A new era in Scottish politics

After a bruising leadership contest Humza Yousaf has won the SNP leadership contest. He took slightly less than 50% of first preference votes, and was taken over the line by second preference votes. Kate Forbes was some way behind on first preference votes while Ash Regan was a long way distant and dropped out after the first round of counting. His election represents the historic moment that a member of an ethnic minority becomes the First Minister of Scotland. Humza Yousaf was depicted as the ‘continuity candidate’ and his main task will be to demonstrate that he is his own man and to put his own stamp on the job and on the SNP, that task will be made easier by the recent resignation of the SNP chief executive Peter Murrell. His accession to the top job in Scottish politics is made easier by the support he got from many elected SNP politicians and the fact that out of all the candidates he was the one who was most likely to ensure the continuation of the deal between the SNP and the Greens.

However Kate Forbes gave him a very close run and it will be important for the new leader to ensure that both she and Ash Regan are offered important posts in his new government. That is vital in order to begin to heal the divisions within the SNP and the wider independence movement. The first preference votes were as follows :

Humza Yousaf: 24336 (48.2%)
Kate Forbes: 20559 (40.7%)
Ash Regan: 5599 (11.1%)

The second round of voting went as follows:
Yousaf: 26032 (51.6% / 52.1%)
Forbes: 23890 (47.3% / 47.9%)
Didn’t Transfer: 572 (1.1%)

Humza Yousaf picked up 1696 second preference votes, Kate Forbes won 3331, second preference votes from those who backed Ash Regan in the first round broke heavily in favour of Kate Forbes, but not by a big enough margin to take her over the line. Humza needs to avoid the mistake made by Liz Truss, who won the Conservative leadership by a narrow margin and then set about rewarding her own supporters and excluding and marginalising those who had backed her opponent Rishi Sunak. In the interests of party unity both Kate Forbes and Ash Regan and their supporters need to be offered prominent positions in the new administration. However it is clear that the social media warriors whose support for Ash Regan was vituperative and bilious enjoy relatively little backing amongst the membership of the SNP, and undoubtedly even less amongst the wider population, although it is important to stress that the candidates themselves are not responsible for the bile and bitterness of those whose aim is to make toxic social media even more toxic that it already is.

A UK General Election is in the offing, it is critical that the new leader engages with that wider movement and restarts the grassroots independence campaign. He will need to reach out to his critics within that wider movement and to demonstrate that ‘continuity candidate’ does not mean stasis and stagnation and more kicking the can down the road. There is going to be a UK General Election, most likely sometime next year, and the SNP is going to need a better pitch to the public than asking nicely yet again for a Section 30 order for a referendum.

There is considerable suspicion about Humza Yousaf amongst some of those who left the SNP during Nicola Sturgeon’s time at the helm, some of whom are already touting their conspiracy theories. However hopefully the more reasonable amongst them will be willing to give him a chance to prove that he is his own man and that he is not merely a creature of the previous leadership. He must seize the opportunity presented by Nicola Sturgeon’s resignation and stake out a new course for the party with independence firmly in its sights. Continuing the bitterness and divisions of the past few years will only benefit the British nationalists. He can do that by centring independence in his administration and by building arguments for independence that can reach across party divides. One possible route to that lies in developing a replacement for the discredited GERS figure which provide British nationalists with an annual carnival of too wee too poor.

On the plus side Humza Yousaf’s election avoids accusations that the SNP is moving to the right, he promises to continue the progressive politics of social justice which appeal to younger voters who are overwhelmingly more likely to support independence. He is also the leader who is most likely to ensure the continuation of the Bute House agreement with the Scottish Greens which guarantees a pro-independence majority government at Holyrood. His election means that the new leadership will not immediately come into conflict with certain elected SNP politicians who, perhaps unwisely, had spoken out in strong terms against one of the other candidates. We have avoided the potential for a damaging split in the SNP and for an unstable minority government at the mercy of Conservative mischief making.

Humza is also the only leadership candidate who had promised to take legal action to challenge Alister Jack’s unprecedented use of a Section 35 order to veto legislation passed by Holyrood. No matter what your views on the Gender Recognition Reform bill are, Jack’s use of a unilateral veto to stop it from passing into law is a dangerously anti-democratic step which threatens the very basis of the devolution settlement and which must be challenged as vigorously as possible to make sure the Tories don’t think that they can easily take such a step with future Scottish legislation that they disapprove of. If theTories are allowed to get away with this without a fight, they will certainly do it again and Scotland’s Parliament will find itself effectively neutered, able only to pass legislation that meets with the approval of a Conservative party that has not won an election in Scotland since 1955.

It is also important to recognise that we now have a pro-independence First Minister who is a Scot of Asian heritage. That is something to celebrate as it helps to prove that the campaign for Scottish independence is inclusive and outward looking and is not motivated by the regressive politics of ethnic nationalism, an accusation often hurled at Scottish independence supporters by those who themselves rail against immigration and who demonise asylum seekers and refugees.

We are in a new era now. All of us who support independence, no matter which candidate we preferred, must give Humza Yousaf the benefit of the doubt and allow him the space to put his own stamp on the highest office in Scottish politics.




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415 comments on “A new era in Scottish politics

  1. Alex Clark says:

    I agree that Humza Yousaf must now be given the opportunity to show where he intends to take the SNP and the direction of the Scottish Government now that he has been elected leader.

    There have to be losers in every competition and I’m sure Kate Forbes will have her chance again but I too hope she remains in government and both her and Yousaf can put aside their differences and start to work together.

    Of course, many will be disappointed but that would have been the case no matter who won this contest, what we need now is to avoid making the UK government the ultimate winner by failing to get behind the new Leader of the SNP and Scotland’s First Minister.

    That’s what I’ll be doing as I have no intention of delighting those that wish to see us fail.

    • Joe Adie. says:

      Totally agree
      Independence next stop

    • GGP says:

      I agree, and I took the view that Independence is greater than a single person and was willing to support the new as he takes us onto the road to Independence. I was quite shocked of course when he all but cast Kate Forbes aside by a paltry offer of Minister of Rural Affairs, losing her to the back-benches is not a good look for him or the party……in the light of this I await to see what he shall offer Ash Regan, perhaps a position in the Ministers staff canteen? Both those strong women deserved positions of merit, I hope HY is not now going to surround himself with a group of sycophants.

  2. Old Pete says:

    Voted for Kate, will always vote SNP but my membership will lapse in October.

    • Dr Jim says:

      After over 50 years my membership of the SNP is finished
      I joined a political party that would work towards the independence of my country, I did not join a party that would allow itself to become embroiled and blackmailed by another party claiming to be about Green issues who now claim to be the LGBGT support us or we withdraw party
      No matter anyone’s tastes persuasions religions or sexuality, political parties are for all and anyone, and none of the candidates at any time said they would “throw LGBGT people under the bus” this is a lie and it was perpetrated by the Greens using the media to help their case which has ended up achieving the UKs favoured FM

      I have nothing whatsoever against Humza Yousaf and I’m sure he’ll go through all the motions of appearing to do the job of FM adequately but he is not the peoples choice, and since 20 thousand SNP couldn’t even be bothered voting, they either didn’t care or didn’t like any of the candidates

      Badly done badly handled and a shoddy outcome that only suits England, oh and of course the new LGBGT Green party who got their puppet, person, man

      Thousands will do the same

      • ayeinskye says:

        Or maybe membership numbers given were still wrong?who knows the truth, I see Police Scotland have handed their dossier into the COPFS now,

        • Tam the Bam says:

          Just when you think things couldnt get any worse… up pops a wee Alba vulture..scanning to see what morsels he can scavenge.

          • ayeinskye says:

            Can you honestly see 20k members not voting, that was the point I was trying to make, Peter Murrell screwed the pouch with this, when he essentially threw Foote under the bus, and going to say one thing, do you think we are gloating re the mess that is happening, I was a member since I was 14, this isn’t doing the Indy movement any good if you ask me, it’s an unnecessary mess, as for the dossier, it will finally put the £600k ringfenced money theories to bed once and for all, whether there was fraud commuted or not, there will finally be an answer

            • Tam the Bam says:

              Would you like to repeat that Calum (like your last post?)..:-) …only joking.Like you I voted for Kate but I’m interested about your comment re Blackford. You say you know him…has he just followed the HQ directive of ‘vote Humza?’…..I’d be interested on your take.

      • Calum says:

        Agree with this entirely. Although a lapsed member,I have voted SNP at every election since the 70s .
        Unless the election next year is a plebiscite one (which it won’t be) I will vote Alba, if they have a candidate , or if not, abstain.
        I will vote SNP at Holyrood, assuming Kate stands, but I’m disgusted by Ian Blackford’s support for Humza. I used to know him well but he’s nothing but a bag of hot air.
        Sad to see how the SNP has been taken over by so called progressives. There is nothing more progressive for Scotland than independence.
        I heard supporters of the 3 candidates being interviewed recently.The one supporting Humza, when pressed , said she wouldn’t support the others if they won and would put progressiveness before independence if she had to choose , Too many like her in the SNP

        • Tam the Bam says:

          Would you like to repeat that Calum (like your last post?)..:-) …only joking.Like you I voted for Kate but I’m interested about your comment re Blackford. You say you know him…has he just followed the HQ directive of ‘vote Humza?’…..I’d be interested on your take.

          • Calum says:

            Will try not to repeat this one !
            It’s at least a couple of years since I ve spoken to him. However I don’t think he’s just following HQ as he didn’t support Kate when she stood for the candidacy in the constituency. I was a member then and voted for her as she impressed me. I had asked him what he thought and he said she was too young in his opinion. A bit ironic considering he later appointed Mairi Black in Westminster who was even younger.
            He supports independence but in my opinion he likes Westminster too much. I’ll just leave it at that.

            • Eilidh says:

              Are you actually saying all the Mps and Msps who supported Humza were bullied by Snp HQ to do so. What planet are you on.They and the members who supported him can’t have free will – seriously

              • Tam the Bam says:

                Eilidh…… I’ve read your previous posts and understand your state of consternation (I am as well) ….the sad truth is…politics is a dirty game…I thought my party was not sin free…but better than most.
                Tonight … I dont know what to think.

            • Tam the Bam says:

              My goodness…thats a real eye-opener Calum. No harm to the guy but I have to say I used to ‘hide behind the couch most PM’s when Ian took to the floor…I didnt like the way he grasped his waistcoat in an almost ‘churchillian manner’……that really boiled my piss

        • ayeinskye says:

          Blackford was probably the main reason I left the SNP back in 2018 Calum, after speaking to him in Portree one night, I won’t say what it was about, that’s between me and him, I doubt he remembers but I certainly do, and I wouldn’t trust the man to run a bath now, saddened that Kate lost today, she was the best candidate in my opinion, to unite the movement and pick up soft no’s, but I can’t understand people who gave Ash their first vote, giving Humza their second, it just doesn’t compute. As for voting SNP in future elections, I don’t know if I can, even if it’s for Kate in the constituency, and Alba or ISP 2nd depending on who stands, but I won’t be voting for IB, that is for sure, it will just be a spoilt vote from me unless Andy Wightman runs as an independent. He was the only Green I felt had environmental issues at heart .
          Onwards and upwards as they say and hopefully we will see an independence referendum soon, it is needed, I know Nicola said the Yes campaign had time on its side due to No voters dying off(not in those words) but far too many yes voters have also died and will continue to die (my own father one of them last year), time isn’t on their side

          • Tam the Bam says:

            Your name isnt Calum.

            • ayeinskye says:

              Wasn’t replying to you so give it a break Tam, thatmuch was obvious from my first sentence where it says CALUM

              • Tam the Bam says:

                An alba member doesnt get to tell me to ‘give it a break’……..beat it and knock on someone else’s door.

          • Calum says:

            Hope you are right re the referendum but I can’t see it coming anytime soon. They can ask for a Section 30 all they like but it won’t be given and, sadly, the SNP must know that.
            I feel almost as bad as I did in 2014.

            • Tam the Bam says:

              Its why I voted for Kate. Look…we all know the opinion polls have flirted between 45/56% in favour of Indy (the MSM will always quote the latest poll ….but we know the score) .Here are some hard facts.
              1) The FM is the First Minister for ALL of Scotland (not just those in favour of indy).
              2) Currently….the AYE/NO split is pretty much the same…50/50….some time up…some time down.
              3) Despite the efforts of some to go down the ‘historic’ route (Salvo etc.,) however historically correct and approved by Alf Baird (Albert Memmi says………………….)
              ……Guys!!! It aint gonna cut it with the Scottish electorate!……Alba’s new buzzword courtesy of Kate Forbes.

      • I have to say that my sympathies are with your opinion regarding the SNP.

        I first joined the party and a plooky teenager in 1968, my membership dues are taken by direct debit every month, I get inundated with correspondence regarding raffles and the like but I’ve never had any notification to vote for anything never mind the elction of leader.

        I joined the SNP with one single requirement – independence for my country. Everything else, whilst important, was and is secondary. I fear, at my age, that my lifelong hope will go unfulfilled. I am certainly not expectant of any change in the direction of my party any time soon.

        I have, today, written to the SNP in these regards and asking why I should remain a member. Wonder if I’ll get a reply?

    • Isobel Macrae-Wilson says:

      yeah Pete, me too, been pro independence since my twenties, 40 plus years ago. Still as avowed an indy seeker as ever, but my membership lapses in June, and I will happily join the cohort of non affiliated indy folks like yourself, Paul K, Leslie R, and the fabulous Ruth Wishart (amongst others too nameless to mention)

  3. Joe Adie. says:

    Its onwards and upwards now.lets get behind our new leader.
    Stop this stupid squabbling.doing that you are only giving
    The Britnat unionists ammunition to fire back at us.lets stop
    That.we are one family.and the prize is to move forward towards
    Making our proud Scotland.a very prosperous independent
    Country.trading with countries throughout the world.and a country
    We can all be proud of.away from the shackles for ever from that totally
    Discredited disgraceful so called union.(. I could use stronger
    Words but will not.)
    Let’s all be as one.(.INDEPENDENCE NEXT STOP.)
    and the sooner the better.

    • Golfnut says:

      Well I’m almost with Old Pete on this, however one topic almost buried was the special conference, nonsensically cancelled and without doubt the first thing the new party leader has to put in the diary, sooner than later. If he is serious about engaging with the Yes movement, I suggest he gets finger out PDQ.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      This is the calibre of Humza’s spads.
      ……I know its Spring but feels like Winter to me.

  4. endrickwater says:

    As an independence supporter and in favour of a very broad Kirk in the SNP, I’m concerned about the charge that Yousaf was hoping to progress a “blasphemy” law within other legislation. Also that he ruled out appointing any of the other candidates to the Scottish government cabinet? Has all this fallen by the board — or was it all hot air to begin with? Honest questions here.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Can you provide a link to where I can read about the claims you make?

      • endrickwater says:

        In the Guardian on 22 Feb, Humza Yousaf said “ Humza Yousaf, suggested her [Forbes’] views might not fit his “progressive vision” and prominent activists called for her to withdraw from the race.” Although later in the piece he is quoted as saying he’s like her in the cabinet, so mixed messages there. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/22/criticism-of-kate-forbes-is-about-her-suitability-to-lead-says-senior-snp-figure) I also understand that she’s totally accepted the result, which is exactly what I would have expected of her. (I realise the piece was written by Libby Brooks, and I don’t like much of the coverage of Scotland in the Guardian, but I was trying to read across lots of platforms.

        The National covered the Hate Crime Bill Extensively, but commentary was mostly concerned with women’s issues of violence and rights (understandably) that allowed the “religion” aspect of it get rather lost. https://www.thenational.scot/news/19154737.hate-crime-bill-controversial-bill-passes-holyrood-82-votes-32/ We’ll see how strong the safeguards are in due course.

        • Alex Clark says:

          Thanks for trying but these links are not very helpful.

          “I’m concerned about the charge that Yousaf was hoping to progress a “blasphemy” law”

          There is no mention at all to “blasphemy” in the link to the 2 year old National article you provided? Who was it that made this “charge” against Yousaf and on what platform did they make it?

          “he ruled out appointing any of the other candidates to the Scottish government cabinet?”

          The link you provided to the Libby Brooks article in the Guardian says the opposite of what you claimed. I’d like to see the evidence that he has ruled out having any of the other candidates in his cabinet?

          Yousaf – a practising Muslim who has said “I don’t legislate on the basis of my faith”, said on Monday that he would like Forbes to be a part of his cabinet should he become first minister.

          • endrickwater says:

            The Brooks article shows a mixed message coming from Yousaf during the contest: on the one hand not being sure Forbes would fit into a progressive cabinet and on the other saying he’d like her in the cabinet. He’d be foolish not to have her: she’s very able. I also think that Forbes, had she been elected, would not have rolled back legislation that conflicted with her beliefs have read (because she pledged she would not) and I’m glad that Yousaf says he will not be legislating on the basis of his faith. Just as Blackford was censured for voting for progressive legislation by the Free Church, I hope that Yousaf will not find himself in an equally uncomfortable position. I also hope he will be a successful FM.

            • keaton says:

              So did you just make up the bit about “the charge that Yousaf was hoping to progress a blasphemy law”?

