At the All Under One Banner marches and rallies there are many people with whom to disagree. Disgreeing with people is part and parcel of any grassroots movement. There are plenty of people who disagree with Tommy Sheridan, both with his politics and with his person. There are plenty of people who disagree with the more business friendly wing of the SNP and its overly cautious approach. There are plenty of people who disagree with the virtue signallers on the Scottish left who seem to spend more time on social media slagging off other parts of the independence movement than they do attacking the British state that is the root cause of so many of Scotland’s problems.
But what the vast majority of these diverse and often contentious voices within the independence movement have in common, even as they argue amongst themselves, is that they recognise and celebrate the diversity of experiences and backgrounds of the people who make up modern Scotland.
The vast majority of the independence movement doesn’t just accept the Scottishness of people born elsewhere who come to Scotland and who choose to make their lives here, we actively encourage and praise it. We do so because it proves that Scottishness isn’t narrow, inward-looking, and limited. It proves that Scotland and her people are outward looking and engaged with the world. It proves that we are not afraid of change and not threatened by difference. That’s what makes the Scottish independence movement a qualitatively different thing from the narrow British nationalism that drives Brexit.
So I want to say here and now, that anyone who campaigns for a Scotland that’s based on ethnicity is not campaigning for a Scotland that I want to live in. As a Scot of Irish descent, I know what it feels like to be called not properly Scottish, to have other Scots insist that I’m not Scottish enough. As a gay Scot of an older generation I know what it feels like to be rejected by my compatriots and to have to seek to build a life outside of Scotland. I don’t want the mistakes of the Scotland of the past to visit the Scotland of the future. This country and movement that I love are inclusive, not exclusive. They are welcoming, they don’t slam the door in anyone’s face.
Representing the true spirit of Scottish hospitality means extending a welcome even to those who have been your enemies in the past. It means that banners which read “Tory scum out” only serve to alienate people who might be persuadable to the cause of independence. They’re self-defeating as well as so very 1980s. The independence campaign shouldn’t be stuck in a time warp, let’s leave that sort of thing to the British nationalists who have the copyright on it.
The issue here, for the sake of clarity, isn’t with the anti-Conservative sentiment, that’s shared widely. It’s with the use of the word “scum”. If you’re going to be insulting at least try to be inventive and amusing about it fur feck’s sake. It’s the word scum that gets plastered all over Scotland’s overwhelmingly anti-independence press, and it’s that which exercises the holier than thou tendency which is disproportionately represented on Scottish social media, not the positive message of inclusivity preached by the vast majority there.
So to Sìol nan Gaidheal and their schtoopit banner I’d just like to say – Falbhaibh is gabhaibh ur gnùisean airson càca. Because that would be a whole lot more useful to the cause. That means “Away youse and take yer faces fur a shite,” in case you were wondering. Actually a banner that reads May, Davidson, agus Mundell, falbhaibh is gabhaibh ur gnùisean airson càca would be infinitely better than “Tory scum”, and no one would object to it. [phonetically – very roughly fa.luh.viv iss ga.viv oor groon.shin er.son caach.ka]
But more importantly and more seriously, let us never forget that when Scotland is independent it will be a democracy. That means it’s going to contain people who espouse centre right politics, and I say this as someone who identifies with the political left. We’re not going to attract those on the centre right of Scottish politics to our side, as we must if we are to achieve a majority, if we alienate them before we can even start to speak to them. Let’s leave the numpty banners to the zoomers and green crayon gang of Scotland in Union please.
Equally this is why we should have no time or sympathy for groups and organisations which divide the people of Scotland into those whom they deem to be properly Scottish and those who are not. People who support an ethnic vision of Scottishness are not fighting for a Scotland that most of us would be welcome in. We already have xenophobia and fear of the foreign in the British Brexit state, we don’t need any more of that sort of nonsense, we need to escape from it. The reason so many of us support independence is precisely because independence represents an escape to a more tolerant, accepting, and saner country. You don’t build a better country by repeating the mistakes of those you seek to escape from.
