You can’t have a second referendum Scotland! Respect the result! You had a vote two years ago and you lost, get over it! End of. And so on and so on, ad nauseum. These are the usual responses of diehard Unionists to the prospect that the Scottish Government is considering holding a second independence referendum if Scotland is wrenched out of the EU against its will, and contrary to the assurances of the Unionist establishment during that referendum two years ago. But of course in Unionist Britain it’s only the losing side in a referendum that has to comply with any promises made during the campaign, the winners get a carte blanche and can do exactly as they please, up to and including ripping up all the vows that they made in order to win. It’s a peculiar perversion of democracy, but it’s Great British democracy and we’re ordered to respect it.
Unionist no-no-never sayers believe that they’ve got an ace up their sleeves. Theresa May won’t allow you to have another independence referendum, they claim, wheeching out the card like a trump, one which is equally abusive and orange tinged. Because that’s exactly what it would be if ever it was played, an abuse of democracy. The people of Scotland elected a pro-independence majority to Holyrood just a few months ago. That was a vote that the Unionists lost. They should accept the result and get over it.
Scotland didn’t just vote for a pro-independence majority, the voters of this country voted overwhelmingly for a government party with an explicit statement in its manifesto that should Scotland be faced with the prospect of being taken out of the EU against its will, that would be a justification for another independence referendum. Some people refuse to accept that this clause exists, even though it was clearly there and written in simple English. But intransigence doesn’t stop it from existing. It only demonstrates that the person doing the denying is no longer dealing with a full deck of cards.
The Scottish government is still saying that a second independence referendum isn’t an inevitability, they’re giving the UK government enough rope to hang the idea of Scotland staying in the UK. By the time that the indyref button is pressed, it will be clear to everyone that the British Government does not have the slightest intention of respecting Scotland’s position, allowing Scotland to have a different Brexit deal, or even of permitting Scotland to have any significant input into the Brexit negotiations. Well, I say everyone, with the obvious exceptions of Ruthie, Kezia, Wee Wullie, and everyone on Twitter with a WATP avatar who ends their tweets with End. Of.
Mind you, you’d imagine that Rangers fans ought to be the very last people to complain about independence coming back again. They should be quite comfortable with the notion of independence being back on the table after being dead and buried a couple of years ago, what with the same thing having happened to their team.
Once a bill for a referendum is presented to the Scottish Parliament, there is absolutely nothing that the anti-independence parties can do to prevent it. Ruthie said this week that there will be no second independence referendum if she has anything to do with it. So it’s a terrible shame for her that she doesn’t. That’s democracy, her party lost. Get over it. End of.
That leaves just one glimmer of hope that the Unionist parties have of blocking a second independence referendum, and that’s if Theresa May’s government blocks it. In theory, there’s nothing to stop them, but in theory there’s also nothing to stop them passing a bill saying that all red haired people have to report to a detention camp. Mind you, they’ve recently proposed drawing up lists of all foreigners, so that’s possibly a bad example. The point however is that what is theoretically possible isn’t the same as what is politically possible.
Let’s suppose that after every single attempt to preserve Scotland’s position within the Single Market and to keep at least a modicum of our EU rights has been rebuffed by an intransigent Westminster, which looks very like the dark tunnel we’re heading down. An independence referendum bill will be presented to the Scottish Parliament, and passed by it, as a last ditch attempt to save Scotland from the looming disaster of a chaotic Brexit. While this is going on, the UK government will be engaged in negotiations with a deeply unsympathetic and increasingly hostile EU.
So let’s assume that Theresa May is stupid and short sighted enough to block the second independence referendum. She’ll be faced with a constitutional crisis to go along with the Brexit crisis she’ll already be dealing with. She will enrage Scottish opinion because she will have overruled the Scottish Parliament which had just voted on a manifesto commitment of the governing party. She’ll anger the EU that she’s negotiating with. And most importantly of all, she will not have blocked a second independence referendum for good. All she’ll have done is delayed it, and will have made it even less likely that she’ll win it when it is eventually held. Because all that will happen is that the subsequent Scottish parliamentary elections will become a de-facto independence referendum.
