A two-way street

A guest post by Samuel Miller

Respect (Noun)

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements. 2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others. 3. a particular aspect, point, or detail.

Lot of talk of respect doing the rounds in 2018. Seems the powers that be may have caught on to the idea that the United Kingdom is anything but united these days. Who knew?

Talk of respectful debate, respecting democratic will, respecting results, respecting agreements and so forth. Especially from politicians and mainly those who don’t seemingly respect anyone or anything very much themselves. We’ve all seen the state of the Commons debates by this point, yes? The braying, howling, arrogant and condescending pie fight at the heart of our system of central government. So, yeah. Respectful. It appears, to any casual observer, yer actual politicians have suddenly developed a social conscience. (Now don’t laugh. They’re trying to be all sincere)

Apparently even the Queen managed a reference in her annual Crimbo day commentary t’boot – “Even with the most deeply held differences, treating the other person with respect and as a fellow human being is always a good first step towards greater understanding,”

Which is nice and all very laudable of course. If however, you voted YES in the first indyref, or remain in the EU referendum? You’re probably not feeling a great deal of reciprocity on the whole respect agenda thingy. In fact you’re probably feeling ignored, intimidated, insulted and downright infuriated. You feel helpless and powerless. You feel very much cheated and almost certainly… disrespected.

And now? Now it seems those who created your misery are looking for your respect, your tolerance and your understanding. It’s a pure mystery so it is. Oh, whilst of course still intimidating and insulting you on a daily basis because… reasons.

It also kinda helps, on a personal and communal level, if it truly is a reciprocal arrangement. Certainly if you want people to live and work together with any degree of harmony or unity. Just a wee pointer for the odd policy gonk who happens by.

But is it really respect and tolerance they desire, or silent compliance and blind acceptance? Remainers (remoaners), supporters of Scottish independence (vile cybernats/tainted/separatists etc.), the Scottish government (generally Essenpee bad), the EU (furren bullies), immigrants (also furren and don’t go there) and all other agencies that aren’t behind the binary choice omnishambles of Westminster politics and its cheerleaders, aren’t exactly unfamiliar with the respect agenda meted out by the political class and their chooms in the media.

The bods suddenly asking for all this lurve and cuddliness would be the same political class who have made a mockery of the electoral process. Who sit in a house that is renowned for its venal practices and rampant party and inter-party backstabbery by the by. What they do for a living is commonly referred to as a dirty game. Some of the more cynical readers might say there’s a reason for that. So far as many people are concerned, currently it’s the place where the ‘art of the possible’ and the art of persuasion by debate has gone terribly wrong in the worst way imaginable. Its inhabitants and adherents support a system of patronage and politics that has arguably legislated against the welfare of its own population fer Gawd’s sake. They’ve more than also arguably made the UK ‘a global joke’ and now they apparently need your help to provide that joke with a punchline. They require a societal unity they’ve spent decades undermining in search of the voter demographic du jour. You can see where some folk would regard that as feeling very much like adding insult to injury.

Y’see, most people don’t have a problem with respecting and tolerating another point of view. They don’t have a problem seeing another human being for who they are and what they represent. They just want to get along with others and toddle through their lives with the least amount of grief possible. How and ever, should they be expected to sit on their hands in perpetuity while others with less respect or tolerance dump all over them from a great height?

Mibbies they practitioners of the dirty game should have thought about that whole respect thing BEFORE they set about using their narratives to fracture society and alienate demographics. Before using the media and their interpretation of the art of the persuasion to determine who was a fit and proper human being (voter).

Might be they should have thought about a lot of things and a LOT sooner than the fag end of 2018 and a looming conclusion to the Brexit process.

No. It seems to me that the greatest source for problems over respecting the views of another, showing tolerance and understanding, come from the top down. From those who should have been an example and set a tone, but who use intolerance and disrespect as a tool to gather political and corporate advantage.

Thing about the ‘R’  and ‘T’ words though? Many aspects of respect and tolerance are earned. They’re not an automatic due. More importantly? They have to mean something to those involved. There has to be trust. It can take a long time to earn either and a heartbeat to lose both.