Those who refer to English people who live in Scotland as settlers, and who refuse to acknowledge that by coming here and throwing their lot in with Scotland English Scots have as much right to determine the future of this country as anyone else, do not represent this independence movement and have no place of honour or respect within it. They represent the frightened and frightening xenophobia that this independence movement is seeking an escape from. You don’t build a refuge from the madness of the likes of Ukip by indulging in a similar madness of your own.
Thankfully those who espouse a narrowly ethnic driven vision of Scotland are a tiny minority. They do not represent the mainstream of our movement, and our movement must disavow them. They harm us all, because they allow opponents of independence to paint our beautiful tolerant and open movement as “anti-English”. We should not march behind their banners. We should not allow our open tolerant and inclusive movement to become a platform for their negativity and exclusivity. Give them a wide berth and mock them. They do not speak for us. They do not represent us.
If you think that the campaign for Scottish independence is about ethnic nationalism, if you think that it’s just for people who are “ethnically” Scots, then you’re doing Scottish independence all wrong. If you think that the cause of independence is only for those who are born Scottish, then you’re not doing independence any favours, you’re playing into the hands of the British state. You’re only giving opponents of independence the ammunition that they need in order to paint our entire movement as something that any decent person should shun. It means that you’re a useful idiot. Don’t be an idiot. Be a real patriot. Real patriots recognise that the wider the support base is for independence, the stronger the cause for independence becomes.
Being a real patriot means that you don’t limit your patriotism to those who have inherited it. It means that you believe so much in your country that you want to share it. Being a real patriot means that you believe that your country is not weakened by diversity but is strengthened by it. Being a real patriot means that you’re not threatened by those who choose to come to live in Scotland and to build their lives here. It means that you are honoured by their presence. Being a real patriot means that you recognise that people who come to live in Scotland from England, from Pakistan, from Syria, from Poland, from Angola, from Denmark, from anywhere else in the world, bring to us their experiences, their cultures, their cuisines, their perspectives, and by doing so they enrich us all. They make Scotland a richer place, a more interesting place, and by accepting them as our own we demonstrate that Scotland is a bigger country. It’s bigger in spirit. It’s bigger in heart.
Independence is about real patriotism, and that’s the patriotism of sharing, of acceptance, of tolerance and understanding. Let us never forget that that’s the Scotland we’re striving for.
Mapa Gàidhlig na h-Alba / Gaelic Map of Scotland
The Gaelic map of Scotland is now available, the cost is £15 plus £7 P&P within the UK. Please note P&P outwith the UK is more expensive. P&P to Europe is £10, P&P to the rest of the world is £15. If you require multiple copies of the map, you only need pay once for P&P, up to 3 copies of the map which is the maximum that can fit in one postal tube.
You can purchase a copy of the map by Paypal by clicking the donate button at the end of this page and entering the requisite amount. Please also include the address to which the map should be posted. If you prefer another payment method, please email me at weegingerbook@yahoo.com for alternatives.
The Wee Ginger Dug has got a new domain name, thanks to Indy Poster Boy, Colin Dunn @Zarkwan. http://www.indyposterboy.scot/ You can now access this blog simply by typing www.weegingerdug.scot into the address bar of your browser, the old address continues to function, the new one redirects to the blog. The advantage of the new address is that it’s a lot easier to remember if you want to include a link to the blog in leaflets, posters, or simply to tell a friend about it. Many thanks to Colin.
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Well said sir. No to the blood an soil nationalism of the Blackshirts and Yes to the Civic Nationalism of the left of centre Scottish Nationalism.
No to the British rightwing, imperialist Nationalism the three main British Nationalist Parties. Merr power to the wee ginger canine.
[…] Wee Ginger Dug Falbhaibh a ghabhail ur gnùisean airson càc At the All Under One Banner marches and rallies there are many people with whom to […]
Third paragraph first line.. There is a ‘doesn’t don’t’ that’s not reading right..
