It has certainly been a torrid week for the SNP with the sudden resignation on Saturday of the party’s Chief Executive Officer Peter Murrell, the husband of out-going party leader Nicola Sturgeon, amidst disagreements about the handling of the party’s leadership election. But the excited claims of sections of the British media that it is all over for the Scottish independence movement are hyperbole born out of wishful thinking. As this blog has pointed out more often than I care to remember, the SNP is not the creator of the widespread desire in Scotland for independence, its dominant position in Scottish politics is a creation of that desire, whatever issues the party faces, the underlying drivers of the wish for an independence will inevitably reassert themselves.
I am not privy to what has been going on within the National Executive Committee, which on Saturday gave Peter Murrell an ultimatum to either give a firm date for standing down from his post or face an immediate vote of no confidence, but it is clear that for some time there has been considerable unhappiness about how the party was being managed, with allegations of control-freakery, secrecy and the rumbling police investigation into the handling of party funds. However looked at from the outside it seems that the last straw for the members of the NEC was the sudden resignation on Friday of the party’s press officer Murray Foote who claimed that he had been given false information about the SNP’s membership figures by senior sources within the party when he issued a statement strongly denying a newspaper report, which turned out to have been accurate, that the SNP had lost over 30,000 members. Peter Murrell has been blamed as the individual who gave the false information to Murray Foote.
Peter Murrell had been the Chief Executive of the SNP since 1999, he presided over the mushroom growth of the SNP from a few thousand members to a party with more members than all other political parties in Scotland combined and he was instrumental in turning the party into a formidable election winning machine, but in recent years it became clear that his management of the SNP was becoming a source of division and dispute. The concentration of power within the party in the hands of a married couple was always going to be problematic and with the departure of Nicola Sturgeon, his position as the party CEO became an issue which the next leader of the party was going to have to tackle sooner or later. Peter Murrell’s resignation means that whoever wins the leadership election will be able to establish a clean break with the Salmond-Sturgeon era and put their own stamp on the party and to signal a new phase in the party and the wider independence movement.
Although there are plenty of supposed independence supporters online whose bitterness leads them to rub their hands with glee at the prospect of the police investigation into the alleged mishandling of party funds resulting in charges being brought, politically this would only benefit the opponents of independence. The only political beneficiaries would be Labour and the Tories. However the resignation of Peter Murrell means that should that unfortunate event come to pass, and it’s important to note that the party strenuously denies any wrong doing, it will be easier for the new party leadership to wash its hands of the entire sorry business and to point to the fact that the SNP is under new management.
I previously said on this blog that I was not going to make a public statement about who my own preferred candidate might be. I’m still not going to. That’s for two reasons, firstly because I do not want to inhibit debate and discussion amongst those who use the comments section of this blog as a discussion forum, but more importantly because one of the declared candidates is going to win at the end of this leadership election and whoever that is all of us who support independence need to put the divisions and disputes behind us and unite behind the new leader whoever that may be. Peter Murrell’s resignation makes it easier for that process of healing and unification to take place. We can hope that the new party leader presides over an organisation which listens more and is more responsive and open to the views of its members and to the wider constituency of independence supporters. Under its new leader the SNP must put an end to the secrecy and top down controlling which has been an unfortunate characteristic of recent years and truly become a party which is owned by and answerable to its grass roots membership.
Despite everything that has happened in recent years the SNP remains a formidable political force and still has many more members than all other political parties in Scotland combined. The underlying factors which have produced the desire for Scottish independence remain very much in play : the corruption and lack of accountability of Westminster, the democratic deficit of the British state, Brexit and the rise of English nationalism, the failure of devolution to protect Scotland from Conservative governments it did not vote for, a weakening British identity and demographic patterns of overwhelming support for independence among younger generations of Scots. All of these remain unaltered by developments internal to the SNP, or even the wider independence movement, and once this current period of turbulence has passed, as it assuredly will no matter how much Scotland’s overwhelmingly anti-independence media tries to keep it going, those underlying systemic factors will reassert themselves.
We are in a new era in Scottish politics. The new leader is going to have the task of rebuilding unity and confidence in the SNP as the leading political vehicle for Scottish independence and drawing a line under the divisions and in-fighting of the past few years. The new leader and the independence movement need to focus on persuading those as yet unconvinced of the need for Scottish independence. The resignation of Peter Murrell increases their chances of doing so well before the big electoral test of the next Westminster General Election.
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Reblogged this on Ramblings of a now 60+ Female.
i appreciate what you are saying about coming together behind the winner but I am sorry Paul, if it is Kate, I just cannot do that.
You don’t have to support any SNP leader. You just need to vote YES to indy at the next available opportunity. I wasn’t a great fan of Salmond but I voted YES in 2014.
I nominate Andrew Bowie to be next leader. He has no future where he is. He will say anything for money. And most importantly he was decorated for valour and gallantry thanks to escaping from Colditz with Dickie Attenborough and Dame Vera Lynn in a Spitfire piloted by Richard Todd.
On second thoughts…
Huge fan for years of your blog Paul, but I disagree with you here. Firstly not naming who you will pick is a weak stance. I say that because we have three candidates all liked and hated in equal measure. The membership is going to take a bit woebegone gets picked (going by s/m). Two candidates are so divisive I fear for the parties plummet to beyond SLabs very lowest point if they are elected. The third is no more than a placeholder, but at the same time the only choice right now. It’s dark days for the party and we need the likes of yourself to put their cards on the table. Same as the commenter above, I cannot get behind KFs and will leave the party and they will lose my vote if she’s elected, I can be part of a pretendy Tory party led by a person with her views.
Did you come on here to audition for the lead-role in Faintheart?
No I came here as someone who won’t put the rights of minorities at risk by voting in or supporting a candidate is so far from appropriate to be a leader she’s stratospheric. If others want to do that that is there right, but he’ll mend them and the party if she wins!
No candidate ‘putting the rights of minorities at risk’ to the best of my knowledge.
Did you read something to the contrary?
Another one with blinkers on that’s taken the stupidity pill!
Oh well … reverting to personal abuse is never a good look.
You have a nice day.
I agree on that. The posts on various sites suggesting a new leader of the SNP is likely to reverse legislation protecting minorities are unrealistic. We do not have a dictatorship mode of government in Holyrood. The SNP may have become over centralised but that looks likely to change to some degree, depending who wins the leadership contest.
And ironically because of STV voting, the opposition parties have higher numbers in Holyrood than they would under FPTP, notwithstanding the almost constant nonsense from them about Scotland being a one party state.
Note the backup…
On a break from 77th or Unable Seaman’s Bowie’s brigade at a guess.
The “Huge fan for years of your blog Paul” is the usual giveaway…
Aint that the truth!
Erm, aye. 🙂
Where’d you get that Skier?
I want one!… 🙂
Credit to whoever made it, but i kept it for use here:
Where you can get a direct link (to embed) to it etc.
Two candidates are so divisive I fear for the parties plummet to beyond SLabs very lowest point if they are elected.
I’m amused to realise I’m not even sure which two you mean
I think Forbes’s belief is that to tackle poverty you have to build up the economy to be able to afford it – and I agree. It’s the same for Indy – strong economy, more confidence by the undecided and soft NOes. A pragmatic and realistic socialist I’d say, rather than a Tory! As far as the minorities are concerned Forbes is most definitely part of one, the wee free has just 15,000 members at most.
Anyways, hope you’re still doing the walking. Don’t worry about the 77th accusations, they do the same to anyone who disagrees with the set script, rather than have a sensible discussion.
Just caught this nonsense as I sip my tea and scroll through yesterday’s batch of pearls of wisdom.
I have never known Paul to take a ‘weak stance’ on any issue, whoever you are.
You are no loss, as you stomp off into the night in high dudgeon, into a Brit Unionist future.
Your post is actually sad…
Humza or the highway?
ALBA are scratching around looking for recruits,, I believe.
It will suit you down to the ground.
Great article Paul although I am not sure what effect the resignation of Peter Murrell will have on the electorate who already support Indy and those who are still swithering about it. Most people don’t know how political parties run at all and certainly don’t what Chief Executives and NEC of Snp do and possibly didn’t even know that Peter Murrell is Nicola’s husband until recently. Part of the reason I joined the Snp on Saturday was too hopefully find out more about what is happening within the party. Police Scotland have been investigating the 600k situation for months when will they announce a decision on whether anything criminal went on. Peter Murrell leaving because of the misinformation re membership numbers will not drastically change the electorates view of the Snp or Indy his wife’s resignation but might and not necessarily in a good way. People don’t like change and NS does have a significant following among the electorate who do not totally support Independence. I am not convinced whichever of the 3 candidates wins will have that support from that part of the electorate easily or soon
These allegations regarding the ‘ missing £600,000’ have been in police hands for yrs not just months, the current wave of outrage was kick started by the media revealing that Police Scotland had now been authorised to start an investigation.
Authorised by whom? And after such a long period, why now? If a crime has been reported is it not the duty of the police to investigate, so who stopped them from doing so?
And didn’t Dominic Raab say the Police didn’t investigate old crimes or something 🤣🤣
There are an awful lot of folk who express the opinion that there’s a wrong kind of independence, as though one particular individual will be in charge or live forever and therefore that kind of independence will be completely wrong
These folk are missing the whole point and definition of the meaning of the word independence
Independence is about the country not a person
But hey! the opponents of independence really don’t work in mysterious ways, they are if nothing else predictable
Since I joined the SNP more than most folk have been alive ago I’ve seen this over and over again with the opposition to independence
There have always been those if they could not control a thing they will destroy a thing, and then there is the opposition who don’t hide themselves, sometimes I prefer them, at least they hate honestly and you can see who you’re dealing with
I think you are right to keep your preference to yourself for the duration of the voting period. As you say, we will all have to support the leader voted for by the majority of the members. That’s democracy. If anyone can’t do that then they have the option of resigning and finding a party whose leader they can live with.
It may be difficult but you should maintain your silence on your candidate preference indefinitely.
Give no succour to the enemy.
They cannot then accuse you of saying this because your favourite won, or your favourite lost.
I pretty much agree with the above. I have no intention of picking my ball up and refusing to play if my preferred candidate does not win. Ultimately we need to ensure party democracy prevails.
I have backed Forbes because I believe of the three she will steer the steadiest course to continued success. That isn’t to say I agree with all her positions on every issue but for me she ticks the most boxes. I accept and appreciate that for other members the other two candidates may tick the most boxes for them and if Humza or Ash win then I will give them my support.
Yes, wheels have come off but perhaps this is the time for an overhaul of the steering and brakes while we have the wheels off and put something even better back on the road.
One thing is for sure, if we fall on each others necks the only winners will be the unionists.
To those throwing toys out of pram if their preferred candidate is not elected and then no longer voting SNP.