It’s a sad irony that those who are perceived to foment intolerance and disrespect, require the exact opposite of those very qualities in others in order to thrive themselves. It also might be said that this time they’ve pushed their demands for the good will of those others too far. That their own insensitive and callous actions over many years have worn down the respect, tolerance and trust of too many who were supposedly in their care.

Anyone out there feel that either the Conservative government or their honourable opposition have put the work in? Are they even remotely capable of walking the walk down that two-way street?

I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if we found out the answers to those questions in 2019.

 

Our host is currently taking a well deserved leave of absence to be with his husband at this time of year. Normal banter should be resumed after all the festivities have concluded. I would like to take this opportunity to wish all readers, both regular and new, ALL the very best for a grand new year when it comes. Hopefully, 2019 will see more than a few Christmas wishes granted. 😉 (winky thing)

65 comments on “A two-way street

  1. epicyclo says:

    The queen treated Scotland with scant respect when she signed our returning powers over to the English parliament.

    She knew about the delaying tactic, and obviously approved it. All she had to do was to suggest they waited a few weeks for the result of the court case.

    How can we respect her after that? She is no longer worthy of the the title Queen of Scots – she obviously sees herself as Queen of England.

    She has destroyed the case for the monarchy in Scotland.

    • ArtyHetty says:

      Is she ‘queen of Scots’, I don’t think she is or has ever been. You are correct about her connivance against Scotland though!

      • aLurker says:

        @ArtyHetty

        > Is she ‘queen of Scots’, I don’t think she is or has ever been. You are correct about her connivance
        > against Scotland though!

        This is one of those unassailable _facts_ that all independence supporters should be aware of and equipped with.

        The current queen travelled by train to Scotland the day after the English coronation to have a separate Scottish coronation. This is a historical fact: there even exists photographic evidence of it.

        Just because it was deliberately hushed up and thus most people are entirely ignorant of these machinations of the British State and Crown, is no excuse for prolonging their deception.

        – as she prevailed upon by her advisors that this was the only legitimate way to rule as the queen of scotland.

        • Julia Gibb says:

          Did she wear the Scottish Crown and follow due process for Coronation?

          Not that it matters to me as a Republican anyway.

          • aLurker says:

            Julia Gibb says:

            Did she wear the Scottish Crown and follow due process for Coronation?

            As I understand it, Yes and Yes.
            Her army of flunkies did everything they thought was necessary to ensure that the coronation could be justified as complying with tradition and was thus ‘legitimate’ !

            I am no historian, but to anyone who has read even a little of the ancient and established traditions from Scottish society it is obvious that it was only after the Norman conquest (of England) and the introduction of the alien notion of ‘the divine right of Kings’ or the absolute supremacy of Male premojeniture, that the imposition of a non Scottish, non elected Hereditary Monarch could even be attempted to be proferred as ‘normal’.

            e.g. see:
            the Celtic tradition of Matrilinearity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality

            the Gaelic tradition of Elected Monarchy:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanistry

    • Georgina Clarke says:

      Spot on!!

    • Fillofficer says:

      THIS is the crux
      She has shown her hand
      Purring no more
      End game

    • Stuart Mcnicoll says:

      The Crown, is one of Scotland’s best weapons, the withdrawal bill shenanigans were sheer and utter stupidity, until we know for certain we must assume that the Queen was forced to give consent.

  2. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Respect is something that the Westminster regime do not do they simply do not do respect.

    The gang darn sarf are wholly focused on maintaining the status quo allowing our privileged classes to continue with their comfortable lifestyles regardless of the cost.

    I challenge anyone to illustrate any instances of respect from Westminster to anyone.

  3. […] Wee Ginger Dug A two-way street A guest post by Samuel Miller Respect (Noun) 1. a feeling of deep admiration for […]

  4. Jan Cowan says:

    A superb article, Sam. Thank you.

  5. ArtyHetty says:

    Excellent, thank you Sam.

