Does anyone have any idea yet of what’s going to happen to the country over the coming weeks, even the coming days? Because the British government and the official opposition sure as hell don’t. They’re more concerned about their own parties and their own careers than they are about Britain’s impending flouncing off from the EU, Scotland becoming independent, the Northern Irish peace process being sacrificed on the altar of Tory selfishness, or an economy that’s as threatened with extinction as the rhinoceros. It’s easier for them that way. When you’re facing with a catastrophe of unthinkable proportions, it’s a lot easier to argue about the colour of the wallpaper in the Cabinet meeting room than to try and wrap your wee heid around the enormity of the flustercluck that you’re responsible for.
Vote Leave wiped out the hopes of a generation, wiped out the United Kingdom as a union, and wiped out any chance of an open tolerant and inclusive country, and now they’ve wiped their website too. They don’t want anyone reminding them of all the lies they told and the dubious promises that they made in order to win the EU referendum. Uncomfortable promises like the one they made to invest £350 million a week in the NHS, promises that they’re now frantically trying to deny that they ever made in the first place. They’ve managed to break Davie Cameron’s previous record for backtracking on commitments made during a referendum when he stood up the morning after the Scottish referendum and announced it had really been about England all along.
On Monday morning chancellor George Osborne finally crawled out from under the rock where he’s been hiding to make a speech in an attempt to calm the markets. He succeeded in much the same way that that annoying guy in Jurassic Park succeeded in giving a velociraptor a severe case of indigestion, and indeed George managed to look like he was about to be devoured by the press and the markets. Which he was. Jurassic Park has now gone on to reopen its doors three times, and despite a record of unmitaged disaster somehow manages to keep getting public liability insurance. But no one is opening their doors to George Osborne any more. The markets are not prepared to insure Britain’s decision to throw itself to the dinosaurs of the Tory right. Britain has just lost the prized Triple A rating that was the hallmark of a leading economy.
The Labour party is incapable of taking advantage of the Tory disarray and putting forward a positive vision of a Brexit in which workers’ rights are protected because they’re far too busy with yet another of their interminable civil wars. They make Game of Thrones seem peaceful. This time the Blairite tendency on the shadow cabinet hasn’t bothered merely to stab Jeremy Corbyn in the back, they’ve stabbed him in the back, in the front, sideways, and dropped the dead weight of Ian Murray on top of him for good measure.
Corbyn has been forced to appoint a whole slew of non-entities to the shadow cabinet to replace the non-entities who have just left. At the time of writing there wasn’t a shadow Scotland Secretary amongst them. Labour only has the one Scottish MP, and he’s just demonstrated that his zeal to get rid of his boss is greater than his desire to tackle the Tories when they are weaker and more divided than they’ve been at any time in living memory. So Scotland has no voice in the official opposition, has Fluffy Mundell as the voice of the Tory cabinet in Scotland but not the voice of Scotland in the cabinet, we’re about to be taken out of the EU against our will, and there’s no one in either the UK government or the official opposition who is fighting Scotland’s case.
It’s not like we didn’t know already that Westminster doesn’t give a toss about Scotland. Amidst all the upset over Westminster’s breaking one of the main promises it made to Scotland in order to ensure we’d stay a part of the UK, another of their promises was sunk today too. The MoD has announced that it’s not after all going to go ahead this year with the construction of eight Type 26 frigates on the Clyde. Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has said that he’s not going to sign off on the deal until he receives reassurances that it’s good value for money, although that never appeared to be a consideration for the MoD when it decided it wanted to renew Trident. So there you go, are there any promises that Westminster made to Scotland during the independence referendum that they’ve actually kept?
Let’s face it, Scotland currently has all the disadvantages of independence with none of the advantages. There is absolutely no one in any position of power or influence in the UK government who is fighting Scotland’s corner. There is no one in the official opposition who is putting the case for Scotland. All we’ve got is the Scottish government and parliament and the unofficial opposition of 54 SNP MPs. The fight to put Scotland’s case, to make Scotland’s voice heard, comes from within Scotland. We’re getting no help from anyone in the British establishment. Scotland looks at Westminster and its parties and asks itself, “What is the point of you?” There’s no answer.
