BBC Scotland : BBC scaremongering

BBC SCAREMONGERING

When BBC Scotland gives huge prominence to a thinly sourced story about something that’s never going to happen, but which provides the anti-independence parties a platform from which to attack the Scottish Government, and moreover does so just days before the ruling is published in a court case which has the potential to destroy the traditional foundations of Scottish Unionism and wipe out the generations long claim that the United Kingdom is a voluntary partnership of nations, it would be wonderful to live in a Scotland where we could look on in bewildered perplexity and ask ourselves, “what were they thinking? and for that to be a genuine and not a rhetorical question.

However in this Scotland where we actually live, we all know exactly what they were thinking. They were thinking that they had a convenient stick with which to beat the Scottish Government and to scaremonger about the ability of Scotland to sustain the health service as we have always known it. It’s a very convenient distraction just days before Scottish unionism as it has always been sold to the people of Scotland by generations of British politicians could be killed and buried by a UK Supreme Court ruling which might find that the law in the UK has no place for Scotland’s inalienable right to self-determination.

It did not escape notice that BBC Scotland pulled a very similar underhand trick just two days before the independence referendum in 2014, another thinly sourced story which the BBC spun into a major scare about the ability of Scotland to maintain a publicly owned and free at the point of use health service.

Instead of putting pressure on anti-independence politicians about how they will respond if the UK Supreme Court tells Scotland that they have been lying for decades when they told us that it’s up to the Scottish people to decide whether Scotland remains a part of the UK or not, the BBC is giving those politicians a megaphone and a stage that allows them to demand the resignation of the Scottish Health Secretary, a resignation which they are demanding because of something which has not happened, and which even more importantly, is not going to happen. Still, perhaps we should count our blessings because it did at least stop them from banging on about the bloody ferries for five minutes.

This story is based on the leaked minutes of a meeting of health service executives, a meeting at which Humza Yousaf the health secretary was not in attendance. The executives apparently indulged in what management speak is wont to call ‘blue sky thinking’ the activity of trying to find completely new ideas to solve an existing problem, irrespective of whether those ideas are desirable, practical, or feasible. The existing problem in this case is the problem of the long term sustainability of NHS funding. One of the ideas that the executives reportedly mooted was charging the better off for all or part of their medical treatment.

The first point to note here is that such an idea runs counter to the foundational principle of the NHS, that medical care should be free at the point of use for everyone, the second point is that even if this idea had survived an initial brainstorming session, NHS executives do not have the power or the political authority to make such a fundamental change to the policies and principles of the NHS, only the Scottish Government can do that and the Scottish Government has always made it clear that it is committed to free health care for all and has resisted the creeping privatisation which blights the Conservative run NHS in England. Moreover the Scottish Government and the Health Minister were neither present at the meeting nor had any input into what was discussed.

However the BBC then gleefully reported that the NHS in Scotland was considering the introduction of charges for health care, and considered this non story to be important enough that it was not only broadcast as the lead story on the BBC Scotland news and on Reporting Scotland at 6.30pm, but also gave it considerable prominence on its UK wide broadcasts, thus giving viewers in the rest of the UK the highly misleading impression that Scotland is poised to introduce charging for healthcare and end the principle that the NHS should be free at the point of use.

Not only did this give the anti-independence parties a highly convenient if fictitious excuse to work themselves up into a lather of self-righteous SNP baddery, it also provided the dual purpose of giving the Conservatives in England some cover which they could use to shelter themselves from justified criticism of their woeful management of the NHS in England.

The story, and the misleading way in which it had been framed and presented naturally provoked a furious backlash, Humza Yousaf described the BBC story as ‘complete baloney’ and Nicola Sturgeon issued a statement reiterating the commitment of the Scottish government to a national health service that is publicly owned and free to use. There was less chance of the proposals aired at that meeting being implemented as there is of the BBC complaints procedure finding in favour of the complainant and issuing a grovelling apology and a correction.

By Monday evening the BBC was still broadcasting the story but was obviously stung enough by the criticism to publish a mealy mouthed defence of its actions on Twitter, claiming disingenuously : “Reporting on the NHS in Scotland is a very important story for our audience. They have a right to know what those leading the NHS in Scotland are discussing – and that’s what we have been reporting today.”

But the point here is that it’s the Scottish Government and the Health Secretary who lead the NHS in Scotland. The people attending that meeting do not determine policy, and those who do determine policy are absolutely not discussing what the BBC so gleefully reported today, far less are they considering implementing it.

What the BBC did was shameless and grossly irresponsible tabloid style sensationalist scaremongering of a kind which would not have been out of place in the Daily Express, a publication which once gave us a breathless report of an interview conducted via a medium with the ghost of Princess Diana. At this rate we can look forward to a report on Reporting Scotland telling us that the ghost of the Queen had told a medium that she didn’t want Scotland to become independent and she thought that Humza Yousaf should resign. It would have as much substance as their reporting on Monday.

BBC Scotland has lost all credibility as an impartial news provider – it should just rename itself BBC Scotland is British and be done with it.

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176 comments on “BBC Scotland : BBC scaremongering

  1. ArtyHetty says:

    Thing is they know their propaganda works on those not able or willing to search a little deeper. It’s the sort of message the old folks in care homes and indeed hospital wards (they tend to have BBC ‘news’ on a loop) will see and hear and be horrified. Clever tactics, the usual BritNat states’ narrative, in fact BBC lies when all is said and done. Someone is behind this, and my have they been given a platform to scare the beejeezus out of vulnerable folk in Scotland, as well of course a brilliant distraction in England. As someone tweeted earlier, this two tier ‘health care’ system is actually being seriously pushed into becoming the reality.

    Anyhoo, take care folks, please wear multiple masks outdoors and in public spaces, I tend to do that though was daft and reduced it to one mask, now I am really unwell probably with Covid, and tests don’t show up anything but all the hallmarks of the damn thing. 😦
    I don’t socialise so it’s obviously very infectious in the community.I read that poss shorter incubation time now for new variants, and testing may only show positive after you have had symptoms for while.
    Ps sanitise hands and clean door handles etc as well.

    • ArtyHetty says:

      Meant the two tier system is very likely to become a reality in England and given their fabrications re this is all over English news, they are using fear mongering about Scotland to distract people, and it will. Yikes.

    • Golfnut says:

      Just getting over what for me was the worst bout of flu, ever. Constant cough and exhaustion. I tested every other day but it never tested positive as covid. After the first week I phoned our surgery, steriods, antibiotics and an inhaler. 3/4 days on those made a big difference though I have to say it took a few weeks to get over the fatigue. If you have a cough contact the docs, the steroids were really effective.
      Get better soon.

  2. Bob Lamont says:

    Bravo Paul, bravo indeed.

    Since James Cook’s published his article simultaneously on the BBC UK, Scotland and Scotland/Politics pages complete with “Analysis by” Lazy Winters in the wee small hours (my insomnia) https://archive.ph/iKcgU I’d observed this propaganda farce develop arms legs and a Jackie Baillie throughout the day as it lurched variously to retrieve credibility.

    The since rewritten and edited article with “Analysis” by Nick Triggle which appeared from ca midday is still being promoted by HMS James Cook in prime spot on the BBC’s Scotland/Politics web-page with the FM’s response two points below, the Scotland page with the response in prime spot and James’s creation Mk2 4 positions beneath.

    If it lies like a dead duck and looks like a dead duck it’s a fairly safe bet it’s James Cook.

  3. Margaret Noakes says:

    Hi Paul,I too was disgusted with bbc " news " re NHS  leak (who leaked ?)Dreadful, desperate tosh.Normally never watch bbc but stv was wall to wall footie.Come

  4. Legerwood says:

    Firstly, may I point out a wee, but important, omission in your article. These were DRAFT minutes on which the BBC based their story. Therefore they cannot be taken or reported as an accurate account of what occurred until they are proposed and seconded as such at the next full board meeting. Anyone with any knowledge of Committee procedures should know this. This also undermines any claims made by the BBC to justify their behaviour by claiming people have a right to know what is going on. People have a right to accurate knowledge of what is being discussed. Draft minutes do not provide this. Furthermore the adopted, final minutes are likely to be published on the relevant web site.

    Secondly, the idea of making the wealthy pay for NHS treatment does not stand up to even the most cursory examination. The wealthy use private medicine. The numbers using the NHS is likely to be vanishingly small therefore as a practical solution to increasing funding for the NHS it falls at the first hurdle. It is the sort of idea that someone has thought of off the top of their head and proposed it at the meeting without thinking it through. There is also the small mater of defining ‘wealthy’.

    A much better idea would be to increase taxes on the very wealthy which would go some way to improving funding for all public services.

    This was not the BBC’s finest hour by some ways. That is putting it mildly.

