Blog break

Just a quick note to let everyone know that we have an old friend staying with us this week so I won’t be updating the blog for a few days. Normal ranting service will be resumed on Monday. In the meantime there will no doubt be plenty to keep you all occupied in the comments section such as the remark by privatisation loving Labour shadow health minister Wes Streeting that the shortcomings in the Welsh NHS, where there is a Labour administration, are ultimately the responsibility of Westminster funding squeezes. Anas Sarwar must be beelin’ as he grandstands on the NHS just about every week at First Minister’s Questions, and now one of his London bosses has just pulled the rug from out underneath him.
Labour can’t have it both ways, if the problems besetting the Labour run NHS in Wales are fundamentally due to a funding issue originating in Westminster, as Streeting claimed, then Labour cannot argue that similar issues besetting NHS Scotland are the responsibility of the Scottish Government and Westminster has nothing to do with it. Mind you that won’t stop Anas Sarwar from trying.

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120 comments on “Blog break

  1. beth says:

    Enjoy your friend’s visit

  2. Robert Oliphant says:

    I live in hope that when the GE campaign “officially” begins, that a Labour “activist”, or even better the candidate themselves, knocks on my door!

    As someone who’s worked in NHS Finance for 36 years, I’m looking forward to dispensing a few home truths!

    Enjoy the blog break/friend visit!

  3. Alex Montrose says:

    Streeting’s comment on the NHS is a cracker, I’ve already used the meme on the Couriers fb page on a Scotland is shite story, about the NHS in Fife.

  4. scottish_skier says:

    Hae a guid holiday Paul. Looks like good weather!

    Meantime, anyone know which parliament and politician parties were in charge of Scotland’s NHS in the 1970’s and 80’s?

    Also which political party organised an enquiry into in the contaminated blood scandal in Scotland after that as a key pledge in 2007, with the report published in 2015? And which government hamstrung this enquiry by not giving it permission to compel witness from the rUK to give evidence?

    Thanks in advance.

  5. deelsdugs says:

    Have a braw wee break 🙄

  6. scottish_skier says:

    So, not much to go on so far, but found we have two time series to work with, one from Ipsos, Edinburgh, Scotland and another from Savanata, London, England. Now the IPSOS one is a panel poll, so that may be disadvantaging Swinney somewhat. Savanata is definitely disadvantaging him due to the apparent sampling artefacts we have at present.

    This makes the results particularly amazing, as both are showing clear positive trends for Swinney, and for overly unionist respondent pools. That indicates that unionists are warming Swinney like we know they are to independence.

    Beats me why Brits like the polls at the moment. Maybe it’s their failure = success thing?

    It does very much remind me of 2011 where all polling data said Scots thought labour were rubbish. Gray was a pants leader, Labour were not trusted, they would not make a good government etc… Yet headline VI had them on for a majority. By contrast, Scots were increasingly rating Salmond and the SNP in terms of performance, yet SNP VI was low 30’s.

    Then the electorate started to engage and the rest is history. Enjoy Paul and co:

    Soaring Swinney:

    Vs yesterday’s sinking Starmer:

    https://imgur.com/WKLFImj

    • scottish_skier says:

      Aye, as I said must be the case. Swinney’s positive ratings are coming from former unionist party voters, not just SNP. This has to be the case if he can get good rating in polls that are favouring unionists due to oversampling.

      Positive ratings from Lab, Lib and SNP 2019. Only Tories have him strongly negative, which is excellent news too.

      Looks to me that Sarwar, Ross and Cole-Hamilton were idiots to take out Yousaf. They replaced someone they saw a decent threat to the union with someone that’s an even bigger threat.

  7. DrJim says:

    NHS, Post office, Waspi women, English water, British rail, Oil and Gas, Brexit, Covid contracts, and the list goes on and on of services owned and controlled by the government of the *UK* with each one disaster after disaster ending up in scandals enquiries deaths and the avoidance of compensation to people in each of the countries of the so called union that is totally under the control of the UK government as voted for by the population of England

    And this is just a short list of the fairly recent stuff

    This is the same UK government that instructed their Supreme court to create a law that says Scotland cannot democratically ask itself a question over our own future, if our Scottish government were to try to implement that which we the population of Scotland voted for they’d be arrested and tried as criminals against the Crown

    Time for a new slogan:

    “Vote union get criminals”

  8. Alex Clark says:

    Hopefully you’ll get some nice weather, enjoy the break anyway and we’ll see you when you get back.

  9. millsjames1949 says:

    Enjoy your break , Paul !

    By the time you get back Starmer will have added to his ”6 Steps” – No. 7 , Change the name of The Party to avoid their share of the fallout from the Infected Blood Scandal , ‘though he may just blame it on those pesky Socialists who used to infect The Party in those bygone days . He’s the man to deal with ”infection ”!

  10. Alex Clark says:

    I never realised that the infected blood inquiry released today could be so damaging for both current and especially so those politicians largely responsible who turned a blind eye.

    This report is so damming of the regime in power through the 70’s and 80’s that I think even the most extreme Thatcherite’s will find this difficult to explain away as “the market”.

    Despite Scotland not even having a devolved parliament in the 70’s and 80’s it has somehow found itself in the Sky News article into the report issued today as being somehow to blame.

    Sir Brian added that the Thatcher government “did not respond appropriately, urgently and proactively” to the risks of Hepatitis C and HIV transmissions through blood.

    He said the government knew there was a much higher incidence of Hepatitis in prisoners, yet “no action” was taken to stop blood donations from them, which “increased the risk of transmission”.

    The failure lied “principally at the door” of the health departments in Westminster and Scotland, he said.

    The report itself correctly points the finger at Thatcher and her Health Minister Kenneth Clarke but I can’t help thinking that the inclusion of the word “Scotland” right after “Westminster” has been deliberately inserted into the report after review by the Government of today.

    The facts are clear, it was Kenneth Clarke and other Westminster politicians who were wholly responsible for the NHS in the entire UK at the time these infections took place. Any one of them could have stopped the use of infected blood being used at any time. There is not a single person in Scotland who could have done anything about it at all at the time this was happening since there was no Government Health Department in Scotland.

    We really need to be aware of this, if any blame is being laid at the door of Westminster for any mistakes of the past they will somehow try to drag Scotland into it as well. That’s how close they feel they are to losing Scotland to Independence or should I say how close we might be to winning it.

    This is worth a read at least until something better comes along, on top of everything else recently, I think this might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and Sunak might as well have the General Election ASAP.

    https://news.sky.com/story/infected-blood-inquiry-who-is-criticised-in-new-report-13140244

    • Capella says:

      I imagine the public is a bit punch drunk by now. The Covid inquiry is ongoing, the Post Office inquiry is ongoing, raw sewage is routinely dumped in English rivers and people are coming down with parasites, prisons are over flowing too and courts can’t dispose of cases because of the backlog. Universities are shedding staff because the flow of foreign paying students has dried up, so fees will have to increase in England.

      Have I missed anything?

    • Bob Lamont says:

      I noted being promoted elsewhere “Unlike in the rest of the UK, the vast majority of infections in Scotland came from blood donations from within the country”…

    • Tatu3 says:

      I was given a blood transfusion in the late 1970s. I was lucky it wasn’t infected. Maybe it’s because I was in a wee hospital in the middle of nowhere in Lanarkshire!

