An insult to damp squibs

There’s been a bit of time now to properly digest the latest offering from Gordie Broon and his big bag of vows, but you know that no one has been remotely whelmed by it when not even the Gordie Broon Fan Flub, otherwise known as BBC Scotland news, can be bothered to lead with it on either its lunchtime or Evening news programmes, preferring to lead with a story about dualling the A9. Calling it a damp squib is an insult to water soaked fireworks, which can at least be coaxed into a farting noise after being dried out, Labour is more like a firework at the bottom of the Mariana Trench which is not just thoroughly drenched, but crushed out of recognition by the weight of seven miles depth of water.

Of course the BBC wasn’t going to ignore Labour’s big announcement entirely, even though there’s as much chance of them actually seeing the light of day as there is of Gordie admitting that he ran away and hid and failed dismally to ensure that his 2014 Vow was implemented in full as he promised he would. When the piece was announced the presenter said: “I warn you that it contains… ” and I thought that she was going to say in a rare outbreak of constitutional honesty from BBC Scotland … “grade A bollocks delivered by a discredited liar.” But no, it was flash photography that we really had to be wary about.

It was so dire that not even BBC Scotland’s Glenn Campbell could muster up any enthusiasm for the new proposals, pointing out that they did not even go as far as the Labour manifesto commitments in 2019, never mind rehashing some of the promises made in 2014 such as the commitment to ensure that the powers of the Scottish Parliament are made safe from potential meddling from a future Conservative Prime Minister who is hostile to devolution. It was difficult to escape the conclusion that even BBC Scotland knows that the Labour party is merely going through the motions and the real purpose of these proposals is not to have something which can be implemented, but just to have a story to tell the voters of Scotland, a story that can conveniently go the same way as the Vow and previous Labour proposals to reform the Lords the moment that Starmer gets into Number Ten.

The BBC put up a protective cordon around Starmer, Brown, and Sarwar and did not ask them why we should believe that this time they are going to deliver something that Labour actually vowed to deliver in 2014 only for the UK Supreme Court to rule in no uncertain terms that it was a constitutional impossibility in a UK in which the sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament is deemed to be absolute and in which no Parliament can bind the hands of its successors. So given this constitutional and legal framework, which Brown’s proposals notably did not address, how exactly does Labour propose to ensure that a future Conservative government which is hostile to devolution does not attempt to undermine or by-pass the devolution settlement without the express consent of Holyrood. The BBC did not see fit to ask.

This is not a hypothetical question either. The Sewel convention, which says that the Parliament of the United Kingdom will not legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament was written into the Scotland Act, albeit with the addition of the weasel word ‘normally’ but that has proven no defence against successive Conservative governments determined to use Brexit as as excuse to hollow out the devolution settlement. So how exactly is it going to be different this time round?

You might think that if Labour was at all serious about putting these proposals before the people of Scotland as an alternative to independence they might have a credible answer to that question, but there has been no mention of it, if indeed it exists, and the BBC and the anti-independence Scottish media do not appear overly concerned about pressing them on it.

Even senior figures in the Labour party are unimpressed by this plan or more accurately a plan to consult on a plan. Labour peers have warned Starmer not to waste political capital on an issue which they claim is of limited interest to voters. Former senior Labour advisor David Clark was deeply unimpressed, writing on Twitter: “I’m surprised and disappointed at how unambitious this is. It isn’t even quasi-federalism. More tinkering with the Heath Robinson contraption of the British state will create new anomalies without resolving the pressures pulling the UK apart.”

The proposals do not help Scotland restore closer ties with the EU, a few months ago Anas Sarwar said that 300,000 Scottish jobs depend upon British membership of the Single Market, this week Keir Starmer says there’s no case for rejoining the Single Market, and Anas Sarwar says nothing.

Starmer also finds himself exposed to a charge of hypocrisy. Just a couple of weeks ago Starmer dismissed the Scottish First Minister’s plan to use the next General Election as a de facto independence referendum, saying issues at a national poll cannot “be reduced by somebody else into a completely different constitutional question”. But that is precisely what Starmer is proposing, claiming a Labour victory in the General Election, even a victory in which Labour fails to win more than half of votes cast, would give him a mandate for far reaching constitutional change. He will claim this mandate even as he continues to deny that the Scottish Parliament has a mandate for another referendum. British nationalist double standards strike again.

Starmer denies Scotland a referendum on the basis of his claim that voters are more interested in bread and butter issues than the constitution, but insists that his constitutional proposals are necessary in order to deliver on those bread and butter issues while denying the exact same claim made by independence supporters about the necessity for independence in order to deliver on bread and butter issues.

