Reports of the demise of the SNP are most definitely premature. An opinion poll by YouGov published this week shows that the SNP still enjoys a commanding lead over Labour in voting intentions for the next Westminster General Election. The poll showed that the Tories are losing support to Labour with Conservative vote share plummeting to 17%, the SNP is on 40%, down 5%, with Labour on 28%.
Meanwhile a poll by Survation out this week shows that support for independence seems to be impervious to the vicissitudes of the party (mis)fortunes of the SNP.
There’s no denying that support for the SNP has slipped back, but it has not catastrophically collapsed in the way that Conservative support imploded during Liz Truss’s disastrous and thankfully brief period of time in Number Ten. All these polls have been carried out against the backdrop of an incessant media barrage of negativity about the SNP and the huge publicity given to the police investigation into the party’s finances, so it is only to be expected that the polling figures for the party are going to take a hit. However the outlook is not entirely dismal for the leading pro-independence party. There are also encouraging signs that things are moving in the right direction for the SNP, with a surge in party membership in recent weeks as people have joined the party with some reporting that they have done so out of disgust with the disproportionate attention and criticism given to the issue of SNP finances whereas Conservative party scandals involving vastly larger sums of public money have passed almost without remark.
As the media focus moves on from the SNP’s finances despite the best efforts of the party’s many enemies and the anti-independence media to keep stirring the pot, the SNP has a chance to regain the support that it has lost.
There will most likely not not be a UK General Election until the end of next year by which time the current travails of the SNP will be a distant memory to most voters. It’s famously said that a week is a long time in politics, a year and a half is an aeon. There is no room for complacency, but that is plenty of time for the SNP to frame an attractive pitch to Scottish voters.
As things currently stand in the state of play of the polls, Labour is not on course to win an absolute majority in Westminster at the next General Election although it does look set to become the largest party. Most observers believe that the recent local elections in England show that Labour will fall short of a majority in the next Westminster Parliament. This is particularly likely given that the polls tend to tighten in the lead up to an election and the Tories will undoubtedly have a few dirty tricks up their sleeve which they will deploy in an effort to stave off or minimise defeat.
Labour leader Keir Starmer has categorically ruled out any deal with the SNP if Labour ends up as the largest party but falls short of a majority following the next Westminster elections. A precondition for the SNP propping up a minority Labour government would be for Starmer to agree to another independence referendum. The SNP have also signalled that they would expect Labour to end its opposition to the UK rejoining the European Single Market and to agree to the restoration of freedom of movement.
However Starmer’s electoral strategy, for all that he pays lip service to a Labour recovery in Scotland, rests upon pandering to pro-Brexit English nationalism in the leave voting seats in the north and Midlands of England which Labour lost to the Conservatives in 2019. Starmer will be keen not to allow the Tories to repeat their effective campaign of 2015 which portrayed then Labour leader Ed Miliband as being in the pocket of Alex Salmond, playing into the widespread English stereotype that the English are victims of anti-English racist Scottish nationalists. Neither will he want to allow the Tories the opportunity to claim that Brexit is threatened by the Scots. So it is scarcely surprising that Starmer is keen to quash any suggestions that he’d be open to doing a deal with the SNP.
The SNP’s Westminster leader Stephen Flynn has predicted that Starmer would change his mind once the General Election is over and the predictable Tory attack lines are rendered politically toothless. He pointed out that Starmer has a long track record of changing his mind, telling BBC Radio’s Good Morning Scotland programme: ” This is the same Keir Starmer who quite openly dropped his opposition to Brexit, he dropped his opposition to nationalisation, he dropped his opposition to scrapping tuition fees, and he dropped his opposition at the weekend to repealing anti-protest legislation.”
More pertinently, Starmer is unlikely to maintain his opposition to any deal with the SNP if that was all that stood between him and the keys to Number Ten and he no longer needed to worry about Tory claims about Labour being in the pocket of the SNP having an impact upon the number of Labour MPs at Westminster.
The reality for Starmer is that the SNP will still most likely remain the third largest party at Westminster. The Lib Dems may currently be buoyant about their prospects but realistically they will have to more than treble the number of MPs they have if they are to be confident about overtaking the SNP as the third largest party in the Commons. That’s a very big hurdle to overcome. If Labour is returned as the largest party but falls short of a majority it’s going to be very difficult for them to form a government while ignoring the SNP. Starmer will do a deal with any party which holds the balance of power, and that party is most likely to be the SNP.
In the meantime the SNP can maximise its support in Scotland by stressing its opposition to Brexit, contrasting this with Labour’s attachment to the extremist Brexit of the Conservatives and highlighting that it would force a minority Labour government to restore freedom of movement and to rejoin the single market. That will allow the party to pick up votes from remain voters who are not necessarily sold on the idea of Scottish independence. It must also stress that it is the only party which has an unequivocal commitment to Scotland’s right to determine its own future as opposed to a Labour party which is as eager to ignore Scottish democracy as the Conservatives are, while it highlights that Scotland can only introduce effective measures to tackle the cost of living crisis if Holyrood has the full range of powers of an independent nation. It must also stress that should the SNP go backwards in the General Election and lose a significant number of seats, Labour will backtrack on its already weak proposals for extra powers for the Scottish Parliament and its uninspiring plans for reform of the House of Lords. Only the fear of Scottish independence makes the Westminster parties pay heed to Scotland, and the only metric by which they measure that is the electoral strength of the SNP.
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“In the meantime the SNP can maximise its support in Scotland by stressing its opposition to Brexit”
Not from Independence supporters, who mostly want indy to be the absolute priority.
People say “Well who are you going to vote for, Labour?” when they should be wondering whether people will vote at all.
Undoing Brexit without Iny ain’t gonna happen.
Sorry, Flynn is in cloud cuckoo land and it is May.
And SNP can’t do both?
No-one is going to be surprised if Independence is front and centre of SNP campaign next time out, but as, if seems likely, the SNP hold a strong bargaining chip with Labour in a hung parliament, arguing for the reversal/watering down of Brexit isn’t going to lose it any votes either.
Now I don’t want them to enter into any formal government/pact in the event of no Labour majority, I don’t trust them to be any less sleekit than Cameron’s Tories were in blaming Clegg’s LibDems for all ills in that coalition. Now you may say “hell mend them” and I’d agree, 10 years on from that and I don’t think they’ve fully recovered from the damage that caused them!
The SNP group should be making clear concise demands ahead of any “confidence and supply” arrangements, front and centre of that is no Section 30, no support! I’d be arguing for Brexit reversals too, but realistically as Starmer looks to hold onto any “Northern Red Wall” seats, that seems unlikely to succeed but that doesn’t mean it isn’t prominent in SNP election campaign.
As Paul says we’re minimum 18 months out from a GE, despite a suspiciously high profile police investigation (and unless I’ve missed it, no charges yet!), the SNP’s travails will fade (although the cynic in me wouldn’t be surprised at more “revelations”, investigations, etc conveniently happening during the GE campaign!).
Scotland won’t be any less polarised politically, voting SNP is still the best (only?) way to drive the Independence cause, who knows maybe this will backfire on those who wrung their hands with glee at Sturgeon’s demise, if there’s one thing I’ve learned in the last 10 years or so, is pissing off your average Scottish voter being told you canny have Indy, Brexit means Brexit, etc, do so at your peril, I wouldn’t entirely rule out SNP 50%+ of the vote, unlikely as that might seem now?
“I wouldn’t entirely rule out SNP 50%+ of the vote, unlikely as that might seem now?”
Only if the SNP declare, as Sturgeon said, that a vote for the SNP is a vote for Independence in the GE.
And I’d say it’s actually likely in that case they’d get over 50%. Indy voters will turnout.
As for Labour, their support will continue to drop from its high and faced with weak watery wobbly Starmer Tory, or outright open “onest” Sunak Tory, I think the English will go for the real thing. There will be no hung parliament.
The SNP might have a basket of items it wants as the price to support a minority Labour regime. But…….they must ask for one thing only, because only one thing matters for Scotland.
They MUST insist on the transfer to Holyrood of the power to hold a referendum, and that must be the first Bill through Westminster.
If that is denied or voted down, then support ceases.
Brexit, trans rights, fair voting—-all must wait till we are independent.
And Labour have only one policy—to exploit Scotland for its oil, gas (to freeze English local taxation) and our renewables power. Starmer has zero interest in social or economic concerns in Scotland.
Labour – in London at least, so they’re presumably toeing the line up here – have ruled out doing any kind of deal with the SNP.
Wait and see; if Lab + Lib = 59.9% then there might be a reverse ferret, but don’t hold yer breath.
WGD agree Brexit is still an issue and clearly demonstrates a difference between with the SNP and Greens with the acceptance of Brexit terms by the Lib Dems, tories and of course Labour. I think ALBA is cool on the eu but supports efta? NI demonstrates how lucky they are with their preferential treatment over Scotland to Scotlands detriment. As some people go on hols abroad they watch Irish and eu passport holders freely move between countries and wonder, why?
I do believe we can move forward and press at a GE for a vote for Independence. After all it is clear labour and tories are saying vote for unionism at the next election. We can beat the britnats.
Whoever handles press briefings at NEC level of the SNP need to be on the phone to Pacific Quay twice a day asking why they are not broadcasting the significant rise in membership again.
BBC Shortbread cannot be allowed to ignore this story any longer but the NEC seem to frit to take them on and challenge them as to why this isn’t their main headline ahead of the nightly trope of “The Scottish NHS is shite.”
The majority vote for Independence. Not for the BBC losing supporters faster than a sieve loses water.
More Independence supporters need to go out and vote. Along with another. A higher turnout.
The majority do not support the BBC. They use the services and know how good they can be. Even better with Independence,
Humza Yousaf doing well. Scottish Gov questions.
The security aspects at UK airports are totally over the top. Causing queues everywhere. Totally unnecessary.
You should try Schipol if you think UK airports are bad.
I always used to go through Schipol as it was far better than London as a hub.
Schipol has an art gallery – an offshoot of the Rijksmuseeum – in it. Very civilised.
It’s probably also one of these Brexit bouses.
But hey, we’ve got blue passports (courtesy of the French) now.
What’s not to like?
Like the wee quote over the ‘Lords’, there are only two second houses of government in the World that have ‘religious’ leaders, they be Iran and englandland.
Anglican bishops still in there along with ‘real’ lordships who are only there subject to a ‘god’ given right.
Gove to ditch the Leasehold law change for englandland, the YoYo government in charge, next u-turn will be along soon as the GE gets closer.
You would think the rich cynic is getting ready for a quick dash to the country to keep a good number of tory mps in a job.
Yeah I seriously doubt they’re going to get anywhere with Lords reform* which Independence supporters can take advantage of.
*unless they are in a formal coalition with Lib Dems, in reality a confidence and supply akin to 1976 is probably more likely
I agree, Sunak will go early.