              • endrickwater says:

                No, Keaton, I really didn’t. And I was asking a real question, not looking for trouble. There are those I have spoken to Glasgow — all SNP supporters and members — who are really worried that bundling in “religion” as part of the list of areas covered by the Hate Crime bill might have unintended consequences. They described it as a “modern day blasphemy law”. It might just be a conspiracy theory; they might be over thinking it — if so, I’d be glad to be reassured.

                • Capella says:

                  I suspect the confusion has arisen because the Hate Crime Bill was originally billed as necessary to repeal an ancient blasphemy law that hadn’t been used for two hundred years. We were rather sceptical that this was an urgent matter. But in any case, they went ahead with outlawing hate crimes (unless you are a woman in which case it is perfectly normal). One clause would make it a hate crime to say unkind things in the privacy of your own living room. Not sure whether that is still the case.
                  Humza Yousaf was Justice minister responsible.

                  • endrickwater says:

                    Thank you. That might be the problem. I know that legislation goes through a lot of phases and amendments, which can change the original provisions.

        • Tam the Bam says:

          Whats your favourite stretch?
          I used to love fishing Cowden Mill Dam @ night for sea-trout.
          Circa ’85-90

  5. Alistair Swanson says:

    There is no democracy in this at all. I am under the impression the the Scots are sovereign, and we have no say on this!

    • Alex Clark says:

      SNP members had their say and it was the SNP party leader they were electing. Why should anyone else have a say other than members of the party?

      • Geri says:

        Because they’re not just electing a new party leader but a FM.

        There should be an immediate election. The vote was far to dodgy to command public confidence.
        The seven rebels could force that election & then it’s SNP.
        Ash had indy on the table. They all voted against it. The MPs & MSPs fell over themselves to row back on indy with nonsense of 2050 & backing off indy.
        A third of the country do not want self-ID either & didn’t vote Greens.

        SNP are finished today.
        They’re completely unelectable.

    • scottish_skier says:

      Yousaf is not the FM. He now needs to be elected by the parliament, where his party has no majority. He will have opponents standing against him.

      Also, the FM has no executive powers. They can make no laws themselves. They are simply the leader of the parliament, elected by it to speak for it. This is why they don’t need to be directly elected like president.

      • Old Pete says:

        The Greens have said they will support him as first minister, so it’s a shoo-in after all.

        • scottish_skier says:

          Yes, so he will in all probability be democratically elected by the parliament to lead it as FM. But to do that, he will need to have the support of the Greens, and also those MSPs that backed Forbes. He will also need to keep the support of all these to keep himself as FM. So camp Forbes will find themselves getting stuff they wanted. If, that is, a Yousaf FM is to stay in the job for any length of time!

          • Tam the Bam says:

            You must be grinning from ear-to-ear.

            • scottish_skier says:

              Please feel free to look back, find and link to all the posts I made promoting Yousaf and encouraging people to vote for him. You’ll have your work cut out.

              I had no real preference, but hey, don’t let the truth get in the way of a good personal attack! 🙂

              • Capella says:

                You said several times that you preferred Yousaf and also that you thought Yousaf 1st and Forbes 2nd. You told us you had voted for Yousaf. That is what a preference is. You then told us that Mrs S-S had voted Yousaf.

                a greater liking for one alternative over another or others.

                • scottish_skier says:

                  Feel free to link back to me trying to tell / encourage people how to vote or campaigning for a particular candidate. Saying what I have may or may not personally done does not constitute this; it’s a simple statement of something. What my wife voted is even less so!

                  I’ve said many times I have had no real preferred candidate, and that I voted for Yousaf mainly because I felt Forbes had the edge and I wanted it even if it was not going to be a total landslide for one. Certainly Forbes seemed to be way out in front for posters here. I can’t recall anyone backing Yousaf? There are multiple instances off me saying I didn’t really have a major preference, and I aimed to be as neutral as possible on polling data.

                  I personally would like to see Forbes as DFM. I did say in the past I felt that she needed maybe a stint at this to mature. But then Yousaf doesn’t have her force of presence etc etc. Each have different qualities that could compliment each other.

                  • Capella says:

                    I cant be bothered. You have a preference which you stated several times. Why you can’t accept that is a mystery.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      So ……………. pea-shooters at dawn is it?

    • Pogmothon says:


  6. Handandshrimp says:

    The majority of the bile came from people who had no vote in this contest.

    You cannot flounce out of a party and then expect to have influence in that party. Hell mend them.

    I voted for Kate but I will give Humza space to do his thing. I may yet be pleasantly surprised. His acceptance speech hit the right notes and he is undoubtedly articulate and personable. Let’s see.

    The next election will likely be 18 months from now and for Holyrood it will be three years. There is time to build.

  7. grizebard says:

    A good summary by Paul (as usual), and though the outcome was not my personal preference, that’s democracy for you, so we should graciously wish the winner well and rally behind him in our common struggle for sovereignty. We’ve had more than enough cranky divisiveness of late to last a lifetime, and largely about what in the end are secondary matters. There’s an election coming up soon enough, and the crucial task then is to demonstrate conclusively to friend and foe alike that as a nation we’re not going to backslide into hopelessness and Labour isn’t – as it clearly desperately hopes – going to save the Union for England.

  8. yesindyref2 says:

    There were only two winners today. The Precious Union and the Greens. Even Devolution lost.

    Independence which I’ve supported since 1974, is dead in my lifetime.

    Time to get another interest.

    • Old Pete says:

      Sad to say but I totally agree with you. Can’t see Scottish Independence before I die, how disappointing 😢 so near and now so far.

    • Old Pete says:

      I totally agree with you, so near but so far. I note than likely won’t see Independence in my lifetime. Very, very disappointed.

  9. Capella says:

    I see no point in continuing as a member of the SNP. I’ve clung on by the fingertips for four years now but enough is enough. Also, having seen the front page of The National I will be cancelling my subscription to that too. If Id wanted to join the Greens I would have done so. But I don’t.

    I will vote for independence if there is an opportunity to vote but I don’t expect one any time soon.

    • raineach says:

      I remain in the party. If Humza is as bad as you say there will be another election and a 2nd shot at this. We can ask if the reason he won is that so many members who would have voted differently had left

    • ulsterScots says:

      I feel the same as you Im now leaving the party I’ve been a member of since 1996. This was the last chance to rescue the Party but all hope is gone along with Independence

  10. Alan L says:

    Humza Yousaf had the advantage that if many of the 30,000 who left the the party did so because they were unhappy with the way the party had been going under Nicola Sturgeon (rather than for economic reasons) and would like a fresh face they were unable to rejoin and vote.

    Even so, and with the advantages of backing from “HQ” etc,the artificially short campaign period and being forewarned of NS resignation he scraped in on second preferences and the point about having an inclusive cabinet is well made.

    A longer campaign might have led to more unforgettable gaffes like “where are all the men “

  11. scottish_skier says:

    Any political party is better off without members who don’t wish to be a part of it, support and campaign for it. These leaving only helps it.

  12. grizebard says:

    Let’s face it, in a close contest, whichever of the two main contenders won was always going to leave the near-half of supporters of the other one feeling disappointed. And having to be grown-up about it and “just get over it”.

    Maybe others felt like me that there needed to be a significant change of direction and a re-invigorated approach, so a “continuity” candidate with added dependence on ultra-radical (in anything but environmental matters) Greens wasn’t the most convincing response to the pressing needs of the now. But we are where we are, and we have to give the winner his due, the space to show what he is capable of, and the support he deserves to do it well.

    In the end, his fight is our fight.

  13. Tam the Bam says:

    Well … here we are…although WHERE we are I’m not quite sure.
    I am sure about one thing however. The 52/48 split in the vote is..I believe..a generational split.Its not quite as simple as that would suggest and I appreciate that.
    However I think for the mainpart ..my opinion is correct.
    How do I feel about our new Leader & FM ?…..’unenthused’ I suppose.
    I absolutely get how Capella,Dr Jim.Jack Collatin and others are feeling right now.I feel the same. I am retaining my membership for reasons that you know.
    Incidentally… Scottish Skier.. I seldom make reference to James Kelly’s blog but for once I have to agree with a habitual btl commenter there…..
    ” You’re a snake.”

    • scottish_skier says:

      Personal insults are like water off a duck’s back to me Tam. Although it does seem the IFS’s are out and about tonight, what with me being a ‘snake’ and ‘independence dead’ because SNP voters made a democratic choice.

      The vote was right down the middle as all the evidence suggested. Maybe it was partly generational – will look at that. However, if someone likes Forbes, the SNP is a great match for them. Unless people know of another party which is half pro-Forbes? 🙂

      What I said above is true in response to people talking about walking away. If someone doesn’t want to support a party in it’s activities / doesn’t want to help it promote it’s cause, then the party is better off without them. This is simple fact. Certainly, change can only come from within. In an independent Scotland we’ll have governments we didn’t vote for. I certainly won’t be giving up on indy if that happens! Which is an equivalent case. Until recently, less than half of Scots supported my choice, but I’ve accepted that and kept campaigning for what I believed in: independence.

      I personally have never seen the SNP as its leader. I wasn’t a huge fan of Salmond, but that didn’t stop me voting for them. I’ve never voted SNP because of Sturgeon. I didn’t really have a preference of the top two here, and will keep voting SNP as long as I think they best match my politics. So now I will wait to see how things go with Yousaf just as I would have with Forbes.

      • grizebard says:

        “Unless people know of another party which is half pro-Forbes?” Well, quite.

        Though the danger is quite forgotten, not least on the Union side, by politicians and their media mouthpieces alike, that a total absence of democratically-led solutions to legitimate concerns doesn’t merely embarrass the occasional moderate SNP politician, the ensuing festering disaffections may eventually cause others to seek alternative means of filling the offensive vacuum.

      • Tam the Bam says:

        You can deflect till the cows come home.
        The fact remains you did (in as many words) say to Capella,Jack,Dr Jim and others “piss off…we’re better off without you.”
        That makes you a snake in my book.

        • Tam the Bam says:

          *for SS

        • Eilidh says:

          Please give the time reference of where Skier said that Tam. I have seen no comment where he said that What he implied was that if people don’t want to be in a party or campaign for it they should leave. That is a valid point. Last week umpteen people on here were saying they would unite behind whoever is elected and now at least several posters on here all of whom I greatly respect are saying because Kate didn’t win they are going to leave the Snp. What good will that do it certainly won’t help the possibility of Independence for sure I understand they are very disappointed but can everyone just take a deep breath calm down a wee bit and at least give Humza a chance. As I have said here countless times I wouldn’t have voted for any of the three of them and my brother who had a vote didn’t vote. Please don’t let disappointment win because that will not serve the cause of Indy and the bloody unionists will win. One thing is for sure democracy is a bitch when whoever you support doesn’t win. I thought Kate would probably win by a narrow majority but I am not entirely surprised she didn’t and I don’t think the Snp hierarchy fixed the vote nor greatly influenced the members to vote for Humza either

      • Golfnut says:

        We can angst over demographics all day long but somebody senior needs to be tasked with finding out why 20,000+ members didn’t vote, because that just might be a real lurking problem.

        • Eilidh says:

          True. I can only tell you why my brother didn’t vote basically he didn’t like any of the candidates. I also think possibly some would not vote for any candidate that was not Nicola Sturgeon – just saying

        • Tam the Bam says:

          Lurking? ………..oh my aching sides Golfnut……20 fekin thousand couldnt be arsed to vote?…..with all this publicity?………really?

        • scottish_skier says:

          They were maybe like me and genuinely had no preferred candidate. While I didn’t want Regan, from the outset it was obvious she had a cat’s chance in hell, so I could not have bothered myself. I saw positives in both Yousaf and Forbes. However, I feel I should always vote, and so I did. I tried to balance the outcome by voting for the one I thought would come second of the top two; something I said on here I’d try to do.

          Also, the SNP is huge, and many people join just to fund / support an indy party. They might be happy enough with that, and not really bother beyond just paying subs. So 20% not voting doesn’t say something is obviously wrong.

          If something is, it would be bad news for all three candidates. I don’t think that’s the case. I’d need to see evidence for this before I was concerned.

  14. Dr Jim says:

    My withdrawing my membership has nothing to do with independence, I will continue to vote SNP at every opportunity in the hope of independence, but also to prevent English political parties totally ruling Scotland
    I just will not support the SNP financially anymore, as Capella says “If I’d wanted to join the Green party I would have” but I don’t and I will not support the SNP in appeasement of their blackmailing tactics, right through this leadership campaign Humza Yousaf did when he refused to correct the lies about both Kate Forbes and Ash Regan about LGBGT people, that is not how a family behaves

    When I joined the SNP it was a family striving to overcome the constraints of English rule and trying to convince Scotland we’d be far better off not a part of England’s dictatorship pretend union
    For Scotland is not in a union, the English Supreme court made that judgement when it refused to recognise the right of Scotland’s parliament to ask the people who elected them a question
    It matters not that the question was that of independence, what matters is the English parliament’s court made clear to Scotland they could if they so wished prevent the asking of any question by the elected government and representatives of Scotland

    We are told we are a union of four countries one minute then a single country the next depending on whatever the English government decides Scotland is useful for, like the Brexit referendum where Scotland’s vote was discounted because we were not a country that day but a region or territory of England’s country union dictatorship
    My belief was that Kate Forbes was the best candidate to prosecute that argument
    Humza’s behaviour over the Green issue leads me to believe this is a man who was prepared to say anything and to ignore anything in order to get himself elected
    That is not the SNP I joined
    Just because the SNP won’t have my financial support in the future does not mean I would ever consider in my wildest moments ever voting for an English British bunch of charlatans to do to my country what they do to their own

    Whenever Scotland disagrees with England we cease to become a country

    That has to stop and we have to stop it

  15. dakk says:

    Tbh I doubt Kate would have been able to convert many of the old bigoted unionists. Nobody could.

    Humza is a progressive so he resonates with the young and they are the future.

    It’s probably for the best regards indy.I think.

  16. dakk says:

    I didn’t have a vote but thought all 3 candidates were good in their own way from the one hustings I managed to see.

    • Izzie says:

      Very disappointed and am in agreement with Dr Jim I will always support the cause but I think my Party has left me. I will let my membership lapse for the moment.

      • dakk says:

        Entirely appropriate. The cause is bigger than any one person or party.

        • Tam the Bam says:

          You think an SNP member feeling she has to let her membership lapse because of today is “entirely appropriate?”

  17. Clachangowk says:

    It seems I live in a different world to most of the commentators here.
    The challenge that most of us, apart from the 5% of rentiers and financiers and those who support them, have is to find another radical way forward. I argue that the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon have been successful in showing the way with her Wellbeing actions where payments made without means-testing ( eg child support payment, free university education , free bus passes for under 24 and elderly etc etc). This all in stark contrast to the Westminster neo-liberal free market ideology with its attack on the poor and privatising wherever possible.
    Could more have been done ? Sure, maybe, but we always say that.
    Humza Yousaf promises to continue this Wellbeing approach and that is the main reason I voted for him; I was a bit concerned about Kate Forbes as an ex Banker having the top job.
    Finally Yousaf gets criticised as a failure as the Health Secretary; The toughest job in Government but the Scottish Health service doing a lot better than the privatising one down in England. Who could have done better.
    So I am more optimistic than most others seem to be.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Are you really.
      Radical improvements in the Scottish economy are only achievable with full fiscal autonomy. You should know that.

  18. yesindyref2 says:

    There is one last thing to say though. I was a bit wary for Forbes with a new baby becoming FM, so now that’s not a problem and good luck to them all.

    It’s the only up side I can see. Yousaf will go with the wind, whichever way it blows. The Greens will have him for breakfast. Pass the toast, oh Yousaf, that’s you.

  19. Bob Lamont says:

    Well I’m absolutely fizzing that I’m not and never have been a member of any political party, so missing out on the flouncing over the new SNP leader before he’s even in the job a full day…. 🙄

    • ulsterScots says:

      I’ve been holding on (i had to hold my nose to vote SNP in the last couple of elections) in the hope we could have a competent uncorrupt leader that has not happened and that is why you will see many more of us leaving

      • Golfnut says:

        What incompetence ? what corruption ?. Albanists and unionists use those terms. So to what incompetence and corruption do you refer?

        • ulsterScots says:

          The Highest drug deaths in Europe, the NHS performing worse than in Northern Ireland and they don’t have a functioning government, the Education system plummeting down the worlds rankings that is incompetence and the oncoming police investigation for fraud is the corruprtion

          • Hamish100 says:

            Ullster scotch
            Just admit you are a wee britnat just arrived on the scene.

            You are talking rubbish over the Health service.

            I have inside knowledge of healthcare systems and NI is one of the worst. Scotland out performs despite all the difficulties. We don’t even have NI benefit of being part EU. Away and beat your drum.

            If you look at the terrible drug deaths you will see that the age profile is mainly in the 40’and 50’s age bracket. Years of abuse takes their toll on the body and mind. The problem is of long standing just is alcoholism.

            Of course you don’t really care about all this. Just another Brit Nat with no imagination or conscience.

            • ulsterScots says:

              I’ve been a member of the party since 1995 (not for much longer though) so funny Brit nat, Being called that means I have touched a nerve with folk like you who are fully paid up members of the cult of Nicola.
              I live and work in Northern Ireland as well as visiting my sister who is a nurse in the NHS, my work deals with both the Scottish NHS and the Northern Irish so I have seen both systems first hand and the Scottish one is worse.
              There is no benefit from being shackled to the EU, as I said I work in the Supply chain and because of us over here being handed over to the EU we have increased costs of on average 20% for items as well as the lead time increasing from 2 days to 2 weeks from the mainland

              • Hamish100 says:

                Ireland is the mainland, britnat.