A constitutional proposal for more consultations which puts Scotland on the same par as the English regions and mayorships. Yeah that will really win back hacked of Scottish voters angry that they have been lied to about the nature of the UK as a voluntary union. Especially when the proposal is being made by one of the politicians who has been doing the lying. Starmer used this launch to pontificate about allowing the people and not politicians to make the decisions while still refusing to allow Scotland to decide for itself whether it wants a referendum.

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57 comments on “An insult to damp squibs

  1. James Mills says:

    Starmer’s proposals for ”change” will go the same way as his 10 ”pledges” to Labour members when he was running for the Labour Leadership – dumped as soon as he won !
    A man of principle – like Groucho !

  2. Did north British Broon mention this in proposals?

    Why not make them wear badges of some sort too? Go the whole hog!

    https://archive.ph/7eR5y

    Keir Starmer says there is a case for GPS tagging some asylum seekers

    A coalition of charities warned a month ago that the policy amounts to ‘psychological torture’

    We need to leave. Now.

  3. It was so dire that not even BBC Scotland’s Glenn Campbell could muster up any enthusiasm for the new proposals, pointing out that they did not even go as far as the Labour manifesto commitments in 2019, never mind rehashing some of the promises made in 2014 such as the commitment to ensure that the powers of the Scottish Parliament are made safe from potential meddling from a future Conservative Prime Minister who is hostile to devolution.

    Aye, that’s exactly the impression I’ve got in terms of media reception. They know that Scots won’t buy this s***e from Labour again. Too many broken promises, not least the vow / Smith commission.

  4. yesindyref2 says:

    The 3 of them are like 3 has-beens tying to resurrect Multi Coloured Swap Shop without Maggie, and without a phone.

    • How must the Lone Gunman Jack suited Murray, supposedly Shadow Sec of State Up Here in the Northern Territory feel, when he is no invited to share the podium with Broon starmer and the List MSP Millionaire Dentist?
      Perhaps the sight of this wee nobody would prompt awkward questions…there are more pandas that Labour MPs Up Here.
      Brown Book of Nonsense is given Emperor’s New Clothes coverage by the obedient Jock hacks and broadcasters.
      It is a ridiculous document by any standard.
      But not one pundit has come out and said so.
      Now that’s a totalitarian state.
      We’ll miss this nonsense when we shut down their precious Union. Not.

  5. jfngw says:

    That’s quite a sell they are needing to pull off, not only have we told you are in effect prisoners to England’s wishes but they are going to effectively remove Scotland as a country.

    The similarities of how they tried to impose Englishness on Ireland over 100 year ago are just indistinguishable. The English parliament will never change, it wants power and control over other countries whether they agree or not.

  6. Guardian concluding along the same lines!

    https://archive.ph/IoNHZ

    Will Labour really axe the Lords, that laughing stock of democracy? I’ll believe it when I see it

    How could you believe a word hard right migrant hating brexiteer Starmer says when he’s backtracked on pretty much every promise he’s made?

  7. Brian Watson says:

    Don’t think the Eminence Brune is going to spark many epiphanies with this flaccid effort .

    • grizebard says:

      “Eminence Brune” – commendably witty – chapeau!

      The picture that then sprang to (my) mind was scatological, but on further consideration, not inappropriate either.

  8. JP58 says:

    Please ask every Labour politician to justify why when the electorate of Scotland vote in a Parliament at Holyrood with biggest ever majority for an independence referendum (under PR) it is appropriate that the government at Westminster in reality voted in by electorate in England can veto Holyrood wishes.
    They will bluster but this is fundamentally undemocratic and cannot be justified unless you think Scotland is not politically a nation in its own right.
    The latest offering from Gordon Brown emphasises this point by again imposing the Westminster version of democracy on Holyrood. Like most other things with Labour up here it is all about what benefits Labour and very little about what benefits Scotland. Like many other former Labour voters I have worked this out in last 10 years and is quite a contrast to Welsh Labour Party approach so it is a conscious decision by Scottish’ Labour.
    Hell mend them.

  9. Dennis Smith says:

    The UK has no single written constitution. According to the pundits, the UK constitution comprises some written statutes which are deemed (by some pundit or other) to have special constitutional significance, plus some unwritten conventions, which can be changed whenever anyone with executive power chooses to change them. (Anyone remember Boris Johnson as PM?)

