The bullying braggadocio of a weak PM

So Liz Truss thinks that there ‘should not be’ another Scottish independence referendum even if the UK Supreme Court rules later this month that it is indeed within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament to hold one without her consent in the form of a section 30 order.

Once again we got the ‘Once in a Generation’ Mantra as though the entire referendum hinged upon it and it was a binding legal commitment and not a campaign slogan. Now it’s “we said” once in a generation? That’s new. I don’t remember that clause from the Edinburgh agreement. There was no agreement either written or spoken that the 2014 referendum was a once in a generation event. Truss can be as clear as she likes but others will be even clearer in their determination to have the referendum they have voted for.

It’s strange however that the likes of Truss don’t place the same weight on the utterances of the Better Together camp. How about the assertion that Scotland was an equal partner in a family of nations? We don’t hear the Scottish media challenge Truss and the Tories on that when they intone that “we were told the referendum was once in a generation?” Or more pertinently what about the Vow that if Scotland voted No no Westminster government would ever interfere with the devolution settlement without the express permission of the Scottish Parliament. Unlike the once in a generation slogan that was actually written into law, only for Theresa May to go to the UK Supreme Court to obtain a ruling that it had no force in law.

Truss’s so-called Brexit Opportunities Bill gives her government the legal right to intervene directly in devolved areas, over-ruling the Scottish Parliament. It goes without saying that the Conservatives have not sought a democratic mandate from the people of Scotland for any of this. So why is it that the losing side in the 2014 referendum is to be held in all perpetuity to some of its campaign slogans but the winning side gets a free pass on the commitments it made in order to secure its victory, commitments which were enshrined in legislation only to be ripped up later when they were no longer convenient? Answers on a postcard to BBC Scotland because it sure as hell doesn’t appear to be in any hurry to put the question to the Better Together parties.

But really, who cares what Liz Truss thinks? We know she doesn’t want another referendum because she doesn’t want to add ‘breaking up the union’ to the list of disasters – at least from her perspective – that characterise her likely to be short term in office. If the Supreme Court rules in the Scottish Government’s favour there will be a referendum whether she wants one or not, her permission will not be required and there will be a referendum without her permission. If the Supreme Court rules against the Scottish Government then the next UK General Election will become a de facto referendum whether she wants it to or not, and again, her permission will not be required and there will still be a vote on independence no matter what robotic soundbites she comes out with.

All Truss could do would be to pass some legislation to block, or more likely gerrymander, a referendum. However any such move would be fraught with political difficulty and would run the very serious risk of backfiring, as it would show the Scottish public that an unpopular Conservative government was attempting to stymie the operation of democracy in Scotland. First the Tories insisted that an ‘illegal’ referendum needed to be opposed, now Truss is insisting that a legal referendum also needs to be opposed. You can smell the fear.

Note however that she could not do the same with a UK General Election which is a de facto referendum in Scotland and should Truss attempt to prevent Scottish democracy from taking its course after the UK Supreme Court had ruled it was lawful she would run the risk of the Scottish Government refusing to hold a gerrymandered referendum which was unfairly stacked against a Yes victory and then having to contest a de facto referendum in which opponents of independence would be placed in the impossible position of having to defend a UK which resorted to nakedly undemocratic means in order to prevent the people of Scotland from voting to decide their future for themselves.

However the way things are going for Truss she could well be out on her ear before Christmas, so her opinions on another Scottish referendum would become even less relevant. She has been in power for less than a month, during half of which there was no government business because of the royal mournathon, and she has already managed to provoke a a significant part of the Conservative parliamentary party into plotting to bring her down. In her all too brief tenure in office she has managed to tank the pound, drive the pension funds to the verge of collapse, cause mortgage and rent costs to soar, and to give Labour a commanding lead in opinion polls which the Tories are unlikely to overturn.

Truss has already got most Tory MPs against her, a majority of them supported Sunak. There is also a significant contingent of former ministers who loathe her and who would cheerfully bring her down if they could. She had precious little goodwill on the Conservative benches to begin with and she has rapidly burned through that with the unforced errors of Kwarteng’s mini-budget. Her many critics on the Conservative benches are unlikely to give her the benefit of any doubt in future. Any more errors or negative public reactions that cost the Conservatives points in the polls and they will ruthlessly move against her.