The cut yer nose off to spite yer face, springs to mind, you are doing the yoons work for them, im of the belief give someone new a decent time to prove themselves.
Only the SNP can deliver independence, no other party currenty comes close.
And we would be in wilderness for at least a decade if we did not have the SNP.
Personally I believe you should keep your thought to yourself you are after all an independent independence blogger not an SNP blogger.
As for the current bourach as Mike Russell calls it I reckon most members will see it as a storm in a teacup and keep their eye on the prize. I hope whoever wins does make an effort to unite the party and I will support them even if I didn’t vote for them because that is democracy at the end of the day.
To those saying they’ll leave the party if one or another candidates wins, that is your right. I don’t see why people should be forced to stay a member of a party whose leader they can not support.
But others will join because of that new leader, and no party should totally change its direction or leadership for the sake of a few outgoing members.
But for this from the article:
“ The new leader is going to have the task of rebuilding unity and confidence in the SNP as the leading political vehicle for Scottish independence and drawing a line under the divisions and in-fighting of the past few years.”
I mostly disagree. Yes for the “confidence in the SNP”, but No for the rebuilding unity and drawing a line under divisions and in-fighting. THAT is for the party and those members to do, not the leader.
And if there are some can’t in all fairness live with the problem, resign and move on. Others will fill those places. It is not for the Leader of the party, and especially the First Minister, to hold the hands of those who put personal grievances and grudges before party.
Thank you, Paul, for so eloquently saying, what has to be said. For many, such as myself, restoring Scotland’s Independence is first and foremost in my mind. The good governance of Scotland, naturally, follows closely upon that.
Being well aware of the many forces lined up against us in achieving that lifelong aim … not just within the Unionist camps and MSM, but those who hide behind many guises, often declaring themselves in the Indy camp … necessitates constant vigilance.
“Divide and conquer” tactics, prevalent since the Seventies, are, sadly, there for all to see and more vociferous than ever. Malign forces at work.
I remember when John Swinney was ousted as Party leader in 2004 I was at the conference in Stirling when Winnie Ewing stood up and said that ‘this’ is a crucifixion of a good man’ The newspapers were full of gleeful SNP in crisis stories. I definitely have a feeling of dejavu
Can you remind me why this happened?
Sorry for delay. It was after the election when our vote plummeted. Some briefing against Swinney angsty conference.
The more popular and successful a party is, the more unpopular that party is with the loudest shouters, and boy have we attracted those
The UK government, their media, and every other political party in the British Isles
It’s a lot to battle against
The UK government, their media, and every other political party in the British Isles
You forget Plaid Cymru and Mebyon Kernow, at the very least. We are brothers and sisters – that’s why I belong to 2 of these Parties.
Apologies WS, I forgot about you guys
Now would you like to take my place?
This just in in my Spam email folder:
INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPT
Calle del Conde de Pe�alver, 38, 6E, 28006
REF NO: 6656981735
We are pleased to inform you of the result of the Euro-million Lottery Winners International programs held on the 19th of March 2023. Your e-mail address attached to ticket number 468914656588-5410 with serial number 2569-510,batch number 212962566,lottery ref number 6656981735 and drew lucky numbers 9-60-11-23-52-45 which consequently won in the 1st category, you have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay out of �1,000,000.00 (One Million Euros)
I’m not going stick around with you oiks for that much longer!
You’re not joking … are you?
I’ve actually receive two of these now. Do I get 2 million Euros?
But first things first. Independence for my two favourite countries.
And that isn’t a joke!
Well said, let’s get the band back together..
What I’ve found astounding over the last wee while are accusations flying over candidates, conspiracy theories leaking out of every pore, and quite fascinating examples of the pitchforks and torches game being played with neither the pitchforks nor torches being aware of their chains being yanked by both HMG and HMS James Cook, so lets recap.
Capella helpfully in the previous thread copied a rolling list of SNP member numbers compiled by a “Leon Skum”, to which I’ve pasted additions for the “disappeared” 2022 and “BBC” March figures, number differences to the previous year and % + or -, but skipped April 2018 as the outlier, but would equally draw attention to the outlier of March 2023, included only to prove the point :
18th September 2014 – 25,642, 0, 0
31st December 2014 – 93,045, +67,403, +262%
31st December 2015 – 115,102, +22,057, +23%
31st December 2016 – 118,959, +3.4%
16th April 2018 – 118,162
31st December 2018 – 125,534, +6,595,+5.5%
31st December 2019 – 125,691, +157, +8%
31st December 2020 – 105,393, -20,298, -16%
31st December 2021 – 103,884, -1,509, -1.4%
December 2022 – 85,000, -18,884, -18%
March 2023 – 72,000, -13,000, -15%
Does anyone remember Cameron on the morning after the Indy prioritising EVEL ?
Does anybody remember Austerity ?
Does anyone remember Covid ?
Does anyone remember the worst cost of living (and energy) crisis in the UK in more than a “generation” ?
Let’s resolve to no longer have our chains yanked by HMS James Cook, the spin-monkeys in the Scotland Office, and “others” – Indy support grows because of these scams and in spite of them.
Good post Bob.
I firmly believe that majority of Scots (>66%) will support independence if they are convinced the country will be fairer and more prosperous than it is as part of UK.
To achieve this and negate the UK establishments hostility to independence 3 things are essential.
1.A pro-independence government in Holyrood governing in a manner that improves life and prospects for majority of electorate thus demonstrating the benefits of self governance. This will be primary responsibility of whoever succeeds NS.
2.A strong pro-independence party at Westminster putting Scottish electorates interests first an centre and highlighting the negatives of Westminster rule to Scotland. It matters little what electorate outside Scotland think of SNP at Westminster and I do think Stephen Flynn is showing signs of the type of leadership required at Westminster.
3.A broad alliance of pro-independence groups working together to campaign to advance cause of independence, agree route to independence and outline the basics of a self governing Scottish democracy. This requires the SNP and Alba to get over themselves and work collegiately with all other pro- Indy groups.
Points 1 & 2 need a strong pro-independence party which despite shambles of last few weeks still has to be SNP as no alternatives have had any traction with electorate.
Point 3 requires SNP to reach out and work with other Independence groups on a concensual basis.
Underpinning all of the above is the need to reach out to the 20-30% of Scottish electorate who could be persuaded to support independence but as yet remain to be convinced.
If the SNP could possibly govern so well as to produce anything close to being much better than Scotland is at the moment every other opposition and their media would accuse them of hiding the fact that they could have done this for years and they were lying all the time to *break up* the most successful blah blah blah
When the tiny country of Estonia achieved their independence they had nothing, their history of invasions left them with war ravaged infrastructure and instability, but now they are one of the most successful small countries in the world because they worked at it
Independence is about self determination freedom of choice and quality of life, if you happen to become wealthier in the process like the Estonians then all the better
The so called union of England dictatorship offers none of these things, they only ever offer the promise of those things if we vote for them, but our votes proved to be impotent as Scotland can make no difference to the decisions of the voters of England who outnumber Scots by ten to one, so they always get what they vote for every single time leaving Scotland Wales and the North of Ireland with no choice but England’s choice
That’s not a description of a union anyone would want to join and why Scotland Wales and the North of Ireland is in Hotel California, we can say we’re checking out but we can never leave
The mistake is asking for what we cannot take, or are not prepared to
At least Estonia didnt have one of its arms tied behind its back when it became independent as Scotland does at present.
How can we realistically expect Scotland’s economy to prosper without a full fiscal transfer?
To all those unionists ( some clothed as Indy supporters ) – the priority for most of us is INDEPENDENCE not the SNP leadership contest .
And to put the current SNP stushie into context –
The Tories have been having a meltdown since 2019 , led first by a congenital liar who makes Trump look like Mother Theresa , then by a woman who couldn’t outlast a lettuce , and now a wee schoolboy masquerading as a grownup who is about to be ditched by his party and replaced ( they hope ) by the aforementioned congenital liar !
Not forgetting that the present Cabinet would make them second favourites in an intellectual contest with the cast of The Young Ones !
Meanwhile Labour is currently led by the most boring man in the UK , a man who endorsed and backed to the hilt former leader Corbyn and his manifesto , then trashed his reputation , exiled him from the Party , made 10 Pledges in his own blood to win the leadership against a variety of Cardboard cutouts , then promptly binned them as soon as elected and lied about doing so , then proceeded in purging his Party of anyone remotely able to spell SOCIALIST without the aid of a Thesaurus .
In Scotland, getting the current millionaire , privately educated Scottish Labour leader ( sic ) to show any understanding of what a Labour Party is supposed to stand for is like drawing teeth – appropriately !
Meanwhile the Tories in Scotland have at least managed to combine in one , a description of their policies and their leader – DRoss !
So , a wee stushie among the SNP candidates is one thing but they are amateurs in the face of Westminster-level corruption , ignorance , ineptitude , hypocrisy …. Roll on Independence !
OT. A comment from elsewhere:
“Rishi [Sunak] is so rich he never wears the same suit twice.”
Actually he’s so rich he never wears the same suit once.
Actual non-ferry membership number squirrel news of some relevance to voters.
Nursing union accepts Scottish government pay offer
Members of the Royal College of Nursing have voted to accept a new pay offer from the Scottish government.
I see Ash ‘Hanging Chads’ Regan wants a rerun.
When the dust settles, she’ll cross over to Alba…The lady is quite a piece of business.
If you wanted to give the British nats a field day for questioning whether the results ‘really reflected the will of members’, this would be ideal for the purpose.
‘What about those that didn’t realise they could re-vote? Has to be all run again!’ etc etc.
I will say no more.
This is all coming from elsewhere, if you can’t control a thing then destroy a thing
In 2004 something very similar to this was played out in a move by you know who to take over the party
His bonnets and him won’t stop until he’s broken the party that’s rejected him
The members aren’t daft, they know who’s behind Ash Regan and writing her scripts
She and he won’t win and Jack’s right, the minute she loses she’ll announce her defection to the dark side
I’m glad I’m not FM I’d have withdrawn the whip from her today and she’d have been out of the party for what this cabal is trying to do
Totally agree and they are welcome to have her for keeps.
In terms of picking candidates, I, as noted, have found myself largely neutral, which was actually nice.
I think those pushing their preferred candidate can end up doing more harm than good. Once people do that, they tend to become defensive and before they know it, they are attacking other candidates, parroting unionists, and so doing themselves and their own preference harm.
I really don’t know what the outcome will be, but what straws in the wind we have suggest it will be quite close. I’ll be happily giving whoever wins a chance to prove themself and that they can lead for all in what is a broad church. It’s what they’ll need to do if their time as leader is not to be rather short as I’ve said before. That and if they want to be the one that led Scotland to independence.
As for talk of splits which unionists dream of. An SNP split is unlikely, but such a thing would be a disaster for the union. We are not FPTP in our national parliament, so more Yes parties would just mean more Yes MSPs if they can top the 5% in a region threshold. The Greens are a fine example.