Westminster will see Scotland elect a pro-independence majority with a clear mandate to seek independence and to negotiate directly with the EU on Scotland’s behalf, because the Unionist parties will have to fight that campaign on the basis of defending a Westminster which has just overruled a democratic vote which it lost. They lost, but they won’t have got over it. They won’t have respected the result.
The biggest problem that the Unionist parties have is that they still imagine that they speak from a position of power and are able to call the shots. But Brexit has changed everything. Westminster is weak, it has few cards to play, it is staggering towards its own destruction. And its biggest weakness of all is its arrogant refusal to face up to the reality of its own debility. A Westminster veto of a second Scottish independence referendum won’t prevent that referendum from being held. It just delays the inevitable, and it just makes it even more likely that Scotland will vote for independence.
Meanwhile the Unionist parties keep looking back to the previous vote. But independence supporters are looking to the future. The past belongs to the Union. The future belongs to independence.
Audio version of this blog post, courtesy of Sarah Mackie @lumi_1984 https://soundcloud.com/occamshaver/wee-ginger-dug-14th-oct-2016
If you’d like me and the dug to come and give a talk to your local group, email me at weegingerbook@yahoo.com
Donate to the Dug This blog relies on your support and donations to keep going – I need to make a living, and have bills to pay. Clicking the donate button will allow you to make a payment directly to my Paypal account. You do not need a Paypal account yourself to make a donation. You can donate as little, or as much, as you want. Many thanks.
If you’d like to make a donation but don’t wish to use Paypal or have problems using the Paypal button, please email me at weegingerbook@yahoo.com for details of alternative methods of donation.
I’m now taking advance orders for Volumes 3 and 4 of the Collected Yaps. For the special price of £21 for both volumes plus £4 P&P you can get signed copies of the new books if you order before publication, scheduled for mid-July. Covering the immediate aftermath of the independence referendum until the Yes campaign’s destruction of the Labour party in the 2015 General Election, it’s a snarling chronicle of Scottish history.
To reserve your copies, just send an email to weegingerbook@yahoo.com giving your name and your postal address and how many copies you wish to order. You can also order signed copies of all four volumes for the special price of £40 plus £4 P&P.
Signed copies of the Collected Yaps of the Wee Ginger Dug volumes 1 and 2 are available by emailing me at weegingerbook@yahoo.com. Price just £21.90 the pair plus P&P. Copies of Barking Up the Right Tree are available from my publisher Vagabond Voices at http://vagabondvoices.co.uk/?page_id=1993 price just £7.95 plus P&P. The E-book of Barking Up the Right Tree is available for Kindle for just £4. Click here to purchase.
Wee Ginger Dug 
I am not convinced that Independence will need a referendum. The EU may be happy to accept Scotland as a sovereign member following negotiations with us and following Westminster spitting out the dummy when they finally realise they won’t be getting everything their own way.
You could be right.How much appetite is their among Tory back benchers in London to fight and quite probably lose a second independence referendum? I think their focus might be on keeping as much soft power and saving as much face as possible.Independence is a process,not an event?
Oh how I love opening my emails to find yet another of your excellent blogs!
I savour and enjoy every word!
Another brilliant analysis of an ever more inevitable situation!
Great stuff Paul! Can’t wait till your visit to Dundee in November!
“Ad nauseam” (?), Paul, just like the Repetitive Behaviour Syndrome of their politics and knuckle-dragging actions vis a vis Scotland and Europe?
Slow mo seppuku for imperialist half-wits in all its gory glory short of sending in the troops to Brussels and Scotland to sort the natives out as they would have done in even the recent past.
With the FM’s declaration at conference today, their auld game is almost a bogey (a Bauge) and hell mend them.