    • Cook slipped in the adverb ‘Apparently’. L, the last refuge of liars.
      Is there no confidentiality in our NHS now?

    • Golfnut says:

      Good comment, I don’t think this will end well for the BBC, desperation to create an SG/SNP bad story has perhaps led them to throw caution to the wind. Why now?
      Is the start of their 2023 campaign?is a GE imminent?
      We need to know what the purpose of this meeting was, was it held at the behest of the SG, were recommendations to the Health Secretary part of its remit? Who attended in an official capacity and if their were any guests or speakers or external experts/ influencers.

      • Legerwood says:

        Golfnut
        I suspect that this meeting of the various CEO’s of the Health boards was one that takes place regularly. Its remit is probably a wide one and need not necessarily be drawn up at the behest of the SG but include items that the CEOs think are important or are emerging as areas of concern related to their ‘day’ job. Copies of the minutes of the meetings or a paper prepared outlining their main proposals will probably be forwarded to the Health Secretary or one of his deputy ministers for information. That does not mean that the HS has to accept the advice/proposals.

        The draft minutes of this particular meeting seem to include a brain-storming section about ways of funding or increasing funding for the NHS. Probably quite a few of the ideas were half-formed and would not make it any further than the idea stage because of the obvious holes in it. The idea of making the wealthy pay as a means of raising money for the NHS is a case in point. Even a moments thought reveal the holes in it but of course the journalists, so-called, did not give it a moments though but spun it into something it never was.

        Yes they will put forward ideas on various matters including funding of the NHS but, and it is an important ‘but’, they will not be the only high level group advising the SG. The NHS is a multi-faceted organisation and several such committees exist peopled with the leading members of a particular group.

        It is then up to the SG/Health Secretary to collate this info/advice and make the political decisions about what to do.

        There may have been a story of some sort in this leak but it was not the story the journalists reported.

        • Golfnut says:

          Thanks Legerwood, the signed off minutes once posted should give us a better understanding of what’s going on, board minutes list attendees and guests, from your search does the SNHS follow this practice.

          • Legerwood says:

            Golfnut.
            The minutes for this meeting, indeed any committee minutes, should list those ‘Present’ ie the board/Committee members and those ‘In Attendance’ ie any non-board member. This might be someone presenting a report or attending as an observer from another committee.

            Here is an example from the Minutes of the Forth Valley Health Board Minutes from 2021
            “”FORTH VALLEY NHS BOARD
            TUESDAY 30 NOVEMBER 2021
            For Approval
            Item 3 – DRAFT Minute of the Forth Valley NHS Board Meeting held on Tuesday 28
            September 2021
            Present: Mr Allan Rennie (Chair) Mr Stephen Mcallister
            Ms Kirsten Cassells Dr Michelle McClung
            Mr Robert Clark Cllr Susan McGill
            Cllr Fiona Collie Mr Andrew Murray
            Mrs Cathie Cowan Cllr Les Sharp
            Mr John Ford Prof Angela Wallace
            Dr Graham Foster Mr Scott Urquhart
            Mr Gordon Johnstone

            In Attendance: Annemargaret Black, Director of Health & Social Care
            Elsbeth Campbell, Head of Communications
            Patricia Cassidy, Director of Health & Social Care
            Linda Donaldson, Human Resources Director
            Kerry Mackenzie, Head of Policy & Performance
            Kathy O’Neill, General Manager
            Jonathan Procter, Director of Facilities & Infrastructure
            Phyllis Wilkieson, Interim Acute Services Director
            Sinead Hamill, Board Secretary (Minute)
            Jackie McEwan, Corporate Business Manager

  5. Eilidh says:

    Time they took down the BBC sign at Pacific Quay and put up one saying Ministry of Misinformation because that is what they are these days. BBC Scotland political journalism is an embarassment to publicly funded broadcasting as far as I am concerned

  6. perthcol says:

    We don’t get to see the minutes yet my best bet is that only one attendee mooted this for discussion. We are not told what the consensus reaction was to this ‘out the box’ thinking. Do the BBC know but aren’t telling us?
    Whatever, it is becoming all too frequent that BBC Scotland create a feeding frenzy of frothing non news to implicate the SG in some piece of manufactured tripe.
    Surely the Prof will have a complaint of breach of editorial impartiality winging its way to auntie as we simmer and nurse our wrath.

  7. davetewart says:

    The ebc have a specialist department headed by Marianna Spring who is a British broadcast journalist. Spring was appointed in March 2020 as the BBC’s first specialist disinformation and social media reporter.

    See I’ve just done the same thing.

    Used mis-information, yjere’s an on-line course as well.

  8. BBC Scotland is a narrow Unionist sectarian wing of the Scotia Nostra Elite. They will do anything they can to ridicule Scotland, because from birth they have been groomed to be ‘leaders’, field bosses for their English Masters Up Here in the Golden goose colony.
    This smacks of Muriel Gray, and her Munro bagging pals..
    Is she still part time Head Honcho at Plantation Quay?
    How does BBC Plantation Quay get away with their deliberate sectarian recruitment?
    Because they can.
    Look ahead, Duggers, to the day when this English Outpost shuts its doors for good, and England is just a rogue foreign state to the south.
    What will Sally, and Glenn, and Douglas, and Gary, and Graham, and Lisa, Kirsty, Kirsten, and Andrew do then?
    Born again true Scots?
    They lie, bully, frighten, and sneer, their terms of reference from their London bosses.
    Feck ’em.
    Their days are nearly over now.

  9. Hamish100 says:

    Any independence supporter should if interviewed- go off on a tangent and attack the bbc direct on air. Now the wee guy with their hand on the off button will not know when this would happen so let’s Let’s keep them on edge. As for the bbc / msm researchers reading this. You are below contempt.
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Independence for Scotland

  10. This smacks of one of those ‘away days’ for managers; a skive, free lunnch, and managements exercies facilitated by an expensive consultant/facilitator.
    Was it held in a good hotel conference sweet? probably.
    It sounds as though the assembled dignitaries brainwashed the future of Scotland’s HS>
    Some thing like Edward De Bono’s Six Hats model;_

    White Hat: Similar to the calm and pure emotions associated with the colour white, this type of thinking focuses on analytical, objective thinking, with an emphasis on facts and feasibility.
    Red Hat: We often associate the colour red with anger and heat and hence this represents emotional thinking, subjective feelings, perception, and opinion.
    Black Hat: The colour black has been stereotypically linked with doom and gloom and so this forms a type of thinking that is critical, skeptical, focused on risks, and identifying problems.
    Yellow Hat: Often symbolising sunshine and happiness, the yellow hat is about thinking optimistic, speculative, best-case scenarios.
    Blue Hat: Blue being the colour of the sky and high above creates a sense of structured thinking, high-level overview of the situation, the big picture.
    Green Hat: Associated with the colour of trees and nature, the green hat is about creative, associative thinking, new ideas, brainstorming, out-of-the-box.

    The six emotional states of lateral thinking outlined by the coloured hats is designed to think freely before discussing solutions.
    So, there would be a range of options mooted during this HS workshop, and it may have included all of the suggestions gleefully lifted by the Brits in broadcasting and politics and delivered as facts to an unsuspecting audience.

    “Take bed blockers out into the car park and shoot ’em.” may well have been one suggestion for all we know.
    They twist, lie, frighten..they don’t give a damn who they alarm.
    They are little sh!ts.
    How they can look their children in the eye across the dinner table beats me. I won’t cancel my TV licence though.
    I own them.

  11. BY sheer happenstance, I cuaght Cook’s wee piece on the BBC News Where They Are so, England is being lied to as well.
    Cook actually smirks when he churns out this drivel.
    He takes delight in frightening our elderly and frail. and declaring to england that Scotland is shite.
    He is sinister pond life.
    Roll on the day when the last helicopter takes off from the roof of Plantation House.
    Grubby wee man on any level.

  12. jfngw says:

    The BBC run this promo ‘BBC trust is earned’ (it’s on youtube if you want a laugh, I’m not linking to their nonsense), these requirements do not apply in Scotland, that’s if they apply to any of its news output.

    I remember the old programme ‘Drop the Dead Donkey’, P.Q’s motto is ‘Run with the Dead Donkey’, if it undermines the thought of democracy in Scotland.

    The BBC is the blueprint for how the Tories want to run the NHS, almost every department has been privatised, the only ones left are the management core, news and the depts nobody wanted (of course they hold onto what they consider jewels in the crown Eastenders and Strictly), this ‘outsourcing’ started in the early nineties. You then pay a near compulsory tax to keep these private companies financed.

    Of course they punt this ‘best broadcaster in the world’ narrative, anyone that subscribes to any of the streaming services will see their production values are often better than any BBC output.