    As a result, no one knows for certain what is and is not in the UK constitution. It all depends on who is currently holding the mike (or taking the mickey). The nearest thing to a standard interpretation derives from A.V. Dicey in the 19th century who claimed that absolute sovereignty is vested in a mythological many-headed beast called the Crown-in-Parliament. Any C-in-P can do anything, including annulling anything that any previous C-in-P has done.

    This is why, as WGD says, the Supreme Court summarily dismissed the idea that the powers of the Scottish Parliament were constitutionally entrenched by the Scotland Act 2016. This idea was constitutional nonsense, and was known to be nonsense when it was enacted. The 2014 vow was constitutionally illiterate, and Brown’s new proposals are equally illiterate.

    There is no way, on the standard Diceyan story, in which the Westminster parliament can permanently reform itself. It is built on a fairy-tale notion of sovereignty that will always evade democratic debate and decision-making. The C-in-P beast has magical powers of shape-shifting that lie beyond law and reason.

    The only route to permanent reform lies through an explicit commitment to democratic sovereignty – rule of the people by the people for the people. And that raises questions – who are the people? What constitutes a people? – that mainstream politicians and journalists refuse to engage with.

    • Capella says:

      Spot on. What’s more – this invisible constitution is a RESERVED matter. So don’t you go interfering with the Enigma or bad things will happen. 😱

    • grizebard says:

      The resolution to this constitutional Gordian Knot is simple and obvious. Bin it and start again, in our own country and on our own terms. (What the English do or don’t do about the abomination afterwards is their problem. They alone own it.)

      • Old Pete says:

        Exactly, vote for Independence is the only sure way to dump these idiots and there shenanigans.

  10. James Mills says:

    Starmer , Sarwar and Brown are the political equivalent of the law firm –
    Lye , Cheatem ,and Howe !

  11. Bob Lamont says:

    I’m convinced any reference to Scotland is incidental to Vow2, England’s politics and media mirage is collapsing.

    Broon has recycled Vow1 to con England’s electorate much as he did the Scots in 2014, in that public anger over being ignored by “democratic” process can be deflected by dusting off the federalism fairy from the bottom of the pile and tucking the “read the small print” reminder onto the top of the pile for it’s next outing.

    England’s politics has veered off piste to majority opinion and folks are increasingly angry at being abused – Ring a bell ?
    The excuse of Starmer taking his Brexit stance to entice red-wall seats simply doesn’t hold water when over 60% of England want Brexit reversed, ditto his opposition to IR2 when again ca 60% support that democratic right.

    When the binary choice of England’s Political Party is at odds with popular opinion, when propaganda from the media is increasingly being seen for what it is, when entirely justified strikes are blamed on Putin rather than UK government, when the choice to heat or eat is dictated by political policy, folks are demanding REAL change not “look at the small print” change.

    In short, if ye olde wolde order seeks to prevail, hence there is indeed trouble ahead in England – We’re well out of it by seeking independence with the blessings of 60% of England, and can send international aid…

  12. John Rutherford says:

    Great article as per usual! Broon completely nailed! Love the wit in the 1st paragraph. Nearly choked on my mug of tea..laughing so much! Brilliant!!

  13. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    There is , and I include myself in this, a strong awareness that there are many decent people in England who support us in having the right to have another independence referendum. Many of these people are sick of the Tories and see very clearly who they are and what they represent and for them it is a bleak future thus they see Labour as THE only REAL political alternative for them in England. I have no problem with that as that is democracy and let’s be honest the choice open to English people in who they have to vote for in a GE is very limited as to who wins power and then governs in their UK.

    Indeed there are some prominent and well liked Twitter accounts who often , or rather constantly, like to highlight the many flaws and failures connected to both the Tories and Brexit.

    One of these accounts is called Supertanskiii…..she states in her Twitter bio that she is a Labour supporter…..she has over 120 thousands followers on twitter and is frequently retweeted by many Scottish independence peeps on Twitter as she is perceived as someone who is both amusing and on the button about both the Tories and Brexit…..

    However her mask slipped recently via subsequent tweets she tweeted based on a tweet she tweeted on Gordon Brown…she is seen as someone who is incisive, amusing tolerant, fair and open to varied opinions (hence her many followers) …………but is she really ?

    She tweeted :

    “It’s so unbelievably reassuring to have Gordon Brown back. If anyone can help fix the economic abyss caused by the Tories and clean up politics, he can. The man is a giant”.

    This resulted in a backlash from Scottish peeps who advised her that in Scotland , Brown was not all that she perceived him to be. Thus with non abusive tweets in response to her Tweet some Scottish peeps gave her a few examples and home truths regarding Gordon Brown and his past Scottish interventions that many people hoped would enlighten her so that she would understand why many in Scotland did not share her belief that Brown was a “Giant” and one who could “ help fix the economic abyss caused by the Tories and clean up politics”…..