Thank you, again, for this and the rest.
“short of sending in the troops to Brussels and Scotland to sort the natives out” –
as the UK govt did in Northern Ireland in the not too distant past, certainly within living memory. For Scotland’s sake I sincerely hope that option is never on the table!
Never assume that Westminster would not resort to that!!
The xenophobia at their last conference would have been unheard of even in Thatcher’s regime.
David, is that really where the expression “the game’s a bogey” comes from? My late father used it a lot, but I don’t think he was aware of Bauge’s (with an acute e) historicaö signifcance even thoug it was our twin town, selected I’m sure by the late Oliver Brown because of the Scottish victory there on behalf of the French in 1421.
As in Bauge (with an acute accent) 1421?
Your comment led me straight to Wikipedia for more information, & this lovely sentence: “On hearing of the Scottish victory, Pope Martin V passed comment by reiterating a common medieval saying, that “Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.””
Well, many Brexiteers take the view that 24/6/16 was the second referendum – the first being in 1973.
The line of argument seems to be that they want to be able to make their own decisions rather than be dictated too by a larger political entity, in this case the EU.
Now that line of argument is precisely the line being taken by those in Scotland seeking independence. If England and Wales wish to have independence on that basis than what is good enough for them is good enough for others, in this case Scotland. Attempting to pick and choose on such a basic democratic principle merely demonstrates that they don’t want to be dominated [in their terms] by others but are quite willing to man the barricades in order to dominate others.
Those who take such a position rightly deserve to be called out as hypocrites.
They, the Anglo-Welsh rem ant of the UK are already half-way there to “independence” from Scotland. They, well the Anglos did, initiated EVEL.
All that remains is for them to break the 1707 Ukunion. After all, they did not want Scottish MPs holding the balance at Westminster as part of the UK. The did not see us as Better together, except to dump Trident and suck away oil revenues, which have diminished.
Indyref1 for the Anglo-Welsh, Better away!
Clear logic and well said.
I understand Westminster can block a binding independence referendum (as constitutional matters are reserved). But what’s to stop the Scottish Parliament from legislating a consultative one?
The Brexit referendum was a consultative one, and no one is questioning its result. Couldn’t the Scottish public be given a a consultative referendum on independence by Holyrood alone?
What am I missing here?
Absolutely nothing. However it runs the risk that the Unionist parties will tell their supporters to boycott it, so unless there’s a massive turnout and an equally massive Yes vote it might not provide the clear mandate for independence that’s required. Turning the Scottish Parliament elections into an independence vote gets round that problem.
Upside it delays it til 2021, when we should have the demographic majority. Downside it delays it until 2 years after rUK leaves the EU.
A lot of Anglos want rid of Scotland. Their Government in telling Scotland porkies about us being subsidy junkies, cannot tell the truth to its own people. That we keep them afloat.
The Westminster elections are 2020. If we have a majority of MP’s the late Maggie thought we’d be free to leave. Lets make that the de facto referendum if they act the Knut with us.
Well said Paul that’s another keeper.
Something for folk to consider when viewing twatter or encountering proud buts on the interwebby. Next time you come across some bonehead who insists that the Scottish Government hasn’t honoured the result of the 2014 referendum? Simply ask them a few simple questions:
1. Do you believe that governments should stick by their pledges then? Yes/No
2. Do you believe that only the losing side should honour its pledges? Yes/No
3. What part of UK elections, Smith Commission farce, Scotland Bill debates and two fucking years of waiting for better together/HMGs pledges to appear seems like lack of respect, non acceptance or non participation to you then?
Another factlet that’ll focus some folks attention ably represented by the FM here:
“So allow me to reflect on who we are in Scotland today. We are more than five million men and women, adults, young people and children, each with our own life story and family history, and our own hopes and dreams.
“We are the grandchildren and the great grandchildren of the thousands who came from Ireland to work in our shipyards and in our factories.