    • I followed on to the Distorting Scotland bulletin..Lisa Summers and Glenn Campbell with voice overs from medical staff..then Campbell asking Huza if he had lost the confidenc of Scotland’s HS?
      Then it twigged. There must be a state of play report on England’s NHS due out tomorrow. England, which is well on the way to privatisation, where hundreds of new born infants have died ,and some mothers, from professional neglect, where some ‘trusts already charge for hip and knee operations…Not one Health Minister has been interviewed by the BBC on hundreds of newborn deaths through neglect.

      I repeat, BBC Jockland is on its last legs Up Here.
      Oh, by the way, THE TEACHERS COMING OUT ON STRIKE TOO!!!! and it’s all that Nicola Sturgeon’s fault.
      Covid never happened apparently.

      • jfngw says:

        I think we can see now what the point of the story was, the unionist have been calling for the Health Secretary to resign (they are always calling for someone to resign). This story was a precursor to their reporter asking the HS if he had lost the confidence of the NHS staff, it reinforces the unionist demand for resignation, demonstrating they are the propaganda arm of the unionist parties.

        All comes across as a bit racist to me, they have chased Humza Yousaf across every department he has led.

  13. yesindyref2 says:

    Sorry, haven’t actually followed this NHS story.

    But in general, the BBC first broadcast in the 20s, first radio then TV. Its mission probably was news, current affairs, music, light entertainment. It may well have tried to report news unbiased.

    But wartime Britain gave it its mission of helping Britain to survive and win the second world war; it did this by broadcasting code to resistance groups throughout Europe and outwith Europe, and also by being more optimistic about current news than was deserved – in short – morale-building propaganda.

    Well, after the war there were other threats, perhaps even including the Labour party in Britain with suppsoed Communist connections, and with the threat from the east – the USSR – it continued its mission of positive proaganda on behalf of Britain and its Western allies, In the 60s, BBC2 was launched and ironically with its documentaries it quite often contradicted the propaganda of the BBC1 news and current affairs. So, in the 70s, a discerning viewer could glimpse the “other side” to the cold war which basically showed that they were as afraid of us as we were of them, and that both sides carried out “skirmishes” in other countries – like the Middle East in general.

    That’s in a similar way to its website now, which does the same at times, achieving impartial factual reporting as opposed to the continual propaganda of the BBC1.

    The BBC’s mission, set in 1939, and its modus operandi, have not changed since, and it’s unlikely it ever will. It was the engine of the British Empire and it still longs for those lost days.

    Here endeth the shaggy dog story, but unfortunately, not the BBC.

    • Golfnut says:

      I have to disagree a little on the timescale, by the early 30 ‘s if not even earlier, the bbc was already setting the standard for aspiring propagandists, Goebles, Hitler’s disinformation minister was effusive in his praise of the bbc as undoubtedly the most accomplished propaganda tool in the world.
      They’ve always lied to us.

  14. Ken says:

    £150Billion was spent onthe NHS in the UK. They need another £10Billion. The ConDems cut the NHS £20Billion from 2015 to 2020.

    £15Billion is spent on theSNHS. More on social care. Personal care and prescriptions personal care so people can stay in their own homes. Not more expensive residential care or hospital stays.
    Incresin* old agepesionswould ut out admin costs and be more a

    • Our medical staff, police, emergency staff, and teachers are paid more than their English counterparts NOW.
      Imagine Jackie Baillie in charge of scotland’s Health Service.
      I suppose if she can’t be a good example, she serves as a dire warning.
      I wonder what sensation will keep the SC result and demonstrations off the air waves on wednesday.
      Another ferry breakdown? Ranjurs new Manager?
      We really are being played like mugs.

  15. Hamish100 says:

    BBC scotchland creates and makes propaganda. It certainly does not report on actual news and with impartiality. This is just another example of many.

  16. yesindyref2 says:

    A quick look through the news and some SNP MSP twitters, and so far the tally of those pro-Indy politicians attending one of the 14 rallies on Wednesday seems to be, by party:

    SNP – 1 – Tommy Sheppard
    Alba – 1 – Neil Hanvey
    Greens – 0

    But I daresay the National will email all of them to see who is attending, and provide us a list on Wednesday.

    Hopefully a list with more than just 2 names on it 😦

  17. Bob Lamont says:

    On a point Jack Collatin raised earlier “Cook slipped in the adverb ‘Apparently’ “-
    In the BBC Scotland news video piece with overdub by James Cook, he said “Senior NHS Leaders, apparently given the green light to consider reform..”.
    Only a complete fool or a propagandist would select specific ideas from a brainstorming session as recorded on DRAFT minutes of a separate committee to government to suggest this was at the behest of government.

    What this episode amply demonstrated was premeditation by and collusion with BBC London to maximise coverage.
    Cook’s above pre-recorded monologue featured on the BBC Radio Wales Breakfast early edition on the very morning the story broke.

    It is not just “BBC Scotland has lost all credibility as an impartial news provider” but the entirety of the BBC.

  18. Angus Gother says:

    BBC News is to journalism as chalk is to cheese.

  19. Scottish Baker says:

    Has anybody heard the latest? Apparently, in a cost saving drive, BBC Scotland is to be closed! All UK Broadcasting will be controlled from BBC HQ. It seems nothing is worth reporting in Scotland. Staff have not yet been made aware, but it is expected that only a small handful of technical staff will be required to retransmit output from London & Salford.

  20. Golfnut says:

    We are, as we seem to have always been, living under what was described by Sara Salyers
    as the ” violence of the lie “.
    I can’t think of a better way to describe both our past and current predicament. Bombarded daily, hourly with misinformation, disinformation, lies designed specifically to coerce and control,
    ( serious criminal offences by the way for us plebs) in the way abused and bullied partners are forced to compliance.
    This is not acceptable behaviour.

    • Golfnut says:

      By God that is one twisted concoction.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Yes, but what about the article?

        (which I didn’t read 🙂 )

        • yesindyref2 says:

          Jings, it is twisted as well. The SNHS has always “outsourced” supplies and some operations at times, particularly when overloaded or short (usually temporarily) some particular skills.

          And making it easier for companies to tender is something all the public sector is supposed to do, particularly for micro businesses like mine. Not just for fairness, but to get better value for money. I get some small sales, though not from the SNHS, and need to spend more time getting myself set up properly 🙂

          When I get a round tuit …

  21. Old Pete says:

    Does the Supreme Court of England not give its verdict on something to do with Scotland soon.

    BBC Scotland hates the Scottish SNP/Green Government and it longs to be rid of the hated ‘Separatists ‘
    Yesterday was pure propaganda using a DRAFT copy to make an attack on the Scottish Government just shows how low they will sink in their anti Scotland agenda.

  22. deelsdugs says:

    That’ll be the propaganda that hit ma lugs as I drove home having had no contact with radio shortbread, nor biased tv for some days.

  23. Welsh_Siôn says:

    From today’s news:

    The days of “cheap labour” must end says Sir Keir Starmer …

    ______

    … only millionaires will be able to afford to join our party.

  24. jfngw says:

    One thing I always notice is no matter how much mince a media story is most ‘journalists’ will circle the waggon to defend the story. That’s why journalism is so dire in Scotland, their collective is deemed more important than the truth.

    Anyone who has been to a management meeting will know when cost savings are discussed there will be lots of suggestions, most will be discarded before leaving the room. Mentioning what possible options there are is not making a decision, after all I believe the BBC once discussed moving Scotland presentation to London and only having someone with a mic in Glasgow (classed as editorially Scottish based), it didn’t happen as judged too political.

    • jfngw says:

      I’m interested why a correspondent who was North American correspondent is now back in Scotland. After all within the BBC being classed as Scotland correspondent is only marginally better than being NI correspondent, it’s the dregs of rolls as far as career is concerned. No chance of hosting Mastermind for him, real fame has eluded him.

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Cook was only sent to the US to allow his “We’ve seen the (non-existent) emails” etc gaffes be forgotten by the passage of time.

        It’s now Smith’s turn in the US whilst exposure of her multiple lies passes into distant memory.

  25. Skintybroko says:

    BBC Scotland was outrageous yesterday, deliberately insinuating that Hamza had to go as this report was damaging. It is beyond belief that they get away with this propaganda day in and day out. The public are paying to be abused by their public “impartial” broadcaster. The UK government should be in the dock on this one, massive under investment in the NHS over decades yet not a peep from the beeb.

  26. Capella says:

    Karen Adm on the need for freedom to invest in our health service – out of the clutches of Westminster.

    Independence cannot come quickly enough for our NHS

    We all have stories to tell from birth to grave, with experiences often being intimate, private, and highly sensitive. These can shape us and often are our most stressful and life-changing moments. They often require specialist support and nurturing with the medical attention to match.

    Surely these should not come with a price tag – these are human needs and rights should be attached to that. I have American friends living in sheer terror at what cost could await them for simple medical requirements. One had a birth experience which was life-threatening because of the lack of affordability. I even heard that there’s a charge to hold your own baby added on the hospital bill.