The Tories will win the general election by doing what they always do, threatening English voters with the terrors of a Scottish political party having any authority in *their* English parliament
Labour will deny any deal and England won’t believe them, Tories win
The voters in Scotland that think voting Labour will make some difference to anything are just plain deluded, in the last 60 years had Scotland never cast a vote in any general election the exact same governments in England would have been in place by virtue of Scotland being outvoted 10 to 1 by England’s voters
It makes no difference what Scotland votes because the system was designed to fill Westminster with what England votes for otherwise there would have been proportional representation throughout the UK, but there’s not and never will be because England would then be at the mercy of what Welsh and Scottish voters might decide, and of course remember that Northern Ireland casts no votes whatsoever for Labour or Tory because neither party stands in Northern Ireland making them the total recipients of whatever England decides without reply
At least Northern Ireland has the legal right to decide to leave the UK and be in and out of the EU all simultaneously even before they vote to reunite with the republic, so if you’re from that neck of the woods there are lots of choices
Without independence Scotland has no choices
Labour in the next UK election is really make or break for the union.
If after what will be 14 years of Tory led Government, Labour STILL can’t convince England to vote for them, when will they ever? A massive opportunity to attract new support from left and centre voters to Independence to deliver the change we need.
Even if Labour does get in, as you say Paul, a Starmer government is always going to be pandering to the right. By the next Holyrood election will Labour really have a record in government to be proud of when the SNP are opposing it from the left?
Given over 70% of Scots don’t want a Labour UK government, I think it’s break or break.
Dateline: 1 June 2023
Place: Edinburgh
Organiser: Our Scottish Future (aka the Broontosautus in drag).
https://nation.cymru/news/we-must-unite-around-mission-to-change-the-uk-says-ex-pm-brown/
We must unite around mission to change the UK, says ex-PM Brown
11 May 2023 3 minute read
Former prime minister Gordon Brown will use a rally next month to call on people to “unite around a mission to change the UK”.
The former Labour leader will speak about the need for change in both Scotland the United Kingdom at the event in Edinburgh on June 1.
Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford and Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, will also speak at the event, as will Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar and actress, comedian and writer Arabella Weir.
[…]
Will they,Aye
Political fishing exercise hoping to attract the angry of all sides
It’s Gordon Brown with his hand out for the King’s shilling again
Anyway since when does a *think tank* become a political movement, and who scrutinizes the funding to hold rallies?
Mission to change? I’m up for that! How about working for change to this?
Change to a geographically proximate, culturally and historically linked group of nation states (hopefully involving Ireland) along the lines of – in terms of constitutional status and in terms of commitment to friendship and cooperation – the Nordics.
Independent England (with regional devolution), Indy Scotland and Indy Wales, plus hopefully a cross community agreement, peacefully arrived at, in NI to address the issue of a united Ireland – all coming together in something akin to the Nordic Council with places for existing and potentially new sub national/sub state equivalents of the Faroes.
I doubt Gordon Brown could conceive of any such change.
Indeed could England’s political establishment countenance any future predicated on such neighbourly cooperation between equals?
As things stand, Scotland’s future (and Wales’ future too) is England’s choice!
WS- why does Brown need to give a months notice of what he is going to say.
It’s the same drivel, from the same britnat toadies.
We have heard it all before… and before .. and before. He is admitting the Brit system of government doesn’t work but we know that.
Nothing here for Cymru nor Scotland.
Vote labour vote Tory = the same 💩
Independence for 🏴 & 🏴
Why Brown has to give a month’s notice, I have no idea. As you say, it’s the same old, same old. (It’s not as if Starmer is listening to him or Drakeford, if it comes to that).
I do think you should invest in some proper flags, though, Hamish. Otherwise, you get two banners of deepest Ibrox blue.
Here’s one I made earlier:
Gordie…yawn…
The only thing not mentioned, but entirely likely given current Labour behaviour, is that Starmer would invite the Tories to support him in a “government of national unity”! Would anyone actually be surprised??
At the moment the only difference I can perceive between Sunak’s Tories and Starmer’s Labour is the brand names .
Starmer is already a knight so he can invite his boss king Charlie lll to take over.
The people of Scotland will and will always be the best people to govern Scotland. 🏴
Reblogged this on Ramblings of a now 60+ Female.
Good interview on Caledon Radio with Bill Cruikshank who lives in my constituency i.e. Andrew Bowie is our MP. I posted a link to Caledon Radio recently for anyone who has given up listening to the MSM.
Topics range from the current SNP direction, the AUOB march and reinvigorating the grass roots. Quite a positive mood in spite of the suffocating cultural void we are forced to live in.
https://caledonmedia.scot/2023/05/11/bill-cruickshank-11th-may-23/
Did anyone tell the gaffer?
So here’s the thing.
I marched last Saturday and there are STILL voices to decry the SNP
Nonethless…..I heard Joanna ……superb and eloquent voices for the cause.
……..and yet……I read of some Trumpian woman demanding Joanna join Alba!!!
Oh please………..
I hope you had an umbrella, my wife was drookit having chosen to wear a puffa jacket.
I heard Cherry on tv running down SNP colleagues.
Just sayin.
🏴
Did you hear, or read, all of what Joanna said last Saturday, Hamish? More of what she said is printed in The National this morning and I think it may be the first time one of our SNP MPs or MSPs has actually said publically that the section 30 referendum route is well and truly dead. Joanna did make a reference to the Supreme Court decision of last autumn, saying that she thought the process had been ill advised and the way she said it came over, at least to me in a somewhat derogatory way, but at least that decision cleared up the UK government position and we now know where we stand on a referendum. Joanna like all the others who talked about independence last Saturday stressed the basic necessity of unity in our movement. That’s the really important message at present.
Indeed, but those calling for *unity* seem to suggest their style of unity is the right unity and other unities are wrong
Too many people with their own tiny little hammers insisting on a shot of hitting the big nail when just one big hammer will do
Well I don’t think it was ill concieved, if the purpose of the court case, which was to have a ruling on whether under the Scotland Act the Scottish Parliament had the authority to call a referendum on independence without permission, therefore removing a Section 30 from the equation, it succeeded. Nicola who undoubtedly new it would be denied warned westminster that the next GE would be used as a defacto referendum. Step up all the diddies in the NEC and MPs/MSPs who didn’t like that idea, it frightened the shite out of westminster though hence the current stushie using tents. We are still on course for that to happen. Unfortunately we have the unscrupulous making hay while it’s still seeing down rain but we’ll get there.
Completely agree with you Golfnut, I’m sure going to SC has clarified the referendum route and I sincerely hope the next GE is fought here accordingly.
Joanna Cherry join Alba? Join a party that’s a complete electoral dud.
Saw Alba plan to talk about cancel culture at their conference.
https://archive.is/RwMbs
Following on from discussions here, it’s worth remembering that ‘no platforming’ is not something new, it’s as old as human civilisation.
People have always decided who can say what publicly within their homes and businesses. That is the essence of free speech; the right to decide who you give your platform too, and all the reverberations which might result, from a boom in trade, to boycotting and angry protests outside.
What’s happened recently is that the right have named this ‘cancel culture’ and pretended it is some ‘new fad from leftie-liberals to restrict our free speech’ with the aim of pressuring venues into hosting them / the views they espouse against the owner’s will. This is where the attack on free speech actually is. They’d extend this to your own home if they could, but that would be too obvious.
Och lol.
https://archive.is/77zIi
Joe Biden says he was in Northern Ireland to make sure ‘the Brits didn’t screw around’
Joe Biden has said he visited Northern Ireland for the anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement in April to make sure “the Brits didn’t screw around”.
The US president made the apparently sceptical remark about the UK’s government’s approach to post-Brexit issues at a fundraising event speech in New York on Wednesday.
“I got to go back to Ireland for the Irish Accords, to make sure they weren’t … the Brits didn’t screw around and Northern Ireland [Unionists] didn’t walk away from their commitments,” Mr Biden said.
#specialrelationship
Joanna’s speech from the AUOB march
Joanna Cherry: This is how we sort out the SNP and win independence
https://archive.fo/9f4QT
The SNP submission went the self-determination route, but that was largely ignored by the UKSC except with some rather strange comment that it wasn’t applicable because, errrr, no evil suppression of our whatevers.
THAT incompetent dismissal really shows the weakness of their decision, they fluffed rather than dismissed.
However, the case was brought under the Scotland Act and hence its determination was quite reasonably made under the Scotland Act. If the UKSC route was tried again it should totally ignore the Scotland Act as superflusus, and perhaps even illegal. Perhaps such a case could be crowdfunded.
And it could be Cherry and O’Neill using their talents FOR Independence, rather than vindictively against a comedy venue.
Indeed, if independence were a band Joanna Cherry would be the keyboard player at the back, necessary but not noticed
The singer or front man/woman sells the show, a job that Joanna Cherry has no clue how to do, and it can lead to the breakup of the band when other members think they’d be better at it than the one they’ve already got
You either do the job you’re suited to or join another band
What you don’t do is make the arguments you have in rehearsal public knowledge, it puts folk off listening to your tune
Well, if she ever did want to be the leader, she would need to learn not to take the huff, like over the Strand. That’s for lesser mortals. I can’t think of any time Sturgeon took the huff and she had plenty of reason to.
The BBC’s consistent no-platforming of the SNP would be a much more worthy cause to fight for, and actually justified in terms of free speech.
While I’m at it, from the National:
“Alba conference to debate independence strategy, cancel culture and election plan”
WTF are they wasting time on “cancel culture”, chasing a squirrel up a tree? I’m guessing it will be mostly about GRR which is a squirrel that’s been ping itself with laughter for years now.
And hey, guess what? It will be another excuse to spend their whole conference whinging about the SNP rather than concentrating on positive moves towards Independence.
Yes, that word was “Independence”, just to remind the politicians and activists who seem to have a dictionary ending at “h”. They should google it.
Independence? Glad she has remembered the word.
https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/05/05/joanna-cherry-cancelled-edinburgh-fringe-festival/
Or me, me, me, me
Yoko Ono making herself more important than the Beatles comes to mind
It didn’t end well in the popularity stakes for Yoko
Rashi Sanook (Joe Biden’s description) has just stated that the Ukrainian struggle against Russia is not a political one but that of fundamental human rights (independence)!
A fundamental right that is denied to Scotland by England’s parliament.
What does that make them?
Yeah but England’s like our Mommie and Daddy and Scotland’s behaving like disobedient children being influenced by that bad Nicola Sturgeon, oh and the guy before her, and oh, by the new guy as well, it’ll all die down soooon once England gets rid of the failed Scottish parliament experiment and takes back control of Scotland, then everybody will be content once again
Mmm, from the National:
“Keir Starmer ditches plans to release autobiography”
It was going to be called:
“Yet another Labour Leader with no chance of forming a government”.