    Have a wonderful Hogmanay everyone at WGD, and yes Sam, Scotland’s wishes have not been respected to say the least, let’s hope as you say, 2019, grants a wish or two though! 🙂

    All the best for the New Year.

  6. Alba woman says:

    Excellent thoughtful piece. You cannot expect respect if you have quite deliberately disrespected others….it is not a realistic expectation….

    We are a nation which has been treated with such disrespect that is jaw dropping….Our Parliament has had its powers well and truly diminished in the overwhelming attempt by an oligarchy to impose its will upon us.

    I do not wish to be run out of Europe to be left at the mercy of such folk as Teresa May and her unelected advisors. I do not want my grandchildren subjected to such people.

    Hopefully wishes and dreams of escape will come true. I have had some dreams come true so I know all is not lost.

    .

  7. susan says:

    A very thoughtful and incise post Macart. More power to your pen! Happy new year all, when it comes.

  8. A rhetorical,Sam?
    “But is it really respect and tolerance they desire, or silent compliance and blind acceptance? ”
    The Queen sits wityh a gold piano in the background urging respect, when the UN report that 15 million of her subjects live in poverty, and 1.5 million in destitution.
    We were fleeced out of tens of millions to pay for the weddings of two of her brood this year alone.
    In the 21st Century this woman, by an accident of birth,controls everything worth anything in the UK and over 1/3 of the world to this day.
    They talk about invoking ‘Henry VIII’ powers to rush through ultra Right Wing Free Marketeering British Nationalists Laws to ‘take back control’ and reduce Scotland wales and N Ireland to militarily occupied colonies of England once more.
    Empress Elizabeth, Empire 2.
    She has the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force at her back, and May is calling up 3,500 reserves to impose Martial Law from March 30th ’19 onwards.
    The Queen is ‘Defender of the Faith’, a title bestowed on Henry VIII by himself so that he could divorce and behead as many wives as he pleased.
    She has a Lord High Commissioner who presides over the Clergy at the CoS annual General Assembly Bash.
    Her face is on English Money, and post Brexit will be on Scots notes too, I have no doubt.

    They are arguably the most pampered family in the Universe.

    Her ancestor Henry 8 didn’t even wipe his own backside.

    There was a ‘Groom of the Close Stool’ who did the old boy’s dirty work.

    Even after the Union of the Crowns the royal ablutions was a ceremonial ritual.

    “Under the Stuarts, the office morphed into ‘Groom of the Stole’, with its implications of dressing the monarch rather than helping him visit the privy. Depending on the individual monarch, the role would also have devolved onto offices like Groom or Lord of the Bedchamber. The last person to hold the title of Groom of the Stole was James Hamilton, 2nd Duke of Abercorn (1838–1913) who served the Prince of Wales, but the job did not continue when the latter became King Edward VII.”

    So as recently as just over a hundred years ago there was this bizarre ‘pump’ and ceremony.

    I seem to recall reading that the Old Queen Mother insisted that her subjects left the room walking backwards head bowed; even Prime Ministers.

    Who are they trying to fool?

    ‘Respect and tolerance’?

    I’m going to lose weight next year.

    No, it’s not a New Year Resolution; it’s Brexit.

    During WWII UK citizens developed into a nation of healthy specimens because of rationing.
    Lots of home grown carrots and turnips, nae sugar or butter.

    In less than 90 days time, England and Wales will go on their own version of the F A Diet.
    We won’t.
    Now I know that there are those among us who want Independence and to remain in the EU who are big fans of Lizzie and the Windsors.
    My sainted mother, as a young woman, sat on the edge of her seat watching the queen trooping the colours on her black and white Grundig, and never missed the Christmas speech.
    \I’m sorry, I cannot understand this in our modern world.

    • My mother watched the ceremony on her B/W Grundig TV, the queen did not sit astride a TV trooping the colours.