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Ehm, no – It all came from the BTS no matter where you were…

        That’s what makes Pacific Quay’s article on this so preposterous – Unless Yorkhill had made prior arrangement with BTS for a specific batch to be reserved for their sole use for reasons unknown, they would have been supplied from general stock, same as your “wee hospital”…. https://archive.ph/jp0ja

        • Legerwood says:

          There is a Scottish Blood Transfusion Service. Blood collected in Scotland is dispensed in Scotland. Blood collected in England is dispensed in England. Under normal circumstances it is not Sent to Scotland.

          • Bob Lamont says:

            Mainly true – I had relatives working in Scotland’s BTS in the 70s who explained they would periodically import from England when they were running low on reserves, and vice versa when overstocked and a shortage in England. That all changed when the balloon went up and screening became an issue…

      • Legerwood says:

        Your nneed for a blood Transfusion must have been overwhelming because by the late 1970s they were being a bit more ‘stingy’ about giving blood transfusions. Partly because they were getting the first inklings that something was wrong.

        • Tatu3 says:

          I was in a very bad car crash

          • Legerwood says:

            I had a huge haemorrhage after I gave birth in late 1970s. Haemoglobin fell from over 13 to just under 11 but they said they would not give me a Transfusion. My husband was working in Blood Transfusion at the time and knew they were being very careful about giving transfusions. Although I had lost a lot of blood my haemoglobin was within normal limits – just – so they did not transfuse me.

            • Tatu3 says:

              I, still, have no memory of what happened to me. I only know what I was told after, and that was I briefly died, was given blood, don’t know how much or levels, had lots of broken bones and many, many stitches to my face (luckily for me done by a visiting leading expert on such things, I was told). I was not a pretty sight I believe with my sister being sick when she saw me and a friend fainting.

              I hope you and yours are all well and healthy now after a traumatic start

              • Capella says:

                OMG what a terrible experience that must have been. The body has a fantastic ability to heal so I hope you made a full recovery.

                Legerwood too.

              • Legerwood says:

                Yes we are fine thank you. I hope you made a full recovery. Perhaps not remembering any of it is a blessing of sorts.

  11. Alex Clark says:

    Here’s another blatant example of how this report has been “tampered” with in my opinion, this time in another article from Sky News by Beth Rigby.

    This was the absolute right response. The infected bloods scandal is one of the most horrifying failures of the state to its citizens as – to quote inquiry chairman Sir Brian Langstaff – people were “failed, not once but repeatedly, by their doctors, by the bodies [the NHS and others] responsible for the safety of their treatment, and by their governments“.

    https://news.sky.com/story/all-sides-aligned-in-non-political-day-for-apology-to-infected-blood-victims-13140394

    There were no “governments” in the UK while this scandal was taking place and what Sir Brian Langstaff the reports author is referring to when he talks about “Scotland” is the Scottish Office run by whoever government was in power in Westminster. This is from the report in the section about Scotland which is in Volume 7, I’ve removed the .pdf part of the link so as it doesn’t embed here

    https://www.infectedbloodinquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/Volume-7

    The backdrop to what follows is that prior to 1999, there was administrative devolution in Scotland: other than matters such as foreign policy, defence and social security, everything – including policy in relation to health – fell within the powers of the Scottish Office.

    At the same time, as Lord Michael Forsyth explained in his evidence to the Inquiry, “we were one Government” On matters of health, the Scottish Office largely followed the lead of the Department of Health.

    That position fundamentally changed in 1999 with the establishment of the Scottish Parliament and of a Scottish Executive.

    https://www.infectedbloodinquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/Volume-7.

    What we are witnessing here is a rewriting of history in which it appears that the “Scottish Government” who did not exist were just as bad as the Westminster Government who were the people in charge.

    This is how the media can include “Scotland” in their damming reports as if we were as much to blame as the bastards who were. This is not an accident, “now they come to fight you”. That’s where we are now.

    • scottish_skier says:

      In 1972, the Parliament of Northern Ireland was abolished and direct English rule imposed 6 weeks after bloody Sunday.

    • Legerwood says:

      “… their treatment, and by their governments“. you have misinterpreted that phrase in the report. There were successive governments, and they were UK Westminster Govs, involved from the 1970s to the 1990s: Callaghan, Labour; Thatcher, the Major, Tories. From 1990s onwards it was the various UKGovs – Blair, Brown, Labour; Cameron, Clegg, Tory/LibDem then Tory, Tory Tory.

      The Governments are the UKGovs over the last 50 years who have obstructed, lied, covered-up all supported by the UK Civil Service

      • Alex Clark says:

        I might have but what can explain this?

        The failure lied “principally at the door” of the health departments in Westminster and Scotland, he said.

        Since there was no Scottish government there could not have been a Scottish Health Department. I see such words as being deliberately misleading.

        So to me the writing of “… their treatment, and by their governments“ could just as easily imply a Westminster and Scottish government as well as a succession of Westminster governments.

        • Alex Clark says:

          Shoddy writing by the journalist at Sky news.

          “The failure lied…”

          Those were obviously not the words of the reports author and explains why it is not in italics in the article as he never used those words at all.

        • Legerwood says:

          There was a ‘Scottish Health Department’ which was part of the Scottish Office from the inception of NHS Scotland until devolution in 1999

        • UndeadShaun says:

          NHS Scotland has always been seperate from the rest of the uk. And legally is not allowed to share patient data without jumping through hoops.

          There was a scottish health department, which folloed goals and targets set by secretary of state for scotland.

          who is of course a member of westminster government.

          NHS in Scotland has always been a seperate organisation since the nhs existed. and even before the nhs existed in Scotland. Health was seperate since 1707.

          And Scotland pioneered social healthcare with Highlands and Islands Medical Service (HIMS) before the NHS was created.

          more info this subject here…..https://peopleshistorynhs.org/encyclopaedia/scotland-and-the-national-health-service/

  12. pogmothon says:

    Forgive me if I am wrong, but I was young at the time but have we all forgotten the NHS’s and westminster’s first total cluster f**k up. THALIDOMIDE. The death rate for the victims is, was horrifying. Untold numbers of miscarriages as a result of this medication. And the artificially shortened life of a great many of the survivors. and the ever decreasing head count of those left with ongoing complicated medical needs and inadequate support or compensation. No the “contaminated blood scandal” is not a one off, or something new, WESTMINSTER AS FORM.

  13. scottish_skier says:

    Latest English Yougov poll of the Scotch is just more of the same rubbish VI like early 2011.

    What’s interesting is the Tory collapse in Scotland is not being hidden so much anymore by sampling problems. It’s now emerging here. They are tanking (just 12% from a very pro-union English pollster) and Labour is benefitting in ‘British Scotland’. English R&W polls of us jockish are showing the same. It’s the exact pattern seen in England where Tories are saying they likely won’t vote, helping Labour, while Labour have not actually really made any progress in terms of winning anyone over. However, as ‘Scottish Scots’ disengage, so our own polls look more like English ones given samples become dominated by more British folks. Hence Reform surging and whatnot lol. 13% ‘other’. Oki-doki! I don’t button up the back English Tory pollster owners!

