All the way through the campaign we were assured that leaving the EU didn’t necessarily mean leaving the customs union or the single market. The Brexit vote was won for leave on the very narrowest of margins. You’d think that would mean that the government would attempt to reconcile those who voted to remain, and would seek a form of Brexit which was least likely to exacerbate a deep and bitter division. I would hope that if Scotland voted for independence by a similarly narrow margin, that the Scottish government would seek to reassure No voters and would ensure that they were included and their representatives were participants in the independence negotiations. But this is the UK, and in the UK the winner takes all and the loser can go hang. The UK still hasn’t grasped the distinction between democracy and majoritarianism.
As soon as the Brexit vote was in, the Conservatives decided that what it really meant was that the country wanted the most extreme, the most self-harming, the most destructive Brexit possible. It’s rather like expressing the wish to see more of the world, and then being catapulted onto the surface of the Moon, where you can catch the briefest of glimpses of the entire planet Earth in the microseconds before the fluids in your body start to boil in zero pressure, all the air is sucked out of your lungs, and you freeze solid in the minus 173C temperature leaving you isolated and alone in the void for all eternity. You’re seeing more of the world, that’s what you voted for. And as an added patriotic bonus, your face will go various shades of red white and blue before you lose consciousness.
The Secretary of State for International Trade, Liam Fox, once boasted that a trade deal with the EU would be the “easiest in human history” to negotiate because the French need us to buy their wine and the Germans need us to buy their cars. This sort of wisdom and insight explains why the government which the disgraced former defence secretary inexplicably remains a part of wasn’t making contingency plans for the UK falling out of the EU without a deal.
Now Liam has changed his tune, and is saying that it looks increasingly likely that the UK’s Brexit bus will crash out without a deal, and admits that it’s a strong possibility. This is of course, according to Liam, entirely the fault of the EU for wilfully refusing to grant the UK all the benefits of EU membership without any of the annoying obligations that come with it. This is because the EU figures that in the post apocalyptic wasteland of a UK in a no deal Brexit, inhabitants of the UK will be too busy fighting one another over the last remaining stockpiles of Pot Noodles to worry about French wines or buying a BMW.
Of course what this is really about is Liam and his fellow Brexists getting their excuses in early. If, as anyone who isn’t wearing a Union fleg blindfold can see coming, Brexit ends up as an unmitigated disaster, Liam is determined to make sure that it’s those Germans with their towels on the sunloungers who take the blame for it.
In Liam’s universe it’s certainly not Liam’s fault. It’s certainly not the fault of all those Brexit fanatics who swore blind that the UK could leave the EU and still enjoy unfettered access to the EU’s single market without having to sign up to freedom of movement and those other EU freedoms that they didn’t like. It’s certainly not the fault of a British Conservative party which has spent the past two years arguing with itself about a series of positions that the EU had already stated were unacceptable, instead of spending their time working on a Brexit which might actually work in the real world. It’s certainly not their fault because they’re British, and that means they’re plucky, and everyone in Europe looks up to them, because of Dunkirk and Vera Lynn. So it’s not Liam’s fault then. Oh no.
Meanwhile the official Opposition in the House of Commons ought to be scoring massive political points against a government which is presenting them with a target the size of a minor planet, which is not coincidentally the approximate size of Liam’s ego, from a distance of about six inches, which also not coincidentally is the approximate distance of the vacuum to be crossed between Ross Thomson’s ears. But no. When it’s not abstaining, Labour prefers to tear itself apart over internal disputes, because there’s only two things your average Labour MP hates even more than the Tories, one’s the SNP, and the other is another of your average Labour MPs.
However even in the highly unlikely event that the Labour party was able to get its collective act together, it still wouldn’t be resisting the Tories and their insane Brexit. That’s because, for reasons which have never been satisfactorily explained, Jeremy Corbyn is every bit as committed to an insane Brexit as Liam Fox is.
