The real cancel culture is Tory cancel culture

To absolutely no-one’s surprise, emails and WhatsApp messages leaked to the Guardian newspaper show that the BBC “regularly” bows to pressure from the Conservative Government over the wording of its headlines and the framing of its stories. The whistle blower claims that among other instances of the BBC pandering to the demands of the Conservatives, Downing Street was demanding that the Corporation’s reporters refrained from using the word “lockdown” in relation to the lockdown ordered by Boris Johnson on 23 March 2020. Perhaps Johnson was hoping that if the BBC did not call the lockdown a lockdown then no one would notice all the parties going on in Downing Street. As a result of the pressure from Downing Street, the BBC website and broadcasts that day spoke about ‘restrictions’ and ‘curbs’ whereas other broadcasters and outlets such as Sky News were referring to a ‘lockdown.’

Even the Daily Mail, not noted for its critical stance towards the Conservative party, had LOCKDOWN BRITAIN in block capitals across the greater part of its front page on its edition published the following day. Another leaked message showed a senior editor congratulating news staff for staying away from the subject of Jennifer Arcuri after the American tech entrepreneur had given an interview to a newspaper in October 2020 which confirmed that she had had an affair with Johnson, following allegations that he used his position as London mayor to secure favourable treatment and financial payments for her. This is worth considering when we look at the otherwise inexplicable way in which the BBC avoided reporting on the allegations levelled against the Conservative peer Michelle Mone, allegations which were deeply embarrassing to the Conservative government, until the story was dominating the news agenda and had become impossible to ignore. This was markedly different from the treatment the Corporation meted out to SNP Michelle Thomson, who was hounded and doorstepped by BBC reporters over allegations – later found to be without substance – which led the BBC’s Scottish news day after day relating to a sum of money a tiny fraction of that involved in the allegations levelled at Michelle Mone, allegations which the Tory peer continues to deny.

A BBC insider told the Guardian : “Particularly on the [BBC] website, our headlines have been determined by calls from Downing Street on a very regular basis.” They added that the messages seen by the Guardian represent only a small snapshot of what was going on, because most pressure was applied verbally rather than written down.

It is clear that this behind the scenes pressure is pervasive and it causes the Corporation to self-censor in order to avoid offending the sensibilities of the snowflakes of the Conservative party. In any case the BBC is primed at its highest levels to be sympathetic to Conservative messaging. Not only is Richard Sharp, the chair of the BBC’s board of directors a Conservative party donor and personal friend of Boris Johnson, who helped to facilitate an £800,000 personal loan for Johnson, he was also Rishi Sunak’s boss when the current Prime Minister was making millions at Goldman Sachs. Tim Davie, the director-general of the BBC, in charge of the day to day running of the broadcaster, is a long standing Conservative supporter. He was a Conservative party council candidate in the 1990s and was once deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative Association.

When criticised for its perceived pro-Conservative bias, the BBC generally retorts that it also receives complaints about ‘pro-left wing’ bias from Conservative supporters and therefore it must be impartial and unbiased. There are certainly many such complaints from right wing figures in the wake of the BBC’s humiliating U-turn on Gary Lineker.

1970s ‘comedian’ Jim Davidson, who is to comedy as Jurassic Park is to wildlife management, has joined the long list of right wing figures who rail against ‘cancel culture’ by demanding that the entire BBC be cancelled. Davidson took to that notably unbiased publication the Daily Express, AKA the Beano for fascists, to call for the TV licence fee to be scrapped, claiming that BBC stands for Bring Back Communism and called for everyone to watch GB News ‘all day long,’ because apparently a channel which touts extreme right wing conspiracy theories is unbiased. Davidson was once the favourite comedian of the famously humourless Margaret Thatcher, which tells you all that you need to know, claims that the BBC has ‘lost the public.’ And indeed Jim Davidson is something of an expert in this respect, as he lost the public sometime around 1982.

There is however a fundamental difference between the criticisms levelled at the BBC by Scottish independence supporters and those on the left on the one hand, and those of the likes of Jim Davidson and the frothing right wing conspiracy theorists of G Beebies News on the other. I am a long-standing critic of the BBC, but I do not want it to be abolished and the news space given over in its entirety to privately owned and funded news outlets and broadcasters where right wing views are overwhelming dominant, I want a public service broadcaster which genuinely reflects the range and diversity of opinion in the population which it serves. The left and Scottish independence supporters want fairness, impartiality and an equal platform, however that is not what right wing Anglo-British nationalists want, what they want is complete and utter domination of the news space and the media environment. They tolerate no opposition or different points of view. We can see this all too clearly in the reaction of British nationalists to the very existence of The National, the sole newspaper in Scotland out of 38 daily and weekly newspapers which supports Scottish independence in a country where more than half the population is sympathetic to the idea of an independent Scotland. Its very existence is a huge affront to right wing British nationalists, who seek a return to the days when there was no Scottish Parliament and no Scottish newspaper advocating independence.

This is why there is no equivalence between the criticisms of the BBC from independence supporters and the liberal left and criticisms of the Corporation from the Conservative right. The two sets of critics seek very different things, the first want fairness and impartiality, the second want complete and total domination and the silencing of views that they disagree with, and in pursuit of this aim they gaslight us by falsely claiming that this is the goal of those who want a BBC and a wider media which truly represents the population that they purport to serve.


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291 comments on “The real cancel culture is Tory cancel culture

  1. Capella says:

    I’ve never forgiven them for moving Women’s Hour from its 2.00 pm slot.

    That was under the Birt reforms which removed all the “lefty” stuff and replaced it programs about how markets worked, removed Trade Unionist interviews and replaced them with Tory donors. They “outsourced” programme makers to private companies which were composed of former employees now obliged to bid for business from the BBC. This was rebranded as “producer choice”.

    The BBC has been transformed from a Public Service broadcaster to a State Broadcaster. Unfortunately, we are trapped inside this ghastly state – for now.

  2. Naina Tal says:

    Aye, the controversial broadcaster is now operating at Putinesque levels of propaganda and misinformation. Unfortunately like in Putin’s Russia, a large section of the populace believe it. Remember too this same controversial broadcaster has it’s World Service wbere it tries to con people in other countries having told everyone they always broadcast the truth. They even have the arrogance to bill themselves as “The World’s Radio Station. Boak!

  3. Capella says:

    Well at last the membership numbers have been revealed and it’s 72,000.

    • deelsdugs says:

      There’s many an issue going on with the ballot papers and emails.
      Perhaps a bit of external interference…

    • Capella says:

      For balance – The National reports figures for the other Scottish parties:

      Latest figures from 2020/2021 suggest

      Scottish Labour: 16,467
      Scottish Greens: 7,500
      Scottish Liberal Democrats: 4,185 members
      Figures are not available for the Scottish Conservatives, but they have been approached for comment…

      • Eilidh says:

        Funny Tories have nothing to say on that

        • Capella says:

          Indeed. I think all parties should have to declare membership numbers in their annual returns to the Electoral Commission. I cant think of any reason why this should be kept secret.

  4. deelsdugs says:

    Class… ‘the Daily Express, AKA the Beano for fascists’ 😁

  5. Ken says:

    Thatcher gave over to the right wing Press and denied it. Murdoch bought over the Times and NTW.

    Westminster is supposed to guarantee a free and fair Press. Without a balanced Press there is no Democracy. MSM is owned by tax evading non Doms.

    Cameron and Clegg sent the robocops into the Guardian to smash up the print room and threaten the Editor with jail. For publishing the truth in the Snowden revelations. Spying illegally over the world. The corruption of the illegal wars. .Wikileaks.

  6. grizebard says:

    I’m only sorry that (so far) we haven’t had any whistleblowers within the BBC Northern Outpost exposing any of the anti-indy distortions that have been crafted there for some considerable time now.

    (In full accord with its Unionist Charter, of course. But I guess there aren’t any messages to reveal, because everyone who still works there knows the score, I guess, if they want to stay. But are they all solidly pro-Union from top to bottom?)

    The results though are self-evident, if only more licence-payers would pay more attention and think.

  7. Naina Tal says:

    Grizebard: I remember a few years ago someone published a list of all the interconnections between the Scottish Labour i.n.o. Party and personnel within the controversial broadcaster. Can’t find it now but might go a long way to explain the rampant unionism which undoubtedly exists within Pacific Quay?

  8. Skintybroko says:

    Ever since John Robertson pointed out the blatant bias of the BBC it certainly opened my eyes to the wider media and how it was manipulated to give the Government of the days pov.

    As for membership – tremendous numbers despite the losses, the opposition would give their eye teeth for numbers like that

    As for Ash Regan – WTF never going to be a unifying candidate

  9. Dr Jim says:

    Bad news sells, rumours sell, innuendo sells and propaganda outsells them all
    300 years of telling people they’re useless and pathetic then those people are ready to believe anything

    It’s easy to believe and buy scandal, Scotland in particular is used to it, we had the Labour party for long enough didn’t we, now we have the Tory party and both of those liars insist the SNP are the bad guys, so why wouldn’t the people fall for it, they expect to be lied to, they expect to be swindled, so bad news is good news for the English government and the media who serve them

    Ask anybody in the street “do you believe the media? and the reply will be Naw Nuh not a chance, then ask do you believe politicians? the answer will be the same

    The reason? Tory Labour Liberal democrat have destroyed all faith and hope in something better, so the people now believe nothing while simultaneously believing everything that sounds bad because it’s what they’re used to, it’s easier to blame and point fingers than to question

    When will the truth about CMAL and their deliberate actions in the delaying of the building of Scottish ferries eventually come out? are there really still some people who think this is down to the Scottish government?
    New management and a complete takeover of the shipyard who promised delivery with no problems until CMAL got involved and they’re delayed again
    Everywhere you look CMAL are in there, even more than Andy Murray’s Mum at his tennis games

    The award winning Queensferry crossing bridge, the most ambitious construction of its type in the world on budget on time and no problem, why not? not a Scottish company, American German Spanish
    Biggest windfarms in the world all over the North sea, no problem except for when the Scottish government attempted to bring in Scottish companies to create work for them

    …….Am I a Conspiracy theorist? damn right

    Tonight STV news interviewed half a dozen people in Ash Regan’s constituency, there was only one Scottish accent amongst them all, we’ve all seen and heard these vox pop interviews of “random” people on BBC and STV, you can’t tell me in a nation of five and a half million people Scots are so thin on the ground in our own country the media can’t find any of us

    • UndeadShaun says:

      SSE are building new renewable assests on time, accross Scotland and they are Scottish, with global HQ in Perth.
      But they may subcontract to others for some of the work.

      Currently building Scotlands largest offshore windfarm on east coast and in planning stage for at least 2 new pumped storage facilities.

      • Just saying Shaun, in January 2020, as a domestic customer, I was “sold” to Bristol based O.V.O, by S.S.E.

        • UndeadShaun says:

          You are confusing with SSE plc.

          SSE plc, sold their domestic retail arm to OVO in 2020. And is is the website for that ovo owned company.

          They are still headquartered in Perth

          SSE are now concentrating on renewable generation, thermal, distribution and transmission. And are involved in projects in other countries like Japan along with extensive renewable expansion in Scotland and Ireland and are co partners with Norways Vårgrønn and Equinor, in the massive dogger bank offshore wind project in North sea

          Their website is if you want to investigate further.

    • deelsdugs says:

      I believe we are Dr Jim, an indigenous population of Scots and Gaels effectively, and covertly, being erased from their land, their language, their lives. All those ‘British’ accents that erode the airwaves, and daily life, buy up land and properties with liquid cash, turn the environment into concrete jungles of human deprivation and poverty. Concrete is the 21st century version of borders sheep.
      And then there are those who move into the villages and set up ‘development trusts’ that don’t always work for the local communities being that they have no idea about Scottish/Gaelic village life and try to take over with ‘British’ attitude.
      Sounds familiar…

      The media know we’re not going to be interviewed without a twist in the tale Scottish humour.

      Also, on ‘reporter authority’ (not me) pictures and photos, that’s what the gutter press rely on to sell their shite.

  10. John Boyd says:

    BBC Misreporting SCOTLAND excelling tonight on the the early evening ‘news where you are..’
    Glenn Campbell/James Cook are not the natural successors of the worthy roving reporter who was Fyfe Robertson.
    Avuncular they are not.
    Couldnae tie Fyfe’s shoelaces.

    • Eilidh says:

      Yes I saw it the smirk on James Cook face was so prevalent when mentioning fall in Snp membership my TV remote control escaped my hand and headed towards the TV. Sally and Glen were every bit as bad

      • Stephen McKenzie says:

        Its just such a pity that we did not get the drop in BBC Scotland viewer or listeners over the same period.

    • John, I recall the magnificent Fyfe doing a piece in swinging ‘sixties London on the Pop Art scene.
      He was ‘live’ at a ‘Happening’, as it was called groovily, where the ‘artist’ had arranged for the coolest Carnaby Road dedicated followers of fashion to position themselves on a long ladder, each with a bucket; the cool guy at the top poured water into the bucket of the miniskirted flower below, and she in turn pouered the water in to the bucket of the one on the rung below, and so on.
      Old fyfe looked from the Hapening to us the audience, and sighed:-
      I don’t know about you, the viewer, but as far as I’m concerned, art is for arting, fart is for farting.’
      Or words to that effect.
      In those days, BBC told it how it was, not what their Oxbridge Eton bosses told them.
      Cook, Campbell, Magnusson, Wark, couldn’t lace his boots.
      Why no pressure on Scootish Yoons to reveal their membership numbers?
      The Scotsman circulation is now just over 8,000 yet BBC Jockland reports their guff as gospel.
      The Herald is now calssed as a regional newspaper, with circulation below 15,000.
      Yet we can rely on Geissler and Co to ‘big them up’, as the Voice of The Nation.
      They are dying off..yet there is enough Dark Money to pay the wages of the traitor.