    Combined unionist party share of the total electorate remains no further forward on 2019. Edges down a bit on average in fact.

    What’s causing the more labour VI is the record joint lowest turnout prediction found by Yougov in many years, and along with Survation, the lowest turnouts of all predicted. These are super low numbers. To compare, Yougov had 67% certain to vote in their final 2019 poll which underestimated SNP. This one had just 59%. That’s a huge fall. 1/10 voters from last time are ‘missing’ from the sample. Optimistically for the UK, we are looking at another 36% turnout UK equivalent (SNP/Green/Alba voters don’t count here as they want indy). That’s dire.

    I’ve not seen Scots this turned off by UK politics since 2012- early 2014 when polls showed Yes falling back to the low 30’s, when of course it had actually risen from 40 to 45%, and SNP support was approaching 50%, not 30% as polling suggested.

    But the more Scots turn off Britain, the more polling will seem to favour it, ironic as that is, as least outside of campaigns. Going to be like that until Scots have an opportunity to affect change. Only then do they engage and you start to see what they plan to do.

    What’s nice is Yougov can’t help but find Scots want another referendum on indy in the next 5 years, no matter how hard they try from London to find otherwise. Nice wee majority on average in the last month:

    Also this lol. Swinney the most popular of all leaders after just a few weeks in the job and with artefacts overwhelmingly favouring unionists.

    NET favourable / unfavourable:

    -3% Swinney
    -9% Sarwar
    -11% Starmer
    -34% Ross
    -61% Sunak

    Golden rule says the SNP will win an election even if Labour seem to be ahead on VI based on leadership ratings once more.

    • scottish_skier says:

      Hey hey, once again more unionist samples think he’ll be a good FM.

      Do you think John Swinney will do a good or bad job as First Minister for Scotland?
      35% Good
      31% Bad
      33% DK

      That’s nuts. Sunak and Starmer would kill for that kind of thumbs up.

      F**k me, Swinney is top of the list and positive in leadership ratings in the worst polling possible for the SNP due to SNP voter disengagement. As a rule, this should bode very well when engagement happens.

    • Alex Clark says:

      I think it’s clear, the polls of around 1000 people are NOT anywhere near representative of the entire population of Scotland. This will only become clear once we have the General election.

      My own personal view of looking ta the predictive power of UK polls in recent years is that they are only fit for the bin. Ignore them, they are basically… shite.

      • scottish_skier says:

        You only have to look at mid term polls vs election outcomes to know that the former are, as a rule, generally a pile of sh*te. It beats me why people, including PMs like Theresa May and hopefuls like Keir Starmer, put so much faith in them.

        If the certain to vote level is low, then poll = guff. If it’s super low, then it’s super guff. The latter is where we are, and why we have such total contradictions. Here is a dead giveaway:

        Yougov 17th May with changes on 29th April

        John Swinney
        35(+10) Favourable
        38(-2)% Unfavourable
        26(-9)% Don’t know
        -3(+12)% NET

        Keir Starmer
        37(+2) Favourable
        48(-)% Unfavourable
        15(-1)% Don’t know
        -11(+2)% NET

        Anas Sarwar
        26(-3) Favourable
        39(+1)% Unfavourable
        35(+1)% Don’t know
        -13(-4)% NET

        English Yougov also have Swinney soaring, and he’s overtaken his nearest rivals in less than 3 weeks. That’s 3 pollsters all saying he’s soaring, including Scottish IPSOS. So I think we can conclude he’s off to a brilliant start.

        Yet Yougov have Labour’s VI for Westminster with it’s biggest gap over SNP yet. This comically contradictory square needs circled somehow.

        It’s easy. Labour are being oversampled due to SNP despondency / disengagement, and Con too. That artificially inflates Labour’s lead over both. Yet at the same time, Labour / unionist voters are steadily going off their own leadership, which we know is happening, and this poll has the same. Combined, Sarwar and Starmer are down yet again on average. Ross and Sunak too. The consistent decline for all continues.

        We’ve had all the same contradictions before when SNP voters disengaged under a barrage of negative attacks, being told their cause was finished etc. Like Yes support falling 2012-2014 when it was really rising. SNP falling over the same period when it was of course heading for 50%, up from 45% in 2011. 2009-Q2 2011 was the same, SNP were heading for a Holyrood landslide, yet polls said Labour were.

        In all such cases, you saw glaring polling contradictions, with a mismatch with leadership being a classic. Salmond was soaring while Gray was stuck in the doldrums. Sturgeon was soaring while Lamont / Murphy / Miliband were crashing and so forth. Mid term, the trend in leadership is what to look for to gauge the way the wind is blowing. Not absolute values, but trends. Right now, this looks very good for Swinney / the SNP in the firsts sets of polls we have.

        If polls are inflating your opponents, but your leadership are soaring in them while their own crash, then your opponents voters must be warming to your party and going off their own. It cannot be explained otherwise. So you can expect, when the engagement happens, you have your own voters turning out for you, plus those that have come from your opponents.

        Which is exactly what happened in the 6 weeks ahead of 2011. Also just after iref1 late 2014 ahead of 2015. In both cases, polls turned on their heads in a very short space of time.

        It’s not just Yes Scots disengaged right now, it’s Tories in England too. Hence Labour are apparently well ahead there, even though they’ve not really won over anyone since the disaster of 2019. It’s why Starmer’s rating are totally rubbish, yet he seems to have a big lead. That’s your classic mid-term contradiction which tells you VI is pants. He’s no Tony Blair. Much more a Miliband.

        A seasoned veteran who’s been through it all many times before explains:

        https://archive.ph/N9elK

        Labour ‘not ambitious enough’ for supporters and polls will tighten, says Kinnock

        Neil Kinnock has said Labour supporters would like to see more ambitious policies in Keir Starmer’s manifesto and that the party must prepare for its lead in the opinion polls to shrink in the run up to the election.

        In an interview with i, the former Labour leader said he puts Sir Keir’s more cautious approach down to trying to attract enough votes from non-traditional supporters in order to become the largest party in the House of Commons this year.

        He added that the election is “a long way away” and that the opinion polls were likely to tighten as it gets closer.

        “Whether that means Labour is the largest party or wins a majority, I don’t know,” Lord Kinnock said.

  14. Alex Clark says:

    This will not quietly go away and neither should it. The people who were given the power to run the United Kingdom weren’t up to the job. In fact they were a disgrace to the job and should never have been anywhere near power.

    https://twitter.com/StephenFlynnSNP/status/1792617686133850487

    Stephen Flynn gets it right, this was one gigantic cover up that has lasted decades. We can do better but only with Independence, that’s a simple fact.

  15. millsjames1949 says:

    Scotland needs the ”broad shoulders of the Union ” to protect us from the catastrophes that this cruel world may throw at us ;

    e.g Infected Blood scandal ; Thatcherism ; Windrush scandal ; Blairism ; Iraq War ; Grenfell Tower disaster ; Austerity ; Horizon Post Office scandal ; Nigel Farage ; Brexit ; HS2 ; Water Companies pollution scandal ; Boris Johnson ; Covid V.I.P procurement ; Covid Test and Trace ; Liz Truss , Piers Morgan ; Jeremy Clarkson …

  16. yesindyref2 says:

    From CNN: “The immediate problem for Israeli officials under any ICC arrest warrant would be that the court’s 124 member states would be under a legal obligation to arrest such officials if they traveled to any of those 124 countries,

    The likes of Germany, Italy, France, Ireland, Canada, Australia are members – so also is the UK. But the USA is not (nor Russia, China).