The Liberal Democrats, a party that distributes more leaflets containing SNP bad rhetoric than all the other parties put together accuses the SNP of a “waste of trees” over the release of their white paper on democracy for Scotland
We had a leaflet from them a few weeks back.
I don’t even think they stood a candidate here.
From the National:
“Richard Walker: How the SNP can build on their relationship with the Yes movement”
…
wait for it
….
What relationship?
Who is, are, or where are the Yes movement though? seems everybody’s claiming to represent *it* at he moment
Okey-dokey, here’s a classic non-indy example of an incredibly wrong headline, from the Herald this time:
“Scots receive £200-a-month mortgage payments rise bombshell”
£200 a month is £2,400 a year and for that to be 0.25% you’d have to have a mortgage of £1million.
Jings, those Herald journos are grossly overpaid!
Turns out it’s the sum of all rises over the last 18 months, so it must be a bombshell with a very very very long slow fuse. Or they think their readers are very slow in the uptake.
Reality is like so:
https://archive.is/buhHp
A household with a tracker mortgage currently at 5.25% will see their pay rate rise to 5.5%. These deals directly follow the base rate. This means their monthly payments will rise by £21 a month, assuming they have a £150,000 repayment mortgage with 20 years remaining. Their monthly payments rise from £1,011 to £1,032.
The increase may not sound much, but as recently as last June that same household would have been paying £776 a month, meaning their payments have risen by a third in just under a year – equivalent to a £3,000 annual increase.
That be something like this:
Calculator here:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-11385239/Interest-rate-rise-mortgage-calculator-cost-you.html
The Tories used to claim to be the party of home ownership; that is dead in the water due to their economic policies.
The Stand apologised to Joanne Cherry and reinstates her event.
Breaking news apparently.
Good if true. Common sense breaks out at last.
BBC report here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65575748
American style litigation threat wins the day
*Has anyone misrepresented or dislikes you or someone you know, call now on *we’ll find a law to force people to like you*
A pyrrhic victory I suspect.
You and Dr Jim are dumb and dumber and I claim my £5. Even the Stand accept they got it wrong and you two halfwits still don’t get it.
I’m sorry, the lost property office is next door.
But if you must put your brain away in a miniature marmalade jar at breakfast time, you really should expect to have it mistaken for a shred of orange!
No they didn’t you nit, they’re terrified of being sued by a nut job publicity seeking lawyer and all the ensuing lunatics that’ll attract so they’ll say whatever they have to say to avoid it
Goodness me. The dream tag team are in full flow here. Rumours were true.
Just goes to show in this “fair and just society”.
If you have the money and the solicitors you can bully people into submission to do your will.
It’s all too Judge Dredd for me
I have a feeling the Stand won’t be booking anyone other than comedians for next years festival and beyond. I hope there is no trouble at the event for everyone’s sake. I had a feeling they might cave in. I wonder if she will support covid or holocaust deniers if and when they try to book that venue.
I wonder if she will support covid or holocaust deniers if and when they try to book that venue.
These are ‘deeply held philosophical beliefs’ for some.
I suspect the answer to your question is no however.
I just hope any trans staff, their friends and/or family members are not pressured into working at the event against their will if Cherry is to give her views on the gender issue. If she was talking about Scottish indy, the economy etc, fine, but this one affects people, real people, raising questions about their honesty, mental health and fitness live alongside other members of society.
I get that those who understand the current arduous GRC process well, yet continue to back it, believe my natal female niece is a either some sort of mentally ill loony (hence the need for an expert medical diagnosis of mental illness in the from of dysphoria), or a lying, dangerous sexual predator (same again). Well, I can’t stop them thinking this nor saying stuff along these lines to audiences who would choose to listen. But don’t force me – or heaven forbid my niece come nephew – to e.g. serve them and their audience drinks when they are voicing these views.
That is ultimately the issue here. Free speech has two elements: (1) the right to say to others who wish to listen what you believe, which is balanced by (2) the right of others not to have to listen if they don’t wish to.
So the comedy club needs to ensure only those staff that freely agree to work at the event do so if they have decided to host it. That or the venue gives instructions as to what topics are off limits for those on stage, as is their legal right, particularly if their staff are present.
Anyone working in hospitality will tell you it is normal at political events etc for staff to depart the hall during speeches, debates etc, closing the doors firmly behind them. That way, only the willing audience listens, meaning e.g. Tories can rant about ‘the dangers of migrants’ while said migrants are not milling around with trays of drinks and canapes. Speeches over, and the doors open again for staff to resume refreshment service. At that point, said Tories are expected to moderate what they say lest they be ejected by the venue.
If the comedy club serves while people are on stage, maybe they could change things so that staff leave while Cherry is doing her stint, coming back when she’s finished. That might be another approach to allow both (1) and (2) to be satisfied.
So, independence supporting venue staff at the Scottish Tory Conference shouldn’t have to listen Sunak or Ross because it was contrary to their beliefs, which if I remember correctly a judge ruled was almost religious. Apologies if I’ve misremembered.
Technically, they’d have a decent case, at least to not be present when the Tories were saying how Scots could, uniquely, not survive alone as a people as they were lazy drunks, needing the largess of the English etc.
Which is why you’d normally expect hotel staff to withdraw behind the closed doors when such speeches were being made. ‘Let them get on with it’ privately, then return with the refreshments once they’re done ranting, so long as they behave while getting their tit bits ands top-ups.
I’m guessing that at a conference there are no staff in the hall itself, same as at a cinema there are no staff in the theatre once the film starts.
The Stand on the other hand serves food and drink.
So I guess as long as it’s widely advertised at the time of selling tickets, that the bar and kitchen are shut, then that’s OK.
No it’s not OK. It’s failure to provide the same service which is offered to everyone else. For example Jeremy Corbyn is also booked and if food and drink is provided during his event then the same must be provided for Joanna Cherry.
I am surprised by the lack of understanding of the Equality Act and what constitutes discrimination. Joanna Cherry is right to say that public education on this topic is long overdue.
*Public education* is that another new name for we don’t care what you like or don’t like
Thou shalt have no preferences taste or opinion other than what we say the law says
This approach only works when it suits some people, until those people don’t like it when the next thing doesn’t suit them
Prejudice preference and opinion as far as I’m aware have not yet been made illegal
I think you miss the point. If you look at the venue in pictures as I did, it has tables with glasses and food at the tables, which means that staff – perhaps transgender staff – would have to take food to the tables, clear glasses from the tables – and would be unable to avoid listening to a speaker denying their chosen existence to perhaps a cheering audience.
What about THEIR rights Capella, don’t you care at all about them? Are they not also to be considered under the 2010 Equality Act? Which I linked to several times in the old days of Wings?
As I say. No food or drink, hence no table service, she gets a platform, the audience get seats, and get left to themselves. Or they can take in their own and sit there with it in front of them till the talk is over. Spill a drink? Clear it up yourself.
You have a vivid imagination but you don’t understand discrimination law. Joanna Cherry supports trans rights – they have the same rights as everyone else. Refusal of service the grounds of your beliefs is discrimination.
You don’t understand human rights. One of which is this:
“the right to work in just and favourable conditions”
https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/human-rights
Are you now arguing that The Stand is unjust and unfavourable?
Are you going to try to twist everything I say as you know you totally lost your argument and can’t admit it?
It was a rhetorical question.
You are wasting your time trying to explain this to them Capella. Dumb and dumber are as stupid as their comments suggest. Difficult to believe I know.
But apparently she does not believe they should have an easier route – selfie- to gaining a Gender Recognition Certificate.
In other words, human rights f0r those and such as those.
No it’s not OK. It’s failure to provide the same service which is offered to everyone else. For example Jeremy Corbyn
Interesting. So you back the Comedy Club being legally forced to give e.g. Vladimir Putin, Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson, Marine Le Pen… a platform for their views?
Corbyn is historically pretty left wing, hence I suggest some pretty right-wing contrasts for example, as the principle at heart applies equally.
Nobody forced The Stand to book Joanna Cherry. They offered her a space and then withdrew that offer because of her beliefs. No venue is forced to book anyone. But if they did book someone and then withdrew that offer because, for example, the staff discovered the person was black and they don’t want to serve drinks to black people then they would be discriminating.
I use that example because that was the situation in the US until the civil rights movement ended the colour bar.
But if you think it is fine to discriminate against people, if you are against freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, then you are quite free to argue your case. I don’t agree with you. It is not the kind of Scotland I want and thankfully it is not legal.
You need to be more precise, what views are you talking about? Not all ‘views’ are protected. Support of (or opposition to) Scottish Independence is protected and a venue cannot refuse to allow someone to use the venue to share those views. Support or opposition to Brexit is not protected thus Farage would not hold the same protection to share those views.
Support of (or opposition to) Scottish Independence is protected and a venue cannot refuse to allow someone to use the venue to share those views.
Huh? Of course they can, at least if staff must be present when they are being shared, as per my earlier post which could not have been clearer.
Are you seriously suggesting I can force this place to let me do such a speech in front of all its staff (maybe regulars too)? One where I attack the UK, saying it’s a shithole, that it’s not a real country, that you can’t really be British, you can only self-id as that etc? How the royals are leaching scum and stuff? Then move on to my support for Irish reunification for good measure?
🙂
What next, you are saying I can force the local mosque to rent me their adjacent event hall for a talk on the benefits of tantric group sex? Or even my local village hall for that matter. Would Ethel the tea lady have to serve during the session and if she refused that would be discrimination on the grounds of my religion (tantrism).
Heavens above, this is getting silly.
Well, if Farage was using the Cherry argument, it would that be was being discriminated against because he’s a man, a self-identified heterosexual, and e.g. pro-UK union; the latter being covered alongside independence, certainly for those of British national identity (protected characteristic).
Which would be a lot of guff. The reason would be they venue staff wouldn’t want him saying how much of a danger migrants post to our wives and daughters, and how they should be closely vetted as a safeguard before being allowed to go about their business. This might be because the owner is a migrant like some of the comedy club staff could be trans. Or friends, or relations…
So my point stands. You are allowed to speak, but I cannot be forced to listen, notably in my own place of business.
Are you seriously suggesting I can force this place to let me do such a speech in front of all its staff (maybe regulars too)? One where I attack the UK, saying it’s a shithole, that it’s not a real country, that you can’t really be British, you can only self-id as that etc? How the royals are leaching scum and stuff?
Non of those views are protected so thus do not fall under legislation
Would Ethel the tea lady have to serve during the session and if she refused that would be discrimination on the grounds of my religion (tantrism).
Yes it would be illegal for Edith not to serve you because of your views. This is pretty common sense, how would you feel if Edith would not serve you because you believe in Scottish Independence.
I am amazed that this is such a big issue, the law has been in place for over a decade and there was a high profile case around it only a year ago.
Question neatly not answered.