    Ultimately, the one thing that most agree on in the UK is that healthcare should be a fundamental human right and free to access at the point of service.

    https://archive.ph/kqiNZ

  27. Capella says:

    Owen Thompson MP on what a NO result in the SC would mean.

    A no judgment will be the final nail in the Union’s coffin

    AS a Member of Parliament based most of the week in Westminster, I often get the chance to sound out Tories’ informal views on certain issues.

    This week, it’s been fascinating to get a sense of the atmosphere in Westminster surrounding the Supreme Court judgment.

    So what do the Tories really think about this watershed moment?

    The answer is: very little. The vast majority of folk down here have barely registered the importance of tomorrow’s judgment.

    This total ignorance from the Tories is a huge advantage to independence supporters. It means that the ball is in our court, and the momentum is with us. Its up to us to drive the agenda, set the message and get our voice heard.

    If it’s a “no”, I’m afraid we may be in this for the long haul.

    But in that scenario, it’s more important than ever to mobilise, to take to the streets, to make a scene.

    READ MORE: Wariness of BBC politicking is justified – The REAL Scottish Politics

    Because we’re going to need all the friends we can get – and mobilisation is a tried and tested way to effect change when institutions fail us. There’s a lot in our party’s radical roots to draw from.

    A bold, civic mobilisation worked in achieving a Scottish Parliament in 1997. It can work again – and tomorrow’s rallies will just be the start…

    When we show up in the streets to peacefully broadcast our message and values, people take notice, from the press to European allies to undecided Scots.

    https://archive.ph/4URrd

  28. I can’t help but suspect the BBC has been instrumental in helping get support for independence over the 50% mark. Its decline in Scotland in terms of trust is inversely proportional to rising support for independence over the past decade. Of course correlation is not always causation, but it’s hard not conclude to this effect in this particular case.

    • Capella says:

      I have to disagree. Independence is the natural state for a population and support should be over 90% as it was in other states which voted for it e.g. Norway in 1905 had an almost 100% approval.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_Norwegian_union_dissolution_referendum

      The low rate of support in Scotland is almost entirely the result of relentless propaganda from the BBC and other media. We point out their brainwashing activities every day on this blog.

      I would say the decline in trust in the BBC is the result, not the cause, of rising support for independence.

      • I was being somewhat tongue in cheek! British identity in Scotland is still a real thing and it’s what has held the UK together, particularly since it’s peak in the baby boomers. The BBC have failed to stop the long term decline of this, even though they remain pretty much the last remaining symbol of it left; successive UK governments beginning with Thatcher’s having shut down or privatised everything else British which formerly existed in Scotland. And here we are.

  29. Capella says:

    What happened to the £350 million a week for the NHS that the BREXIT campaign promised? I make that over £18 billion EXTRA a year for the NHS. That promise was made on the side of a bus to secure a LEAVE vote.
    Perhaps the BBC cold find out what happened to the money?

  30. Jeez, my wife is now ‘cheap [foreign] labour’ according to hard right brexiter multi-millionaire Sir Starmer.

    We must wean economy off immigration, Labour leader warns businesses

    • Somehow posted before completing:

      https://web.archive.org/web/20221122115500/https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63707941

      We must wean economy off immigration, Labour leader warns businesses

      The days of “cheap labour” must end to wean the UK off its “immigration dependency”, Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has told business leaders.

      Sir Keir called for a plan to train British workers and move the economy away from its “low-pay model”.

      What’s even more scary is that I’m not British and neither are most Scots.

      ‘British jobs for British workers’ takes on a whole new meaning when you consider that, and language matters, e.g. ‘I prefer north British’.

      • They’re joined at the hip now. Tweedle Rich! and Tweedle Keir.
        Biddish jobs for Biddish workers.
        Brexit, fortress Bidden.
        They are of course trying to outdo each other to hold on to the UKIP Red Wall.
        My Everlovin’ is Irish, so it’s all her fault that Tesco and Asda and Morrisons are being subsidised by us tax payers since they know that they can pay the bare minimum and UCS will top it up.
        Blame Johnny Furriner.
        How any Scot can vote New Labour Old Tony now beats me.
        Starmer is a Tory.
        Sarwar is a Tory.
        Murray is a Tory.
        Carmichael is a Tory.
        Coal Scuttle is a Tory.
        Vote ‘Unionist’ and you vote Tory.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          Labour will never get in with “Sir” Starmer.

          Faced with a choice between the real tories and the fake tories, voters will go for the real thing.

    • jfngw says:

      He’s sending the message to the women of England to get breeding to maintain the purity of the stock and produce more of the cabbage pickers the country needs.

      • But if you do ‘breed’, jfngw, you only get paid UCS for two of the tattie howkers you produce, unless you convince Baroness Rape Clause that a third sprog was the result of rape.
        England is a fascist state now.

        • Aye, it’s totally mad. No immigration but child limiting policies at the same time.

          ‘We should educated our own kids rather then bring in skilled workers!’ while slapping massive uni fees on a degree.

          Nuts. UK doesn’t have a hope in hell.

  31. I submit that any ‘Health Chief’ who advocates the privatisation of our HS should be sacked on the spot.
    I wonder how many of them are there to destroy our universal Health and Care System?
    The Elite Scotia Nostra?
    Well, I’ve got news for them. They work for me. Do your job, not England’s.
    The ‘dreaft’ minutes would have been circulated to those attending, to revue, suggest amndments, and/or sign off the document as a true reflection of the content of the meeting.
    So, some zealot broke ranks and handed a copy over to BBC Plantation Quay. A treacherous breach of confidence in any walk in life.

    Who ‘leaked’ minutes which had not been signed off to James Cook, Lisa Summers; Glenn Campbell, and Lorna Miller?
    James Cook could give the name to Humza of course.

    This would lead to summary dismissal, and forfeiture of all pension rights.

    I demand that my HS remains confidential, and that includes any meetings or workshops conducted by HS staff, and that my officials are not selling off any data or information relating to my Health Care to grubby wee hacks.

    I am positive that in opening the now infamous workshop, the facilitator agreed a set of guidelines with the participants about how the day would be structured, high on which list would be confidentiality.
    Delegates require assurance that any of their contribution would be kept strictly within the confines of the room.

    This is an absolute and universal condition of any development workshop.

    Somebody broke the rule, and knew what they were doing when they handed this material over to the BBC in Glasgow.

    They intended to usurp the authority of the Government of Scotland, and damage the Scottish Health Service, certain in the knowledge that Cook, Campbell, Miller, and this morning on Jock Radio, Laura Maxwell, were the right people to illegally warp the content of the draft document to their Unionist ends.
    An enquiry should easily identify the culprit.

    It has backfired on BBC Plantation Quay of course.
    Tomorrow’s going to be fun.

    • Capella says:

      It could have been a cunning plan by some unionist on the board – I gather that cooncilors and aw sorts sit on thae Boards. Why not request this goes on the agenda and then leak the DRAFT minutes to James Cook?

      Next week’s news – Education chiefs propose privatising education in Scotland for wealthy people. Oops – that already happens.

      • Charge JK Rowling for the electricity used to light the street lamps outside her cloistered Edinburgh mansion.
        Better still install a coin meter on the lamp post, so that she too can experience the joy of going out into the cold night and to top up the lights, like wot the Great Unwashed are forced to do.

        • Capella says:

          Well at least charge wealthy people a higher rate of Council Tax.

          • and their accountants would just write off any increase against tax returns, Capella. The filthy rich don’t pay tax. It’s all deductable.

          • davetewart says:

            The highest band is still too low.
            The maximum band gives someone with a million valued house a band set twenty+ years ago at £80,000 valuation.

            I have a friend who thinks the coonsil charge is great value, he pays the same as a 4 bedroom house in his srea and his is 8 bedroom.

            The politicians are afraid to sort out the re-evaluation or a different system.

            The proposed 5% rise in coonsil charge will cause some people heartache.
            Clever move by the chancer to give the coonsils permission to raise IF they need to.

    • jfngw says:

      In my opinion the person who made the suggestion is more than likely the person that leaked the draft minutes. If you have an agenda then you need to get it out there.

  32. davetewart says:

    Whatever happened to the ebc’s policy NOT to publish un substantiated documents?
    Does that meen they have two copies?
    No, they just make it up as they go along.

    Where’s the coverage on the poor schools performance in englandland?
    Rivers pullution?
    NHS englandland performance?
    Delay to the frigate and it’s gearbox failure causing them to cut a hull section to get it out for replacement.
    Ajax light tank’s delivery, Oh that’s none that can shoot whilst moving, a benefit as the crew get motion sick.

    The Red arrows are getting renamed to The Red Arrow.
    Why has the Sir not been charged with racism, we need to wean off forriners.