    The non-existent special relationship may find itself under strain.

  17. yesindyref2 says:

    There’s quite the opportunity in the latest Yougov poll for some hardy folk to broadcast the electoral calculus userpoll of the values, which puts Labour at 41 and the SNP on 8 seats. Rather than the other one with Labour on 38 and SNP on 11.

    Thing is this; there’s a lot of Indy supporters saying they’re not prepared to hold the nose and vote SNP again – but do they really want to see Starmer prancing around like Edward Shankspony with his 41 MPs as though he owns the place? Remembering that during the Smith Commission Labour’s grudging offer was far less than even the Conservatives would go for?

    The other figure being touted is 11 SNP MPs, but seeing the SNP in single figures might be enough of a shock to bring people back to the fold. I’ve already seen some having their doubts.

    • Handandshrimp says:

      If the independence forsake the SNP for the false gold if Starmer’s authoritarian centre right hegemony then I fear for not only independence but devolution. Starmer will brook no dissent in his party and no existential threats to England (I don’t think he thinks in terms of the UK.)

      We are at a pivotal moment in history.

      • DrJim says:

        It’s a general election year so we’ll be getting polls every 20 minutes “informing” us of how we’re all going to vote

        If there were no election in the offing there’d be just the usual SNP bad stories and deafening silence on what’s happening in Westminster, but the media powers that be are backing the change to Labour so they’re making sure we all know about how wonderful they say it’s all going to be with the SNP gone

        I still wouldn’t count any chickens on any of that happening, even though the Tories are in all sorts of trouble they always find a way of killing off Labour when they need to, and as for Scotland going back in time to vote Labour? a hae ma doots

    • scottish_skier says:

      The electorate could not be more disengaged right now. Labour are only up because certain to vote levels have hit a new low. This election is the biggest turnoff ever to the English never mind the Scots. We must remember we are not the average Scot. We are engaged all the time, they only do so around elections or when they see major movement going on. It’s ironic that the more papers tell voters that the SNP are done, the more polls will seem to show that, even as Yes support climbs and quite likely SNP with it. We’ve seen this many times before.

      There’s really no point whatsoever in putting current VI silliness into seat calculators. Sh*t in, sh*t out. CTV levels render VI meaningless. Far to many regular voters not responding to pollsters. Busy with other stuff and just cannot get excited about England’s election.

      As a share of the total electorate, unionists are no further forward on 2019, even down. That much is sure in polls, even this Yougov.

      We also know from Yougov that Swinney is soaring while unionist leaders tank. Also that Scots want iref2 within 5 years.

      That’s not a good poll for unionists. If all measures say you are very unpopular and this is getting worse bar VI for you, it means the latter is a sampling mirage. Ian Gray was getting 30% at best rating him, yet 45% VI. It was nonsense.

      I don’t know what will happen, but there is no unionist revival in Scotland. Quite the opposite.

      But seats in Westminster are useless ultimately. We need votes for independence. If the SNP aim for independence, not seats, they’ll get both I’d wager. If they don’t, then independence support will keep on ticking up, but they may lose a lot of seats in England’s parliament as Scots don’t want these.

      I know people think that polls change public opinion, but that’s nonsense. Folk don’t vote for a party because they think people they don’t know are going to do that. Hence Labour leads vanished like snaw aff a dyke 2011 and 2014 no matter how much the press insisted the SNP were a busted flush with polls to prove it.

      Watch Leader ratings while CTV levels remain low. That will tell you the direction of travel as a very good rule of thumb. Yousaf was actually making slow but steady progress here. But voters were not impressed with the end of the BHA. Swinney is off to an excellent start. His ratings are frankly looking amazing for polls that are so Labour / unionist heavy.

      Normal disengagement is 66% CTV. We are down to 63%. You can see engagement kicking in with the UKSC case. SNP shot up and Yes with it. These people have not moved to Labour / the union. Quite the opposite. They are so sick to death of it they’re totally disengaged and have good silent, making samples diluted by regular non-voters, hence low CTV.

      Meanwhile Scottish unionist voters who are more engaged as the GE is their union election, move to Yes. These are saying they are notably more likely to vote Yes if Starmer makes No 10 (Savanta). Another hilarous polling artefact contradiction! 🙂

    • yesindyref2 says:

      A problem for the SNP is this and similar, and it’s continual repetition:

      … if the SNP were a genuinely independence party.

      BUT that’s fairly easy to fight against – a de facto GE referendum being one but I daresay there are others. That could rally the somnolent Indy supporters who might stay away or abstain – or even vote labour.

      For me though it’s very quickly getting the SNP back to being centre-left; Swinney continuing what he’s doing. With the focus on the economy while keeping an eye on others things like even climate change. Which the Green Party National falsely headlines as “top priority” rather than “A” “top priority”.

      Then when she’s ready, Forbes showing what she’s made of, and my hope will be as well as the economy she goes back to the idea of post-Indy finances to complement GERS which is due out in August I think. Maybe with her model to match GERS in September or October.

      Then some real answers for Indy about mortgages, and the usual currency plan – my favourite being a parallel sterlingisation for 3 to 5 years while our own currency takes over at a controlled pace. That’s similar to what has happened with other countries joining the euro for instance, but spread over 3 to 5 years rather than days or weeks!

      But even for me, it’s competent governance first.

      • scottish_skier says:

        It may be that support for the SNP is over 50%. We can’t know. Support for Yes is over 50%, and that’s with polls favouring unionism. No SNP have moved to unionists either.

        The SNP had 45% support in early 2011 when polls found them on 32%. We had the comical situation 2011-early 2014 when polls found yes to be falling, and right down to towards 30%, when the reality was it just climbed steadily from 40% to 45% in 3 years. The drop was all a mirage. There was no drop.

        Which is why Yes politicians should completely resist becoming polling weathervanes. Polls are a lot of crap most of the time as samples are not representative mid term. So basing policy on them spells trouble. Polls can insist the public want a policy, when in fact the public strongly oppose it etc.

        It is full election outcomes that matter, along with turnout. If the coming UK election has a big turnout with serious movement from SNP to unionist, then the SNP need a big change in direction. However, there is not the slightest indication that’s going to happen. At worst, Scots may just not turn out en masse, disgusted as they are with Westminster. So we end up with them rejecting the UK regime in the same way Iranians will soon do again in their new presidential election. That would serve to tell the SNP that they’re not getting seats in Westminster anymore, but it would not impact the march to indy one bit, no matter how much the press tried to spin it. Spin has zero effect. No amount of the press insisting indy is dead will change real support for indy.

        So the SNP should keep with the same strategy for indy no matter what polls say. If not, they become seen as indecisive like Starmer’s Labour. If their strategy fails at the ballot box, then it’s time to revise the approach. Putting indy on the ballot is a member strategy and will do them no harm. Probably a great deal of good.