Right now, the only thing keeping Theresa May in power is that her MPs are even more terrified that Jeremy Corbyn might win a snap General Election than they’re afraid of the damage that a chaotic Brexit might wreak. But there are those in the Tory party who are tempted to allow that to happen, and then a weak and chaotic Corbyn government can take the public flak for a catastrophic Brexit while the Tories and Ukip who inflicted it upon us can blame Labour and blame the EU for the mess that they’ve been instrumental in creating. Then a hard right Tory government could sweep into power a couple of years later and destroy the tattered remnants of the UK’s public services, trash what’s left of the devolution settlement, and complete the transformation of the UK into a unitary state with a low wage economy that acts as a tax shelter for the wealthy. There’s your British values for you.
Now it is possible that none of this could happen. It is possible that everything might turn out just fine. All things are possible. It is theoretically possible that Liam Fox is going to wake up one morning, look himself in the mirror, and suddenly realise that his politics have been based on a selfish mendacity, then he’ll make a public apology and devote the rest of his life to unpaid medical work for a charity. But that’s not likely to happen either.
All that the UK offers Scotland is the back seat in a multiple collision. We get to look on helplessly while others decide our fate. The choice of remaining a part of the UK or independence is the choice between helplessness, or having a voice and an influence in determining our fate. It’s the choice between being catapulted to the Moon, or remaining firmly grounded on planet Earth. It really ought to be a no-brainer.
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Wee Ginger Dug 
Agree with your logic Paul. This is what has happened and is happening.
I believe Labour gandees support Brexit as it will allow them to nationalise some industries. In the EU this cannot be done.
I heard a nutter in Perth last week mouthing of to a pal that it is the EU that is making it difficult for us. How we can live in the same physical world but perceive it do differently amazes me.
Ok in 2014 the sovereign people of Scotland voted to remain part of the UK . In 2016 the Tories decided to have another referendum where the sovereign people of Scotland voted to remain in the EU . Westminster acknowledge the sovereignty of the Scottish people and its now written in Hansard , so why do we need another referendum ? We the sovereign people of Scotland have chosen the EU , democratically , the union is after all voluntary so said a Scottish Tory referee . Or am I missing something ?
Eh? You sure about that Andy?
https://www.anothereurope.org/lets-be-clear-nationalisation-is-not-against-eu-law/
Well exactly. That’s why I said that Corbyn was opposing membership of the customs union and the single market for reasons which have never been satisfactorily explained. Least of all by Corbyn.
I stand corrected.
If countries in the EU cannot have nationalised industries, how is it that electricity in France is produced and distributed by EDF, aka Electricité de France.
Moon landing has more credibility than Westminster and its space cadets….
The anachronistic British ruling class has always made compromises with itself to protect it’s interests. Until now.
The current political leadership in England has taken leave of its senses. Shock therapy is now the only cure for them.
What England needs is a means of sweeping away the current mal administration of their realm. Without a purge, the current Tories will ruin them. If the English people don’t rise up to forestall them taking this dark path, they’ll soon be repealing the laws against serfdom. I’m kind of joking but it’s a nervous humor.
Scotland’s independence is the exorcist they need to banish the Brexists for the foreseeable future. They should be embracing this path, not fighting tooth and nail to prevent it. The alternative is a dystopian future with Jacob Rees Mogg as the narrator.
That is it … exactly. It will take the shock of us leaving to uproot the mess at Westminster and give England a chance of a fresh start.
As the old joke goes:
‘What’s the last thing that goes through a flies head as it crashes into your windscreen?
Its arse.’
There will be no leaving the EU with No Deal.
The Money Men and the global industrialists will not allow this to happen.
I have a sense that Whitehall will rescue the SNP Proposals for Scotland in Europe from David Davis’ bin, dust it down, delete all references to ‘The Scottish Government’ from the Document and insert HMG instead, and present the SNP Customs Union/ Single Market deal as their own.
I doubt that the xenophobes in Labour’s ‘Heartlands’ voted to leave and were aware that it would be the Blue Tory Government that would negotiate the terms.
But strangely nobody on the Remain Campaign trail from the Red and Yellow Tories ranks pointed this out to the cloth cap and clogs folk in the North of England, did they?
Corbyn is an old style Marxist, friend of the USSR hater of Europe. He’s a Commie, and proud of it.
Of course he backs May and her Darling Duds.
May and Corbyn are twa fleas aff the same dug.
Jezza is a champagne Socialist who gets a nosebleed if he travels further North than Watford.
The 48% who voted Remain in England are not now a resigned defeated rump moaning:-‘Oh just get on with it’, as many pundits declare in the Unionist Brit Nat press and TV.