Fixed now thanks
Exactly…. again..well said…..and thank you for the potentially very useful Gaelic!
Well said, sir. If you’re not open, tolerant and welcoming towards other people, you’re getting much better than you deserve if they are welcoming, tolerant and open towards you.
One of the best of your always brilliant posts, Paul.
I was about to be picky about the ‘doesn’t don’t’ thing in para3 but I see someone beat me to it.
I was born in England to a Scottish father (in the RAF so no choice about where he was domiciled) and an English mother. Dad finally got his wish to be based in Scotland on his last RAF posting, at which point I was aged 11 and aargh now qualify as a OAP.
Both my parents then engaged fully with Gaelic societies in Edinburgh, he as a learner and she as a pianist who loved the songs and had a natural talent that allowed her to accompany the singers we heard at ceilidhs.
On leaving the RAF, Dad went on to a degree in Gaelic & English and became a published poet in both those languages as well as his native Scots.
I still have family members in England and I thoroughly enjoy their company but I identify as ‘Scottish not British’. I have voted for independence for as long as I have been entitled to vote.
I therefore find it enormously dispiriting that there is an element within the independence movement that thinks ‘Scottish by birth in Scotland’ should be a requirement to allow a vote in any future referendum.
I’m also aware that there was a group (probably quite small, but it was a start) of ‘Conservatives for Independence’ during our first referendum. I imagine these are the sort of people my late mother-in-law would have identified with – the ‘one-nation’ Tories she saw as rewarding hard work, saving where you could, and standing for decent treatment of other people. We were proud as hell when she realised that voting for Thatcher was NOT anything to do with her core values.
So (apart from my annoyance at the ‘Scottish by birth in Scotland’) what is my point? Derek Bateman summed it up a long time ago in a pre-referendum blog when he talked about trying to convert Mr & Mrs Average to the cause of independence – they are not persuaded by the vision of sunny uplands populated by socialist unicorns, they hope for a degree of stability and they mostly recognise that an influx of Europeans is not a bad thing.
Ah, but here’s the kicker – residing in the SW, I do get the anti-Englsh sentiment. We do have people who have moved here for the social benefits and the relativity of property prices. Discuss.
I also live in the SW, in a village with a high population of English social migrants (as well as several Europeans), Many go full native and become an integral part of the community and others don’t -as is their right (I wasn’t born in this village and am classed as an “incomer” myself, coming a full 17 miles from where I am now). However, what I find most annoying and completely baffling are people who come here, from wherever, because of cheap property and the social benefits but then vote “anything but SNP”, seemingly unaware that they are the very party that have given us most of the benefits for which they came. Again – they have the right to vote for whoever they wish but I just don’t understand their logic. Why would you move somewhere for a better life and then try to make that place exactly the same as the place from which you were escaping, risking losing all the benefits you came for in the first place?
Also stuckdoonhame, I understand your late mother in law’s sentiments (my own mother voted for Sir Hector Munro for many years as he had helped her with a problem) and I feel that not only have the Tories lost their core values but the Labour party have too. It’s almost like they are both establishment parties now designed to give people the illusion of choice in an election and keeping up the myth that there is some sort of democracy at play in UK.
I’m also of the opinion that everyone, age eligible, should be allowed to vote – no matter your status or where your Ma happened to drop you from her womb. Unfortunately so many of those eligible either won’t vote or, for some inexplicable reason, will vote to remain in UK and, if popular local opinion in D&G is anything to go by, we are stuck in this hellish union for a long time to come.
Thank you SO much for this piece, Paul. It’s not only one of your best but touches me close to home, too. The Scotland you describe is the Scotland I want to come home to one day. I didn’t shake the dust of the hateful and xenophobic land of my birth off my feet, only to find that it had blown across the border and begun infecting the land of my heart.
Thank you so much for that wonderful piece of writing. I cannot attend these marches, but watch them live on the internet and they move me to tears of pride. However, banners such as that one make me cringe. As a non Gaelic speaker I’ll be trying very hard to remember your phonetic version of that wonderful insult!