  11. yesindyref2 says:

    So basically speaking the SNP leadership rose from 25,500 in September 2014 with the news that despite the NO vote the dream was still alive and the SNP would have a new leader – Sturgeon, to 125,000 not that long after (I think beginning of 2015). 400% rise.

    Recently it dropped from 125,000 to 72,000. 43% drop.

    But with a new leader at a 400% rise again, it could go up another 5 times to 360,000.

    Shhhhh, don’t tell the Unionist BBC that 🙂

    • yesindyref2 says:

      The SNP loudly proclaimed that rise from 25,500 – a certain person was on witter with glee. But complete silence about the drop, leading to figures being bandied around like 30,000, or if you followed some peoples’ dubious math2, -30,000.

      The truth shall set you free, and so will courage.

      Learn the lesson SNP. Set the benchmark for openness and honesty, and tell the rest to eat your dust.

    • Only, and I’m a member, if the new leader prioritises Independence. And I speak from many years of canvassing. If that happens, you will, once again, see a rise in membership.

  12. Dr Jim says:

    Mike Russell tells of the 2014 leadership election in which he stood as a candidate when a certain other candidate worked his little cotton socks off and almost destroyed the party to get what he wanted

    He’s still doing it

    • Dr Jim says:

      Not 2014, 2004

    • yesindyref2 says:


      I can understand his upset, but he needs to calm down himself, not tell others to calm down!

      Personally I think all this is good for the SNP, it shows their human side. I seriously do forecast a revival in membership once the leadership election is settled.

    • Tam the Bamca re for a tibble of my Laphrúayg says:

      Hear you Dr Jim…….I;m trying to comprehend the pressure this young lady is sustaining…my must have thought before now

  13. Handandshrimp says:

    I see we are still gripped in a life or death civil war… according to the press.

    Why is this completely bypassing me? I feel aggrieved that everyone I speak to discusses the leadership contest amicably.

    On membership numbers I’m not really surprised, very few people active in the party have left but all parties gain or lose numbers depending on interest and the mood of the moment. What are Labour’s numbers? Has Starmer gained or lost members with his Momentum purge? I think the general view is he has shed 150,000 members. Would he consider that as Labour falling apart or does he quietly say thank God?

    Back in 2011 the SNP won an overall majority in Holyrood with 25k members. The rise to 125k was incredible. On a UK wide basis it would be like Labour or the Tories having 1.5m members. Even 72k is, per head of population, close to 900k if it were replicated by a party UK wide. In short the SNP still has double the membership of all the other Scottish parties put together.

    Will membership rise again? Perhaps but then again that surge both for the SNP (and Momentum) might be a passing Zeitgeist. However none of this makes for copy in the rubbish that passes as political journalism in the Daily Meghans. They have their agenda to grind out like good like propagandists.

    If Forbes wins then some members who have felt that the party had become bogged down in the identity mire may return but I suppose some might leave if Forbes cannot extend an olive branch to those that want to be validated by the new leadership. Keeping everyone onside is never easy in any walk of life. If Forbes wins and does square that circle then no doubt the gutter press will attempt wedge on religion at every possible juncture… notwithstanding that they would be the first scream blue murder if Christians were debarred from standing. It is a funny old world.

    Anyhoo, anyone still to vote or is it all done and dusted by now?

  14. scottish_skier says:

    Good news is that #membershipnumbersgate from the BBC etc should give a nice boost to the, erm, membership numbers as people join up for the first time or again in response.

    That’s how the British nationalist law of unintended consequences works.

    We all remember what them gloating over 2014 ‘killing nationalism stone dead (again)’ did to SNP / Green membership. 🙂

    I do think Fobres and Regan may have hurt themselves a wee bit by seeming to give some credence to the Brit wild conspiracy theories which have Peter Murrell counting the votes secretly himself in a room with Sturgeon and Yousaf, all laughing evilly.

    Rather boringly, the reality is the same independent company that’s being doing SNP internal elections for 10 years is doing it again.

  15. Iain says:

    For the first time in my life I am in agreement with Jim “Nick-nick” Davidson. When an organisation is as corrupt as the BBC it’s time to bin it and start afresh. As was done in Eastern Europe in the 1990s.

  16. Dr Jim says:

    We live in a cancel culture world of intolerance led by folk who claim they represent tolerance and fairness when what they really represent is passive aggressive bullying
    The media spotted this a long time ago and use it to their advantage to advance their cause of news creation, the passive aggressive supporters think it’s great for them so they’re happy, but they should also understand that at the first available opportunity that media will turn on them like a two headed hydra once their usefulness is over

    Most folk in general know what’s right and what’s wrong and again in the main don’t wake up in the morning researching various different ways of deliberately offending or causing hurt to other people, but the cancel culture experts aren’t happy with that, they press on regardless demanding more and more attention to their pain hurt offended feelings and misery in general and we the majority of the public are informed daily that we must adhere to these demands or the cancel culture minority will invent a new unpleasant name to label us

    They join political parties then they become *activists* in those parties, then at the first sign of another opinion or attention paid to some other group the professional cancel culturists pounce like escaped caged carnivores banding together to protest and cancel the rest of us once again for doing or saying something unthinkable that we never thought about but they had a meeting and decided it was bad

    Because this is the new problem we now face, the thought police, once again led by the cancel culturists in the same way as some other countries have the morality police, and we’ve all seen how that operates in enforcing the minorities will of being acceptably correct in our thinking behaviour

    I’m sick fed up of these twee wee miseries with no sense of humour telling me my sense of humour is verboten in the new cancel world, most of us don’t ever set out to bother a single soul on the planet, live and let live is a good motto, be whatever you want to be is fine with me, but the cancel culturists are imposing their misery upon the rest of us when we don’t impose anything upon them

    They must cease and desist conflating people’s personal taste with being anti anything they want to promote, sometimes people just don’t like stuff, it doesn’t mean they’re anti others for liking what they want and it doesn’t mean the cancel culturists have the right to insist that we do

    The cancel culturists need to accept others taste way of life and right to be, in the same way their rights are defended, do as you would be done by is another good motto that seems to have morphed into do as we tell you or we’ll condemn you with righteous indignation because we’re more correct than you

    The intolerant cancellers need to try a little of their own invented tolerance

  17. Old Pete says:

    Stephen Flynn was very good on QT. I was very impressed, would like him as the party leader. Hope Kate wins.

  18. Welsh_Siôn says:

    A discussion with an Englishman (a fairly intelligent one otherwise – and, no, that’s not a contradiction in terms) regarding the candidates for the SNP leadership last night.

    A run down of the candidates:

    “There’s that Muslim one.
    There’s that born-again Christian one.
    And there’s that other one.”

    Grateful to have the Leadership candidates of my political party Anglosplained to me in such terms. Made my choice of Leader that much easier.

    • Hamish100 says:

      I thought the “other one” was RC. Surely “born again” applies to her too? It goes with the territory.

  19. Capella says:

    While the MET police are mired in racism and misogyny, Police Scotland plan to address the problem of violence against women and girls.

    Police plan to tackle ‘incel’ culture to cut violence against women

    The Centre for Countering Digital Hate found that UK web traffic data to three of the largest incel sites had grown from 114,420 monthly visits to 638,505, over the period of March to November 2021.
    This has been accompanied by a rise in instances of sexual crime and domestic abuse according to Police Scotland, although cases often go unreported.
    Although the overall number of reported sexual crimes decreased by 4.5% from 11,347 to 10,837 between April and December of last year, there was an increase of 6.6% when compared to the five-year average, with 672 more crimes reported than the previous year’s 10,164.

    • Handandshrimp says:

      I had to Google incel. Without wishing to appear insensitive surely a more traditional nomenclature was bampot.

      The very fact that someone who lacks the charm and sensitivity to find a partner then rails violently about women on line over this inability has surely answered their own question. They are celibate because they either consciously or subconsciously emanate disturbing messages that have women reaching for the mace (either spray or large medieval club) to ward them off.

      No one has a right to someone else in any respect and certainly not sex. Bampot I think was a perfectly adequate word.

    • Pogmothon says:

      Important and something which should be tackled.
      However their maths does not gel.
      Even trying for the largest figure and taking it from 1st April to 31 October this gives 7 months.
      638,505 averaged over 7 months gives 91,215 which would be a 15% (14.285% if you want to be pedantic) reduction in the average monthly visit rate.
      Trying to do good by misrepresenting the facts helps one, and only makes it more difficult to get the right thing done.

      • Capella says:

        I’m not very good at numbers, at 11pm on a Friday night, so I can’t really discuss the finer points of percentages. What is important IMO is that persecuting people for something they were born with and can’t change is very very bad and shouldn’t be tolerated in a decent society.

  20. craig murray says:

    Scottish Skier

    As you are perfectly well aware, Mivoice only provide the voting platform. They have no role in verifying the names and logins they are given are genuine SNP members. A mivoice source also apparently told the Mail they have been given 78,000 voters, whereas membership is 72,000.

    What the objection is to independent verification (which would be by sampling, and happens for example in trade union elections) I do not know. Politics does not run on blinnd faith.

    Cults of course do.

    • Eilidh says:

      So do other political parties do verification in elections if so please give me evidence of that. I was member of Unison for over 35 years had countless ballot papers sent me to me by post not once did I have to validate anything. My credit union sends me stuff by email link to vote on their AGM. I also obtained my payslips from a previous employers by email link. How on earth do you expect the Snp to verify every member or even a sample of them. I am not a member or the Independence Movement so do not try to infer most Independence supporters or people like me who have voted Snp for years are part of a cult

    • scottish_skier says:

      My membership is nobody’s business. I do not agree for any information on me and how I voted to be given to anyone outside the party. My preference is that the SNP don’t count me in official numbers ideally in the aim for preserving democracy. However, I appreciate the latter might not be possible, and they will have to say I at least exist as number XYX.

      I understand you are not a member(?), but just someone nosy who is anti-democratic, trying to interfere in a political party matter?

      This is an internal party election. It is not a public matter, but one for members. It will not decide who is FM of Scotland, just who the SNP puts forward for the competition to elect an FM. Whoever wins will stand against whoever the other parties put forward, and will need to win support from the bulk of their own MSPs and those of at least one other party. The new FM will have basically no executive powers, and all laws will be decided, as standard, by the will of the parliament and not them.

      In cults they don’t have elections and you don’t get to vote on your favorite candidate. May I ask who is the cult leader? Forbes? Reagan? Yousaf?

    • raineach says:

      Cwaig. This is more than rich coming from a man who has spent the last 3 years calling on people to leave the SNP and join whatever party you were a member of that afternoon. Insofar as this worked all you have done is to make more likely the result that you now condemn in advance. If you really want to help us then why don’t you stop talking for a few years; but if you do need to express yourself then carry on with your articles absolving Russia of crimes and go and nominate Putin for the Nobel peace prize

    • Hamish100 says:

      When a “source” tells the Mail how do you know the Mail didn’t just make it up?

      Asking for a friend.

      The childish name calling of “ cults” gets boring from the political opponents.

  21. yesindyref2 says:

    Just thinking about the various contributions of Michael Russell, Richard Walker, and various others, and it made me google for this:

    5 Characteristics of a Good Influencer

    #1: Authenticity.
    #2: Expert Content Creation.
    #3: Community Management.
    #4: Trust.
    #5: Passion.

    What’s actually missing is #0. Brand, or purpose, or target market. In other words what on earth is an influencer trying to achieve?

    Anyways, if your target market is Indy supporters OR those you’d like to covert to Indy, it seems to be incredibly stupid to antagonise half your target market by taking sides on an issue that is NOT Independence, as these two clearly are, and in the case of Walker, specifically are.

    And they would have the cheek to talk about “splits”.

    I used to respect both of them 😦

  22. yesindyref2 says:

    Bute House to close for repairs at start of new Scottish FM’s term

    Cry havoc and leg slip the dogs of conspiracies:

    “They’re having to dig up the missing £600,000”.

    Well, it is Friday for some 🙂

    • Handandshrimp says:

      Never any shortage of conspiracy theories. I was reading stuff on Twitter, a place I rarely go, and I found myself coming round full circle and thinking Sod it! Let’s see who is elected and what their Cabinet is like and take it from there. I’m not flouncing off if my preferred candidate doesn’t win. Of course, it may go wrong and we may have to find another leader in a year’s time. These things happen.

      There is no credible alternative vehicle for independence and given the stuff I’ve seen from Alba I wouldn’t consider heading in that direction. The Scottish Nonce Party Facebook thing was a bridge too far in my book. I wouldn’t presume to tell them who to vote for in their party and I certainly wouldn’t look to them for advice on who I vote for in mine.

      • Dr Jim says:

        Indeed, and how very dare anyone else even mention the name Alba unless it’s praise laden and uttered with bowed heads in holy reverence, but they can apparently criticize the bejesus out of everybody else’s party of choice with total impunity because they’re right and everybody else is not only wrong but infantile and stupid, the Daily Mail said so, so it must be true

        And we’re the cult?

  23. Capella says:

    Scotonomics make heroic efforts to explain Scotland’s economy. They have organised a Festival of Economics over the weekend 24th – 26th March in Dundee.

    Scotland’s first festival of economics comes to Dundee. Over 30 sessions covering every aspect of the Scottish economy.
    And for good measure, mixed in with comedy, art, and music. Economists, policymakers, academics, and politicians from across the globe and across the United Kingdom come together to discuss the economic challenges that we all face.