“We are the 80,000 Polish people, the 8,000 Lithuanians, the 7,000 each from France, Spain, Germany, Italy and Latvia. We are among the many from countries beyound our shores that we are so privileged to have living here amongst us.
“We are the more than half a million people born in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who have chosen to live here in Scotland. We are the thousands of European students studying at our universities and our colleges. We are the doctors and nurses from all across our continent and beyond who care for us daily in our National Health Service.
“Whether we have lived here for generations or are new Scots, from Europe, India, Pakistan, Africa and countries across the globe we are all of this and more. We are so much stronger for the diversity that shapes us.
“We are one Scotland and we are simply home to all of those who have chosen to live here, that is who and what we are.” (ends)
Folk from all over the globe who may have a say in the outcome of a second indyref. People that May and her appalling government seem hell bent on marginalising and alienating (in every sense).
There has been a material change. There has been a grievous dereliction of HMG in their delivery of pledges and assurances made during the last indyref. HMG and Better Together ARE responsible.
There are consequences in the REAL WORLD for those circumstances. If those who STILL support the union have a problem with those circumstances… then you know where to look and it is NOT in the direction of the Scottish Government or the YES movement.
The YES movement and the SG did not ask to be in this position we find ourselves in today, but it IS where we are and it needs dealt with. Two legal referendum results which are constitutionally incompatible. 55-45 to remain in one union and 62-38 to remain in another.
In any democracy worth the name, this comprises a circle that is not likely to be squared without a third ballot for the Scottish electorate. THAT is the situation we have ALL been placed in thanks to a Tory Westminster pissing contest.
Well said sir.
Seconded!
Very well said indeed!
Chapeau macart.
I was wearing a hat until I read your contribution. Off now. Well said, sir.
Well said, Sam, and Nicola Sturgeon.
Try and catch Davidson on HIGNFY.
Her Cheeky Chappie stupid grin as she tries to wriggle out of saying anything positive or nice about Boris Johnson and her WM handlers is a joy to behold.
Her equivalent of Malcolm Tucker must have been kicking over the coffee tables in the Green Room.
She really is that empty headed.
I see Tom Gordon is doing an SNP Bubble’s Burst piece of nonsense in Herald England today.
What a way to make a living.
Do the Dead Tree Scrollers even care what they are clacking out nowadays?
The MSM are downsizing and rightsizing again; must be October and half way through the financial year.
I’m sure that they’ll weed out any remnants of staff who still think that Scotland is a nation, has incredible natural resources, and a multi cultural population who have the skills and energy to make their way in the world.
Shame on them for peddling the too poor, £15 billion deficit, the oil’s running out (down to our last £1.5 trillion.) and is selling at 47 cents to the barrel, Spain will veto, shit.
To our scribes I say. Get up off your subservient knees and write for your country, not some faceless US Neo Con corporation.
I’d love wee Mundell to stand on the steps of the Scottish Office, and announce that his Government, elected by the overwhelming majority of Britain, has vetoed Indyref 2.
Now’s the day, and now’s the hour.
It is inevitable, and the Tom Gordons of this world know it.
I see that there’s a vacancy for an advertising sales person on the Newton Whamphrey Gazette .
Don’t all rush at once.
If Maggie May was to block indyref2 what’s to stop the the Scottish government holding a referendum on UDI?
There would be troops massing on the border before you could say Ian Smith, Rhodesia, James.
There is a significant number of ‘Ulsterification’ rabble rousers in the Press who actively tour the potential for a N Ireland style civil war in a ‘divided Scotland’.
Ours is a bloodless revolution. Independence will be achieved without so much as a ‘paper cut’.
That’s what annoys them so much.
So much so that the Sub editing the On line HS thinks that ‘Tory’s’ is the plural of ‘Tory’.
They are wrong in the mind with pent up anger now.
The ballot box, not the bullet, every time.
