Simple arithmetic with Rishi Sunak

Rishi Sunak, remember him? He’s the latest unelected Prime Minister, a man who was rejected by his own party and who was awarded the job without any vote after the previous unelected incumbent tanked the economy in just two weeks, and cost the public purse some £60 billion in the process (remember that figure next time some frothing British nationalist on social media complains about the ferries), this is a record in wreaking havoc even by the malignant standards of the Conservative party. Sunak was given the job as he was supposed to be the grown up in the cabinet, an image which he assiduously cultivated by dint of ensuring that his trousers ended a couple of inches above his trousers. He then proceeded to do his best to vanish from public sight even as strikes spread across the public sector adding to the already widespread gloom and misery which characterised the supposedly festive season.

Now Sunak and his skinny tie have popped back into the limelight, with a series of five vague promises which he insists we should judge him by. So just ignore how he and his party have trashed democracy, both in Scotland and in the UK as a whole, how they have presided over an appalling decline in standards of decency in public office, allowed corruption and cronyism to run rampant, alienated the UK from Europe and created massive barriers to trade with their ideologically driven Brexit none of whose supposed benefits have materialised, how Sunak happily enabled Boris Johnson and was likewise fined by the police, right up to the moment he saw his chance to nab the top job, how the Conservatives have prioritised the protection of energy company profiteering as vulnerable people freeze, none of this, or any other Conservative atrocity matters. Sunak is telling us that we must judge him on some metrics he has conveniently come up with to suit himself. Naa… The public will be the judge of what they judge the Tories on. It’s like a serial killer telling us that he wants to be judged on his dancing skills as he dances on the graves of his victims.

Sunak made the – what we are told to call promises – in a speech delivered in East London, a speech which came a couple of days after an anodyne video message which was published on social media only for some genius to change the background to make it look like he was speaking to us while sitting on the toilet. The speech was delivered in the tone of a bored lecturer in management consultancy speaking to a class of particularly dim teenagers. Not so much Jackanory as Jackatory. This is what happens when a Tory leader pitches a speech for the public at a level his MPs would understand. Still, if there’s one thing that the Conservatives do know how to do well it’s being infuriatingly patronising. This is a man whose tenure in office looks likely to be only slightly longer than the time it takes for an ambulance to turn up. Sunak’s chances of reversing the polling lead of the equally smug and patronising Keir Starmer are growing smaller every day, and with it the chances of his nervous back benchers plotting to oust him grow ever greater.

The policy-free, faux-earnest speech by Sunak was utterly tone-deaf. But you must admit it’s either very bold, or gob smackingly arrogant, for the leader of a party that has been in charge for the past 13 years to demand a clean slate and to be judged on future results based on some self-serving criteria. We are being treated like toddlers. We’ve had mansplaining, now it’s time for poshsplaining.

“We will rebuild trust in politics”, says the leader of the party which has completely destroyed trust in politics. Basically we are being ordered by Sunak to judge the Tories on the next two years while they try to bribe their way to another General Election win. Ignore the last thirteen years. They don’t count. They never happened. That was someone else, bad boys done it and ran away. Sunak insisted : “Judge us on the effort we put in and the results we achieve.” Well yeah, that’s exactly what we have been doing, it hasn’t gone too well for you has it.

The five promises, if anyone was still paying attention by this point, included cutting NHS waiting lists, bringing down inflation, growing the economy, and stopping boats carrying asylum seekers across the English Channel from France. They were not only vague but there was no real clarity about the timescale in which they were supposed to be met. As promises go they had more wriggle room than ths small print on one of Gordie Broon’s vows.

Even the normally tame press was distinctly underwhelmed. The UK is grinding to a halt, you can’t get a train, you have to wait hours for an ambulance, nurses are forced to use food banks as they cannot afford to feed their families, the simplest task like booking a driving test is an exercise in the impossible. Sleaze, corruption and cronyism run rampant in a government in which no one is ever held to account. People live in terror of the next energy bill, and this, THIS, is what Sunak insists are the public’s priorities, vague promises that we have all heard many times before. Not a plan to get us all out of a series of crises which have either been created by Sunak and his party or compounded by them, instead we get this vacuous management-speak bollocks from a man who is so out of touch that he doesn’t even know how a contactless card works.