  33. Dr Jim says:

    Most folk think of the NHS as an organization with all staff totally dedicated to the health and welfare of everybody else to the exclusion of all other considerations,
    this is just not true
    The NHS like all big companies is made up of all types of people with all kinds of ambitions including political activists for their own particular ends just as in any other workplace, like the bins or the railways or the BBC
    Those who do not support independence for Scotland will include nurses on wards, doctors, ambulance crew, cleaners and of course board members, and those board members although having no power over policy can just the same as the unions pressurise others over their point of view, including conjuring up NHS bad news and getting it written down in the minutes of a meeting contacting James Cook at the BBC informing him job done and the game’s afoot

    The Tories have a supposed practicing doctor as a MSP who inflates conflates and invents garbage constantly while making sure he’s wearing his wee NHS lanyard over his ever present open necked scrubs, y’know so everyone can see he’s a caring individual who spends all his time that’s not on camera *caring*except how does he find the time doing this full time MSP well paid representative of his constituents job and all the other hours in the day *caring* without ever looking like he’s *burnt out* * at the end of his tether* * exhausted to breaking point*

    This wee doctor man is as fresh as a daisy every time we see him insisting everyone’s sprits are broken despite him having two full time jobs

    No one wants to dis the NHS, because it’s not pc to do it, but not all the people working in the NHS are the people folk think they are, every company or organization has its outright sods of troublemakers, the NHS is no different

    I spoke to one particular nurse who was a UKIP racist who voted for Brexit because she couldn’t stand working alongside the nasty furriners because their existence meant she couldn’t get as many shifts as a higher paid bank nurse because there were sufficient numbers at the time employed within hospitals, and she’d do it again, because that’s just who some people are, they want it this way

    There will always be the *how much money can I make regardless of others people*
    and they’re not all the multi millionaire club of scumbags, they’re just ordinary looking normal scumbags who keep their motives to themselves while they’re looking so concerned and expressing publicly how awful things are as they screw over the innocent person working next to them

    Great British aspiration, all for one and that one’s me, just don’t tell anybody

    • So true, DR Jim. Not every nurse is a saint, but mercifully the vast vast majority are.

      You may have noticed that the Red and Blue Tories keep referring Dr Andrew Buist when the shriek at NS during FMQ. Who he, you ask?

      This is a lift from the BNA Press Release 22/09/2022.

      “The BMA’s UK GP committee (GPCUK) has elected Dr Alan Stout and Dr Andrew Buist as its new co-chairs.

      Dr Stout is a GP partner in Belfast and currently chair of GPC Northern Ireland, and Dr Buist is a GP partner in Perthshire and chair of GPC Scotland. They take over from previous chair Dr Phil White, former chair of GPC Wales.

      As co-chairs, Dr Stout and Dr Buist will represent GPs on BMA Council and coordinate action on issues facing GPs across the UK. Their key priority is further reforming GPCUK so it is best equipped to deliver for BMA members and GPs across the UK.

      Dr Stout said:

      “This is a critical time for General Practice and for our NHS. We are fully committed to ensuring very strong pan-UK representation to protect our GP workforce and ultimately our patients.”

      Dr Buist said:

      “We have reached a crisis point for general practice and the NHS. Much has been devolved but we still need strong links across the four nations to share understanding and the solutions to recovery.”

      They were elected unopposed and take office with immediate effect.”

      So, these two guys bang on about a UK wide NHS, where none exists,
      hence Dross and Sarwar quoting Buist .

      We have a Scottish Health service. Soon we shall have a Scottish Medical Association to match.

      Of course Buist is going to scream that Scotland is shite. He’s ‘UK’ mouthpiece.

      Our GPs are Scottish not UKish.
      Roll on independence.
      Was Buist at this workshop?
      Curious and curiouser.

  34. Stephen McKenzie says:

    A first question that should be asked, is do these draft minutes actually exist, as
    James Cook has a history of reading things, like emails, that never existed. Lying if you wish.

    What is more likely is that a “Dafty” after a sherbert too many before the brainstorming meeting, did probably write on a Post-It note to privatise the NHS to much laughter from his colleague’s when it was stuck up on a board.

    This was then tipped off to BBC, Labour etc as a proposal.

  35. davetewart says:

    Dr Jim

    Can only agree.
    Last week I was at the local hospital for a test.
    All was organised through my GP.
    At the hospital there were 2 receptionists,???, one was new staff on training. At the test I was asked If I was happy to have a trainee do the test under supervision.
    The doctor was seen before and after the test and was civid compliant consultation, dealing with 3 patients an hour, told me that it would have been 6 an hour before.

    On leaving had a chat with an ambulance driver I knew.
    He told me he was waiting to discharge a patient into A&E, his paramedic had to report what treatment had been done to the admitting doctor.
    Said he could take me into Admin where we would find half a dozen Admin workers doing the numbers alongside the paople doing the patients records.

    Yes , medicine is a company in SNHS with the same issues as any organisation.

    My ambulance person said that he couldn’t report ready for the next callout until his patient was dealt with, he thought that a change was needed but they were short of paramedics that would allow him to go to the next job with another.
    That would be a problem for staffing programmes as they work as a team.
    Not an easy fix like the tory msp/doctor would have us believe.
    Why doesn’t he just do the doctor job and help out the SNHS, his hollyrood stuff is just a diversion.

    Will we be off the ferries this week at fmqt? and back to the pot holes as he hasn’t done that for a while.

    A great positive from our SNHS, my trip was done as a response to the Bowel cancer test programme, now problems found for me.
    I’m told the ENHS doesn’t have this programme, anybody know for sure?

    • Dave, in the past 4 weeks, I’ve had my double jag, on schedule, by prearranged appointment, seen on time, by a cheerful, assuring NHS nurse, and had a good laugh with my fellow septuagenarians, my yearly Man Well check up (MOT) with the nurse at my GP Practice, and my six monthly check up and wee filling(‘hole’ in tooth) from from my dentist, who has expanded the practice and now has 4 dentists where once my man flew solo.
      Admittedly I live in Glasgow, but, I for one, can’t square BBC Scotland’s constant snide criticism of our HS with my and my Everlovin’s excellent experience of the service.
      Cook and Company know what they are doing; terrifying the elderly frail and ill so that Scotland remains a colony of their beloved England.
      They are pond life.

      • davetewart says:

        Aye Jack a similar experience, cheerful and professional care with a laugh and crack.
        The report should read NO problems found, just a call back from the bowel test kit.

        The media are pond life, we in our own country will sort out the media when we are a normal country.

        The report that Paul mentions was repeated in all the englander media, some with more heavy treatment.

        I don’t buy their paper based propaganda, my library allows me to look on line.
        Yes I pay in my coonsil charge.

    • Legerwood says:

      davetewart
      The SG has funded an increase in the number of paramedics and ambulance drivers and of course ambulances.

      https://www.gov.scot/news/record-recruitment-to-the-ambulance-service/

  36. JP58 says:

    I strongly suspect the hand of ‘Scottish’ Labour in this story.
    Even Tories are not stupid enough to think this would be beneficial to themselves as they are regarded as being in support of further privatisation.
    Labour still have not acknowledged SNP becoming a social Democratic Party post 1979 and still trot out the Tartan Tories label. However many SNP supporters who have switched from Labour have done so partly because Labour has drifted to neoliberalism and this story will be nonsensical to them.
    It may play with older Labour supporters who take all their news from mainstream media and BBC in particular. If they are taken in by this then they will be influenced by the day to day anti-independence stories of MSM anyway.
    Strange thing is there are areas of NHS management in Scotland they can criticise (even after acknowledging post covid and funding pressures) but they are so desperate that they have to come up with something sensational like this.
    As mentioned above I would not be surprised if this was leaked by a politically motivated attendee and as others have said it could even have been raised as an item for discussion intentionally for this very reason.

  37. One thing to keep in mind is that if Scots vote for independence freely and fairly on a decent turnout, either by referendum or election plebiscite, then we will have rescinded the right of Westminster to rule Scotland for Scots, the peoples of the wider UK, Europe and the wider world to see.

    Now of course England can say it doesn’t recognise that result, but that doesn’t change what would have just happened. The result would stand, and this is key, if the people of Scotland accept it. If they accept it, it means the UK is over in their minds and nobody will be able to tell them differently, particularly not English politicians. At that point, only force could be used to try and keep Scotland in the union, because Scots will accept nothing but independence. The vast majority will demand that the vote be respected, even if they didn’t personally vote Yes. They will expect their leaders to deliver on this, or they will vote for those that will. See brexit as an example of this. The parties that tried to backtrack suffered; the ‘get brexit done’ party triumphed.