‘tout’. Who edits Collatin’s submissions?
I have read many statements from the dug, but the point about the Westminster government in the EU debate:
“its biggest weakness of all is it’s refusal to face up to the reality of its own disability.”
That is simply insightful!
It has put itself off the top table at the Council of Minister; alienated the remaining 27 EU member states and has no idea how to begin. If it did it would have initiated Article 50 by this time. It has three supposedly leading the Brexit Ministers who have already impressed unimpressively!
You’d think britnats would want a referendum every year in order to prove the wonderfulness of the union between Scotland and England. Whit are they feart o?
They do, Dan. It’s called Last Night at the Proms.
That’s a good one about Red Haired People / Detention Camps, Gordon Strachan better watch what he’s Doing mind you. ha ha
On the question of sovereignty and the right of the Scottish people to hold a referendum on independence, this has been brought up time and time again. However, it is time that the Scottish people realized, once and for all, that, on the question of sovereignty, the supreme authority in Scotland is the Scottish people, a fact acknowledged by Lord Cooper as Lord President at the Court of Session in 1953: “The unlimited sovereignty of Parliament has no counterpart in Scottish Constitutional Law”. The English may be subservient to the English parliament, but the Scottish people are not subservient to any parliament.
Regarding “permission” from the English government to hold another Independence referendum, such “permission” is not, and never has been, necessary. The only permission required is that from the sovereign Scottish people, and that is obtained from the Scottish people by their electing a Scottish government that supports independence.
Moreover, any attempts by the English government to either block, or refusal to recognize the results of, an independence referendum would be a breach of international law, under which all nations have the total right to self-determination. Even the English, I assume, would not be so stupid as to be in breach of international law, and demonstrate to the world their contempt of democracy. Then again, the English, in their arrogance, and belief that they are some form of master race, may consider that they are above international law.
Brilliant.
The same principle means that Royal Prerogrative can’t apply to decisions that effect the whole of the UK without the agreement of Holyrood or our MPs. Theresa May and her cabinet cannot simply make decisions without parliamentary agreement.
A taste of what’s to come and why. Hit the go button on the recording and sit back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNMUPIsQjf4&feature=youtu.be
An abused but very apt phrase would be… tae see ourselves as ithers see us.
This link is very informative and insightful. Well worth a listen.
I have watched the link. Wow!
I have the gut feeling that this is not going to be the only business person/investor that will come out of the shadows now to speak up openly about this.
Not his first thoughts on the subject and I dare say not his last. In fact simply throw in a google request or two marked Brexit or Brexit, economy (the usual stuff). The screen lights up like a Christmas tree with such videos, recordings and news items.
Take a wild guess at the nature of most predictions outside of the UK media bubble. Y’know from the folks the UK are hoping to have queuing up at their counter? Seems there’s more than one or two within the UK meeja who aren’t quite as optimistic either for that matter.
Its not as if there aren’t enough warning flags going up out there, but the nature of people won’t be ‘belief’ until they are fully confronted with hardship.
Right now, the haters are on twatter and the interwebby spreading the usual pretty vile abuse on the FMs speech. These ‘defenders’ of a union which doesn’t give a shit whether they exist or not are about to get hit by the mother of economic shitstorms and they will look first to Westminster for answers and solutions and when they aren’t forthcoming? They’ll then perhaps look to the person they denigrate and despise so much to save their bacon.
Y’know whut? She’ll do it too if she can.
THAT is the difference right there between a sound bite PM and a leader.
Fantastic! A big, big thank you, Mac. At last someone telling the UK the truth……something we’ve been saying for years. THE UK DEPENDS ON SCOTLAND – NOT the other way about. How are the mighty fallen! At last.
Its not bad Jan and its not hard to find many,many more warnings just like it either.
Many thanks for the link. If you carry on and watch Jim’s other interviews it is fascinating.