In some ways a more leftie SNP in an addition to a more rightie SNP would indicate Scotland moving to indy. The development of the greens as a force is an example of this. As yes grows to majority+, so the church cannot accommodate all, and new Yes parties appear to either side of it.
In the end, I personally don’t see the independence as coming from the SNP. It will come from the people because they now desire it. For me, as I’ve said many times, the SNP / Greens and recently Alba are the products of a growing support for indy, not the source of it.
” There will be NO vote-editing in the Leadership election as requested by Ash Regan.”
…. SNP H.Q.
I suspect if this was implemented, votes for Regan would be rapidly withdrawn as a result.
Well thats possible.
Personally,I think it more likely she would benefit as being ‘the motivator’ of a vote edit.Having heard the reasons why a vote-edit is not on offer (open to hacking being one reason given) I think its probably for the best though no doubt will be contested by those offering evidence of invitations to vote being offered to those no longer members.
Anyways…I’m sticking with my vote for Kate and have no doubt she will prove to be a leader for ALL of us should she win.
I voted Ash/Kate early on. I would still stick with that if allowed to alter.
Ash has grown in presence for me since then and been the most consistent policywise.
Somewhat paradoxically, I’m not sure I would want her to win this leadership election because, if the rumoured shtistorm that is about to hit the party is true, whoever wins it might well be fatally flawed. Perhaps better if she were left out of it but standing in the wing
What rumoured shitstorm?
No. 378 I believe.
377 was a couple of days back.
lol … I’ve lost count too.
Onwards & upwards.
Hope you enjoyed your brief visit to the site, Chicmac.
Running the vote again would seem a waste of time to me. Regardless of who said what regarding membership numbers it doesn’t make any difference to the hustings and debates and the way people cast their votes.
The idea of being able to change your vote before counting day isn’t without some merit, be it a leadership election or a postal vote for a General Election (a lot can happen in a campaign after the postal vote has been fired in). However, the administration and audit of that would likely make it infeasible to implement. I voted last Monday and I have no desire to change my vote. I can’t speak for anyone else.
On the second suggestion, of another election address to all members from the candidates, I have no issue with. It obviously won’t make any difference to those who have voted but it may encourage those dallying or not intending to vote.
Regardless of who said what regarding membership numbers it doesn’t make any difference to the hustings and debates and the way people cast their votes.
Aye, could not agree more.
Congratulations Paul,the level of analysis and synthesis in this article is first class.This is one of your best,and I agree with your conclusions.
OT after wife watching Loose Women, deliberately.
One of mine got their baby box and we got to see it on MD, and it’s brilliant what they get in it. Even including a couple of wee surprise packets 🙂
Sturgeon’s’ right in picking that as one of the things she’d like to be remembered for, that and the memorial book. Babies and kids are our future. The doddering Precious Union is our past.
On the money there YIR2 … 🙂
I hope KF wins and that she appoints AR as her deputy. I knew very little about Ash before this election but she impressed me during an hour long interview with McKenna , eg, she correctly questioned the validity of “GERS” .
She’s on the front foot when it comes to independence ,which is a breath of fresh air, compared to many SNP reps who are much more interested in the interests of vociferous minorities.
I want Ash Regan nowhere near Deputy level.
For someone to be convinced of her competence by Kevin McKenna…oh my goodness.
Can only be Kate.
McKenna didn’t convince me, Regan did.
I also want Forbes to win but there are too many devolutionists in the SNP and more than a few who are overly comfortable in Westminster.
McKenna didn’t convince me, Regan did.
I also want Forbes to win but there are too many devolutionists in the SNP and more than a few who are overly comfortable in Westminster.
I heard you the first time Calum 🙂
Alex Salmond caught out lying,,,,, again! as he claims he has spoken to all three candidates recently, but it turns out one of them hasn’t spoken to him in years and the other one basically replied WHO?
So that only leaves one candidate, and well we all kinda know who that is don’t we
The BBCs nine had a shifty side glancing former ex member advisor who has only just rejoined so he could be involved in the attempted destruction of my party
All these people are only making the job easier for the SNP to find out who and where they are so we can get round to rejecting the lot of them soon enough
Jim… mibees time tae douse yer gab?
No offence intended.
Of course there was offence intended, it always is
….it will be easier for the new party leadership to wash its hands of the entire sorry business and to point to the fact that the SNP is under new management
“But will that ring true if the continuity candidate” wins?
If that is who the membership votes for, then the non snp will need to suck it up or support the Brit nats once more. It’s how elections work.
You miss the point.
Will “continuity” represent “new management”? Or same old, same old?
Probably “no change”.
Are you exiled from btl on the Scotsman? It really became a sewer after the ref.
You may have spotted me there regularly a few years ago – when I turned my hand at satire. These days I am a very occasional visitor indeed and absolutely agree with you on itsquality
In a few short weeks, pro independence supporters of Hanging Chad(q.v., The Bush Gore rammy in Florida 2000, younger Duggers) Ash Regan will gather at Holyrood and invade the seat of our democracy like a mad raging stampede of frightened ungulates.
They will occupy MSPs’ offices, and take selfies of each other in the Speaker’s chair.
They’ll stop short of defecating on the floor of the House, but there will be a scattering of documents on the floor of the lobby, and overwhelmed security guards and police will be pressed back as the mob, estimated to be in the region of between 10 and 15 left wing socialists and republicans (Now!) run amok.
What nonsense is this?
As Regan channels her Trump?
Ash Regan should never be in charge of anything, never mind the governing party.
She will declare herself an Independent as soon as the leadership winner is announced, and appoint Alec Salmond as her SPAD, and McAlpine as her PPS?
That’ll get sad Auld Alec his security pass, so that he can wander about Holyrood, sort of ‘officially’ again, available for interviews with Glenn, and Gary, and a range of BBC SKY and STV pundits.
I note that the Republicans are getting big licks in the National today.
So much for convincing No voters to YES.
Unless it is a Republic Common Weal workers own the means of production vegan Trans Green world from day One of Independence, the fringe nuts are no’ playing.
These idiots are the Fifth Column, who have no interest in an Independent Scotland…and this is why they hate the prospect of a Forbes mixed economy Scotland vision.
In other news, Jeffrey Donaldson and the DUP have rejected Sunak’s ‘best of both worlds’ Windsor deal, and MPU legislation has seen alcohol related deaths in Scotland fall by 159%.
Try hard as you might, these enormously important pieces of news are buried in the Jock Blahs…
I wouldn’t trust Regan to run a bath.
Surely the Bath runs her? 🛁
In my world, the real world, where we made things, implemented social civil policies and put in place mechanisms on health, law, local government, finance, and other stuff essential to a modern society, she wouldn’t have made it past the paper sift of applicants, never mind an interview.
Now she wants 3 months of ‘interviews’?
There shall be a Reckoning.
Re Northern Ireland. Donaldson talks about the democratic deficit.
He now wants NI right to dictate laws to impact on Scotland.
Didn’t the DUP get beat in the last election?
Poisonous is the politics of the right wing. They talk of GB because they go into convulsions if they said Scotland or Wales.
The new FM should focus on the deficit of democratic process in Scotland.
The ‘Romanists’ (I. Paisley Sen) are outbreeding them, Hamish.
The GFA has an inbuilt Reunification option.
The DUP need to force Direct Rule on ‘The Provence’ before 2024.
Never mind, Ian Paisley JNR will still have the best of both worlds. He’s got and Irish passport.
Maybe we should have a rally at Cairnryan near the ferry port.
Saying “ democratic deficit? “ try Scotland or, where’s our bridge? Eu welcomed!
Short and to the point
The Declaration of Calton Hill: A independent Scottish republic
Full story here:
I don’t even need to read this, Capella.
The headline was enough.
It wasn’t the SNP wot nearly won it, it was the mass grass roots movement, predominant among whom were republicans and the Common Weal, I suspect.
So, any ‘Royalists’metaphorically spits as I utter their name?) and laissez faire capitalists, and Tory ‘scum’, are excluded from the Rainbow alliance?
They divide to fail, which suits the Brit Jocks.
Many of the leaders of these splinter groups are on their own personall ego trips…and the money, of course.
beats working for a living, like the rest of us.
This sort of republican claptrap normally eminates from those who don’t understand the difference between the Scottish and English crowns and unfortunately, if they aren’t actually unionists working for the union, play into the hands of the unionists.
Maybe, but it’s always worth bearing in mind that SNP conference voted for a referendum on the monarchy before Salmond quietly ditched it unilaterally. A reminder to his fans that the SNP wasn’t exactly a decentralised festival of democracy in his day either (not that Sturgeon revived the policy).
AFAIK all three leadership candidates have agreed to attend the May 6th march. I’ll be interested to see what the turnout is.
Correction – the three candidates will be attending the AUOB march in Glasgow on 6th May. That’s separate from the Calton Hill protest I should make clear.
Those who cannot control a thing always set out to destroy that thing, in this case the SNP
Ash Regan’s so called representative only just rejoined the SNP to help Regan’s bid for leader of the party, can the members retrospectively decide he’s unsuitable material to be a member of the party and vote him out? no they can’t
Ash Regan resigned from the cabinet on what she says was a point of principle rather than vote against the proposition put before her, because if she had done that the whip would have been withdrawn and she would have been an independent with no ability to present herself as a candidate for the position of FM, so she wanted to stay in the party but resigned publicly because who ever heard of Ash Regan before that? when questioned even her constituents didn’t know who she was
Most people vote in elections for the leader and face of a party not the local whoever
I very much doubt there are many members of the SNP who don’t know what Ash Regan and her cohort of supporters are up to
No matter whether any system is changed reworked re-voted upon this is not the end purpose of the Ash Regan camp, the purpose is to destroy that which they cannot control, and now I’m going to annoy all the Alba supporters by pointing out once again my opinion that Alex Salmond is pulling every string he can not for Ash Regan to win, she never had a chance of winning from the start and she admitted that, remember she said that, so no he doesn’t care about that, he cares about Alex Salmond winning by destroying that which rejected him leading all the way back to Nicola Sturgeon who in his twisted vengeance is solely responsible for his downfall and not himself just because she refused to help get him out of a jam in his time of need
Bring the party into disrepute is the endgame here, not Ash Regan being FM, that was never going to happen anyway
I will still vote for the SNP if Ash wins but I have no doubt she will be a divisive figure and they’re more likely to shed even more members. Future doesn’t look good with her at the helm, she is like marmite and I can’t stand it
If Ash Regan wins the SNP will morph into Alba.
There is more chance of Greenock Morton signing Messi, than Regan triumphing. (Don’t get too excited, Tam The Bam. It’s not going to happen, honest.)
I doubt that she would come in third in an Ash Regan lookalike contest.