It’s not Scotland which is in a weak position here, it’s Truss. Her bullying comments are the braggadocio of a weak politician who is compensating for her weakness with an attempt at assertiveness. No one is convinced, certainly not by a politician who has insisted that she will not U-turn and who then performed eight U-turns during the Conservative leadership contest followed by another U-turn on her flagship policy within days of taking office.


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130 comments on “The bullying braggadocio of a weak PM

  1. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s a pity Truss can’t be called as a witness in the UKSC.

  2. Statgeek says:

    Generations change. It was 33 years to a generation, if 1979 to 2014 is being used.

    Or are they just moving the goalposts, perhaps? 😀

    • Statgeek says:

      Typo. 35 years. Two generations of drivers. 😀

    • A voting generation is at most 1 year as a new generation comes of voting age each year.

      Familial generations of 33 years are of no relevance because, as a society, we have not timed things so we all have kids at the same time on the same day, then command these to all wait until they are 33 before repeating this exercise. 🙂

      My teenage daughter might yet be able to vote in iref2 if it’s after her early October birthday finally. She was in primary three last time.

      Even if the rest of us signed a solemn oath saying we’d not vote again for 33 years, she and hundreds of thousands of other Scots would not have as they were either not in the country at the time, or were like her in being too young.

      The current Scottish electorate has never voted on independence. That’s a statement of fact.

      Some of it has. However, some were too young. Some have only moved here since, including moving back. Some didn’t know what to vote last time, so have note previously voted on the matter. Some have left, some have gone to meet their maker.

      This is the why voters must, by law, be allowed to vote at the shortest practically possible interval, normally 4-5 years at most, before we even get to the issue of a cornerstone of democracy being the freedom of voters to undo previous ballot box decisions.

      My daughter’s message to anyone telling her that she is bound by the e.g. vote of a unionist who moved away 7 years ago is ‘sit and spin’ for good reason. 😉

      • deelsdugs says:

        Reckon the voting generation of the torystirrers are spinning theirs in a three weekly web of candy-floss

    • JP58 says:

      Once in a generation was only a term used by Alex Salmond as he probably thought that Scottish electorate would not vote for parties wanting another referendum for several years post 2014. He has been proven wrong. It has no legitimate standing unless it is a defined timeframe agreed by Holyrood & Westminster. This is obviously not the case and the only way to democratically assess whether Scottish electorate want a referendum is via the Holyrood Parliament that Scottish electorate return under PR voting system.

      • It wouldn’t be fixed in stone even if agreed between previous Scottish and UK governments, as current electorates / governments are not bound by the actions of previous ones. That is a basic principle of democracy, and one UK governments like to point out. It could at best be an ‘in principle’ agreement, but that’s it.

        The SNP or another party could have simply stood on a manifesto commitment to bin any such agreement and if the electorate gave them an electoral mandate, then that would be that. New government dumps agreement made by previous one at the request of voters. Technically, no mandate would even be needed, although it would be politically expedient outside of an emergency situation.

        For example, if respective governments signed a ‘no referendum for 30 years’ in principle agreement, after which the UK government promptly passed a law closing the Scottish parliament, there’d be every justification for the Scottish government to immediately dump the agreement, then hold an iref.

        • JP58 says:

          I was being hypothetically- the only democratic way to address this IMHO is to accept if Holyrood votes for an independence referendum then a referendum should be held within lifetime of that parliament.
          If the Scottish electorate did not want a referendum they would not vote for parties who stood on that platform. It seems so simple to me that it only leads me to think that opponents of referendum are frightened of losing.

          • For sure. They were confident in 2012 when the EA was signed. But back then, only about 30% (ex DK) wanted indy when offered 3 options (indy, devo, nae parly). But that became 45% as a lot of devo maxers didn’t believe that would be delivered.

            Now 54% (ex DK) back indy even if offered 3 options, so aye, the British are pooing bricks!

      • Gordon Currie says:

        He said once in a generation, because achieving a single party majority in 2011 under the deHondt system was a complete aberration which is unlikely to be repeated.

        • JP58 says:

          There has been a majority for independence (SNP & Green) in the two subsequent elections in 2016 @ 2021. It is questionable whether this would have happened without Brexit?