British national identity is a protected characteristic. I cannot attack it openly in front of Brits forced to listen to me. End of. Nobody can be forced to listen to my views. Nobody. That’s the essence of free speech. I get to speak, others get the choice to listen, but cannot be forced to. Staff must be allowed to leave the room if necessary, such as if their beliefs are being attacked.
And it was Ethel. She could not be forced to serve me while I showed tantric sex clips for demonstrative purposes on stage. It’s comical to suggest this isn’t the case and she’d have to.
his is pretty common sense, how would you feel if Edith would not serve you because you believe in Scottish Independence.
You are tying yourself in knots here. She can’t not serve me simply because I believe in Scottish indy. But she can’t be forced to listen to my speech on the evils of the UK and how Britishness isn’t a real identity (even thought it’s hers and a protected characteristic), but a made up one – serving me tea while I say this.
But you won’t listen here and will simply conflate the two again as Cherry also does deliberately, so what’s the point.
Going back in imbeds as it’s one word per line, Capella you said:
“for example, the staff discovered the person was black and they don’t want to serve drinks to black people ”
THAT is the wrong way around. The similar case, though clearly not applying to Cherry, is this:
“for example, the staff who were black people, discovered the person was anti-black and they don’t want to serve drinks to anti-black people”
Depends what you mean by “anti-black”. Incitement to violence or to discriminate would be illegal. Throw them out or call the police. If they are just rude then call the management. Otherwise, treat everyone with respect.
People cannot withdraw a service (ie serving a drink) because of a persons view. However, they can withdraw a service because of the way that a person expresses those views. So if the person worse a t-shirt with ‘I hate black people’ you can refuse to serve them because wearing clothing with wording that could be considered offensive is illegal.
Exactly. Cherry saying trans people are ‘mentally unwell or liars who pose a potential sex assault risk, meaning we need safeguards around them, such as having their heids examined before they can be fully part of society’ counts as this.
If ‘Trans people = mentally ill (dysphoric)’ t-shirts would be considered unacceptable, then so would saying the same on stage, however politely. It’s also anti-science bunkum to boot.
That’s why venues are concerned about hosting her talk. Obviously. She was just lying when she said it was because she was a woman who claims to be a lesbian.
Anyhoo, we are going around in circles again here as always with this topic, so I think it’s time to move on.
Cherry has used strong arm tactics and got herself forced into other people faces once again. I recent resorted to setting google news to not feed me articles mentioning her as she’s given platforms everywhere – a particular favourite of the British anti-SNP press. I was starting to tire of hearing her views everywhere went.
In this sense it’s comical to suggest she’s being hushed up for her views. Jeez, the UK Tory government supports her views and they are in charge of the law here, in addition to broadcasting.
Oh wait, have I discriminated against her by blocking her in my google news feed? Surely I have based the logic of some on here?
Anyhoo, we are going around in circles again here as always with this topic, so I think it’s time to move on.
Agreed the venue has admitted that its decision to cancel her show was discriminatory. Wether or not you or me agree with that is unimportant.
You have attributed views to Joanna Cherry that she does not hold. Bold. In view of the currency of this case I think you would be wise to apologise and withdraw them.
Scottish Independence Podcasts has posted a collection of clips from the AUOB march on 6th May. Some short, others about an hour. You can catch up here:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmrDKalFQSLCu729WBmvUqiA5YeSzDTAM
Actor Dougray Scott says he knows Nicola Sturgeon was set up by the British state
I agree. But does he have any concrete evidence apart from “of course they did”?
BTW I also think that is what happened to Alex Salmond although he did provide some ammunition with which to shoot him.
It’s usually sex or money, sometimes antisemitism (how they managed to smear Jeremy Corbyn with that is impressive). HY’s turn will come, probably in the run-up to a referendum/election. I hope Kate is ready to jump in quick. Hard to believe they could rake up any scandal on her given her high moral principles but let’s see – they are good at manufacturing evidence when required.
I think Kate already gave them ample ammunition by what she said during the campaign. I have been quite stunned by how many people don’t like Wee Frees (Free Church Scotland members) including my elderly cousin and she is actually quite right wing – she watches GB News and supports Tory government immigration policy
Hard to discriminate against Wee Frees without being sued for it as today’s example of the U-turn by The Stand demonstrates. Religious belief is a protected characteristic. There was a recent case of a religious leader who was “cancelled” by the SECC (I think) and he successfully sued for c £100,000 under the Equality Act. Damages probably reflected loss of takings.
People like Ms Cherry can sue but ordinary people don’t because they don’t have the money to do so . Only reason Joanna does not get a lot of hassle from the media is because she is a thorn in the side of any Snp leadership The person who sued the SECC was an American evangelical preacher if I remember correctly. The Free Church has shrinking congregations like all churches in Scotland so doubt they would have the money to sue anyone. Kate could if denied a platform However I would prefer politicians kept religion out of politics The MSM will use Kate’s religious views on whatever way possible to damage the Snp as they already have done.Basically their indepth questioning re her religious views and her honest answers probably lost her the Snp leadership
I found Kate Forbes’ honesty and principles refreshing (even if I don’t agree on everything e.g. same sex marriage). If the SNP has no room for people who are honest and principled then they’re doomed IMO.
Had Kate Forbes been black not a word against her would have been uttered for fear of a race row
Kate was victimised because she was fair game being white
Humza’s beliefs are virtually the same, yet tumbleweed
None of this is the fault of the SNP, what happened is human nature preferences and taste, and the fear by all institutions to confront the issue of racism which works in both directions
Racism exists in black culture as well as white, and their institutions and lawyers use it whenever they can to win arguments
Article:
https://archive.is/sXxn1
‘CONVENIENT’ Dougray Scott says Nicola Sturgeon was set up by ‘nefarious’ enemies amid SNP finance probe
This sort of thing is why I’ve said the union is likely in real shit if this is the wild goose chase The Daily [Unionist] Record front paged that it might be.
A good few people at the top of the SNP do now need to be tried and convicted of some really serious s**t to ensure #campervangate does not badly backfire for the UK. The Brits have created this situation with blue tent hype and desperately need to maintain the benefit they have got from it – so far maybe a bit of a drop in SNP support (but not indy) – if Yes is not to climb rapidly instead.
If the investigation concludes there’s not some major scandal permeating every level of the upper SNP, people will feel they’ve been led a merry dance by the British media, and they will not be happy at all. This requires no ‘deep state’ conspiracy theories; we all know the British media is not being honest and is trying to milk this for all it can. There is an inherent danger in such things.
This is not difficult to work out and many people have seen it coming
The leadership race, the Salmond connection, Tory David Davis, the hiring of an Alba advisor all connected to who now? and she’s still there because they can’t get rid of her until the next election
Jackie Baillie during the questioning of Nicola Sturgeon having her mobile phone turned on and receiving messages from who? before she asked her questions
“Ye havnae seen the last o my bonnets and me” he said, well we’re seeing them now, except they’re organised and paid for with the English shilling, right down to parking their tents on our front lawn
What? that significance never dawned on anybody?
“If the investigation concludes there’s not some major scandal permeating every level of the upper SNP….”
=========
Do you think that contingency will become an actual reality?
It’s where the Daily Record has put it’s money, and that paper would so deeply love to see the SNP ‘cremated’.
https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-labour-media-chief-criticised-for-saying-party-will-cremate-snp-at-next-uk-general-election
I suggest the final outcome now has to be that some wrong doing occurred. Even if it is just someone paid for paper clips (or “luxury pens”) from the wrong account. Police Scotland can not be seen to have squandered all this time and resources, blue tents etc. only to have found nothing. I imagine them now, all the would be Rebuses, Taggarts and Logan’s sifting through all the impounded material again and again. “There must be something!” It will be dragged out as long as possible to keep the cloud hanging over SNP.
The accusations centre on the allegedly missing £600,000 donated to the SNP, if it’s not missing I’m not sure that being charged with anything else is going to be viewed as anything other than a political attack by the state. By the way that’s a breach of the 1689 Claim of Right.
The US and European media have already passed judgement on what’s happening in Scotland.
Who complained?
Who benefits?
Certainly not independence.
So who complained…….
Golfnut: You are absolutely correct of course. It’s already being viewed as a political attack. Still think the likely outcome is some relatively trivial misdemeanour not related to the £600k. This will allow the MSM to trumpet the misdemeanour for weeks on end, of course “clarifying” what the investigation was about with pictures of blue tents etc. Thus drawing attention away from the true nature of the fiasco.
The British doublespeak definition of ‘missing’:
Missing
adjective
(of a thing) which is exactly where it is understood to be, right there in front of your eyes, properly accounted for and independently audited’
No drugs, no murders, no organised crime syndicate being early morning raided
It was a show, and they went ridiculously over the top in staging it
Somebody was ordered to make it appear much more serious than it was to justify doing it in the first place
Boris Johnson probably committed more crimes in an afternoon than Nicola Sturgeon and the entire SNP combined has in their entire existence
As expected.
https://archive.is/dNMXd
Keir Starmer says Tories have ‘lost control’ over immigration numbers
KEIR Starmer has accused the Government of having “completely lost control” of overall immigration amid speculation net migration could be set to reach record levels.
The Labour leader’s comments are a change from Labour’s usual tune on immigration, with the party previously taking the Government to task over illegal migration only.
But when asked on Friday about reports that net migration to the UK could reach one million people in the last year, Starmer said that would mean the Tories had “completely lost control”.
Yesterday on here one or two peeps yesterday noted Gordon Brown is holding a rally in June in Edinburgh…..
This is via his Think Tank ‘Reform Scotland’ …and it is apparently a Pro Union rally.
SAME Think Tank that has been “named and shamed” for its dark money funding structure.
Reform Scotland…Why is it only Scotland that Brown’s Think Tank seeks to reform ?……and in what way should it be reformed and by whom ?
The rally is headlined by Gordon Brown THE former LABOUR leader and other speakers at the rally includes Manchester LABOUR Mayor Andy Burnham, Wales LABOUR FM Mark Drakeford and Branch office LABOUR manager in Scotland Anas Sarwar.
So is it a Pro Union rally or a pro UK Labour rally ?
Why now ?
Is it because currently Labour are trying to capitalise on what is being promoted by both Labour , other parties too, and the media that the SNP are apparently a party in “chaos”…..so is this ‘Pro Union Rally’ being held by Gordon Brown simply a case of political opportunism as opposed to him and his Labour colleagues presenting an actual real Pro Union vision for Scotland…
Let’s be honest a ‘Pro Union rally’ and a pro Labour party rally ,given all that has happened since 2014 is , as far as Scotland is concerned , pretty much both LOST causes and not ones that have been or will be in the future of ANY benefit to Scotland ……but THIS rally they hope will benefit politically the LABOUR party here in Scotland.
Are we here in Scotland always just meant to ignore all of the “chaos” linked to both the Labour and Tory parties….why do they assume that their current and past scandals, bad policies and infighting have NOT impacted Scots voters confidence in and support for them and their (non) Union ?