This woman publicly declared on LBC that she would set up an unelected Committee to make the big decisions, instead of the elected MSPs.
So we voted for nothing. Alex Salmond Robin McAlpine, Tommy Sheridan, and who knows? Henry McLeish will decide our fate by committee.
What do you get when you form a committee to design a horse? A camel.
They must have been laughing their heads off in the post debate Brit Green Room at that one.
Oh I dont know Jack….stranger things have hap…………
Nah …. they dont. 😦
You are old..mature enough, Tam, to remember the pre–internet rumour that Cruyff was going to sign for Dumbarton?
Didn’t happen either, although Hibs got Best for a few months.
Davie Cooper actually did play for the Paper Hankies, though, but, mind.
We got a new all seater (well, wooden benches) stand when he moved to the Teddy Bears.
He was never the same player after that.
Bet you didn’t know Stanley Matthews used to play for Morton .
And there’s a guy down the chip shop swears he’s Elvis, Tam.
Its a fact Jack..both Matthews and Tommy Lawton played for Morton during the war years.Check it out.
Sadly, I cannot disagree
Who benefits from making the public believe all politicians are the same and no good liars the lot of them?
Who would be most interested in putting the electorate off voting?
One thing’s for sure all of this proves the SNP is definitely NOT a cult or there wouldn’t be so many arguments about voting or not voting for a candidate that admitted she had virtually no chance of winning at the beginning of this process because she was little known and had no high profile within the party, let alone the public
She now has such a profile that even she must know completely excludes her from winning any election now
So who benefits?
Jeremy Corbyn who the vast majority of members wanted and who attracted more members to his party than any other Labour leader in their history and looked set to sweep the boards in England, then some within that party became so terrified of his popularity they worked harder to destroy him than the Tories did, so who benefitted?
We don’t need Paul Daniels to spot sleight of hand here
Ash Regan resigned from the cabinet on what she says was a point of principle rather than vote against the proposition put before her, because if she had done that the whip would have been withdrawn and she would have been an independent with no ability to present herself as a candidate for the position of FM
Whit? She *did* vote against the bill, as did a few backbenchers, and none of them had the whip withdrawn
Minimum pricing averts alcohol deaths, study claims
This has led to the study’s best estimate that, between May 2018 and December 2020, there was a “significant” 13.4% reduction in the types of deaths caused by heavy drinking in Scotland.
Personally, I think the Scottish government have a very good record considering their hands tied behind the back circumstances, and remain optimistic that either of the front running continuity candidates (Forbes/Yousaf) can continue with that.
In terms of folk backing a particular one, all I can reiterate is that as someone who’s found themselves broadly neutral, you will harm yourself and your candidate if you are negative towards others and their supporters / the SNP (which includes me and 72k others, e.g. isn’t Pete M or any single person :-)). People are repelled by negativity, especially when it is directed at folks who are on the same side, rather than the real source of the problem, i.e. Westminster rule. Positivity is what wins out.
I have lost patience a bit here at times. To those I’ve spared with – sorry it’s only because it frustrates me when I see people starting to do the bidding of British nationalists, even if somewhat inadvertently. The do everything to encourage Yessers to get into internal rammies.
Anyway, not long to go now! Will be glad when we can get back to important business.
So the drinks companies and those who delayed the implementation such as the tories have potential alcohol deaths and general misery on their hands?
Didn’t one opponent aid Johnson and the brexiters?
I don’t hear or see Diageo screaming blue murder at Moray MP Douglas Ross’ hiking the tax on whisky by 10.1%, sucking £600 million out of the industry and straight in to London’s coffers, do you?
I wonder why?
There will be ‘savings and efficiencies’ in the whisky trade to make up the loss, no doubt.
Redundancies and ‘work rounds’, lower standards, and poorer quality output, to feed our English colonial masters coffers.
No sign of outrage in the Herald or the Scotsman, and their 22,000 readership, either.
£600 million! You could build two ferry fiasco ships for that.
I watched Iain Dale’s LBC, or was it renamed LBQT+ for the event, SNP Leadership ‘debate’.
When I see Iain Dale these days I immediately recall his physical assault on a pensioner on Brighton seafront, captured ‘live’, as Dale tried to prevent the poor man’s anti nuclear protest while one of Dale’s literary stable was being interviewed.
He is of course an arch Tory, who has been a failed hopeful Tory candidate a few times.
Yet again, Kate Forbes was getting it in the neck because of her religious beliefs.
It’s all about LBGT+, you see.
Smother the Independence debate any way you can.
Nobody would dare challenge the noble cause of gay rights, surely?
I am feckin’ fed up of this nonsense.
Dale felt obliged to tell us all that he was gay, and married, as if that gave him the moral high ground to badger this intelligent young women on her faith.
Why didn’t she resign like Ash, Dale’s favourite on the night, because he knows that she would be a disaster for the SNP and Independence, because the GRR brouhaha was the single most important issue in Scotland, , and according to Dale, Kate Forbes thinks him a sinner, because he prefers men.
Forbes was dignity and coolness personified in her response to this pensioner beating man’s vile religious persecution .(He was officially cautioned by Surrey Police for the assault, btw.) Look up the whole sorry incident on Youtube, Duggers.
Forbes pointed out that she had just given birth, and was on maternity leave…and that in her eyes we were all equal, and sinners on some level.
Dale couldn’t give a fuck about women’s rights, when there was a Brit religious persecution point to be made.
She refused to be harrassed by this Arch Tory Brexiter.
Well, done ,Kate.
I am sick fed up of this GRR nonsense.
We’ll have learned from this.
Now that The Vow Foote is gone, perhaps we can enlist a Media Rottweiler to snarl at the heels of the Fourth Estate Fifth Column.
No more Mr., Mrs., or Miss Nice Guy.
This is doing untold damage to LGBT+ Scottish citizens.
Excellent response, Jack.
[…] Source […]
Quote of the day:
…” like a mad raging stampede of frightened ungulates.”
lol… belter Jack.
I see according to the Telegraph front page headline “SNP in revote chaos” we are once again utter turmoil and dismay.
Of course one candidate suggested that people should be able to revote and no one else has. So no revote and where then the chaos? You would expect such pathetic dishonesty from propaganda rags like the Mail and Express but the Telegraph once aspired to be a serious broadsheet.
There is a war…but it is not civil. It isn’t internal to the SNP either. This is a war by the opposition desperate to dislodge the SNP from power and they are aided and abetted by the media.
I think they are going to fail in their attempt…but they will spin and lie and become ever more desperate. If Kate wins stand by for even the wingnuts on the Express saying she is too Christian and not woke enough and if Humza wins let’s brace ourselves for oodles of thinly veiled racism. I will be surprised if Ash wins and I suspect so will the press. They probably haven’t prepared for that eventuality.
I have to laugh at those who keep banging on about not caring about religion but they don’t like Kate Forbes religion in case she forces it upon them
These same people make no complaints about Humza Yousaf’s religion that effectively contains much the same views as Kate Forbes personal beliefs, as do most religions
No FM whoever is elected is or can force their own religions or personal way of life on anyone in a democracy, so are these folk really saying that the next FM can change the religious democracy of an entire country? they can’t possibly be suggesting such a thing, so why are they doing this in Kate Forbes case and not Humza’s, and I think it maybe just boils down to the fear of sounding racist against Humza because he’s not white
Both of these candidates are heterosexual married people with children, both practice their own religions, neither of them has ever said they would attempt to change society by banning those who are not the same as them, and both have said their job as parliamentarians is to uphold and defend the law of the land in all circumstances
No religious person on the planet is going to agree with another persons way of life for themselves, and no non religious person is going to change their way of life if they don’t want to either
I don’t like blue cars, wouldn’t buy one, but I don’t care if other folk like them and I wouldn’t go around kicking the doors in, because I’m anti blue cars, I just don’t like them
They’re not my taste, in the same way as I’m not gay or religious it’s not my personal taste, so why are folk who keep professing how liberal they are getting so annoyed at someone else’s personal choices
I don’t like Semolina Sago or Tripe either, Ooh! can’t stand Tripe, but Tripe eaters will say it’s lovely, taste, nothing more, just taste
Good response, Dr Jim, with which I fully agree.
I’ve got a blue boberattler, Dr Jim. It doesn’t make me a bad person. And I loved semolina , the highlight of school dinners.
it is instructive, is it not, that only one campaign is talking about the prospects of losing? maybe their internal polling is telling them something
Yes, just saw John Nicolson trashing Kate Forbes views as religious fundamentalism. Free Kirk are akin to ISIS or is it daesh?
Not a word over Islam nor Roman Catholicism which I believe both of the other Candidates are.
No doubt they have views which may not tune with Nicholson though.
Isn’t the Free Kirk a minority?
I do think his “non-religious fundamentalism” can also stretch a point too far. Anything goes?
Still he won’t resign from the snp.
Before he came an MP he toured Lanarkshire, Dunbartonshire , Ayrshire and others to become a candidate saying he really wanted to represent the locals.
Some of us thought he just wanted selected- anywhere. Many politicians are very similar.
Still he is quite good at putting his point of view over even if I disagree at times.
Even Paul must have got an ‘ouch’ when Nicolson declared that the SNP was ‘the gayest party’ in Westminster.
As I say, Hamish, I have had it on this nonsense.
The scottish media have tried to crucify (deliberate) Kate Forbes over the past 4 weeks.
She gets my vote, and you can’t get any more irreligious than I, I think you’ll all agree.
I fed up to the back teeth of GRR.
“…Nicolson declared that the SNP was ‘the gayest party’ in Westminster…”
Where does that sit alongside the aspiration to have our elected representatives mirror the composition of the electorate?
50% of it is female. Is 25-39% gay?
Where do you sit ? Ipswich ?
Then perhaps NOT IN SCOTLAND makes it clearer for you ?
Cant say I’ve ever been to Toocryptic … is it in Greece?
A bit further norf…
If Forbes wins, all that I would expect to happen at most is that the SNP lose some voters to the Greens. It’s not going to impact indy support nor overall support for Yes parties.
Recent slightly lower SNP numbers do seem to be due to this happening rather than any movement to pro-UK parties.
Most indy supporters just won’t vote for unionist parties and there’s nothing unionists can do about this.
Even the SNP splitting in two would not affect this; unionist would likely lose future elections in an even bigger way if this happened, at least for Holyrood, which is the only parliament that represents us.