We have no need for a Westminster which is holding us back, holding us down, and taking us in a direction in which we’ve expressly said that we don’t want to go. Today as Westminster debated the Brexit vote, Angus Robertson spoke for many in Scotland when he said that Scotland voted to remain a European nation, and we will not be ripped out of Europe against our will. Westminster’s little men and women with their red white and blue imaginations and their delusional vanities of British exceptionalism can do as they please, but the days when they could drag an unwilling Scotland about against our will are over. Scotland will not consent to Brexit.
Scotland’s independence movement is currently the only organised political force in the United Kingdom. Let’s get started. Let’s get going. We’ve got a lot of work to do. I’m up for it. I know you are too. Independence is on the horizon.
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I would like to be convinced, but the problem of the currency remains. The £ (that’s no independence at all), the Euro (but look what the European Central Bank did to Greece), or our independent untried currency at a time when everyone’s economic prospects are buried by the afterfart of Boris’s bullshitting, and our own books are rather more difficult to balance than they were before the oil price collapsed?
Start with the £ (not a currency union, just using Sterling) and keep the Scottish bank notes. Move (IMHO as rapidly as is sensible) to a full currency board – i.e. a Scottish £ (though feel free to come up with a new name if desired) where every £1 of Scottish pound that it’s in circulation is backed by £1 of rUK Sterling and exchangeable upon demand (this maintains the parity, but the Sterling £’s could actually be invested in gilts thus meaning the UK government would be paying interest to Scotland helping fund us!). Later on move to a fully floating Scottish £ that’s decoupled from Sterling. Even later on from that maybe adopt the Euro …
It’s the approach that worked, by-and-large, for the Irish Free State & Republic of Ireland.
As for what the ECB did to Greece, well whilst accepting that Greece should never have been admitted to the Euro in first place, the Greeks did kind of bring it on themselves. It’s not like the ECB has a hard-on for crushing small countries, Austria, Belgium, the Netherlands for instance don’t seem to have problems …
to compare Greece to Scotland is wel stupid. I favour a Scottish Currency,
Will there be a Better Together No group this time .It seems that Ruth and her wee band of losers are the only ones resisting a second Referendum.
Better Alone? Doesn’t have the same ring to it. I doubt that she’ll get grass roots support for staying in Boris’ UK now.
We must grasp the thistle now.
OT Poor England. It seems that they are not one of Europe’s leading football nations.
Touche Jack.
The only consolation rests in the thought that all those so called “fans” of England shown on Channel 4 news last night singing about voting to come out of Europe must have been heard by the England squad because their wishes were certainly granted last night.
Of course the currency is an issue, but we have to grab this opportunity. Our opponents are divided, we can have the freedom to achieve freedom.
Dave, I just caught a clip of Farage in Brussels demonstrating what a smug bastard he really is.
The UK is thrown into disarray,the neo Nazis are out in force, the pound has plummeted against the dollar and the Euro, and this man smirks.
I’ll say it again Sterlingisation – you have to start somewhere. Everyone who ever broke off from the UK did it this way
False dichotomy.
There’s nothing stopping us using the Norwegian Krone (for example), and last I heard, their economy is pretty similar to ours (similar populations, lots of oil, lots of sea-industry), so it would work quite well. They might even give us some official recognition about it if we ask nice.
Also, a good chunk of Edinburgh’s city centre is already a dual-currency zone (English Pound/Euro), and some of it is a triple-currency zone (Add USA Dollars), all to make life easy for the tourists. Unofficially, of course, but look at what the shops are willing to take.
I’ve been banging on about this for a few days now, mostly to point out that there are other currencies available to use than the detractors keep talking about, *if* we have to use someone else’s currency, but also because I think a Scotland/Norway alliance of some form would be a sodding powerhouse.
hear hear, Illy. We have more in common with our Northern neighbours than the SE, especially now.
I don’t see Lord Darling or the Clunking fists selling Better Together now. WE clearly aren’t, as the Remain vote showed.
It is unthinkable that we would merely roll over and let England drag us out of Europe.