    This is why dictators – and now the UK government – go to every possible length to try and stop people voting freely and fairly in the first place. They can only keep the pretence up that the ‘people don’t want something’ if they stop people freely saying they do. Spain knew it could not let Catalan referendum go ahead in case more than 50% did actually vote Yes. The only way to stop that was to send in troops to disrupt the vote. If not, the Catalan people might have accepted a Yes result had truly just occurred, and that would have changed everything fundamentally. The only way to undo that would be to have the Catalans vote to reverse the decision. The same would apply for Scots.

    The whole unionist strategy is build around saying Scots ‘don’t actually want independence’. It is what they use to try and justify blocking the vote, delaying it etc. Scots, unsure if this is true or not, are less like to argue back to this. That all changes if they see their fellow countryfolk actually clearly do want indy and just actually voted for that. Then everything changes.

    Which is why this can’t be stopped, not if Scots want it and vote for it, somehow.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Labour have still not reversed their position on Lisa Nandy’s preferred option of sending the UK military into Scotland to prevent democracy in the same way Spain did
      What should be more shocking to people is the media will not question Labour on it

      • They’re already here, Dr Jim. At least 91.6 % of armed personnel in Scotland are English, Up Here as part of an Expeditionary Force on a tour of Duty.
        We are de facto a militarily conquered colony of England.
        If we marched on Edinburgh, there is no need to send a gun boat. They’re in Faslane now.
        Check out the vast blocks of staff quarters at Gareloch.

        If SC say no tomorrow, it will be confirmed beyond doubt.
        We are held under house arrest, citizens of Europe, by Braverman’s English Homeland Security.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          Jack, behave yourself!

          • I’m back on the naughty step, YIR2.
            Will these insurgents have a vote in our Referendum? Asking for a friend.

            • yesindyref2 says:

              Will these insurgents have a vote in our Referendum?

              Yes, yes we will, Jack – you and I and all the Indy supporters who live in Scotland 🙂

            • Dr Jim says:

              I’m all in favour of everybody who lives and works in Scotland having the vote on Scottish independence except for one category, serving military personnel, and that’s because they swear allegiance and their service to the crown, translated meaning whoever governs the UK, and as the UK is opposed to democracy in Scotland, then by definition so are the military bound to do the same by their oath

              Some might argue that in the privacy of the ballot box the military are allowed personal conscience but I would contend those someone’s prefer the sound bite of that democratic style attitude rather than the practice of it
              The military are told when to wake up, when to eat, when to drink and when to go to bed, and that’s not even counting duties to be undertaken on command, meaning these people do not exist in the real world, they can’t go hungry, many don’t pay a bill for home maintenance, they live in a massive mobile care organization unit catering to their every need until they leave, so even if they do have a conscience they’re used to doing what they’re told, and many have told us what they were told *advised* to do in 2014

              My own brother served for 9 years and many times has expressed vocally that he had no clue what civilian life was like until he left the army in his mid 20s when the imperial British ordered his regiment to go to Northern Ireland to teach the Paddies and Micks a lesson, (and that’s the polite version of the language they used) he’s 77 now and he left the army when he told them his wife was a Paddy and a Mick, all that time my brother thought he was British until at that moment he learned that British only means an all encompassing title of ownership by the English

              There is no British military, there’s only the English military with colonials in it because they need us

              Let the military be allowed a vote after they’ve been abandoned by the crown and government they serve

  38. yesindyref2 says:

    SCOTLAND’S Health Secretary has rejected calls by the Tories for auditors to investigate a NHS discussion on introducing a “two-tier” health service as “laughable”, saying it would be a waste of the public spending watchdog’s time.

    Scotland must have the world’s most stupid and desperate opposition. They want Audit Scotland to waste time AND money to – audit a fecking meeting?

    • Pogmothon says:

      No. they want to open a crack which they (jackie Bailly(sic)) can expand exponentially into something, anything else. While publicly throwing unsubstantiated accusations at the SG and FM. The same as the wee Eck nonsense.
      They surely learned well from McCarthy. But not what happened to him at the end.

  39. Welsh_Siôn says:

    Scotland – you are not alone. Us pro-indy Europeans will be with you tomorrow, whatever the result from the SC.

    ___________

    (From an email sent to me from Europe for Scotland, today, 22 November 2022:)

    Regardless of the outcome, this verdict is important for all Europeans who care about democracy and all of us who want the Scottish people to have a chance to rejoin our European family.

    For this reason our campaign is very proud that we’re having small gatherings of solidarity with Scotland across Europe.

    Tomorrow our activists will be in

    Paris, Auld Alliance, 80 Rue François Miron, 5pm

    Berlin, Brandenburg Tor, Sinti-und-Roma-Denkmal, 5.30
    Munich, Café am Glockenspiel, Marienplatz 28, 6.30

    Brussels, Grand Central, Rue Belliard 190, 6.45

    Rome, Metro Colosseo, 7.30

    Dublin, Dáil gate, Kildare Street, 7.30

    and on Thursday the 14th in

    Skive (Denmark), Adelgade 2, 4.30 pm

  40. yesindyref2 says:

    I see Stephen Noon is advocating taking a white flag to a gunfight yet again. Why on earth does the National give that plonker column space?

    • He seems to be suggesting ‘Now is not the time’.

    • grizebard says:

      Good question.

      When the usual suspects at the BBC are again busily trying to fulfil their Unionist charter with puffed-up NHS “cry wolf” scare stories that anyone like myself (as others here) with personal experience know very well are a load of steaming cow dung, you begin to suspect it may have something to do with a judgement coming along tomorrow.

      And it does make you wonder why some supposed “friends of indy” – usually those long bereft of any influence – are so keen to continue to assert, Glenn Campbell style, that WM will be deemed paramount. And that there are others who seem ready & willing to give a platform for goalpost-shifter enablers.

      For myself, I would gently suggest that whatever the judgement, it will be a win for indy.

  41. Just settling down to watch France vs Australia.

    It’s nuts that to watch sporting events like this in Scotland, you need to tune into another country’s programming, which you are forced to pay for.

    First and foremost English pundits / ex-footballers discussing things from an English perspective, reminiscing about past English victories / encounters and of course getting all excited when England is playing / wins. Discussions of English league football here and there. Talking about ‘our’ chances and ‘we can do it’ when that’s of course the English team. If Scotland was playing, we might get lucky and they call in a token jock for the night, typically one that’s moved south to play / manage at English clubs.

    Then we are told this is supposed to be our ‘national’ broadcaster.

    Can you imagine an Englishman turning on the BBC to find all the pundits were German and discussed everything from that perspective, re-living German victories etc? That is exactly what you get if you are Welsh / Scottish / Irish N. Irish.

    Can they not get an English/British, Welsh, Scottish and Irish pundit for such shows so that it represents all the peoples of the UK? But that would be the kind of thing that would make the other peoples of the UK feel British / included, so I doubt it.

  42. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, it seems the SNP are treating the grassroots with contempt.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23143268.snp-mps-split-attending-supreme-court-indyref2-rally-activists/

    “SNP MPs split on attending Supreme Court indyref2 rally with activists”

    but it’s actually even worse than a “split”:

    “Several MPs have prior commitments at debates and house business but most, The National understands, are waiting for guidance to come from HQ.”

    and as for the MSPs, absolutely nothing, nada, nihil, nichts, rien, lickety-spit.

    It’s a disgrace.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      I said I’d follow this through, and I am.

      They have less than 11 hours to get most of the MPs to the Supreme Court for 9.45 am, just 5 minutes walk from Westminster, and make a real showing, or face the wrath of the Indy movement. Some of us will not forgive them.

      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?

  43. Eilidh says:

    Well I won’t be at any rally either as I am working tomorrow. Let’s just wait and see which Msps Mps turn up at a rally.The fact they may have other things to do doesn’t make it a crime not to go. It is getting a bit wearing debating re who will be or not at these rallies and The National is beginning to sound like a unionist newspaper by mentioning unnamed Snp sources.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Perhaps the SNP hierarchy have a huge massive wonderful surprise in store for us. The Referendum Bill launched at Holyrood by teatime today whatever the UKSC result, with the SNP MPs launching an opposition Bill at Westminster titled “Yer tea’s oot, live with it”, and it’ll all be go.

      But with nothing from the SNP apart from Gugliano’s email, and efforts from just 5 MPs and no MSPs, it looks more like faint heart and even cowardice from the ivory tower leadership.

      I will of course be happy to admit I got it all terribly wrong, how embarrassing, and jump around from one foot to the other with a red face while humbly and profusely apologising. Though to be fair the red face would be from delight and the tears of laughter and delight streaming doon my face, with Indy Ref 2 and Independence almost there.

      But I’m beginning to think that all the SNP HQ care about is COP27 and COPOUT big time.

      Which is not why I vote for them. That would be Indy.

  44. le suma says:

    I think people in Scotland should be paying a discounted TV licence fee in view of this political bias and general lack of much of anything else about this country from the main TV channels which broadcast across the U.K. state.