We are all after the same thing – independence. Afterwards, who knows, we could have a Tory government in Scotland too. If we did, it would be because the people of Scotland had voted for it and would be made up of people who actually want good things for Scotland, unlike Fluffy and The Mooth!
Spot on Paul. As far as I can check there are not Scottish ancestors in my line. Shame, shame, shame, I hear me say. Yet there was an Iron Founder from Maryhill but he was Irish who moved down to Middlesbrough for work. Still that’s close enough to be Scottish, isn’t it? I hate the Tories with a vengeance, watching them destroy communities for over the more than 60 years of my life. My family down asouth are all Tories yet they are decent people. They are not Scum. The Scum are the politicians, the media Tories, their think tanks, their Eton group’s etc. I fully endorse the Independence movement and have done so since I was welcomed to study, work and raise a family in this fair land over 45 years ago. Yet when I see that banner at the front of a march I cringe. I cringe at all the damage it does to the movement. I cringe at the media reaction, a media waiting with ecstatic breath for anything to belittle the movement with. I cringe at the insult to many who vote Tory yet are decent people (oddly sad I know) and I cringe for all the work being done to win over the Mo voters being set back by this stupid banner.. Rant o Ver…..for now. ,
To be fair, this banner was not at the front of the Bannockburn march, ‘Independence Now’ was. However, I agree that it should not have been there at all.
I always assumed that the banner referred to the current crop of Tory politicians, like the chants of “Tories Out”, not to Tory voters – surely even some of them must see that the current incumbents are self serving and don’t have the good of any of the constituent countries at heart?
Has it struck anyone else as odd that, if the Scottish people are not interested in independence (as Fluffy and Ruthie would have us believe), there are always thousands of marchers and only a handful (if any) of Unionist protesters?
Does anyone know what numbers attend the Orange marches?
Maybe Scotland in Union could start their own grass movement marches against independence?
The Orange Order represents a minority in Northern Ireland and in Scotland (its second largest home ), yet it exerts undue influence in high places –
There is an Orange Lodge in Westminster and most DUP members (who are upholding PM May’s administration) are members of the Loyal orders.
Here’s what the Orange Order is up to at present in North Belfast
Thank you Paul, what you’ve said means a lot to me. I don’t like making out people are fools for what they believe in, and totally agree the way forward is to have a rational conversation, they may even change their minds…..
forgetting my manners..Thanks! I have posted on this subject before and it is difficult sometimes in my area to see rUK, but particularly English people, buy and move into all the best houses whilst pushing prices out of reach of local wages..
These same folk reap the benefits of living here while remaining mostly anti SNP..
Also to see the English flag displayed so liberally of late..
It is enough to make a patriot shiver and somewhat wonder how engaged and dedicated some of these folk are in and to our future.
Is it too easy to return ‘home’ and so they may have not put roots down fully? This could change in time of course, dependant on the strength of their ties..
People’s coming from further afield /a less fortunate life may be more likely to embrace their adopted country?
I do agree that inclusive is the way forward and that way, when our day comes, the Still Cry Union Mob can join their conservative friends elsewhere in these islands..
I’m hoping my banner is inclusive enough -‘better to get oot’!!
Well said, Paul. It’s sad that it needs to be said.
Great piece of writing and I agree with all that is said. My first son was born in England and he is an independence supporter. Banning people who live in Scotland to vote is just plain wrong. However, at the risk of the dug (which I now realise is not that wee) biting my ankle again I did think the banning of someone from the site who held a different point of view may have been the wrong course of action.
I thought at the time that the dug had easily the skill set and knowledge to counter the argument and perhaps even convince the person banned he was wrong and at the same time convince others who may be thinking the same that it is the wrong way to go. After reading this piece I think this proves my point. So well done with this great piece of writing but still not convinced of the need for a ban. Surely persuasion not banning.
As the old saying goes, “There are only three types of people in the world. Those that are Scottish, those that would like to be, and those with no ambition”.