        But people need to stop believing polls when they churn out nonsensical guff. Why folks never seem to learn from this is beyond me. We can’t have Labour deeply unpopular, Yes hitting new highs and Labour projected to make big gains in Scotland. That is just nonsense pigs will fly polling. So folks need to ask what numbers are wrong? Is it everything is wrong (leadership, Yes numbers, party favourability, the news, Labour losing members like there’s no tomorrow, divisions at the border over policy, Labour going all brexiter…) except VI numbers? Or is it everything is pointing in the right direction, and it’s VI that is wrong, as usual outside of campaigns?

        I’m betting it’s more likely the latter. However, the SNP do need to offer change. Real change. Hope. And that’s independence, not loadsae useless seats in Westminster for another term while the economy continues to go to hell / the cost of living crisis spirals out of control.

  18. Capella says:

    Here is Prof Robertson’s collection of articles on the infected blood scandal. Corrects the media misinformation with awkward facts.

    https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/?s=blood

  19. Capella says:

    Since the wealthiest have seen an enormous increase in their wealth throughout the “austerity” years, this sounds fair.

    Scotland’s 10 richest families could fund 10,000 public sector workers

    The Scottish Trades Union Congress (STUC), the largest trade union body in Scotland, has called for a wealth tax to help fund investment in public services after the Sunday Times Rich List revealed Scotland’s 10 richest families are worth a combined £23 billion.

    Analysis from the STUC shows that a wealth tax of two percent a year on the 10 richest families in Scotland would raise £459 million – which would be enough to fund 10,000 public sector workers.

    STUC general secretary Roz Foyer (below) says the families “wouldn’t lose a wink of sleep” over the proposed two per cent tax and that the money would be vital to the struggling public sector.

    https://archive.ph/3irrN

    • Alex Clark says:

      Roz Foyer says:

      “The powers to implement this lies with the Scottish Government. “If the new First Minister is serious about eradicating poverty, he has the powers at his disposal to tax wealth.

      “We stand with him on that aim and we would implore him that it’s time he used the powers of our parliament to tax wealth more fairly.”

      What powers over tax do the Scottish Government have that would allow them to create an entirely new tax or is she saying they can use the existing tax powers?

      Here is the complete list of existing tax powers:

      • Income Tax – some aspects of which are the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament, others the UK Parliament, and which is administered by HMRC
      • Land and Buildings Transaction Tax – set by the Scottish Parliament and administered by Revenue Scotland
      • Landfill Tax – set by the Scottish Parliament and administered by Revenue Scotland
      • Council Tax – set, administered, and spent by local authorities
      • Non-Domestic Rates – set by the Scottish Parliament, administered and collected by local authorities who retain all of the revenue raised locally. 

      In addition, the Scotland Act 2016 included powers in relation to the following taxes: 

      The Scottish Parliament also has the power to create new local taxes (i.e. local taxes to fund local authority expenditure). Looking at that lot I fail to see how the Scottish Government can somehow target a wealth tax on rich individuals that happen to reside in Scotland.

      Even if they could what is there to stop these rich individuals from declaring their main home and place of residence as in England or anywhere else for that matter?

      • Capella says:

        The Scottish Government can and does set rates of income tax. It already taxes higher earners a higher rate. Thee is nothing to prevent them creating a top rate.

        The Scottish Government has full powers over local government There is nothing to stop them replacing the community charge with a land tax.

        • Alex Clark says:

          Income tax is specifically a tax paid on earnings from work. It does not tax earnings from interest paid on savings nor dividends paid on investments. It does not tax profit from business or growth in the value of assets held. The powers over tax on interest and dividends is still held by Westminster.

          The Scottish government be able to collect only that money deemed to be “income” from earnings paid for a job which for the richest 2% of people is trivial compared to income from other sources.

          I agree that Land tax would go someway towards collecting more money from the richest people who own large amounts of land or vast estates in Scotland. That though is something entirely different from this proposed “wealth tax” on the richest 2% who might pay nothing at all if they didn’t own any land in Scotland.

          I would like to see the STUC analysis which comes up with the £459 million figure which is very precise so clearly I must be missing something.

          • Alex Clark says:

            The STUC site seems to be down, neither link works and I’ve tried some others as well.

            I have read another article this time in the Herald from last year with the headline:

            Humza Yousaf: wealth tax possible due to pressure on public finances

            The following paragraph explains how it would be done.

            Another proposal was a 1% annual tax on wealth, including homes and other property, pension wealth, possessions including household contents, jewellery and art.

            Applying the levy on wealth above £1m would affect 12% of households and realise around £1.4bn, with the average household affected paying around £8,000 a year.

            The report said that if designed as a local rather than  a national tax, it could be created under existing powers, and if work started in 2023 it could be in place by 2026/27.

            So, it would have to be a local tax and currently local taxes go straight to councils as part of their budget and currently at least it could not be used directly as part of the Scottish budget.

            The main problem though that I see with this type of tax is that you could only tax wealth held in Scotland and I don’t see how you could go after wealth if the person being taxed claimed domicile elsewhere and didn’t keep his wealth either in property or land in Scotland.

  20. Capella says:

    Of course, taxing income wouldn’t touch the vast wealth held in land. You would need a land tax for that.

    Rich List: Wealthiest people in Scotland revealed

    Wealth is assessed by factors including land, property and other assets, with this year’s publication revealing the largest fall in billionaires in the guide’s history.

    Despite this, the individuals and families included in the 2024 edition still hold a combined wealth of £795.361 billion – a figure which is almost five times higher than the annual GDP of Scotland.

    https://archive.ph/7ZkJA

  21. scottish_skier says:

    As I’ve been saying would happen.

    https://archive.ph/L6LUF

    Census: More Scots than ever identifying as ‘Scottish, not British’

    TWO-THIRDS of people in Scotland identify only as Scottish, not British, according to new findings from the census.

    The data, which was published on Tuesday and collected by a nationwide census in 2022, also found that the majority of the Scots population say they have no religion – for the first time ever.

    The census was the first one run in Scotland since 2011, and the results have painted an interesting picture of national identity.

    It found that, of the 5,436,600 people living in Scotland, some 65.5% of them identify only as Scottish. This has increased by 3.1 points since 2011, when 62.4% of people said they were Scottish, not British.

    The number of people identifying only as British has also increased, and at a greater rate. In 2011, 8.4% of people in Scotland said they were British, not Scottish. In 2022, that was 13.9% – an increase of 5.5 points.

    The percentage of people who identify as both Scottish and British has decreased by more than 10 points, from 18.3% in 2011 to just 8.2% in 2022.

    The percentage of people who identify as both Scottish and British has decreased by more than 10 points, from 18.3% in 2011 to just 8.2% in 2022.

    A slightly higher percentage of females (66.3%) said their only national identity was Scottish compared to males (64.6%).

    The census data also reports the ethnic groups with which people identify, and found that 77.7% of people said “Scottish”.

    This is not people changing identity, it is Scotland changing generationally as young Scots replace older brits.

    And Britishness is not increasing, this is simply people who regionally identified as Scottish (and British) before, saying British only due the constitution situation. Ian Murray types. Scotland naturally becoming more Scottish / less British, but this threat has more British people grasping onto that more tightly.