                NHS DUP style is worse. Still have a nice July.

                • ulsterScots says:

                  The Mainland of the UK is Britain and Ireland and Northern Ireland is two separate entities.
                  The Health minister was UUP and the Shinners before that so not only do you not have a clue about geography you don’t know hee haw about Northern Irish politics

                  go and cry into your pillow because your cult leader is gone

    • Eilidh says:

      Well I have only been in the Snp for 9 days and now at least several regular posters on here are saying they are leaving the party. I am beginning to wonder was it something I said or did 😥

      • ulsterScots says:

        Nothing to do with you its the state of the hierachy in the party.Good luck in your membership but its so far removed from the party I joined in 1995 and I can no longer remain a member of it. Nothing to do with Independence I will support that until the day I die

      • Bob Lamont says:

        It’s the silent fart… 😉

        • Bob Lamont says:

          That was supposed to be a response to Eilidh, yet seems entirely appropriate given the prior remark..

      • Alan D says:

        Don’t worry about it. Turnover in party membership is necessary to keep them relevant. It’s just happening on an overwhelming scale in the SNP’s case, with more people leaving and joining annually than it historically used to have in total.

  20. lilou57 says:

    “Humza needs to demonstrate he is his own man’. That seems doubtful when he has already said he hopes to have Nicola Sturgeon on speed dial.

    He needs to set out a new direction for independence . What like asking for a section 30 as soon as possible,? Oh, sorry Sunak has already vetoed that one before he’s even asked. What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?

    He’ll fight sec 35 in the courts and in the UK Supreme Court at that, because apparently its important not to allow the Tories to roll back devolution . Except of course section 35 IS PART of the devolution agreement and always has been. Not like it’s something newly thought of, even if it hasn’t been used before.
    Devolution is power retained. The only way to counter that is with independence . There are plenty of other bills introduced by the Tories that have impacted on our devolved powers (the internal Market Bill for one) and apart from some whingeing at the time, the Scottish Gov did nothing.

    His predecessor wasted plenty of OUR money on failed court cases – seems he wants to follow suit. so far I see nothing that tells me is is anything other than the same old same old continuity candidate. The only question left is how long for?

  21. Eilidh says:

    How many court cases?. I only know of the Supreme Court one on the Scottish Parliaments right to hold an Indeoendence referendum

    • lilou57 says:

      Took the Alex Salmond case to court (in Scotland) when they were warned they would lose. Cost us £512,000.

      • Eilidh says:

        Whatever! He was charged by the police of a criminal offences and thankfully found not guilty

        • Eilidh says:

          And I agree with you re the case about Scottish Government complaints policy which I had forgotten about that was an utter muckup

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Where have you been Eilidh?
      Boris Johnson attempted to ‘prorogue’parliament (westminster) …for ulterior motives.
      Johanna Cherry KC put at a stop to that in the Supreme(UK) Court.
      Joanna is a contentious / marmite figure apparently.
      Not for me….she is capable and authoritative.Everything the SNP requires at this time.

      • Eilidh says:

        Joanna Cherry did not do the legal action against poroguing Uk parliament as part of or on behalf of Scottish govt.She was also not only legal person involved no Scottish taxpayers money was spent on that. Only Scottish government one was on Right to Hold Indy Ref and that action was by Scottish Govt and funded by Scottish govt funds including from us taxpayers

        • Tam the Bam says:

          Do try and sound like an intelligent person even if you’re not.

          • Eilidh says:

            I quoted fact the legal action against the prorogation of uk parliament was damn all to with with Scottish government Look it up The case was R Miller versus Prime Minister and Cherry versus Advocate General for Scotland in Scottish part of the case. She was acting in her profession as a QC at the time along with others
            Your insults towards me just show you are acting like a two year old

  22. Capella says:

    I see The National has changed the front page for tomorrow. No more Bute House, rainbow flag and Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater grinning. Now it’s Humza Yousaf and his parents inset celebrating Scotland’s first Moslem FM.
    Identity politics wins.
    However, I already cancelled my subscription so joining in the cancel culture at last.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      I’ve got your back Capella.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Dont know if you noticed Capella in a post prior to this one where I applauded the efforts of Joanna Cherry. As you are well aware I’m sure..Joanna now seems to be a contentious ‘figure?’…..When Blackford said…..”she’s not a team player”….I celebrated and deemed Blackford worthy of his ‘churchillian posture’ at PMQ’s…as an old fart.
      I was not disappointed.

  23. UndeadShaun says:

    This is all turning in to judean peoples front/peoples front of judea here.

    Westminster and media will be loving this.

    They love divide and rule its straight out of their rule book.

    Why not calm down & wait and see how things pan out over the coming months.

    • grizebard says:

      How true. I’m not myself a member, and preferred a different outcome, but the puir old SNP catching flak from all sides like this? Yet where would we be without it? Any realistic alternative, anyone? It’s not hard to see why it’s feared and hated so much, and by whom. The Brit media sensing a rare opportunity, and talking up Labour as our new best false friend, the Tories being yesterday’s Great Saviour of the Union. Why give these enemies any help? Members and supporters alike need to keep a sense of perspective, and a beady eye on where we need to be going. Together.

  24. Dr Jim says:

    As predicted the English media rubbish Humz Yousaf’s legitimacy to be Scottish FM because 20k members couldn’t be bothered voting and he won by only a narrow margin
    Of course the English media wouldn’t even dream of mentioning the fact that Rishi Sunak’s Conservative party in actuality positively rejected Sunak out of hand for leader of their party in preference of Liz Truss the woman who wrecked the entire economy of every country in the UK

    Yousaf was not my choice for FM because I don’t believe he’s got what Scotland needs at this moment in time to be FM

    Humza’s a Spaniel when what we needed was a Pit Bull

    England has no respect for Scotland’s people or institutions, it has been trying unsuccessfully to make Scotland English for 300 years and failed, and they despise us for their failure, but rather than admit that failure and let us go our own way they impose more and more dictatorship upon us and much of it just plain spiteful

    There are people in Scotland that won’t learn that fact because they just can’t comprehend that we’re not the same, we just have different accents
    A Frenchman is not the same as a German and they live next door to each other, the difference is they understand that and get along fine celebrating their differences, England cannot celebrate difference, it’s incapable, they don’t understand when they insist we be the same as them that we’re not, they see it as deliberate refusal to respect their right to rule

    Half my family are English and live in England, I know what they feel and think, this is who they are, which is fine by me if that’s what they want and vote for but England’s votes become Scotland’s rule, whatever they want Scotland Wales and the North of Ireland get

    That’s not a union, that’s a dictatorship by a country we didn’t vote for and didn’t elect anybody from, and what’s even more ridiculous is even England didn’t elect Rishi Sunak, he was imposed upon them too, and look around folks, England like some sort of Goldfish has forgotten that fact

    Unless Scotland has a Pit Bull to point this stuff out we’re even more of a Goldfish than England and destined to be right where England wants us in *who the hell do we think we are land* we are nothing and nobody if we don’t bite these Bastirts in the Arse when they cannot comprehend the meaning of the word democracy

    Wasn’t that the Greeks or history or something ? That’s English democracy, teach it as a historical notion, but not reality

    • Golfnut says:

      ” what we needed was a Pit Bull ”
      What we needed was a Pit Bull with a set instructions from the members of the Special Conference, a conference cancelled by an NEC that is redefining the term useless, nailed to their desk. Instead we have the ‘ let’s wait and see ‘ how the new guy settles in trope being punted everywhere. The media meanwhile are already booted and suited with their shite guns cocked and loaded ready to go.
      Nicola Sturgeon was ready to take westminster head on, there was no mistake, no bad judgement involved in killing off the Holyrood referendum route. She had the legs cut from under her and it’s high time the members reminded the NEC just exactly whose party this is.

      • ulsterScots says:

        Nicola Sturgeon never once took om Westminster so stop with the rewriting of history

        • Hamish100 says:

          Leave it to the Brit nats like you? OBN for you!

          • ulsterScots says:

            Give examples of her taking on Westminster.

            Was it when she begged for a referendum despite being told on numerous occasions the answer would be no?

            Believe it or not pointing out how incompetent she was doesnt’t make me a Brit nat I’m only that to fully paid up members of the cult of Nicola

        • scottish_skier says:

          Do you think the British in the North of Ireland would still call it ‘Ulster Scots’ if Scotland voted for Independence like Ireland did?

          Or would it become ‘Ulster British’ as I’ve seen appearing since the SNP came to power here?

          • ulsterScots says:

            There are very little British in Donegal (the North of Ireland) and I don’t live there.
            In Northern Ireland where I live there is a thriving Ulster Scots culture as well as a thriving Ulster Scots culture in the US and that won’t change.
            I have never heard folk calling themselves Ulster British and I’ve lived here this time since 2013

            • Pogmothon says:

              Britain as yoons like to style it, is the main island of this archipelago which is made up of the countries of england, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales (in alphabetical order) with their associated smaller islands. It would appear that those who wish to frame themselves as Ulster Scots would like to equate a region of a country with an actual neighbouring country. In a similar manner to wastemonster trying to turn Scotland into a region of greater England.
              I have a sneaking suspicion that you would be quite happy to see that become a reality.
              Wait a minute did the term Ulster Scots not arise in the raggie(sic) army, they raise enough troops for a regiment but didn’t know where to put them. Kind of like the Liverpool Irish.
              Or perhaps it’s just my fertile imagination.

              • ulsterScots says:

                Britain is the Island that makes up Scotland, Wales and England and the British isles includes all the other Islands including the Second biggest Island which has Ireland and Northern Ireland on it so that’s a fail on geography for you.
                Ulster Scots are the ones who moved to the second biggest Island settling mainly in the North east part of that Island from Scotland hence the name. They were at the forefront of the Thirteen colonies gaining its Independence from the UK.
                In the US when they say Scotch Irish that means Ulster Scots.
                the term Ulster Scots was around well before the Williamite wars so that’s a fail on history for you as well

        • Golfnut says:

          If you didn’t actually understand my comment it would have better to say nothing rather than make tit of yourself.

    • grizebard says:

      “Humza’s a Spaniel when what we needed was a Pit Bull”

      Yes, I think that’s the fear underlying the dismay at the choice. Not that he isn’t a good guy, or indeed a minister that, despite all the politically-motivated denigration, hasn’t done a decent job with tough portfolios in UK-straightened circumstances, or that he isn’t a very astute politician (which he clearly is).

      It’s that we’ve lately been chafing at the apparent stagnation in progress given the SC decision and UKGov denialism, and in the wake of Nicola’s departure looking for a serious reboot, a rethink, a different and more forceful strategy for re-engaging people and moving things forward again. Instead we have what looks like just “more of the same”.

      The “good governance” strategy is necessary to convince ordinary voters that an independent Scotland would – at minimum – be safe and in good hands. That is essential, but it’s little wonder that as a consequence we get Mitigation Hell as the negative strategy of the opposition, not least from pseudo-Scottish Labour, who are specialists in that depressive business.

      (How is it though that Sarwar, for example, can endlessly demand that the SG fix something else caused by London yet is apparently rarely if ever challenged on why, if things are so f**d-up by London, he can somehow still manage to offer total subservience to it?)

      The difficulty with that strategy, however, is that it offers an easy vector of attack for the opposition. On its own it puts all advantage in the hands of the opposition and offers nothing in return, merely puts the SG on a permanent back foot. More and more defensiveness trying to justify decisions which themselves are often seriously constrained by UKGov policy and actions. (Something that the SG is often reluctant to admit, it seems. Presumably in part not to look like it’s just fishing for excuses.)

      The best means of defence is attack. So what we really need now is the opening of a new front, some means of taking the fight to the opposition where they are on shaky ground, which in many cases they are (and know it). Something that can break through the media omerta of all things SG and reach and activate ordinary folk.

      That is IMO the real challenge that faces the SNP and the new SG now. (And not, for example, playing silly musical chairs with the new cabinet.)

  25. Ken says:

    Kate Forbes next time.

    MSM cannot even get Humza’s name right.

  26. Tatu3 says:

    I’m a SNP member. I voted for Kate. I am sorely disappointed she didn’t win.
    I will remain a member and see what Humza does, how he acts, what he says. Hopefully he’ll grow a pair and surprise us

  27. buggybite says:

    I voted for Humza, and am relieved that he won. At the very least this means the independence majority at Holyrood will stand. Anybody who doesn’t think that is an important outcome (no matter what you think of the Green Party …and my feelings are mixed) should stop and consider what life would be like in the short term with Dross as FM …which is what would happen, if the Greens decided to abstain.

    The worst thing for the indy movement is our tendency to go screaming off into the night, resigning our party membership, running howling to the media with every grievance which loves nothing better than an anti-SNP feeding frenzy, and using particular issues as hills to die on. We must get a grip and realise that we will have to work together—even with people we don’t actually personally like!—if we are going to achieve independence—never mind set up and run the country afterwards. If people are expecting to fully agree with everything a party or politician does before supporting the drive to independence, they will have a very very long wait.

    I believe Humza understands this issue better than the other two candidates do. I think Kate is very talented, and I hope she stays on as Finance Minister, but I think Humza is the one who understands the need for balance, and recognises that the job of FM is to keep Scotland’s government ticking over, while the job of SNP leader is to engineer independence.

    These are two different jobs, and I think he knows that, and is prepared to delegate the ‘let’s get indy done’ strategy to others in the party, who can work behind the scenes—and are already doing so—while he concentrates his own efforts on keeping Holyrood on track. It’s his performance as FM that will convince the genuine undecideds that Scotland is fully competent to run itself, and that the SNP will have their backs in a crisis. (Like Nicola did so well during the pandemic.) I was also impressed by Humza’s support for Gordon McIntyre-Kemp’s Believe In Scotland group which is doing wonders at producing excellent leafleting material for the indy cause, as well as their recently-updated and fully sourced Scotland The Brief book (2023 edition.)

    There is a lot of difference between the SNP ‘kicking the can down the road’ and ‘getting all the ducks in a row.’ The strategy for achieving independence can NOT be done with full scrutiny by the public every step of the process, so it might look as if nothing is being done. However, it’s important to realise that the media is NOT. Our. Friend. They will tear to shreds any hint of our independence strategy before it ever gets to the stage where it can be implemented. And I’m afraid I include The National in this now …especially after the hysterical way they ‘handled’ the leadership contest. I actually suspect they’ve got a wholly different agenda from what we initially believed.

    Think! The media aren’t pointing out flaws in the SNP and the SNP leadership because they want independence to succeed and our leaders to do better! Instead, they want us to lose heart, lose faith in our leadership, fall apart squabbling about this that and the other, and simply give up and go away.

    Don’t let them succeed. Keep calm, stay focused, and carry on.

    • Golfnut says:

      What ducks?

      • buggybite says:

        Little things like setting up embassies and other connections around the world so we have international support already in place, setting up a National Bank, setting up ways to transfer things like pension provision to a new Scottish government after independence, ensuring that we will have ports in place to resume trade directly with the EU, working on a constitution to present for ratification and modification at the outset of our independent parliamentary sessions and so on. It’s important to realise that we can’t guarantee certain results, which will need to be negotiated after the indy vote is successful, but we need to have plans in place as to what we will demand and insist upon in all these areas.

        And we would be stupid indeed if we revealed these plans to the public now, so the media can tear them to shreds.

        The biggest obstacle to our independence is the fact that, as yet, we have not taken a direct vote on it since 2014. Why else do you think the UK government is so dead set on ‘forbidding’ us to take that vote …if it doesn’t count? Of course it counts.

        If our vote is YES this time, in a legal referendum—which is still being sought as a preferred option—or de-facto referendum such as the next General Election. The UK government can’t refuse to hold that election, and they have no control whatsoever over the SNP party manifesto. If the SNP makes it clear that a vote for the SNP is a vote to declare independence immediately, we will have every legal right to declare independence and begin negotiations for it if we win—because that is what the majority of people will have voted for. This is where international support will be important …and one of the ducks Nicola and her team have been busy setting up.

        2014 was a heady time. However, it’s important to accept that we lost that vote. We can’t expect to go charging in half-blind, just hoping things will change ‘this time.’ The Union is more than aware they may well lose this time, so instead of the ‘bring it on’ mentality they showed in 2014, they are now doing everything they can to prevent the vote being taken again.

        Nobody has a magic wand here, and there are still a lot of committed Unionists as well as genuine undecideds out there. We can not assume anything. We can only set things up so that when the time comes, everybody has something to vote FOR, and expectation that it can happen, that it can be done. Disunity and crabbypetty attacks via a compliant media are not going to accomplish this.

        • bringiton says:

          I agree with most of what you say.
          Humsa was not my first choice,mainly because SNP supporters will most always vote for independence but it those who are not that need to be convinced and in that respect Kate might have been better.
          We must not let the Anglo media get away with a narrative that the party is in disarray and that independence is dead in the water.
          Achieving independence by whatever means is the issue we must have a laser focus on.
          Onwards and upwards.