As for the English that live in Scotland, I have met many who take part in Scottish life and want to become fully involved with the country they now live in. However, I have also met many, many more English (particularly in and around Edinburgh) that are still fully English and have no intention in voting any other way than staying a part of England; i.e. they want Scotland to stay as a colony of England, though they like all the extra benefits they get from living in Scotland.
Regarding voting rights, the English government prevented any EU citizens living and working in the YUK from voting in the Brexit referendum. Strangely, there was little outcry in the media about this. I know that the English government was scared that these EU citizens would vote to remain, hence their disenfranchising them from a vote on Brexit.
Surely, by the same token, it would be perfectly in order for us to exclude the English from voting in an independence referendum in Scotland as, in the majority of cases, they are likely to vote for Scotland to remain as an English colony. There are somewhere between a 1/2 and 3/4 of a million English living in Scotland and they could affect the outcome because of their numbers.
Incidentally, I am not anti-English per se, I don’t mind them as neighbours, but I do not want them as rulers of Scotland, either directly or by keeping us as their colony, to steal our money and resources, make power grabs and to ignore the voices of the Scottish people.
EU citizens won’t be excluded from Indyref2 (as long as it’s before Brexit) so wouldn’t they offset any English living in Scotland too stupid to see what side their bread is buttered on?
I wonder if the so called extension period where we must adhere to EU rules will allow EU citizens to vote. I suspect not. Cannot see indiref2 before 31 March next year.
Agree Paul with your comments.
there is as yet no guarantee there will be an extension/Transition/Implementation period. Unless the UK signs up to the Withdrawal agreement. Which it has so far refused to do.
We should know what’s going on by the end of this week
How do you think the English can be identified? And once identified will they have to wear armbands with Morris dancers on them? I have spoken to English people living in Scotland who say they are living in north Britain or greater England. I feel sorry for them as it clearly is a stupid and offensive point of view but no justifcation for them not being able to vote. Plenty of stupid people get to vote that are not English.
I thought EU citizens should have got the vote in the EU referendum as they did in the 2014 referendum. But removing the vote from English people is not on. Two wrongs do not make a right. I do understand the frustration and it was not helped by the Daily Mail headline saying it was the English that won it for us. But that’s the Mail for you divisive to the end.
I do not believe your comment re the English goverment deliberately refusing EU citizens the vote is accurate. The UK gov was for remaining in EU. It was the existing UK rules that excluded them.
So how were they able to vote in the Scottish Referendum? I’ve worked at polling stations and I was shocked to find out that some people are excluded from voting in certain elections. Everyone who lives here has to live with the consequences of any vote therefore they should all have a vote.
Weechid. If your question is how were they (eu citizens) allowed to vote in the Scotref then I believe that was because it was different rules. The Edinburgh agreement also agreed that 16/17year olds could vote. I agree that if you live in Scotland you should get a vote.
Not suggesting this is an answer but, I have seen it mooted that consideration as to residency duration be adopted in such cases?
Thank you, Paul, for your brilliant article. We certainly don’t want to foster racism. However I do have a problem with people who find our property prices attractive and subsequently push prices so high that young local people cannot afford to rent or buy, resulting in another Highland Clearance. A solution to this problem must be found.
Can see what you’re saying Jan but that’s a problem with the housing market and not immigration.
Once again something we can address with Independence
Thanks again for signing my map Paul…. and a big Thanks to your friend who had a Pen
First class post again Paul I don’t think you missed much, wish I had your way with words. Unfortunatly bigots are everywhere, they are a form of bully that hides behind banners and people like themselves, but they are usually only a small percentage of any country’s population thankfully. All be it a small ammount we can do without. If there is anything I like less than fluffy, it is bully’s, they usually couldn’t fight the cauld.
With regards to the banners/placards and chants on the AUOB marches. AUOB says it all. I think we can do a lot better. One consistent message. Also not words that children may see that are inappropriate. I saw the Tory scum banner and immediately thought it was inappropriate. Many will have thought that previously about the Tories but it is not appropriate for the march. There are plenty of good on message statements that can be used. It is a March for independence so keep to that message.