  24. scottish_skier says:

    ‘Mon the Welsh.

    One for W_S.

    Wales First Minister hails centuries-old relations in France, laments Brexit-fueled ‘fissures in UK’

    As the UK government schedules a vote for next week in parliament on a newly won deal with the EU concerning trade in Northern Island, the First Minister of Wales Mark Drakeford is in Paris to launch ‘Wales in France.’ He joins FRANCE 24’s Tom Burges Watson in the French capital to mark the occasion and discuss the “year-long celebration of cultural, business and sporting events” to deepen ties.

  25. scottish_skier says:

    I get the impression that the cupboard supporting the kitchen sink is now being thrown at the SNP in utter desperation.

    All the sleepers coming out at once etc. The nut job conspiracy theories of Salmondgate seem all rather sensible and mundane by comparison.

    We must be far closer to the final collapse of the UK than I thought.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      And you talk about “nut job conspiracy theories”?

      Good grief.

    • Eilidh says:

      Yeah the pretendy Indy/ Alba trolls on The National seem to be outnumbering the even remotely sensible folks therr these days. I see the blessed eck him that walks on water has been on Twitter spouting merde de torro. According to him loads more people than 30,000 have left the Snp. Well, one thing is for sure no matter how many members have left the Snp it seems they haven’t joined the Alba party although can the membership of the Alba party please be confirmed in the media. No! why not?

  26. Golfnut says:

    Historical perspective on SNP membership.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      The elephant in the room as they say, is this:

      where an SNP spokesperson lied – and another one is still lying. The only ones they’re fooling now are fools.

      THIS seems to me to be the most appropriate tune:

      Nellie the elephant pack her trunk
      And said goodbye to the circus
      Off she went with a trumpety trump
      Trump trump trump

      • scottish_skier says:

        Murray Foote is the Daily Record guy right?

        • Handandshrimp says:

          Yes, he was but I don’t think the door was shut to anyone on the road from No to Yes.

          However, it does look like there are changes afoot at SNP HQ. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. It may be we have a revitalised party with a new look and fresh impetus or a period of confusion and jostling for the direction of the party. A week is a long time in politics as a Mr Wilson once said.

          • scottish_skier says:

            No, it wasn’t. However, there’s little doubt Yes has picked up a few weather vanes along the way. You can tell these because when they think the wind might be changing, they start swinging around around again looking for excuses to explain this.

            My question about Foote was genuine enough. Thanks.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          Deflection has no chance of working. 13th February:

          The SNP said: “The 30,000 figure that was reported is not just flat wrong, it’s wrong by about 30,000.

          “As the SNP clearly stated when asked, fewer than 300 members have left the party over the period and they have been replaced by the same number of new members.

          “This story is both malicious and wholly inaccurate. Fortunately, few people are gullible enough to believe it.”

          So that was a lie. The other lie is in the article I linked.

          • scottish_skier says:

            Not sure what you mean about deflection? How can ‘the SNP’ say something. That’s 70k people apparently. I didn’t say the above so, no, the SNP didn’t say anything. That’s lie. Someone in the party said something here would be the truth yes?

            One or more people seem to have potentially have given someone else wrong figures. I’d be mildly interested in knowing who that was and how that came about.

            However, I’m old school innocent until proven guilty. Call me a democrat that way. I don’t assume someone is lying because someone told me this on the interweb. Instead, what happens is I trust the person trying to tell me this a bit less while I make some efforts to work out myself what the reality is.

            I was told that Salmond was 100% guilty. I assumed he was innocent – maybe a bit of a sleaze – until such time as he was found exactly that. Now I don’t trust anyone that tried to tell me he was guilty.

            I was assured Sturgeon had broken the ministerial code in some grand conspiracy against Salmond. I assumed she was innocent up until this was proven. I now trust nobody that tried to convince me she was guilty as they lied to me. I also don’t believe in any grand conspiracy as nobody had ever provided evidence of one.

            Likewise, those tasked with running the SNP finances are innocent of any impropriety around ‘earmarked’ funds handling until such time as one or more individuals (not ‘the party’ as a few out of 70k+ does not constitute the party) might be found to have done so.

            So we come to the election fairness… Again, until such time as someone proved the election for leader is unfair, then it’s fair, end of.

            As for the membership details, I would not be surprised if there are incorrect numbers going around, not least because actual numbers are secret to protect democracy and comply with the DPA. Then we have all sorts rumors being spread to try and sow seeks of doubt.

            I see a figure of 72k had been released, which is incredibly impressive for a party of the working class / low income voters in the middle of a massive cost of living crisis. That’s twice the size of the UK labour party (per capita) on figures from 2021 for them, i.e. before the cost of living crisis hit!

            I’m don’t give a rats ass if what someone might have said about figures, nor whether one individual told a porkie about the numbers. why would I? That would be stupid. I don;t judge a party by individuals. If my local MSP was lying to me all the time, that would be different.

            My wife has yet to vote. She’ll end up voting for the candidate that doesn’t do wild conspiracy theories, takes collective responsibility for the record of the SNP (which she sees a good in the circumstances), and doesn’t hand the British press soundbites to attack the party with. I think that’s a sensible approach.

      • Golfnut says:

        There is no way the SNP could have quantified the numbers leaving over a specific issue and that’s how Murray should have answered the question.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          There’s no point in anyone trying to pass this off as Murray’s fault. Thy moment he knew he’d been lied to, he quit – with honour. (whatever he did previously over the Vow).

          And it’s Pete Wishart – Pete Wishart of all people – who wants an inquiry.

          Pete Wishart for goodness sakes!

          • Golfnut says:

            That was his job, and as for rent a gob Whishart !
            Are there questions to be asked, of course, why are membership numbers not readily to hand, they should be part of any monthly senior management meeting tracking numbers, revenue and issues identified that party policies may cause decline to either, and then addressed and that’s not hindsight that’s basic management.

          • scottish_skier says:

            I don’t see anyone trying to pass the incorrect numbers as his fault. He seems to have been given the wrong numbers by someone.

            Personally, I wouldn’t leave my job just because another individual in my organisation gave me some incorrect figures. It’s the person that gave the wrong figures that needs to explain this, not all the other folk that work there.

            Will be interesting to see what new position he takes up.

  27. yesindyref2 says:

    One last thing, that response about

    As the SNP clearly stated when asked, fewer than 300 members have left the party over the period and they have been replaced by the same number of new members.

    was reported on the 13th February, and the SNP had 4 weeks to put out a press release “No, that’s not right, 30,000 left the party”. They didn’t, they let the lie lie.

    So even if the “spokesperson” got it wrong and the SNP didn’t lie by commission, they lied by omission.

    Time indeed for Honest Forbes to clean house.

  28. Eilidh says:

    Uh huh and let’s see how many of the electorate stick around to vote for Fran or Anna (Kate or Ash) or the bestest boy Humza when whichever of them becomes FM and a real election takes place. What do you mean by clean house ?

    • yesindyref2 says:

      The lies told by SNP HQ are not the fault of the 3 candidates, and the SNP HQ would have got away with it but for those 3 candidates demanding accurate membership numbers. But as I said above:

      Personally I think all this is good for the SNP, it shows their human side. I seriously do forecast a revival in membership once the leadership election is settled.

      First of all they have to clean up their act, and clear out all the liars and those who allow lies to stand.

      The SNP has become dishonest, it has to go back to being honest.

      • Hamish100 says:

        Snp includes its members so please don’t do the Tory Labour trick of tarring us all with the same brush.

        Now compare with Boris Johnson, Truss, Rees mogg, Starmer kicking out labour members , Lib Dem and austerity…….

        As for all the hype many members have voted so the attacks is to influence non snp members.

        • scottish_skier says:

          so please don’t do the Tory Labour trick of tarring us all with the same brush.

          Erm aye. The classic unionist trick is to talk about ‘the SNP’ doing something bad when it actually might at most might be a couple of people out of 72k members.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          This is just counterproductive whataboutery.

          I don’t care about the UK Tories, Labour or LibDems – they’re not going to bring us Independence.

          I care about the SNP because they are our only hope of Independence.

          Those who are not currently YES aren’t going to say, yes, the SNP are sh1t, but oh look at the Tories, Labour and LibDems. They’re just going to stay NO.

        • Eilidh says:

          Exactly!! and the farce continues

          Would love to know which NEC members have been talking to the Herald. A change of Chief Executive may be good idea in the long run but the words witch hunt may also be implied to what is going on at the moment

      • scottish_skier says:

        What do you mean by SNP HQ? Are you saying all the staff there are liars?

  29. yesindyref2 says:

    I get completely fed up with untruths from wherever they come, and here’s another one. Alex Salmond is claiming that in his time as FM the membership rose from 8,000 to 85,000. He formally resigned to the Queen as FM on 18th September 2014.

    BUT he announced his resignation on 19th September 2014, at around 16.15 at a press conference. At which time the membership was 25,500.

    It is extremely economical with the truth to try to claim that the huge increase in members – 60,000 – that occurred between those two dates was down to him, he was the caretaker FM, with Sturgeon already expected to be his successor. And as he said:

    There’s nane ever fear’d that the truth should be heard, But they whom the truth would indite.

    To quote Burns then totally ignore the quote is crass.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      He formally resigned to the Queen as FM on 18th September 2014

      Wrong flaming month – it was 18th November 2014.

      It was a tiring but successful day.

  30. Daisy Adams says:

    On Nov 15th 2014 Peter Murrell posted a figure of 85,272 on twitter. Alex wasn’t far off the mark.

    • Eilidh says:

      Most of the new members joined after he announced he was resigning that is the point. I wonder how many have joined or left since Nicola announced she would be resigning as leader/FM

  31. Bob Lamont says:

    The bunkum flying in this latest media propaganda tactic over SNP member numbers is astonishing, but the intent is quite clearly the ole torches and pitchforks game.
    – Foote’s answer was to a question over numbers quitting the party in response to the GRR media and AJ fiasco, an estimate was provided by the administration, .
    – The membership numbers requested by the candidates were originally to get a handle on numbers using paper votes versus electronic, although Regan had a strange notion contact details should be given.
    – In the National article Salmond leads with the 30,000 drop attributable to “preoccupied with gender recognition”, but then goes on to say “what we’ll see in a very short period of time is a collapse of SNP membership of 30,000 or more”, ie he predicts ca45,000 members 🙄 irrespective of who becomes party leader or FM.

    Curious how the numbers had changed I found this House of Commons Library Research Briefing published 31 August 2022 – “This briefing brings together the latest available data on political party membership in Great Britain”.
    What made curious reading was “The SNP has around 72,000 members, as of March 2023 (reported by the BBC). This was down from around 104,000 members, as of December 2021 (Electoral Commission data)”.
    How exactly did a Research paper published in 2022 include “as of March 2023 (reported by the BBC)”, and the SNP be the ONLY party entry to mention a rise or fall – All the rest are 2021 or 2022 figures.
    There is a distinct whiff of Eau de Latrine about this, made in London…

    This from Wikipedia –
    The SNP experienced a large surge in membership following the 2014 Scottish independence referendum.[82] In 2013 the party’s membership stood at just 20,000,[83] but that number had swelled to over 100,000 by 2015.[84] Annual accounts submitted by the party to the Electoral Commission showed the SNP to have over 119,000 members in 2021.[85] By the end of 2021, the party reported that it had 103,884 members.[29] Membership then continued to fall: to 85,000 at the end of 2022, and to 72,186 in March 2023.[1]

    I fully accept some will have fallen out with the party amid a febrile propaganda war, but there was also Covid and belt-tightening galore to add to membership woes.

    With still the largest membership per head of population of any political party in the UK, the SNP are a long way from “collapse”…

    • Tatu3 says:

      Well said. The other parties would give their eye teeth for membership numbers like the SNP has.

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Agreed, however the point remains this “row” is a media fabrication, and HMG are colluding in it by altering previous publication. Additionally how on earth can the BBC or AS attribute this to the GRR when the vast majority didn’t give a toss?
        The numbers have declined, but the reason the media are selling it as “membership had fallen to 72,186 from the 104,000 it had two years ago” is to derive a bigger number. The numbers published are
        Dec 2021 104,000
        Dec 2022 85,000, -19,000
        Mar 2023 72,000, -13,000

        Now bear in mind the financial pressures folks have been under, and just coming out of winter, many won’t be able to justify party membership when the have a humungous leccy bill arriving.
        It’s all much more complicated than the story preferred by the propagandists….

        • Alec Salmond, the champion of safe spaces for women.
          I’ll just leave that there.
          The national clearly doesn’t like the prospect of Kate Forbes as SNP leader.
          Wonder why.
          Ash regan is an Alba Common Weal plant.
          We all know that.
          She even references them in her fables ‘constitution. nonsense.
          BY the cringe, they hate forbes, don’t they?

  32. Hamish100 says:

    What is clear the snp has more members now then when Salmond lost in the independence referendum and resigned.

    As for the “vows” ex daily record editor (there was some lies there) I suspect he knew his number was up and would have left anyway.
    A refreshed hq and senior team will not be a bad thing.