        • Golfnut says:

          Your obviously a committed independence supporter buggiebite but everything on your wish list of must have’s has been on that list since 2014, yes there’s been progress on the setting up of trade hubs, and some refurb and increasing capacity in some ports but the SG doesn’t have access to the financial resources required for major infrastructure projects like transport hubs, rail and road connectors, port extentions, ferries, a National bank, how long have we talking about this. The reality is Scotland needs more of everything and our neighbour controls the purse strings including borrowing powers. The narrative that we need to be oven ready is union led and they will do everything in their power to deny Scotland access to the cash we need, look no further than carbon capture projects for proof of that.
          What we need now is hardline honesty, we need to ditch the narratives and milestones set by others as must haves before….
          Independence first and then everything is possible.

    • grizebard says:

      So your conclusion is that Humza needed to win because otherwise another political party with no say would take a hissy fit at the result? Seriously? Is that the best you can offer? That a minority SNP government, if that were to be the outcome, would be impossible (despite the plain fact that it already happened during AS’s first term) and instead parliament would – whit? – fall into the hands of DRoss?

      If that’s the typical level of analysis of the “continuity” supporters, I despair.

  28. Skintybroko says:

    Sad to see people leaving the SNP because their candidate didn’t win as I see it you got to be in it to change it. We are all different but that’s a good thing or else we’d be in a dictatorship. I voted for Kate but will give Humza the benefit of the doubt at least for now. As for the greens – we need to push a green agenda and it should be easier with them on board. They may want to go further than the SNP but a compromise helps move the timeframe.

    Humza says he will put independence at the forefront – so give him the chance, he hasn’t even been in the role as leader 24hrs yet the knives are out. So much for being a broad church.

    • Naina Tal says:

      Like you voted for Kate. But I’m no aboot tae pick up the baw and go hame. Sure, I don’t believe Humza has what it takes. Charisma free personality, and strikes me as an order taker or one who reacts to situations. We’ll just have to wait (a wee while) to see if he can come up with the goods.
      To say the least, I’m very disappointed with the outcome. Here’s the “but” :
      I joined the SNP after the first referendum, never having been a member of any party before. The reason for joining was to make a financial contribution to the only party with any possibility of getting self determination for Scotland. That is still the case, (much as others might resent that) so my membership will continue. Because that is the prize, not any of the day to day shenanigans happening within the walls of Holyrood.

      • UndeadShaun says:

        I agree, i too joined after 2014 referendum and see SNP as the only party capable of bringing us independence.

        And by having a stable government in holyrood that helps the citizens of Scotland, unlike the one in westminster.
        it shows the undecided /soft nos, that the world will not fall in with independence.

        And the SNP have made big differences to scotland with free prescriptions, better child benefit than england and rewarding our NHS staff far better than rest of uk have.

        So for me its about the bigger goal of achieving independence and not throwing toys out of pram because it may take a bit longer than was hoped.

        And Humza is not even voted in yet and the nostradamus’s/mystic megs know exactly what he will do.

        Kate certainly looked happy with the result, unlike Ash Regan. So maybe she knows something we dont?

        We will see over coming months what the new FM’s plans are.

        • Golfnut says:

          The SNP is a member led party, the leader of the party’s ‘ priorities are those we’re supposed to have set.
          Nicola set in motion a process that would have provided the membership the opportunity to determine what path the leader will follow. Had the NEC not cancelled the special conference, we wouldn’t be sitting twiddling our thumbs, because the election would have been fought on the conferences decisions.

          • scottish_skier says:

            The SNP is a member led party

            That much is obvious from recent events. Some don’t seem to like that though given their reaction to members deciding how the party should be led! 🙂

            • Golfnut says:

              The liblabtory party’s have leader elections where members elect a leader, would you say they were member led ?

    • Capella says:

      I haven’t resigned because my candidate didn’t win. I resigned because Humza Yousaf won. I have no confidence that he will push an independence agenda. After four years of consultations over the GRR , the appalling Hate Crime Bill, for which Humza Yousaf as Justice Minister was responsible, the closed ranks of the “progressive” faction in supporting Yousaf and denigrating Kate Forbes and Ash Regan, his buckling to The Scottish Greens who are not so green but very “progressive”, I realised I have had enough. I don’t have to put up with this any more and I certainly don’t have to pay for it.

      Looking forward to taking Westminster to court over s35? Next priority the Ban Conversion Therapy bill? How is the Bottle Return Scheme doing? Another trip to the supreme court when that gets blocked?

      Nobody will be happier than me if I turn out to be wrong and Humza Yousaf delivers independence within this parliament – I suppose the October ’23 date is out of the question. I admire the stamina of those who are staying on.

      • scottish_skier says:

        The more Holyrood bills Westminster bans / overturns, the closer we get to independence.

        I hope Forbes supporters stick with the party. They form just shy of half of members, so giving nice balance. After all, Yousaf has no executive powers. He must lead by getting all his MSPs behind him, including all those that backed Forbes.

        • Capella says:

          Your logic escapes me. Westminster blocked the GRR bill. The changes in this bill are not supported by the majority of the Scottish people and taking them to court will only gift them the publicity to explain why. Expect lots of newspaper articles on violent men in women’s prisons etc.

          Section 35 is a section in the Scotland Bill passes by Parliament. It is lawful. There is no hope of winning this in the Supreme Court. Tell us how losing cases in the Supreme Court advances the cause of independence.

          Before long we will most likely have another opportunity to lose a case in the Supreme Court because the Bottle Return Scheme may well be blocked too. How many lost causes do you want?

          Would it not be better to challenge the Westminster government on issues which the Scottish people can support?

          • Capella says:

            Oh I forgot – you don’t accept polling results which contradict your preferences. You dismissed the results of a Yougov poll on the previous thread on the grounds that the public are too stupid to understand baffling questions like:

            Should the age limit be reduced from 18 to 16
            Should the time spent be reduced from 2 years to 6 months
            Should a doctor’s certificate be required.


          • Bob Lamont says:

            Dear God woman your own logic entirely “escapes me”.
            “The changes in this bill are not supported by the majority of the Scottish people” SAYS WHO, EVIDENCED BY WHAT ? ” and taking them to court will only gift them the publicity to explain why ” DESPITE REFUSING TO PROVIDE DETAILED CLARIFICATION TO SG AND THE LORD ADVOCATE ? “.Expect lots of newspaper articles on violent men in women’s prisons etc.” WHICH ASSERTIONS HAVE BEEN PROVEN ENTIRELY FALSE PREVIOUSLY.
            WTAF ?

            • Capella says:

              Not difficult.
              For polling on Scottish attitudes to the change proposed see here:
              https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MBM-GRA-POLLING-ANALYSIS-14.12.2021-FINAL.1. pdf (remove space)

              They have said it conflicts with the Equality Act 2010 and they have given examples. But they don’t have to do anything as they have the power through S35 in the Scotland Act and Parliament is sovereign and we re not yet independent.

              So you’ve never heard of Isla Bryson, Katie Dolatowski, Tiffany Scott or Paris Green? Look them up.

              • Legerwood says:

                I take “They” you refer to is the UKGov in the form of SoS Jack? What examples did they give of where the GRR Bill impacted the Equality Act? Genuinely want to know.

                • Capella says:

                  Here in the official response:

                  The Secretary of State considers that the Bill contains provisions which make modifications of the law as it applies to reserved matters and which the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe would have an adverse effect on the operation of the law as it applies to reserved matters. The reasons for this belief are set out at Parts 2, 3 and 4


                  See also BBC report on the s35 issue:

                  The Scottish government’s chances of winning a legal challenge over the gender reform row are “very low”, a former Supreme Court judge has said.
                  Lord Hope said a UK government document outlining its reasons for blocking the Scottish reforms was “devastating”.
                  And he said Scotland’s first minister was risking wasting a lot of time and money by taking the issue to court…

                  It has published a detailed list of reasons for the move which sets out areas such as equal pay for women and single-sex spaces that it says could be affected.


              • Bob Lamont says:

                Of course it’s not difficult if your only evidence is the widely debunked Mackenzie report, constructed on a subset of a wider survey over 3 days in November 2021 in the midst of the GRR propaganda war on SG.

                The 4 reprobates cited have not, nor could have anything to do with the GRA nor the GR reforms, if you’re not aware of that I suggest you look it up.

                • Capella says:

                  Widely debunked? By whom? Link?

                  The 4 “reprobates” are violent men housed in in women’s prisons in Scotland which really happens. “WHICH ASSERTIONS HAVE BEEN PROVEN ENTIRELY FALSE” is itself entirely false.

                  I can’t understand the denial of reality which accompanies this debate.

                  • Bob Lamont says:

                    “I can’t understand the denial of reality which accompanies this debate.” – Precisely

          • scottish_skier says:

            Expect lots of newspaper articles on violent men in women’s prisons etc.

            Yes, these lies help Yes / the SNP as violent men are not being housed in women’s prisons. People discover this pretty quickly as they’re not stupid and it only takes a few mins on google to check if it matters to someone. The rock solid unionist I met when skiing didn’t even buy such sh**te, and he was a Tory, never mind Lab/Lib.

            This is why the Tories have made no progress as a result of GRR in Scotland, while the SNP/Greens combined have been unimpacted. At most the Greens have gained due – possibly – to more liberal SNP voters shifting to the former as the SNP fights over the issue.

            That and 2/3 want the bill progressed, even when polling was trying lead them towards dumping it (WoS poll).

            But then I’ve said this more times than I can remember now. It seems we are stuck in a loop. 🙂

        • Pogmothon says:

          The more the wastemonster overturns.
          The closer we come to bankruptcy. Its the tory elite way throw lawyers, QCs at it until you can no longer afford justice or democracy.

      • Alec Lomax says:

        Ach, there’s always Alba. How are they doing ?

        • Capella says:

          I have no interest in joining any other political party. The SNP was the first party I ever joined and I did that in 2014 and it will likely be the last. So no – no idea how Alba are doing.

    • Handandshrimp says:

      I would agree with that. My choice didn’t win this time but the SNP are the only credible vehicle for independence and a sane left of centre government. I will accept the result and work with what we have. It is an absolute certainty that if people give up then the party will be frozen into a particular mould. It will also delight the Unionists that the SNP might be weakened. (Of course it might not, it won a majority in 2011 with only 25,000 members).

      One thing is for sure, there is no home in Alba, having read posts by their members I simply would not be comfortable in the company of such angry, hate filled people. Some appear to subscribe to every conspiracy going. Of course some may not be Alba, the bile and smears look suspiciously like the ones Unionists peddle.

      The Greens are laudable but I’m too set in my ways to knit my own underwear out of raffia.

      So there it is. We either make this work or we fail. Doing nothing is just the fast road to the latter.

      • scottish_skier says:

        I very rarely if comment on Alba, and even when I do it’s often just neutral observations polling etc, yet I seem to be hated / obsessed over by their most verbal proponents.

        It’s really weird, as I’m not even anyone of note. Just some random on the interweb.

        • Handandshrimp says:

          Alba seems to be a lightning rod for some very strange people.

          Hands across the water and diplomacy are not their strong points. It is either subscribe to our view or be declared all the bastards under the sun. Not a winning strategy imho.

    • scottish_skier says:

      Sad to see people leaving the SNP because their candidate didn’t win as I see it you got to be in it to change it.

      I didn’t leave Yes / give up being Scots when it lost in 2014.

  29. Dr Jim says:

    Well I certainly will not be tempted to join the Alba revenge party and neither should anybody else that has any sense
    Just because I resigned my membership doesn’t mean I think there’s any other party that can do better, especially the malcontented angry screamers that infest the internet who’ve been shouting at me and the rest of us for the last few years about their superior psychic brain power bestowed upon them by their mystical Guru that Nicola Sturgeon was a (insert insult here)

    There has been no better leader of the SNP and FM of our country ever and for those who scream and shout about referendums let’s be absolutely clear David Cameron *allowed* Scotland a referendum on independence out of a lapse in judgment as to the support for one, Alex Salmond had little to do with it except to ask, and it was granted laughingly by England because they knew the YES proposition would lose

    The real test came when Nicola Sturgeon asked the same question and each English PM has flatly said NO because they were terrified she’d win
    There is no fault can be attached to Nicola Sturgeon’s actions in this, she could do no more in the face of an English government that now knows they can never allow Scotland to ask the question of its own people

    You wanna blame somebody? blame the English government for being dictators

    That’s the measure of Nicola Sturgeon, she terrified the English government into openly showing their credentials as dictators and the rest of the world has seen it

    The door to independence now can be pushed open because of that mistake by England, I just happen to think it requires a new method now that it’s ajar

    • Scotland Aye says:

      So why did Ms Sturgeon not look for/ try a new method?

      • Dr Jim says:

        There is no democratic route to independence in the face of an English government that refuses to recognise democracy, that’s why Nicola Sturgeon left because she would not go down the other route and neither will Humza Yousaf

        England fears only two things, loss of international trade and body bags
        Drop a couple of planes out of England’s sky and they’ll be overcome with democracy rapidly

  30. Arthur+Thomson says:

    I have been an SNP member for just short of 60 years. I will continue to be. I voted for Kate but will support Humsa. Now is the time to stand together.

  31. Handandshrimp says:

    One good thing about the Holyrood FM election process is that it does remind one how awful the alternatives are. Humza looks positively statesmanlike by comparison to Ross, Sarwar and the other chap.

  32. JP58 says:

    Strikes me after watching all the media, opposition and half his own side telling everyone who useless the new FM is expectations of him will be very low. All he needs to do is a few thing’s adequately and people will think he is not quite so bad as everyone said!

    • Capella says:


      • JP58 says:

        It was a joke about all the hysterical overreaction to his electoral.
        Everyone needs to calm down and support him and just wait and see see how he does.
        I am never been an SNP member but it is apparent to me that too many people who support independence are being played like puppets by the supporters of the union in media at the moment.
        He has been voted in by a narrow majority- if SNP support falls in next GE I reckon there will be another leadership election in advance of 2026 Holyrood election.

    • Dr Jim says:

      I don’t think Humza will be a bad FM, it’s just that we’ll all be sleeping so we won’t notice

  33. Dr Jim says:

    Tonight Scotland’s national football team will play Spain, one of the top teams in the world, will it be on our TVs in Scotland? of course not, because in Scotland if we want to see our national football team play we have to have some sort of subscription channel or a dodgy streaming service

    If England are playing football it’s all over every channel in Scotland free to view

    Let’s just remember who the enemy of Scotland actually is and who controls all broadcasting, and no it’s not the BBC, It’s the English government who refuses to devolve broadcasting to Scotland because they claim that a Scottish government could use such control for propaganda purposes

    Only a government who uses broadcasting for propaganda purposes themselves would claim another would do the same

    Let’s remember just who the enemy of Scotland is

    • Danny says:

      Dr Jim. The SFA are the ones who sold the rights for the games to a pay for view tv company, no point blaming anyone else but you rant ahead.

      • jfngw says:

        Or it could be the terrestrial channels are not interested in bidding a reasonable amount for non England games. STV do not have the cash as they are effectively frozen out of any ITV commissions and BBC Scotland only has the budget allocated by London (it’s a mirror of how Westminster controls Holyrood).

        The SFA are looking for the best income, that is not going to come from English free to air broadcasters.

  34. Welsh_Siôn says:

    QUICK! On-line poll.

    3,978 VOTES

    Should Scotland be independent with its own government?

    YES – 23%
    NO – 73%
    DK – 4%


    (Poll below the Yousaf story)

    • scottish_skier says:

      Curtice of course didn’t say Labour were on for taking 10 SNP seats. He said they had a chance in 10 if they could build more support. That’s coming from them benefiting from the Tory demise. They’ve not made any measurable gains from Yes/SNP voters of late. Why would they?

      The problem is that he’s ignoring the Green / Alba share in these polls. Such folks go SNP under UK FPTP to vote tactically. Many polls are prompting for these alongside the SNP. It’s a non-standard approach which unrealistically boosts ‘other’. The most recent Yougov for Westminster had 10% other, which is just never, ever going to happen. These normally get <2%.

      Which is why I don't understand the hatred towards Green voters. These are helping the SNP in UK and Holyrood Constituency votes. But then the hate seems to be coming from people who you kindae suspect might not be indy supporters at all. 🙂

      • grizebard says:

        Not all Green voters support the SNP, actually. That can easily be demonstrated by the STV transfer preferences in local elections. When there remains an SNP candidate in the running, some go nowhere (the exceptionalists), some go to Labour and some even go to Tory. And in significant proportions besides.

        • scottish_skier says:

          Local elections are about local issues, so caution needed.

          However, if what you say is happening at a national to UK level, then we’d best stop being nasty about unionists, as some of them must being going SNP! 🙂

          Greens are on 8-10% under PR (regional list, last election to recent polling), i.e. when folks don’t have to vote tactically, and what ultimately decides the make up of Holyrood. SNP were 8% lower under non-tactical PR in 2021 than they were on the tactical-ripe constituency. That 8% are helping them, and likely at Westminster too, was my point!

          • grizebard says:

            There likely is some net advantage of Green voter support in FPTP, but continuing to assert *full* support – 8% or whatever – for indy is just not borne out by the available evidence. Not only in the 100%-coverage “opinion sampling” of contrary vote transfer behaviour where choice is unconstrained, but also in public statements of Green activists, etc. Some, as one obvious example, see themselves as the “bearers of the torch” of righteousness – the new exceptionalists, if you will – and will have no truck with any “compromisers”, as they see it. Or party reps who do their own thing regardless. One very obvious case of the latter being Patrick Harvie himself, who – as is his perfect right – stands in WM elections in Glasgow in a typical piece of personal grandstanding, aiming to attract the more-radical youth vote.