Are we , the voters, here in Scotland expected to just ignore any political and constitutional impact upon their parties when they are #BAD…..
It seems that when any negative publicity is linked to the Pro UK parties that are reported in the headlines (not so much reported HERE but darn sarf via English news) it is somehow then not expected, via them, that is should then cast any doubts, via the voters in Scotland, on both them as a party or that which they support i.e. the so called, but now proven NOT to actually BE , Union..
So apparently their group thinking is that ONLY #SNPBAD news should impact the SNP via the public which in turn is then assumed to also ultimately lead to a negative impact in Independence via Scots confidence in it and support for it……that seems illogical and a tad way too selective and partisan via these Pro UK political parties group thinking (and too their media here in Scotland)…..yet also predictably where we are ALWAYS at with them……
Does Gordon Brown actually have the audacity aka Brass neck to think he can now hold a Pro Union rally in Scotland promising us “change” here in Scotland with any actual semblance of justification and credibility given his many PREVIOUS interventions, via his way too many Pro Union speeches pre and since 2014 .
So is this the same LABOUR Gordon Brown who in speaking for HIS so called but NOT Union……was reported as colluding with TORY Michael Gove in secret yet NOT so secret meetings to “compare notes” (measures to CON Scots voters once again) on how to save their Union (as in THE non existent one) . he should speak to TORY Lord David Frost as according to HIM ““Scotland is NOT a nation” but instead he said we should only consider to recognise ourselves to be part of a ” unitary state” as in “UK citizens”…though that is NOT what Brown told us Scots in (another) speech on the eve of the Indy Ref vote in 2014 where he said ““The vote tomorrow, the vote tomorrow, is not about whether Scotland is a nation; we are, yesterday, today, and tomorrow”……perhaps HE Brown should now “compare notes” with Tory Lord David Frost…..
THIS is all you need to know about how desperate and how low Labour and Gordon Brown will go to stop Scotland becoming a progressive, thriving and independent Nation…..colluding with a Tory government minister to cook up new ways to con Scotland to stay in their Brexit UK indeed it was also reported LABOUR and the TORIES had a ‘secret’ yet not so ‘secret’ meeting, referred to as a ‘Summit’ , to discuss how to address some of the Brexit failures (Michael Gove ,once again HIM, was there as was Labour’s David Lammy)……
Their so called but NOT actual Union is on it’s knees and they think by dragging out the person , Gordon Brown, who LIED to us in 2014 (pre and since) will save it…..no chance….but we all know the media here will do it’s bit to ensure massive publicity is given to this event……be a bit like a party political broadcast for the LABOUR party really…given that those headlining it are LABOUR politicians….who knows they might even be stupid enough to get together with some of the old BT gang and let them have their moment at the event…..a moment that will be reminiscent of what we all had to suffer in 2014 when Tories of all colours colluded to con voters in Scotland that their UK as in NON Union was best for us in Scotland…..same one that we are now all suffering in but NOW post 2016 we are no longer part of another ACTUAL Union…i.e. the EU….and that was NOT down to us in Scotland as we voted to stay in that one….but once again we were forced to leave it all BECAUSE we are still a part of both Gordon’s and Labour/Tory/Lib Dem’s so called but NOT UK Union…..facts matter……to us…to them NOT so much…..
Pro Union rally ?……
NO THANKS…been there, done that etc etc
Have a nice day everyone
🙂
Gordon Brown’s so called politically neutral *think tank* has now declared as a political campaign group for a chosen constitutional cause so should be scrutinised as to where the funds come from for political campaigning
This to me should lead to an investigation by the electoral commission
Gordon Brown can’t have it both ways
Reform Scotland doesn’t mention Gordon Brown in it’s About section. Jack McConnell is there and Chris Deerin is Director. They do publish their annual accounts back to 2010. They recently hosted a discussion on “No platforming versus Freedom of Speech” following The Stand episode, which was interesting.
https://reformscotland.com/2023/05/no-platforming-versus-freedom-of-speech/
Hi Capella …you are right …it is “Our Scottish Future” which is Gordon Brown’s new Think Tank and is THE one holding the rally in Edinburgh alas I read a piece on the rally that noted REFORM so confused IT as the name of Brown’s new Think Tank…..that’s MY story and I am sticking too it….LOL…..hard to keep up with ALL the anti Indy Think Tanks that currently exist…..but IT, Our Scottish Future, has been, as a Think Tank, “named and shamed” for it’s dark money funding structure…….would not be surprised if some of the money was sourced via the current Tory UK government…..WITH Michael Gove’s blessing…..every little helps…or so they think….
Still ask why Scotland’s future is assumed to be something that a Pro UK organisation gets to debate and decide….as to ‘Reform Scotland’ and too ‘Our Scottish future’…..well
Best REFORM and FUTURE for Scotland is via independence for REAL change for us who LIVE in Scotland…..
Have a great day Capella
🙂
Ah – mystery solved. There are far too many think tanks to keep up with. Let’s hope they will die a natural death after indy.
Have a nice day too NMRN – sunny in these high pastures 🙂
Interesting choice of city, is it a street rally or will it be inside. Will NI send a delegation and flute bands lead with renditions of HIS and land of hope and glory, or maybe the sash. Surprised at Mark Drakeford because his view is that the Scots have the right to a referendum. Will the BBC give it the same nonexistent coverage as the YES March or will they have to get James Cook to do something. Numbers will be a big problem if you look at how many bother to turn up at the liblabtory conferences. The BBC could always rent them an audience.
HIS = God save the king.
Gordon Brown’s thinktank is Our Scottish Future, NOT Reform Scotland which is a totally different one.
On its about page:
“Who we are
Our Scottish Future was set up by the Rt Hon. Gordon Brown to campaign for …”
… fooling the plebs into voting against Independence.
“Our Scottish Future” was incorporated as “Private Limited Company by guarantee without share capital use of ‘Limited’ exemption” on 30 July 2019 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC637457 a shade under 5 years following Gordon’s infamous “Vow”…
Perhaps “Our Scottish Future PLC” would be a better description of Gordon Brown’s vehicle than ‘Think-Tank’, still trying to sell booze to the Indians despite them going TT following his last outing…
Just so you know.
https://archive.is/sdexR
Sir Keir Starmer promises his Labour reform will be like Tony Blair’s Clause IV ‘on steroids’
In a speech on Saturday, the Labour leader drew comparisons with Sir Tony Blair’s controversial 1995 decision to abandon the party’s founding commitment to nationalisation in favour of his New Labour agenda…
…”That’s why I say this project goes further and deeper than New Labour’s rewriting of Clause IV… this is about rolling our sleeves up, changing our entire culture – our DNA. This is Clause IV – on steroids.”
New Labour on steroids. Now pro-brexit and tougher than the Tories on migrants, people on benefits etc.
Remember that Labour just did pretty badly in the council elections. They’re in a worse position than under Ed Miliband in terms of seats held.
So Starmer will now go even further to the right in response, which is what’s happening.
Anyways gadgies Popn(Scotland) = Popn(Scotland) + 1 and we’re gran and granda at last. There is much joy, and we can’t wait to see and hold our grandson.
Well congratulations YIR2 – if I’m interpreting the code correctly! Busy knitting I expect and practising walking the floor at a steady pace to the tune of Scotland the Brave?
There were some anxious moments as their mobiles were in airplane mode or no signal.
I wonder what sort of Scotland he will grow up in?
Hopefully one where debates are always robust but respectful – like ours!
A free and fair Scotland is what we are all working towards and I do hope YIR2 junior enjoys growing up here. Good luck to all. 🙏
He’s lovely. It all comes back when you’re holding the baby. They’re great parents. Looking forward to baby-sitting – it’ll be a bit of a competition with the other grandparents 🙂
Congratulations 🥂🥳👶
Thanks. He’s an IVF baby, and it really is a great service here. I’d like to see it get even more of a budget, more tries, more babies and more freezing.
We actually need it long-term (I’ve seen the graphs), and it really shows the stupidity of the Tories with their 2 child limit for child benefit. The UK as a whole needs bigger families long term to balance increased life expectancy – or euthanise the over 60s. Scotland has far more brains. The Tories have a collective IQ of -66.
Congratulations YIR2, you’re in for a treat now ;0)
It makes it all very real.
There was a beautiful haar here on the Clyde yesterday, quite cold when surrounded by it. With the islands looking like new small islands rising above. It’s very rare here. East meets west 🙂
Congratulations on the birth of your grandson, how lovely.
This is exactly as I understood things.
https://www.smb.london/news/no-platforming-impact-on-freedom-of-speech/
The legal framework
The idea of no platforming is to deny controversial speakers the chance to speak at a particular venue or institution. It does not deny them the chance to speak altogether and speakers can always take their words somewhere else. The internet provides a free platform for anyone at any time. After all, it is not a human right to have a platform, it is a privilege.
Whilst universities and political parties alike must comply with freedom of speech provisions contained in Article 10 (as outlined above), it does not give anyone a positive right to a platform. It provides a defensive right to prevent the government from interfering with free speech.
The duty to uphold freedom of expression in a strictly legal sense falls on public authorities. Universities and political parties are private institutions* and as such no platforming is not covered by the ECHR. Article 10 seeks to protect public bodies from interfering with people’s freedom of speech, but it does not give protection to those who have been no platformed by private bodies.
No platforming is perfectly fine for private institutions, businesses etc, so long as it done on the basis of opposition to what will be said, not the person themselves based on a protected characteristic they have.
So, for the umpteenth time, I can’t turn someone away simply for being a Christian, but I can say I’m not hosting an event they want to hold where e.g. gay marriage will be openly condemned on stage etc.
—
*As is the comedy club, and as are hotels, conference centres etc.
Once again, you omit the following two paragraphs from the document you quoted that contradict the case you are trying to construct:
The Stand invited Joanna Cherry. Then The Stand cancelled her because of her protected characteristic i.e. her belief that biological sex matters and that women’s rights must be protected. That is discriminatory.
BTW that belief was ruled “worthy of respect in a democratic society” by the Appeal Court in the Maya Forstater case.
See Equality Act 2010 note 52:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/10/notes?view=plain
I don’t believe anyone is disputing that biological sex isn’t something that matters, nor does anyone want to put people at risk. I have a wife and daughter.
It’s uniquely treating trans folk like they’re not right in the head or potentially dangerous sexual predators that people have issues with.
Cherry is discriminatory towards trans people. She accepts self-id for all protected characteristics except trans. Uniquely she won’t take trans people’s word about who they are. Understandably, this upsets people.
Personally, I couldn’t care less if she speaks at the comedy club. She’s an irrelevance with a big gob that haughtily claims to speak for people (women) she doesn’t speak for. However, I don’t like the idea of venues being pressured into hosting people giving speeches about stuff they don’t want said on their property, no matter who that is. Free speech is not about Cherry using the law to force me to hire out my conference room to her so she call my niece a mentally ill risk who needs carefully vetted to an ecstatic audience while I legally have to bring her another glass of wine. Hence the law is as per the article. I don’t have to do this. I can say no. If she wants to have a party or have her wedding, fine, but no GGR stuff please. End of.