Economic forecasts are united in claiming that inflation will fall later this year anyway, so Sunak is effectively in the same position as a man who throws a ball in the air, says that he will bring it down, and then takes the credit for gravity.

Anyway, part of his ‘vision’ for the UK is to make maths compulsory until the age of 18. Has anyone told him that education is a devolved matter? “How can we stop people dying in ambulances, Prime Minister?” “Why, we can get non-existent maths teachers to teach them quadratic equations. That will sort it. It will take their minds off dying in pain on a trolley.”

Here’s a simple maths question for Sunak, since he has never won a General Election and got the support of just 42% of his own party members and a mere 38% of MPs, how come he has a mandate to pursue his policies but the pro-independence majority in Holyrood don’t?

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55 comments on “Simple arithmetic with Rishi Sunak

  1. uno mas says:

    You´re so right Paul. It just doesn´t add up, does it?

  2. Dr Jim says:

    I could probably acquire more votes than Rishi Sunak on a walk to the Post Office, and I’d definitely be rejected by a lot less people, why am I not the Prime Minister? surely I surpass the English definition of democracy which is now just selection by yer mates if you do what they tell you

  3. Alex Clark says:

    Sunak only became Prime Minister as an antidote to Johnson and Truss. The Tories want you to forget all about the disastrous and wreckless policies followed by those two so they have put the Tory version of the Invisible Man in charge.

    Beneath that bland, boring but ever so polite exterior is a Tory every bit as heartless, callous, clueless and ideologically driven as his predecessors. This is why he is refusing to even begin to address the reasons that so many employees in the public sector are striking.

    His ideology tells him that workers don’t deserve a pay rise that even keeps pace with inflation never mind a pay rise that actually would make them a little better off in these desperate time. He’s a man that would rather see the cap on bankers bonuses be scrapped and their potential rewards once agin unlimited. He does that because he’s one of them.

    He’s a millionaire ex-banker and hedge fund manager that just happens to have gotten into politics. Anyone who would vote for this billionaire’s friend believing that he got into politics because he wants to help people and make a difference to their lives need to understand just one thing. He’s talking about people exactly like him and not people like you or me.

    An Independent Scotland would never elect as First Minister anyone like him, Johnson, Truss or Thatcher ever again, the voters would make sure of that.

  4. That is a brilliant post. You noted in the last email that Scotland is rich on energy resources. It is no wonder England wants to retain the union, so they can bleed Scotland dry.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Scotland invented half the modern world, our inventions taken and rebranded British, our medical advances stolen and sold to big pharma corporations, our natural assets plundered and sold, our aspirations quashed, our population like Wales never allowed to increase in fear of Scotland actually becoming politically equal
      Scotland is the most emigrated part of the British isles by virtue of Englands theft and greed to grow at the expense of Scotland and Wales

      Scotland and Wales votes don’t count towards electing UK governments in general elections for the very good reason that we must never ever acquire political parity with England

      If democracy were real in the UK and Scotland’s population had kept natural pace the SNP could feasibly be the UK government by virtue of the FPTP voting system
      Westminster and England could never allow such a thing and why we are where we are

      Independence for Scotland would cause such a tidal wave of discontent in England as their media would certainly focus upon the huge advances our own governing would create, leading to the realization of the population of England that they were being ripped off massively and governed by modern day fascists using a smiling monarchy to pretend they’re not a mafia gang

      Why does England not hear of Ireland’s prosperity compared to that of England?
      The UK government and its media hide the truth of it

      • John Muir says:

        London media would ignore indy Scotland’s progress, just as they ignore Ireland’s. To them “the western world” consists of their own country and the USA, beyond which lie dragons. Thank God America exists, Britain would look such a shitehole without that dodgy comparison. Of course they ignore the United States’ immense wealth and power, just as they’d ignore indy Scotland’s health and equality. Objective reportage is not the game they play.

        Independence is for us, not the people of England. Scots can’t be another country’s conscience.