  33. Dr Jim says:

    There’s a dent in the SNP car, the car’s a write off

    There’s yer British media headline, and what’s incredibly amusing about this is they immediately talk about Labour as being the “natural successor” to the throne of Scotland’s politics

    Maybe the British media wear different spectacles than I do, or have completely different brains to the rest of us, but why on earth would the at least 50% of Scotland who do not want to be governed by England suddenly change our minds and vote for an English political party like Labour, only to reverse everything we believe in and everything we know the English Labour party stands for
    I mean it took us long enough to get a political party strong enough to help us rid ourselves of Labour’s English politics working for the Tories against Scotland, why on earth would we want to bring them back again just because the only real Scottish political party we have got a prang in the rear end of the car

    The English Labour party worked tirelessly day and night to rid themselves of the most popular people’s choice of leader they ever had when they ousted Jeremy Corbyn from his own party against the wishes of the new hundreds of thousands of supporters he had drawn to their party, and why did they do such a crazy thing? he wasn’t bloody Tory enough to sell to the majority of England, that’s why

    So yeah the SNP got a dent in the car, well I hate to break it to the British media and the supporters of the English Labour party but we won’t be asking for a lift in Sir Kier Starmer’s rebranded jalopy that failed its MOT in Scotland a long time ago

    The dent in the SNPs car will buff out and it’ll be back on the road next week

    • yesindyref2 says:

      The dent in the SNPs car will buff out and it’ll be back on the road next week

      Yes it will, but not while there are people staring admiringly at the car with the dent in it and saying “Oh look at that perfect car in perfect condition, and look at all those old wrecks in the scrappie!

      It’ll only get fixed when people are honest enough – like you – to say oh dear, there’s a dent in the car, take it round to the body shop, and we’re going to need a new bumper cos the old one fell off. Drive safe.

      • scottish_skier says:

        The dent seems to be mainly to just one person at the moment. The party isn’t dented, much as the British/English press want to make out. Tarring 72k people with the actions of a few just doesn’t work. Has the opposite effect normally.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          All that hard work sweeping it all under the carpet.

          You’re going to need a new brush.

          And a bigger carpet.

          • scottish_skier says:

            Brushing what?

            I honestly have no idea what you are on about. I’m interested in independence and not a lot of whataboutery over one person who is not even an elected rep, but a party employee. Or was.

            Folks are weirdly obsessed with PM about as much as they are NS.

            It’s good to see how wrong they were about him. Seems he’s very honorable.

  34. scottish_skier says:

    Ok, so I read this morning that ‘the SNP’ are completely innocent, but it seems one person working for them has some questions to answer.

    Yes, that seems to be the actual truth. Can’t say I see any reason not to keep voting for my local candidate and the party. In fact I’m more determined to now. That’s always how I react when people try to tell me what to think / do. 🙂

    My daughter is going to join incidentally. Thanks unionists for pushing her to get around to this!

    • Tatu3 says:

      On the Yes Stirling fb page lots of comments saying how they are now (re)joining the SNP or they know of people who are (re)joining the SNP , since all this membership collapse nonsense

  35. Capella says:

    One obvious reason to keep the steep fall in membership a secret until at least Thursday is to boost the campaign of the “continuity” candidate and blunt the campaign of the “continuity won’t cut it” candidates.

    Most SNP members vote in the first 48 hours, or so I’ve read. So it’s understandable that two of the candidates were calling for numbers to be published.

    Humza Yousaf is now tweeting that a shake up in HQ has always been central to his campaign. Really? I’ve watched several hustings and missed that bit.

    Still – at least the need for transparency is now accepted.

    • scottish_skier says:

      I’d think it was because it’s not the British/English press’s business, and it would just be used against them as it is being.

      The silly thing is, that to be twice the size (per capita) of the UK Labour party in 2021 – well before the cost of living crisis – is nothing short of miraculous for a party which gets the majority of it’s vote (and more so than any other party) from those in lower income brackets.

      But people will make stuff like the loss is all GRR or ‘not delivering indy’ with no evidence whatsoever for this.

      • Capella says:

        Surely such a fall in membership will have been the subject of some scrutiny? If it is the cost of living crisis or Covid then this will affect all parties. As a member I would like to know why people have resigned and I expect the membership secretary to have investigated the cause. What on earth do parties hire political advisers for?

        • Eilidh says:

          Doesn’t it ask the reason when you actually resign but I am guessing many people just let their memberships lapse due to lack of money or interest. I and many people like me fo not do auto renewal on anything

          • Dr Jim says:

            I stopped my direct debit to the children’s lottery to save some cash even though I’ve been paying in since it began, I guess there have been folk who gave up their membership of political parties for the same financial reasons

            And of course folk die, we probably lost a bunch of my generation through Covid as well, so the desire for the English media to create the narrative it’s all about what they say it is will be seen through fairly quickly I reckon

            I’m sure there will be a selection of genuine reasons and not all the malicious piffle the media and their pals like to push

          • deelsdugs says:

            I spoke with them at HQ some time ago as I felt my membership had reached its end – too much development/roads/no ministerial response. However, I decided it was better to be able to have a say than cease with not just my membership, but also my daughter’s.
            I suspect that like Eilidh, lapses with payments, insufficient funds or simply an impulsive strop to cancel has led to the decrease.

          • Capella says:

            I don’t know if they ask people who resign as I haven’t resigned. I think if I do then I would email my Branch Sec to explain the reason why, specially if I was angry about anything. I wouldn’t go quietly! I’ve already let them know what I think about their GRR bill, Hate Crime Bill and Women on Public Boards bill at every opportunity during consultations and by directly emailing every one of them in Holyrood.
            So they know.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      As posted upthread, the fall in membership is 19,000 from the published figure of 104,000 in 2021 (-18%), and 13,000 since the 2022 figure of 85,000(-15%), the “steep fall” is a media creation derived from using the 2021 figure and the newly release figure.
      It was for the NEC to decide whether to release the information, whether that constitutes “a secret” is for members to assess, and change the rules should they so decide.

      The cost of living crisis and energy bills are just two reasons I can think of for folks putting off renewal.

      With Murrell now resigned, perhaps normal service can resume, but I’ve no doubt another “row” will be along in a minute…

  36. Capella says:

    Looks like Peter Murrell will be next to announce retirement.

    Peter Murrell called on for exit date or face a no confidence motion

    THE SNP internal body has asked Peter Murrell to confirm his exit date as chief executive by the end of the day – or face a no confidence motion.
    The National understands several members of the National Executive Committee have spoken to Murrell about a committment from him for when he will leave his internal role.
    Murrell has been chief executive of the SNP for more than 20 years.
    One member of the NEC described the news as “movement” on the agreed position of members that it is time for Murrell to go and internal politics to change.
    One senior member of the NEC told The Herald: “We have the numbers. There’s not a hope in hell that Peter can survive a no confidence motion.”

    • yesindyref2 says:

      From the Herald: “Peter Murrell announces his resignation as SNP chief executive”.

      “Responsibility for the SNP’s responses to media queries about our membership number lies with me as Chief Executive. While there was no intent to mislead, I accept that this has been the outcome. I have therefore decided to confirm my intention to step down as Chief Executive with immediate effect.

      I had not planned to confirm this decision until after the leadership election. However as my future has become a distraction from the campaign I have concluded that I should stand down now, so the party can focus fully on issues about Scotland’s future. The election contest is being run by the National Secretary and I have had no role in it at any point.

      Sad, but now the new era can begin.

      Also from the Herald:

      “Forbes commits to independent audit of SNP finances and membership”.

      Time to get the real show on the road – Independence.

    • Handandshrimp says:

      We live in interesting times. The next few weeks could see a revitalisation of the party or pointless splitting. I don’t know if these movements are because the indications are that Forbes is winning and as a new broom things will be swept clean or what.

      I still haven’t quite got my head around why Nicola stepped down so suddenly and without really preparing the ground for a succession. No one in the party was challenging her position. However, I get that 9 years at the top is a long time. Few leaders go on past that sort of duration (except for the ones that dare not step down lest the buried bodies be found).

  37. Hamish100 says:

    Why would someone from the NEC talk to the Herald?

    They should also consider their position.

  38. Old Pete says:

    Peter Murrell is gone, should make the “Bath man” and his acolytes very happy.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      An honourable man put party and Independence before self.

      • keaton says:

        That’s rather generous of you. He was told he had to resign or he’d be sacked.

        • scottish_skier says:

          It’s good to have someone on the inside party to such discussions!

        • Eilidh says:

          Uh huh and was a vote of confidence against him held. No!!!

          • keaton says:

            No, because he resigned.

            But I suppose we don’t know for sure. Another possibility is: the story that the NEC would sack him unless he resigned today was made up, either by the leaker or the Herald. Then he coincidentally decided to resign today for unrelated reasons.

            Is there a third possibility I’ve missed?

            • scottish_skier says:

              I suppose we don’t know for sure.

              Aye. Hence no point in imagining stuff. I personally leave that to the nut job conspiracy theorists.

              Pete M seems to have f’d up a bit. Pete M resigns a bit earlier than might be expected given NS situation in response. Whoopie doo.

              Event of little to no significance in the wider scheme of things. I’ve lost count now of the number of times I’ve lived through the ‘end of the SNP / indy now’. Each time this happens, support for indy becomes bigger. My daughter just joined them in response, which was nice.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      The man in ‘the Bath chair’, more like …

  39. Handandshrimp says:

    Well we are in a new era indeed. Let’s hope level heads prevail and we quickly get the ship back on course. Who knows perhaps some who have left will consider returning to the fold.

  40. scottish_skier says:

    Good to see Peter M do the honorable thing here. Seems he personally screwed up and it has given the British nationalist dog a bone.

    unionists should learn from this. If only more of then would step down for similar mistakes.

  41. Eilidh says:

    Well I had decided this before I heard Peter Murrell had resigned and despite the fact that in many ways it goes against all my principles and up to yesterday I said I had no intention of doing this. I have just joined the Snp. I don’t care that I will not get a vote in the leadership election as wouldn’t have voted for any of the three of them anyway.I don’t want to see the party I have supported since 1979 being destroyed from within or without because of unionist interlopers and other trouble makers and the vengeance of one bitter old man. Whether I will enjoy being a member remains to be seen

    • Dr Jim says:

      Welcome Eilidh

    • Capella says:

      Well done Eilidh! Welcome to the independence party.

    • Handandshrimp says:

      Welcome Eilidh, I hope you feel at home within the party.

      These have been strange days but I feel the conspiracy nuts and almost fanatical SNP haters have overplayed their hand. I was a bit disheartened by all that has happened in the last couple of days but I think it is time to dig in and fight this through.

      • ayeinskye says:

        I am an ex-member of the SNP, I am now in ALBA, and I voted SNP1, and Alba 2 last Holyrood, I would do so again, Kate Forbes is my MSP one that I have canvassed for, and with her, and yes I would do so again if asked, and I genuinely believe that once this bonfire is over, and the last few remnants of the poison that has infected the party over the past few years have left leadership positions that the SNP can rise like the proverbial phoenix and with the right leadership manning or womaning the tiller, it can get back to its proper job, and that is to lead Scotland, alongside ALL other independence supporting parties to independence.
        Too many carpetbaggers got into positions they shouldn’t have done, lists were gerrymandered, and members were silenced and had no recourse to complain but that can all now change.
        Don’t see us Alba members as enemies or opponents, we want the same thing that the SNP grassroots wants, and that is to see an independent Scotland, all else pales in comparison, let’s get indy done and then get the sort of Scotland we want where Westminster cant use S35s or whatever else was written into the Scotland act.

        I remember having great chats with Dr. Jim, SS, and others before we started having political differences at the direction Scotland was being taken, I have my reasons(valid) why I left the party, as the party left me, and it got to a time that very few people would hold leadership to account, the ringfenced £600k, the Alex Salmond affair, GRR all had a hand in my choice and I stand by it, but I extend my hand in friendship, let us as the Blues Brothers once stated “Get the band back on the road” the road to an independent Scotland

        • You are the enemy, ayeinskye.
          Of that there is no doubt.
          You tried to destroy the SNP, which is the only viable political party to dissolve the Union.
          I have read the reams of bile from the Alec Salmond train set, Common Weal, and the sad old bloggers who back up this clear assault on the Movement.
          The thought of Salmond, MacAskill, McAlpine and Sheridan being anywhere near Holyrood is an outrage.
          I’m ALBA but I support Forbes?
          Don’t think so.

          • ayeinskye says:

            Difference is, Jack, I like Kate, she is a good kind person, as are her parents, aunts and uncles, yes I have met them all over the years, when Dave Thompson announced he was retiring, Kate was my choice then also, see where this is going Jack, I was a fundamental, the type who wanted independence now, still am, but I also want good representation in Holyrood, and Kate is that person, I take no truck with her religion, as I don’t care if someone support Jesus, Jehovah, Allah or Buddha, it is up to them, what I do support is an MSP who has done plenty for her constituents, inc members of my own family, and I will repay that in kind.
            Trust is earned and Kate has got my trust, and I really hope enough members of the SNP vote her into position as leader and then FM, but I suppose we might see abstentions from parties allied to the movement

          • AAD says:

            The Independence movement is bigger than parties and personalities. There is a chance now to go forward and unite for our common aim. I am a long time member of the SNP and I had to resign because I did not like the direction the SNP was being taken in.
            However, as a YES member and Independence supporter I will work with whoever supports Independence.
            Can we not agree on this?

        • Dr Jim says:

          I’ve no doubt in my mind there are genuine supporters of the Alba party who think they’re on a mission to independence, but they are led by a man who is the most toxic ex politician with the lowest ratings of any British politician who as long as he is the leader of that invented personal revenge party will remain exactly where he is in the eyes of the Scottish public

          Politics is perception, and the people of Scotland are not blind, nor are they deaf when they recall the words of Salmond’s own lawyer in the hope of mitigating legal decisions against him
          Scotland doesn’t like him and many even despise him for getting himself into trouble by his own hand then subsequently trying to throw the blame of his lot onto Nicola Sturgeon by accusing her of some sort of secret conspiracy with a whole bunch of women by making them accuse him of the the behaviour he actually admitted to

          There’s very much more going right back from 2004 to 2014 to land at Alex Salmond’s door, it’s not over yet and he knows it, but his supporters don’t, they think they’re on that holy mission to independence, they’re not and they never were

          The people don’t get to know everything but they see through a lot

      • Melb Don says:

        Totally agree about the fanatical SNP haters, It is near impossible to read the National now. The comments have been taken over by a small band of whom I believe to be Alba type sycophants and others opposed to either the SNP or a Scotland leaving the United Kingdom.