      This is the time of year when my gas, electricity, car and house insurance suppliers issue annual renewals:
      In the madness of December I am assured that I need ‘do nothing’; my policies and energy deals will be renewed automatically if I can’t be bothered reading the small print.
      How thoughtful.
      May’s Brexit Deal used the same ‘you need do nothing’ strategy.
      She’ll be back in January assuring WM bloated jet lagged, benchfillers that they need ‘do nothing’, trust her, she’ll sort the backstop deal breaker out, honest.
      The World must be laughing at the Mouse That Whimpered.
      A Guid New Year tae yin an’ aw, and mony may ye see.

      • wm says:

        Thanks again Jack, for your comments needless to say I agree with (nearly) every comment.All the best to you and the rest who read Paul and Sam’s posts.

    • deelsdugs says:

      Indeed Jack. It’s jaw droppingly nauseating.
      And excellently put Sam.
      May 2019 be a new year, new start, indeed…

    • Richard says:

      I agree eith your sentiments, but a wee point if accuracy. The title of Defender of the Faith was not given by Henry to himself, but by the Pope following the publication of a book ‘written by’ Henry supporting the Catholic faith somewhat before ge decided that he needed that divorce.

    • Les Bremner says:

      Your comment about the ‘Groom of the Stole’ reminded me about the fact that the Cabinet is a sub-committee of the Privy Council. I always wondered why it was named after a tall structure with a door on the front.

  9. mogabee says:

    They take our respect for granted and deem us ignorant if we do not reciprocate. Well, to hell with that!
    Sam, have we come to the end point yet? My patience is exhausted.

    The last Hogmanay in a dependent Scotland. :D:D Slàinte mhath xxx

  10. Interpolar says:

    I never failed to be astounded the way T-May pushes through her will in Thatcherite style with no thought or respect for the positions of others, and when people (understandably) got upset, sheds an emotional tear as to say how hard she is trying, how nasty everyone else is and how we should therefore all come together in unity, without taking as much as a step in anyone else’s direction.

  11. diabloandco says:

    Perfect Sam – as always !

    And may I also applaud Jack’s contribution. I used to stand for the NT at the end of a theatre show while watching the rest of the audience hasten away to buses and pubs – no more!

    • Aucheorn says:

      Many, many years ago, when I was in the RAF I was charged with Disrespect to the Crown, I can’t remember what I had done but I do remember the 14 days Jankers.

      I think it was shortly after that, that I first joined the SNP. 1959/60.

  12. xsticks says:

    Well, none bar the terminally blinkered unionist can possibly fail to see how the whole of Scotland has been utterly disrespected in this brexit debacle. There is no doubt the tories are planning a political coup that will prevent Scotland becoming independent. At least until the oil has gone.

    2019 will be a turning point. Of that there is no doubt, but like spin the bottle no-one can yet tell where it will stop. There are many possible outcomes. The trick will be navigating to the one we want through the very nasty rapids. Either there will be an extension to A50 (I think unlikely unless the tories can negotiate a get-out clause on the new EU tax rules) or they will go for the no-deal and will use the Supreme Court to emasculate Holyrood and Scots Law. We will need to be ready to move quickly when the time comes. And come it will. I suspect we will all know when we get there but probably not before.

  13. Andy Anderson says:

    Very good Sam, thanks again for your ability to keep Paul’s seat warm. A good article.

    Life is about respect be that in the family, at work or in government, anywhere where people are. As your article points out, sadly that is not always given.

    2019 I feel may get a bit scary politically.

  14. Macart says:

    Update on trust and respect.

    HERE.

    • Andy Anderson says:

      Great, this will be on BBC Scotland on Monday after an hard interview with Richard Leonard asking him why his dept of UK Labour lie to the electorate. Shameful.

      • Macart says:

        THIS is the entire point of the post Andy. Respect is earned. Trust is earned. Understanding requires patience and honesty. Then those epic (fill in as appropriate) pull a boneheaded stunt like this.

        I do not trust Labour. I do not trust the Libdems. And clearly, I do not and NEVER have trusted the Conservative party.

        So when they ask for respect, trust, understanding and follow it up with bullshit stunts like this? Can they supply me and the wider public with a reason as to why we should?

        In their own time like.