  5. Capella says:

    He’s been upstaged already – first by “The Spare” Harry complaining about his big brother hitting him (brothers fight? Shock!) then by Sir Keir Starmer promising to “take back control” from what looks like the engine room of a container ship.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64173370

    Has there ever been such a charisma free pair of chumps vying for public attention since Stanley “Safety First” Baldwin?

  6. yesindyref2 says:

    This is one of the things I hope to see more of this year:

    the image of the The Times front page. Not so much the freedom of expression article as the one above it: “Compulsory maths for every Schoolchild in England until 18”.

    That’s “England”, education is still devolved in Scotland though the motherfuc of all Parliaments reserves the right to walk roughshod over our own Parliament whenever it wants.

    However, if it finally becomes clear to our Unionist press in Scotland that we’ve had May followed by nutter BoJo, followed by mad Truss, now followed by totally off the rails la la land Sunak, then maybe the tipping point will be reached for even those august unionist institutions.

    Meanwhile, I personally use calculus every day of my life (laughs).

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, I forgot, linking to the photo unfortunately drags in the whole twitter tweet. Oh well.

      • If you right click on the photo in the tweet on the twitter page and ‘open image in new tab’ or ‘copy image address’ you’ll get a link looking like this (edited):

        …/media/FloU6D9XgAEAP3E?format=jpg&name=900×900

        If you copy and edit to this:

        …/media/FloU6D9XgAEAP3E.jpg

        You’ll have a standard image link for pasting. Maybe you know this already. If so, others might not!

  7. deelsdugs says:

    This is in response to the ‘compulsory maths’ and deadly dull education the rich-i-kid has as a not-so-cunning plan to keep young people in check…it’ll bite his arse…feech

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02R4tgu4oQsGX4vvYeEm87K4RLCfT5JtPCEA2vz7kK7iARyLkXcrgPwXffVuwWxAm7l&id=258251917612774

  8. jfngw says:

    As far as I can see the Tories are running the UK as if Bernie Madoff is in charge, money filtered off to enrich themselves and their ‘friends’. The only difference is Madoff is in prison and many of the Tories and their ‘friends’ are now in the House of Lords.

    I remember a work colleague in the 1980’s spent a year working in Oman, his comment when he came back was they have lots of facilities but nothing actually works. The Tories have spent the last 13 years replicating this.

  9. bringiton says:

    The failure of the UK state is not so much a result of incompetent leadership but because of Tory ideology.
    Free wheeling marketeering only works in good times.
    When we fall on hard times,the state needs to step in and fix the problems created by the market.
    Unfortunately if you have had 40 years of governance aimed at reducing the size and capabilities of the state,then you can’t.
    The UK is a failed state.

  10. cathygunn says:

    Failure of the state doesn’t even come close. In a local Co op in Central Edinburgh today I found individual portions of fresh meat locked in security sleeves ‘for removal at check out.’ FFS is this what ‘taking back control’ means?

    • FFS. We are truly entering the dystopia of Brexit Britain. I hope Scots shoppers see this and understand it is supporting the union that puts us in this situation. And the economic cost to supermarkets of doing this sort of thing is big. Costs the economy itself in turn, driving the downward spiral.

      What’s even more crazy is British / English polling experts (National summary article) are musing that all this will make Scots put indy down the priority list as the later ‘focus on putting food on the table’. What country do these people live in? (You don’t need to answer that. It’s not this one).

      Aye, cos like when Thatcher / Major ruined the Scottish economy, bringing the country to its knees, with 1 in 10 leaving in search of a better life, folk were ‘not thinking about indy and put devo down the priority list’. Then in the aftermath of the great financial crisis, Scots ‘put indy down the priority list’ and didn’t hand the SNP a stunning victory in 2011 (just ahead of the double dip recession that never quite came to be) setting things in motion for iref2 where 45% voted for full indy right? Experts ma bahookie. It was the economic recovery up to 2016 that saved the UK, narrowly.

      When people feel things are spiralling out of control, they seek to take control. UK economic stability and prosperity is the enemy of the Yes movement. Ironically, the SNP working to make things better for Scots is technically counteracting what’s driving Scots to vote for indy, i.e. the socio-economic damage being wrought by British / English rule.