‘The British People’ did not vote to leave. Just over half of them did, without the Leavers having a Plan A to implement when they ‘won’.
Just under half voted to Remain. There will be riots in England as Brexit bites.
There will be shortages if the impact of the two days of the Beast From The East snowstorms are anything to go by.
Two days of frozen weather and the Supermarket shelves emptied.
Paul, I don’t know how often we have to discuss the Eurmageddon that awaits us all before stubborn BritNat ProudScotsBut will sit up and take notice.
We Scots citizens shall have our final say through the ballot box.
I have no doubt that Scotland will say Yes this time, and resoundingly so.
Late summer, as our Southern neighbours crawl back to work from their holidays in Spain and Greece,will see the beginning of the rumblings and grumblings which will rise to a frantic crescendo in October when the Brexshit really does hit the fan.
We must get ready now before the lights go out all over England.
I have a question. The policy of the Official Opposition in Westminster on the EU negotiations rests on six tests. It seems reasonable to observe that the satisfaction of these six tests represents the Official policy position of the Official Opposition to EU membership.
Which one of the following scenarios would satisfy and meet the criteria and provisions contained in those six tests:
– A No Deal Brexit?
– A Hard Brexit?
– A Soft Brexit.
– No Brexit?
Or..the 51st State of the good ol’ US of A.
That is clearly Fox’ and Boris’ option.
Another option may be that Engwaland becomes a US protectorate like Puerto Rica, or Guam, or Samoa.
Watch out for Taco Bell and Cracker Barrel Fast food franchises spring up all over England in the EU Exit Transition Period.
They already stage a NFL Superbowl game at Wembley to a packed house.
Check out the US hegemony on Sky, Netflix and Amazon.
US movies and TV series flood our screens, where it is the norm to do without to put away money for the kids’ ‘college fund’, and many a drama centres on,say robbing a bank to pay for poor wee Chantelle’s kidney transplant.
We are being conditioned slowly but surely for the ‘Soft Invasion’.
Have you ever wondered why the TV Channels, especially the BBC produce so many ‘period pieces. like ‘Poldark’, and ‘Downton Abbey’, where fiction rubs shoulders with the real Upstairs Downstairs modern world of Lord Canarvon ; where servants know their place and the Rich Rule, just like the Hamptons’ Set across the Pond.
Or…vote Yes.
Engwaland, good Jack. But, I prefer Wangland. Plus alphabetically, they’d be stuck at the rear end of the UN.
{ :o)
‘fly’s head’ even.
They fibbed.
The premise of Brexit as sold to the public was and is the most blatant of fabrications. There never was a cake and eat it Brexit. There never was a best of both worlds, easiest deal ever. Prior to, during and post referendum there was no Brexit plan at all. No white paper. No contingency proposals. No mutually agreed outcomes. Nothing. It was never intended to happen at all. A gamble to settle an ideological power dispute gone horribly wrong and a popular narrative of fear and intolerance out of control determined the economic fate of millions. It’s also made a few quid for market players, hedge fund managers and of course those who would determine both your human and civic rights for you. But, y’know, silver linings… for some.
The rest of the populations of the UK, those who don’t live lives of privilege or entitlement, have the wherewithal to keep their savings in tax havens or generally get to make actual decisions on anything? They get to live with the consequences of having their votes and emotions manipulated.
Also on the fibbed part? Pretty much ditto on Scotland’s 2014 indyref. There never was a devo to the max, near federal settlement. big shooders, pooling and sharing, ‘leading with’ kinda partnership. There never was a settlement or agreement which Westminster government (of any stripe) wouldn’t break in a heartbeat if it got in the way of what it considers a better deal, private/political self interest or simple political expediency.
The EU, RoI/N.I. agreements, Scotland’s devolution settlement, indyref assurances? Brexit drove a big red bus through all of those ‘agreements’.
At this point, a fairly simple question.
You should trust the word of those who’ve thrown your lives under that same big red bus why precisely?
“Prior to, during and post referendum there was no Brexit plan at all.”
Have to correct you on that:
—
One party had a Brexit Plan. (Some picture about Cameron resigning?)