I campaigned with John Nicolson knowing perfectly well his beliefs and way of life which didn’t bother me, so who are the bigots here? they can’t have me supporting them for them to then dislike my personal taste when it suits them, I was campaigning for the party led by Nicola Sturgeon, I think some MPs forget that we didn’t vote for them personally, we voted for the proposition of independence that they represent, now they’re holding someone else’s personal taste against them
Lots of double standards here from the I don’t like preference unless it’s my preference squad
I don’t care what creed colour race or religion anybody is if they’re on the side of Scotland, it seems the so called liberal thinkers really aren’t so liberal after all
John Nicholson lived in Bearsden for years before he was elected for East Dunbartonshire the constituency Bearsden is in. To give him credit he is the only candidate to darken my door. He has a tendancy to shoot his mouth off but of course he will defend the gay community as he is part of it. As I have said here before I belief that it was exceedingly niave for Kate to say she would not vote for equal marriage etc if she had been an Msp when legislation for that was discussed.She managed to alient minority groups by what she said then so understandably a lot of them are not supporting her. I would not support any of the three candidates if I had a vote and my brother who has a vote has decided not to vote at all. I am a long time member of the Church of Scotland another branch of same faith as Kate. I would not join her church as for me it is too totalitarian in its doctrine. Wee Free Church fought for a long time to stop ferries to the Western Isles on a Sunday and I don’t like they don’t have Women Ministers these are two reasons why that church would never appeal to me Like the COS it is losing a massive amount of members for various reasons. Most people in Scotland don’t believe in any religion and sadly will have been frightened by what she said. She is entitled to her views on how her faith would effect how she votes or supports legislation and I will always defend her right to have them but others will not vote for because of them. That is the way of things and it is democracy
The vote on equal marriage in 2014 was I believe a free vote and several SNP MSPs, including a couple of Gov Ministers, did not vote for it. Therefore KF would not have been alone if she had been an MSP at that point. But what is also important to remember is that she also said that now it is the law she would defend it because that is democracy. There were several of her answers on various topics eg children ot of wedlock that, as with equal marriage, were subject to partial reporting. Unfortunately some people fired off on the partial answers rather than consider her answers in their entirety.
For the record I do not have a vote in this contest.
And for the record, neither Ciaran Jenkins nor any of his predecessors posed a single ‘hypothetical’ let alone a “real” question to any of those who had opposed the Bill in Holyrood in 2014.
ONLY Forbes in 2023 during a SNP leadership contest….
Everyone who criticises Kate because of her Christianity is a coward. They wouldn’t dare if she was a Muslim.
I have had no contact with any of the candidates but I have a Muslim friend and have great discussions with her about the Muslim faith including thing I don’t like about that faith and she will tell me where I am wrong and also tells me the things she doesn’t like about her faith. Ciaran Jenkins set a trap for Kate and by her overt honesty she walked right into it. I am a Christian but I don’t hold same views as Kate re equal marriage. Those who are not Christian can criticise us they have a right to free speech. I don’t support any of the candidates my reasons for not supporting Kate are primarily she sounds a wee bit technocratic and lacking in experience to me and I don’t have a vote anyway .I think the other two candidates should have been questioned more on how their religious views or lack thereof would effect policy etc but Unionist journalists always pick on the biggest threat to the Union
From Msm monitor.
Good article on what looks awfy like an attempt to deligitimise the leadership election, bbc front and and centre of course.
View at Medium.com
This lad will be a shoo in for a job in BBC Kirkland.
Ash Regan is an AlBA plant?
Shocking, if true.
Well if Humza Yousaf becomes leader I’ll resign from the SNP and I’m not even a member.
Take that you blue tripe and drisheen.
I imagine you wouldn’t be missed. Literally. 🙂
In the long battle for LGBT rights it was not the politicians or the marches or the demonstrations that made the decision that a group of people should have the same rights as everyone else, it was the rest of society who voted for the politicians who would enable those rights, and we’re still doing it
Kate Forbes and me and millions of others may not choose to live our lives in this way but we defend those rights as we would hope those groups would defend our rights to live our way
To not promote a thing is not to demote a thing, equality in existence is for everyone and every persuasion, people can be both good bad and everything in between
Life is equality of acceptance, not necessarily approval, or we’d all be drones waiting to be told our opinions and preferences by some new created non deity that sooner or later somebody would disagree with, and off we’d go again
Until somebodies God arrives and tells us we’re all wrong we’ll just have to muddle through the best we can by agreeing “WTF do we know”
According to Scot gov stats, 1.6 % of the Scottish population identify as LGB. That compares with 1.7 % in England. But 12.5 % of SNP MPs are LGB which it makes it the highest representation in the world. The Scottish Parliament has 7% LGB representation making it also one of the highest in the world.
See here for stats:
However, women comprise 52% of the population and although representation in the Scottish Parliament has improved greatly to 45% there is still some way to go. If Ian Dale is looking for a demographic to support then here it is. Go Kate!
I wonder where they get those stats from. In the advice centre I work in when we help people fill in Adult Disability Forms ( new Scottish Government Disability benefit) there is a part which is an Equality Survey which asks Ethnic origin,gender,which religion you have or none and sexual orientation. When I explain to people about these questions a fair amount of them do not want to answer them so that part not completed. I personally think that part of the form is quite intrusive although it is better than some forms as it allows you to put that you are Scottish whereas some forms my local council issue I could only put British if I was filling it in. The new census data when it is released in Scotland will be interesting about this sort of info
Source: Scottish Surveys Core Questions 2015. If you look in the “About” section it tells you that the survey questioned 21,000 adults.
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/statistics/2017/01/sexual-orientation-scotland-2017-summary-evidence-base/documents/00513240-pdf/00513240-pdf/govscot%3Adocument/00513240. pdf (remove space)
Aye, us blokes need to be classed as a minority group!
I’m outnumbered 2:1 in my house. 4:1 if you include the King Charles spaniels.
I am looking forward to this leadership election completing. Part of me is keen to see what tripe (No, I’ve never liked it either) the MSM come up with next. I also anticipate that the concern trolls and SAnon (like QAnon but Scottish) will decry whoever wins as an MI5 agent and smelly traitor. Years ago the Absolutely character McGlashan was a parody now the comments section of another place seem to revel in channelling him. The Popular Front of Judea split into a dozen fanatical and mutually dismissive extremes.
It truly is a funny old world.
I get extremely annoyed by extremists who decide that other people are extremists
I have a “Down with this sort of thing” placard for that very event.
And he was just a very naughty boy…..
Look forward to election results – see whose leaving the snp and then we can get on with fighting for independence 🏴
I still predict SNP will still be in charge as the tories are governed by the right wing junta brigade of mark Francois…. Why are so many anti eu folk got French names? Is Farage in hiding with his family and their German passports? Labour will try and appease their right wing by becoming more right wing.
The ulsterisation of Scotland will fail despite the wee flagpoles popping up in some areas with the butchers apron displayed. Time planners told them to remove them. They are their to intimidate. To them we are a colony.
Ian Paisley Jnr was one of the first to get himself an Irish passport…but refuses to be ruled by ECJ laws?
Jacob Rees Mogg has moved his finance business from London to Dublin…
I look forward to Sarwar campaigning for Brexit and Trident at the next election.
Scotland suffered a net decrease of 16,000 in its population last year.
1.3 million Europeans left England because of Brexit.
and they wonder why they can’t get staff.
We ram this Brit nonsense down their throats when the time comes.
Scotland voted 62% Remain, and buyers regret increasing pro EU position.
👍 More than 60% at the last survey in England were for rejoining the EU…
If Yousaf is elected, the SNP is not under new management. It would be more of the same, as the old guard cling by a fingernail to power within the party.
I’d be very happy at a degree of continuity. IMO the SNP has governed well in the circumstances and either ‘continuity’ candidate – Forbes or Yousaf – could ‘continue’ that well.
In the half decade since Forbes was picked by Sturgeon for office, she’s done well. Like Yousaf, she’s new guard, being elected to senior cabinet just over 1.5 years after him.
Given the ‘massive Yes civil war’ and how ‘independence is doomed’, I thought it best to gravely inform people of how disastrous things look polling-wise.
Here is a plot of main Yes party vote share on the PR list for Holyrood. This is based on polls using the non-standard 2014 weighting which is favouring unionist parties / No – Ipsos just fell outwith the most recent points being 3 months old now.
The dashed lines are +/-3% from the average since May 2021.
As you can see, recent events have seen Yes party support plunge by, erm, 0% within MoE, consistent with independence being ‘killed stoned dead’ or something like that.
I think if Kate Forbes gets in there is a genuine chance she could unite almost all of us.
Boris Johnson said he was going to unite the country after he became PM.
Kate Forbes is Scotland’s Boris Johnson, Alec?
Thank the Chief through your forensic analysis above that we found out in time.
I’m wary of politicians who say they are going to unite the people. Margaret Thatcher quoted St Francis of Assisi, when she enetered No. 10 after being elected. I’m not sure whether she was speaking tongue-in-cheek or not.
She has a backbone of steel, she doesn’t lie and she fears no one, if that wasn’t enough, she’s brilliantly clever as well
I would not relish fencing with this young woman, she would be terrific if she gets the chance
She may be all these things but I am not sure about her grasp of economics and in particular the societal aspects of economics and the contribution a civil society makes to the economic health of a country and the overall sense of wellbeing that engenders.
I suspect she understands about 99.9999% more than Yousaf and Regan.
There’s also this:
And this, by Richard Walker:
Imagine what she can do if she’s FM and can direct all departments to embrace wellbeing.
She speaks Gaelic English and I understand Hindi better than Rishi Sunak, and was the first MSP to deliver a speech in Gaelic to the Holyrood parliament
I reckon if she gets the job we’ll hear the highlands all the way down to the borders, she’s pretty popular up there I’m told
It’s the economy, stupid.
In 1992 Bill Clinton’s strategist James Carvill delivered this message to the army of Democrat activists during the Bush Clinton race.
They always list things in 3’s,don’t they?
Forbes should use this handy little aide memoir from now ’til the end of the hustings.
Change vs. more of the same.
The economy, stupid
Don’t forget health care.
But this article, and the others you linked to, is her position as a minister Government lead by Ms Sturgeon and in partnership with the Greens. Is it necessarily going to be her focus/direction if she is FM? Continued partnership with the Greens for example?
I love a good ‘yes, but’, Legerwood.
‘Everything before but is bullsh1t’ (Attr. various)
The Just Transition from fossil to renewables?
How very Green?
Eradicate the poverty of 25% of Scottish children?
In the first few days reconnect with SME’s and promote growth in the Supply Side.
How very Tory?
Dual the A9, and A96?
How painfully overdue’
Next you’ll be telling me, ‘yes but’, that would attract wavering No voters to Yes.
Give it a rest, L.
I did not say ‘yes, but’ I said ‘But’. It is barely 2 years since the last Holyrood election. Is she going to continue in the direction indicated in the manifesto on which they were all elected? Continuity or change?
L, there is no such state as ‘continuity’.
Things, well, change; it’s the natural law.
Epidemics, European wars, 4 Blue Tory PM’s…I could go on.
But I won’t; this ‘stick to the manifesto pledges you were voted in on’, is, well, boring.
The FM has stood down.
Surely there should be a SGE?