    • scottish_skier says:

      Welcome. My daughter is joining this evening. Recent events have encouraged her to.

      She’ll be 16 later this year.

      • scottish_skier says:

        Ok, SNP has another member.

        Thanks BBC etc!

        She told me she’d watched some ppbs by the Tories, Labour etc and all they did was ‘hate on the SNP’. Chip off the old block it seems!

  42. Dr Jim says:

    Maybe Peter Murrell left because as the drummer his wife the lead singer had just packed it in and it was no fun playing in the band without her

    There are always fantastical rumours when a long time band splits up, but sometimes it’s just that simple, they’d had enough

    • Handandshrimp says:

      I would imagine that they have discussed the future post Nicola being FM and stepping down may well have been on the cards regardless. They are young enough to be looking at other options. Nicola may well end up working for an international body.

    • Tatu3 says:

      That’s more or less what I’ve just said to my husband. They probably discussed it and decided what with Nicola standing down and “retired”, then it would seem silly for him to keep working.
      I wonder that now she has no party ties and no one saying who she can visit or not, or whether she would need a “minder” or not, Nicola can now really start showcasing Scotland worldwide.

  43. Capella says:

    There’s an interview with Kate Forbes at the bottom of this article so I haven’t archived. She says independence will be straightforward compared to BREXIT.

  44. Robert Hughes says:

    HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHA ! Even now , unbelievably , you lot are still in desperate denial . Rather than have the strength and honesty to admit you’ve been wrong for years , you’re all thrashing about looking for someone to blame eg WOS , Craig Murray , ALBA , you even have the nerve to blame Alex Salmond , a man who done more to further the cause of Independence than anyone alive , the victim of vicious political pygmies not fit to tie his shoelaces ; rather than the worthless Sturgeon/Murrell cabal who anyone with an iota of clear perception KNOWS are the culprits responsible for destroying the SNP as a credible Political Party . All you wilfully blind apologists for corruption & failure have a share in this debacle too . Wear it

    • Handandshrimp says:

      WOS is no longer about independence, it is primarily focussed on gender politics (whatever that may be) I don’t think Craig Murray has done anything untoward and Alba are politically irrelevant and Salmond was already in retirement when the accusations flew.

      If we can’t make the SNP work then independence as a political goal is dead in the water for years.

      What would have the ordinary SNP members do, build from here or give up? They are the dominant party in Scotland. Regardless of what ills you may lay at the ex leader’s door Sturgeon has built a strong base. There are worse places to start from.

      • Robert Hughes says:

        ” WOS is no longer about independence, it is primarily focussed on gender politics ”

        Christ Almighty ! Here’s a biscuit , take it . You’ve def earned it for that comment .

        Who/what is it that’s been – not ” focused ” , but absolutely taken-over , by Gender Politics if not the SNP of recent years ?

        Stu Campbell , like many others , saw clearly that this was always going to blow-up in the faces of those relentlessly promoting it once the public became more aware of the implications ; severely damaging the SNP & the cause of Independence in the process . Lo and behold …….carnage has ensued .

        Calling people ” Bigots ” ” Transphobes ” ” Misogynists ” simply because they don’t agree with your views is the last resort of the petulant * progressive * : and the last straw for * ordinary * people whose opinions are just as VALID as anyone else’s .

        • scottish_skier says:

          Erm, polling from WoS had 6+ in 10 wanting the GRR bill to be pursued, with ~40% of these saying it should be pursued as is vs ~60% with some amendments. That’s epic support for it, and with questions designed to lead people to the opposite conclusion; something WoS has been found guilty of in his polling after an MRS investigation.

          By all means get your Scottish news from the south of England if you like, but I prefer Scottish sources myself.

        • Eilidh says:

          Why are you listening to a Tory voter who has lived in England for years. The only thing Stu Campbell cares about is his own ego and you mugs giving him money. Misogyny and misinformation is his game not ours

        • Handandshrimp says:

          It isn’t a topic I spend much time discussing and it rarely gets a mention at my local branch meetings. I don’t think SNP members are as obsessed by the matter as you seem to think. WOS is however very focussed on the issue, not just in Scotland but also the whole of the UK and wider afield in the Twittersphere, which would seem to be the reason for the shift to the Tories as the only party likely to not include a GRA in their manifesto.

          I don’t have much time for the ridiculous and often unpleasant comments made by some Trans activists but they don’t vex me much either. We have a horrendous cost of living crisis, climate change, Brexit, war in Europe and an increasingly reactionary government in Westminster that shamelessly favours the wealthy. To say this one fringe issue takes precedence is, in my book, odd. However, everybody has their hobby horse. For the average Daily Express reader it is apparently Meghan Windsor. It takes all sorts.

          I hope it is a nice biscuit though. I do like a chocolate ginger.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Well you just opened my eyes there and I see the truth, off you pop and convince the other 50% of Scotland now

      Frank, get the door

    • scottish_skier says:

      This is quite a lot of wishful thinking.

    • Bob Agassi says:

      I’m lost, what are we blaming WOS, Murray, ALBA and Salmond for ? The SNP has delivered what it was mandated to do and that is an indyref was set for October but that is being blocked by the dark undemocratic forces in London so what is it we have to wear ?

      • scottish_skier says:

        I personally think WoS, Murray, Alba etc have been of great benefit to the SNP. They put a hell of a lot of effort in ahead of May 2021, helping the SNP get their highest share of the vote ever (constituency) in a Scottish national election. 🙂

    • Capella says:

      I blame my parents.

    • Eilidh says:

      Well I am so glad I joined the Snp today, part of the reason I did it was to spite obnoxious wee nyaff’s like you but you keep up supporting your wee diddy party because you and the sainted Alex will not fool the electorate most of whom have nothing but contempt for Alex Salmond

    • grizebard says:

      Hi, it’s hard to know where even to start with all this, so when you get back to Earth from Planet Paranoid, do message us again. Maybe you’ll make more sense then. (But somehow I doubt it.)

  45. yesindyref2 says:

    Meanwhile “Jeremy Hosking blames Lorna Slater as he drops bid for Kinloch Castle

    Bye now, off you go for a lock-in somewhere else with your pal Nigel Fandango. No rum for you laddie.

  46. scottish_skier says:

    Am I OK being being an Irish national tonight? 😉

  47. Dr Jim says:

    So Michael Russell steps in as interim CEO of the SNP on a voluntary basis and within 45 minutes Tory list MSP Sandesh Gulhane complains and says he should stand down
    Hilarious yes, helpful? well he did not understand what he just did with that comment, because following this and accompanied by the outpourings of Alba abuse directed towards the SNP there has been a surge in online membership applications today

    So a big thank you to the Tories Labour Lib Dem and Alba parties for all their concern and assistance in this matter

    Frank will get the door

    • Handandshrimp says:

      I don’t think I have ever heard of Gulhane.

      • Dr Jim says:

        He’s the Tory doctor who can be seen on TV constantly complaining about the understaffed badly run NHS but is never seen doing any actual doctoring
        It’s a bit like Sarwar complaining about the amount of private dentistry in Scotland who was himself a private dentist

        You can recognise the dentists who want to be private by the very long gaps in the amount of time between sending for you for treatment, then when you get there they want to talk to you about treatment that you could have the next time they send for you, but you don’t get any that day, and so on and so on until you twig they’re trying to sell you a private dental insurance plan under which they’ll treat you immediately, but until you do sign up they’ll just keep sending for you but doing nothing until you eventually give up and go away to an actual NHS dentist

        Some of you may have noticed your local NHS dentist practice changing hands recently and your dentists replaced by very nice chaps who look and sound exactly like Anas Sarwar who really want to professionally assist you into taking out a low cost dental plan under which your treatment will be almost instant, but not today

        Some folk might accuse me of racism, but I’s not, it’s financial exploitation using the cover of the NHS to garner and collect clients, basically bullying poorer people using the pain and discomfort of their dental health problems to blackmail them into parting with what little money they have

        Ask Anas Sarwar, he understands how it works while he’s telling you it’s the fault of the Scottish or indeed the UK government, but not his or anybody else’s fault for exploiting the loopholes in pretending to be an NHS dentist when they’re not

        And done

        • Eilidh says:

          Well in my case the NHS Dental Surgery I have been going to for 40 years of my life is going fully private from April. So I either pay £17 a month for a dental plan or pay £38 every 6 months for a check up and £42 twice yearly for the hygienist .£38 for dentist to poke around my mouth for 5 minutes and I haven’t actually needed to see a hygienist since the 1980s. So no more free dental check up funded by the Scottish govt for me. Can’t get another NHS dentist within several miles of where I live. I have noticed dentists often these days have something in common with Dick Turpin – they both wore masks. Nice to know the Scottish tax payer paid the fees of many dentists to get their degrees for many of them then to fleece the tax payers

          • Legerwood says:

            Dentist are not the sharpest tacks in the box. Their move to all private dentistry is being taken during a cost of living crisis when people are counting every penny. So what do you think they will cut when it comes to the choice of food&heat or an expensive trip to the dentist? Things might go back to the time in Scotland when it was considered to be a good 21st birthday present to be given the money to get all your teeth out – or a wedding present – whichever came first.

            Currently 95% of Scots are registered with an NHS dentist so there is an assured income for dentists but no they think ‘private’ is the way to go.

            • Eilidh says:

              I wonder how many folk will be registered with an NHS dentist by the end of this year. It seems a lot of dental surgeries in West of Scotland are becoming fully private in April alone

              • Alex Montrose says:

                I was offered a choice of a private dental plan at £25 per month, or remain on the NHS list, so I’m thinking that if my dentist gets enough private clients, I’ll be looking for another, or get emergency service at Dundee.

              • Legerwood says:

                They seem to have been accelerating the move to private dentistry under cover of the pandemic. My dentist still does NHS work but they try to pressure people into going private. My dentist tried it with me – didnae work. A crown had fallen out during lockdown. Once they opened up I went along to get it fixed. He had a look and said I would not be able to get an appointment for 6 mths but if I went private then I could get an appointment the following week. I said I would wait. He was really taken aback by that.

        • Pogmothon says:

          Ach! ah thouct it wis were the posh busses went along the east lothian coast.

        • Bob Lamont says:

          Dentistry always had a private side, but the insurance aspect is a relatively recent scam where the insurer always makes a profit, the dentist gets a cut, and rarely if ever does the client gain anything overall..

          All the Tories had to do in their grand scheme of dismantling Attlee’s NHS was limit the number of professionals being trained to create a shortage, and guess where we are now…

          I was reminded of this HMG scam recently by a discussion surrounding the NHS (I can’t recall the exact detail but it was recent) where it was revealed that a London based training organisation were faced with a dilemma where their ambitions to set up a training centre in Carlisle where there was a pressing shortage, was thwarted by HMG having placed a limit on the numbers trained, such that what Carlisle gained, London etc had to lose.

          These are the Tory shenanigans writ large – Deplore and cry false tears over a situation they themselves have created and continue to promote.

      • Isn’t that the beach where Jock Wallace took his Rangers squad for pre-season training?
        Tam the Bam knows.
        I’ll get ma coat.

  48. Old Pete says:

    “Bath man” and his unionist acolytes have been anti Scottish Independence since his homophobic spat with Kezia Dugdale.
    Continually attacking anything SNP, probably taken the “Queens shilling” and leading his adoring morons against the “cause” Maybe Prince Charlie will give him a big dong to stuff up his unionist a**e, thanking him for all his vile unionist propaganda.

    Saor Alba, especially from the interfering anti-Scottish propaganda oozing out from distant Somerset England.
    Just saying !

  49. Bob Lamont says:

    Having caught up with the C4 coverage of the latest media SNP “scandal”, I almost fell off the chair laughing during Cathy Newman’s interview with Lesley Riddoch, where Cathy let loose a Freudian slip over which of the leadership candidates were best placed “…to turn this around and you know re-extinguish those eh that dream of independence…”
    Re-extinguish ?

    I’m certain whatever ails the SNP’s internal mechanics will be remedied in due course, but nothing grinds my gears more than the blind acceptance in England that political parties dictate what the electorate think.
    More than half of England support Scots having their indy referendum, and similar over reversing Brexit, yet both principal parties say no and this is accepted as “democracy”.

    Scots have a different perspective on democracy, that it is for the people to dictate what political parties pursue, not the tail wagging the dog.

    That’s why indy support continues to climb irrespective of party member numbers, irrespective of who is charge of political parties, irrespective of being informed on a daily basis of SG failure via the BBC et al..

    UK democracy is as dead as it’s politics – There is no “re-extinguish” on the cards in Scotland.

    • Capella says:

      Re-ignite, Cathy, re-ignite that dream of independence. I think the word “dream” is not quite right either. It’s more of an aspiration or goal. Which candidate will refocus on the goal of independence?

  50. scottish_skier says:

    ‘Person planning to hand over the reigns in a few weeks hands over reigns a few weeks earlier scandal’.