One party knew exactly what it would do if leave won. (picture of the stacks of paper vs the single side of A4 at the EU negotiating table – I know, it’s illustrative, not representative)
That party was not the Official Opposition, though they were the most effective opposition. (Pie chart of Labour Abstentions)
That party was not the government of the UK, though even their enemies will admit that they govern better than the government of the UK, intentionally. (George Ffoulks: “They’re doing it intentionally” clip with subs)
That party was the SNP. (SNP Yellow & Black fades to Saltire)
—
If someone with better artistic skills than me wants to put that together, I’d appreciate it.
Even the Westminster loving sky news admitted that when they said on air the only only one with any plan was Nicola sturgeon.
It’s all the more incredible (for want of a better word) that the UK is in this mess when the average percentage vote in favour of Remain across all of the UK was 53 percent. Taking Gibraltar into account it was 61.5 percent. But England has the greater number of people so the rest of us have to shut up and do what they want?
Then that means farage was right the vote was rigged but not by remain like he was claiming it’s was leave that rigged it typical the culprit points the finger frist
I must admit I’m frightened of the thought of American food standards coming here. Even now I try to buy the best quality I can but, on benefits, in the future it doesn’t look too good.
Rarely disagree with anything you have to say Paul but I disagree with you here. There are many of us on the left who voted leave because we see the EU as a cartel representing the interests of big business as opposed to ordinary citizens. Our voice is rarely heard – for some reason leave voters are routinely portrayed as right wing zealots.
If the UK leaves without a deal so be it. When you’re negotiating with a cartel the cards are always going to be stacked against you.
Hello Alan
We actually decided to leave a group of nations that has improved life of us all with workers rights, huge one standards, the four freedoms.
Our WM idiots know fine well the club rules. We were integral to all the treaties, we have people inside the running of every EU department.
Our UK Government ARE economically damaging us all.
They know that there Chequers joke can never be accepted by the EU as it breaks the EU rules we helped build.
In two years time feel proud of them Alan when you see the damage they are doing.
Why is you belief system so narrow minded? Do yourselves a favour, spend the nect four months learning how the EU is run and managed. Then you will understand. No large organisation can be perfect but it is the best community of free nations on this planet.
Rant over.
Andy, beat me to it.
The EU as cartel, and WM as our saviour?
Aye right.
Well said sir.
lanm, you may note that Andy and I are not hiding behind a nom de plume.
Come back when you wish to debate this further in the cold light of day.
Do not, *EVER* insult someone for maintaining anonymity. It is a *critical* part to counter the modern surveillance state. And is required to let certain people engage in political debate in safety.
As long as they aren’t trying to represent themselves as more than one person, a pseudonym is *never* to be used as evidence against someone.
Also, how do we know that you’re not hiding behind a nom de plume that just happens to look like a normal name? Pot, kettle, etc…
agreed, Illy.
My dander gets up at ‘Och, just let’s get on with it. No Deal so be it” thoughtless trolling like this.
In my previous life, I would have jeopardised my livelihood by posting on sites like this.
We know that Project Fear and the Brit Nat Dark Money funded and continues to fund black propaganda, you only have to check the BTL posters on our MSM and the lies and threats their ‘Moderators allow to survive in print.
@Charles Dickens, e.g., is probably a team of agent provocateurs set up by the Brit State to attack Self Determination relentlessly.
I have no doubt at all that we are all ‘on a list’ somewhere. G’day GCHQ.
I’ve been puled up a couple of times in the last few days.
Time I took a good look at myself in the mirror; or maybe not.
Je vous pris pardon. Illy
Agreed Andy, as well as the points you make, the large countries all over the world are growing into massive markets the EU will have to stay together to compete for businness, leaving the EU will only weaken both the rest of the EU, and the UK, which in my opinion will be even less able to negotiate any deals with the rest of the world.
Alan,
We have had 73 years of peace. That alone is enough for me to stay in the EU.
Then we add workers’ rights, food standards, the ability to move easily around a large area, etc.
If we think that our voice is rarely heard in the EU, wait to see what Westminster do to communications after Brexit. We have already had English Votes for English Laws imposed on us, and they are talking about limiting access to the internet.
I will take my chances with what I have seen for most of my 74 years on the planet, even if it is a cartel.
Me too.