    66% Yes on the day is a totally achievable target. 78% is the new 74% of 1997.

  22. millsjames1949 says:

    A Tax on Scottish Labour Peers sitting in the HoL , using Scottish names in their Titles, would bring in a hefty number of Smackaroonies !

    There appears to be a never ending supply of these strange Socialists , so future taxable income is guaranteed !

    We could call it the FFSFoulkes Tax !

  23. scottish_skier says:

    Another reminder of why only idiots would use current polling to predict the UKGE outcome when voters themselves specifically tell them not to.

    Those responding say they are still very uncertain how they they’ll vote. The numbers are the same in Scotland.

    This will be a combination of actual uncertainty, and the fact disengagement causes respondent pools to have more non-regular voters diluting them. This causes uncertainty to rise and error to widen.

    You need that 46% to fall back to around 20% before I’d put money on the outcome. You can see you normally need to wait to the last few weeks ahead of an election for this.

    Voters are literally saying that they are not certain at all about putting Starmer in No 10, yet some people’s response is to believe they are; the exact opposite of what they’ve been told by voters.

  24. Handandshrimp says:

    I do worry that Labour could march in with a 200 seat majority taking 43% of a 50% turnout. The spin doctors will call it a massive mandate despite their support only being one in five of the electorate.

    No one cares much about the didn’t votes. Starmer like the Vogan captain will say “no sympathy, bloody apathetic voters” and then read us some excruciating poetry in praise of his victory.

    SNP voters need to turnout or hold their peace. There is no point moaning about it after the event. If Starmer is as bad for Scotland as I think he will be there will only be one question…who did you vote for?

    • scottish_skier says:

      A massive Starmer majority that Scots didn’t vote would see indy by 2026.

      No amount of spin solves this. Establishment can’t be like ‘Starmer has a massive majority so huge mandate meaning you can’t vote SNP/Yes in 2026 and must now give up on indy!’. Voters will just ignore such nonsense and do what they want. As I’ve said before, the entire media telling us that poll after poll showed Labour on for a big win in 2011 didn’t have Scots go out and vote Labour. Quite the opposite. In fact maybe we can thank the polls / press for their Labour predictions as it maybe got Scots out to vote SNP. 🙂

      Same again in 2011- early 2014. The message was relentless; that Scots were drifting away from Yes and the SNP. Polls did show that at face value, and the more the message was pushed, the more Scots turned away from it and got on with things. Then when the time came, they popped their heads back up and we went from low 30’s to 45% Yes followed by a Labour Westminster landslide to a total wipe-out in a matter of just months.

      It’s why I’m not so bothered about the UK election. If it’s not a defacto iref, then what is most important is Starmer wins in England, but loses in Scotland. Losing in Scotland means having like just 20% turn out for him, even if that does bring in some seats because Scots don’t want them.

      We need a Labour government Scots didn’t vote for. Polling shows that will increase support for indy, and that’s in polls which favour Labour right now due, it seems, to sampling issues again!

      However, I do encourage people to go out and vote. And I don’t know if Yes Scots will stay at home. That’s not what they are saying. A large section are not saying anything at all. It’s this that has caught pollsters out big style before.

      And it’s not the same as 2017 at all. Ahead of this, the SNP were riding high. A victory looked dead cert. But that’s because unionists were disengaged. As they made their moves and SNP voters couldn’t see a way to affect change, so the union got it’s dead cat bounce in the final few weeks. Polling now is far more like 2009-11 and 2011-14 and the total opposite of 2017. It may be that the ‘dead cert’ SNP win message in 2017 compounded the problem for them, discouraging their turnout.

  25. DrJim says:

    When you take a look at the figures for identity in Scotland it shows that 65% of Scots have no interest in the minority BBC as a broadcaster, so it came as no surprise when the BBC announced that their flagship channel 9 was to cease broadcasting due to the total lack of interest in it, except, they still are, why?

    In other figures Scots have lost interest in religion, and again that should come as no surprise given that Scotland has suffered hugely from sectarianism and bigotry, and our young people have had more than enough of that so reject the entire concept of the trouble it causes, except the minority BBC that we reject interviewed a man who said he was a Rangers supporter, so in his words “I guess that makes me British then”

    I’ve said many times there is indeed a church of Rangers, and being a member of that church determines religion and nationality, and yet we know that around 40% of Rangers supporters now favour independence for Scotland, again odd because at no time did the interviewee or the BBC think to mention that Rangers were a football club

    Perhaps many Rangers supporters don’t care about the actual football part of their membership, and that’s a shame, because that’s the only part I actually like, and why I don’t and haven’t attended matches since I was a boy, and again oddly the minority BBC refuse to show them on their broadcasting programmes, yet appear to support the anti social and minority church part that connects them to being loyal to the British crown?

    Is the BBC in Scotland admitting that they support minority rule and a minority religion that the majority of Scotland rejects? they must be

  26. Capella says:

    Another excellent history of the blood infection scandal, mostly the result of Labour negligence and secrecy in the 1970s but with Tory collusion as well, from Prof Robertson.

    Shockingly, we now know that one year before the Labour Government signed the deal [in 1976], the World Health Organisation had warned of the risk of transmitting diseases when blood products were obtained from paid rather than from voluntary donors and urged (in block capital lettering), member states such as the UK, to enact effective legislation to protect the recipients of blood products. 

    In December 2015 [1975?], ITV’s World in Action TV show did a special on the risks. According to the Guardian, in April 2024, despite the WHO warning and the TV broadcast, the deal was done by the Labour cabinet in August 1976, in part, to cut costs.

    (I think there is mistake in the date of the World in Action documentary. It must have been in 1975 and not 2015.)

    https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2024/05/21/the-largely-untold-story-of-how-labour-failed-to-protect-scots-haemophiliacs-from-infected-blood/

  27. orkneystirling says:

    Land is exempt from tax to keep farms together. Scotland makes £Billions from food and drink products. A land tax would divert that and cause problems.

    Rateable value could increase. There is already corporation tax on profits. Income tax and capital gains tax.

    Tax evasion costs £Billions a year. Taxes not enforced by Westminster Gov.

    • UndeadShaun says:

      and what of the uber rich minority who own the majority of Scotlands land.

      should they not pay a land tax on their massive estates?

      • Capella says:

        Anders Holch Povlsen, Danish billionaire, is the largest private land owner in the UK and hence in Scotland. He pays taxes on his Scottish estates – to Denmark.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Holch_Povlsen

      • Capella says:

        Scotland’s second biggest land owner [in 2014 when this article was written], a Danish man called Anders Holch Povlsen, pays no tax on his estate to the UK Exchequer. Given that there is no land tax in Britain, unlike most of Europe, this is not at all unusual.

        The strange part is that Danish local authorities do have the power to tax land owned by Danish citizens – and not just in Denmark, but anywhere. This means that Povlsen, along with a few other Danes with land in Scotland, doesn’t pay the UK Government, Scottish Government or local authorities a penny on his land – while making a fairly substantial contribution to Danish public finances.

        The case is just one example that activists point to in demanding land reform. With over half of its private land owned by just 432 people, and ten per cent owned by 16 individuals or groups, Scotland has one of the most unequal patterns of land ownership in Europe.

        https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,turf-war_14372.htm#:~:text=This%20means%20that%20Povlsen%2C%20along,contribution%20to%20Danish%20public%20finances.