And I think we should draw this to a close now before WGD no platforms us. 🙂
Huh? You are quoting the Education Act. How on earth would that apply in the case of the Stand Comedy Club?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stand_Comedy_Club
It even says ‘In a university context’ as the opening words. Did you not read what you posted?
As a side note, I imagine universities can probably uninvite as a get out clause here, although I’ve not looked. At the same time, speakers are limited by what they can say, e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech#Harmful_and_offensive_content
For example, claiming trans people are mentally ill fruitcakes – as implicit in the demand for a diagnosis of dysphoria as part of a GRC application – is definitely getting into this territory. That or e.g. saying they are potentially lying sexual predators so need to be uniquely subject to vetting before having their protected characteristic legally recognised.
And every woman I have asked has told me Joanna Cherry is not standing up for their rights, so this just isn’t a true claim.
I quoted the document you linked to above. I actually read it through, something you obviously didn’t do.
https://www.smb.london/news/no-platforming-impact-on-freedom-of-speech/
Under “legal framework” you only quote the first two paragraphs and omit the second two. You yourself state that The Stand is a private institution like universities and political parties. Do you not read what you have written?
*As is the comedy club, and as are hotels, conference centres etc.
Joanna Cherry is standing up for my rights and my female friends rights and also for women’s and men’s rights to freedom of speech and assembly. But you didn’t ask me. Don’t attribute views to Joanna Cherry which she doesn’t hold. As I noted upthread, an apology and withdrawal of false accusations would be wise.
Universities are not state owned, so yes, they are private institutions. However, they receive varying levels of state funding in terms of fees and research grants. Hence they are covered by the Education Act, which facilitates what you quoted about invitations to speakers re free speech.
That obviously doesn’t apply at the Comedy Club though.
I’m not sure why I even need to explain this. It says all this in the article being quoted.
I’m certainly glad I’ll not be around when A.I rules the world, although I’d love to see the lawyers faces and the defenders of *the law* when it does
They’ll all be wishing for the return of the democracy they read about in history books
The Stand also receives public funding – it received £250,000 from Creative Scotland during Covid, the biggest award for arts venues according to the Sunday Mail.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/sunday-mail-uk/20201115/281646782673535
AI like cold fusion is always 20 years away.
What the media are reporting on now is machine learning code. Or to those that know, a fancy algorithm.
And now for something completely different. Herald:
“Starmer prepared for ‘dirty and nasty’ campaign after local elections success”
Sunak: “We give you Tory policies”
Starmer: “No, WE give you Tory policies”
“We’re more Tory than you”
“No, we’re more Tory than you”
“We’re far right of Margaret Thatcher”
“We’re further right of Margaret Thatcher”
“You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my £5”
“No, you’re Jeremy Corbin and I claim your £5”
You couldn’t make it up!
”You couldn’t make it up !”- but Starmer does , every time he speaks !
Vote Labour – vote Tory – it’s all the same !
That’s the Westminster Choice ( pat. pending )
Wow,
On a day when the tory party are having a meeting to demand democracy in their party, saying that the mps are not the party and the rich cynic doesn’t have the support of the party.
We have
Sky regurgitating the SNP arrests and the motor home etc.
Someone called connor gillies has a clickbait article.
Unfortunately, I read it through to find nothing new.
Connor Gillies works for GB news now so only to be expected
He works for Sky he was posting on Twitter yesterday as a Sky correspondent
Scotland – Know your enemies, Part 4392 b:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/connorgillies/
Once a journo, always a journo.
Scottish Parliament Business Bulletin for next week:
https://tinyurl.com/mushct9x
I’m not exactly a fan of the Greens as being a part of the Scottish Government, with their foisted policies being a pita. So this about Lorna Slater’s little expedition to Rum comes from that point of view.
Righty. 8 people travelled.
By Calmac if they could actually get a booking for 8 people on the same day (it’s a small ferry, I’ve often seen it while in the wait queue for the Armadale ferry), on a Friday they’d get 3 hours on Rum to do the business. Cost? £75 for all 8 BUT THIS IS RET which means ScotGov picks up the difference. For the sake of argument that’s another £75, so it’s a total of £150. For what might be not much more than 2 hours effective time.
If more than that time was required it would have required TWO overnight stays for all 8, accommodation, meals, subsistence.
It wouldn’t have taken long for the somewhat stupid H&I Tory MSP shadow minister to check out google, and find a Mallaig taxi to take them there and back for a total of £500. And that basically for however long they needed – all day perhaps, with an early start to Mallaig. I didn’t bother firther – there are other fine taxis including from Arisaig.
Fact Check: Donald Cameron is a moron. Lorna Slater used the resources very wisely towards a desirable objective. And she was supported by the islanders themselves who also use taxis at times.
Anyways, back to head-wetting with, for some highly appropriate reason, 19 Crimes which I call “Grimes”.
Afore I do I’m genuinely astonished that an H&I MSP is so appallingly ignorant of travel to the islands.
When I plan my trips, with accommodation and island hopping, it’s a precision military logistical exercise, check hostel and ferry availability, a quick phone around to hold hostels for a half hour, and a phone call to Calmac so I can book all ferries on the “itinerary” – or try again some other time if booked out meantime.
I’m actually quite impressed that Lorna Slater did it so well. Politicians aren’t as otherworldly as I thought.
You would have thought that a Highland and Islands Msp would have known that the Highland and Island Council use these ‘ taxis ‘ for exactly the same reason Lorna Slater did.
Yes.
Perhaps he doesn’t do enough constituency work to ever talk to the Council.
Thought I’d share this as a matter of interest, yes it’s fb but it’s in the National.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/215556435841901/permalink/1337962786934588/
👍 https://archive.ph/7fDxj
Thanks Bob 👍
Amusingly, the confected original piece starring “Donald Cameron is a moron” is still being promoted as the number one story on BBC/Scotland/Politics at 1 day old.
The alternative and updated version of events are only in the National and well down the priority list, https://archive.ph/6iQol, where essentially the foot-stamping by “Donald Cameron is a moron” was roundly rubbished by RUM’S community trust.
It’s not clear what role education at Harrow, Oxford and CU London played in failure of “Donald Cameron is a moron” to be elected as MP for Ross, Skye and Lochaber in 2010, Orkney and Shetland in 2015, then as MSP for Argyll and Bute in 2016.
Were it not for the Tory regional list, the public might never have heard of “Donald Cameron is a moron”, with consequent reduction in BBC Scotland output for both listeners….
LOL 🙂
There will be protest at the Strand. An employer has the right to protect the welfare of the Staff. Legally they have to do so. If glasses get throw etc, Police have to called,Bounsers have to be employed etc. Staff need breaks and have to be protected from harassment. Bully complain of being bullied. Their views shoved down other throats. Controversy caused that could be done without, gives peace.
People are struggling with a cost of living crisis. Poverty needs aleviating. Houses need built and improved. Abused people need support. Roads need repaired, and bridges built. Low unemployment etc. The elderly and sick need support.
Enough to concentrate on. Instead of an extravagancer at the Strand. Plenty of contovercy. They is going to be a rammy. Instead of indifference. More bad publicity. Any publicity for attention grabbing personalities. Bad publicity is still attention seeking publicity. People could concentrate their efforts on improving and helping others, Not a tiny majority of dissenters. Especially those elected by the majority.
If Scotland waste Ibdependence more people just need to go out and vote for it at the Ballot Box. A higher turnout of Independence supporting voters. Along with another. 50/50. A higher turnout would do it. Get rid of the unionist opposition. Use it or lose it,
Local/council elections 40% turnout. Holyrood elections 50% turnout. GE 60% turnout. Referendum 85% turnout. On average. Independence supporters need to get out and vote. Instead of abstaining and arguing or blaming others.
Denia by.
Cable says. LibDems will not go into coalition with Labour. After the result of a general election. Coming soon,
An increased Indy vote, highly likely, will lay down the challenge, especially in Scotland. Who wants to poison chalice of Union disunity, Reiunifucation of Ireland highly likely people will vote for it. Westminster total mismanagement and corruption. Damned damn will finally break. On to a better future. Oil, gas energy, renewable fuel. Pure water in abundance, No illegal wars, Trident or redundant weaponry. No tax evasion. Tax Laws enforced. No financial fraud. Or illegal imprisonment of so many people. A police force that serves and aids the eople.Not a tax evading, hypocritical monarchy as the Head of State. A poor example of healthy living. Over consuming and lecturing others. The Royals either slim down or bow out. Illegal interference in Gov policy and Government. Give the stone back along with the rest. Manipulation and didhonesty of a reckless Westminster Gov. Not honouring any mandate or manifesto promises. Brexit a total con of Westminster con Gov. Cop out.
Liberal Deja vu. Cable claims.
Gie’s peace.
Oxbridge subsidised 200 to 1 of all universities by public monies. So the tax evaders of public monies can get an education. Totally subsidies. Then go into politics to ruin the economy and the lives of other people. Killing people. The rights,privileges and entitlement of few low life non learners. Blinkered by greed and pride. There will be an election soon. People, especially in Scotland, will have a right to vote them out at at last for a better future.
Kate Forbes went to Cambridge and Edinburgh Uni. From an ordinary background. A smart, caring cookie. Humza is doing well for a privately educated individual. Chose the SNP, Alex Salmond gave him his first job in politics. Alex encouraged and promoted Nicola.
Karma. .
No jury trials being promoted. A travesty of justice. A judge endorsing political pressure. The supposed autonomy of justice. Craig Murray put in jail with no jury. A miscarriage of justice. No conducive with the Law. Innocent till proved guilty. Appealing right enough, with a lot of support.
So “operation branch form” according to the Brit paper the Sunday Mail has heightened its investigation of an Amazon account and whether every day items were bought! 1000 instances of possible fraud. Own up I’ve bought the milk from the wrong account and a 1000 promo pens and pencils.
Amazon is terrible and My wife is guilty of buying things without me knowing.
Police Scotland Please send an investigation team immediately. My gardens is too wee so forget a gazebo.
Also 2 men drove the campaign bus north! Why they feel it is important to identify that it was 2 men or 1 man 1 women or any other option is beyond me. I thinking they have watching too many spy movies.
Police Scotland is not as bad as Englands Met but they are trying hard to emulate.
The journalist concerned must be pleased they got a front page. Stopped buying the Sunday Mail long ago— I know some Independence supporters claim it has a good football page.- if you are old firm inclined. Divide and rule.
🏴
At one of my past places of work – an SME with quite a small number of people – staff used the company prime account to get free delivery etc, then reimbursed. MD even had his personal card on the account to order stuff off.