    My guess is Foote new his time was up too given Pete M was planning to step down along with Sturgeon.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Aye, Foote jumped before he was pushed…
      Craig Hoy’s “A fish rots from the head down – and the same applies to the SNP” is being quoted everywhere in the media, as if he’s of some importance rather a List MSP nobody directly voted for.

      The one saving grace of Foote and Murrell having resigned is it leaves the propagandists high and dry for bogey men, it’ll take years to develop a new target….

  51. Hamish100 says:

    Surely the anointed Salmond, devoid of all sin and thick skin should take over? No cringe allowed.

    Asking for a delusional albanist.

  52. Capella says:

    The National interviews Irish Professor John Doyle on reworking GERS in the same way that he showed GERW was far too pessimistic about the economy of an independent Wales.

    ‘Certainty’ independent Scotland’s deficit lower than GERS suggests

    “By and large, the methodology is broadly applicable because it’s asking the same questions – would you on day one of an independent Scotland be paying the pensions of those who had paid in to pension contributions, with that money in essence treated by the Treasury as taxation over the years? Would you be liable for a share of UK debt? Would you have a ­nuclear deterrence in proportion to the UK nuclear deterrence, and other things around how tax and ­expenditure is calculated.

    “The issues are identical in ­Scotland as it would be in the case of Ireland or Wales.”

  53. Hamish100 says:


    I wish you could give a 24hr delay before giving freebies to those who don’t buy the Sunday National!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🫣

    • Capella says:

      I only post one or two articles Hamish and it could be argued that encourages people to take out a subscription – which is on offer at the moment – when they see how interesting some articles are!

      FLASH SALE | Just ONE pound for the first three months of the next First Minister’s tenure

      • Bob Lamont says:

        “FLASH SALE | Just ONE pound for the first three months of the next First Minister’s tenure”
        Better that the subscription offered by the Times when Truss became PM, and she only lasted 50 days…

        • Capella says:

          I’ve got a three month free subscription to the Telegraph because I wanted to read Suzanne Moore, the journalist who was forced out of the Guardian for being gender critical. Anyway – most of their articles are quite comically mad and their comments section are full of “Disgusted, Bognor Regis” types. But I like Matt’s cartoons.

        • Legerwood says:

          Ochoa silly boy. Do you not realise you could have bought a bank for a pound…then paid yourself a bonus of £20million.

        • Eilidh says:

          Maybe I just cancel my subscription that I have been paying full price for nearly 3 years and get a £1 one. From this month the full subscription has risen to £ 12.99 a month. Not sure how much longer I will continue my subscription unless they finally add a block button so at least don’t have to keep scrolling by the idiots

  54. Dr Jim says:

    BBC Scotland’s Martin Geissler once again reveals himself and the BBCs attitude towards how they think of their role regarding Scotland, because in an opening statement this morning Geissler claimed that misleading a journalist is therefore misleading the country

    With that statement Geissler is stating that journalists have or should have more authority and or responsibility in Scotland for Scotland
    He is claiming the BBC and or journalists are the most important people in our country because what they say is the most important and so must be accurate

    Geissler states this at a time when the BBC has become the least trusted broadcaster in the British isles, because we know that internationally trust in the BBC is regarded as one of the lowest in the world of broadcasters and in fact is not trusted as a truthful organisation because it works and functions under the dead hand of the government in London England

    My own personal opinion of the BBC is that they should never be spoken to at all until and unless they demonstrate a willingness to understand democracy and report it so
    At this moment in time the BBC represents the government in England and has incredible difficulty in its arrogance to disguise that fact, or they wouldn’t have been taking a football commentator and an enormously beloved figure like David Attenborough off the air because the Tory government pressured them to do so

    The list of hand picked Tory and Labour political supporters placed in charge of programming on the BBC is as Gary Lineker suggested, 1930s Germany when the wrong people took over that country by placing their own hand picked people in positions of power, media, broadcasting, policing, transport, health and education, once that task was completed that regime owned Germany and it’s people and we know what happened next

    1930s Germany didn’t think that idea up all by themselves, they just copied the model that imperial England has been using for all of our lifetime and before

    65 countries have become independent and extricated themselves from England’s grip upon them, they didn’t do that for a laugh, they did it because they needed to survive
    One more thing, not one single country in the world that took its independence from England has ever asked to come back, not one!

    • Handandshrimp says:

      I would have thought misleading a journalist was the moral duty of every citizen of the land.

      While we may distrust politicians, bankers and estate agents the last person you would share anything with would be a journalist.

      • Welsh_Siôn says:

        While we may distrust politicians, bankers and estate agents the last person you would share anything with would be a journalist.

        A lesson Matt Hancock singularly failed to apply to his ‘relationship’ Isabel Oakeshott.

        PS Don’t forget Johnson’s original (careening) ‘career’ was as a most distrustful journo for the Telegraph in Brussels making up those anti-EU stories, as he himself admits, (if ha can relied upon to be truthful, even here), ‘for fun’.

  55. And there you have it. The irony of sick ironies.
    Dross has so much free time on his hands after shuttling between Edinburgh and London, and doing all that Leadership stuff for the Fascist Red Tories in their Northern Golden Goose Colony, that, rather than spend quality time with his wife and young family, he was running the line at the Motherwell Rangers clash.
    He must need the money.
    Ally McCoist, ‘Football Pundit of The Year’ was co-presenting the mammoth tussle.

    Now SKY presenters are forever apologising for ‘any bad language you might have heard’, so sensitive are they to the feelings of their paying customers.
    It must have warmed Dross’ cockles to hear the Loyal Sons belting out ‘The Famine Song’, mind, given that he voted for the Stop The Boats legislation last week.
    If only they could have introduced this fascist dehumanising legislation 170 years ago, Scotland would be a Mick Free country now.
    Below, for those who are unaware of the lyrics of this hateful ‘language of the 30’s ‘ song, I reproduce it in full.
    While Gary Lineker was being hounded by the right Wing, Ally McCoist was doing his pundit best as this disgusting hymn to hatred was being belted out full blast in the from the terracing.

    The Famine Song

    I often wonder where they would have been
    If we hadn’t have taken them in
    Fed them and washed them
    Thousands in Glasgow alone
    From Ireland they came
    Brought us nothing but trouble and shame
    Well the famine is over
    Why don’t they go home?

    Now Athenry Mike was a thief
    And Large John he was fully briefed
    And that wee traitor from Castlemilk
    Turned his back on his own
    They’ve all their Papists in Rome
    They have U2 and Bono
    Well the famine is over
    Why don’t they go home?

    Now they raped and fondled their kids
    That’s what those perverts from the darkside did
    And they swept it under the carpet
    And Large John he hid
    Their evils seeds have been sown
    ‘Cause they’re not of our own
    Well the famine is over
    Why don’t you go home?

    Now Timmy don’t take it from me
    Because if you know your history
    You’ve persecuted thousands of people
    In Ireland alone
    You turned on the lights
    Fuelled the U-boats by night
    That’s how you repay us
    It’s time to go home.

    No mention of this disgusting song, or attempt to mute it.
    This is the difference between a football personality with principles and others.

    I have this sense that no matter what these knuckledraggers do, The Jock Scotia Nostra will not only ignore it, but condone it as long as it keeps scotland held as conquered slaves of england.
    McCoist, get your act together.
    This was the background music to your praise of the mighty Gers.
    SKY, I won’t be subscribing to a channel which insults the Irish.

    • Capella says:

      What an appalling song. It mentions Bono and U2 but maybe they just update the celebrities as the centuries roll on.

    • PS:- for balance, most Duggers are aware of my equal disgust for the Green Machine or whatever they’re called.
      Brian Wilson, ex Tony Blair man, is a director over at ‘Paradise’, who is given wide access to the Dead Tree Scrolls fighting for English Supremacy of Scotland.
      Today is the 20th anniversary of Shock and Awe when Tony Blair authorised the mass carpet bombing of 10’s of thousands of innocent men women and children based on a lie.
      The heartless evil hatred and senseless destruction of our fellow humans is nothing new.
      Yet they still get centre stage in an attempt to deny Scotland its rightful place in the world.
      Wilson voted in favour of the Iraq war.
      He lobbies for British nuclear energy.
      I’ll stop now.

    • Dr Jim says:

      McCoist’s act is together, because he’s one of them, paid up joined up dyed in the wool loyalist supporter until death, he epitomises the Scotia Jock tugging his forelock to English rule over everywhere they set their foot
      He’d guard their coffins by day if he was instructed to

  56. Dr Jim says:

    Apparently not content at their failure to demonise Kate Forbes because of her Christianity the opponents of this candidate for FM have decided to use her youth against her
    War torn bombed and invaded from all sides by Russia Germany then Russia again the small country of Estonia on achieving their independence elected their first President aged 31 years of age, their chosen government averaged 26 years of age

    Estonia is one of the worlds most successful modern countries

    Kate Forbes is 32 years of age, not so very long ago that was knocking on a bit and if you’re a teens to 20s Kate is positively elderly

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      These would be the ones swooning in front of Jacinda Ardern (when newly-elected) and the Finnish PM (both of them female) for their youthfulness, vigour, fresh politics etc etc.

      Obviously, different rules apply to future (female) First Ministers of Scotland.

  57. raineach says:

    Seems to me that, to judge by what some of Humza’s supporters are saying and doing, that they already suspect he has lost this election

    • Bob Lamont says:

      I suspect what you’re missing in all this is the mind games being played.
      It is up to members who they elect collectively, nobody else, not even HMS James Cook and his oppo Glenn “In my opinion” Campbell playing to the audience…

      Ultimately not even the third placed candidate for SNP leadership could be so disastrous as Liz Truss was as PM for a mere 50 dismal days of utter lunacy and ego the Tories would rather everyone forget….
      Let’s make sure they don’t get to rewrite history this time around no matter who wins the SNP leadership contest…

    • scottish_skier says:

      Polling data suggest the election is actually Forbes’ to lose; she started out way in front with both the total electorate and, most importantly, SNP 2021 voters, which seem to reflect party members well (single poll so far). However, she has some advantage in that she’ll likely get the lion’s share of Regan transfers, potentially giving her the edge in the end.

      • Hamish100 says:

        Why don’t we just wait for the result.

        Most SNP members I know have voted and I would assume most places.

        Just more click bait for the unionists to ratchet up the maybes, what if this? What if that. Another poll or two won’t alter my vote as it can’t.

        This rammy is not for our benefit but theirs.

        As for the pretend independistas they wanted rid of the FM and of ex CEx. Murrell.
        They will just move on to whoever wins as their goal isn’t independence first and foremost.

        SNP got more than 1000000 votes last time. They will again. The 2% will remain at 2% or less

        Independence 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

        • scottish_skier says:

          Well I basically am, but you ken me and my polls – can’t help myself. 🙂

          I also don’t have time for folk talking about ‘us and them’ (‘Yousaf supporters’ etc).

        • Golfnut says:

          The vote should be stopped and ‘re run say non member, not qualified to vote but apparently ardent independence supporters. The result can’t possibly be respected by these people since absolutely nobody( actual voting members) is paying any attention to what they are saying( demanding ) regards who should be elected as leader of the SNP.

        • grizebard says:

          Hamish, couldn’t agree more. Every word true.

          Wake me up when there’s an actual result… (!) {grin}

      • Alan L says:

        If it’s Humza with 51% in the first round, how long until the next leadership election ? Is that what so many people appear to be (re? ) joining the party ?

        • scottish_skier says:

          We could ask the same if it is 51% Forbes.

          The key to making sure there’s not another leadership election soon in such case, is that the new leader to leads for the 51% and the 49% as Salmond then Sturgeon successfully did.

        • grizebard says:

          Thankfully most ordinary members of the SNP are focussed on the main door prize and not in the least sympathetic to endless rounds of diversionary factionalism, whatever the Unionist media (and other assorted SNP-haters) might hope and wish.

  58. Dr Jim says:

    I just had a look at the papers lined up on the supermarket stand and I never in my life have seen such drivel “SEX LIES AND SCANDAL” says one of the Mail or Express or Daily Record, but they’re all much the same accompanied by photos of Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell
    The amount of nonsense being talked is astonishing, and not strangely enough the language used contains the same wording as is used by that other real independence supporters who pay for subscriptions to the National just so they can repeat the same stuff

    My guess is it’s not the SNP who need to panic here but their enemies or why would they be banding together as one in this enormous effort to kill the SNP before the election of the new FM is over

    Is the election of Kate Forbes or Humza Yousaf scaring them so much they haven’t realised the election is virtually over as the members will have mostly made their minds up days ago and Ash Regan has lost, rendering the prophesies predictions and pontifications of her holy mentor silent

    I’ll get the door

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Nope, your summation is correct – The Mail/Express/Record have lost control of the narrative (again) in the public domain so are now desperate to recover some/any credibility – It’s so predictable – Incontinent pigeon assassins failed to target kid in QEUH’s ICU can’t be deployed, so “SEX LIES AND SCANDAL” are the fallback.
      Curiously enough HMS James Cook has suspended it’s usual HYS sessions with rent-a-troll Inc., instead concentrating focus on SNP “troubles” featuring Philip Sim, Anonymous with Glenn Campbell “Analysis” 🤣, Deirdre Kelly, Anonymous with Andrew Kerr “Analysis” 🤣, as prime stories of “public interest” despite having created a giant hoohah of even less of the public having a say than many on this forum (For Anonymous read Scotland Office).

      So yes, they’re scared…

  59. Handandshrimp says:

    I don’t know about anyone else but I’m touched by the number of journalists and opposition politicians expressing concern that the admin side of the SNP has got itself into a fankle over membership numbers.