    However rather than graciously concede that she was unaware of many of the examples highlighted regarding Brown in 2014 and beyond in respect to Scotland and independence she instead chose to dig her heels in and display a far LESS tolerant, more unfair and hostile closed mind towards Scots who did not, like her, support either Labour or Gordon Brown.

    Her subsequent tweets on this to Scots were as follows :

    “Every time I tweet my personal admiration for Gordon Brown it’s like a f*cking air raid siren goes off in Scotland”.

    “I know why! I get the same sh*t all over my tweets every time but I’m ENGLISH and stating my personal opinion of Brown. I don’t wade in to SNP / Indy Ref Twitter shouting about how this could cause us all to have another Tory government and f*ck our chances”.

    “I stated MY opinion on Brown, you guys have made this all about Scotland, again”.

    “He’s not a liar and all this is easy for you to say, you have an alternative to the two parties. Meanwhile 999 here is engaged, kids are passing out hungry at school and if you get in an accident/have a health emergency you’ll probably die due to those c**ts in power. Enough “

    THEN having tweeted her various versions of ‘Eat your porridge’ and ‘Shut up Jocks’ (as she was talking about ENGLAND and what it needs and wants) against various Scottish ORDINARY people .who were NOT abusive to HER in their responses , but who were simply providing her with their version of the REAL Gordon Brown as they knew him…..she conceded ….only AFTER….a Scottish female comedian enlightened her…..her tweet was then this :

    “A message for the Scottish folk.

    I understand why you feel as you do, we have different experiences of Brown. Thanks to the brilliant @susie McCabe for explaining it clearly.

    I love Scottish people. I’ve always supported your right to choose. If I had my way you’d get your vote”

    Well that’s nice it only took someone Scottish who had a higher profile than ordinary Scots to get through to Supertanskiii to convince her on Gordon Brown and Scotland…..she loves us apparently and if she had her way we would ‘GET’ our vote……but we won’t ‘GET’ our vote with the political party SHE supports will we i.e. Labour……..and we also will NOT get back into the EU either via HER preferred political party as in Labour…but hey she only wants the Tories OUT in ENGLAND and we could “spoil” that by all this “ SNP / Indy Ref Twitter shouting”…..but she doesn’t “wade in” then does she and prior to Susie McCabe’s intervention we, Scots, were going to spoil that as we , according to her tweet made it , as per, “ all about Scotland again”…….

    How easy and quick was she to dismiss ordinary Scots opinion on Gordon Brown and indeed her #Anglosplaining conclusion was that we were, big YAWN from her, making it “all about Scotland again”.

    How easy is it for her to support Labour while ignoring their position on Brexit.

    How easy it is for many, like her, to applaud and celebrate a Lib Dem victory in a English by- election.

    Well very easy because like many prominent Twitter users who comment on UK politics and who hate the Tories and who have constantly highlighted the negatives and madness of Brexit they, like her, see Labour and the Lib Dems too, as the lesser evil compared to the Tory party……Scotland , Wales and NI are minor considerations compared to the country they live in and their future as too are the SNP as a political party to them……so less of what Scotland wants and think of us in England they say and get with THE (our) programme please….seems to be the (their) message.

    Plus then her favoured party Labour support Tory Brexit, also their position in regards to immigration is indistinct from the Tories position indeed you could argue they are more aggressive on this as Rachel Reeves cited “the lack of deportations” is “12 years of Tory failure” , Labour in Scotland are in coalition in Scottish councils with the Tory party, their HQ announcement of supposedly abolishing the HOL (promised before by them but never done by them) is now being condensed PRIOR to their gaining power as it is now being promoted as changing it to an ‘elected upper chamber’ indeed the list on negatives in supporting Labour is endless….

    So Supertanskiii do not try and school us Scots on Gordon Brown and the Labour party……there is a reason they as a party have but one MP in Scotland , and his election was via Tory tactical voting, as we Scots ken them as a party and HIM too only too well. I believe there is a well used GIF that promotes ‘ OUR business’ and ‘YOUR business’ and perhaps Supertanskiii needs to realise that as she obviously knows the square root of NOWT on Scotland and it’s politics……Perhaps it would be better that she did not criticise and dismiss our opinions so readily and instead absorbed OUR collective wisdom and experience upon Brown and Labour as both a truth and a real lived experience…..and then she could concentrate more on what she does know best, or rather as she promotes via Twitter, that is politics in England via HQ Labour…..and also upon other British Nationalist political parties…..