  15. Saor Alba says:

    I do not like you BBC,
    The reason why, for all to see,
    Is your lies and lack of decency,
    I do not like you BBC

    I do not like you BBC,
    You are not worth the licence fee.
    Indeed, you have no honesty.
    I do not like you BBC.

    I do not like you BBC,
    You’ve lost your sense of purpose, see
    and you have no integrity.
    I do not like you BBC.

    • The BBC ?
      Don’t mince your words, Saor.
      They are on Wartime footing now.
      I fully expect sandbags, barbed wire, and Homeland Security reservists in the Pacific Quay car parks as we run out of asthma inhalers, toilet rolls, and Ayrshire farmers are forced to let mountains of crops rot in warehouses, worthless because of cheap GM imports from Trumpland.
      The Thought Police have taken over our Communications network now.
      Winston Smiths on camera, in print, steadily reminding us that Scotland is shite (Hutcheon today) while Mighty England is thriving already in the World of Free unregulated trade.
      Expect another ‘Royal’ event in late winter, be it another wean, an engagement, or funeral.
      ‘!984’ and ‘Brave New World’ are required reading as part of the Induction programme now.
      The pointless 90 seconds repeated every half hour from Scotland during 3 1/4 hours of Whitehall Brainwashing put out as BBC Breakfast ‘News’ will get more frantic and hilariously Scotland is Shite in January and February.
      Great wee sonnet.
      May I add the rhyming couplet at the end?

      “This thought fills us Scots with shame,
      That fellow Scots defile and lie about our wee hame.”

      • Saor Alba says:

        Thankyou Jack, for your incisive thoughts. I love reading your thoughts and comments.

        I gave up the TV licence in disgust after the Scottish Referendum and have not watched TV since. They asked for my reasons, which I freely and fully gave them. This was a decision taken as a family of four and not imposed on anyone. There was total agreement and the improvement in lifestyle was immediate.

        Your additional couplet at the end is very appropriate. Grateful thanks.

        Saor Alba.

        Bliadhna mhath ur!

  16. I’ve exchanged a few e mails over Christmas with a mutual friend and WGD addict, who shall remain nameless, but who is thoroughly enjoying themself (check out the twisted pronoun of anonymity) in SE Asia over the holidays.
    Latterly I discussed the tradition of First Footing, which I doubt is prevalent in Viet Nam, although I stand to be corrected.
    Our neighbour done us the great honour of being our First Foot for decades now, although with the passing of years,bringing up families, years of Blue Red and Yellow Brit Nat Rule, he is still tall, but definitely no longer ‘dark’ haired, more ‘pepper’ now, and ‘handsome’ in a more rugged sense than in the ‘nineties.
    He brings the traditional tokens of good luck each year, black bun, coal, and whisky.
    My wife, originally from the Emerald Isle (I’ll miss her when the Men in Black from Home land Security bash in my door at 11.00 pm on the 29th of March load her onto a cattle truck to be whisked off southwards to Cairn Ryan for immediate deportation from GB II, who’s going to cut up my meat?) still marvels at the custom of opening up the front door to let in the New Year, while opening the back door to let all the tragedy, illness, and bad vibes of the old year out into the receding darkness of the last night of the Year Just Gone.

    I think that we can all agree that 2018 has been quite a year.
    The black bun bakery, the whisky distiller, the coal mine could not have produced enough Good Luck to counter the absolute disaster that the Fourth Year of the New English colonisation of Scotland turned out to be.
    Our back door would need to be as wide as a barn door to let out the badness and evil of 2018 Brexit and Brit Nat madness.
    As I write 500 odd English MPs are still whooping it up on their Winter Break.
    The White Cliffs are eroding and tumbling into the Channel, and nobody Down There gives a damn.
    A dozen dusky types ‘flood ashore’ on the South Coast, and it is 1066 and all that.
    England is being invaded.
    Bliddy Furriners besmirching their green and pleasant land.

    What would have been the reaction if Jesus and his 12 Followers turned up in Seven Oaks?
    England is in crisis because a handful of desperate folk try to sneak in.
    As I write, 2018 has just over 16 hours and 35 minutes to go.