Of course the issue of holier and now journalists who got others to listen to telephone conversations, make fake stories and the suppression of other stories over the years.
Legitimate stuff you’d have seen on the books actually purchased for company use included gardening equipment (no wheelbarrow but plants, pots, compost, a trowel, a rake), BBQ stuff, jewellery, a wide range of kitchenware, hand creams, ladies sanitary products and other toiletries… off the top of my head.
All perfectly legitimate purchases for a company; in this case a specialist lab based uni spin out.
Just as staff used the company prime and reimbursed, so the company regularly used my card and paid me back. Sometimes it spent hundreds on my personal card. This too is super normal.
FFS
I’m agnostic, but if anyone is a republican why on earth would you want to sign up to “Republic” which is campaigning for a UK Republic – i.e. WITHIN THE FECKING UNION? Join here instead:
https://ourrepublic.scot/
THAT is the Scottish one, or here for the direct signup:
https://www.patreon.com
Note very carefully I am not a member nor would I be. After Indy I might even vote for a royal head of state I have no idea what I would do. But this is like the RSPCA advertising in Scotland, when we have our own SSPCA looking for funds. I consider it to be theft – RSPCA stealing our donations, and Republic stealing our own republicans.
And the National in its sheer stupidity and astounding ignorance continues to promote Republic while never even mentioning Our Republic.
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.
That patreon link should be:
https://www.patreon.com/ourrepublic
I’m not endorsing “Pateron” in the slightest as I know nothing about them at all. That’s following the link through from the ourrepublic dot scot one.
We are getting conned, fooled, taken for mugs, robbed, by the National. We zip up the back.
Saw that yesterday,donations to englandland’s republic,
aye right.
The red tory manifesto.
There will be Hard Fiscal Rules.
More of the same then, just a different name on the door.
When will Scots see through this?, take the resources and charge us for them.
Yes, the clue is here:
https://www.republic.org.uk/our_head_of_state
“Britain’s head of state”
“What kind of republic will Britain become?”
That’s “Britain” not the UK, so the Union is dead, but also so is Scotland which just becomes part of an enlarged England. And did those feet … we all sing as we support Britain’s football and rugby teams.
Well woopety-doopety doo dah. Indy dead, and we can all call ourselves British and worship the President. Bow down and greet your presidential British masters!
Did I forget “Swing low sweet chariot …”?
Bow down and greet …
I guess you meant both senses of ‘greet’ yir2.
How come so much information is being LEAKED re Police investigation into the SNP that both SKY News and the Sunday Mail (and other MSM) are promoting it…..yet NOWT on the same SCALE is being LEAKED re Police investigation into Michelle Mone (if indeed it IS STILL being investigated)….
Is anyone complaining to Police Scotland that the disclosures being published by the media in what is a ‘LIVE’ case is contrary to what they, the Police, advised the public NOT to do via Social Media…..yet so far the Police seem to be quite complacent about it ……if it were YOU or I making THE same disclosures and speculations on Twitter or other social media….would the Police be so reticent.
How is it that the general public have been warned NOT to discuss OWT via social media on this case by an official Police notice…. where they, the Police, WARNED people NOT to discuss or speculate on this investigation as it was a ‘LIVE’ investigation and thus to do so would potentially be seen as being in contempt ….. YET the media can disclose what THEY say is currently being investigated and established re what Police have so far, according to THEM the media, found during their investigation…..
I mean WHO is disclosing this information to the media ?
Why are the Police not warning the media to desist from doing this ?
Plus because this is happening in the MSM then certain individuals who are opposed to both the SNP and also to independence are now promoting this information on social media and MUCH MUCH more in way of conducting what is very much a ‘Trial by social media’ where they, as members of the PUBLIC, are both speculating, condemning and thus have determined that they ,the SNP, are GUILTY …..BEFORE the Police investigation is concluded………as it is seemingly considered by them as okay to do this because the media are both publishing and broadcasting this information…..so NOW the media disclosures have resulted in SOME of the PUBLIC participating in much speculation, discussion and condemnation against the SNP being deployed via SOCIAL MEDIA contrary to the Police Scotland advice notice at the outset of this investigation…..
Is anyone from the SNP challenging this happening ?
Police Scotland advised us that “The matter is active for the purposes of the Contempt of Court Act 1981 and the public are therefore advised to exercise caution if discussing on social media”
So I assume that the MSM are exempt from this…..as in we , the public, are told by the Police to NOT discuss this case on SOCIAL MEDIA but seems tis okay to discuss and DISCLOSE details on MSM….seems so….and thus the uber Yoons, also known as the PUBLIC, are now discussing all of this on social media……
Plus certain opposition politicians are ALSO adding their opinions on it via SOCIAL MEDIA……
I am so sick of this S*** (rhymes with PIT) where excessive scrutiny is deployed upon the SNP yet so much scandal and wrongdoing via the Tories is ignored and thus NEVER investigated and ultimately they are never PUNISHED…
Scandals and corruption that involves Millions, and too in some cases BILLIONS of pounds, but the police in London turn a blind eye as does those who are SUPPOSED to investigate and monitor both the media and also the body that is supposed to investigate politicians at WM……
That’s one of MANY reasons that I want independence ….to get away from all of the UK corruption we here in Scotland are exposed to via both their MSM in their UK and too their political system at WM…..
Sick of it.
That’s a top rant NMRN, I agree with every word. They are determined to milk it for every last ounce of SNP bad they possibly can.
The reek of hypocrisy is overpowering so it’s little wonder we call it this “stinking Union”.
If indeed the Mail etc didn’t make it up hence there is no case to answer at all..
It’s not as if MSM does not have a history of producing tripe, you only need look at the vast back-catalogue of tripe over the last decade.
Even such bastions of journalistic integrity as HMS “dishonourable” Sarah Smith have brought us incontinent pigeon ninja assassins and homicidal showerheads at QEUH, and the latest iteration HMS “like the suit” James Cook is no less ridiculous.
Agree.
Of course maybe nothing is leaked.
Maybe it is all made up by the newspapers. It’s their raison d’être. It is coordinated though.
Yup
One for the bibliophiles?
https://nation.cymru/news/academics-challenge-indyref-myths-including-importance-of-the-vow/
Academics challenge Indyref ‘myths’ including importance of ‘The Vow’
14 May 2023 3 minute read
A book by a team of political academics aims to dispel “myths” about the 2014 independence referendum, including the importance of “The Vow” in its outcome.
In-depth analysis carried out by the Scottish Election Study (SES) team also challenges widely held assumptions about the effect of the referendum on political engagement.
The team looked at polling, election and survey data in the years around the referendum, comprehensively documenting how voting behaviour and social attitudes shifted.
Their book, The Referendum That Changed a Nation, looks at how the political landscape changed up to 2019, including discussion of the Brexit referendum.
[…]
“Healthcare firm ‘owned’ by Tory Lord Ashcroft landed £53million in NHS contracts
“Medacs” was owned by Impellam Group – the majority shareholder an offshore (non tax paying) trust owned by Ashcroft
Ashcroft does not pay UK tax, he claims Belize residency”
Sourced via Carol Voderman…..she is one of MANY who now are seen as the ones who represent the OFFICIAL opposition to the Tory party in their UK….as Labour , via Starmer, currently fail to be…… as they, New New Labour under Starmer are too desperate in their quest to strive to be recognised as the NEW OFFICIAL Tory party in HIS UK also known as England…..
Pass this on to Holyrood Mandy…her NEW boss Lord Ashcroft ‘ACQUIRED’ the Holyrood magazine…..via his company Political Holdings…..she, Rhodes, is ANOTHER one who is overly keen to publish many a #SNPBAD article …….yet look at who her employer is and what he gets via the Tory UK government…….
“Tory Lord Ashcroft landed £53million in NHS contracts”…”will we ‘Read about it’ in HER next article….I think NOT….too obsessed with ensuring the SNP are targeted as apparently being the ONLY BAD ones in UK politics …..another one who thinks Scots are thick and gullible…..
That’s ….Mandy ‘anyone but the SNP’ Rhodes……a journalist in title only….but to others she is just another one of the many client media that represents the political parties supportive of the (non) Union and who are actively AGAINST the SNP….and thus independence…….
“Medacs”?
Is that not a typo for “Mendacs”? 😉
No it’s an acronym for “Lies and mendacity”
😀 We’re singing from the same hymn sheet, Capella …
🙏
I’m in a kind of fey mood so here goes.
A director, shareholder, person of significant interest, a decision maker, decides the company needs a mobile office for its site work. The director sees an opportunity and urgent need and quickly buys a bus that’s being sold off by a bus company. He pays cash, as otherwise he has to wait for bank drafts or to get in to make a same day transfer as the bank is shut.
At the end of the company year he puts in his chitty for the cash but as the company hasn’t budgetted for this expense it is put into a category in the accounts into an asset pool, and depreciation is made both for and against in the balance sheets and P&L, but no money changes hands. It is technically a loan repayable within one year.
Nothing illegal, nothing untoward, it would be better if there was a resolution of the board of directors to purchase the beast, but hey, there is only one director. And he’s actually in no hurry for the money as his heart is in the business, and many years as well.
The HMRC accept the accounts, as does Company House.
Oh, so someone notices that the accounts show a value of £3,000 in the asset pool, and being mathematically minded deduce that this is £4,000 at purchase with 25% depreciation, and that if you add the 6 months motor tax which dealers insist on before the vehicle can leave their premises, minus the refund of 2 months when parked up, plus a half tank of diesel to get the beast home in the first place, plus a number plate charge, the figure that would be owed in total would be £4,186.20. No Green Shield stamps were given.
“Introduced into the company”
Did I fail to mention that?
HMS James Cook’s latest wheeze https://archive.ph/butcb is a lesson in impartial journalism, the only saving grace being it demoted the “Donald Cameron is a moron” story over Lorna Slater closer to the grave it should never have left.
James’s latest adventure “Nicola Sturgeon ‘absolutely failed’ Scottish children – commissioner” perfectly demonstrates propaganda by omission – Attempting as it does to restore credibility to the failing Guiser Geissler vehicle “The Sunday Show”, which might possibly double Martin’s audience who don’t rely on subtitles to perhaps 100, it’s that headline which matters at Pacific Quay, that’s what their sponsors pay them for.
The BBC article really is worth reading for a lesson on why BBC Scotland exists – Are they making comparison to England ? Hell No – the ex FM’s vision, the “Once in a generation game” where scots win a pair of sliding doors.
Yet down near the foot of the article rests “In 2021 the Scottish Parliament backed incorporating the UN convention into Scots Law. However, a Supreme Court challenge from UK law officers said the legislation could affect Westminster’s ability to make laws for Scotland”
The UK has suffered from so many disastrous PMs in recent times, but I’m fairly certain in 2021 the State of a Secretary for Scotchland was the same Minister for Flounce, and member of the “Royal Company of Archers” Alister (couldn’t hit a barn door even if it was in front of him) Jack.