    Though I suspect that what she and many others REALLY want is for Scots to vote Labour in the next GE……and that is the REALITY we see when their masks slip……the fact that she states she hopes we “GET” our chance to vote on independence confirms that we cannot have it without their permission …is she fine with that ?……we need permission via a British Nationalist political party who are in power at WM…..and that is NOT a Union, not democracy and perhaps why the ‘air raid sirens” should REALLY be “going of in Scotland”…..thanks goes to Susie McCabe for putting her right….pity ordinary Scots were ignored who I suspect made the very SAME points Susie made on Brown……Brown an unelected individual whose influence and input in politics today via the Labour party is quite ridiculous and unexplainable considering he is in NO position of ACTUAL power to dictate to people what he wants to see in his UK in the future…other than having the ear of a weak current Labour HQ leader desperate, like the Tories , to keep Scotland in a NON Union……that’s Brown’s ONLY use to them…..to con the Scots…again.

    Why does Scotland now , as they say, need MORE change if, as Brown and t’others say, they fulfilled ALL promises made via the Vow to Scotland in 2014…..via a supposed ,but now evidently NOT , broad shouldered UK…..aye indeed How now Brown Vow……

    We have Mansplaining, Metrosplaining plus many other types of ‘splaining’ too and to add to the mix Twitterspaining via sources that present themselves as ‘liberal’ individuals….but only ‘liberal’ on their terms on things that impact THEM…..they know best….and if challenged they will bite and thus all the illusion of their supposed tolerance, fairness and inclusiveness falls away…to reveal…well that they are no different from those they say they oppose and hate….who knew…who indeed ……aye.

    • DonDon says:

      Thanks for that rant, NMRN. I had never heard of that twitter account before.
      Have you been taking it easy for a few days?

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        @ DonDon

        Yeh scaling back with me comments frequency….so that’s a relief for some I’m sure LOL……..still engaged in reading others comments on here though…….

        Re Twitter account she is very popular and is followed by a few Indy peeps….

        She like others have a blind spot as far as Labour are concerned…..refusing to see the many downsides to Labour…but then I guess for them the thinking is that politically…beggars cannot be choosers…..I’d go for the Greens if I lived in England…..all other parties not worth voting for IMO.

        Have a nice evening DonDon

        🙂

    • grizebard says:

      “It’s so unbelievably reassuring to have Gordon Brown back.” {cough, splutter, roll eyes} This desperate online Labourite has a serious awareness lacuna and/or a short memory span. Probably a kid when he last failed to run the UK. (Now he just pretends to.) Well, England is welcome to the conclusion-deficient poseur, if more than her will have him. Which I doubt, since many others do remember, and realise he will achieve sweet FA for them, including over Brexit. After a year or so of a new plague of evaporating assurances, even she will have buyers’ regret.

    • ArtyHetty says:

      I saw that on twitter, and just blocked. For some, mainly in England, Labour can do wrong whatsoever…and they still believe that Scotland should vote Labour or it’s yet another myth of ‘you’s let the Tories in’. Labour apologists use any reasoning to excuse Labours’ right wing stance now, even some saying it’s just a ruse to get votes then they really will be socialist again, sigh.

      England is effectively a one party state, the people have little choice in elections now, and much as many might agree that Scotland should have a choice about independence, there are many who do not like the SNP (for reasons they cannot explain) and would be perfectly happy for Scotland to be thrown to the dogs by Labour UK.

      Scotland needs out of their UK as soon as possible, before they dismantle Holyrood.

  14. Hamish100 says:

    “Calling it a damp squib is an insult to water soaked fireworks, which can at least be coaxed into a farting noise after being dried out”
    Labour Party members should ensure an appropriate risk assessment is carried out by Lord Fartes sorry Foulkes prior to any demonstration.

  15. A day for celebration.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63865195

    Irish Free State: Foundation marked 100 years on

    It is 100 years since the creation of the 26-county Irish Free State.

    Northern Ireland had the option of joining the newly-created state in December 1922 but chose not to do so.

    The new Irish state had executive powers and although a link with Britain remained, it was a step towards full independence – Ireland officially became a republic in 1949.

    The first day of the Irish Free State was 6 December 1922.

    This date was exactly a year after the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, which set out a new relationship between Britain and Ireland.

    But tinged with sadness as the British didn’t accept democracy, leading to a century of unnecessary division and strife in the north, with the British Belfast Wall causing far more deaths than the Berlin wall did. While Europe celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall, Britain celebrates the Building of the Belfast one.