Well said. It’s probably a few nutters at the moment, but I would not be surprised if the British state tries to plant a few obnoxious weeds among our beautiful grass roots movement, just to soil things a bit.
If this happens, we should counteract, with two main actions:
1. Carefully check posters and banners of people joining the indy marches.
2. Actively promote solidarity by making it very clear that small c conservatives are very welcome in the indy movement.
This can be done in a number ways, including appropriate banners etc at marches.
Completely agree Luigi, coming from the left of centre I started my politics from as far left as it was possible to go. Life experiances have made me eventually grow up(in my fifties) over twenty years ago, when I finally agreed that we needed bussinness to build our economy, to run these companies we need the people, some of who are bussinness men/woman many who will vote tory. As my mother used to say it takes all kinds. Lets keep AUOB’s feet firmly on the ground.
Allow for the spelling again I mean business men/woman.
Hear, hear.
Completely agree Paul; an ethnic approach to Scottishness is total nonsense.
Thankfully are a mongrel nation (both culturally and genetically).
Regarding folks who choose Scotland, can anyone suggest a non-pejorative collective noun?
Many names are abusive or have now been appropriated by media as terms of abuse:
-Migrants
-Immigrants
-Colonists (was always a term of abuse)
-Settlers (could have been neutral but now often pejorative)
-Ferry Louper (always was pejorative-Orkney term, can also be used for anyone not from Orkney)
‘New Scots’? ‘Scots by choice’?
I’ve noticed Nicola Sturgeon welcoming ‘people who do us the honour of choosing to make Scotland their home’.
Seem a bit clumsy and long winded.
Myself:
From the Scottish diaspora
Born in a former colony
Grew up in English Home Counties
Learned that is was less hassle at school to pass myself off as English
Decided that Scotland is home.
Too old to be a ‘New Scot’ ;o)
‘Scot by choice’?
Maybe just give up and use the term ‘Scot’
My dad was English and lived up here for almost 50 years before he died and he voted SNP. He loved Rabbie Burns, haggis, whisky and our traditional music. I used to say that he was more Scottish than I was! I know one or two English people living here who don’t want independence for Scotland as they still feel attached to England, but I know a lot more who do want us to be free of Westminster.
I’m having trouble separating the principle of people from abroad in the EU not being allowed to vote that UK be governed in an EU capacity and people from England not being allowed to vote that Scotland be governed in an English capacity.
That aside, I surmise that there was a mechanism in place to prevent non-UK EU nationals from being able to vote in the EU referendum. I doubt there is such a mechanism available in a Scottish Independence referendum. It would be left to the integrity of the people living here to deeply consider the motivations behind what we are voting for. If we are simply voting on economic grounds, for instance, then anybody and their dug should get a vote, even Germans, as the vote affects them too. But this is not an economic vote.
It’s just occurred to me that maybe there is something we have the mainstream media to thank for after all.
They are so keen to paint the independence movement as ethnic nationalists, waiting to pounce on and trumpet the smallest confirmation of this viewpoint, that the indy movement has become hyper-aware and self-censoring of these tendencies and officially at least, has gone out of is way to be welcoming to all.
Are we civic nationalists partly because the British press would crucify the cause (even more so than now) otherwise?
Conversely … and here’s the bit that will make you think … if the press was on our side, would we be small-minded ethnics like the Brexiteers championed by at least half the press? If so then allow me to say loud to the Mail, Express, Telegraph, BBC:
PLEASE KEEP OPPOSING INDEPENDENCE WE DON’T WANT YOUR KIND OF SUPPORT
That’s a keen insight, Craig P, and I can see the truth in it, especially in the way that new generations become more and more PC in their expressions of themselves. Some are so because of media pressure and the need for compliance with their perception of society (many people don’t do cognitive dissonance), some do so genuinely due to the rise of the assertions of the softer, fairer sex in society and realising the need to soften their hard attitudes for society’s benefit. I cannot pretend I would know the motivations of the factions who voted either way in Scotland’s last independence referendum no more than I would know the motivations of factions of those who voted in the EU referendum but I do surmise that turkeys tend to not vote for Christmas. Maybe certain factions see themselves as turkeys?