A lot of people oppose membership of the EU, and that’s a perfectly respectable position. Unfortunately the kind of Brexit we’re going to get is only going to reinforce and strengthen the interests of those big businesses you complain about, not weaken them or rein them in. The fact is that Brexit has been hijacked by the right, and it has now become a right wing project.
You nailed it Paul. It is, and always has been, a Spiv’s Brexit.
Spot on. This not a normal Brexit it is a Tory Brexit.
No Alan. The EU aren’t perfect. They’ve got their problems tbs. The reason they’re seen as a cartel I’d suppose is because the EU is a trading union. The trade bit used as a tool to ensure something a bit more important. Peace on the European continent. The longest period in its recorded history. Seems logical. Trade and peace going hand in hand.
They’re not Westminster though. They’re not a closed shop and they are not by any stretch forcing members to stay or leave. As massive trading unions go, that’s about as much as you can expect and a far, FAR, superior situation to the ‘partnership’ Scotland currently enjoys as (literally) the other signatory to the Treaty of Union.
Economically, the killer blow for our populations is forced (by Westminster interests) removal from the single market and the CU. On legislation? The protection of human and civil rights afforded by the ECJ and ECHR. Freedom of movement for goods, services and people. ALL of which could still be available under an EFTA membership which, if we didn’t fancy being part of the EU’s decision making process, would soften the impact of losing full membership considerably.The largest trading market on the planet.
‘So be it’ really can’t be the answer. Nothing is worth the misery people will suffer in a hard or no deal Brexit. It won’t feed people or avoid incalculable economic harm being visited upon every household the length and breadth of these islands.
I have no problem with people not wanting to be a full EU member. It’s, as Paul says, a respectable position. Being removed from that market place and those legislative protections though? You maybe really want to think about that.
Agree with your comments except for peace on the European continent. The Balkans war in the 90s. I know the Balkans countries were not in the EU and I know the EU helped to end the war but the statement is surely not factually correct. I make this point whilst still accepting the fact that the EU has helped create peace among countries that had a history of waging wars with each other.
It was a statement based on the EU member states Cubby, but point taken.
If it’s a choice between the EU or the UK I will take the EU every time.
Measured and constructive responses (as you’d expect) from both WGD and Macart. Some of the others slightly less so!
For the record, I was voting SNP back in the days when fourth place in every election was the norm and so holding a minority view is nothing new to me and certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
Sorry Andy but I’ve got better things to do than to spend four months studying the inner workings of the EU. I’m not in need of a cure for insomnia. The EU membership issue has now been settled and will only be reopened as and when Scotland regains its status as an independent nation state. Until then we just have to play the hand we’ve been dealt.
What were you in a previous life, Jack? Teacher? Your writing is the mutt’s nuts.
It has been known, Kenzie.
Not teaching but close.
Illy,
”
The EU membership issue has now been settled and will only be reopened as and when Scotland regains its status as an independent nation state. Until then we just have to play the hand we’ve been dealt.”
Some of us don’t believe for one minute that the EU membership issue has now been settled.
We are sitting back watching it unfold, that’s all. By October, when May and Co., run out of rope, then we’ll see if “the EU membership issue has now been settled”.
The Fat Lady of Threadneedle Street has not sung yet.
“The Fat Lady of Threadneedle Street has not sung yet”
If true that only serves to vindicate the point I made yesterday…
“There are many of us on the left who voted leave because we see the EU as a cartel representing the interests of big business as opposed to ordinary citizens”
Hand on heart, how many folk do you know who would claim to be better off as a direct result of our EU membership? I only know a few and they’re all bankers.
alanm,
you do realise that 10’s of thousands of jobs are on the line here?
Our economy will crash and burn.
But, hey, what do ‘experts’ know?
The £ has plummeted since the leave vote, and from next April even you guys on the left will be barred from travel, work, or resettlement, anywhere in Europe unless you get permission from the English Home Office and meet ‘third country’ criteria to work, travel, or settle in most of Europe?
My next door neighbour works for a French Company here in Glasgow.
Will he have a job next April?
The Old Lady of Threadneedle street is of course The Bank of England(sic) which is of course really the Bank of the UK.
Money talks, politicians listen.
From Richard II:-
“This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands,–This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.”