Independence is inevitable now.
Paul, you want the price of oil to go up !
What about the 1.5 million vehicles on Scotland’s roads and their users now saving on average £350-£500 a year on fuel ?
What about the benefit to other sectors as:
a/ people prop up the banks leverage by their saving account deposits as they put away a little bit extra.
b/ spend a little extra on personal items, boosting the economy which creates jobs.
What about the transport industry and engineering now enjoying better productivity due to lower oil prices ?
What about council savings, the chemical industries having an easier time.
And what about the low prices potentially holding off fracking because, as we witness in the USA, it makes it unprofitable ?
How many £billions do you think are being saved by individuals and businesses due to low oil prices ?
But here’s a suggestion, to make up a little for the loss in government revenue, charge every vehicle another £100 a year. Have a rolling road tax reflecting oil prices, when the price is high, lower the tax as it will be made up in government revenue. When the price is low, car users can afford a little more road tax from the fuel savings to pay the government to make up from loss of oil revenues.
There’s a little solution that might help iron out the ‘volatility’ of the commodity.
I’d like to ask you a question. As Westminster still control the vast bulk of our economic/tax/welfare and business policies, what happens when the oil either runs out (or becomes unprofitable to extract) or becomes morally corrupt due to climate change ?
How will Westminster look after us then after they have spent decades dismantling our industries and failing to replace them. Just look at North East England or the Welsh Valleys or indeed, Scotland’s Central belt or Clydeside ?
What plans have been put in place to replace industry in the North East ?
Cameron promised us a £200bn oil bonanza if we voted ‘No’ in 2014. Can you tell me where it is please ?
For indyref2 the pro-indy parties should propose Scotland’s own currency [The Merk?] and guarantee a future referendum on Scotland’s position in or out of the EU.
The Euro option isn’t available – you’d need to meet the entry criteria AND join the ERM for a trial period first. For me personally it’s not an issue as it’s just the ‘thing’ used to convert labour into goods or services – what it’s called has no effect on the economic viability or credit rating of a country, an iScotland is most definitely economically viable and resource rich!
I get so bored with this. MONEY IS NOT REAL! Use your noggin. It is a means of exchange. If the Co-op takes the beer cans you have for spuds you can eat. If your employer pays you in beer cans which the Co takes. Whats the problem? If Albert Bartlett takes the cans off the Co for his spuds you have exchange. And if Douglas Park takes the cans off Albert for a new Bentley you have a whole chain of exchanges in beer cans.
We can have any currency we want. It can be chocolate blocks or photies of Nicola. As long as all the parties in the transaction are agreed then its fine.
Scotland runs a trade surplus. We are self sufficient in all the staples of life. Germans will take the beer cans in exchange for Bentleys too, cos they will be in demand from people who want to buy our salmon, our hooch, our oil and our seafood.
This is so bloody basic. MONEY IS NOT REAL.
Oh and that oil which collapsed to 30 dollars and was worth £20 a barrel a few months back is now at 50 dollars which is now £40 a barrel. Did you see that on any front page? 8% of 100 is less than 100% of 40.
Get up off your knees man!
Wow!
Can you post this analogy to the SNP please? I would love Sturgeon to use it. Excellent summary of a non-issue that was needlesly turned into a huge problem for indyref1
Agree – the currency thing is a red herring. We can keep using the pound if we want – or the dollar for that matter. Or we can resurrect the Scottish pound or even the merk and peg it to the pound or the dollar or even the euro.
As Salmond said at the time, there’s plan A, B, C, D and E.
As for oil – it’s a finite resource so in the longer term the only way is up in terms of price. But, in any case, the movement for independence was never predicated on high oil prices.
Paul is right. We are all (well most of us anyway) still out here, still wanting independence, still fully charged and ready to go. It will be a herculean task to persuade the majority but we are more than up for it.
This time, much more so than the last, the referendum will be ours to lose – which is why Nicola won’t go until she is convinced we can win and win well.
As the UK starts to crumble socially and economically as a result of Brexit which way are the citizens of Scotland going to turn – more of the same or a more positive alternative.