Yet is is James Cook’s focus on “The Scottish Conservatives said Mr Adamson’s comments were a “devastatingly brutal assessment” of how ministers had failed Scotland’s children” where the gambit collapses in laughter.
– The contribution “they should be cleaning chimneys” from Stephen Kerr was thankfully edited by Nick Robinson before 30p Lee thought someone took him seriously.
This was an “impartial BBC broadcast”…
I read this and the STV version utterly mendacious journalism. The part that was also emphasised throughout the paragraphs of keech was how it was Nicola Sturgeons ‘absolutely failed’ legacy.
I don’t know how others are starting to feel about this level of journalism, I’m finding ot to be a great sign of increasing desperation heaped upon increasing desperation.
The media have failed the people of Scotland beyond anything I even thought possible, I’m certain of one thing though and that is that this shite propaganda attacks masquerading as “reporting” has not gone unnoticed even by opponents of Independence. It just makes me think we must now be approaching the end game and they are throwing the kitchen sink , baby and bathwater all at the same time in an attempt to halt the inevitable.
In other words they are losing, the propaganda is failing and they know it.
Yep
Anyone saying ‘Sturgeon failed’ is clearly not impartial. It’s clearly personal / political.
Sturgeon is just one member of the Scottish government’s cabinet, and has no more power to pass laws than anyone else. On top of that, the SNP have not had a majority since 2016, so all laws made since that time are equally the responsibility of other parties such as the Greens, who have held government cabinet posts since 2021.
The economy, welfare & benefits – key to giving children ‘An adequate standard of living for all children in Scotland, to have a safe, warm home, good nutritious food and the right clothes to wear’ – are reserved matters, with only limited devolved powers in the latter case.
The UK is failing Scotland’s children, and there’s not much Sturgeon could do to stop this. Only some mitigation was possible. Yousaf faces the same. Independence is the only way to get the powers needed here.
Yeah, imagine thinking they can keep getting away with this shite and claim to be impartial journalists.
There’s no better example of the BBC and STV throwing the kitchen sink at the SNP.
👍
Thankfully BBC Scotland has a diminishing audience
The Herald tweeted this :
“Anas Sarwar keeps his distance as power struggle grips Labour councillors in Glasgow”……( also known as we , The Herald, will NOT pursue him on this matter …..with the SAME vigour….if indeed at all…. that we, The Herald, constantly vigorously pursue any individual(s) connected to any #SNPBAD story ‘real’ or concocted….for reasons……too obvious to note)…
“Anas Sarwar keeps his distance”….I bloody bet he does…..cannot rock the boat ….in the political ILLUSION that is being formed via those protecting the Labour party and their (too) hopeful assertion that in Scotland they, Labour, will be the supposed WINNERS in the next GE against the SNP…….thou shall have no #LabourBad stories promoted at what is a time of us the media hoping that they, Labour, will benefit politically amidst all the #SNPBAD news that we, their friends in the media, are promoting for (what WE and THEY hope too will be for) LABOUR’s political benefit AGAINST the SNP ….and also for their, Labour’s, support for the status quo of the UK being maintained……so all for a reason…too obvious to note…but I did…LOL
We also hear about the REAL stooshie and REAL chaos regarding the Labour party’s selection process for a candidate to stand in a potential by-election in Rutherglen and Hamilton West that has been branded a “complete farce” (also known as a SET up)…the candidate in question who, when he was a LABOUR activist, “quit the LABOUR party four years ago over Brexit”…but is NOW….checks notes …..the candidate selected for this potential by-election ….to represent the…checks notes AGAIN… LABOUR party…that’s the SAME LABOUR Party that…..checks notes once more……is now just another pro Brexit party…..Confused….well you would be…it is after all…the LABOUR party….who like the Tories LOVE to U turn to win power via mostly those who voted Tory, Brexit party and UKIP and who are STILL ardent Brexit believers in their UK……Heard Farage applauded them , as in the Labour party, as they are MORE Tory than the TORIES in some of the Policies they have adopted….going FURTHER than the Tories on Immigration to note but ONE New New Labour Toryish Labour policy…..we here in Scotland knew that anyway….so old news…to us…..#RedTories
A Rutherglen Councillor said he was “shocked that the top three most popular candidates locally were all blocked” …it has also been noted that so far the candidate in question is being SHIELDED from the media BY the Labour party….Ha Ha…as if the media HERE would give him and the Labour party the same amount of NEGATIVE publicity and HARD TIME that they constantly GIVE to the SNP…….for reasons…that are too obvious to note….but I will…they want to destroy the SNP and thus all support for independence among those as yet STILL undecided….
Plus this Rutherglen stooshie states that SIR Keir Starmer is facing a rebellion in Scotland amid a by-election “rigging row” with activists threatening not to campaign for the party …..why don’t they, the activists, just go one better and just DITCH Starmer’s New New Tory Blairite LABOUR party for good….I mean he and his party are showing them, the activists, WHO they really ARE….so why continue to campaign for, support and vote for them……of course we also have Sarwar’s Labour councillors colluding with the Tories in Scottish councils…is there a pattern here….one that only WE appear to be identifying and calling out…. because the media REFUSE to do so…YEP…..that is the case….vote Labour GET Tory….every bloody time….you will hear it here but NEVER hear or read about in the media…..for reasons …too obvious
No point expecting the BBC in Scotland to promote either of the above stories as they are way way too busy in broadcasting , tweeting and including in their top stories on their website an orchestrated cacophony of #SNPBAD stories…..greedy for them so they are….a hunger that is never sated it seems…..via James ‘Cooks them up’ COOK and Glen Sh*teHawk Campbell …..and t’others who work there and who ONLY represent the BRITISH interests in Scotland…..but never ever represent Scotland’s INTERESTS in their BRITAIN….also known as the UK…as in when they , the Brits, can be bothered to remember NI…..same NI that they forgot about when they, Brits, campaigned for BREXIT…..what Good Friday agreement ?….what Border ?…..Oh Duck…(D can be replaced by an F…or not)…..or rather cared not a Duck about….
Are you angry…cause I am….anger will NEVER end until we get independence.
I have loads more rants to go until then……
Is it a coincedence that this comes out just as the Commissioner is leaving his post?
Had you ever heard of this person? I hadn’t and is it news that this unknown person is leaving his job? Only if you’re the BBC and have an agenda involving a quota of SNP BAD stories to fill on a weekly basis.
Is suggest watching the BBC clip. They are really badly twisting his words, scum that they are. He said that she’d failed, but was not really attacking her as he goes on to say the problems of the pandemic were largely responsible her for throwing a massive spanner in the works. So it was more ‘she was trying, but then alone came covid and it hurt kids, notably vulnerable kids, the most’.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65588466
The BBC made it personal asking if ‘Sturgeon had failed’ in the hope of getting a yes.
They are clearly shitting it that support for indy ‘the morn’ is, at the very, very, very worst, 49.5% and probably in baseline majority now.
He’s either changed his mind, was a coward at the time, or something has happened to make him bitter. He was interviewed end of 2021, just 18 months ago.
https://archive.is/1M9pw
The BBC are really twisting what he said now that I’ve seen the clip.
TBH, from what I see, if I was him, I’d complain.
Indeed most odd given 6 years in post – None of the public noticed, the media had paid no attention until the week before his departure ‘in disgust at lack of progress’ despite the lengthy notice period such posts normally require.
Curiously the story also appears in the Times, published exactly one minute after the broadcast had ended – Shades of last night at the proms… https://archive.ph/syHzf
The BBC is one of the main reasons I don’t self-id as British. They have worked so hard to make me ‘Scottish only’ since I was young lad. I don’t think they understand how much they’ve contributed to the Yes cause. But then how could they? After all, they don’t understand Scottish people because they are not Scottish.
As I mentioned earlier it is a coordinated approach between certain journalists as part of the wider MSM group
Dad, see when I grow up I don’t want to be a journalist !
I haven’t read it and don’t intend to, if you go to some Indy but anti SNP sites you always get this nonsensical drivel. The obvious but never asked question is ‘ compared to who ‘. When you have a government applauded by just about every international body concerned with not only children’s welfare but adults, concerned with the Healh and wellbeing of the people they are elected to serve, the SG and Nicola are normally pretty well up there as a reference to good practice. Compared to who?
When it comes to Nicola Sturgeons role as the First Minster and leader of Scotland’s government for almost the last 9 years we are witnessing history being rewritten in front of our eyes. That’s what is going on.
Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia…
Actually, don’t trust the interweb, it’s of course ‘Eastasia’
“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”
SNP remain a force in Scottish politics for two simple reasons:
1.The major (only) party to realistically vote for if you support independence.
2.The other Westminster parties show little desire to promote interests of Scottish electorate at GE as they are controlled by London central offices. To offer a good deal for Scotland (or Wales) would go down badly with electorate in England spoonfed stories about devolved nations being subsidy junkies.
However to maximise support SNP need a coherent, realistic policy on how to achieve independence. The problem they have is a referendum is the established and best route to achieve this. All other methods are fraught with difficulties in proving majority of Scots support independence which is crucial to ensure Scotland takes its place in international community as a democratic country. To not do this could have severe consequences for success of an independent country and welfare of citizens.
If Westminster fails to agree to a Section 30 request Holyrood needs clear, indisputable evidence of support of majority of Scottish electorate to pursue another route to independence.
I know many here will not like what I have written here but these are the hard realities of where we are. Even though I am an independence supporter I do so primarily because I am think independence will ensure a better future for all Scots. I have real doubts that any declaration of UDI would cause real hardship for the poorer people in Scotland.
This morning: Starmer considering EU citizens living in UK will be allowed to vote in UK elections & 16 and 17 year olds.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-starmer-eu-citizens-vote-brexit-b2338538.html
This evening: Starmer pulls back on voting rights for EU citizens in UK etc.
Does he ever stick with any policy?
Does he ever stick with any policy?
________
The policy of not sticking to any policy, perhaps? 😀
He’s a just crap tory.
A competent Tory would float the idea anonymously via the press to gauge public opinion, so that if it crashes and burns they can ditch it with no-one knowing where it really came from.
An even more competent Tory would know full well that the current English electorate will not welcome the idea of foreigners having influence in their politics, and never have brought it up at all.
If the slave asks the master for freedom the master punishes him for asking so he won’t dare ask again
Independence cannot be achieved by asking for it, that’s agreeing with England that they are the masters
Whatever was signed up to in the dim and distant past I don’t believe Scotland ever signed up to be subservient to a master race
O/T but anyone watching The Diplomat on Netflix set in the current time – good to see Scotland, NI and Wales all getting mentioned as becoming independent in the not too distant future – starts to make it acceptable to the masses.
So, it’s some people’s human rights, against some other people’s human rights and one thing is for damn sure – the court is NOT the place to decide whose human rights are more important, and whose human rights don’t matter a damn.