  3. Dr Jim says:

    As we speak Michael Gove is *on maneuvers* as they say in politics, to rid the party of Liz Truss and her supporters, and this very morning the original favourite of the Tory members in the race for the PM job Penny Mordaunt has begun her undermining campaign of *maneuverings*

    The Tories aren’t a political party anymore they’re a mafia organisation dependent on who can muster the most soldiers behind them
    Gifts will be exchanged and promises made and the contest for the next *Don* or *Donna* will continue
    Meanwhile in Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland, remember us? the three *other* countries that supposedly make up this union are left to sit around waiting with no authority to move forward because once again we’re waiting for the big important England to sort itself out

    Well they are the important people after all, we did have a visit from a King though so y’know, everything’s great innit

  4. Bruce MacDougall says:

    Whether a referendum or an general election, both can be got at through postal votes, especially when the British State is opposing the result. I honestly don’t believe that either can be guaranteed as fair and honest. The worst result would be another questionable loss, when there’s other methods of regaining self-determination that cannot be interfered with by Westminster.

    • davetewart says:

         Democratic Socialist Federation
      Dunoon Unit Report

      Untruthful ruthie knew the postal votes before the voting stations closed.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        That’s as factual as her two burly men in Dumfries evicting NO voters. She knew nothing, no change there then.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      The “British State” would have to control the 32 Unitary Authorities in Scotland, some of them run by SNP, where the postal votes are actually posted to, including mine, and yes, I did look at the address on the envelope, it was correct, it was North Ayrshire Council. In Ayrshire. In Scotland, not London.

    • grizebard says:

      Oh puhleeze, let’s not resurrect the lame old conspiratorial excuses again. We lost in 2014 for reasons, and to win next time – and there will be a next time – we need to learn from that and do it better. With the visible support of a majority of the people of Scotland, not with some mysterious “cunning plan”. It’s not as though the opponents of independence aren’t helping with all their broken promises.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        I was going to reply to it that there’s already a wacko conspiracy theory website elsewhere, but then I realised there’s 6 or more these days.

        Elvis is alive and well and living with Lord Lucan.

  5. What does this mean? The British unionists are going to start getting violent now they’ve lost the support of the population of NI?

    In response to people there voting voting neutral + republican pro-EU/pro-protocol parties these days, the Brits are going to start shooting / bombing?

    That would rapidly accelerate reunification and the demise of NI unionism. It would be the union’s funeral, not the GFA’s.

    Northern Ireland Protocol: Funeral of peace deal unless it is sorted – Poots

    The political impasse over the Northern Ireland Protocol could lead to the “funeral of the Good Friday Agreement”, a Democratic Unionist Party minister has said.

    Edwin Poots repeated that his party would not return to Stormont until issues were resolved.

    • Dr Jim says:

      As in every country there are always a certain amount of *don’t cares* over what the constitutional ramifications are to any change of anything, the British Nationalists enjoy counting these people as for their proposition and against any change to that which is proposed

      In Scotland we have those people also, people who just don’t care unless they’re threatened by what now? because those who seek democratic change are not notorious the world over for issuing threats, of course they aren’t, it’s the status quo support that does this, and why? democracy isn’t easy to argue against

      Northern Ireland is under threat and blackmail by British nationalists because like Scotland both our nations are close to divorcing ourselves democratically from the British status quo so all they have left to argue with is disruption and nastiness

      In the end the democratic world doesn’t like to stand behind any country that behaves in this way so Scotland and Northern Ireland will triumph, and it’s not the UK , but England that will lose, because Wales isn’t blind or deaf either

    • Aye Jim. Meanwhile on the other side of the British iron curtain….

      Tick tock for the union. SF in power in the north and Republic soon.

      New poll finds popularity of Sinn Féin in Republic has reached record high

      THE popularity of Sinn Féin in the Republic has reached a record high, according to a new opinion poll.

      37% Sinn Féin
      21% Fine Gael
      17% Fianna Fáil

      • Hamish100 says:

        An Irish border poll is under statute (English/ Irish Law) and can take place every 7 years and is also agreed by an international treaty. No doubt it will be referred too in the coming so called Supreme Court. Hard to argue I would think that Scotland is another exception to the rule and not allowed a independence referendum.

        Anyway The Scots are a sovereign people despite CR3 view of his “ subjects.