Bring it on, or maybe not.
Good question Legerwood and I have to admit it’s one that has vexed me. When the NEC decided to postpone the special conference ( something that seems to have been forgotten along with its purpose )until after the election, explaining that it would be unfair for the FM( bit presumptuous maybe) to be bound by decisions made at conference before they were elected. Had they not made that decision, are they then confirming that the member vote will be honoured and having taken place prior to the new leaders election, may actually have provided
some guidance to those competing for the post.
Going back to your original question, their explanation would suggest that they could indeed go their own way on policy.
Wellbeing is a term that has many meanings and a lot of wellbeing issues cannot be solved by the economy.Jobs are great they often give people self worth.Having enough money is good too. However I would hate to be young in this era because the stresses of modern life are many. Scotland and a lot of the UK is in a mental health crisis just now which the covid pandemic has added to. People need the right support available at the right time and people must not feel shame about seeking help as ultimately not getting assistance can end in tragedy as sadly it did very recently to a friends son.Lets hope whoever ends up FM can make life easier for all who live in Scotland even just a wee bit
Faster than a speeding haggis, more powerful than the Flying Scotsman, able to leap Munros in a single bound… The infant of Dingwall is now the Woman of girders: Super Scot Woman! To best be in a position to use her amazing powers in a never-ending battle for independence, Super Scot Woman has assumed the disguise of Kate Forbes, mild-mannered MSP for a Highlands and Islands constituency.
Have you done the artwork? sounds exciting
Inflation is back up to 10.4%, the BoE is to hike interest rates again, tomorrow, and I read that I am to pay Boris Johnson’s quarter of a million legal bill over the Partygate ‘fiasco’.
England is a land of fools now.
I’m sure that Glenn Campbell will be lurking in the bushes outside Chez Dross hoping to doorstep the great Linesman when he pops his head ’round the front door to collect his milk and ‘papers.
GRR! Why is Kate Forbes allowed to exist!
It’s the economy, stupid.
Aye, but membership numbers! Ferries! Squirrels! Look over there!
Don’t forget the bird droppings, and the two souls up in Grampian who have waited 5 and a half years for surgery, according to Tess White, the Jenny Come Lately Blue tory list MSP of 18 months, and former employee of Shell Up There is Oil Country.
They get on their pins at FMQ and blurt out any old rubbish they like and get away with it…
We live under House Arrest and encricled by England’s Border force barbed wire….They will never let go until we take our country back.
But, life is just a bowl of ferries, keep repeating it’s the ferries….
And the Scotsman’s circulation dips below 8000….The Herald below 15,000…
Never mind; there’s plenty of cash for any scoundrel who’ll lie for England.
I don’t lie either I was brought up that way in Argyleshire and you read her correctly in every department. I didn’t have a vote but all fingers and toes crossed she does win ohh my feet hurt..! Thanks for that Dr Jim..
Argyllshire I believe. Freudian slip or just a bad speller?
Both as I new there was something wrong with it and I sent it in haste. My sister was the great speller never myself as she kept telling me!
And a thought for the future Scotland…
“With a holding of 95 percent, ESB is majority-owned by the Irish Government and the remaining 5 percent held by the trustees of an Employee Share Ownership Plan” – https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0322/1365587-esb-group-results/
If you’ve not seen it I recommend the Inverness Courier hustings, by far the best platform I’ve seen so far to properly showcase the three candidates, and very entertaining too.
As others have observed, KF is very smart, and why others think she doesnt have a grasp of using the economy to benefit the Scottish people doesnt make sense – she most certainly does have the will and the brains.
HY frequently displays his lack of knowledge, only having soundbites and a surface understanding of complex issues, the three women (including the presenter) often completing his answers to fill in his knowledge gaps.
Cringeworthy stuff, and hilarious if this was a celebrity gameshow and not an election for the probable next FM. We desperately need an FM with the credibility to represent all the Scottish people, otherwise we will seriously set back indy.
Sounds good. I’ve watched a few hustings plus clips from the TV and LBC interviews so I may have overdosed by now.
HY has an uncanny ability to adopt the policy positions of the other candidates, after his campaign team have had a think about it. I see he is now saying he will take legal advice before challenging the Westminster government on s 35. It seems like only two days ago he was rudely haranguing Ash Regan on the LBC show and demanding to know what legal advice she had had, and insisting a challenge was imperative.
So I may be all cringed out.
“You don’t like those principles? I have other people’s”
Changes track faster than a speeding train.
“Humza Yousaf: I’d drop gender legislation legal case if advice says we’ll lose”
Mmm, not so much a flip flop as a drip drop.
the feedback I am getting inside and outside the party is that whatever the rights and wrongs of the matter, people are sick to the back teeth of this topic and want to move on
Let’s be clear on this, it never was a topic of public debate – The general public didn’t give a monkeys over the GRR despite years of propaganda from HMS James Cook and the Bathist party, and despite MSM portraying daily that Scots are up in arms about it when most clearly were not, we’re on “the news where you/we are” terrain, propaganda.
Only once the Secretary of Flounce for Scotland put his petulant size 10s into the argument did that all change – The GRR was no longer about the actuality of modifying the GRA (as Law in RoI since 2015) but about interference to the democratic will of Scotland’s Parliament on behalf of the Scottish people to enact a law common across the EU because those funding the Tories don’t like it.
I agree folks are sick to death of the GRR, but ask yourself who is pushing the argument ? HMG etc.. ?
I was engaged in a great deal of debate over this issue during the two GRA consultations, followed by the Women on Public Boards consultation, followed by the appalling Hate Crime Bill consultation – which is now to be rerun as the misogyny omission consultation 2 years later.
Yes I am sick and tired of this nonsense but it’s not because the media have stirred up opinion. If anything the media have ben MIA for years, possibly saving it up for an independence campaign. It is the boneheaded flat refusal of the people drawing up these bills to actually listen to advice that makes me angry.
The controversy will never end until these people consult ALL the stakeholders honestly before drawing up legislation. Trying to sneak in controversial social engineering under the radar won’t work.
With respect Capella your response was not unexpected.
You completely and deliberately overlook the entire Holyrood Parliamentary process examining and debating the issues for close on 6 years.
Yet what irritates most is the perverse notion ” the media have ben (sic) MIA for years ”
No I am not most irritated by the media MIA although they have a duty to inform. In a democracy people need appropriate information in order to make decisions, such as who to vote for. The media failed to inform.
What angers me is the “entire Holyrood process” of botched consultations, refusal to listen to critics of the legislation while meeting twice weekly with one set of lobbyists. I participated in all the consultations and I watched the committee meetings and debates. These bills are deeply flawed and should be binned IMO.
I think this is what happens when legislators allow ideology to trump reality.
Dear God your avoidance of perspective is wholly remarkable.
First off the, media have been spinning the GRR game since early 2020 when Johnson shelved WM’s GRR in order to assault SG with a full on propaganda war over the GRR – How on earth you missed the 2 year long diatribe in the media and from HMS James Cook in particular defies logic, but please leave tips for others on how you achieved it.
– Yet the ultimate nonsense comes in your final flounce “I think this is what happens when legislators allow ideology to trump reality” – “The bill was voted on by the full parliament on 27 October 2022 and passed by a majority of 88 to 33, with 4 abstentions and 4 members not voting” – Cross part “ideology to trump reality” is totally ridiculous.
I agree that the Labour Party, the Liberals and especially The Scottish Greens are just as committed to the policy of Self ID as some in the SNP. I’ve watched many of them being asked to define “woman” and they can’t. More recently they are asked “Is Isla Bryson a woman” and they can’t say. (Kate Forbes was able to correctly say that Isla Bryson is a man who identifies as a woman).
But if there has been a 2 year long diatribe in the media about the GRR then you are right, I have missed it. Liz Truss shelved further action in Westminster when the results of a public consultation showed it was unpopular. Apologies I haven’t got a link to that but will post when I find it.
Tips on avoiding James Cook – cancel your TV licence and never watch the BBC or any other broadcast media. Clips posted on twitter from people you have chosen to follow are fine and checking the website to see what utter drivel they are punting today is also fine.
Liz Truss was the Minister for Women and Equalities who decided to shelve major reform of the GRA and instead reduced the cost of getting a GRC to £5.
For Women Scotland does not appear to have come into being until some time after the 1st public consultation. They certainly were persistent in asking to have meetings with the relevant ministerdespite their relatively recent appearance on the scene and absence of a submission to the 1st consultation and used Tory MSPs to raise questions in Holyrood.
Who is all the stakeholders Capella. Who did they deliberately miss out if anyone or who didn’t want to take part in the consultation. I am a woman and you and I totally disagree on GRR. Which proves that women are not a homogenous group about this Don’t get what you mean by social engineering. I too am sick of hearing about GRR and also sick of this leadership election fiasco too.
Murray Blackburn Mackenzie and For Women Scotland are two groups who have complained of lack of access to ministers to discuss what they perceived to be flaws in the proposals and conflict with the Equality Act 2010.
Here are links to their websites where you will find a lot of information:
It should also be noted that Mr Jack could not make a coherent case for what was wrong with the GRR Bill when the S35 was debated in Westmiinster. This lack of a coherent case against the Bill was further underlined when he and Ms Badenochndeclined invitations to give evidence to a Committee of the Scottish Parliament.
The Equality Act 2010 was drawn up when the GRA 2004 was already in place therefore the position of trans people with a GRC would already have been taken into account when framing the EQ 2010. The GRR Bill changes the process by which a GRC is obtained but not the significance or import of a GRC in relation to the EQ 2010.
Therefore it is very much worthwhile taking the matter to court. Firstly it will mean that the UKGov will have to show how it impinges on existing UK legislation. Something they have signally failed to do so far. Secondly, and equally important, it will defend the integrity of the Scottish Parliament and its right to make laws. If the S35 is left unchallenged then no legislation passed by the Scottish Parliament will be safe. For example, what would happen if the MUP Bill was going through the Scottish Parliament and an S35 was slapped on it?
If no action is taken to defend this Bill and by extension the Scottish Parliament then it is all over.
HY’s about turn smacks of political opportunism of the worst sort.
You are right about HY. He seems to change his mind about issues as quick as West of Scotland weather changes. Wholeheartedly agree that S35 must be challenged or another one will arrive very soon
I’m glad to see you want this pursued in the courts Yes2.
If the lawyers advise the case would be lost, it would not make sense to pursue the bill in the courts as is. If they think it can be won, it would make sense. This kind of goes without saying. It’s hardly news.
According to a recent poll by WoS, 62% (ex DK) of Scots want it pursued, with 4/10 of these wishing it chased as is, and 6/10 with amendments. That was with heavily leading questions trying to get people to say to dump it too!
Certainly, any FM who gives up on this manfisto pledge after the parliament voting massively for it (only the Tories opposed) would look weak and pathetic, crumbling at the first challenge from England. What would they fold on next the public would be asking.