    Let’s make 2019 the greatest year in Scotland’s history.
    Look after yourself and those close to you.
    Now’s the time, and now’s the hour.
    A Guid New Year Tae Yin An’ Aw, a Happy Guid New Year.

    Thanks to Paul and Sam for yet another brilliant space to visit friends and fellow Scots..

  17. Macart says:

    Wishing all readers a peaceful and prosperous New Year.

    All the very best for 2019 folks. 🙂

  18. MI5 Troll says:

    I am feeling positive for 2019. I think it could our year. Nice end to the year Sam, thanks. Now I am off to do a few traditional end of year celebrations.

  19. bedelsten says:

    Thanks to Paul, Sam and Jack respectively 😊. A much abused term during 2018. And it will be further abused during 2019. Whatever happens, a guid new year wherever you are.

    In China, 2019 will be the year of the pig. In the country to be called (with the handy acronym) the Former United Kingdom, I suspect 2019 will be the year of the squirrel . It will be year when any trivial excuse will be used to distract. It will snow and that will be SNPbaad. There will a drought and that will be SNPbaad. Similarly for the rain which will follow the drought, and the occasional gale will, because it is Englandshire, be a major event. There will be a wailing and gnashing of teeth, which will be SNPbaad. A lack of imported medicine, the resultant pestilence and the four horsemen will be SNPbaad. Vegetables rotting and unpicked will be major event in Englandshire, whereas, up north, the media will shrug its shoulders. There will be leaves on the tracks and it will be SNPbaad. Someone unmemorable doing something unremarkable somewhere uninteresting will be a major event providing it can be spun as SNPbaad. There will be new oil discoveries, but you will not read or hear about that because, instead on one windless, cloudy day the wind turbines did not turn and the photovoltaics did not cascade electrons, which was all SNPNBaad. Lord Lucan riding on Shergar will make a guest appearance. There will be royal baby, and there is a whiff of formalin up Pall Mall – just in case.

  20. Macart says:

    Worth reading folks.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-one-weve-waited-for/

    A quick reminder and worth a thought.

    Process – procedure – legal action and consequence. Scotland is co-signatory to an international treaty. Its people are the sovereign power in the land and what they say goes. If a party is elected to power and seeks a specific mandate, and if that mandate is granted by the people, then that party and government can and must act on that instruction.

    A specific mandate was sought four years ago and denied by a slim majority of our population. The government was instructed by that slim majority to act within the constraints of devolution. This they have duly done. In the teeth of sustained and mounting opposition on all sides, they did get on with the day job and have governed well (within the obvious constraints).

    In subsequent manifesto they have made it clear that only a significant movement or injury to the constitutional settlement or status quo by one party or events would allow them to revisit that result and seek a further mandate from ALL of the population. Once again they will act on the instruction they are given. But it is ALL about mandate sought, instruction given and instruction carried out.

    YOU are the sovereign power in Scotland, not the state. And only a majority of Scotland’s electorate can instruct the Scottish parliament to end said political treaty. Popular sovereignty isn’t a serving suggestion. You either believe in the will of the people, or you don’t. You either support the premise that the government is your servant, or you don’t. You either want an administration that believes in your rights and that one in particular, or you don’t.

    Right now they have a triple lock on the mandate to ask that question as and when they deem manifesto conditions have been met. As yet (though under imminent threat), we are still EU members.

    Should that situation change? It follows there must be a legal and constitutional consequence.

    If folks want to avoid the full effects of any Brexit, or avoid being dragged into such constitutional carnage ever again, then mibbies voting for self government is the route of travel worth considering. Like I say, worth a thought.

    You instruct your government when they have an opportunity to seek a specific permission.

  21. Andy Anderson says:

    Andy Anderson says:
    2 January, 2019 at 5:01 am
    UDI may be needed but not before the people have had an opinion. We need to take the No voters with us by being democratic. I see the path ahead like this.

    First we need to wait until events in London are clear, no point in starting a formal Indy campaign for a GE to be called in the middle of it. So at the earliest we kick of a campaign in the summer, maybe even early 2020. If and only if we get say 60% Yes, enough to say that we have a clear majority as a sovereign choice by the people do we say to London goodbye.

