proven lies.
She was choses by the Sturgeon, she who must be discredited and destroyed
So let it be written so let it be done, Sarwar 11 Pharaoh of Scotbranch office
This question from Ipsos would eliminate any shy (due to financegate) SNP as it doesn’t commit people to saying they’re going to vote that way and, well, the SNP’s goal is to stand up for Scotland…
Which party, if any, do you trust most to stand up for Scotland’s interests?
46% SNP
18% Lab
13% Con
3% Lib
2% Grn
2% Oth
9% None
7% DK
Ex none / DK:
55% SNP
21% Lab
15% Con
4% Lib
2% Grn
2% Oth
Also, keep in mind that Yousaf’s personal ratings will always be affected by the factor that everyone’s been talking about, including the chief of Police Scotland. 30% of people in the UK openly admit to racial prejudice, and we have these here. They will always dislike Yousaf and he’ll never be able to change it. So we can never compare him with Sturgeon here. Luckily, the bulk of the people who don’t like him because of his heritage / religion are not people that would ever vote SNP / indy / join the EU with free movement anyway, so it doesn’t matter.
Also, I’ve circled some examples of ‘that Yougov’ put in the context of UK polls so you can understand how to interpret it. The Ipsos would be one close to the average line by contrast. Without support from multiple oither pollsters it must be seen as, in all probability, a pile of dung.
When looking at Scottish polls, always think of this graph (wiki). It’s what our polling data would look like – in terms of the huge scatter involved – if we had the same number of polls being done here. It’s absolutely possible for us to get 5 polls in a row showing the SNP on 37% when they are actually on 45%. A combo of method and variance.
UK-wide polling has the SNP on about 43% of the Scottish share of the electorate incidentally. Been rising recently.