      • Willie D. says:

        Sinn Fein will never be in power in the north, in the sense that under the settlement reached in 1998 no single party will ever be in power, as we have a system of mandatory coalition, i.e. if you cross a certain threshold you share power with every other party that crosses that threshold. So, in the unlikely event that the Executive is restored Sinn Fein would share power with the DUP, UUP and Alliance party, which usually means that nothing much happens, as our system dictates that parties with diametrically opposed aims are forced into a bizarre coalition.
        In the Republic Sinn Fein would have to find a willing coalition partner(s). Neither Fianna Fail or Fine Gael have been willing up to now, and if either were willing Sinn Fein’s would have to compromise on its policy aims to enter such a voluntary coalition. Not that it really matters who you vote for in the Republic as the role of the “government” there, of whatever stripe, is essentially to obey orders handed down from Brussels and Frankfurt. It is, in no meaningful sense, an independent state, is is a member state of an imperial construct.

        • Sinn Fein will not be in power alone, which is all but impossible under PR (a good thing), but leading respective governments in the same way the SNP lead the government of Scotland. If you lead governments, you are ‘in power’. Not absolute power, as that’s dangerous as it corrupts completely – see UK Tories.

          You make yourself sound silly by describing the voluntary EU union as ‘imperial’. Countries are part of the EU because their voters wish that. If they stop wishing that, they can leave. UK did just that and the EU didn’t lift a finger to stop it. No Supreme EU court cases to block the brexit referendum and saying Brussels permission was needed for that. Unlike the imperial UK.

          It seems UK voters wish they’d not been so stupid, as per my below post. The wish to rejoin, and it’s understandable.

          Hence the total mess the UK is in.

        • benmadigan says:

          “Sinn Fein will never be in power in the north,”
          Unionists are now a minority in NI and their Unionist fiefdom no longer exists.
          Michelle O’Neill (SF) has been First Minister designate since the May ’22 election as SF gained more seats than the DUP, the leading Unionist party.
          She has been prevented in taking up her post by a cross-party Unionist refusal to share power with SF under the pretext of objecting the Northern Ireland Brexit Protocol – which Unionists, particularly the DUP, worked hard for, endorsed and ratified in Westminster
          If Unionists refuse to share power with a democratically elected larger SF, there will be no more Stormont.

    • Azel says:

      I’m wondering if what the DUP is hoping for with that move is the resumption of direct rule over NI or a hard boundary across Ireland. Either would likely accelerate reunification, but let it never be said that the DUP and their ilk are canny operators.

      • benmadigan says:

        There will be no Westminster-only direct rule over NI.
        Events (Brexit, the SF majority in the NI Assembly and Unionist refusal to share power with SF) have moved on too far. Dublin, and through Dublin the EU, will probably be involved with the USA watching over what transpires.

        There will be no hard border in Ireland.
        ERG hard-hitters, arch brexiteers like Steve Baker and Chris Heaton-Harris apologised for some of their behaviour towards Ireland and the EU during the Brexit process
        Because they realise the Conservative govt is besieged on all sides and making nice to somebody might help attenuate the debacle the ERG and PM Truss find themselved enmired in

  6. Tatu3 says:

    Just watched Beth Rigby interview Truss on Sky News (on YouTube) and Truss reminds me of those dolls you get where you pull a string at their back and they keep repeating two or three phrases over and over

  7. James Mills says:

    Dom Cummings , not the most reliable person to give a political testimonial especially with his dodgy eyesight ( sic ) , but he appears to have been rather generous in his assessment of Truss as ”a human hand grenade ” and ”mad as a box of snakes ”.

    Considering the financial mayhem she has left in her wake recently , I wonder if he is now thinking that he let her off lightly ?

  8. deelsdugs says:

    Defo got some sort of ear device with prompts

  9. grizebard says:

    Actually, I can’t think of a better person to be “the PM that lost Scotland” (even though she won’t by any means be the solitary reason).

  10. Capella says:

    But apart from that, Ms Truss, how are you enjoying the Conference?

  11. Dr Jim says:

    BBCs Martin Geissler says look what would have happened if Scotland had been independent with all the stuff that’s going on at present tied to the £ and the Tories wrecking the British economy

    The BBC and their union mouthpieces like Martin Geissler are not only an embarrassment to Scotland, they’re an embarrassment to the England cause that they support if that’s the best they can come up with, even people who don’t understand the meaning of the word irony understand the irony of that stupidity

  12. Statgeek says:

    Wonder if anyone can nudge anyone in their circle that might be able to add Brexit polling question to a poll. Curious what the Brexit polling might be now, in Scotland, and the rUK, since the massive shift in the polls.