This is May Gove Fox Johnson Rees Mogg and David Davis UK.
It is also Corbyn McDonnell Watson Starmer Thornberry UK, and Cable Carmichael and Clegg UK.
Scotland is a colony, and of little interest to England, other than to exploit our minerals and wealth.
We are a Tartan Congo to the Imperialists.
And those listed above are all Brit Nat Imperial exceptionalists.
Still when Fox lands a trade deal with the USA, B&Q will be full of Self build garden sheds with corrugate roofs fireproofed with asbestos undercutting the EU huts no doubt because of prohibitive No Deal hefty tariffs on Johnny Furriner goods entering Merrie Wangland.
Rant over.
alanm, millions of Europeans are better off, because of the EU being formed, there has been no wars in the last 73years so we have all benifitted from that. I would also point out that most of the EU countries have improved their living standards, Spain Portugal, Ireland, to name but a few. As far as your left minded freinds who voted leave are concerned, as a young man I was that much to the left that I used to say that my hero Mick McGahey was too near the centre ground. However after 22years I left the pits, to become a Publican where I realised their was one thing worse than a tory councillor, that was a TORY dressed up as a lefty labour councillor. There is corruption at both left and right extremes, independance will allow the people of Scotland the chance to control corruption which ever form it comes in.
I’d be interested to hear your definition of plummet.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/412806/euro-to-gbp-average-annual-exchange-rate/
“THE POUND slumped yesterday to its lowest level in the last two weeks as the threat of a no-deal Brexit grows increasingly likely and concern rises.
By Harriet Mallinson
PUBLISHED: 11:23, Tue, Aug 7, 2018 | UPDATED: 11:24, Tue, Aug 2018.
The pound has slumped against the euro today, trading at a level of €1.119 according to Bloomberg. This is the worst exchange rate in over two weeks and has been put down to continued Brexit concerns.
The main worry among GBP traders is that the UK could face an economically turbulent ‘no-deal’ Brexit, both of which are considered undesirable.
Most recently, UK police chiefs have warned that a bad Brexit deal could jeopardise public safety as it would limit access to EU-wide databases and security powers.
In a letter addressed to Home Secretary Sajid Javid, the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners warned: “The UK and EU share a common and ever evolving threat picture.
“[In the event of no Brexit deal,] considerable additional resource would be required for policing to operate using non-EU tools and that such tools would be sub-optimal – potentially putting operational efficiency and public safety at risk.”
With UK institutions and agencies seemingly lining up to warn against the effects of a ‘no-deal’ Brexit, these latest comments have put even more pressure on UK negotiators to secure a favourable separation package.”
Ok, alanm, your wullie is bigger than mine.
Done with this.
Unfortunately I don’t share the same optimism of some who say we will definitely vote yes the next time we vote on independence. Do I think it’s possible? Yes, of course!
As we see day in and day out though the British media work tirelessly in brainwashing the masses. They control the narrative and the message is loud and clear. SNP/independence very bad. Britain is exceptional in every way.
WGD kept well away from your TV and radio along with other pro indy media successes. I’m gutted I won’t make the protest at the BBC this Saturday but I hope it’s a huge turnout. I do feel though unless there’s a campaign of non payment of the license fee due to the bias against Scotland and its democracy then we may just loose a second indy ref from not learning valuable lessons from the first.
The BBC should have been run out of Scotland the last indy ref or after. They have changed though but not for the better. We will have to win hearts and minds over in the face of increasing hostility once more. I actually think it would be a vote winner if the SNP stated that in the event of a failed indy ref 2 from there on in every election will be fought on an indy ticket. The yoons would go batshit crazy but then when are they not so? All the SNP would have to say to them is do you have a problem with democracy?
I’d like us to be independent asap but if we need to play the long game so be it. Problem with that is we will suffer a hell of a lot at the hands of our neighbours unfortunately and it will be our own fault. Indy is aspirational dependency is quite the opposite, this should be drummed into the masses at every opportunity. We need to have the best people delivering the message, you know anyone Paul? Wink wink.
Ok, I started writing this feeling quite pessimistic but I’ve reached the end thinking we have a really good chance at this. If we get our message across well it’s game over for our colony status in a few short years. Let’s wrap this up.