      That brexiter buffoon Starmer is half right. Scots do want to ‘take back control’. However, their reasoning for this fundamentally different to their brexiter neighbours to the south. Scottish indy supporters want to ‘take back control’ so they can re-enter the EU/EEA, have free movement again etc. Brenlgish brexiters want the exact opposite, so they can build walls to ‘keep furriners out’ etc. Scots indy supporters want to stop this madness; Brenglish brexiters want to compound it.

  11. Calvin Coolidge, the 30th POTUS, was known for his low profile man of few words, style of governing the USA.
    It was probably one of his spin doctors who invented the tale of an example of his ‘silent wisdom’, recounting that during a state dinner a guest teased Coolidge that they had bet a friend that they could get the Prez to say more than two words during the meal.
    Coolidge is reported to have muttered ‘You lose’, to the hapless guest.

    Like Sunak Coolidge had little time for serving the public.

    When Coolidge passed away, Dorothy Parker quipped:- ‘How could they tell?’

    Sunak emerged from a three week absence and delivered his 5 promises, which turned out to be 6.

    The Sixth?

    Force every student to study maths until they are 18.
    What goes on inside this man’s head?

    Outlaw Trades Unions.
    Keep wages low.
    Reduce waiting times.

    You get the drift.

    He is preparing the English Health Service for privatisation.

    That’s why he nipped over to the States to chat to private ‘health providers’.

    Then, from the same deepest East London corner of England, Starmer emerged delivering Broon’s Think Tank pledges.

    You may recall my earlier comment on Here (6th Dec 22?) on The Clunking Fist’s Federal/Mayors for Scotland 140 page Book of Nonsense?

    With permission, I reproduce an abstract of that comment below,

    “Blair’s Cool Britannia rehashed new conservatism which Brown decrees will distinguish Strarmer’s Red Tory Government from the two extremes. Nicola Sturgeon and the Nats and the Brit status quo of the Blue Tories.

    Only it doesn’t, does it?
    Brexit, Trident, FPTP two party rule from London, but Scotland gets to run its own Buroos.

    Cameron Clegg Miliband, Osborne, Balls, and Danny Alexander.

    All gone on to pastures new, and coining in brown envelope wealth.

    But Broon is still standing, deluded, lying, and coining it in.

    The new breed, Starmer, Sunak, and..no, I’ve forgotten who’s running the Lib Dems now, are merely dusting down the old song books, and churning out the same lies and a list of promises to break.

    Brown’s declares that 50,000 civil service jobs will be moved out of London and allocated to the ‘regions’.

    As oft happens, Duggers, we recall an episode of ‘Yes, Prime Minister’, ‘Power to the People’, in an attempt to make sense of this latest bout of madness from this sad old man Brown.
    In this episode, while the Cabinet Secretary Sir Humphrey Appleby and his predecessor Sir Arnold Robinson, who are concerned about the prime minister’s plans to reform local government due to political opposition from one local council, believing that it would result in regional government and, as they would argue, a series of ill-considered policy decisions, and relocate Whitehall departments to the regions, they discuss ‘the politician’s syllogism’, a fallacy invented by the writers of Yes Minister’ which has subsequently entered the real wold of politics.
    The fictional mandarins held that doing nothing is better than letting their politicians do something.
    We can only imagine the uproar Brown’s Vow II must have caused in the real Corridors of Power, Whitehall.
    The ‘politician’s fallacy’ was humorously described as :-

    ‘To improve things, things must change.
    We are changing things.
    Therefore we are improving things.’ ”

    And this was Starmer yesterday.

    Even Brown wouldn’t dare mention PFI partnerships with the private sector to save England’s NHS. Starmer did. How very Sunak of him.

    There won’t be a big government cheque book when Starmer mounts the throne.
    No more sticking plasters.
    Just more of the same.
    The poor will pay, the rich will sail off into Non Dom Cayman Island heaven.

    Starmer sees Scotland as just another region of England.
    To level up Scotland, we are to be reduced to a region of England, with mayors and Morrice Dancing no doubt.

    Brexit is here to stay, whether we Scots like it or no’.
    Suck it up?

    Sunak/Starmer…the choice?
    They are both Arch Right Wing Tories…

    Come of Anas..what’s your view on Brexit, privatising PFI-ing the NHS, making strikes illegal?