            So claiming full Green voter support in WM elections just isn’t tenable and isn’t borne out by the available evidence. And it doesn’t seem to be influenced much by official Green Party support in Holyrood either. In the end they are out for themselves, and for them independence is a secondary issue at best.

  35. Hamish100 says:

    I see AUOB are kicking off -again.

    Any idea how you can get elected cos I think they spend more time arguing at the SNP and pro independence than the British state and unionists. Change at the top required.

    Asking for a middle age women with great experience, never defeated in election , just retired…….

  36. grizebard says:

    Well, I see that Humza has just committed his first mis-step by offering popular major talent Kate Forbes a significant demotion. Which of course she refused. Copying Liz Truss and packing a cabinet with your pals is hardly a good omen.

    • Skintybroko says:

      That’s disappointing, how much influence did the greens have over this offer. She should have been retained as finance minister.

    • UndeadShaun says:

      Thats disapointing, I would have hoped he would have kept her in her current post.
      As you say a mistake.

    • Golfnut says:

      Well done Kate, that was an insulting offer.

    • Handandshrimp says:

      A big mistake in my book. Given 48% of us voted for Kate he needed to keep her on the team.

    • Tatu3 says:

      Well that was a big, big mistake. Almost as many of us voted for her as those that voted for him.

    • Capella says:

      Idiot. But no surprise. I don’t expect him to be statesmanlike. Kate has great strength of character.

  37. Old Pete says:

    Seems a major mistake and he has barely been voted in. Humza not starting well, should we be surprised ?

  38. Dr Jim says:

    It was a slimy move and the party and country will pay for it

    • raineach says:

      Rejoin, Dr Jim. There will be another leadership election this year as Useless is doing a Truss

      • Dr Jim says:

        Only if I get offered rural affairs

        • scottish_skier says:

          It’s a good post. Pity to see people attacking it.

          • ayeinskye says:

            A good post, going from party number 3 to essentially number 23, Humza should have offered her DFM, does he not realise how much Kates family did for the party in the Highlands, a big mistake if you ask me

            • scottish_skier says:

              I have said numerous times I think Yousaf should have asked her to be DFM.

              I was just saying it was wrong to attack the post, so mocking the person granted it, and the government of Scotland in general.

              Seems being neutral is a bad thing and I need to pick a camp! 🙂

              • grizebard says:

                You’re not “neutral”, never have been, no matter how many times you try to claim this higher ground.

                • scottish_skier says:

                  Again, I ask people to point to my posts where I have made an effort to campaign for either candidate, either by saying how wonderful they are, or attacking their opponent. Nobody seems to be able to do that.

                  And how is neutral a ‘higher ground’? What nonsense. So I have to pick a candidate and argue with everyone and if not I’m acting superior? Seriously?

                  I saw good qualities in both, and figured there was going to be a tight race. I also figured there’d be tantrums whoever won, and potential problems with that. So I did not see an an ‘ideal’ candidate.

                  Again, I am no leader cultist. I vote for the party and for my local MSP. Some people seem obsessed with the leader. It’s like they want to be what unionists want them to be. If Yousaf’s sh*te, he’ll be gone soon enough. Same would have applied to Forbes. Sturgeon stayed because she was very good and could herd the cats. It’s that simple.

                  It’s a party leader. It changes nothing indy wise. What the leader wants matters not a jot in terms of getting indy. It’s whether Scots want it. They’re not going to go off indy because of a single party leader. It’s just going to be pretty irritating seeing people arguing with each other over this rather than focussing on independence.

      • scottish_skier says:

        Which is why it seems silly to me that people are off in a huff. I’ve done nothing but say that if the winner doesn’t herd the cats, leading for all, their time will be very short!

  39. raineach says:

    Day 2 in the job. A coup is launched against the majority of members who voted against Humza Useless. He has already split the party. God knows who he is getting his advice from but the man has to go

    • scottish_skier says:

      It is stupid IMO, but then I can go get some links to where those now complaining were saying that a Forbes FM should dump Yousaf! 😉

      Two cheeks of the same… etc 🙂

      • My last word, S-S. This man has single-hhandedly destroyed the SNP.
        The Party will lose seats at the next UKGE and he will be forced to stand down, Liz Truss style.
        It is madness to insult half the membership like this.
        I’ve had enough of this suicide pact. Yusaf and Harvie have set independence back at least 20 years. well done Kate Forbes for telling him where to stick his Jim Hacked Northin’ Job.
        She will be FM within a few years.
        I’m gone now, and leave you with your GRA nonsense.
        Shona Robinson as DFM?

        Yusaf confirms what I already knew; he’ll never be up to the job.
        But he’ll soend half a million being publicly humiliated over the GRR, and have the Brit Jocks in stitches when England says ‘No’.
        To insult Kate Forbes like this is beyond belief.
        I’ll not be voting SNP/Green from now on in.
        Independence is the last thing they want.
        Good to know you all.

        • scottish_skier says:

          She will be FM within a few years

          If her supporters stick with being members (to vote for her) and she seeks to be in the cabinet / influential without harming the party (to keep her prominent), she has a very good chance! She just got half the vote, and is relatively new on the scene. It’s impressive. I suspected she’d do very well, even win, and aye, it’s who it worked out.

          She needs to win over those that voted Yousaf to be FM. Just as Yousaf won’t last long if he doesn’t win over those that voted Forbes. C’est la vie.

          But I’ve said this sort of annoyingly neutral stuff for weeks now. 🙂

          • Win over those who voted for Yusaf?
            No she doesn’t, S-S.
            The Yes Movement are the Independence Movement, not 20,000 or so hard core Delayers.
            The Party will lose big time at the next election because that man and Robinson are in charge.
            Never mind that. Back to more important stuff. What’s happening about the GRA?
            What a hopeless mess you l;ot have got the party into.
            Harvie wins, forbes is chucked out.

            It’s not about independnence is it? It’s about GRA.
            You have set the Independnece movement back 20 years.
            Yes you, S-S.

            • Eilidh says:

              I support GRA Jack is this all my fault too. It is the electorate that is important not the bloody Independence movement. Not surprised Humza moved Kate from finance as her economic policy was far more to the right than his or Sturgeons When I heard her say she wanted to reduce the tax take on businessesin the middle of a cost of living crisis that was it for me-no support from me. Was not making her DFM a mistake ,possibly although not 100% sure she would have accepted the post. Early days yet if he can’t unite the party he will be gone soon and everyone will be happy -not

              • ayeinskye says:

                If its electorate that is important then the GRRB should be binned as it is, as 70% of the elctorate are against the self id part of it but Kate always said she would go to London and sort out what their problems were re the GRR, make amendments and get it introduced that way, not by wasting money on a court case on the S35.
                As for reducing business taxes, then again that is also a good thing in certain circumstances, but she would have her hands tied by Westminster taxes anyway.
                Just remembercity business models might not work in rural areas where Kate is being told and sees things happenng in her constituency and whre small businesses are already being hammered by higher costs. where she is held in high regard. Hearing loads of grumblings in Skye tonight at Humza dissing Kate with what is essentially a demotion.
                Also remember Kate increased her vote share by 6500 votes, how many other SNP MSPs can say that, and if Kate is removed and Emma Roddick pushed for the constituency seat, then the SNP WILL lose the seat to the Lib Dems who are still pretty liked in the area and are the largest party behind the SNP. Emma Roddisk is disliked and it didnt help that the list was gerrymandered where folks who polled better in the constituency assosciation candidate votes lost out, Tom Wills was the preferred list member

                • Calum says:

                  Do you really think they will try to replace Kate ? As you say , the SNP will definitely lose the seat if they do that. I actually think she could win the seat even if she stood as an Independent.
                  Offering her a demoted post was actually worse than nothing at all.

                  • ayeinskye says:

                    Will answer your question after but offering Kate Rural Affairs was offering her an apple full of poison, Rural Affairs takes in everything from Food to Farming, but a big bone of contention just now is that the Greens demanded that HPMAs were to be introduced in the Bute House Agreement and in Rural Affairs portfolio is fishing and aquaculture, now in a constituency like Kates where lots of jobs rely on fisheries and aquaculture, HPMAs could cause a problem for her,
                    HPMAs will stop all fishing regardless if its trawling or potting, it will stop fish farms, kelp harvesting, and wildlife boat trips, take for example where I was based from, the word is that loch is going to have an HPMA, three creel boats with 11 crew will be stopped from catching langustine, crab and lobsters, a proposed kelp farm which was to support 6 jobs, the boat company I worked for has one office based staff member, it will have 3 skippers, and 4 crewmen, that will be stopped, a diving charter boat with 4 employees will not be allowed to work from there also, that is just one loch, now these HPMAs are going to cause grief to any MSP who has coastal communities in their constituency whether its Highlands and Islands, Argyll & Bute or Western Isles( I ain’t even going to try and call it its proper title) But Kate Has Skye and Lochaber, with lots of marine based jobs, Alasdair Allan has the same out in the Western Isles so that portfolio is untouchable for any of those MSPs
                    Now back to replacing Kate, I am not sure if you were a party member when the last lot of candidates were elected, but Emma Roddick tried to get Kates’s seat through the disabled clause putting her at the top of the list, the same thing that happened to Joan Macalpine by Emma Harper, but Roddick was placed in the lower half of the candidate selection after the vote, Withh Kate, top, can’t remember who was second, but Kate was targeted by the Stirling Youth lot, Out For Indy, etc for removal due to her religious views so yes, I can see the party trying to deselect her, and I like you agree, she would get voted back in on the back of her own name as an independent, she was the only SNP MSP who improved her tally by 6500 last Holyrood election

                    • Calum says:

                      Thanks for replying. I agree about the HPMAs, they will be a disaster for the Highlands and Islands, if implemented. The Greens hold far too much sway in relation to their support. The SNP could have managed fine without them.
                      I’m pretty sure Maree Todd was second and I’m almost certain Blackford supported her. I was a member then and voted for Kate .

                    • ayeinskye says:

                      Mares was second, Fergus third, Tom Wills 4th Emma was a couple down, and Rhiannon Spear was near the bottom, but Roddick got bumped up, and it was down to constituents because Emma thought she would go number one with having a disability on a disabled list like McLaughlins grifter husband getting bumped to the top in a BAME list, I voted for Kate both times, first when Dave Thompson retired and then 2019as our convened asked me to rejoin to help promote the good guys in the NEC election, I left as soon as Fiona Robertson appeared back on the NEC through the affiliates, the SNP became very good at gerrymandering elections that year

              • I’m sure that you’ll all be happy with your shrunken wee husk of a once great party,Eilidh.
                You just don’t get it do you?
                You don’t want independence..you want your wee right-on clique to run England’s colony for them instead.
                You have destroyed the SNP as a party.
                But as long as allthe minotiries have you to protect their rights, ‘cos we aren’t? you are happy to remain a serf in England’s colony.
                I have had enough of the Moral High Grounders.
                The rest of us will sit back and watch you lot make an absolute ass of running things.
                Our day will come.

            • Alec Lomax says:

              Who elects the Yes Movement ?

      • Eilidh says:

        I think she would have offered Humza a lower profile post if she had won. That’s politics it is a dirty business unfortunately. I once heard someone say that even to aspire to be a politician you have to have a psychological disorder that quite possibly could be true. Just my opinion mind

  40. Hamish100 says:

    Shona Robison has Cllr. Yusaf- hubby is FM, working for her.

    Do they never learn? Do they not understand perception is everything.

    What a pathetic start for the new leadership.

    I joined the snp in 1973 so seen many ups and downs. I know many in the party good and bad. If you don’t put Independence before your career then step down 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Independence first and foremost in my books.

  41. Capella says:

    A handy checklist of the potential ministers from Philip Sim.

    • Eilidh says:

      Who is Phillip Sim?

    • Handandshrimp says:

      With only Ivan as a serving minister backing Kate the litmus test will be where Humza goes from here in order to establish any notion of a wider tent. If Ivan is dropped then who knows where we go from here.

      • Capella says:

        We’ll just have to wait till the announcement tomorrow. I will be just as livid if he drops Ivan as I am about Kate. But would Ivan want to be sitting around that cabinet table?

        • Handandshrimp says:

          I suppose there is a fair chance the cabinet might not be very different from last week. But with Nicola, John and Kate stepping back there will have to be at least three new faces.

  42. Calum says:

    Yousaf has treated Kate with absolute contempt and given the two fingers to half the SNP membership.
    Those in control of the SNP are rotten to the core and the damage they have done to the independence movement is unforgivable.

  43. Alastair says:

    Scotland 2 Spain 0

  44. Eilidh says:

    Really why don’t you found another left leaning Indy supporting party then one that is not Alex Salmond’s vanity project and not a hate fest.

    • grizebard says:

      Be careful what you joke about, because if the new SNP leadership continues, as it seemingly has already started, to cavalierly dismiss half of its current membership, and merely continues to do its best to keep devolution creaking along, such a thing might eventually come to pass. Politics isn’t static, it will always evolve to fill a perceived vacuum.

      A social democratic party with its concerns rooted in people’s genuine everyday needs and experiences instead of one seemingly obsessed with half-baked do-goodery and imported identity politics that converts no-one, what’s not to like…?

      • Eilidh says:

        I was not joking. Maybe another party with the ideals I have mentioned is needed. How much electoral success it would have though is debatable. From the general electorates point of view The Snp with Humsa as FM is not near as formidable without NS in charge in my opinion and the same may have applied if Kate won too

  45. Eilidh says:

    That comment was in reply to Calum

    • ayeinskye says:

      Why because he is speaking from his heart, and the truth. If the SNP had done what it was elected for, then neither Alba nor the ISP would have been born, and remember, each and every member of both of those parties were former SNP members, sick of being fed carrots every election time, not seeing Nicola or any SNP cabinet minister appear at indy marches, yet she was happy to do Pride or Anti Brexit marches. The grassroots have always done the heavy hitting with regards to pushing forward the momentum for independence, while the SNP stole its thunder, and yes it happened before Nicola was made leader also, but at least Alex was visible.
      Independence should have come first everything else could have been sorted after, if Scotland had been independent, then Westminster couldn’t have used an S35, think about that. I started to worry when in the run-up to the Westminster election, Nicola started today a vote for the SNP wasn’t a vote for independence, that was my wake-up call, I remained until 2018, left, and was asked by the branch convener to return for the candidate and NEC vote, which I did, and left again when affiliate bodies got more representation on the NEC than what ordinary members did, then when Fiona Robertson appeared at the first meeting after being voted out, that was it, I left the party BUT I still gave the SNP my constituency vote, well when I say gave the party, I meant I gave Kate my vote for the constituency, but I gave Alba my list vote, as a header on social media I used a picture of three people facing away with arms on shoulders, Alba, SNP, and ISP written on their backs.
      2026 and if Kate is standing, she will get my vote, I will never give the greens a vote, they are standing candidates against the SNP in all constituency seats, that is the party that is and has actively stolen seats from the SNP, not Alba and Not the ISP

  46. Skintybroko says:

    I suppose having thought it through Kate would have been an ideal advocate for Rural Scotland as they do want representation by a big hitter – sorry to see her resign, hope it’s more to do with raising her children as opposed to storming off in the huff as that’s almost as bad.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Apparently there was no storming, Humza made Kate an offer she couldn’t accept, and she told him politely where to stick it
      According to other MSPs who were there their was a sharp intake of breath and strong words by everybody when they found out how he’d treated her

      The smart thing would’ve been to offer her health or keep her where she is, why have someone so talented and far cleverer than him on the outside when she could have made him look good by working for him on the inside

      I’ll say it again, it was a dick move by a slimy politician as bad as what the untalented Starmer did to Jeremy Corbyn

      I’ve been all over the place tonight reading the fallout from this, and the country doesn’t like it one bit

      I’ve also had two emails from central office asking me to reconsider my resignation
      Shit and fan come to mind

      • Capella says:

        Well there is a vacancy at Rural now.

        • ayeinskye says:

          Its a poisoned challice Capella, any MSP who has coastal communities on the west coast as constituents would be well advised to steer clear, HPMAs are going to bring about a shitstorm of complaints due to this,Kate brought it up at a hustings last weekend, but for city dwellers its just an acronym, for folks who work on the water, its going to mean thousands, not hundreds, but thousands of jobs at risk so unless an coastal MSP is extremely thick(Emma Roddick) then they would walkaway from it

      • grizebard says:

        I had wondered if, given her comments during the contest, in the event that Humza won he might actually offer her Health. As payback. (Or am I just a little twisted? {grin}) A critical top-level posting about which she had waxed eloquent, and one that would have been hard to refuse.

        While there is no job in government not worth doing, the offer he did make was one he clearly intended her to refuse. Effectively a casual gesture of dismissal that was also a slap in the face for all her supporters both within and outwith the party.

        So my respect for him has already dropped a notch. Not that he will care, (or even notice!), but I’m far from alone. It creates a negative impression among the public-at-large. Not an auspicious start. A good government is one that has room for all the brightest and best, not one packed with cronies and prey to groupthink.