Maybe you should direct a little wisdom at the folks on the National forum? A lot of them are just as bad as their opposites on the Scotsman forum!
Absolutely agree 100%. Every time I see or meet someone who wasn’t born here or has a different cultural background but who feels comfortable buying into our society and culture like it’s their own, I feel proud of my country. Every time I see people spouting ethnic purism, I despair.
As an aside when it comes to parts of our heritage like Gaelic, there is often more respect from those who came in from outside. Also, I can’t help it but I think you mean ‘falbhaibh is gabhaibh…. airson càca” (sorry – command must be on both verbs and airson requires the genetive).
Everyone is a critic eh? This must be the only blog where people offer grammatical corrections of Gaelic terms of abuse. But you’re quite right and I’ve made the changes. I only speak place name Gaelic, which is a different language from proper Gaelic.
Sorry again, you are one of very few bloggers even trying to use Gaelic at all and I greatly admire your endeavour with the Gaelic map.
Oh no need to apologise.
Thanks, and as always, you’re “ceart!” ~ for our friends I’ve included a definition ~
Ceart:
1 accurate, correct, proper, right 2 equitable, fair, just 3 justifiable 4 exact 5 honourable, rightful 6 same, self-same 7 true etc
Lots here to digest … meantime possibly of relevance, or at least interest :
‘The Next Labour Government’ pledges to nationalise the Moon Shuttle service, legislate for subsidised fares for Hard Working Pensioners on flights to Io, free body cloning and brain transplants for non smoking non drinking octogenarians, and a chilled bottle of Kentucky Beaujolais for all who vote Universal Labour at the next election.
Can hardly wait. It should only take about 150 years.
It’s not Conservative voters we need worry about.
It does what it says on the tin. Government for the Few, and the Many can starve.
It’s the dim-wits, formerly Red Militants who have taken over the Red Tories, and splinter ‘Far Left’ Groups, in and outwith the independence Movement who hate independence with maniacal passion..
Independent Scotland will very quickly ‘bed in’ and Scots will align themselves to their various political groups.
There will be a Left, Right, Middle equilibrium develop almost immediately.
It may be argued that any true SNP politician looks forward to doing themselves out of a job.
There is little need for an Independence Movement once we are a Free Nation again.
Hands up all those who want Maoist Scotland, 1960’s Labour Scotland, Thatcher Scotland, Blair/Brown/Mandelson New Labour Cool Britannia Scotland, Cameron/ (sorry) Clegg Scotland, or May/Johnson/ Fox/ Rees Mogg Scotland?
Ulva has just been bought by the community. It has taken 200 years to right the wrong of the Clearances.
I gather that the Laird isn’t very pleased with it.
We are not waiting any longer.
Scotland is a kaleidoscope of political cultures, and shall remain so.
Independence means that we vote in a Government for Scottish people, made up of Scottish MPs there to serve the Scottish People alone, who will be held accountable to the Scottish People, and will be voted out by the Scottish People if they ignore our specific instructions.
There are 23 Scots UK WM MPs who clearly do not put Scotland first above all else.
They are placemats doing their English Masters bidding, and after the shenanigans of the past 10 days or so, rejoice in humiliating Scotland, and deriding the land of their birth on cue along with the 590 baying pack of Brit Nats at Westminster.
They laughed and catcalled like true Quislings. They couldn’t give a fuck about Scotland; Red Blue and Yellow Tories.
The last straw didn’t break our back, it galvanised us to get rid of our Westminster overlords now.
Believe it or not, there are some ‘good’ conservatives.
Thank you.