  13. stewartb says:

    A ‘bit’ off-topic, justified as an example of falling out of love with the Tories?

    I didn’t spot this being covered by the mainstream media at the time. It’s from the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation (SFF), issued as a press release on 15 August 2022. It included the text of an open letter to Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak from the Chief Executive of the SFF (below with my emphasis).


    ‘Improving the Brexit deal: THE UK GOVERNMENT MADE BIG PROMISES TO THE SCOTTISH FISHING INDUSTRY on Brexit. Promises that the UK would secure full control of its fishing waters and thus a much fairer share of the resources in them.

    ‘That was NOT DELIVERED. We are an independent coastal state in name only. No other coastal state would give away what we have. But there is scope in 2026 to make some amends, and help the industry thrive in the future. We seek your wholehearted support to secure a better deal for this industry beyond 2026.

    ‘We continue to be constrained by a sharing agreement with the EU fleet that still favours their fishermen over ours in access to the resources in our own waters. So we call on the incoming Prime Minister TO COMMIT to securing gains for our industry when the Adjustment Period in the Trade and Cooperation Agreement ends in mid-2026.

    ‘The UK will then have another opportunity to shift the dial on WHAT IS A HUGELY DISAPPOINTING DEAL ON FISHERIES. The EU fleet continues to fish unfettered in UK waters and wants to make sure they can do so in perpetuity. The incoming Prime Minister must ensure that the UK reclaims and exerts its sovereign right to control our Exclusive Economic Zone – THERE MUST BE A BREXIT BENEFIT where the UK can act as a truly independent coastal state, and not as one with its hands tied behind its back.’

    And on workforce issues: ‘Parts of Scotland’s fishing fleet, like other sectors, are SUFFERING FROM LABOUR SHORTAGES. Our industry was pleased that its efforts led to fishing crew being recognised as skilled workers. IT WAS HOPED THAT UNDER THE NEW IMMIGRATION SYSTEM THAT THERE COULD BE A MOVE AWAY from overseas fishermen working in the UK on transit visas, coming instead to work here through the skilled worker route.


    “Fool us once, shame on you Tories; fool us twice, shame on us.” – I’d like to think attitudes are shifting based on recent experience but I do wonder!

  14. Welsh_Siôn says:

    Carlo alert.

    King Charles allowed to vet proposed Scottish rent freeze law

    King may have lobbied ministers on emergency plan to help tenants as it could affect his Balmoral estate

    King Charles has been allowed to vet and potentially lobby for changes to emergency legislation to freeze rents in Scotland because the measures could affect tenants on his private Highland estate at Balmoral.

    A bill to stop landlords unjustifiably raising rents for the next six months because of the cost of living crisis is being rushed through the Scottish parliament this week.


  15. Alex Clark says:

    Would the Tories dump Truss and put a fourth Tory Prime Minister in place in less than 4 years? A new Prime Minister who would have less than 2 years at best to try and turn their fortunes around and give them an outside chance of winning the next election.

    Personally, I really can’t see it myself, after all, someone like Sunak wouldn’t want the job knowing that no matter what he did he was still likely to lose the next election and that would be him finished as well.

    Maybe then Truss will be the one who is still the Prime Minister at a possible de facto referendum assuming the Supreme Court kicks our case out. I’m not saying they will but we definitely want to be preparing for a UK election that will be treated in Scotland as our referendum on Independence.

    I don’t think I’d be too disappointed having her in charge of Better Together II hahaha

  16. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, the UKSC has seen fit to have a panel of just 5 judges with the UKSC President Lord Reed presiding, and just one Scottish judge, 1 Welsh and 1 Northern Irish. “Justices – Lord Reed, Lord Lloyd-Jones, Lord Sales, Lord Stephens, Lady Rose”.

    Apparently this means they think it is a UK matter of law, rather than a Scottish. This from Aileen McHarg

    Just 5 judges, eh, Know your place Scotland, the LA and ScotGov. Only Westminster gets 11.

    Not. Good. Enough.

    • Well, you might also argue that the matter is one the peoples / governments of Wales and N. Ireland are also interested in. Even England.