  45. Dr Jim says:

    It’s not the politicians referendum, it’s the people’s, there’ll be plenty of time for political speechifying and wrangling when the decisions are required, I’d be quite happy if no politicians from any party showed up, let the people get on with it

    • grizebard says:

      Indeed. I will be much more interested in seeing what (preferably unbiased) constitutionalists have to say about it.

      Oh, and the biased pretendy ones too! {laugh}

      • Dr Jim says:

        Yep, the media will have all their *experts* lined up both against and against, oh and maybe a pretendy for, mumbling gloomy forecasts

  46. Now’s the day and now’s the hour, Duggers, no matter whther the bread lands jam up or jam down.
    There is no going back, and the Yoons know it.
    Later.

  47. yesindyref2 says:

    So anyway, today’s the day, and possibly the most important so far for Scotland. It’s also possible by the way that the UKSC might rule that it has absolutely no jurisdiction over matters regarding our self-determination – sovereignty, and I suspect future historians could reach some sort of concensus that that was the correct judgement of a UK court on a Scottish constitutional matter. Courts can rule themselves out.

    Righty. From the point of view of protocol, the FM of Scotland should address the Nation after the result is known and efore she talks to YES activists, so it’s possible that might not happen before some rallies end at 7 or so, if it’s on the evening news as it should be – UNINTERRUPTED by the morons.

    Also possible that the MPs will receive no instructions from SNP HQ, and be left to their own devices and initiative if they have any – that could be the correct constitutional thing to do. So I should reserve judgement for a day or three.

    Now for the good news – I found my YES badges and saltire, and am ready and raring to go. I’ll be going incognito, just one of the crowd so no interviews please, no don’t mention it, but I will be easily recognisable – I’ll be the one with the YES badges and saltire.

    Happy Days 🙂

  48. Hamish100 says:

    If the FM makes statements from Bute House or Holyrood to the news media and world press is fine by me.
    Too many comments of she must do this or that or something else. She is the First Minister of Scotland and has to behave as such.
    The rest of us can pick up the megaphones and banners. The war is not won today.

  49. Luigi says:

    If SC says “Yes”, we can deal with that. If SC says “No”, we can deal with that. But what if SC says “We are no telling ye!”, what then?

  50. Why on earth did unionists let this happen? What were they thinking?

    Scots will be watching very closely today. They will judge the union on this and the actions of English politicians / the British press in response to it.

    We’ll also have Sturgeon on the telly – and on at least some international bulletins globally – talking about democracy, freedom and self-determination for all nations… in the middle of the Ukraine war and the ‘patriotic fever’ world cup where, erm Wales / England are playing, and where many teams have played Scotland plenty of times.

    Poll after poll shows Scots believe there must be a referendum, even if they personally don’t want one, because people voted for it. They will take the same position if Scots vote Yes, be that through an indyref or election plebiscite.

    this is why we have a totally obvious, desperate propaganda ‘look, there’s an ‘NHS squirrel’ story just days ahead of it.

    I personally don’t see this day deciding anything. If we want indy, we shall have it. It’s wonderful PR for Yes though, both at home and abroad.

    Unionists should prey the court says Yes and the UK government concedes. That’s their only hope to keep Scots on side, forlorn as it seems.

    • jfngw says:

      Judges trying to suppress democracy is not be a good look, I hope the international community takes note if they tell us we need another countries permission to decide our future.

      Although maybe a No will drive home to many more in Scotland the make-up of this union, that it is essence not a union at all but an occupation.

    • Golfnut says:

      ” It’s wonderful PR for Yes though, both at home and abroad ”
      Absolutely spot on.
      The hypocrisy of the UK Government so blatantly on display won’t be lost on foreign governments. On the one hand a further £50 million of aid to Ukraine in support of its fight against Russia, on the other a perceived denial of democracy at home.
      The FM has played a blinder.

  51. I don’t believe the S.C will decide one way or the other, and toss the question back to the politicians. Find out shortly if I’m correct.

    • While the Scotland Act is a matter of law, our independence is ultimately a political issue. It concerns democracy and the popular will of a nation / people / their country.

      The fact the Scotland Act could be updated either way in a very short space of time, means it current form is not important. It’s not like it’s some ancient constitution carved in granite that would take a supermajority in every parliament in the land to modify. And even if that was the case, if Scots wanted indy, it could not be stopped by a stone tablet.

      Whether we are free to leave or whether an aggressive, anti-democratic power will lay claim to our land against the will of our people, threatening us with force to make us stay, is a political decision of Westminster, not a legal ruling from the UKSC.

      Cameras of the world now turn on the UK which is supposed to be the ‘mother of parliaments/democracies’, or is it Europe’s second last dictatorship? Will England be the only country in Europe occupying another against the will of its people?

  52. Capella says:

    Supreme Court decision will be televised! Link here:

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html

  53. Capella says:

    In case you were thinking of celebrating tonight – those broad shoulders are losing power and Scotland will have to join in. The Demand Flexibility Scheme,

    Blackouts: When could power cuts hit Scotland tonight?

    Scots have been warned that power cuts could impact parts of Scotland amid a major strain on the UK’s power infrastructure.

    A nationwide power shortage could happen tonight (November 22) as the National Grid warns households across the UK about their power usage.

    This could see thousands of homes thrown into darkness as the nation faces a power shortage.

    READ MORE: UK homes could face 4pm to 7pm blackouts this winter

    READ MORE: BBC prepares ‘secret plan’ for potential winter blackouts

    When are power cuts likely to occur?

    In a report from The Sun, it is said that the UK’s power supply might struggle to keep up with demand at peak times from 7 pm onwards.

    This means that some homes could face power cuts and be left without basic appliances and necessities.

    Previously, the National Grid had planned to pay some households to reduce their power consumption from 5:30 pm today in an attempt to trial its Demand Flexibility Scheme.

    https://archive.ph/9YlZh

  54. Welsh_Siôn says:

    Good luck, everybody.

    Stock up on the popcorn.

    I’ll catch you later – I’m mid-translation of some self-marketing spiel by some business guru. (Subtitling a video.)

  55. Claymores at the ready!

  56. davetewart says:

    Part of their problem is 3 of the nuclear stations are out of service or on light load due to fuelling issues.
    We are back burning coal to make up some of the deficit.
    Winds today.

    The result is we don’t have the right to self determination.

  57. Capella says:

    So the answer’s NO. You do not have the power to ask yourselves a question because you are NOT A COLONY, says the SC.

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    Get back in your box, Scotland, you are not a People and you have no right to self-determination. Bow down and kiss my arse.

  59. James Mills says:

    Court declares Scotland ”is not a colony ” – aye , right !

  60. iusedtobeenglish says:

    So we’re not a colony and we’re not oppressed, so we can’t have a referendum unless WM amends the Scotland Act. Have I got that right?

  61. OldPete says:

    Democratic mandate counts for nothing if you live in Scotland, we must do as the English government and their collaborators living here.
    What next for Scotland ?

  62. Sad Old Pete says:

    So what next Nicola ? pull the MP’s from Wesminster ? Call new Scottish elections and make it plain a vote for the pro Independence parties will result in UDI by the the Scottish government.

  63. yesindyref2 says:

    Was lashing down with rain here but stopped and supposed to clear up, so I hope we don’t get soaked through on the steps of Buchanan Street in Glasgow later today. But I am not a sugar lump. I will be there.

    Now we need everyone to get out to these rallies and tell the world we are held hostage against our Will in Scotland, with no right to self-determination. We are imprisoned. But we Claim Our Right.

    At least the UKSC surprised most pundits and actually made a decision without running away from it.

    The worst outcome of all for the Previous Union.

  64. Excellent. So we are to England as eastern Ukraine is to Russia. I hear a hammer hitting a nail into a union jack adorned coffin. The sound suggests it could be nearly the final one.

    We shall have no more talk of the UK being a democracy, for it is not, as the UKSC has just ruled. It is an imperial power where one country can subjugate another against the will of its people.

    ‘British government out of Scotland!’ Is now a perfectly legitimate protest slogan. Our movement is now officially a civil rights one. A movement for democracy against an aggressive foreign power.

    The UK government is not our friend, English troops on our soil are not here with our permission etc.

    If I was a unionist who backs this ruling, I would not go knocking anyone’s doors. Where before you might get a polite ‘Och, sorry, I’m Yes, and you won’t be able to persuade me’, now you will be told to ‘GTF you authoritarian scum – How dare you take away my right / the right of Scots to vote!’. And rightly so.

    Over to you London. You can fix this this all. You can close the Pandora’s box that has just been opened. You can diffuse the bomb your court has just put under Scotland’s pro-union campaing, leaving them unable to argue their case any more (if it’s not a choice, a pro-UK campaign has no meaning and can’t campaign).