If we chose more of the same then hell mend us all.
Well said Davidbsb. Come on Paul Braterman grow a pair and stop believing all the pish from WM and the MSM. Open your eyes, and your mind, and go and find some real information. It’s out there if you look.
Stop being a feartie. Like the man said, “there is nothing to fear but fear itself”. Come on in, the water is lovely.
“Vote Leave wiped out the hopes of a generation, wiped out the United Kingdom as a union, and wiped out any chance of an open tolerant and inclusive country, and now they’ve wiped their website too.”
Yep they were a dishonest bunch, but the voters who supported Brexit – for whatever reason – have probably done everyone a huge favour. It may get a bit messy, especially in England as Pandora’s doing a jig throughout the counties presently, but hopefully the natives will rise to the occasion once the mists start to clear. Let’s hope for a peaceful revolution rather than a civil war, but that’s probably naive in the extreme. Interesting times – and we have Chilcot in a fortnight…
I totally agree and I’m up for the debate. Something I hear all the time, and which I think needs to be a priority to address is that lame idea that Scotland can never survive alone. It’s not true, and I’d like to see a really positive message put out there about Scots who have achieved. Not just historic figures, but normal people who prove that if we put our back into it, we have the strength of character to prevail.
Let’s find positive answers to all the project fear statements, and sing them from the rooftops. While we’re at it, let’s confront the currency issue, our border, and oil and gas head on and say we’re not afraid to use the Euro, a border with England isn’t a disaster, and who cares really about oil and gas; they’re nice to have but seriously, our renewable energy resources and vast intellectual capital in world class universities will give us a future. If the economy dips for a bit, it’s not the end of the world because we have a government that believes in a fairer society and with independence we can change/abolish those poverty inducing laws like the bedroom tax.
While I admire your sentiment Michelle, that been done and it didn’t work.
From 2011 to 2014 we talked, we shared, we ranted , we got excited, we looked at every country we could find and explored good ideas to see if we could make them work. We talked about fairness and freedom, about love and charity – a written constitution to protect not only our people but our environment. We had bad ideas, we had good ideas, but at the end of the day, we felt the most important thing – alive and engaged and living life. We were generous of spirit.
Then we switched on our TV or opened the newspaper and found out that we were all nazis sympathisers with bulls**t ideas and crazy notions. We were not to be trusted, we were deranged. we lived in fantasyland and we were dangerous to democracy.
Exactly the same thing again is starting up right now with the BBC, our main protagonist. Seriously, this ‘hug a No voter’ might work for so long, but at the end of the day, this time round I’m concentrating on the utter nightmare of Westminster. It’s not Project Fear, because Project Fear is a fear of the unknown. This is reality. The utter shambles we find ourselves in today and the way our nation is talked about – that’s what needs to be shouted from the rooftops (along with some good positive stuff as well !)
I’d be really keen to try and get the message out that a yes vote for an independent Scotland is not the same as a vote for the SNP and that you don’t need to like Ms Sturgeon in order to vote yes. I already feel like I’m repeating this mantra ad nauseum!
Does anyone have any idea….(wavy lines)
Somewhere in Whitehall –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
YUPPFURRIT?
Damn skippy! 🙂
Aye, Macart – UPPFURRIT! – and we’re the ones that’ll be coming at night.
Its the Norwegians again.
http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Thistle-National-Emblem-of-Scotland/
I usually agree word for word with your comments but must say that when the SNP appointed their spokespeople they were non entities. They grew into the job as will Corbyns new team. People like Clive Lewis are doing an excellent job. So come on, give them a chance. There is an attempted coup taking place of an elected leader by the non entities that have been sacked and resigned.
[…] Wee Ginger Dug Let’s get organised […]
Given the miniscule readership of my blog, I don’t think Corbyn and co are likely to be following my suggestions…
But I’m crossing my fingers – both for those who want Scottish independence and those who want Corbyn as Labour Leader – that there’s a chance they’ll be contemplating the strategy I put forward for Labour relations with Scotland yesterday:
I will read it mate.
I’m up for it.