Forget independence because England says no? Forget any law overturned by England? Any law the right-wingers from Bath don’t like is to be forgotten in the pursuit of populism?
If GGR is not pursued, Jack will start turning them all down. He’s already doing it with the bottle return scheme. He’s tested the water, and will smile broadly at a weak FM who meekly gives in.
Oh, and the Greens would capitalise as people move to them in response.
Won’t harm support for indy, but the SNP could loose to other indy parties.
“I’m glad to see you want this pursued in the courts Yes2.”
Don’t try to twist my words, if you want to lie do it about someone else.
No, I didn’t say I want to see it pursued in the courts.
What I said was this:
“Mmm, not so much a flip flop as a drip drop.“
Och don’t be so touchy – it was intended to be tongue in cheek. I mean why would you be unhappy at him apparently dropping it unless you wanted it pursued?
I get that you are a Kate Forbes fan. However, if you attack Yousaf, you hurt yourself and maybe even her a wee bit by association. That’s how these things work. It certainly won’t help Forbes get elected, no question about that!
Better to point out her good points rather than positing negatively about her rivals.
Mr SS is still to vote. Our nephew (on her side, formerly neice), is, as discussed in the past, trans. A lot of people have family and friends who are trans too. Most Scots want the bill pursued and an FM completely dumping it will look at best week, and at worst right-wing.
In other news, Yousaf is saying the thinks the bill gained the SNP support. I’m not sure there’s evidence for that, but it certainly did them no harm at all in polls.
Is there something you don’t understand about:
“I don’t like liars”?
Can’t you guys get a room ?
Better make it a twin to start off with though
Splash your boots Bob, he seems more your type.
On the topic of porkies…
If the manager of a team lied to you when none of the players did, would you claim ‘the team’ had lied to you?
If the BBC / Telegraph / Spectator whatever say ‘The SNP lied’ when one person within the party (maybe) told a lie, would you consider the former three etc as lying? You know, tarring the whole by the actions of one?
I’d say no then yes to these myself. Which is what I was on about the other day, and maybe still has you irked at me, even though I said sorry as it was out of frustration.
And I quite like Forbes, so when you damage her (through association) by attacking Yousaf, I can’t help but say something. It’s like you want Mrs SS to vote Yousaf and not Forbes when I was hoping my home would give one vote to each! 🙂
Och well, all the best anyway! But it’s true that positive always trumps negative.
Wtf are you on about
Not sure you are on about?
Just watched a short bit of Bojo’s inquisition.
His defence for holding parties during lockdown is that no one told him he was acting criminally.
Ignorance is no defence in law and if anything demonstrates his complete unsuitability for public office then this is it.
Apparently it’s ok for civil servants to drink at their desks according to this loathsome lying man.
So, tomorrow, DVLA, Border Force, Job Centres, and ,oh, nurses, doctors, emergency crews, can tipple while they work.
I watched this entitled liar blame everybody but himself.
My wife could not attend her mother’s funeral in Belfast.
We two were under strict lockdown for over two years, but the drunks in No 10 were working incredibly hard, so deserved to hold boozy Farewell and Birthday Do’s
Were hospital staff allowed to have a wee drink of farewell to colleagues who died on the ward?
This man is evil to the core. He is a friend of Alister Jack of course, soon to be Baron Jack of Tent Hire.
They are the devil’s spawn. My emotions go way beyond hatred of the Tories.
He’s going to get away with of course.
Eton, Cambridge…the Oligarchy, the right wing elite who run England, and who always have, and always will.
Starmer is merely taking hold of the baton next year.
Lol. But it is factually correct if you are Scottish but not British.
Tories rage as Humza Yousaf brands Westminster a ‘foreign’ government
The English British still insist the Irish are British, but not to their faces of course
It’s the arrogant attitude of the English British that they feel they have a right to label whoever they want whatever they want and that’s and end to it
Argue differently and they label you something else, but insist it’ll never be the label you want
The English British are like a wee bowling or golf club, they have a meeting in secret excluding the members of that club from participation, then make pronouncements on how those members will be dealt with
English Britain has spoken, so let it be written, so let it be done
Grew up with it, half my family are those people, morons who think it’s their God given right to be superior to all nations and races of people
England is basically a tiny wee redneck America without the guts and guns, so they do it passively aggressively
Here’s the plot from the other day showing shares for other parties. Alba are not always asked about, but seem to be where they were at the election on about 2%, which I’ve assumed. Support for Yes parties appears unchanged on May 2021. This ties in with Yes seeming to hold steady.
The SNP have slipped a bit, but not to the unionists. It’s seen in all polls, but often masked for Westminster / Holyrood constituency with the Greens / Alba hidden under ‘other’, giving a misleading picture. For the Holyrood regional list, the Greens are always promoted for, with Alba too regularly.
As you can see for the list, the Greens have been gaining steadily it seems from the SNP. I can’t help but wonder if this isn’t the primary effect of GRR? Hard to know, but given I’d vote Green on the list if the SNP dump the GGR bill / look weak in the face of English vetos / start looking like they are moving a bit towards the centre / a rightwards path, it might make sense.
Unfortunately for unionists, the GRR bill won’t help them. Most Yes party voters are lost to the union and will just shift between Yes parties, as suggested by this data.
That and of course it’s not a Yes party bill – Lab and Lib backed it and so would the Tories if they’d be told to by e.g. a May PM.
It is tellingly political of the media to constantly insist the GGR bill is the cause of membership numbers dropping in the SNP when the entirety of the Labour party Liberal Democrats Greens and some Tories voted for it, yet some SNP reps didn’t
Nobody seems to want to know how the memberships of these parties is doing
It is equally telling of the political media that they still insist Scots are up in arms over the GRR Bill despite almost nobody giving a toss, until AJ had a flounce that is…
‘.. when the entirety of the Labour party Liberal Democrats Greens and some Tories voted for it ..’ Indeed – and let’s not forget what was Tory government policy in Westminster not so long ago!
See: ‘The “screeching change of direction” – the forgotten Westminster history on gender recognition reform (a long read) – Talking up Scotland blog post, January 19, 2023 (https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2023/01/19/the-screeching-change-of-direction-the-forgotten-westminster-history-on-gender-recognition-reform/ )
I think the SNP do stand at something of a crossroads. A church can only get so big. There has already been a notable Yes split to the Greens. Nobody seemed to notice that. The Greens have grown (nearly doubled their % on the list since 2011) and have taken pro-independence votes from the SNP. Or at least if they didn’t exist, you’d think the SNP would be getting the biggest share of their pro-Yes voters.
Alba was the second split. However, they picked a kiss of death leader and modelled themselves as the SNP minus GRR, so have come across as an angry single issue SNP pressure group. A ‘blue’ colour more socially conservative pro-indy party is actually what’s missing in the mix and if something successful appeared to that effect, it would not harm the movement but further it.
The SNP do need to understand they are not guaranteed Yesser votes. However, the evidence says the risk is not losing to unionists, but to other Yes parties naturally. This will mainly be via the list, where their share has been falling steadily as that of the Greens and Alba rise. However, at the same time, the overall Yes share of votes is on the up long term, and went over 50% in 2021 hitting a new high.
This is just ‘growning pains’ as Scotland develops it’s full spectrum of indy support / parties.
I will never vote Alba no matter who is running it. Won’t vote for the Greens as Ross Greer”s major idea to save the planet seems to be turning East Dunbartonshire into one giant cycle lane. Tories don’t support Indy so don’t see a Conservative type Indy party ever arriving and I am a left leaning social democrat anyway so guess I will still be voting Snp both votes then.
On another matter can someone explain to me how the current leadership and NEC changed conference and the NEC itself to make it more controlled by the party hierarchy. This is alluded to a lot including by Lesley Ridfoch in The National today but to the general electorate awareness of what was changed is non existent
When I joined in 2014 I was told that all policy was made in conference and that resolutions adopted by conference were than translated into bills to be voted on in parliament. All very democratic. However it is apparent that not all resolutions e.g. from branches do make it onto the short list for conference vote. Resolutions which are adopted in conference do not then become bills for parliament. Bills for parliament appear without being adopted at conference e.g. the GRR bill. Some anodyne motion about being kind and making life easier for marginalised people probably was passed at conference. Who could vote against that?
Secondly, I have read that after a number of people were elected to the NEC who were critical of the direction the party had taken, new posts were created to restore the old guard majority. We have an Equalities officer + Women’s Officer+ Disability etc.
Third, during the 2021 election the NEC decreed that the 1st position on the list had to be someone with a disability or from an ethnic minority. This is how Joan McAlpine was ousted. This contravened the constitution clause stating that only constituencies could choose and rank their representatives.
These are my observations from my 9 year membership.
So called ‘positive discrimination’ is illegal, Capella.
Not really, you can draw up all-women shortlists as a means of boosting female representation where appropriate. The Equalities Act 2010 specifies this instance where discrimination can be used – but only this instance.
What was wrong IMO was the NEC suspending the SNP constitution without a vote allowing this. Not democratic.
Equalities Act explanation of selection of candidates.
Who, in ‘the current leadership’ who organised this damaging leadership circus, which included Iain Dale of LBC, who for certain was going to mercilessly attack and bully Kate Forbes, while giving ‘minority’ Muslim Humza an easy ride?
It is clear that Yousaf has had the Party Machine behind him and that he he the preferred pick for the Jock Media and The Scotia Ologarchy.
Last night, he hopped aboard the old merry go round…we’ll get a Section 30 when we get enough scots wanting it, England will crumble, and ‘aloow it, to which Kirsty blurted out the same old same old, WM won’t allow it.
Humza would be the death of the SNP.
Check out my rage-ometer typos.
What we can be sure of Jack, is that SNP members won’t be judging candidates based on what the British MSM tell them to think! We can be 100% positive of this!
These are not your average voter on the street we are talking about (albeit most of these totally ignore the MSN and vote SNP/Green etc as they’re not sheep), but those most wise to nefarious British state and it’s propogandist media. 🙂
Yes, Alba is not for me either, and I think the Greens, while often well intended, have some rather impractical ideas about energy, economics etc.
However, the beauty of AMS-PR is I could vote for both. STV offers a similar approach of rankings, allowing you to split / hedge your bets.
So, if on social issues the SNP moved more conservative (e.g. abandoning GRR), I could vote for them with my constituency vote and for the Greens on the list. Doing so, I’d be basically placing myself somewhere in between. No harm done to Yes either. If a Yes party is managing 5% in your region, your vote will not be lost at all.
I used to vote SNP-Margo for reasons along this line.