Evidently in Spain in the late 30’s, the right wing party was colloquially known as “The Party of Corruption” (“Voices of the Old Sea” – Norman Lewis – a book I heartily recommend) – why don’t we adopt this term for our own “party of corruption”?
Which one?
Everybody in Scotland is an immigrant or descended from one. By that I mean that on an evolutionary time scale the few thousand years Scotland has actually been habitable is a tiny, tiny fraction of the 3.5 million years or so of human evolution and too short a time for any significant regional trait to have evolved.
Our characterstics are almost entirely composed of the mixture of peoples who have come here over the last 5000 years.
Despite Scotland being one of the oldest nation states in Europe before Union it is paradoxically one of the newest habitable regions on the planet.
We are all effectively descended from immigrants.
But more than that, if Scotland has a foundation myth, it’s of different peoples coming together for their mutual benefit/protection. First Scots from Ireland with the ‘native’ Picts, then the Strathclyde Britons. Finally the Norse came into the Hebrides and far north, but also the Danish influx into NE England cut off the Angles of Lothien from the English further south, they too threw in their lot with Scotland. So even in ‘ancient’ formative times we have at least five peoples coming together in a productive union, each contribution their own particular talents.
From such beginnings it’s surely small wonder that Scotland finds it relatively easy to welcome more recent newcomers?
England, OTOH was to a much larger extent dominated by the Anglo-saxons who steamrollered their way across the land, driving the Britons into Wales, Cornwall and Cumbria, or where they remained reducing them to surfs with few if any rights. And when the Normans arrived they simply established the basis of the English Class System, the idea that some have ‘Better Breeding’ than others.
Well said, as always, Marconatrix! You have distilled the matter to its essence and I could not agree more.
Land of the Scots aka Alba – the land of those who live in Scotia; Also interesting to note that in Gaelic you ask “Who are you from” (Co as a tha sibh?) not ‘where are you from?’ Our native language had us wanting to know who your family is to make a connection, nothing to do with where you were born,. That being said, Tory is a political choice, not a constitutional one. The vote for who runs Westminster is not the same as the vote for setting our country free from the union. We must be careful not to allow anything to dilute the cause for which we strive. Tories will come and Tories will go and they will do what Milton Friedman directed like a never ending broken record, whilst we want to progress to a future where we are free to make our own choices with responsibility for our people and our planet as well as our sporran. Lets stick firmly to this message and perhaps replace the controversial banner with a new one which says ‘No more Imperial Masters’ Darth McVader face 😉
a bit o/t –
The BBC are showing one of the English Royal Family giving his approval by his visit to a middle eastern country that has been challenged by the UN to justify its recent actions in using snipers to shoot and kill protesters during recent protests.
Livestream has been covering the protest in Glasgow a protest against arming this same country .
The contrast is pretty startling , the BBC cover the visit thousands of miles away yet fails to mention the protest they can actually see and probably hear from their windows .
Aye its a great thing this Democracy lark . I wonder when we are getting some here .
Follow the Money, Robert.
Who are the Windsors’ Bankers?
Many of us whom were there on Saturday were unaware of this banner, and unwittingly, will have been seen behind it at some point during the event resulting in many being seen to support this message when they do not.
The group whom own this banner should think hard about what it is saying and realise that it’s not appropriate for an inclusive even and replace it with something better.
Just think about it for a mo. What does “Tories out” actually signify? The Tories aren’t in power in Edinburgh, so it couldn’t refer to the “Scottish” lot. So where are the Tories in power…?
…Oh yes, in London. Because they have a majority (of sorts) in the English Parliament of Westminster.
So why does any so-called supporter of Scottish independence care so much about who rules in London? Tory or Labour (with or without a side order of LibDem), they’re all effing useless if you want Scottish independence. And if the English want Tories to rule over them, that’s their choice, and the consequences are their problem, not ours.
You only care about who’s in charge in London if you’re stuck in the past and still a damn Unionist at heart.
True indy supporters should be chanting “LONDON OUT”.
Get with it, peeps!