    There is no Labour Party left, in England, Scotland, anywhere.
    13 years of Tory misrule, are to be followed by 5 years of Red Tory more of the same?

    The Labour Movement in Scotland is dead.
    How could they tell?

    • barpe says:

      Brilliant , as usual, Jack!

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      Absolutely brilliant Jack….hope you and yours are well .

      Maths compulsory until 18 ????

      I was useless at Maths at school and hated it….I had no interest in it at all and had no competence in understanding it…..English however was a subject I was very good at ……my brother was very good at both…he got the brains and I got the brawn…LOL

      How soul destroying will it be to compel school kids to do this when some of them will not achieve the standard or qualification required that will benefit them in future life…..this reeks of a desperate politician seeking SOMETHING or ANYTHING to announce to save his premiership and his party and who cares not a jot for the consequences of this flawed and desperate action to announce such a policy especially considering the desperate state of the English education system just now ( lack of funding, lack of teachers through retention and recruitment, School support staff are dipping into their own pockets to help pay for food, stationery and uniforms for needy pupils and some English schools are predicted to run out of money this year) ….typical Tory UK not OK…….

      With the current dire state of their UK one wonders who is actually DOING the MATHS at Tory HQ ?

      Have a nice day Jack

      🙂

      • If Sunak is ‘x’, and Starmer is ‘y’, it follows that x-y = 0
        Discuss.
        Take care, NMRN.

      • Gariochquine says:

        Much of the maths they attempted to teach me at school has proved completely irrelevant for adult life. Not once can I recall needing trigonometry or calculus to deal with life’s ordinary problems.

      • JP58 says:

        Where are all the extra maths teachers going to come from.
        How is Rishi going to attract the extra teachers – he is going to have to pay for it and probably pay them more.
        Oops!

  12. Dr Jim says:

    Just when Scotland is on the brink of becoming Scotland in the world, both Labour and Tory conspire to keep us even more a region of England submerging and isolating us from the rest of the world, they’ve taken enough from us and it’s got to stop

    I really don’t care how it’s done but Scotland mustn’t allow this to continue

  13. Capella says:

    Tories won’t pay a living wage but will pay for “scabs”.

    Strikes: ‘Immoral’ new legislation condemned by SNP and union bosses

    THE SNP have condemned in the “strongest possible terms” Conservative anti-strike laws which could see unions sued by employers if they fail to provide minimum levels of service during walk-outs.

    The UK Government has announced it is pressing ahead with introducing a bill to Parliament in the next few weeks which, it says, will ensure minimum safety levels during industrial action for services including health, education, fire and rescue, transport, border security and nuclear.

    It said vital public services will be able to maintain a “basic function” when workers go on strike.

    In a written statement, Grant Shapps confirmed the safety net of minimum service levels was designed “to ensure that the public are not put at risk during strike action is the best way of balancing the ability to strike, while protecting the wider public”.

    He also confirmed that the reforms would allow agency workers “to fill vital staffing gaps caused by industrial strike action”.

    https://archive.fo/EpZW9

    • Dr Jim says:

      It’s imperative to keep the workers in their place no matter the cost

      British ideology

      • Capella says:

        I think they are into a “who governs Britain” narrative as Thatcher did in the early 80s. We have to all make sure that it isn’t the Tories in Westminster – and not Labour either.

  14. Capella says:

    But don’t look to Labour for answers, says Richard Walker.

    It’s time to get the indyref ball rolling while Labour ignore Scotland

    British politics offers nothing to counter the discredited myth that the benefits of economic growth will trickle down to the pockets of those who need it the most. Faced with Sunak’s vapid plan of inaction, Labour have looked for an inspiring and hopeful alternative and found their cupboard to be bare, the shelves stocked only with yet more tired cliches.

    Keir Starmer yesterday urged a new type of British politics, an alternative to a Westminster which has been part of the problem rather than the solution, an end to what he described as “sticking plaster” politics. Starmer may be right in identifying Westminster as the source of the problem but he refuses to even consider the one solution which would really tackle that problem.