      • Eilidh says:

        Blimey to offer her Health cabinet post would have been cruel. That post is a poison chalice even worse than FM

        • keaton says:

          Doesn’t seem to have done Humza or Nicola any harm

        • grizebard says:

          It’s a demanding position, no doubt about it, with Mitigation Hell heaped on top of real issues. Cruel maybe, a challenge certainly, but somebody has to do it, and who better than someone with energy, drive and recent strongly-expressed views? It would have been a respectful way of in effect saying “well, if you think you could do a better job, let’s see how you get on”. Maybe also a political life lesson for someone with a Treasury background. And I’m sure she would be capable of it.

          Instead we get this petty-minded disrespectful offer to a political equal.

      • Eilidh says:

        The Snp needs folk like you Dr Jim I certainly wish you would reconsider but understand your reasons for resigning

  47. Capella says:

    A rogues’ gallery – not the official cabinet yet:

    • Capella says:

      Oops sorry – just meant to post the second tweet. It’s getting late.

      • Eilidh says:

        Strange that we are now quoting BBC Scotland politics journos. They are always so truthful and don’t have an agenda. Has Humza got off to a good start probably not.

    • Old Pete says:

      Is this a joke, hardly a third team never mind the main team. Is Humza working for the dark side, surely he could have done much, much better than this. But surprised I am not, worst choice ever and I will never see Scottish Independence with this pile of s***e in charge.
      Still Scottish football looking on the up again at least something good came from this terrible day for “the cause”

      • Capella says:

        Hang on Old Pete, the official cabinet announcement will be tomorrow. This is just Philip Sim speculating from the cronies surrounding him today.

  48. Eilidh says:

    As thread is too long this is in reply to Jack Collatin’s post at 10.53 pm

    I didn’t have a vote in the leadership election Jack as only joined the Snp 10 days ago so don’t blame me for Humsa being elected or your perceived ruination of the Snp. I have supported Independence since I was 15 and will do to my dying day. I will not bother commenting again on this matter or any of your future posts .

  49. Chicmac says:

    Just saw a CH 4 interview with Liz Lloyd. Nicola Sturgeons’right hand woman’. I’ve never seen her before but she came over as either being delusionally narcissistic or if
    believed, the Svengali behind Nicola’s past success. I would suspect the former since I knew and had nose to nose argument with Nicola Sturgeon long before she became deputy first minister and can testify that in no way was she lacking in self-confidence back then, as was claimed by Liz Loyd in the interview.
    Liz Loyd even went on, in answer to the question, What will Nicola do next? Will it be environmental speeches? with, we haven’t decided yet, like she was still controlling even her future ??? WTAF or am I getting that interview all wrong?

    • grizebard says:

      You’re getting it all wrong, tout court. Will all this rank suspicion and paranoia over people who have been doing their level best for us, sometimes in very stressful circumstances, never cease….?

      • Chicmac says:

        OK I rewatched it and now I can agree with you. She still comes over as being very pleaed with herself and inflating somewhat her own influence but not as much as I thought on my first viewing. I guess we all want to think of Nicola as being her own woman.

        • grizebard says:

          Oh, I suppose everyone “behind the scenes” in politics likes to think they have (had) more influence on the ‘players’ than they really did. But if anyone around NS has any claim to influence, it is Liz Lloyd. Virtually everywhere Nicola went (on SG business), Liz was there at her side, typically with a smile on her face, providing background info as needed. So she has fair claim as wing(wo)man.

          (I didn’t recognise her at first in that interview. She has become somewhat chubbier since I last caught sight of her, and evidently glammed-up besides for the interview – not that she ever needed that).

  50. johannacef says:

    Well, Hunza didn’t manage to make any healing inroads – I’m disappointed to hear how gleeful the MSM are this morning is about the fall out with Kate Forbes.. what happened to party unity??

  51. Ken says:

    Great news about the football, pity about everything else. Same old, same old. Itneeded a change to liven things up. Disappointing.

  52. scottish_skier says:

    Jings. Scotland 2 – 0 Spain!

    W_S. I can confirm I didn’t watch it!


  53. Robin McHugh says:

    If anyone on here has access to Twitter, might I suggest they have a look at Kate Forbes current tweet that has been there overnight?

  54. Capella says:

    Ivan McKee has now left the government after being offered a “lesser” job – don’t know what.

    • raineach says:

      So one wing of the party is utterly excluding the other. Truly, a new error in Scottish politics

    • Dr Jim says:

      Ivan was a Kate Forbes supporter, to slur him is also a slimy move, he was totally responsible for resourcing Scotland’s PPE during the pandemic and did it so well Scotland was supplying England with the excess
      Ivan was a businessman and didn’t come into the SNP for a job, he didn’t need the money, he did it solely for independence
      Once again this says exactly what I’ve been saying about Humza Yousaf, he has no intention of even advocating for independence other than platitudes
      The people who he needed to get the job of independence on the road he’s getting rid of, and he’s doing it blatantly

  55. craig murray says:

    Ivan is an excellent man and one of the few ministers to have had real life experience outside politics. Also one of the very few ministers who worked his guts out in the 2014 campaign.
    Not however on the Humza/Green wing. Purging him is a very bad sign. I think Humza has no right to expect unity if he is goinng to select ministers from only his half of the party. And it is half.

    • Capella says:

      I agree – I liked Ivan McKee ever since seeing him argue for independence in 2104 with great authority because of his experience. He’s right to refuse a demotion. He’ll be joining all the talents on the backbenches.

    • ayeinskye says:

      He is effectively alienating half of the party, which could come back and bite him on the arse if someone mounts a leadership challenge, those 20k unused votes could be used next time round esp if he makes a dogs breakfast out of things considering his past record

      • Alec Lomax says:

        The nations awaits Alba (Lol).

        • ayeinskye says:

          What’s Alba got to do with it Alex, Humza is pissing off party members by his actions, I have spoke to now three ex members who were constituency stalwarts and always out leafleting for the SNP and they have all quit the party, all because of Kate effectively being slapped down, she is well liked in the area, and was the only party member to get the gains she did in 2019, if she leaves, the lib dems will retake the seat with tactical voting, their candidate is a well known and like businessman from Ft William and is into land reform, and that is not what the independence movement will want to see happening, I certainly don’t, every Alba voter from Skye voted Kate as their constituency MSP rather than cut their noses off to spite their faces like others,

  56. UndeadShaun says:

    Kate forbes has said she wishes to spend more time with her family.
    Which is understandable.

    “In her first broadcast interview in her new role, Robison said Forbes refused a cabinet job mainly for personal, not political reasons. She said:

    I understand that the discussion was very cordial and was very much centred on what Kate’s thoughts were and I think she had reflected upon how hard the campaign had been for family life and her desire for a better work-life balance and she decided that time out of the spotlight would be best to spend time with her family, which is understandable.”

    This is consistent with what Forbes said on Twitter yesterday.


    • Golfnut says:

      Doesn’t quite fit with the fact that she was looking for the top job which wouldn’t have allowed her any extra time with her family at all.
      Clever girl putting some clear water between her and an administration I fully expect to be short term.

    • ayeinskye says:

      Doesn’t quite say that though does it, her words are “After 5 long weeks, I’ll be delighted to see more of my family” not that “I wish to spend more time with my family”, and who wouldn’t like to see her family after 5 weeks on the road or in planning meetings, it’s not a reason to turn down a job offer that is tainted

      • raineach says:

        It’s just spin by the party hierarchy, attempting to cover up the first of a series of mistakes by Humza Useless

      • UndeadShaun says:

        Or maybe after 5 gruelling weeks and having a baby just months old.
        She decided the time is not right just now, wait until baby is a bit older and maybe even glad she was not picked.

        Once babies are on solids it is a bit easier.

        I think those who have never been a parent or a mother know how demanding a months old baby can be, they are wholey dependant upon their mother. It is non stop and and thats just days, let alone baby waking up.

        Outside of the party and politics, people are human and have other demands. Sometimes we all forget this.

        Its maybe not that, but at the age her baby is it will be demanding as baby will want its mother and somtimes mother is the only one who can settle baby.

        And remember as FM she would be living in bute house with baby.
        As a minister she will not have that luxury.

        Maybe we should think about worklife balance for all of our MSPs who are mothers with young babies.

      • Golfnut says:

        No she didnt, Robison did that. Nor did I say that she did, what I said was that it Doesn’t quite fit with someone looking for the top job.

  57. Capella says:

    Pete Wishart says at 10:18 :

    What we need to see for the sake of unity is good jobs being offered across the whole spectrum of the party and those jobs, when offered, accepted.

    Good jobs. So stop turning down insulting jobs, unity unity and continuity.

  58. Capella says:

    Shirley-Anne Somerville and Michael Matheson have both arrived at Bute House. Looks like Philip Sim’s predictions are accurate so far. Unfortunately.
    I’m able to read The National’s live updates BTW even though I cancelled my subscription it doesn’t run out till the summer.

    Maybe the live updates are open to everyone:


  59. UndeadShaun says:

    I dont think thats what he said.

    It could also mean evenly offer posts across party

    But as neither of us wrote we will never know.

    We can just spin and speculate and delight westminster and the media.

    • Capella says:

      The media don’t need us to supply material for their headlines. The SNP are doing a sterling job themselves. Pete Wishart has form, from The Courier:

      Perthshire MP Pete Wishart quits SNP frontbench with scathing letter to new leader Stephen Flynn

    • Isabella says:

      “We can just spin and speculate and delight westminster and the media”

      Quite…there’s a lot of that going on.

  60. UndeadShaun says:

    Ill leave you with a Sun Tzu quote.

    “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak”

  61. scottish_skier says:

    Does someone have a list of the official hierarchy of cabinet positions?

    Given all the talk of demotions / promotions, I assume this does exist beyond FM/DFM?

    • Capella says:

      Wikipedia – Great Offices of State – needs translation to a devolved government of course – First Minister and Deputy First Minister at the top, then Finance, then Health and Social Care, we don’t have defence, then Justice (Home Office) and so on.

      According to a YouGov poll conducted in 2017, the British public view the three most senior Cabinet ministers to the Chancellor, the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, and the Secretary of State for Defence, with the office of Home Secretary coming in fourth place, and that of Foreign Secretary in just ninth place, preceded by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and followed by the Secretary of State for International Trade. The office of Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport was viewed as least important, with just 3% of respondents saying they viewed it as one of the most important positions


      • keaton says:

        Interesting article. I think those YouGov respondents are at odds with the “official” position, which definitely regards Foreign Secretary as senior to Work and Pensions.

      • Dr Jim says:

        Indeed Capella, the public cares about what they perceive, and the first thing they see is the leader, the FM, and whether some folk like it or not that job is 90% sales promotion of the stuff you’re doing
        Then we have finance, folk want to know in clear terms if they’re OK or skint
        Then health, targets were always a stupid and childish arrangement whereby the opposition is given the opportunity to challenge those missed targets that no government ever can possibly meet, because they’re a target to aim at and not an expected prediction of perfectness, the target idea is just a political game between parties to give themselves stuff to talk about and defend or decry for the benefit of public consumption

        There’s one job that’s equally or even more important than all of these jobs, and that’s press communication, because the media think they are the ones running the country on behalf of the public with their stock in trade phrases of need to know in the interests of the public blah blah blah
        If you want to run a country and government properly the first thing any party should do is cut out the journalists and the media, all they do is upset the population with distortions and lies anyway so why co-operate with them in the first place, just cut them out and only supply releases of what’s actually happening, nothing more, no interviews, no TV panels of blah blah blah, cut them out until they behave like responsible people, which might be never but who cares they are a destructive influence on the public in order to sell their bile, not informative in any shape or form

        Y’see that’s why I’d never make a politician, anybody who sticks journalist as a qualification after their name I’d take out and line them up against a wall, it’s not a job, they are parasitical creatures feeding off humanity while simultaneously making them sicker and more susceptible to the next strain of media virus creation, and all to make money from us and twist public perceptions the way they want them twisted

        The media is a parasitical virus and we need a vaccine Minister for killing it

        • Capella says:

          Unless you own them. The first thing the Irish did was set up their own newspaper. France funds newspapers to ensure some balance. However, that is a “reserved” matter here.

      • scottish_skier says:

        Ah yes, that pompous, up it’s own erse British sh*te. All about self promotion rather than the greater good. Guess I am very egalitarian so see all Scottish senior cabinet posts as equals, with all valued, and nobody ‘better than the other’.

        Of course there does need to be a leader (and a deputy to take over when they are not there). That’s needed for an effective team – the one that makes the final decision based on discussions with the team. The worst thing in the world in any team is having members more equal then others / walking around thinking they are superior – that just makes for the ‘me’ over the ‘us’. Although the media doesn’t help here with it’s talk around this.

        I think if I was offered a change in cabinet position, I’d not spit on it as some sort of demotion. But I might decide not to take it because the brief was not for me / I didn’t feel I was the right fit. That or just because I decided that the time was not right for the commitment it requires. Which are all fair enough reasons and don’t demean the post.

        • scottish_skier says:

          Just in case… I do understand Forbes gave the final reason (personal) as hers for stepping back / not taking a position in the new cabinet, which is not a huge surprise given her family situation, and of course the bile around the campaign from some would have made anyone think twice.

          It’s the British media slagging off posts in the cabinet as rubbish mainly.

  62. Alec Lomax says:

    A lot of Alba supporters posting today

    • Dr Jim says:

      They live in hope that all the SNP supporters will just swing right over to Alba in disappointment at Humza’s election to FM
      I have to break the news to them that that’s even more distasteful than voting Labour to most SNP supporters, personally I’d rather gnaw my own arm off before I’d do that

      Come back in oh 20 or 30 years when they’re a political party and I’m deid and we’ll talk about it

  63. Hamish100 says:

    Yeh – I think they are given 10 names each and told when, where and what blog to attack.

  64. Capella says:

    Shona Robison new Finance Minister as well as Deputy First Minister.

    • Golfnut says:

      Robison just told us that
      ‘ Independence will take as long as it takes to persuade those not already persuaded ‘
      Well, there’s arrogance and stupidity all rolled into one sentence

    • Dr Jim says:

      That speaks volumes as to the fix he’s just put himself in and the meanness of character that put him there

      He’ll not be forgiven or forgotten for this monumental arrogance and snidey approach
      As for Shona Robison, asked earlier about the agenda for independence she replied “It’ll happen when it happens”
      So the only difference between the SNP and the rest of them now is they’re not an English political party, other than that they’re just the same

      The backlash will be LARGE, I’ve written that in BIG in case anybody misses it

      • raineach says:

        I would prefer swift to large. The longer this team stay in office the more damage they will do. And they will be removed, it’s only a matter of when

      • Handandshrimp says:

        Shona said independence will happen when we persuade enough of the No voters. I don’t have an issue with that. It is self evidently the case that we need a majority, the bigger the better. What is more to the point is the strategy to promote the idea. That we will see in the coming days.

  65. Capella says:

    Philip Sim posts full cabinet list:

  66. Capella says:

    Surely there will be someone in charge of Education? Bottlebanks? Transport?

  67. Hamish100 says:

    So when is our conference to pursue Independence?🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    Westminster election – de facto referendum.

    It’s up to Robison as depute, and the silent MSP’s to now persuade enough people to vote for a de facto YES. If not, they have failed.

  68. Capella says:

    Again from Philip Sim:
    In response to a few replies – this is the full cabinet team, junior ministers (covering clearly-still-important briefs like transport, housing, local government etc) will be appointed at St Andrews House later this afternoon

  69. Dr Jim says:

    Humza is struggling and it’s only his first day, the team doesn’t want to be team loser under Humza

    The question is how many members are there today compared to last week?

    I’ll bet the loss of members is staggering, because like me I think they’ll vote SNP at every election because I and they won’t vote for an English political party in our own country, but I and they won’t finance a party that are avoiding the reason for which I and they joined that party

    Alex Salmond began as a Jaguar, Nicola Sturgeon the Starship Enterprise, Humza Yousaf begins as a battery Renault Twingo, and not many folk aspire to have one of those by choice

    They don’t go very far very slowly and nobody wants a lift in one

    • ayeinskye says:

      Sorry Dr Jim but you are being too kind to Humza, he is more like twin exhaust Lada with a sunroof compared to pprevious leaders, but I reckon there will be a steady trickle of members now, the SNP will be like the wee Dutch boy trying to plug the holes in the dyke, some will join other indy parties, some already have but most will be non political and will vote for teh SNP if they can be bothered getting off of their sofas like what happened in 2017 when a vote for teh SNP wasnt a vote for independence, I hope the numbers dont drop to similar to when Swinney was leader as the party will become more reliant on Westminster short money, and believe me, I am saddened at what is happening, it was needless, but this messstarted in 2016/17 when henumbers peaked at 126k

  70. Capella says:

    Well I’ve felt thoroughly underwhelmed since 2 pm on Monday and I feel even less whelmed today. Replacing Kate Forbes with Shona Robison as Finance Minister reminds me of the time Ian Blackford replaced Joanna Cherry as Justice under secretary with Anne McLaughlin. I don’t wish to be unkind but…

    I think I’ll go and do something more exciting like the ironing. I clearly don’t understand how politics works.

  71. Hamish100 says:

    … so should we still insist Westminster is a de facto referendum?