  28. orkneystirling says:

    Council tax is a fraction of Council spending. The majority comes from Gov. Edinburgh, Glasgow £1Billion+.

  29. scottish_skier says:

    Your occasional reminder, updated with the latest data, that if you are directly comparing polls now with polls before ‘the drop’ – i.e. around the time of Sturgeon’s resignation – then you are comparing haggis with neeps statistically.

    It’s quite possible that the SNP have not dropped at all in VI in reality. We can’t know this though. All we can know is that pollsters are not polling the same groups of people.

    As you can see, the roles have reversed. Before the drop, SNP 2019 respondents were undersampled 18% of the time. Now it’s 35%. Labour were notably harder to reach at 30% undersampled pre-drop, but that’s halved to 14% (if numbers don’t seem to add up perfectly it’s just rounding error).

    Since 45% voted SNP in 2019 and just 19% Labour, the former should be far easier to find. And they used to be. Then they went quiet. Now when e.g. Yougov send out their mass targeted emails from London, England, to the panel members who’ve told them they are in Scotland, they find Labour voters much more eager to respond, but 35% of the time can’t get enough SNP. That’s huge for the biggest party in Scotland in the last 2 elections, and for targeted panel polling, i.e. Yougov know what their panel members voted in 2019, and are directly targeting these to obtain quotas. They are being ignored, and by SNP 2019 voters.

    And the English pollsters will know this. They’ll know their relative response rates have changed. Upweighting SNP 2019 to plug the gap cannot correct the problem, as that implicitly assumes the views of those SNP 2019 who are responding are the same as those who are not, which the evidence suggests is highly unlikely to be the case. Not if you have a sudden differential response rate change like this in terms of political affiliation. No, the assumption would be is that if Labour are now being oversampled, then your SNP 2019 are likely more Labour / No leaning SNP, not representing the bulk of their fellow brethren. A small group are now being exaggerated.

    And that is how you end up with cross tabs telling you there seems to be modest movement from SNP to Labour, yet as a share of the total electorate, this just has not happened at all, NET.

    Only once those response rate numbers reverse, and the biggest party in 2019 becomes the easiest to reach once more, will we know what public opinion really is.

    For now, we should just be pleased that Swinney is soaring in samples that are unquestionably oversampling Labour 2019 voters. That and ‘the drop’ may simply be yet another mid-term mirage, just like we’ve seen before in Scottish politics when ‘independence was dead / the SNP was a busted flush’.

    Certainly, there is no evidence at all Yes / SNP have lost any voters to the union. Polls say that has not happened.

    • scottish_skier says:

      To clarify, this is based on unweighted vs weighted bases. When e.g. Labour 2019 in the unweighted base needs down-weighting due to too many in the respondent pool, that is ‘oversampled’. When there were too few and their views needed inventing (which is literally what pollsters do), it’s ‘undersampled’.

  30. Alex Clark says:

    Ireland, Norway and Spain have announced that they have recognised Palestine as an Independent State, in return the Israeli Government have ordered their ambassadors from Ireland and Norway to return to Israel.

    Speaking on Wednesday, Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris said: “Today Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that we recognise the state of Palestine, each of us will undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to that decision.

    “I am confident that further countries will join us in taking this important step in the coming weeks.”

    https://archive.ph/rUMp6

    • DrJim says:

      I wonder if these countries recognise that Scotland is an imprisoned state held within a fake undemocratic system by the will of an English hostile government

    • Capella says:

      A sign of sanity at last. There is no hope of the US or UK supporting this so a veto at the UNSC is inevitable. But there is a mechanism for the whole of the UNGA to vote on an issue and that is where they will likely be heading.

      Well done Ireland, Norway and Spain. Show what a sovereign country can do.

    • Tatu3 says:

      The same Spain that won’t allow Catalunya to have a vote on independence from Spain

  31. bringiton says:

    During the 2024 referendum,I was of the opinion that it was up to those of us who supported independence to make the case.

    Now,after all the lies have been exposed,those who support the so called union have to justify Scotland not having it’s own government.We are open to persuasion,so let’s hear it.

    • scottish_skier says:

      It is British nationalists that have made the strongest case for independence.

      They are almost wholly responsible for the long term decline of Britishness in Scotland.

      Doing things like saying in their courts that Scots need England’s permission for independence is a continuation of their work to break the union.

      They blame the SNP, but the SNP are a symptom, not the cause. People move to independence then to the SNP, not the other way around.

  32. scottish_skier says:

    Another month and Labour still no further forward in terms of winning over real walking around voters compared to their ‘worst defeat since 1935’ in 2019.

    Their ‘popularity’ is a total mirage, being entirely projected turnout related. IPSOS had ~25% of total respondents certain to vote Labour on the eve of the 2019 GE. That has basically not changed since, apart from a brief post-mini-budget bounce that waned over the course of 2023.

    As things stand, Starmer has won over nobody. He even managed to lose those he was gifted through the mini-budget.

    The guy is a total failure, hence his heavily negative ratings.

  33. millsjames1949 says:

    As a lawyer ( and a Human Rights one ), what is Starmer’s view of the ICC seeking warrants for Israel’s and Hamas’ leaders ?

    Does he still support the view , despite months of evidence to the contrary , that Israel is NOT committing War Crimes ? Is another U-turn in the offing /

    • Capella says:

      A trip to the Hague may be in the offing, along with David Cameron.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      As Israeli Ambassadors are recalled from Norway and Ireland ( and threatened to Spain ) over those countries signalling they will recognise Palestine as a state, I suspect shrinking sphincters are back in fashion in London.

      Just to put that into perspective – As of May 2024, 142 of the 193 member states of the United Nations recognise the Palestinian State – That’s 74% recognising what started in 1948 has gone on for far too long, whilst the 26% keep quiet as accusations of being anti-semitic, and desiring to “repeat the holocaust” fly with gay abandon from the 5%…. Including Starmer…

  34. scottish_skier says:

    Rumours about that Sunak is thinking about a UKGE during the Euros to boost the patriotic vote, what with Scotland in the tournament.

    Last time we qualified was the year before we voted 74% yes to semi-independence in 1997.

  35. Alex Clark says:

    This is from the Political editor of the Times.

  36. Handandshrimp says:

    is inflation coming down to 2% the holy grail Sunak was looking for or a straw beckoning to a drowning man?

  37. scottish_skier says:

    So, to predict the future, cheap and nasty mid term English panel polls which are almost invariably wrong, or the census?

    That peak British national identity has shifted 11 years upwards since the last census in 2011, hence we are now on the brink.

    It’s interesting, as you can see how recent British is. It didn’t really exist as an identity before the post WW2 social democratic consensus that created it, at least in Scotland. It neatly shows why Yes isn’t linked to age, but is generational. The silent generation and those before them were less British than the boomers. They fought as Scots in the world wars. To defend Scotland, their country, in the main. A Scotland that was part of an empire in a world of empires, with little choice in the matter.