    Seems some things have not changed, for now they don’t accept the ballot box in Scotland as it’s not been in their favour. Doing the same in the north of Ireland now they don’t hold power.

    Note ‘Anglo-Irish’ treaty. It was England that invaded and tried to overturn the 1918 election with the gun and bomb. Not Scotland nor Wales.

    But the end draws near and like Eire, we shall have our independence if we are willing to grasp the thistle. Our neighbours will support us against the aggressive government to our south, just as they are doing with the republic, but we need to show them it is our settled will.

  16. yesindyref2 says:

    So it was the Maverick against the Steady Hand, and the Maverick was elected by 26 votes to 17, one didn’t vote.

    I had favoured Flynn, but then swithered, and in the end I’m glad it wasn’t my choice. He does need to take the whole group with him.

    Yes, there are other issues, but in general the job of any SNP MP is Independence, and getting Referendums, and then representation on reserved issues, apart from when a devolved issue affects the budget.

    I think some forget that, and forget that it’s MSPs and the Scottish Government at Holyrood that have the duty for devolved issues. Not much point for instance on waffling on about education when it’s the England and Wales schools being discussed – unless that affects the block grant.

    • grizebard says:

      If the new SNP leader in WM (and those who voted for him) believe their primary role is to prolong their sojourn there rather than push for independence in the only democratic way now left, he & they had better think again. Fast.

      • Eilidh says:

        The amount of crap and abuse Snp Mps get at Wastemonster I doubt any of them are comfortable working there. The electorate do not understand what is reserved and what is not so will contact their Mp if they think it will help resolve their issue. The UK govt has stuck their nose into reserved issues so much through legislation like Internal Markets Bill it is hard to tell what is reserved and what is not. I will reserve judgement on Stephen Flynn as new leader in Westminster until I see what he is like at PMQs

        • grizebard says:

          Obviously, effective performances at PMQ’s will give us something to cheer, but playing Westminster’s game on its own pitch with its own biased ref only gets us so far.

          If some of them are afeared their place on the team there is put at risk by a plebiscite referendum, well, that’s a call above their pay grade. OTOH if they somehow manage to lever an S.30 order by suitable “guerrilla action”, I certainly won’t object.

          • Eilidh says:

            I don’t think causing a rammy in the Commons will get us a S30 order. A plebiscite election if Snp win 51% of the vote will put more pressure on whoever forms the next UK govt but in what way can we force an exit is unclear now we are being denied democracy per the SC decision What would happen legally if Snp won 51% of the electorate and declared we were withdrawing from the Treaty of Union.That is definitely unclear One or two folks seem to think if Snp Mps do more interesting stuff such as causing
            problems in the HOC blah blah it will force the Tories to rethink things.I have my doubts about that. It is part of Mps job to hold the government to account for the cost of living crisis and parts of the electorate are more likely to vote Labour if Snp don’t do that

            • grizebard says:

              Wise words all, though arguably it’s an MP’s constituency work which renders the real service rather than theatrical performance in front of the cameras of the chamber. But you’re basically correct, it all depends on how it meshes with the feeling of the MP’s constituents, and that must never be forgotten (as it so often is by the more impatient among us). If people are angry enough, expressing that in word and deed would be seen to be appropriate, otherwise wrecking tactics could badly misfire.

              It is indeed hard to be an SNP MP down there. In a way they’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        If he reads any of the forums, including WGD, he’s likely to realise that he’s in like Flynn till 2024, and the only way he’ll be re-elected then is if the SNP have twisted the arm of the Tories to come up with the S30 (or other) for Indy Ref 2 in Oct 23, in which case the SNP MPs will be needed to force through the post-YES Indy negotiations – or if it’s a plebisicite election in 24.

        “Holding the UK Government to account on foxhunting in England”, or making some pointless complaint about the Tories causing the cost of living crisis, isn’t going to cut it. It achieves precisely nothing, the Tories have a 65 seat majority, apart from hot air to add to the climate warming, and the SNP are not Labour, a UK party. They are Scottish.

        The UKSC mock judgement changed everything.

    • Golfnut says:

      Disappointed to hear that Mr Flynn intends to push for a referendum which I hope is only a stopgap position till conference gets round to telling him and the rest of us exactly how they intend to get us out of the union. To be honest, I cannot see any strategy working other than a vote on withdrawl from the Treaty of Union.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Depends how he does it. If he “subtly” says “Give us our referendum or say bye-bye to an orderly House of Commons”, then that’ll do for me 🙂

        • Golfnut says:

          They’ll just pish themselves laughing.