  72. craig murray says:

    I am an Alba member. This is the blog of Paul, it is not the blog of the SNP, and so long as Paul does not object to people commenting here, everybody has the same right to be heard.
    What Humza needs to do now is something that convinces the Yes Movement he is serious about Independence. A letter to Sunak requesting an S30, which he knows will be refused, doesn’t cut it.

    • Chicmac says:

      Renaming the party to ‘The Scottish Independence Party’ or ‘Independence First’ or some such name thus making the very reason for its’ existence titularly manifest, would be a great move but obviously that aint gonna happen.

      If it were, the Scottish electorate and those furth of Scotland would be in no doubt as to exactly what they were voting for at every election. It would also be highly interesting to note just who continues to serve a party thus named and even more interestingly, those who couldn’t.

    • Alec Lomax says:

      Who elects the leaders of the Yes Movement ?

  73. yesindyref2 says:

    Robison was the one who pushed through the GRR Bill in a truncated timescale before Christmas, and called on Westminster to withdraw the Section 35.

    As Finance Secretary without even the slightest financial ability, she would be able to authorise the millions needed for legal advice, taking the case to the Court of Sessions (Outer / Inner), thence to the UKSC and perhaps even to the ECHR over the next 2 or 3 years or so (if the UK is still in it that is).

    Same for any S35 on an incompetent bottle and tin deposit scheme, and any other Green foible like perhaps an overextended marine protection area preventing any leisure or commercial use of a 3 mile coastal zone. Maybe even including bathing. Perhaps making the whole of Scotland a national park and only allowing hill-walking by strict approval by the factor, Lorna Slater, while turning the M8 through Glasgow into a 12 lane cycle-track for loonie tunes Harvie.

    Scotland with 0.07% of the world’s population will of course lead the whole known and unknown universe who will bow in their admiration at our economic folly, that’s even if they’ve ever heard of us or know where we used to be.

    As for a general note, Yousaf has made sure nobody in his cabinet is able to challenge him on the grounds of more competence.

    You’ll have had your Independence then. And Scotland’s business economy in the past it shall remain, and inwards migration except as a second home. Clearances on their way again as Scotland’s young people flee to the former colonies for better jobs and far better working conditions, specially education, health and social services.

    3 days that put Indy 3 decades into the future at least, and put Scotland 3 decades backwards. 3 vengeance filled days.

    Over and out.

  74. grizebard says:

    Jeez, you don’t need to be in the “Murray and the Moaners” wee band of permanent antagonists to wonder at the belief that Shona Robison could ever make a better Finance Secretary than Kate Forbes. Is some kind of party purge happening? No more “broad church”, it’s “my way or the highway”? If so, this is the kind of inward-facing dirigiste politics that sunk the Labour Party in Scotland. And the last thing we need in the run-up to the coming UKGE is an ongoing SG f-up to give Labour its desperately longed-for chance at rehabilitation.

  75. scottish_skier says:

    Personally, I’m going to keep on promoting Scottish independence in my posts. If the comment I want to make will not assist with that goal, then I won’t post it. If I want to mouth off about how much I dislike Yes parties, their leadership, attacking their supporters / others personally for their voting choices, there are other forums where I can do that, such as those operating out of the south of England. 🙂

    If Scots want indy, they’ll have it, and no FM could mess it up sufficiently to stop them. 🙂

  76. deelsdugs says:

    Oooffff…hell’s teeth and ffs you lot! Yer playing into the jaws of the nasty, anti-Scottish, Scottish press…We can all rant, rave, shut the shit out, it’s still gonna be there, for how long, who knows. But, if we’re all bickering, or is this political ‘discussion’ with horns and forked tails, it creates that insidious fracture of weakness, something the nasty anti-Scottish, Scottish press feed their frenzy on.

    Humza may not be some of ours choice for the change, nevertheless, it is he who is there, for now. He also has a huge following of young Muslims – the voters of now and the future. Young voters who want independence. It may well be there are inter-family squabbles but when it comes to the crunch, they will stick together. No toys, prams and huffs.

    Somehow, and something, has to be the way out, the way forward, from the westminster english stranglehold of Scotland’s determination.

    Remember that wee Roxy Music tune…go on…you can…

    • grizebard says:

      I’m basically in agreement with you there, and was prepared (see previous posts) to give the new leader a chance to prove his mettle, but confidence is being severely tested by what is now looking like a purge of anyone – including major talents like Forbes and McKee – who doesn’t agree with a “continuing” party line. And that evident preference for loyalty over ability has clearly made a lot of SNP members unhappy, far more than those expressing their deep reservations here.

      • scottish_skier says:

        Purging is when you kick everyone you don’t like out of your cabinet you don’t like.

        Reshuffling is when you move people around, bring some in, and return some to junior posts or the back benches to give others a chance.

        A new leader may do both – hopefully more of the latter. Forbes would have made big changes I imagine too. After all, her supporters were demanding this, i.e. an end to supposed ‘continuity cabinet’! 🙂

        I personally don’t think offering someone a senior cabinet post could be called ‘purging’. Certainly not if they then turn it down for family-work life balance reasons.

        I am left wondering if, after the gruelling leadership campaign, Forbes would have taken on the post of FS again, especially after hearing her reasons for not doing so, and that she’d not seek to be FM in the future. Maybe the really didn’t like what she just went through. It is cruel world up there. Certainly, the post offered would have been well suited to more time with the family, and less in Edinburgh.

        But it’s a pity she’s not going to be in either.

        • ayeinskye says:

          S-S, Katte couldnt touch rural affairs with a barge pole, her constituency is already up in arms at HPMAs and its still only going through the consultation stage, if ny SP on the West coast accepted that, they would be out in 3 years, no ifs, no buts do not pass go, too many jobs are at risk. Kate has already spoken to constituents and hears their worries, its why she brought it up last week, even those who are retired like to get out on the water, sailing,etc which would be prevented if an HPMA was introduced.
          Its not something that will affect those out in the country or in a city,but its a worry for anyone working on the water,

        • Dr Jim says:

          Work life balance is shouty loud code for GTF, Humza is lying from day one and everybody knows it, he’s screwed it up and he’s done it with the arrogance of a man who thinks more of himself than the party and country he serves

          At this very moment in time there are people who have been in the SNP longer than Humza has been alive, me included, we have and are resigning in significant numbers
          I was a lowly non active member now except for leaflets and delivery and such, but there are business members and influential members who’ve chucked their cards in over this behaviour, I expect many more to follow, and such may be the exodus the party will be forced into not ignoring us, the SNP is our party for a purpose, Alex Salmond did his part in creating it a force, Nicola Sturgeon created world recognition of the SNP and Scotland’s case against England’s dictatorship

          Today in Westminster the union party relaxed into their comfy chairs poured themselves a Brandy and lit a Hamlet

          Humza Yousaf has left Scotland with only one option to regain our independence now, and that’s to cut the politics out of the situation to take what we demand and stop asking for democracy
          If you have to ask, it means you can’t take, if you won’t take, there’s no point in asking a dictatorship what they refuse to give, and they’ll refuse to give until the end of time

          The challenge was never GRR, the challenge is was and should have been the English Supreme court’s decision that Scotland does not have the authority to end a voluntary union if we so choose

          The people of Scotland are under the impression that devolution was an English Labour party concept and they delivered it, it was not now nor ever was the English Labour party, it was the former EU then known as the EEC who stated that for Britain to ever join the Common Market more democracy by way of devolution would be required

          Scotland is in exactly the same position as Northern Ireland, we are not a colony or territory of England but we are being treated as such by an autocratic undemocratic English government for financial profit and or international trade directed and syphoned to England over which we have no control
          The one and only reason Northern Ireland has a peace agreement or a protocol and a bunch of people running around trying to please them is there are people in that country who will blow things up in England and the English are terrified of it
          Scotland on the other hand is a total pushover, so we get pushed over

          That is the case for independence, not piddling political gamesmanship over a trans person or a hospital window pigeon
          Scotland is financially neutered because of England, it’s that simple

          Today’s young people have no understanding of what Scotland was like before the SNP, Scotland was black run by Labour under the Tories, when I say black, it was black with no hope dirt and corruption of the same kind as is current in England right now
          The famous brown envelope was the standing joke about Labour where everything was paid for to somebodies relative contained within that famous brown envelope
          Labour was the Scottish cancer and it’s still infecting us today with the hatred for us for finding them out

          Humza Yousaf just made my country vulnerable to that again
          and some folk wonder why I resigned? I’m not paying for that, Id rather buy some of what the Northern Irish have with my money…….The guts to take the English on instead of accepting them as the arrogant masters they are

          • ayeinskye says:

            I have always said independence from Britain is never given, it has to be taken, unfortunately there are few ways it can be taken, UDI is one way, and the other way doesn’t bear thinking about but……. I will leave that as is, I don’t want a 2am chap on the door from Special Branch 😀
            I resigned in in 2018, I had no inkling what was going tohappen in the future, but I was sick of being taken for a mug, asking for a s30 that was never going to be given, hearing about just needing another mandate for a referendum, watching Nicola go to Pride parades and Anti Brexit ones but not once attending a Scottish INdy march, and now this car crash in slow motion occurring, yet I was blamed just because I was Alba, this happened during a DM exchange on Twitter and then blocked for stating the bloody obvious, if the SNP had done what it said on the tin, and went for Independence, neither ALba nor ISP would have been formed two years ago but I liked being a part of a movement that believes what I believe, that Scotland is the best wee country about and should be indepn=endent,sowhen Alba formed I joined on day 1, I had been swithering for a few months previously about the ISP but in the end the other party won out, and it has been doing something for activists of allparties and none, it promoted the Wee Alba Book, similar to the successful Wee Blue Book, and folk of all parties attended the event all around the country, and hearing Alex again got a fire going in people.
            Shit has happened in the past, and it needs left in the past, I have had a few barbed comments on here aimed at me because of my allegiance, yes we were angry at the SNP, just a bit earlier than others but its all for the same reason, inaction on independence, last week I said I hold my hand out in friendship, and was called the enemy, I repeat that same offer, hopefully it wont be rebuffed again as can be checked in my comments here, I haven’t been obnoxious nor argumentative, I am sure if I had, Paul would have blocked me,lets get her done(and by that I mean Independence, nothing else)

            • Dr Jim says:

              I’ve said before I’m sure there are some genuine people in Alba who think and believe what they’re saying, but if Alba ever wants to be a political party Alex Salmond cannot be in it or it will stick exactly where it is, nowhere
              He was the man, now he’s the toxic man and he’ll stay that way
              Folk can quote court judgments till they’re blue in the face, the public have judged him and found him guilty of everything on every count they can think of and some they can’t, and they just will not vote for him in the numbers required to keep a political party alive
              The Stuart Campbell involvement from before its inception killed any chance of credibility and is still killing it, and no matter how reasonable anybody tries to be the country has eyes and ears, they see and hear what social media screams at them

            • Calum says:

              Well said ayeinskye. All genuine independence supporters should be united against the common enemy – a pipe dream perhaps but it’s a case of united we stand ….
              My worry about people leaving the SNP is how are the present mob ever going to be replaced by people whose first priority is delivering independence.

        • Jim says:

          ” I personally don’t think that offering someone a senior cabinet post could be called purging. Certainly not if they then turn it down for family-work life balance reasons”

          Could you be any more obtuse if you tried?

          Everybody knows the senior cabinet positions, Finance, Justice, Health and Education. These are the positions that are the most important in running any country.
          If we can’t balance the economy, can’t protect people under the law, can’t look after the population’s health and can’t provide an education for our citizens then we would fail.
          The offer of ‘Rural affairs Secretary’ is a massive demotion from Finance Secretary and you well know it. So Yousaf has just installed Robison, who knows nothing about finance, over Forbes who has a degree from Oxford in finance, delivered a Scottish budget in 2 hours notice following Derek Mackay’s embarrassing resignation and has been the best Finance Secretary we have ever had.
          If that is not a purge on those who stood against him then I don’t know what is. And if you believe for a nano second that Kate Forbes turned it down for work life balance then you have to be the most gullible or deliberately obtuse person in Scotland.
          If Kate Forbes wanted a work life balance she would not have stood for the position of FM
          What you are trying desperately to do here is to justify, by twisting facts, your vote for oblivion.
          Within 2 days Yousaf has most certainly lost the Western Isles and probably a fair chunk of the highlands, who will now go back to voting Lib Dem, not to mention having lost the rest of Scotland with his pathetic claim that he felt he was not welcome in Scotland, REALLY! Scotland, one of the friendliest, most welcoming countries on the planet. Yeah, really good way to gain votes.

          If you decided with casting your vote that the marginals needed representation over and above independence when these things would have happened with independence in the due course of time then own it, embrace it, shout it from the rooftops, but don’t come on here here with mealy mouthed excuses about why Kate Forbes should have gracefully accepted a slap in the face so that you can feel better about it. She was very graceful in accepting the result and congratulated Yousaf on his victory. Such a shame that it wasn’t payed forward.
          But perhaps that is the calible of the man you have just voted in.

      • Handandshrimp says:

        To be fair, purge is what Labour are doing to Corbyn and Momentum. To be offered a slightly less attractive (but still Cabinet) post is not ideal but it is not purging. Kate is still in the party and at 32 has plenty of time. She may well be leader in due course. Leadership is a heavy burden and few can thole it for more than a few years.

        While I would have preferred Kate to stay at Finance I kind of get that if Humza had stuck with everyone in the same posts he would have really got hammered with the continuity club. It does need to be a different feel and pace. Time will tell if his choices are the right shapes for the right slots.

        I’ve seen a lot of criticism about our leadership election on other places but would they have said much different if Kate had won? There is some serious hatred towards the SNP from the conspiracy types. These people are not in the party, had no vote and have no intention of playing nice. I’ve also seen disturbingly racist undercurrents in some of the posts too. Perhaps Alba has done us a service in providing a home for those of intemperate spirit and reactionary inclination. Other than Alex Salmond I have no idea who does what in Alba and neither do I care. I don’t know most of the shadow cabinets in Labour and the Tories either. Alba’s obsession over our party is telling. I suspect that they aren’t all that interested in their own party they would rather be running ours.

        That’s about as much as I’ve ever said about Alba or likely to ever say again. A second independence party sounded like an OK idea but the bile and hatred is like something from the Judean Popular Front.

      • deelsdugs says:

        Grizebard, have read all the previous and everybody else’s comments. There’s a whole heap of us not very happy.
        You mention loyalty, and that seems to be the fundamental ‘choice’ for those seeking to keep their well paid positions. Loyalty, is also the key component that added to his votes.
        If only we had a crystal ball, but I will tap in to latent psychic abilities and suggest his time in office will not be to his liking nor for the longstay.
        The ‘cheeky chappy’ display and sycophantic words in the comments such as ‘Humza, you’re looking tired’ that came through via the online three contenders zoom discussion, reveals some of the voters aspirations that he is their friend.
        I believe, from an English Muslim friend with extended family in Glasgow, he is ultra popular and on an almost ‘best mates’ political friend with the the former FM.

        Either way, I’m on a different mission with the Scottish ministers, Transport Scotland, Stewart Milne, Muir Homes, Perth and Kinross Council and land grab, and I am going for the jugular, all around.

        • deelsdugs says:

          May I just add to this, Kate would have been a fantastic choice and would have opened up inclusion for the wider reaches of Scotland instead of the centralisation in a city that’s as far away from Shetland, Orkney, the Outer and Inner Hebrides, and most of the Highlands as that bloody place in the sooth.

  77. Capella says:

    Paul says above:

    However Kate Forbes gave him a very close run and it will be important for the new leader to ensure that both she and Ash Regan are offered important posts in his new government. That is vital in order to begin to heal the divisions within the SNP and the wider independence movement

    Completely agree with this assessment and very disappointed that this vital step appears to have been missed.

    • grizebard says:

      Exactly. (Something that some here seem desperate to wordsmith away.)

    • scottish_skier says:

      I personally think rural affairs to be very important post, and not just as someone who comes from and lives in the countryside. Land reform is one of the most pressing issues in Scotland. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve explained how completely artificial our ‘wild’ landscape is to people. It’s a massive economic and environmental issue intricately tied to our prosperity, climate change challenges etc. I think Forbes would have done an excellent job here, and she was a very good choice.

      That said, I totally sympathise with her wanting to spend more time with her family, especially after the horrible treatment of her by the British media.

      • Calum says:

        You are perhaps deliberately missing the point. Rural affairs is important but was a slap in the face as it was demotion and then to replace her with Robison.

        • scottish_skier says:

          Forbes didn’t see it that way. She said she had decided to spend time with her family after what had been a very gruelling campaign where, as we all know, she suffered a lot of abuse for her religion and comments around that early on.

          I found her very honest and so I’ll take her at her word on her reasoning.

          You personally might like demeaning Scottish government positions, but that’s not for me. I think them all of equal importance.

          • Calum says:

            I never demeaned any Scottish government positions as you well know so kindly cut out the patronising crap.

      • Golfnut says:

        What part of being a poison chalice for an islander didn’t you get.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      She’s impressive even in defeat, with a display of utter stateswomanship some would have been wise to copy.

    • Alan D says:

      An offer was made to Forbes, who turned it down. The notion that she should have been made Deputy First Minister is fascinating. After she said she would probably not have Yousaf in her cabinet, it became almost impossible for a cabinet led by one to contain the other.

      That is before considering the different policies they campaigned upon, which are incompatible to some degree. Forbes would be in a very difficult spot if challenged about her support(or lack thereof) while the Scottish Government is doing the exact opposite of what she would have it do.