    When he says Westminster must give power away, he does not mean to Scotland and its people and he does not mean real power

    https://archive.fo/RhQya

    • James Mills says:

      Starmer wants to ”Take back Control ” and change the UK – except he doesn’t really , does he ?
      The simplest and easiest way of ”changing” the UK is to reform the voting system for Westminster .
      Abolish FPTP and introduce a more democratic system of PR – none are perfect but all are better than what we have .

      But Starmer and his brood in the Labour ( sic ) Party will never give this house room as they believe that THEY will form the next Westminster dictatorship – so they can wield the power that the Tories do at present .
      ”Change in the UK ” is a chimera , a nice sound bite – but no more than that as far as this crowd of red Tories are concerned .

      Look at their record in opposition ( sic ) to the present gang of reprobates .
      How often did they vote for or abstain when legislation was brought forward to undermine the social fabric or the Welfare system of the UK ?

      How many of them have taken the ”Queen’s /King’s Shilling ” and went to the House of Horrors to continue supporting the very Establishment that the Labour Party was created to destroy ?

      How often have Labour ( sic ) MSPs/MPs derided and undermined the SNP Government’s attempts to introduce in Scotland the very policies that a Labour Government should be implementing ?

      Don’t look to Starmer or his millionaire poodle in Scotland to implement anything remotely resembling real Labour policies – they are both cheeks of the same Anas !

      • Capella says:

        You misspelt (sick) – twice 🤮

        • Saw what you did there, Capella.
          Starmer’s ‘change’ speech was a ‘pun’ o’ mince, too.
          The ‘country’ is of course England and its conquered territories.

          It is hoped that Sturgeon asks Sarwar if he supports Brexit and ‘the hard choices’ which Starmer will inflict on the Working Class when he gains power, at FMQ next week.
          While she’s at it, can she ask Dross where we are going to get apprentice plumbers, electricians, joiners, and farm hands in the future if they are all ‘staying on’ at school until 18 wrestling with quadratic equations and String Theory?

          It is clear that Sunak and Starmer are so detached from the real world because of their wealth and privilege in the London bubble, that England will continue to collapse into 3rd world obscurity no matter which of them ‘the Market’ allows to run ‘Singapore on the Thames’.

          Both are completely out of touch with reality.
          Millions of Uk citizens are scared witless, yet these two buffoons chunter on about ‘change’.
          By April, when tens of millions simply can’t pay fuel bills, what happens then?

          • JoMax says:

            ‘ …. if they are all ‘staying on’ at school until 18 wrestling with quadratic equations and String Theory?’

            Well, Jack, he could be on to something. The study of String Theory could lead to their better understanding of Dark (Money) Matter, Dark Energy (nae lights or heating) and how to predict the next Big Bung.

      • Capella says:

        Seriously, who could possibly drum up any enthusiasm for Labour! I can understand that people in England feel they have no choice, but Wales does and Northern Ireland does and we certainly do.

        • Dr Jim says:

          That’s the point though isn’t it, three countries of the Great British UK of England dictatorship don’t agree with the one (England) yet England by weight of numbers rules
          That’s not democracy, it’s just a bigger English gang throwing their weight around pretending it’s legal

      • Dr Jim says:

        Yeah but English democracy is based on overall one party control or it can’t eh, what do they call it now? govern

        If England were some African country the British media would be condemning it in the strongest of terms all day long as some kind of banana dictatorship

  15. Some folks getting all ‘But Scots want their cake and eat it!’ about this…

    CTA has full English backing. It doesn’t just benefit the Irish.

    How can there not be some sort of cross-border pension agreement when everyone in Scotland is paying into the UK scheme? If you are retired, it is London who collected all your pension payments and they’ll be responsible for this whichever country you retire too, Scotland included. Only new entrants would be 100% the responsibility of the Scottish government.

    Same for passports. The rules for a British passport are clear as day. You eligible for one now? You will be after indy too. How could that not be the case without stripping all expat Brits of that right?

    Welfare = pension idiots. Also NHS. I totally agree British / English people (who e.g. have opted not to take up a Scots passport) post indy should have access to welfare, the NHS etc in Scotland. I’d hope the rUK reciprocates. They do this mutually with Ireland.