          • yesindyref2 says:

            Well, there are 45 SNP MPs, and all of them could table an amendment to any Bill going through the Commons.

            They can then make a speech in support of their amendment, and the MP while making the speech, can take short points from all the other 44 SNP MPs. Multiply that by 45 and the blah blah blah might not be met so much with ha ha ha! And if the points aren’t that short the Speaker will have to eventually interrupt – multiple times. Oh dear.

            Governments have a lot of legislation to get through in a parliamentary session; obstruction, such as also moving to hear the Bill in Private multiple times, could destroy that program of legislation.

            Points of order can help, and I daresay there are a lot of other things that can hinder the smooth working.

            • Golfnut says:

              Parliament can timelimit the passage of any bill, Ian Blackford very recently complained on that issue. Once the time is up, the votes taken.
              Personally I would rather see them remind parliament every time they stand to speak that the union Parliament was created by a Treaty between Scotland and England, that parliament is bound by Scots Constitutional law, that it is treason to undermine the claim of right and any Act passed by parliament detrimental to Scotland will be struck down as unlawful, including the Withdrawal Bill, by the Sovereign people of Scotland. That Scotland will seek redress for damage done to her industry and welfare, for the unlawful plunder of her resources and for the tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths and hardship caused by austerity and incompetence. They could even take turns at reading appropriate sections of the Treaty.
              They will be shouted down, screamed at by the speaker but they won’t be f##king laughed at.

  17. Dr Jim says:

    In a nutshell Sir Kier Starmer is saying *If England votes labour I’ll have a mandate to govern Scotland*

    Meanwhile in Scotland we did vote SNP and they did become the government because they asked us if we wanted a referendum and we said YES, but Sir Kier Starmer says * * Nicola Sturgeon does not have a mandate even though Scotland voted for it*

    So there’s yer Labour democracy right there, same as Tory democracy

    btw The McWile. E Coyote Acme company is now in full production

  18. Capella says:

    Business for Scotland spell out the pointlessness of the Broon Report and Labour.

    5 Things to know about this report and what it means for Scotland:

    1. Scotland gains no new major powers

    2. It doesn’t lay a path back into the EU for Scotland

    3. There’s no commitment to the reforms they’ve promised

    4. Federalism is unworkable for Scotland

    5. Labour will ignore the wishes of the people of Scotland

    https://www.believeinscotland.org/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-labours-latest-vow-on-constitutional-reform/

    • grizebard says:

      And besides the past, doesn’t protect us in the slightest from whatever future acts of international lunacy England wants that Scotland rejects.

  19. yesindyref2 says:

    The National has gone big on the Westminster leadership again:

    so it’s over to Flynn and Black, and as the first comment says: “Gloves are off in WM now” – don’t you just feel sorry for the Westminster establishment? Sorry, what was that you said?

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, Herald: “Blow for Sturgeon

      Blow the wind southerly, southerly, southerly.

      Scottish Conservative chairman: “… personal humiliation for the First Minister

      Ohhhhkay.

      … her rebellious Westminster MPs

      Yay! I can identify with that. Vive La Rebellion!

      Ian Murray “… two finger salute to Nicola Sturgeon

      I see he’s a fan of Churchill. Quite right Ian, dit dit dit dah.

      Disclaimer: quotes not neccessarily totally in context.

  20. Ken says:

    Nicola Sturgeon & Co are winning so are all the people who comment out to vote for them at every election. The Tory – unionists are finished. They will be out within a year or less.

    The Independistas hold the trump care. Those who support Independence need to come out and vote SNP at every election and take one person with them. Independence is in the bag, The majority I dependence supporters have to come out an£vote at every election. Not leave it to others an apathy. A higher Indy turnout to vote for the SNP. Indy will follow.

    The highest support is needed at every election. To vote the Unionist out, Then there will be no opposition. Independence is not just for Christmas but for life,

    Nicola Sturgeon and Co have the upper hand. They hold all the cards. Independistas need to follow their conviction and vote at every elections. A massive turnout, Indy is in sight. More than ever. It just needs people to come out and vot3 for it. Simple.Take one othe4 person.

    The three Labour stooges. See no evil, hear no evil, see no evil. Just Evel. A busted flush. Cheating and lying at every turn. People will not be taken in by them. Cheating and lying. Killing and maiming people. The Unionist lies kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. No Democracy. Just conspiring against the people. Breaking the Representation of the People’s Act. Conspicuous liars. It will end up at the UN International Courts.To call out the liars.

    Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence at ever election, with a high turnout. The best way to get it,

  21. Capella says:

    What Prof Curtice thinks about Labour calculations.

    “Starmer is calculating, or at least he has calculated, that he needs to accept Brexit in order to try to win back the Red Wall vote, although actually you do need to bear in mind that the majority of Labour voters in Red Wall seats are Remainers. Even so, it’s a substantial minority who are Leavers, and Labour did lose Leavers in 2019, all of that is true.

    “So Labour thinks they need to get these people back and therefore they would keep schtum [about Brexit]. Of course, that always meant they made a choice.

    “They made a choice about which Red Wall to try to regain: Was it the North of England Red Wall or the Scotland Red Wall? In going for the North of England Red Wall they basically had to give up on the Scotland Red Wall, although of course they will never admit it.”

    https://archive.ph/Kp2oA

    • Really need some full Scottish polls, but as noted the other day, my monitoring of UK poll subsamples suggest the Labour vote may be falling back post UKSC / Starmer going hard brexiteer. Post mini-budget boost may have been a flash in the pan. The same has happened in England; labour having fallen back from 56% to maybe 47% since post mini-peak.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      It is well worth reading the astute comment to that article by Thom Muir, predicting how the UK or rUK/EU relationship will change and thereby the Indy Scotland relationship with rUK.

      • Capella says:

        There are indeed some very insightful comments under that article. Michael Picken is also worth reading – I was tempted to copy and paste one of his comments on here but he might not like that!

  22. Ken says:

    In Westminster everything they say is recorded in writing. To try to stop them lying and trying to get out of it. Hold them to account. They try to get out of their duplicity and lying, by hiding their criminality under the Official Secrets Act and ‘D’ notices. To try and hide their illegal behaviour and lies. To try and stop exposure. Supposed to be for 30 years. Iraq, Lockerbie and Dunblane kept secret illegally for 100 years. Breaking democratic principles of disclosure. Westminster still at it. Internet comes in handy,for exposure.

  23. Ken says:

    Bacically Starmer is lying to get votes. He claims to support Brexit. Once elected he will concilliate with the EU and Scotland. He will have to compromise. He is lying to get elected. Then will betray the mandate. All the unionists do it. Betray the people. Not power to the people. A high turnout in Scotland will vote the unionist out. Independence and democracy will follow. There will be no opposition to stop it. An appeal to the UN International Courts would do it. No unionist opposition.

  24. Capella says:

    With a half life of 25,000 years the legacy will last millenia not centuries, as a comment points out. So once again we in Scotland pay for a technology which our government doesn’t want.

    UK’s Great British Nuclear plan to leave ‘toxic legacy for centuries’

    WESTMINSTER’S new “Great British Nuclear” government body will leave a “toxic legacy for centuries”, the Scottish Greens have warned.

    The Tories announced plans to launch and fund the new arms-length government body in order to “develop a resilient pipeline of new” nuclear projects across England.

    The UK Government has further announced that Sizewell C, a nuclear project on the Suffolk coast, will be the first to be paid for through the “Regulated Asset Base” (RAB) funding model.

    This model will see energy bill payers across the UK – including in Scotland where the elected government opposes the technology – pay more on top of already skyrocketing bills in order to fund the construction of the Suffolk plant.

    READ MORE: What is RAB and how will it affect future energy charges for Scots?

    As Great British Nuclear (GBN) identifies further nuclear projects to be funded through the RAB model, energy bills for UK consumers will rise still further.

    On top of paying for the nuclear sites through their energy bills, the UK Government has said it will invest £700 million of taxpayer money in building Sizewell C.

    https://archive.ph/evlJE

  25. #UKSC effect

    Anas Sarwar
    40(-6)% Satisfied
    37(+10)% Dissatisfied
    23(-4)% Don’t know
    NET = +3(-16)%

    Keir Starmer
    37(-1)% Satisfied
    50(+10)% Dissatisfied
    13(-9)% Don’t know
    NET = -13(-11)%

    Alex Cole Hamilton
    24(-4)% Satisfied
    40(+16)% Dissatisfied
    36(-10)% Don’t know
    NET = 16(-20)%

    Douglass Ross
    22(-2)% Satisfied
    60(+9)% Dissatisfied
    18(-7)% Don’t know
    NET = -38(-11)%

    What did they expect exactly? Scots patting them on the back for taking away their vote and forcing English rule on Scotland?

  26. […] Wee Ginger Dug thinks so too. And goes into it at greater length than I have. Read his blog post: An Insult to Damp Squibs […]

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