My response to Brexiters who play the “it’s decided card” is to remind them that membership in the EU was “decided” in the 1972 referendum that brought us into the EU in the first place.
So either IndyRef2 is legitimate or the Brexit ref isn’t.
You can’t have both.
Good point – conveniently swept under the carpet by the BBC.
As eloquently explained by WGD, all a refusal by WM would achieve is a little more time (and not much more time at that). Time is on our side, so at the end of the day, it would actually result in an increased YES vote.
Well Theresa, do you feel lucky? Are you going to block it?
Och. Please Theresa, go on – block it. Make my day. 🙂
It could be that politically its in Mayhems interest to keep out of the ID2 debate. Her government is fairly right wing. She represents the Brexit faction ( or gives that impression ). Just as they were ignorant of the facts about the EU, they presumably buy the argument that Scotland costs them lots of money.
Those Scots and NI votes excluded would give the rUK 53.3 to 46.7 percent leave the EU. She will have voices wanting to kiss us goodbye. As Call Me Dave said, the Scots are not a Tory problem, they have only one MP here ( at the moment ).
As many have noted for some time. All that is required is for a pro independence Scottish Government to seek a specific manifestoed mandate from the Scottish electorate, to seek the ‘settled will’of the people. A referendum is preferred, but parliamentary elections will do the job just peachy.
Popular sovereignty and mandate = Settled will and action.
Cannae beat it. 🙂
Why the Scottish elections?
Less direct interference from Westminster, simples. It would still effectively be a debate held between Scotland’s population and their direct political representation. A majority pro independence chamber elected on a ticket of independence still gets the job done. If anything, Ms May would want the same level of input as last referendum to stand any chance of affecting the outcome. Though that too will be problematic for her seein’ as how the SASC has a fair smattering of SNP MPs on it these days. Still she has her civil service who did such a ‘sterling’ job last time out. Regardless, if she’s smart (and there is some indication of that), then Ms May would opt for backing a referendum.
I see the yoons at Westminster are getting paranoid. The Torygraph are commenting on the new HoC regs which state that MPs have to uphold the UK!
First EVEL, and now this. Next, they will pass an ordinance that MPs must take this “oath” or they will not be admitted. Then parties will be outlawed if they do not take the oath.
When a power is waking,it thrashes about!!
No doubt, Westminster wants friendly parties!
Just to compound the paranoia, the Torygraph accuses the Russians of “posturing” as they are sending their fleet to the Med including an aircraft carrier. It turns out that HMG has nor enough surface ships available to “shadow it”.
It also runs an article promoting a “Royal Yacht” Mach 2. And the “foreign” Bank of England governor is “criticising” politicians, aka May, for attacking its independence so to speak.
Watch out for new governor of BoE. He has to be, in Thstcher’s terminology of yore, “one of us”.
The nasty party is now becoming a sinister party!! What next, if you want to get on, join die Partei!? Shades of NSDAP!
In the Commons debate this week it was notable that hard-liners like MP John Redwood were pushing for ‘as soon as’ (and not ‘2 years’) to negotiate an exit from the EU once Article 50 is invoked at the end March 2017 (or perhaps even invoked earlier?). Following this logic an ultra-hard Brexit could be ‘instantaneous.’ Perhaps why we have a draft Referendum Bill being floated a bit earlier than anticipated?
Cource: The National Sat. 15th Oct:-
‘Scotland has been ‘treated with contempt’ Nationalists claimed after leaked documents showed Theresa May had ditched David Mundell from her Brexit war cabinet.
The documents obtained by Politico reinforce the likelihood of the UK pushing for a hard Brexit from the EU, with May giving half the positions on the 12-strong committee to hardline Eurosceptics.
But not only are none of the permanent members Scots, there is no space for the Attorney General either.
Leading Brexiteers Liam Fox, Boris Johnson and David Davis all have a seat, as do Priti Patel, Andrea Leadsom and Chris Grayling. David Mundell, the Secretary of State for Scotland, will only attend ‘as required’ by the Prime Minister. There is no space either for the Welsh or Northern Irish Ministers.