    Look at the future. Holy sh*t. Way up over 75% Scottish (+/- other but not British, such as my Scottish-French European daughter). British means nothing to the vast majority of young Scots, not unless they have some clear and direct family connection to it through parentage etc. These youngsters are so very different to those who came out of the baby boom, where far more felt British even if they’d never been out of their own town never mind Scotland.

    That younger working age bump of ‘other only’ would be mainly our ‘new Scots’, who predominately come from Europe. They of course now back Yes. They are also responsible for the increasing number of Scottish + other (European, but not British) kids wandering around. 🙂

    This is why No is stronger in the elderly. It’s not conservatism with age. It’s generational identity.

    Thatcherism battered the British out of Scotland steadily, as you can see from the slope from peak to the under 40’s where it settles out to a low that it’s never recovered from. The children of devolution no longer have any sense of it. The union flag is a foreign flag. The flag of a country that has taken away their European identity, their future, and will not let them vote. They really don’t like the English government for it, believe me. Totally understandable.

  38. Alex Clark says:

    The summer is election is ON according to the Guardian, cabinet meeting taking place now.

  39. Handandshrimp says:

    July the 4th seems to be the date being touted. It will be no doubt be all hands to the pumps for the SNP.

    I thought that John might have a few months to get his feet under the table but there is a definite advantage in having an election two years before Holyrood 26. Unfortunately a few Westminster seats might be lost in the short term but two years of Starmer should put a different gloss on things for the more important prize of Holyrood.

  40. Alex Clark says:

    It will be interesting to see what happens with the polls in the next few weeks LOL

    • scottish_skier says:

      Snap elections can create the greatest poll shifts because the electorate are more likely to be disengaged from the political process at the time of announcement.

      There were huge changes ahead of 2017 and 2019 as voters engaged. That said, even 2015 had fair shifts. Labour were way oversampled here, hence the hung parliament became a notable Tory majority.

      Lets all hope Starmer makes No. 10. It’s what we need to show Scots they can never have a UK government they like / want.

      I’m not bothered if that means we lose some titanic deckchairs to him here in Scotland because Scots don’t want these but independence.

      We need to get this largely pointless election out of the way so we can move to two years of a hated English Labour government Scots didn’t vote for ahead of the election that matters. Our own. That is lining up to be our date with destiny.

  41. Handandshrimp says:

    What is the betting that Branch Form will suddenly burst into life in a panic because of the surprise election 🤔

  42. scottish_skier says:

    4th July is a nice one for the SNP to use in slogans.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Couldn’t have written the script better, how incompetent are that lot Hahahahaha

      • scottish_skier says:

        Campaign video?

        ‘And it still goes on like the 4th of july
        And my heart still beats like you’re by my side
        And I dream of the day when you’ll be mine’

  43. Handandshrimp says:

    Independence day it is 😀

  44. Alex Clark says:

    What a embarrassment, a fitting end to the Tories reign.

    Standing there getting soaked in the pouring rain while his speech was overshadowed by protestors blasting out “Things can only get better” outside the gates of No 10.

    He looked utterly ridiculous and will never live this down. Fucking Beamer! LOL

  45. sionees says:

    Let’s make Scotland and Wales Tory free zones (like before!)

  46. Alex Clark says:

    The SNP could not have written a better script for this coming election. Sunak humiliates himself on the steps of No 10 looking like a complete fool and getting drowned into the bargain.

    Best of all as Skier mentions is choosing “Independence Day” for the day of the vote. What an idiot, he has done in Labours chance of winning the most seats in Scotland in my opinion.

    This whole election is now all about “Independence Day” which is guaranteed to get the supporters of Independence into the voting booths. This has to give the leadership of the SNP a boost and the way is obviously clear as to what they must make this election all about.

    You really couldn’t make this up and we better make the most of it. Get in there!

    • Handandshrimp says:

      What happened to the concept of an umbrella ☔

      Weird!

    • scottish_skier says:

      The Tories know they’re in the s**t. They need Scots to vote SNP, not Labour. That might just save their bacon or at least stop Starmer getting an outright majority.

      They don’t care how many seats the SNP get if it’s not to be some sort of defacto indyref.

      If they lose the election and Scotland goes independent in 2026, it’s all Labour’s fault. If they win the election, and we vote Yes in 2026, they’ll worry about that when it happens. Maybe send in the tanks or something. It’s two years away, and that’s so far into the future for the party of short term selfish gain.

      Scotland in the Euros. Voting day on 4th July. If you want to get Scots out voting pro-indy, this is the timetable.

  47. DrJim says:

    So if Benjamin Netanyahu turns up in Scotland he will be arrested as per the ICC ruling, but what’s interesting is the Scottish branch of the British Labour party have backed the SNP decision to do that

    Now over to Sir Kier Starmer to ask what he thinks about this, or when will he pay out the infected blood victims, or when will he pay the Horizon victims, or for all the other stuff that Sunak promised he would pay for if still in office

    General elections are so much fun for the incumbent government, they can promise anything they like and all the pressure lands on the opposition to prove they’ll not only do the same but even more

    Let the Hyena media savagery begin

    I kinda think Starmer’s goose will now begin to be slow cooked

    • James says:

      So if Benjamin Netanyahu turns up in Scotland he will be arrested as per the ICC ruling

      There has been no ICC ruling

      • Handandshrimp says:

        There won’t be a ruling in any recognised sense. The ICC chief prosecutor has requested arrest warrants and is waiting to see if they will be issued. If they are then the Hamas leader in Qatar and Netanyahu in Israel will not be travelling abroad much.

      • DrJim says:

        They’ve ruled that they agree with each other the man should be arrested, or what was the point of the statement?

    • scottish_skier says:

      The cross border labour rift will grow ever wider as Holyrood 2026 approaches. We need right-wing English Starmer in No. 10 overturning polices dear to left of centre Scottish Labour MSPs, including devolved policies.

  48. scottish_skier says:

    Anyhoo, I shall be keeping a close eye on CTV levels. A announcement does not mean polls will suddenly show real outcomes, but things should start to move as it filters through. If they don’t rise, then we are looking at a mass boycott and a serious constitutional crisis. If they rise in Scotland, it should be to the SNP, and a constitutional crisis either way ahead of 2026.

    Tory voters in England will need to decide now if they want to let a hated English Labour government walk into No 10 basically unopposed. Maybe best to hold their nose and vote Tory again no matter how pissed off they are with them etc. Scots might think the same, even if they are thinking this election is pretty pointless, which it is as it’s not a defacto iref for them.

    For Labour, it is now toilet roll at the ready waiting to see if deeply unpopular Starmer does lose 10 points in the run up like pretty popular Blair did. That or they are being well oversampled again like it was with Miliband.

  49. DrJim says:

    Watch for how many times the media in Scotland use Alex Salmond to insist the SNP are in *deep serious* trouble, and the ex members interviews littering our screens, along with all the *right* pundits and pollsters telling us about how it’s all a worrying time for the SNP and the big losses they could be facing

    The media game has begun already

    If 65% of Scots identify as Scottish and not British why on earth would any of those people vote for political parties that identify as British?

    One more thing, For over 60 years Scotland’s votes have made no difference to the party elected as the government of the UK, this has always been decided since then by the voters of England

    Are Scottish voters really going to help England ice their own cake for them?

    Remember Brexit?

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