    I don’t recall the other parties ever saying much about membership numbers. Perhaps that is the secret to good party administration, just don’t tell anyone what the membership is and then no one can say I don’t think that is right. The Tories didn’t say how many members cast votes for Truss and Sunak. It was a simple percentage split as I recall. I don’t think anyone knows how many Scottish Labour members there are…least of all anyone in the Labour Party.

    However it is very sweet of Jackie Baillie to say how worried she is, as indeed a whole pile of people I have never heard of have done. who knew they cared so much. I’m sure they will be thrilled when we have a new leader and we set about revamping our admin. They will likely be beside themselves with delight if the membership numbers start to rise again. It is our duty to fill them with joy.

    • grizebard says:

      Filling the {ahem} “leadership” of Scottish Labour with joy is surely much needed, and I admire your generosity of spirit. But equally I fear that they are irreversibly hooked on negativity. After all, Mitigation Hell is their only party policy. The one that dare not even speak its name.

      But why anyone out there who genuinely believes in independence would possibly think to assist by amplifying their unceasing doom-and-gloom about everybody and everything in Scotland, now that is truly a mystery for the psychologists to ponder…

    • scottish_skier says:

      Scottish Labour have members?

      Sound’s like you are peddling conspiracy theories here H&S! 🙂

  60. Dr Jim says:

    So it turns out BBC Scotland’s Glenn Campbell’s shock revelations of the FMs resignation were a big fat lie to the nation as the SNP had authorised a deliberate leak in order to encourage live coverage of the event
    So all that standing around outside Bute House pretending they knew nothing about it was just made up garbage by the BBC

    There’s your BBC for you, impartially dishonest

  61. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s far too soon to be talking about “unity”

    Three different candidates, three different paths for the SNP, whichever candidate people support. And a lot of enthusiasm for all three different paths, different approaches. It’s reasonably sure that all three paths involve some reforms, some changes, different ones depending on which candidate is elected.

    From that point of view it’s far too soon to be worried about “unity”, change means some like it, some resist, some don’t. Whichever candidate wins the election and becomes leader and then FM, there are going to be some members perhaps who can’t put up with it, and will leave the party. But there are some who will join the party because they welcome the changes and the new leader.

    On top of that as can be seen already, there are people joining or rejoining the SNP because of the drop in membership, in spite of or because of all the differences, and despite the voting still going on.

    When you get change it takes time for stability to set in, and considering that life and society is changing, perhaps there should never be any stability. So the SNP shouldn’t concentrate on keeping members, but in keeping and growing the overall membership. The thing about change is – it’s exciting. And many will want to be part of it.

    It’s far too soon to be talking about “unity”, and perhaps the SNP never should be.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Good article by Kirsty Strickland.

      • Golfnut says:

        Hardly an insightful article, more a lazy rehash of the media propaganda currently being pumped out. Since figures are published annually and trends in party membership easily identified, she might at least have mentioned where these figures could easily be accessed and of course where the media always new where they could be accessed.
        The question she might have asked is why MP’s, MSP’s and Foote didn’t know what the figure was as of the 2022 figure and indeed how many ballots were being issued for the election.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          I think it’s more a case of this:

          I’ve always been of the view that it’s better to get it all out in the open. Whether it’s in personal relationships or political parties, there is growth to be found in disagreement and working through issues.

          Other commentary seems to be more “blaming” one of other of the candidates, not, obviously, the one they support. I think she’s just saying, “Yeah, good stuff, it was overdue, get on with the change”. I found it quite refreshing. A change from the usual #wheeshtforSNP leading to stagnation.

      • Hamish100 says:

        Kirsty Strickland- often on the bcc radio from memory.
        Maybe she thought she was being humorous. Either way if she can’t organise a birthday party she has counted her self out as CE of the SNP.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          P4s these days are not like P4s when mine were 9 and about all of the class were invited. You’d get a bit of wildness and have to stop one or two climbing over walls, but these days you’d have to stop one trying to hit people with the chairs, another from spitting at other kids, another you’d maybe have to change the nappy. And you’d be stuck with at least one of them because the parents were far out. Different days.

    • scottish_skier says:

      Three different candidates

      Isn’t one basically Alba?

      • yesindyref2 says:

        No, but you just neatly demonstrated my comment:

        It’s far too soon to be talking about “unity”

        One-tenth about of the SNP membership would be voting for Ash Regan.

        • scottish_skier says:

          The thing is though, if the SNP split in half, it would just mean more Yes MSPs in Holyrood under AMS PR due to the counting system and the fact you might find more people moving to e.g. a more centre right SNP from the Tories and to a more left SNP from Labour.

          Probably the worst outcome for the union is an SNP split creatiing a wider range of Yes parties, more Yes MSPs, and multiple fronts to fight on.

          This is why I’m not remotely bothered even if this actually happened. In fact the SNP becoming more than one party, e.g. a more left and a more right, would indicate that Scotland is on the brink of indy, hence developing a full spectrum of Yes parties.

  62. What a failure the SNP Party is.
    A paltry 72,000 members, as opposed to:-
    Scottish Labour: 16,467
    Scottish Greens: 7,500
    Scottish Liberal Democrats: 4,185 members
    Figures are not available for the Scottish Conservatives, but they have been approached for comment…
    What a bang up job by the Millionaire dentist Sarwar in maintaining such a mighty number of members to the Brit Jock New Labour cause.
    And bravo to Coal Scuttle for attracting 4,000 plus change to the LD Branch Office Up Here.
    The Tories refuse to divulge figures, and Geissler couldn’t be arsed demanding membership numbers from Lord Offal on his ridiculously shallow little Sunday Breakfast Get The SNP weekly bulletin ..He actually giggled his way through the interview with the unelected Blue Tory mouthpiece.
    There is more depth in s fruit fly’s belly button than there is in Geissler’s farcical Brit Scotia Nostra pathetic broadcast.
    Yet Murrell lied, the SNP party has collapsed, the end of the Independence Movement is at hand.
    There were around 10,000 Blue Tories Up here during Johnson’s time as PM…
    So, the SNP is in decline? So what do these membership figures of the Brit Parties tell us about their status in Scotland?
    Nothing, because the MSM and broadcasters refuse to challenge the Unionist Brit parties.
    Forbes will be the catalyst.
    SNP membership will surge once more.

    • deelsdugs says:

      Aye it will that Jack. The everyday public are a bit sheepish, gullible and pathetic, when it comes to the media and ‘all that is written in print with pictures in colour too, is true…’ rather than questioning why are the media are so anti-Scottish, anti-SNP and anti-independence…

      • If you had the chance to watch TV in countries of a similar size to Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, and such, you realise how cack handed and amateurish our broadcasters and Dead Tree Scrolls really are.
        It is more than the jobs of Campbell, Kerr, and Magnusson jobs are worth to even vaguely big up anything Scottish.
        As we know, those who tried to were sacked or demoted, or constructively dismissed.
        Campbell, Magnusson, Bewes, and their ilk are paid to smirk and belittle the SNP and our fight for self Determination.
        They get good money to betray their country of birth.
        They don’t care that Scotland’s resources are plundered by England..because they are paid to make sure that we remain an English colony.

        They are not very good at the reporting stuff either.
        We have had 4 solid weeks of religious persecution from this lot.
        No, not Humza, but the Free Kirk candidate.

        Forbes’ church split from the Kirk, back in the day..I can’t be bothered looking up the dates, so she is fair game for BBC Kirkland, and the Dead Tree Scrolls who described rampaging evil RFC / Orange Order destroying George Square as fans celebrating their team’s victories.
        The Finance Industry in Edinburgh has a trillion in assets…it’s run by appointees from London.
        But the Scotia Nostra Scots who control our professional class, the chartered accountants, lawyers, bankers, surveyors, actuaries, and so on, have their roots, and routes to promotion, dependent on membership of the right kirk and secret society.
        Has anybody asked Glenn Campbell about his religious beliefs? Or Andrew Kerr? Or Sally Magnusson? Or Kirsty Wark?

        Whenever I broach the subject of what is laughingly described as the official religion of Scotland (don’t laugh) it all goes quiet on here.
        Well, we shall never be free if the dog collars and secret societies make the rules, and staff the TV and newspapers.
        What’s Martin Geissler”s religion? Anybody know?
        A religious minor cult in Scotland still believes it can stop the 21st Century.
        I am aware that this post makes some Duggers blood boil.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      There are so many strains on folks’ finances that membership of any particular party will be low on the list of priorities, but the media (and others) hoo-ha over SNP membership numbers is hype.

      eg – There is an article in the National which includes the observation “But by guarding that drop in numbers so ferociously, the party set itself up for inevitable trouble”
      Now what would be basis for this assertion, the BBC led version of events ? Forget that only the NEC could sanction release of figures out of sync with their official annual publication, let’s go with the BBC Scotland conspiracy theory that they were forced to come clean under public pressure ?

      As previously observed, the BBC deliberately referenced the published figure for March 2023 to that published in 2021, NOT the figure published in 2022 – The 2021 fall to 2022 was 18%, the fall to March 2023 was 15%, that looks remarkably like a trend to me, but doesn’t sell a false narrative.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Well, from Mike Russell, the SNP president and now acting SNP Chief Executive, “He added that not releasing membership figures was not the correct decision for this particular contest.

        So it’s not just the BBC that say the numbers should have been released, and that it was a mistake.

        • Bob Lamont says:

          Nobody is saying the numbers should NOT have been released, and the NEC did so, the only remaining question is whether the CEO could have done so earlier (Perhaps why he was given an ultimatum and resigned ?).
          – The “guarding that drop in numbers so ferociously” is based on what ?
          Prior knowledge by the party administration that the BBC in Scotland would compare to the 2021 figure instead of the 2022 figure.
          That’s just nuts.

  63. scottish_skier says:

    Out of interest, now that Pete M has resigned, who is in charge of ‘fixing the leadership contest’?

    Asking for a QAnon British Nationalist ‘indy supporter’.

    Thanks in advance.

  64. scottish_skier says:

    Next time the British media ask, the SNP should say they’ve got a million new members in the past week.

  65. Dr Jim says:

    Many thousands of EU workers left Scotland and we can’t replace them, Brexit
    MOD ££billions over budget and years late delivery on submarines and tanks
    UK Covid enquiry, let the bodies pile high
    English PM Boris Johnson lied consistently
    Unelected English PM Liz Truss crashed the UK economy leaving millions in mortgage debt and poverty
    UK energy companies allowed to rip off the taxpayer
    UK policy on fuel prices the most expensive in Europe ripping off the taxpayer
    Unelected English PM Rishi Sunak brings back slavery by selling people to a foreign country
    There are no arms long enough to list what the dictatorship in England is doing

    Yet the anti Scottish media consider the amount of members in the SNP is far more important to Scots apparently
    Such is the machinations of the opposition to Scottish self determination that they employ their entire media reporting something that affects the lives of not one single taxpayer in the whole of the British Isles, let alone Scotland

    I demand the BBC disclose how many members of the SNP are employed by them?

    Do we think it’s none? of course not, we know it’s none

    • see my post at 10.08 above, Dr Jim.
      They should mount a brass plaque at the entrance to plantation Quay Stockade.
      No dogs, blacks, or Catholics.
      Douglas Ross and baron Jack of Tent Hire, ‘friend’ of the disgusting human being, are selling refugees into slavery…not a fucking word from the Jock media.
      I wouldn’t trust myself in a room with any of them.

    • Eilidh says:

      I think it likely there are Indy supporters in BBC Scotland but don’t dare mention it for fear of their jobs. Probably too afraid to join the Snp too

  66. Capella says:

    Some advice on settling the currency question for the new FM.

    Scottish Currency Group’s open letter to SNP leadership candidates

    For the Scottish Currency Group, a credible plan to introduce a currency soon after independence is essential to a winning strategy. The Group also believes that a match fit First Minister will quickly dispense with muddled thinking about ‘just using sterling’.

    We can make devolution work better for Scotland while working towards independence.

    Renegotiating the Fiscal Framework with the UK Government will be an early opportunity. The current arrangements give the Scottish Government authority to manage many services, but almost none to raise the revenue needed to pay for its priorities. Many economists believe that the devolution settlement cannot be politically stable unless the Scottish Government has the authority to run a deficit.

    That would make the Scottish Government much more like the government of an independent country, setting its own priorities across its areas of competence, while issuing debt against the promise of the future revenues resulting from public investment.

  67. Welsh_Siôn says:

    Off topic.

    I’m hoping to organise a petition (non-political in subject matter). What would be a user-friendly website to use (and which doesn’t fund the yoons, either?)

    Thanks in advance.

    • Capella says:

      Sorry WS I don’t know of any other than Change which I don’t trust as it seems to be related to the Labour Party.

  68. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s not the actual number of members is the point; it’s that first the SNP hid the number, then actually lied about it. It’s not the BBC did that, it’s not the Daily Maul, it’s not the Brutish media, it’s not Pathetic Quay and it’s not the Scottish Branches of the blindly faithful to the precious union unionist parties.

    It’s the SNP who dun the dirty deed. And it’s the SNP left it as a lie for over 4 weeks without correcting it.

    • Dr Jim says:

      The SNP did not do any dirty deed whatsoever, an individual in the SNP made a wrong or bad decision, I am the SNP as are many thousands of others and we did nothing wrong

      The SNP is not the Tories or Labour Lib Dem or Alba run by the dictat of one

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Everyone in the SNP who knew the membership had dropped, and surely that’s more than just one person, who didn’t say publicly when the SNP rubbished the Daily Mail and its reporter, “that’s wrong, the actual membership is now”, accepted the lie and are just as guilty as the actual liar. They’re liars by association.

        And all the media are never ever ever going to forget that, even if they can’t stand the Daily Mail.