      Mark Drakeford’s Lab-PC coalition is rightly also concerned about Wales being an English colony rather than nation with the right to self-determine that Welsh people thought was the case. Drakeford is not a British nationalist, but a Welsh unionist. There is a big difference

      I have said this before and will say it again, trying to block an iref is an attack on unionists in all home nations. It’s not an attack on independence movements, but unionist movements. Undermining devolution is the same; it hurts unionist not nationalists. What would the effect of London closing Holyrood be? Would that hurt Yes? Quite the opposite; it would be a boon for Yes while ruining things for No completely.

      We independence supporters already think the UK is undemocratic; it’s a big reason why we want out. We are not surprised at all at Westminster trying to stop us voting. We totally expected this. However, if you are a Scottish unionist voter, this is increasingly disturbing. Your thought you were here voluntarily, but like Mark Drakeford, you are now thinking ‘erm haud oan’. At the same time, you cannot defend it to friends and family. It is just not right at all.

      A Scottish unionist thinks independence vs union is a matter for Scots alone; they just back the union. Scotland is their country, and the union a union. It is only British nationalists that think it’s a matter for England / the rUK because they don’t see Scotland as a country, but a region of one (Britain). These are actually the minority in Scotland, but are currently dominating British politics.

      This case is becoming a test case, so the choice of judges might reflect that understanding.

    • Yes cannot lose this case. If we can have our referendum, we win. If we need England’s ok and they don’t give it, we win bigger ultimately.

      They cannot stop us voting for independence, as Scots will keep doing that, either through an election, or by doing a Brian Souter, if that is their settled will.

      And boycotting a Souter type vote doesn’t work. Not if it is free and fair. You don’t even need a huge turnout, as it Yes as a fraction of the electorate that matters in terms of political ramifications domestically and internationally.

      100% Yes on a 47% turnout is 55% Yes on an 85% turnout. It’s simple maths.

      This is why Spain sent in the troops. They declared the vote illegal, then encouraged lots of their voters to boycott it. But that was worse than useless. Nope, if there was a massive Yes on anything around 50%, the political implications would be massive. So they got violent.

      Truss needs to stop us voting completely to stop us voting for indy. That or give us Russian / Iranian type, erm, free democracy.

  17. Naina Tal says:

    I think Truss may well be safe for now. The Tories won’t want to leave UK without a prime eejit for anther 3 months while they go through the internal machinations to put up another dangerous imbecilic fascist. Will they? Say they won’t?
    3 months when nothing is done, then the Christmas recess. Oh wait! That Coronation thing will be coming along. That’ll be another recess I’ll bet.
    Mind you I wouldn’t be surprised after the previous fiasco if they don’t quietly change the party rules for electing the leader then ditch MsTruss quick smart.

  18. Hamish100 says:

    Ireland border poll every 7 years.

    Separate an interesting take on 2 parliaments ie U.K. and the new Irish free state.

    This has a different take on referendum every 7 years or is it 10?

  19. Dr Jim says:

    Our doctors all want to leave Scotland says STV news, it’s terrible hard work in Scotland say the doctors
    But where are they going? where do they want to go? where? where? well they want to go to *Australia* says the STV news because life is easier and more betterer than bad Scotland
    So what’s the next question? why don’t they want to go to England? and the answer is because that’s ten times worse than Scotland
    I guess STV thought in their minds when they did this piece that it reflected badly on the Scottish government so bashed right in there, the problem with this notion is that England is still the controlling government of Scotland whether we have devolved competencies or not, so the problem is the UK system and its financial control, not the devolved governance of any individual part of Englands rotten bent union system

    With Scottish independence comes fiscal control of Scotlands own money and not a budget allocation that Englands treasury and government can afford after the removal of English expenses

    In two weeks Liz Truss has wiped £billions out of Britains economy in order to line the pockets of the billionaire money market allies of the Tory party and still these rotten to the core Tory and Labour parties complain about the Scottish governments piddling £20 million invested in their choice for freedom of democracy in their own country

    It has cost every citizen of each of the countries in Britain £ billions for some pals of Liz Truss to elect Liz Truss, and that’s before she even begins to make the cuts that will see people die, and the best the Tory media allies in Scotland can say is leave and go to Australia because that’ll be better than Scotland not being part of Liz Truss’s union

    This folks is your so called Scottish media supporting your country…..not

  20. Tam the Bam says:

    Tune in now to LBC Radio.
    Interview with Nutty Nadine.
    Apparently its a belter!

  21. Alex Clark says:

    The height of the Home Secretary’s ambition.