    Common diplomacy approach is what, erm, the EU has. Also the British-Irish council. Even the UK with the EU now on matters of mutual interest, such as Russia…

    EU is moving to an EU defence force. A UK defence pact would make a lot of sense. If England was invaded, it’s not as if we could just stand back and watch. Just no overseas jollies after oil for England please! And take your nukes off our land thanks.

    And the biggest irony of all, is that those wanting to ‘pool and share’ on these issues are mainly British/English no voters in Scotland, not ‘Scots’…

    • Golfnut says:

      A single British defence force, are you off your trolley?

      • The question falls down as there’s no explanation as to what that means. It’s possible to have your own army and contribute to a single defense force. That’s what NATO is and the EU plans. That makes some sense.

        The person being polled should not be able to read the question differently, which is absolutely the case here, rendering it pretty pointless. You have read it as keeping the British army. Others will have read it as I suggest. So you end up with a miss mash that really doesn’t tell you anything.

        Note yes voters are actually opposed as they’ll have tended to read it as you did.

        My main point was that this poll was a unionist exercise in silliness. The passports question is case in point. People in Scotland can’t be stopped from keeping a British passport. That’s basically impossible post indy. Their kids can get one too. Which means their kids kids and so forth….

        • Golfnut says:

          The question isn’t ambiguous SS, it states clearly ‘ a single British armed forces ‘. You need to think through what that would mean in practical terms and you might start with Trident and Westminster s intended future operational area’s ( Asia and the Middle East).

          • What does a ‘single EU defence force’ mean? No individual armies? Single force can mean not a dual force.

            Sorry, but what is meant is not explained. It might imply no Scottish army at all (as you read it), but it doesn’t specify that. If Scotland was independent, its armed forces would not be controlled by London, but any joint force would be equally controlled. That’s implicit with independence. No independent country’s armed forces are ultimately controlled by a neighbour.

            Or is Scotland actually independent? Because the question says ‘whatever happens constitutionally’ rather than ‘If Scotland becomes and independent country’. So it’s mixing independence with devo max with devo current with devo min with direct rule. It’s a total mess of a poll.

            If you want to ask what Scots want defence wise post indy, you need something like this:

            If Scotland becomes an independent country, what would be your preference for defence:
            – Keeping a single British Army only
            – Scotland having its own independent Scottish Army
            – Scotland having its own independent Scottish Army while contributing to a combined British defence force.

            Unfortunately, we don’t have recent data for this type of questioning, but the third option would probably come out tops. Only hardcore unionists would opt for the fantasy first option, which in reality is impossible.

            And that’s something to keep in mind. Hardcore unionists will not answer such questions sensibly. Many of these will say they want to keep the ‘British Army’ controlled by London even though that’s impossible with independence as it would not be indy, but devo max of some form. IT’s because they don’t want indy ever so will always answer in the most anti-indy way they can, even if stupid.

            • Golfnut says:

              I think rather than ponder what kind of question should be asked, we should be trying to determine the motivation behind such a survey. It’s only a few days since a newspaper carried banner headlines that Scotland wouldn’t be allowed to keep its army, I know what army? the sheer arrogance and contempt for Scotland displayed by that statement is a disgrace.

              • Bob Lamont says:

                No offence Golfnut but is this thread not demonstrating precisely what the motivation was, a diversion to the immediate issues, alternative realities much as “illegal immigrants” etc. elsewhere ?

                • Golfnut says:

                  You may well be right Bob but I have a feeling that if you consider the questions asked and perhaps more importantly the responses, there may be more sinister purpose to this poll.

                  • Bob Lamont says:

                    Correct, but all the more reason we should not go chasing THEIR squirrels, the torches and pitchforks game….

    • James Mills says:

      Who the f*ck would want to ”invade ” England ? Is that all these wee migrant boats doing a D Day in reverse ?
      Suella Braverman would be standing on the beach with her pitchfork and backed by Rees Mogg’s Dad’s Army , so why would they need us ?

  16. Dr Jim says:

    If England were invaded the tragedy would be the annoying constant moaning about it on the news, other than that meh
    I mean none of us could say they didn’t have it coming

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