    If they say No we have a formal election again using the first past the post part of a Scottish parliament election or a Westminster GE. If in one of those a majority of MSP or MP’s are from Indy supporting parties we say goodbye again.

    If they still say No then we declare LDI. A Legal Declaration of Independence is possible for two reasons, firstly we can demonstrate the majority of the people want it and secondly Westminster has on several occasions lately broken the Treaty of Union.

    The Scottish Government has for years now been talking to the UN and many other Governments making them aware of our situation meaning that we are likely to get support internationally for our actions. This is important.

    Finally we must be ready to take non violent disruptive steps across the whole UK if things get a bit nasty. Some of us may need to be locked up. Hopefully they will see sense in London before this is required.

    Patience is needed for a wee while yet.

    • Andy Anderson says:

      Of course if we cannot win a referendum by a good majority that is the end. So please do not wait for NC to call a formal campaign get converging now.

      • Andy Anderson says:

        Converting….

        • Och,Andy, the poor old camel, its hump aching with a teetering pile of Last Straws, has kicked the battered old Brit Nat Better \together Now Is Not The Time tin can further down the dirt road for the last time, and collapsed with exhaustion and ProudScotBut betrayal at the tethering post outside the Indyref Last Chance Saloon.
          I doubt that you’ll get many takers willing to ‘kick off a campaign in summer’ or even more incredibly, wait around until 2020 to campaign for Self Determination.
          I hesitate to suggest that you underestimate the Catastrophe that is about to envelop Scotland in a matter of days now.
          We go now; now is the time.
          We are feckin done with sitting on our hands and being obedient little boys and girls oppressed by our English overlords, and their Collaborators Up Here.
          We are on the verge of a Great Rage NOW, Andy.
          If you lock yourself in your cellar until this time next year, you may emerge into a Brexit expedient Wasteland.
          WE start NOW.

          • Andy Anderson says:

            I fully understand the no deal situation Jack. If a No deal then Indyref2 could kick off day in April. However if May gets her deal through then little will change as they negotiate with the EU for a trade deal. In this scenario we would follow EU rules to Dec 20

            • Andy,
              England would be following EU rules.

              Us, not so much.

              For us, it would be the ‘material change’, leaving the EU against the express wishes of the Scottish People, which would be the catalyst to instigate Indyref 2, now, not after the Transition period in January 2021, which the Brit Nat WM regime had negotiated.

              It would be folly to sit on our hands from April until December 2020 without firing the Referendum gun.
              WM has proven that they are capable of riding roughshod over Devolution.

              The ‘Supreme Court’, thought up by Blair, does what it says on the tin.

              It is WM’s Iron Heel hiding under the guise of an ‘independent’ judiciary.
              Remember the Power Grab?
              WM can destroy Scottish Agriculture, Fishing, and whisky now with impunity.
              USA GM crops, Kentucky Scotch, and cheap Pollock from the States will flood our market because we are no longer protected by EU Trade deals.

              In 20 months, WM would have ‘taken back control’ right enough.

              Holyrood would be reduced to a parish council, emasculated by Henry VIII sweeping changes, to give ‘control’ of England’s colony back to the Establishment in London.

              We must go now.
              No argument, no more delaying tactics.
              WM will reject May’s Deal, will slap down No Deal, then. well, the In Fighting breaks out Down There.

              I am not prepared to sit on my hands for another 2 years.
              And I am sure that there are a couple of million just like me, at least.

  22. Grafter says:

    Agree with Jack C. above. As for the SNP, no more sitting on the fence playing along with the Westminster pantomime. The Establishment’s agenda to emasculate Scotland is plain for all to see and waiting for more Brexit type austerity to turn the tide in our favour is a mistake.

  23. Macart says:

    Huh! Apparently when folk see how leaving one close political union is so difficult, (see under Brexit), folk should avoid the thought of breaking up the treaty of union. I see this is going to be Britnats go to meme then.