    You can stop the dangerous division you are responsible for swiftly by a quick amendment to the Scotland Act. Do that, and you might yet be able to hold the UK together. If not, Scotland will be forever lost to you and the end of the UK becomes inevitable.

    A disastrous day for the union.

  65. OldPete says:

    So what next Nicola ? pull the MP’s from Wesminster ? Call new Scottish elections and make it plain a vote for the pro Independence parties will result in UDI by the the Scottish government.
    Sad Old Pete

  66. Legerwood says:

    Thought Lorna Gordon gave a reasonable report after the judgement. Better her than the frothing Campbell or Cook.

  67. Legerwood says:

    Tweet from Ms Sturgeon

    • Aye, we have just been handed the best reason for indy that you could possible have.

      Also, the pro-UK campaign in Scotland has been eliminated by the sweep of a pen. It’s not a Yes/No choice with two campaigns any more, it’s a civil rights fight between the Scottish people and subjugating English/British parliament.

      Sturgeon has just become Scotland’s Gandhi. The SNP/Greens the associated emancipation movement.

      Unless, that is, Westminster moves quickly to address this deficit. Although the damage is probably already irreparable.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Headline in the National:

        “Supreme Court BLOCKS Scottish independence referendum”

        I believe that should be “BOLLOCKS”.

  68. Time for the ‘Free Scotland – End English Imperialism!’ ‘Civil rights and democracy for Scotland!’ banners at internationals folks.

  69. davetewart says:

    Sorry Scotland you can’t have a hamster.

  70. Across Scotland, people are now saying ‘The SNP/Greens were right all along – the UK isn’t a democracy, and England sees our country as a colony’.

    Man up Sunak, for you have little time if any now to save the UK.

  71. samthedug says:

    The Supreme Court says Scotland is not a colony, then rules that it is in fact a colony.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiPWFelWAAAo9Gy?format=jpg&name=large

  72. yesindyref2 says:

    LET MY PEOPLE GO

  73. Capella says:

    Abbi Garton-Crosbie reports on the SC decision.

    Supreme Court BLOCKS Scottish independence referendum

    Lord Reed, president of the court, said the decision was returned so quickly because justices were unanimous.

    The court ruled that the content of the draft referendum bill does relate to “reserved matters” under the Scotland Act 1998, as a Yes result in a referendum would have an impact by ending the Union and therefore the sovereignty of the UK Parliament in relation to Scotland.

    The justices rejected the Lord Advocate’s argument that the outcome of the referendum and the political implications should not be considered by the judges, and that they should only rule on a point of law.

    Reed said: “A lawfully-held referendum would have important political consequences in relation to the Union and the United Kingdom Parliament.

    “Its outcome would possess the authority, in a constitution and political culture founded upon democracy, of a democratic expression of the view of the Scottish electorate.

    “It would either strengthen or weaken the democratic legitimacy of the Union and of the United Kingdom Parliament’s sovereignty over Scotland, depending on which view prevailed, and would either support or undermine the democratic credentials of the independence movement.

    “It is therefore clear that the proposed bill has more than a loose or consequential connection with the reserved matters of the Union of Scotland and England, and the sovereignty of the United Kingdom Parliament.”

    https://archive.ph/pII9P

    • yesindyref2 says:

      A lawfully-held referendum would have important political consequences

      Which means the UKSC has made a political decision. It is supposed to consider the Law, not the politics,

      • Capella says:

        Quite so. It’s Schroedingers Court. It is both political and not political.
        Same for the examples he chose to illustrate his contradictory points – Quebec and Kosovo. Huge contradictions in his decision.

  74. stewartb says:

    Supreme Court result no great surprise: prefer this to a cop out by the Court. Some bits of the judgement are ‘noteworthy’, especially this IMHO (with my emphasis):

    ’81. A lawful referendum on the question envisaged by the Bill WOULD UNDOUBTEDLY BE AN IMPORTANT POLITICAL EVENT, even if its outcome had NO IMMEDIATE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES, and even if the United Kingdom Government had NOT GIVEN ANY POLITICAL COMMITMENT TO ACT UPON IT. A clear outcome, whichever way the question was answered, WOULD POSSESS THE AUTHORITY, in a constitution and political culture founded upon democracy, of a DEMOCRATIC EXPRESSION OF THE VIEW OF THE SCOTTISH ELECTORATE. The clear expression of its wish either to remain within the United Kingdom or to pursue secession would strengthen or weaken the democratic legitimacy of the Union, depending on which view prevailed, and support or undermine the democratic credentials of the independence movement. IT WOULD CONSEQUENTLY HAVE IMPORTANT POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES relating to the Union and the United Kingdom Parliament.’

    So UK democracy, as legally constituted, doesn’t permit a democratic expression of the view of the Scottish electorate – because it couldn’t withstand its non-binding, non-legal effects – and especially not allowed if this view is to be expressed in an manner which has ‘authority’, authority derived from democratic expression. And so the ‘democratic legitimacy’ of the Union is not permitted to be tested it seems, notwithstanding the democratic mandate within a partner in this Union to do just that.

    So this is what the ‘precious’ Union relies upon to be held together, denial of the opportunity for an authoritative expression of the views of Scotland’s people because of one possible democratic outcome! And of course there may be ‘law’ here in the view of the Court but there is NO principle involved, given a previous UK government, in 2013, took a different view in similar circumstances, except then a UK PM had no/less fear of the democratic outcome.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      It is better than being held in limbo: “Can’t make a decision until it’s gone through Parliament”.

      It’s more reason for much of the world to hate the UK.

      Wrong decision but perhaps a brave one, and perhaps THE decision that gives us Independence – unless the UK Government have the sense to “sympathetically” give us a Section 30 Order which would reduce support for Indy.

      • Welsh_Siôn says:

        a brave one

        You mean ‘courageous’ a la Yes, Minister? 😉

        “a “brave” decision was one that would lose you votes, whereas a “courageous” one was one that would lose you the election.”

        • yesindyref2 says:

          A brave one by the UKSC.

          They could have kicked the can up the road by refusing to make any judgement on the issue itself – as many expected, and Unionists including the UK Government hoped.

  75. Alex Montrose says:

    Nicola Sturgeon is making a statement at 1130, where can we see this? thanks.

  76. Capella says:

    It is scheduled to be live streamed at 11:30 on the SNP live site.
    https://www.snp.org/live/

  77. Welsh_Siôn says:

    Just to let you know that the exiles are doing their bit, too:

    This from the Convenor of my local (London) SNP Branch:

    “London SNP will be meeting outside the Supreme Court this evening at 6pm to now protest against the decision which has gone against us. The question now is ‘how does Scotland legally leave the supposed voluntary union and become independent?’ Scotland’s fate is now at the mercy of the Westminster Parliament.

    We have a lot of people already coming, we hope to see as many of you as possible there. Similar protests are being organised across Scotland at the same time and will be important as we make our voices heard.
    Supreme Court, off Parliament Square: Little George Street SW1P 3BD at 6pm

    we will also decant to a nearby pub after our protest for drinks and socialising.

    Yours for Scotland “

  78. Votes for Scottish people! Scottish lives matter! Equality for Scots!

    Free Scotland! End English imperial rule! Anti-democratic British MPs out of Scotland!

    Time to march for your civil rights people of Scotland!

    All legitimate slogans now. Well done unionists. Give yourselves a pat on the back for this epic exercise in foot-shooting.

    RIP No campaign. You can only exist if it’s a choice. I wouldn’t try knocking people’s doors now. They’ll tell you ‘What the f**k are you doing here on my doorstep asking me to vote No when you won’t f**king let me vote at all?’.

    Seriously, bravo!

  79. Golfnut says:

    Well done Nicola, excellent result, the iniative is now very much in the FM’s hands.
    Lord Reed’s clearly political commentary is at odds with what is and always was a decision based on the Scotland Act.
    On now to the GE which I think will be unavoidable in 2023.

  80. Anthony Grayling, Fellow of St Anne’s College, Oxford:

  81. Dr Jim says:

    Any newspaper, any *think tank* can run a poll to determine views on Scotland’s constitutional position without anybody’s permission but the elected government of Scotland is forbidden by English law to do the same

    So Scotland is only entitled to freedom of expression, freedom of actual speech or freedom of choice if or when the government in England decides they will allow it or not

    Had the FM said she did not respect the legal decision by the Supreme court the UK English government could have under their law proscribed the FM and the SNP as a terrorist organization meaning those of us in Scotland who support the freedom of our country would be branded exactly the same as the IRA when that organization demanded justice for Ireland

    There is no UK there is only England and who and what it says it legally owns by constitution of its own law

    English people everywhere must now understand exactly what their government using their law has just done

    They have declared that legally every Scot is not equal to those who say they are not Scots

    There are and will be consequences for that

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