Here is the link to the likely candidates in competition with BoJo the clown for the Tory PM’s job: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqObJtGrKaA
I would be very worried about another Indy ref. Indy ref 2 will be a bloody nightmare, our large shambolic poverty stricken neighbour will go absolutely bat shit crazy to stop us. I would like to see a deal done with Europe in that Scotland becomes the successor state and we just walk away as an independent country. Basically England voted brexit to become independent. That’s it game over.We are not an occupied country and have decided to take a different route.
Listened to most of the Parliamentary farce this afternoon. Not sure what it looked like or how it came across in Scotland but from where I was sitting it absolutely reflected the total current detachment from reality which exists down here in Big Rock Candy Mountain land. No one actually said the words “no surrender” but that’s what was meant with every reply regarding Scotland and NI, repeating the mantra that “we” voted as the UK, “we” will negotiate as the UK neglecting only to add the statement of the bleedin’ obvious that if England goes down the rest of the UK is going down with us.
Westminster and the British Establishment are now the NRA of the eastern seaboard of the North Atlantic, stating in unequivocal terms that the end of the Union will have to be wrested from its cold dead hands whilst at the same time determined to use the current chaos it has unleashed to damage the rival union across the Channel. Scotland will get no aid from the artistes formally known as the Shadow Cabinet as the Trojon horses released into the body politic of the Labour Party over decades is activated to ensure no alternative develops.
On today’s showing it is clear to a blind man on a galloping horse that a referendum may not be sufficient to deliver Scottish Independence and that some more robust contingencies are likely to be required.
My thoughts too. The yoons in westmonster will fight to keep Scotland shackled. They do not care about Scotland, or Ireland or Wales and display utter contempt for our democratically elected SNP MPs. If it has to be a referendum, it must be very soon, with no long drawn out campaign. Though the yoons, with their arrogant, abusive and dismissive attitude toward Scotland, could be plotting against, while pretending to agree to another indy ref.
I suspect you are not a footy obsessive Paul, but I can’t wait to read your next article. 😁
That wasn’t the smiley I used.
Dunno if I’ll have time to write one. What with me being busy learning Icelandic.
Skal. 🙂
Currency: the Irish example would repay careful examnation.
Wiped Leave website? Missed that the first time round. One thing worth orgainsing would be a collection of as many screenshots of it as we can. I’ve got Boris and the bus on my own blog (at Dispatches from a failing state, https://paulbraterman.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/dispatches-from-a-failing-state/ , reblogged with my comments from the admirable Wandering Gaia.
What was the URL? I’ll see if my techie friends can retrieve anything
Most (maybe all?) is archived in the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/*/voteleavetakecontrol.org
Maybe off topic, but shouldn’t Roy Hodgson be part of the U.K/E.U. separation negotiations team, having experience of taking losers out of Europe? Just saying…:-)
Knocked out of the Euros by Iceland, knocked out of Europe by people who shop at Iceland.
A small point perhas, but you can still get Boris and the Bus, with pledge, at http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-11/uk-does-get-back-some-of-350m-it-sends-to-eu-boris-johnson-admits/ or http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/update/2016-05-11/vote-leave-battle-bus-unveiled/ or http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Boris+Johnson+Gisela+Stuart+Aboard+Leave+Campaign+2h6u6MbBv-Xl.jpg
The party has just begun. There is much more to happen in the weeks and months ahead. What we need now is to coldly watch them slithering and sliding in the mud of their own conceited arrogance; know that they will attack us regardless and strike when the moment is right. All metaphorically speaking of course.
But I am sure that is the plan the SNP is adopting.
And just think, we even have a good government in place with a proper plan for winning the peace.
Timing is going to be critical but Nicola has made it patently clear that she understands that. No headlong rush onto the sucker punch. We have to box clever.
.
The point she’s waiting for, I can almost guarantee, is when she’s tried all the other options, so can legitimately present the question on the ballot paper as “Which union would you rather be a part of: UK or EU” and legitimately take the EU vote as pro-independence.
Fcking aa! My body is ready!