  78. Legerwood says:

    Just posted on Twitter by Kate Forbes. Please read it.

  79. Capella says:

    The National lists, for posterity, the full ministerial appointments at the close of play. Jamie Hepburn is the Minister for Independence. I’ve never heard of him but wish him good luck:

    Who are the ministers in Humza Yousaf’s government? The full list


    • Capella says:

      Here is the full list of every minister and Cabinet secretary in Humza Yousaf’s new Scottish Government:
      First Minister Humza Yousaf

      Minister for Drugs and Alcohol Policy Elena Whitham

      Minister for Independence Jamie Hepburn

      Minister for Cabinet and Parliamentary Business George Adam

      Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance Shona Robison

      Minister for Community Wealth and Public Finance Tom Arthur

      Minister for Local Government Empowerment and Planning Joe FitzPatrick

      Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care Michael Matheson

      Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health Jenni Minto

      Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport Maree Todd

      Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills Jenny Gilruth

      Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise Natalie Don

      Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans Graeme Dey

      Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Just Transition Màiri McAllan

      Minister for Transport Kevin Stewart

      Cabinet Secretary for Wellbeing Economy, Fair Work and Energy Neil Gray

      Minister for Small Business, Innovation and Trade Richard Lochhead

      Minister for Energy Gillian Martin

      Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity (who will also work alongside the Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Just Transition) Lorna Slater

      Minister for Zero Carbon Buildings, Active Travel and Tenants’ Rights (who will also work alongside the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice) Patrick Harvie

      Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands Mairi Gougeon

      Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture Angus Robertson

      Minister for Culture, Europe and International Development Christina McKelvie

      Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice Shirley-Anne Somerville

      Minister for Equalities, Migration and Refugees Emma Roddick

      Minister for Housing Paul McLennan

      Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs Angela Constance

      Minister for Victims and Community Safety Siobhian Brown

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Jamie Hepburn apart from his own time at Holyrood, and quite active I think, then supporting Yousaf’s candidacy, is married to Julie Hepburn, an SNP activist who stood as a candidate for Depute against McEleny and Brown (who Yousaf unceremoniously dumped today). I thought she was OK at the time, wanting an early referendum (I was no longer a member after the 3 years and had no vote).


      She also wrote a puff piece praising Yousaf in the National in February which was a bit disappointing for a regular article writer, and part of the biassed ruination of the National, Scotland’s GRRB and Yousaf supporting newspaper.

      As a married combo they might be a little silver lining in terms of Indy, if allowed to do their thing.

  80. Golfnut says:

    I’m sorry, but the wait and see trope on here is misguided. Even as non members you should have been aware of the damage the NEC has caused to party unity and unauthorised changes to the party constitution. No way 1) should this have become a public media circus, this was an internal matter and 2) the election should never have taken place before the special conference.
    These two issues prevented serious probing questions from members on how candidates intended delivering conference decisions. This to my mind deliberately ( allowed ) the candidates to waffle their way through questions relating to independence. The reality is a new leader has been elected, we have no idea how they will progress our need for Independence and we have no idea whether the party will even have a conference and perhaps worse if they will abide by the decision of conference.
    Aye, let’s wait and see.

    • Capella says:

      What do you suggest?

      • Golfnut says:

        Sacking everyone in the party involved in this debacle, leaving both the party membership and the Yes movement in limbo with still no coherent response to the SP. I’ve little doubt that had party members had their say prior to the election, candidates would have been forced to provide a detailed strategy on the way forward which may well have motivated the 20,000 + non voters to get off their backsides.
        I haven’t decided yet whether to resign membership or get booted out at our next branch meeting.
        Anyway, a goodnight to you.

  81. Capella says:

    And finally, a sour assessment from one of the right wing blats, the Spectator:

    Humza Yousaf’s cabinet will do little to unite the SNP

    Scotland’s First Minister Humza Yousaf has risked widening the split within the SNP by effectively ousting Kate Forbes from the cabinet. Having dispensed with his leadership rival, Yousaf has now appointed those who will make up his top team – and insists that his choices demonstrate a party united. But for all his warm words, Yousaf appears to have done little to reach across the SNP divide. Instead, he has opted to reward those who have stayed loyal to him throughout his campaign, such as Shona Robison and his campaign manager Neil Gray. Those who backed Forbes are nowhere to be seen.


    • Eilidh says:

      Bloody Hell we are now quoting that well known Independence supporting newspaper The Spectator now. Whatever!!!

      • UndeadShaun says:

        Im astounded.

        Spectator is an out and out tory rag

        You dont get more establishment than that.

        Im starting to wonder if we are being played by mi5 plants.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Well, by that token, here’s a quote from the Yousaf supporting National, about Yousaf:

        His first public photo-op was with the two Scottish Greens whose infantile attempt at blackmailing the SNP membership during the contest was consistent with their conduct since they first got the keys to their ministerial cars and expenses.


  82. Eilidh says:

    I have popped in here a couple of times tonight to see if things are any cheerier. Nope it’s worse the rants are becoming more frequent and the amount of very obvious Alba supporters posting made me wonder if the blog had been hacked and I had ended up in WOS. I get it, practically no one on here likes Humza and same folks think he is doing a really bad job and has been really cruel to Kate and Ivan etc.
    It looks like me,my brother and possibly Skier will be the only members of the Snp by end of the year so their next election campaign will have to be totally cheapskate. I knew I should have stuck to my principles about not ever joining a political party. This comments section and The National’s feels like every really bad Unison union meeting I attended roled into one. Why don’t folks get it over with and depose Humza and install Kate as FM and then peace and happiness can resume. Meanwhile outwith this netherworld I have spent some time trying to think of ways to help a friend whose son died suddenly in the most tragic of circumstances. He leaves a wife and very young children and a very insecure financial future for them. They may even end up homeless. Their situation is hardly unique, things like that are happening all over Scotland every day. Arguing about politics sorry I no longer give a stuff. I am away back to watch Star Wars stuff to cheer myself up

    • yesindyref2 says:

      very obvious Alba supporters

      Is that because they say:

      Although a lapsed member,I have voted SNP at every election since the 70s .
      Unless the election next year is a plebiscite one (which it won’t be) I will vote Alba, if they have a candidate , or if not, abstain.
      I will vote SNP at Holyrood, assuming Kate stands, but I’m disgusted by Ian Blackford’s support for Humza.I will vote Alba, if they have a candidate , or if not, abstain.
      ” (an ex-SNP member)

      As for voting SNP in future elections, I don’t know if I can, even if it’s for Kate in the constituency, and Alba or ISP 2nd depending on who stands, but I won’t be voting for IB, that is for sure, it will just be a spoilt vote from me unless Andy Wightman runs as an independent. He was the only Green I felt had environmental issues at heart .” (An Alba supporter who votes SNP 1)

      Well I certainly will not be tempted to join the Alba revenge party” (never an Alba supporter)

      I am an Alba member.” (an Alba member)

      So that’s 2 and possibly 3. Plus a lot of posts saying there’s a lot of Alba supporters here.

      And contrary to popular opinion, this is NOT an SNP blog, unless WGD wants it to be, quite a few posters here belong to no party at all.

    • Capella says:

      It,s good to talk.

  83. Golfnut says:

    fb had a clip up of Salmond, just one of many, where he was asked what Humza should do. As an aside if the SNP had wanted a continuity candidate they should have just asked Salmond back because frankly he could have written our candidates scripts. Anyways, asked about the SNP’s policy of joining the EU he came out with approximately the following.
    SNP should reconsider because we’re out of the EU and it will take us 5 yrs to get back in and our biggest market is…… guess
    I switched off.

    • ayeinskye says:

      He actually said that Scotland should go for the EFTA in the meantime until we could get back into the EU, as the EFTA/EEA would only take three months and would allow access to the EU which makes sense in the short term

  84. I am concerned after reading some of the comments today. I have been a long term SNP member since 1974.My membership lapsed for one year because Brexit forced me out of my Scottish bank account,thus my deposit to the SNP was cancelled..Because of a bereavement and preparing to move back to Scotland,I lost my membership for one year.As a consequence I lost my vote in the leadership election.If I had a vote,I would have voted for Kate Forbes because I consider her to be the best candidate to lead us towards independence.while I recognise the ability of Humza,I feel that it makes no sense to appoint a leader that is less popular than the leader of the Labour party.However,since he has won,I will support him,as Kate Forbes will.

    What concerns me is a statement by a Humza supporter that the membership voted for what they wanted.I think that it is more accurate to recognise that a small majority of the members voted for the winning candidate.That does not automatically mean that they approved of all of his cabinet choices.I understand that he has not appointed Kate Forbes.I think that statements about how she attacked Humza at hustings misses the point.The smart thing is to bring your opponents onside and to harness the talent that they possess.That makes sense in Kate Forbes case,since she has the vision and ability to persuade many people who voted no,to change their mind.Also,if the winning candidate is to unify the party,he needs to do something to stop people leaving the party.While,I am disapointed by the result,it makes no sense to leave the party.The only people who benefit from that are our unionist opponents,who must be very happy with the current state of affairs.

    Dr William Reynolds

  85. UndeadShaun says:

    Confindence in westminster and UK press at all ti e low.
    More trust in EU than UK gov or parliament.

    “The UK was 23rd out of 24 countries in terms of confidence in the press. Media in Mexico, Italy, Russia and Brazil all enjoyed more than double the level of confidence”


    Thats quite an achievment.

  86. Golfnut says:

    Email from Humza telling me that we will work together towards independence and that we will build a movement,
    News flash for Humza, we have a movement, maybe try using it.

    • Old Pete says:

      Same, not very inspiring. Still leaving in October but will continue to vote SNP as I have always done. Hopefully my daughter’s will see Independence in their lifetime.

  87. Alba Laddie says:

    Lesley Riddoch gave a masterclass in delivering an eloquent, reasoned performance on Debate Night last night where she took down the Tory stooge on numerous occasions…

    She reminded Michael Marra that Labour’s “nationalised utilities” offering isn’t really nationalised, and just for good measure also stated that there a lot of Labour voters in Scotland sympathetic to independence too, you’re just not allowed to hear about them on the orders of the Labour leadership.

    This was in sharp contrast to Ian Blackford’s lame appearance on Newsnight where he let Ian Murray spout outright lies about an independent Scotland going back into the EU without challenging him.

    Yousaf could do a lot worse than pick up the phone to Lesley Riddoch to get her to offer coaching to SNP representatives on how to engage with the wider media.

    They’re far too frit for my liking.

    • barpe says:

      Totally agree, I watched Debate Night, expecting the usual ‘pile-on’, but found it watchable, due mainly to Lesley Riddoch.
      She was a shining example of how we should be explaining Indy, clearly and calmly, she “owned” that stage.

    • Aldo says:

      I agree Alba Laddie,I thought she was excellent in putting her point across and SNP representatives would do well to learn from her.
      I must admit I thought Karen Adam was very good as well-we need more of this

    • Isabella says:

      Yes Alba Laddie, Lesley Riddoch really knows her stuff and is a force to be reckoned with. I listen to her weekly podcast which is always insightful, she is a great advocate for independence and we’re lucky to have her.

  88. UndeadShaun says:

    It should have been Peterhead as its the best site in UK for carbon capture.
    Instead UK gov choose a site in England


  89. Bob Lamont says:

    I’m not a SNP member, but within minutes of Yousaf winning the leadership election the “Wur doomed and marooned” brigade were out in full force, every twist and turn since examined through the lens of conspiracy, some almost as bad as comments to HMS James Cook articles.
    What on earth happened to perspective ?
    How does this behaviour look to those as yet undecided on Indy ?

    The SNP are under a new leader elected by it’s members, that’s all there is to it – What that revision brings to the political table over the next few months will be interesting, but no more than that.

    Support for Indy lies in the public’s hands, the more there are and the louder their voices become the more impossible it becomes for even the BBC to ignore.
    THAT is how we win Indy, irrespective of who is in government.

    • Albis says:

      Well said. I am so disappointed by many of the negative comments on here and while I will continue reading Paul’s excellent articles, I won’t bother reading the comments any more.

      • UndeadShaun says:

        If this continues, Maybe Paul should disable comments for a bit until some people calm down.

        People should get over it, election is done, no amount of tantrums on this blog will change the result. Either take up a new interest, go to WOS or SGP. Or be positive in your posts rather than negative.

        Some forget he does have health issues and reading some of these comments, I would not be suprised if he thinks its no longer worth the hassle.
        As currently blog comments do not do anything to further independence. Probably the opposite.

    • Tatu3 says:

      I agree. I voted for K Forbes and disappointed Yousef won. I will still keep my membership and give the new Scottish government a chance. We have to show unity or the unionists will have won

    • Isabella says:

      Couldn’t agree more Bob.

    • barpe says:

      Well said, Bob, the indy movement will go forward regardless of one change of leader.
      Indy is a state of mind , and I believe that once someone understands it there is no going back to accepting colonisation.
      It’s still coming ‘for a’ that’ !!

    • Eilidh says:

      Wholeheartedly agree Bob. I had already decided to read the comments less frequently and post less here and on The National . I will always read Paul’s articles though

  90. Handandshrimp says:

    I had a quick look at SGP and as far as I can see the Humza and the current cabinet are worse than The Black Death, WW2 and Global Warming all rolled into one and we are all doooomed. This from someone who did not have a vote in the proceedings because they has already decided they didn’t want to vote SNP.

    I’m sorry, but perhaps we all need a bit of time to reflect. Of course I thought Kate was the better choice and in truth I would have preferred Nicola to have stayed a bit longer. However, we are all still the same people and the aim is still the same. We work with what we have and who knows what might happen. Nothing happens in a vacuum and world events, financial crises, wars and God knows what else could change everything in a moment.

    In short we need to calm down to a convulsion. For those very vexed take a back seat for a bit to see how the journey goes and then let’s see where we are in a few months time. Nothing is going to change by getting an ulcer over an outcome passed.

  91. Hamish100 says:

    For those persons who don’t like some comments-including mine please skip by.
    I do it it with some of yours!
    Blogs are about views and opinions after all. As long as they are not abusive or offensive and WGD will decide ultimately.
    I agree that with some other blogs why individuals are allowed to spew their bile and are allowed is a mystery to me. Probably reduces their hit rate as folk are turned off.

  92. Old Pete says:

    Humza about to face his first FM questions. Hope he does well, fingers crossed.

  93. Golfnut says:

    I think venting is not only good for the individual but should be welcomed by the party. I don’t think it will be, not from what we have heard so far, and there is little doubt that party members were denied the opportunity to at the very least provide opinion and create consensus on the way forward out of this union. How the prospective candidates proposed implementing that consensus would have had no little influence on who was elected. Top down dictat is Labour and tory, not SNP at least not until now.
    Opinion of an angry member.

  94. Capella says:

    Listening to FMQs to see how well HY deals with the opposition and so far he has been good. Unfortunately there are so many people yelling from the gallery that they are now suspended to get the gallery cleared. Very annoying.


  95. Capella says:

    On the topic of “Wheesht for indy” or its 2014 variation “Shut up and eat your cereal”, I think it is reasonable to expect some criticism of the SNP and the way is has dealt with the variety of issues and priorities within its own organisation. Those of us who resigned have not done so on the spur of the moment in a fit of pique because our candidate didn’t win.

    But this isn’t an SNP blog it’s a pro independence blog and although Paul has asked us not to moan about the SNP leadership we have been in an interregnum for some weeks. A new leader has now been appointed so from now on I will wait and watch.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, and some of us actually live here and are directly affected, as opposed to posting from far off countries about something which doesn’t directly affect them. And they tell us we should shut up! That’s like Westminster, but even more sleekit.

      Another thing is that we are the noisy ones, many don’t bother, but talk with their feet, their vote, their membership. Their increased feel of dispossession.

      In my 3 years of SNP membership from Sep 2014, the first meeting (every month) had maybe 40 members, the very next one just 20, and from then on when I managed to get there, maybe 15 including office bearers politicians and committee (I was co-opted). That’s out of over 300 members after the surge, 5% of us were active. Independence was never on the agenda though I tried to get it actually put there. It was all about elections and leaflets and calendars.

      I can’t even say we spoke (with our differences) for the other 95%, no idea in fact, no survey of them to find out what they thought. I did try to do one (!) but was told no. Just the appointed delegates going to the conferences to vote on behalf of ALL the branch members. I could have gone to one as a delegate but unfortunately was busy with business.

      So it seems there are those who want to wheesht even the 5% who raise their heads above the parapets.

      No wonder the leadership disnae huv a scoobie.

      Anyways, I was off with a sense of relief at not feeling obliged to take part any more, but was so shocked at the 3 days of dark deliberate dastardly disastrous doom I couldn’t stand down. Now I will. Good luck!

      See you on the other side.

      • Capella says:

        I had a similar experience. First, great enthusiasm and willingness to participate in the cause. Then, gradual realisation that you were regarded as a foot soldier in someone else’s party where the promise of members’ democracy didn’t apply. Finally, the relief of stepping back and recalibrating.

        There’s a lot of us out here!

    • wm says:

      Capella, Never under estimate the English/tory media they give the SNP/YES movement the National newspaper worse treatment than they gave the Daily Worker and the communist party back in the 1940/50’s, half of the lies they print isny true.

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