The committee appointed purely by the Prime Minister, has met 3 times since the end of July.
It has been secretive, with membership and agenda kept under wraps, but will ultimately decide on how the UK leaves the EU.
Angus Robertson, the leader of the SNP’s Westminster Group, said it was proof that Scotland was not important in the Prime Minister’s negotiations.’
I suppose Mundell will only attend to be told what to do and pass it on.
Labour’s Shadow SoSfS is not even a Scottish MP. The only Scottish Labour MP was not even asked. Mind you, he mucked up and is now Kezia Dugdale’s whatever at Westminster. So the Shadow Cabinet, for what it is worth, has no direct Scottish Labour MP.
And as Corbyn is a closet Brexiteer anyway, one can expect the worst.
Amusingly, perhaps even D. Mundell may be being viewed as a ‘divisive nationalist’ (excluded from hearing the ‘English’ viewpoint) by his own EVEL Conservative colleagues. There is no NI or Welsh viewpoint of course… but we sail on, all highly valued and ‘listened to.’
With the advent of EVEL, why are English MP’s allowed to contribute during Scottish Questions?
Whit the feck has Scotland’s Health Education Law and Order got to do with Michael Fucking Gove?
Filibustering while Mundell pops another Rennie?
We are witnessing the lights going out all over England.
“The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.”
Ironically from :- ‘The Go-Between.’
Maybe Mundell being our of the inner circle is to indicate , former-soviet style, that he is on the way our at the next reshuffle. Out of favour and then air-brushed out. His performances are excrutiatingly bad and getting ‘badder .
Who next for SoSfS? Davidson into the Lords and punted up?
Would agree with the thrust of this article and many of the comments that Scotland should have a referendum in the present circumstances. But consider the scenario if Scotland became independent and integrated into the EU as an independent country – and there is an escalation of the situation in the Middle East and Africa causing an exponential rise in migration into Europe, causing more xenophobia and social unrest. The EU has a referendum for open or closed borders and whilst Scotland demonstrates its humanity again and votes for the former, it is overwhelmingly isolated when its continental neighbours vote for the latter.
Where do we align next?
A valid question, Mark. But as currently the rule must be every EU member state must vote in accordance and agree, if Scotland voted against closed borders and the rest voted for closed borders then we would effectively veto it.
Hi David – yes I thought that would be the position, but it’s hardly democratic – if there is such a thing. I’m all for independence, but I’m just cautious about the move towards the EU. Fine if it’s just an excuse to move away from the UK politically and constitutionally – but the European parliament is even more corrupt and inefficient than the one due south. I think I would prefer to see Scotland completely independent but whether we have the courage and intellect to achieve that is another thing altogether.
Well said WGD.
“The past belongs to the Union” – the title is almost enough to read, and apart from the unlimited variations possible…rather difficult to deny!
All great stuff Paul, I really enjoy your writing. Exciting times, however as a movement I think we’re in danger of over confidence and getting carried away. The unionists/tory govt will fight tooth and nail to hang on to their North British cash cow and make no mistake, they might well surprise us with outflanking measures. I’m afraid they’re not as daft as they look, and it would be a calamitous mistake for us to believe they were.
As for indyref2, if and when, I’m convinced that one of the keys to victory is in converting to YES what is left of Labour in Scotland. That might seem obvious, but from all of us a bit less denigration and a wee bit more persuasion and encouragement wouldn’t go wrong. Most of us were Labour voters once upon a time.
Labour voters, or the Labour “constituency”, has begun to shift. 15% of the vote.
It will take the realisation that the Tory yoons are not interested in the other “yoons”, to move others to see, as many have already seen, that a Westminster now containing EVEL as a guiding principle, is indicative that non-English are unimportant.
After all, there is now no Scottish MP as Shadow SoSfS.