I don’t care which currency, we just need independence asap. A friend of mine, she is historically apolitical to say the least, livid at brexit, is determined that we should be independent even if it means we sink. She reckons better to be our own masters than go down with the yoons!
For her to be so animated about politics means that there has been a major shift in how people, who felt less enthusiastic about their own country being independent, now feel passionately that our very survival depends on it. Just hope it does happen.
The so-called united kingdom is disintegrating. The pound will soon be irrelevant.
Just listened into BBC Radio Jordanhill.
Downgrade of UK Credit Rating .loads of business people spouting the usual Better Together nonsense. WE voted to stay in 2014, so despite 63% voting Remain it’s perfectly fine for England to drag us out of Europe.
WE must get out of this Union.
There will be a lot of BBC folk moving South when it happens.
Events still moving at an alarming speed this morning. EU debate in Holyrood 2pm today. I suspect Ruth the mooth will try to fight a party corner in a time of public crisis. Still, at least she’s consistent then.
Right now? Live debate from Brussels: Farage taking a pasting from the assembly and Juncker enacting a Presidential ban on contact with UK officials until Article 50 triggered.
Very revealing reaction from the European Parliament in this mornings session to the contributions from the SNP and SF speakers.
What is clear is that the allies which the UK state brought into Europe from its successful policy of widening membership to get access to the cheap Eastern European labour rather than deepening the integration of the existing membership at the time is now being used to try and destroy not just the institutions and relationships since the end of WW2 in Europe, rather than improve them, but also the very idea of cooperation between people’s which are the founding principles of the project.
This is a long way from being over. What we are witnessing is a right wing nationalistic extremism dedicated to dragging Europe and the world backwards to a technologically feudal dystopia. Right wing fascist groups in Holland, Denmark, France, Germany, Hungry, Austria, and other parts of Europe are now not only further encouraged by last week’s vote they are positively salivating at the prospect that tomorrow belongs to them.
The UK hasn’t simply taken an economically suicidal turn, its taken a dark and isolationist turn. The news over the past few days in a marked rise of racially motivated incidents should alarm and appal in equal measure. The very thing they accused the YES campaign of representing has proven to be at the heart of significant sections of the ‘UKs’ right wing politics.
The UK and its politics is indulging in the most insane orgy of self harm I’ve ever seen. Farage’s self indulgent, lemming like act of gloating isn’t just alienating major player’s in the EU which the UK government will have to negotiate with, its going to have a direct impact on the UK population.
Those other nation’s isolationist parties encouraged by Farage’s 15mins also must remember you require mandates in elections and referendums in order to effect change. Memories sadly, for some, are short. A Europe of strangers with closed minds and closed borders worked so well last century. The EU has major flaws. Flaws which require addressing if it is to survive as an entity. If it is to pass from history, fail from lack of will to change, the world will have taken a step backward.
Madness. Utter madness.
“Juncker enacting a Presidential ban on contact with UK officials until Article 50 triggered.”
Do you have a linkable source for that? It’s *MASSIVE* if its true.
Wish I had, but it was a live feed at the time. Its still on SKY newscasts right now so may be on their twitter feed if you do twitter.
lets do what the brexiters did vote for independance sort everything out later simples
Farage stops just short of threatening Germany with economic hardship if the right deal isn’t cut (FFS!) and Alyn Smith receives a standing ovation from the chamber.
Reblogged this on Cbmilne33’s Blog.
Link for Alyn Smith piece:
HERE
I suspect given the reaction of the chamber to Mr Farage, the EU will be somewhat more vocal in support of Scotland in a future indyref. 🙂
If you just skimmed over the comment, I urge you to read davidbsb’s contribution above. money is a holding position, for your assets, whilst you determine your next move.
promissory note : signed document containing a written promise to pay a stated amount on demand.
So: Is a promissory note issued by Scotland sound? Scotland is a net exporter of goods and services. We have surplus oil, gas, and renewable energy resources to our needs. We export foods and beverages.A strong financial services sector – with integrity I would add. So of course a promissory note, i.e. a Scottish currency would be successful in the global markets.
Get off your knees, your opposition is Farage, Johnston, et al. Do they scare you?