“Lord Hope, former Deputy President of the Supreme Court, having considered the reasons set out in the Order, has said he considers it will be very difficult to challenge the Order on the basis that the Secretary of State could not have reached a reasonable belief based on those reasons. His first thoughts are that the reasons are likely to be found to be sufficient. Lord Falconer, a former Labour Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice takes the contrary view and considers the basis for the Order could be successfully challenged. This is likely to be ultimately a question for the Supreme Court.”
Meanwhile, for the next 2 years or so, transgender people are in limbo while people fight Westminster because “it’s the right thing to do”, instead of trying to reach a compromise for the sakes of the transgender people.
Difficult to reach a compromise when the other side ie the UKGov in the person of SoS Jack & Ms Badenoch will not engage.
Furthermore the transgender community is probably prepared to wait if Self-ID is preserved rather than have a ‘compromise’ such as a reduction in cost but no change to the existing process replace the GRR Bill
I see this morning HMS James Cook has their latest version of Ferry-stories leading Scotland/Politics, “Nicola Sturgeon criticised for ‘premature’ CalMac ferry announcement”, https://archive.ph/nDS1t 🙄
You need to scroll through the recycled snippets from what feels like thousands of PQ articles to arrive at the “criticised” part, “The committee is not convinced that such a public announcement was necessary or indeed appropriate…”
I’m “not convinced” of Mr McColl’s portrayed innocence, “not convinced” of the BBC’s claimed impartiality, and “not convinced” the islands served are angry with an SNP administration who reversed years of stalling investment in replacement vessels by the SoSS and subsequent Labour administrations.
Herald has this Ferries story on its front page today so I guess we know what DRoss’ question will be today.
If only we had a high speed train or cross rail with tunnels everywhere- sorry that’s London.
I remember how we spent lots of our oil cash on a tunnel to Europe. Where is that BTW?
well done, Kate Forbes, for refusing to be set up by Kirsty Wark in her wee insert on Newsnight.
I dipped in last night to check the reaction to the Disgusting Man’s grilling earlier.
An incredibly fat big man Baron Greenhailgh, (the buttons of his shirt strained to constrain his enormous girth) who was friend of Boris..they keep calling him ‘Boris’…the portly Baron being the idiot who was one of his London Mayor unelected henchmen, the man responsible of spending £300 k on water cannon which were never used, and sold for £11 k as scrap, who blurted that ‘Boris’ was the PM and above the law, so it was all right to defy Covid rules and guidance.
Usual humming and hawing about whether he lied, misled, or unwittingly fibbed.
He is a serial liar of course.
Hs £220,000 tax payer lawyer couldn’t even reign this entitled arrogant buffoon in to day.
He’s toast of course.
Anyhow; later Kirsty Wark ‘interviewed’ Humza, after Derbyshire revealed that Forbes had refused to be set up by Kirsty…
Of course, Kirsty prefers Humza. She let him refute the Regan and Forbes attacks on his record, nodding like a noddy dog on the parcel rack as he triumphantly listed his successes.
He is the gradualist candidate who Kirsty and the Scotia Nostra Brits want to take over.
He will spend years persuading us to consistently vote for pro independnece candidates, and when the majority vote, (not 50% +1 of course) the the foreign government to the South will simply crumble and ‘allow’ a second referendum.
Auld Kirsty liked that one. When do we want it? mmm…don’t seem to know, Hum.
Wark like the legions of Jock media before her stonewalled the notion that the Foreign Government in London would ever agree to a Section 30; the corollary of course being that the game was up for you separatists…good old Kirsty, holiday companion of Jack McConnell, Laird o’ Cockpen.
An armed uprising it is then, Kirsty, and drive the invader from our shores?
Well done, Kate Forbes.
When you become leader, bring this poisonous relationship with the Brit Jock media to an abrupt halt.
Baron To Be Jack and his minions refuse to be interviewed by anybody, yet spent £1.1 million of my taxes on spin doctors.
Now we know how Tom Harris pays for his food and fuel.
Lying for the Blue Tories.
Refuse to be the subject of ridicule by racist religious bigots from now on in, Kate.
Leave Glenn Campbell ootside, drookit, in the rain, talking to a camera.
60,000 new born babies were forcibly stolen from their mothers in the 1950’s ’60’s, and 70’s, and sent for adoption..somewhere.
NS ‘apologised’ on behalf of the government for this evil act yesterday.
Last night, the Jock media of course covered up the massive crime against humanity by explaining that the social attitudes to babies born out of wedlock at the time was such that it was ok to snatch infants from their mothers breasts and give them away to normal god fearing couples to raise.
I lived through the 50s 60s and 70s
The churches and the Scottish hierarchy ruled our lives.
Will their be an in-depth investigation into this illegal human trafficking?
I bet not.
Religion meant that I couldn’t shop on a Sunday.
In the 21st Century, we just apologise and move on?
There must be records.
Every woman whose child was stolen deserves justice, and the culprits exposed.
They used to chain up the swings in my local park on a Sabbath.
Ah well now, I remember when living through in Edinburgh, night clubs shut and shuttered by 1 minute to 12 on a Saturday night. And of course having to drink in hotels on Sundays. Kind of miss those days for some odd reason. Anyways, here’s Hamish Imlach:
“Imagine you’re in Scotland on a Sunday afternoon
Toora loora loora loora lay”
for the full lyrics.
As a young family, our Fair Fortnights were spent in Dunoon.
As a ‘bona fide traveller’, my young Dad was allowed entry to a hotel bar on a Sunday.
We were is a single end room and kitchen with bed recess for the hols of course.
We loved it.
Lots of jig saws and colouring books on dreich slate grey Sundays.
Nowhere was open.
It was a sin to enjoy yourself in those dark days.
Who organised the mass abduction of tens of thousands of innocents back then?
How many have tried to get in touch with their real parents?
We lived through 300 years of darkness and oppression, I fear.
In my teenage years, some unfortunate girls delivered the news to their boyfriends that they were ‘late’
The outcome generally was a teenage wedding.
A ‘Huvtie’ wedding, in our vernacular, the equivalent of a shotgun wedding, without the malice.
It was viewed as one of life’s challenges, and families rallied around to support the newlyweds.
I loved the eupemism: ‘She fell pregnant’.
Tripped on the pavement, got back up,, dusted herself down, and was with child?
This was in the days before the pill, when male contraceptives were provided by many barbers.
Nowadays there is a more effective ‘snip’ t0 stop having babies.
I lived in a tight knit community in Clydebank; I can recall of no girl being forced to give up her child.
But I was a cosseted late teens gadabout, so what would I know.
Still, who are these people who abducted 10.s of thousands of children?
I see the FM giving her last statement to applause – well not quite some tories and others didn’t. How sad.
How small minded and with enmity some individuals have living their lives is a mystery to me.
Plenty shop workers don’t want to work on a Sunday I recall or work excessive OT but were forced into it due to poor wages. Some religious groups don’t recognise Sunday but Saturdays.
Shops in Callander were always open on a Sunday. That is why all the mystery tours from the Falkirk/ Stirling areas went there in 1950s into 1960s.
There will be a special place reserved for them in John Knox’s Hell for them.
The ghost of Baillie Nicol Jarvie will swoop down from Aberfoyle and breathe fire and brimstone over their livestock and turnip fields.
My formative years were late ‘fifties, early sixties, L.
No Mystery Tours for us lowlifes then.
I vaguely remember Italian cafes and Jewish barbers were allowed to open on Sundays…Jewish Sabbath is a Saturday, Hamish 100.
But my overall recollection of Sundays was of deep gloomy shut downs.
Perhaps that’s why millions flocked to Blackpool for their hols?
The 1950s into the sixties were my school years. I remember the mystery tours in the summers. Midland Bluebird from Falkirk 10s 6d. Remember the bona fides travellers too. All those men getting on buses to go somewhere to get a drink and showing their bus ticket to prove they were bona fides travellers. Not sure what the minimum distance was that you had to travel but Larbert Cross to Denny Cross seemed to qualify.
I think it was the Temperance Society that were instrumental in getting that legislation brought in sometime in late 19th century perhaps.
10s 6d for a pint. That’s practically a full armful, Mush.
Apart from a school trip to Edinburgh Zoo and Holyrood Castle, as reward for collecting most money to send to the ‘black babies’ in Africa, (we were so innocent then) we were pretty much too skint to wander far afield down our neck of the woods.
Still at school when 18; my pocket money was ten bob for the week.
I still can’t fathom how my parents put us all through a Senior Secondary education and beyond, on one coppersmith’s wage.
My mother, of course, like all her neighbours, stayed at home and brought up their families.
It never occurred to them to go out to work.
The very rare case of a mother working while their children were of school age was deeply frowned upon.
Children of families where both parents went out to work, were branded ‘latch key kids’, and not in a good way.
I often wonder what my mother could have achieved if she were born 40 years later.
Don’t get me wrong; she had a rich full life, and my parents doted on each other. Each to their own, I suppose.
I’m doddering like the old fart into which I have morphed.
Fancy watching Italy England on free TV tonight.
My growing youthful years in the Borders were also those of the late 50’s and early 60’s.
“Bona fide” travellers from the nearby rural area used to criss cross between villages on Sunday lunchtime and evenings.
Only local hotels could serve the demon drink on the sabbath.
A signing in book in each establishment had to record “from where – and to where” each person was travelling.
Some local wags from one village travelling to another just 5 miles distant all recorded themselves as going from Bathgate to Stirling.
The two constables then stationed in each of the two villages were PC’s Stirling and Bathgate.
I kid you not.
They weren’t best pleased apparently.
I thought about abstaining in protest against the awful panel of candidates. In the end, however, I gave in to what Cat Boyd called the lesser-evil blackmail and voted for Humza Yousaf a few moments ago, notwithstanding the dread I feel at his implication that Scottish independence should require more than a fifty-percent-plus-one majority. To be quite clear: my vote for him was not an endorsement of any such principle, and I will resist any attempt to portray it as such in future should the issue arise.
I have popped in here a couple of times tonight to see if things are any cheerier. Nope it’s worse the rants are becoming more frequent and the amount of very obvious Alba supporters posting made me wonder if the blog had been hacked and I had ended up in WOS. I get it, practically no one on here likes Humza and same folks think he is doing a really bad job and has been really cruel to Kate and Ivan etc.
It looks like me,my brother and possibly Skier will be the only members of the Snp by end of the year so their next election campaign will have to be totally cheapskate. I knew I should have stuck to my principles about not ever joining a political party. This comments section and The National’s feels like every really bad Unison union meeting I attended roled into one. Why don’t folks get it over with and depose Humza and install Kate as FM and then peace and happiness can resume. Meanwhile outwith this netherworld I have spent some time trying to think of ways to help a friend whose son died suddenly in the most tragic of circumstances. He leaves a wife and very young children and a very insecure financial future for them. They may even end up homeless. Their situation is hardly unique, things like that are happening all over Scotland every day. Arguing about politics sorry I no longer give a stuff about that. I am away back to watch Star Wars stuff to cheer myself up