        And as far as I can see, nobody has even apoligised to the reporter that was unjustly trashed.

        The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth. And the truth shall set us free and Independent.

        • scottish_skier says:

          I don’t have any problem with the SNP leading the foreign English/British media a merry dance. These are people that hate Scots so deeply they won’t even let us vote. They have no respect for democracy or for us as a people. We are beneath them in their eyes, so don’t deserve the rights that they have, such as voting.

          Pretty much nobody will change their vote over the non-scandal that is the membership numbers. It’s a massive union jack squirrel of epic proportions, with the vote rigging something so ridiculous it would make QAnon blush.

          One person in the SNP who was planning to step down and no longer works for them apparently gave another person who was likely for the axe and is already gone some incorrect figures. The latter then gave these unverified numbers to the media of the country currently forcibly occupying Scotland. This will not have people jumping to the Tories and Labour. In fact, it seems to be boosting SNP numbers from anecdotes, which would make much more sense.

          People couldn’t give a s**t about such sillienss in the face of brexit, the cost of living crisis, denial of democracy etc while they sit in the dark hungry and too afraid to turn on the heating. This is particularly since ‘the SNP” itself have done everything correctly, with the real numbers duly released following correct procedures.

          It is only the British nationalists who try to equate individuals with a 72k member party, something they were particularly fond of doing with Pete M. He leaves with an incredibly clean record – this is all they have?

          I personally am totally behind the SNP lying to the British media as much as they possibly can. Or should Ukrainians in the east always be totally honest with the occupying Russians? These people are our enemy. They wish to subject our people and occupy their land to drain it of it’s resources. So please SNP, lead them a merry dance.

          • yesindyref2 says:

            I personally am totally behind the SNP lying to the British media as much as they possibly can.

            Good grief.

            We will never become independent while people lie to the undecided and NO voters, even if indirectly.

    • Hamish100 says:


      Your albanist slip is showing


      • yesindyref2 says:

        The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth Hamish.

        Something you appear to despise.

        • Hamish100 says:

          Rather rude. The whole truth and nothing but the truth.🤐. But you stick to the daily Mail as your font of all knowledge

          • yesindyref2 says:

            Rather rude.

            Says the guy who posts:
            Your albanist slip is showing

            But you stick to the daily Mail as your font of all knowledge

            I don’t read the Daily Mail. Haven’t done since the 1980s when it was good for Money Mail.

            Is that all you’ve got – your lack of self-awareness, and false allegations?

        • scottish_skier says:

          If you want to tell the British nationalists the truth all the time, ok, but I’m happy to lie through my teeth to them to have them going off on wild goose chases. Fine for the SNP to do that too.

          • yesindyref2 says:

            If you want to tell the British nationalists the truth all the time, ok, but I’m happy to lie through my teeth to them to have them going off on wild goose chases. Fine for the SNP to do that too.

            Jings. That says everything anybody needs to know about you.

  69. Dr Jim says:

    BBC Scotland’s James Cook reports that Nicola Sturgeon resigned out of frustration as well as fatigue

    He must’ve seen yet another fictitious email from ze French Ambassador, or he get’s his information from that infamous mind reading psychic blogger, who get’s his information from that failed ex FM, who gets his information from his Tory pal David Davis, who gets his information from the Daily Mail, who get their information from 10 Downing street

  70. Capella says:

    Re SNP membership numbers – someone called Leon Skum on twitter went through the annual accounts as returned to and published by the Electoral Commission. I haven’t taken the trouble to do this myself but you would think the membership secretary or the comms person could have done it, or any journalist interested.
    Here they are (unchecked by me):

    membership numbers

    18th September 2014 – 25,642
    31st December 2014 – 93,045
    31st December 2015 – 115,102
    31st December 2016 – 118,959
    16th April 2018 – 118,162
    31st December 2018 – 125,534
    31st December 2019 – 125,691
    31st December 2020 – 105,393
    31st December 2021 – 103,884

    We could add to that the figures recently published for December 2022 of c 85,000.
    Since then there has been a further fall to c 72,000.

    Though this is a high number in comparison to other political parties, I think this should have been available at the start of the leadership contest. Keeping them secret clearly favours the “continuity” candidate.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Wouldn’t you have thought Murray Foote as head of communications would have known all and any membership figures as part of his only job as head of communications before he wrongly communicated them then blamed somebody else for them being incorrect

      What was he doing with all his time as head of communications if not to accurately communicate information

      All of this very much reminds me of the same tactics Labour used when they set out to destroy their own leader Jeremy Corbyn

      The bigger the party the more difficult it is to manage the people in it

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Dr Jim, Murray Foote resigned. What about all those working at SNP HQ who knew the correct figures but supplied him with a lie? Have any of them resigned yet?

        This isn’t over yet, no matter how many brushes are used or how big the carpet.

        • Capella says:

          Yes – Peter Murrell has resigned. Keep up YIR2!

          • yesindyref2 says:

            Peter Murrell didn’t say he knew the numbers, he said as CE it was his responsibility.

            Whoever did know the numbers, and it would be more than one person. is still in place. THEY haven’t resigned for telling lies.

            So there are still proven liars working in SNP HQ.

            And all the media have the wit to know that, and use it at the most damaging time possible for the SNP and Indy.

            I want Forbes to win because she is honest (as well as good at the economy)

            Have peoplehere forgotten already that it’s her honesty that attracted them?

      • Capella says:

        Yes I do think Murray Foote should have known the numbers. I thought checking primary sources was actually a core skill of a journalist. Do they just blindly accept whatever press releases political parties give them nowadays? (that’s a rhetorical question btw)

        • yesindyref2 says:

          He wasn’t acting as a journalist, he was head of communications. Totally different. He communicated what he was given to communicate.

          • scottish_skier says:

            No wonder he resigned before being axed. How sloppy was not actually checking the numbers / getting official figures.

            It’s called personal responsibility.

            • yesindyref2 says:

              He trusted SNP HQ not to lie to him.

              They lied to him. They betrayed his trust.

              He resigned.

              It’s not rocket science.

              • Bob Lamont says:

                “It’s not rocket science” -Neither are conspiracy theories..

              • scottish_skier says:

                He resigned before, I suspect, he was asked to by the new chief exec and new leader. After all, the ‘anti-continuity’ folks seem to think he’s been doing a good job – hence pointing at membership numbers. Foote is collectively responsible for these and was charged with managing the SNP’s messaging. People are saying this has been bad and a change is needed. If he can’t take any responsibility here, the party is best rid of him. If he doesn’t make sure he has the right numbers, double checking before publishing, then he’s defo not fit for the job.

                I also note you doing your unionist thing in suggesting everyone at ‘SNP HQ are liars who have betrayed peoples trust’. First, stop speaking for other people. I didn’t delegate you to decide whether my trust is broken and nobody else did either. 🙂

                Also, I understand the truth is one person seems to have given him rough, unverified figures to give to the unionist media, which they may or may have not known were inaccurate (they are claiming error here). Seemed a bit sus to me when I heard them myself due to the cost of living crisis.

                One person doesn’t constitute the SNP nor even SNP HQ. It’s pure britnat to try and keep pushing this line, seriously; tar everyone with same brush… ‘SNP = Pete M and Mrs M’ etc. Seen it all before. Foote was as much ‘the SNP’ as Pete M was; both simply paid employees. Did not represent the members nor voters nor elected reps.

                Finally, the person who made the mistake held their hands up and stepped down with full details released by the party on actual numbers in a short space of time. This shows the party / HQ is very honest and trustworthy.

                This is a non-story and will have zero effect on anything. I’m perplexed with you doing a dog with a bone routine as normally you can spot what is important and what’s not.

    • scottish_skier says:

      Keeping them secret clearly favours the “continuity” candidate.

      May I ask how? Would you be backing Yousaf if the latest figures showed a rise in numbers? I suspect not! 🙂

      That’s just not how things work. People just don’t factor this in – they vote for who they prefer. The numbers just reflect circumstances, with the cost of living crisis undoubtedly hitting these hard. The SNP gain more than half their vote from those on the lowest incomes. Current membership numbers are miraculous in the circumstances. To be twice the size (per capita) of what UK Labour were before the crisis is incredible.

      • Capella says:

        How? By keeping important information from people which might influence their decision. If people are voting with their feet then continuing to do the same thing is not a good idea. Therefore the continuity candidate would attract less support.

        Most people vote in the first few hours of receiving the email. By keeping bad news secret till day 4 you will have influenced people’s decision making during the time when most people will be voting. Of course, actively lying about membership numbers is even worse.

        • scottish_skier says:

          I honestly don’t understand this. I’ve never encountered anyone that e.g. voted for a a person / party they didn’t like because simply that person was more popular / that’s what others were doing. This seems to be what you are proposing, i.e. that Kate Forbes, potentially perceived as a ‘continuity candidate’ (part of the Sturgeon cabinet for nearly 5 years) could somehow be boosted or hurt by membership numbers?

          If this happens, why is everyone not voting SNP? If people vote for popular candidates / parties because others are doing to, then surely the SNP should be getting all the votes because they’ve been getting most of the votes? 🙂

          Or is it that people just vote for who they like, and support for a party just reflects circumstances rather than influences it? That’s my experience.

          What next, we give running totals for all three candidates? Do you think we should be showing data which might show Forbes is behind so voters can not back the losing candidate but instead the one that’s out in front as you suggest might happen?

          And if membership numbers are down, how do we know it’s not because of Forbes? She’s been a minister for nearly 5 years, and senior cabinet for over 3. You could argue that membership numbers have fallen since she controlled the purse strings as ‘chancellor’ of Scotland. 🙂

          But frankly, that would be silly, just as it is to suggest Yousaf is responsible. Hell, maybe it was Regan marching that had people leaving? 🙂

          I’m voting based on what I think of the candidates and what they are proposing. This finds me largely neutral on the top two. I certainly can’t see how any of them are responsible for any drop in membership numbers – doesn’t seem to have been Sturgeon’s doing either. The fact that the SNP have continued to hit record levels of support in elections and maintain honeymoon numbers polling-wise suggests any loss of membership is mainly due to another reason. I can think of a very, very obvious one!

          I also appreciate how the NEC needs to give the ok for membership numbers to be released in detail / verifiably – it’s not for any single person to just give out such confidential data willy nilly. The candidates asked, the candidates got. Why didn’t they ask from the get go if they felt this was key to campaigns? But I won’t get cynical here…

          • Capella says:

            You’re being deliberately obtuse, as you often are, and taking 8 paragraphs to do so. It’s not worth engaging in sophistry.

            • scottish_skier says:

              Quite happy to stand by what I said. I don’t do personal digs nor attack the ‘length’ of people’s posts because I can’t counter them.

  71. Hamish100 says:

    Do you think Foote remembers the Vow and the promises undelivered by labour, Lib Dems and tories?

  72. Capella says:

    There was a good article by Kevin McKenna in The National today pointing out the uncharismatic bunch of Labour and Tory leaders, past and present, on offer to the voters – lest anyone criticise the SNP contestants.

    But I won’t post it here for fear of triggering the allergic. You can take out a subscription as Hamish100 suggests. 🙂

  73. Welsh_Siôn says:

    Yet another o/t – but in the hope this alert about the alert proves useful. (Somehow this story snuck under my radar first time around and is quite creepy and scary IMO):

    Every phone in UK to sound ’emergency alarm’ on St George’s Day

    20 Mar 2023 2 minute read

    A new public alert system will be tested on St George’s Day which will cause mobile phones across the UK to sound a siren-like emergency warning.

    Once phone users receive the warning, which will be accompanied by a loud alarm and vibration, they will be locked out of using any of the devices features until they acknowledge the alert on Sunday 23rd April.


    • Tatu3 says:

      That is scary. Can they legally do that, control your phone? And then saying they will not be collecting personal data, haha and we believe them?? Should joining up to an alert system not be a choice. A choice made before they send the alarm and take over your phone? Given the chance to choose after is not really a choice. I just don’t trust them

  74. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah well, if Kate Forbes wins the leadership contest, perhaps she can set a good example about the Importance of Being Honest.

    Meantime it’s clear we have a long way to go yet.

  75. Capella says:

    There was also an article by Steph (sic) Paton suggesting Kate Forbes and Ash Regan are being “Trumpian” by asking for independent scrutiny of the election process. Calling someone Trumpian or far right indicates that they’re the bad guys, we don’t like them. But I think that we live in a democracy and so the integrity of the election process is paramount.
    There is nothing far right about respecting democracy.

    But I won’t post that one either.

    • Dr Jim says:

      How very *British* of her, they’ll be terrorists next
      Asking the question confirms the possible right as well as the possible wrong, the only losers are the wrong, and nobody wants the wrong, so it must be good

      • scottish_skier says:

        Apparently it’s the tea lady fixing the vote now until a new chief exec is in place to do this. Everyone’s in on it, even the Amazon guy that delivers to SNP HQ.

  76. Dr Jim says:

    Ash Regan’s just gone too far now demanding a rerun vote

    • scottish_skier says:

      I’m leaning towards this so I can remove her as my third preference.

      After all, doing so won’t affect the outcome, but putting her third makes me feel like I voted for her.

      Still, I guess she’s sure she’s coming third.

  77. Chicmac says:

    I voted Ash/Kate early on. I would still stick with that if allowed to alter.
    Ash has grown in presence for me since then and been the most consistent policywise.
    Somewhat paradoxically, I’m not sure I would want her to win this leadership election because, if the rumoured shtistorm that is about to hit the party is true, whoever wins it might well be fatally flawed. Perhaps better if she were left out of it but standing in the wings.

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