The Labour, LibDem constituency, and those SNP supporters agin the EU, must see that they can retain their identity and rights in an independent Scotland.
It might even occur to the Labour and LibDem constituency that their parties could head a government at Holyrood.
When the then Labour denied more powers to Holyrood during the Smith process,they thought they were hitting the SNP! In effect, they were attacking the Scottish body politic. The wipe out at the next general election sent the message to Labour and the remainder yoons.
With a Tory-UKIP regime in 10 Downing Street, then you can expect no additional powers for Holyrood. Corbyn, too, a southern yoon, has an antipathy towards Scotland.
They are working on their ‘outflanking measures’ now.
As I said elsewhere, we must acknowledge that this is deadly serious for Westminster, and they will use every dirty trick possible to prevent their financial collapse. What we must do is to be totally paranoid, work out their possible measures, and outflank them.
For example, if we think that they could shut down Holyrood, we must have an alternative venue ready. If we think that they will rig votes between the polling station and the counting station, then we must count, and announce, the votes at both locations in front of the public.
That’s certainly the approach Nicola advocates.Include them in Scotlands progress.
Westminster will,indeed,fight tooth and nail in London’s interest but that might not involve fighting an independence referendum.They could,for instance,bring forward a “once and for all” referendum on a smidgen more power for Holyrood,backed by their media as devosupermax.
Our past was STOLEN by the union- now WE take back Our Future.
Through the wonders of I Player, I’ve just watched Andrew Neil rip Mundell’s liver from his quivering body ,eat it live on TV, washed down with a glass of Blue Nun,
Mundell seems blissfully unaware of his actual position in Scottish politics.
He is the only Blue Tory, but falls back on the ‘Scotland voted to stay in the Union, so there’, and repeats that’ we’ll listen’ to any proposals put by NS to WM regarding a negotiating stance which will get the best deal for Scotland, which voted 62% Remain.
He is the SoS yet he feels that he has no remit to be in there with Johnson, Patel, Davis and Fox,fighting Scotland’s cause.
Of course he is a puppet, a gopher, excluded from the Brexit inner circle, yet he demands that Holyrood should come up with Brexit solutions for Scotland, and present them to him to ‘consider’ as Governor General of the colony? Some would call him an arrogant self important little tosspot. Some would. I couldn’t possibly comment.
What is the point of this insignificant quivering wreck of a man?
Gordon Brewer also did a Hannibal Lecter on Ian Murray, the Red Tory’s Last Man Standing.
Murray is as clueless as Mundell. He was Anas Sarwar on speed.
He will not serve on Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet in a fit of pique, so we have an English SoS for Scotland.
He thinks that he is more effective on the back bench Committees than if he were Shadow Sec?
He came across as a petulant, not very bright, overfed wee fellow traveller, which of course he is.
He even refused to declare that Labour could win the 2020 GE with Jeremy at the helm.
What a waste of a seat at WM he’s turned out to be.
Sturgeon and Robertson were put through their paces by Marr and Brewer, and clearly demonstrated, that no matter the viewers’ particular politics, at least we have some politicians with integrity and more importantly, intelligence.
Since Angus Robertson ceded that if all Scotland’s Brexit codicils were met, access to the Single Market, free movement of Labour, Scotland controlling immigration ,Brewer jumped to the conclusion that a second Independence Referendum would never happen, ever again..
Good try, Mr Brewer.
The Road to Independence may have many pit stops along the way. But we shall get there eventually, worry not.
Mundell, Murray, and Carmichael: ‘Give me men about me who are fat; men who sleep o’ nights.’
The next time some lying, bearded Tory bufoon says ‘the most powerful devolved blah de blah’
http://wingsoverscotland.com/exploring-the-options/comment-page-1/#comment-2193191
OK?
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/everyone-in-favour-of-independence-plse-sign?bucket&source=facebook-share-button&time=1472042051