    ‘Course that is NOT the lesson of Brexit that the peoples of Scotland should focus on. The lesson is that Westminster’s cack handed management of the EU ref, the result and the two and a half year negotiation period is how NOT to handle the dissolution of agreements.

    Still, its nice of the dears to point out what an utter clusterfudge looks like and hold their hands up to THEIR culpability.

    That is the main and inescapable conclusion to draw from their meme, right? That the system and practice of politics they sold to our population is solely responsible for the misery we’re currently experiencing. Just in case they hadn’t thought their reasoning through like. 😎

    You don’t hold a referendum without the ability to deliver on the outcomes. Leave NEVER had the ability to deliver their best of both worlds scenario. They had NO agreements from and NO POWER or AUTHORITY to ask such agreements from the other twenty seven nations of the EU. There was no plan in place to maintain the economy, mend any division within society, ensure security or parity with existing legislation… nothing. Just a slogan or two and a shit load of darkly emotive marketing.

    Neither did Mr Cameron’s government make preparations in the event of such a loss tbf. He didn’t think he needed to I’d imagine. NOTHING was put in place by anyone to follow through on a Brexit result. Cameron gambled a population’s lives and life chances and the Eurosceptics and disaster capitalists behind the leave vote had neither the political wherewithal or the intent to deliver on their pledges is the long and short of it.

    Bit like indyref and BT’s VOW. Empty rhetoric and sloganeering. No attempt at delivery. No real intent behind their pledges and assurances. HMG’s and pro Westminster parties focus since 2014 has been a punishment exercise for Scotland’s population.

    Unless of course, in the midst of ongoing austerity legislation and the Brexit omnishambles, we’ve blinked and missed the constitutional and economic stability, olive branches, zooper cuddly respect and better togetherness. Oh, and all the teeming benefits of the bestest onion in the history of onions. Lost count of all the bullshi… (cough).

    No. No, I don’t think we’ve missed anything either. Aaand I think I know what a government looks like that actually does have a negotiating plan and the power to deliver on its outcomes by this point. (shrugs)

  24. Andy Anderson says:

    Some of you may have read a few of the words made by back stabbed Gove earlier this week to the NUF. They were not impressed.

    I live on a farm. Davy the farmer who owns the land around me today opened the conversation earlier with the words “see this fuc**** Brexit”. As an aside he have gone from No and Remain to Yes and changed from Labour to SNP. One more vote for freedom courtesy of our Brit Nat opponents.

  25. Macart says:

    THIS>>>

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/taking-back-control/

    Also this…

    HERE

    Are we CRYSTAL clear yet on what voting NO and Brexit means?

  26. Kenzie says:

    Sam, Jack, Andy et al Have you rad Grouse Beater’s latest essay? Interesting food for thought.

  27. Guga says:

    If Unionist politicians in the English parliament, as well as Unionists in the Scottish parliament wonder why the people don’t show respect, tolerance and understanding towards them, perhaps they should consider the fact that these same liars, crooks and charlatans show nothing but contempt towards the people. They are total strangers to the concept of truth, they lack any comprehension of the word honesty and they couldn’t care less about the needs or desires of the people.

    These politicians are only interested in preserving their well paid jobs and their large expenses claims, which they do by supporting their particular parties whose main aim is to gouge tax revenues from the people, and their friends in business and large corporations whose main aim is to profiteer from the people.

    As to the English government, they have no intention of allowing Scotland to become independent again as they make so much money from stealing our money and resources. They do a “Goebels” by spreading propaganda (the big lie) that the English subsidize the Scots, whereas it is the Scots who subsidize the failing English state. This is how they can afford large scale projects like the M25, Crossrail and the HS2 (to name but a few). They will also want to continue to keep their nuclear weapons in Scotland and nowhere near any English towns or cities. They will try to enhance their grip on us by attempting to strip the Scottish parliament of all its powers.

    The time is very, very near for us to announce the holding of a new referendum on regaining our independence, and, no, we do not need the permission of the English government to hold any such referendum. We have a legal right to self-determination under international law.

    There is an old Chinese curse (May you live in interesting times”. These times are already here.

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