    • If deportation to concentration camps takes off, she’ll not be far down the deportation list of her own party’s members / supporters. Was the fate of many initial collaborators in WW2 who betrayed their own to advance themselves.

    • Capella says:

      Has she been deported?

    • Alex Clark says:

      She has never looked happier than saying that today.

    • Dr Jim says:

      In a party that are and were the worlds biggest white supremacists good luck to her thinking they think she’s one of them

      • Douglas ‘up in Elgin’ Ross is like besties with his English Tory mates in London right? They don’t exclude him and embarrass him at all right?

        And shit, he’s white British. Just too jockish. #Houseslave

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      And this on benefits …

      Suella Braverman has been criticised by experts after saying she wanted to cut welfare spending due to a “Benefits Street culture” in the UK.

      Speaking at a fringe event at the Tory party conference on Tuesday, the home secretary claimed “far too many people” are “fit to work” but choose to claim welfare instead.

      Braverman was responding to a question on whether benefits should increase with the rate of inflation so claimants would not see real-term cuts to their income.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      What an utterly loathsome woman.

  22. yesindyref2 says:

    THREE articles on the National site about the UKSC site with one from UKConstitutionalLaw, here’s another one from there:

    and with my comment in moderation as it’s evening, here’s my comment and the article quote it relates to:

    “All electoral exercises concern the ascertainment of the views of the electorate, with referendums doing so with particular specificity.

    The 2021 “electoral exercise” – the Holyrood Election – voted in a majority of MSPs who support holding a Referendum in this term of Parliament. They combined form the Government of Scotland. However, by not granting a Section 30 Order, or permanently devolving the power to hold a Referendum at will, the UK Government totally ignored THAT “ascertainment of the views of the electorate”, therefore it can not be stated with any degree of certainty at all, that they would not do exactly the same, and ignore the Referendum result.

    Therefore the proposed referendum is not only NOT self-executing, it is indeed, advisory, consultative AND non-binding.”

    • yesindyref2 says:

      By the way, that’s article 1 of 2 apparently, interesting to see what article 2 will be 🙂

    • yesindyref2 says:

      And double by the way, good for the National having 3 articles, please give it high profile, and for everyone, whatever your views are on this case, tell everybody about it.

      If the UKSC are going to say that our Parliament can not legislate for what our electorate voted for, then the more that know that Democracy is dead in Scotland, killed off by the UK Government, the better.

      • Aye, the SC, if it does its job, would at most say that Holyrood can’t technically legislate for an iref as things stand, but that this is ultimately anti-democratic; the implication being it can just go ahead anyway to be democratic if Westminster tries a Spain.

        And so we are back to English troops on Scottish streets to enforce such a move.

        There is no country in the world where democracy is repressed ‘peacefully’ simply by voting for something being declared ‘illegal’. It’s comically silly to suggest Truss could just say no and that’s that. FHS Putin would love to be able to do that without all the costly and embarrassing heavies, tear gas, arrests, election rigging etc.

        Look at Iran right now. If you want to stop the electorate voting for what they want, then that’s what’s needed. Brutal crackdowns shooting women and children.

        Over to you Liz.

    • grizebard says:

      Which last conclusion is (typically maladroitly!) reinforced by Truss herself in her recent assertion that she will ignore the result of any referendum anyway.

      I think that however uncomfortable its learned members may be in having to definitively resolve centuries of constitutional jiggery-pokery, the SC would have to turn spectacular legalistic somersaults – nay, actually suborn itself – if it is to conclude that a Scottish-only indyref2 has any formal effect on reserved powers. (Even though – as everyone well knows – it will have immense political effect.)

    • grizebard says:

      What is interesting about the SNP’s submission to the SC is that it offers the jurists a unique and tempting opportunity to live up in both word and deed to its Blair-authored and heretofore preposterous name.

      In effect the submission says “Esteemed jurists, the state of the law both nationally within the UK and internationally has moved a very long way in the last century and more, so is it not time for you to establish yourselves as the trustees of this notoriously ill-defined so-called constitution? Blow away this accreted fusty web spun out of nowhere by a bunch of exceptionalist Victorian promoters and instead create something fit for a mature 21st century democratic state.”

      “Oh, and make a start by ruling that, come what may, if this Union is to survive as a respectable democracy in the eyes of its citizens and of the world, it cannot possibly do so by trapping and silencing one of its constituent founding countries.”

      • yesindyref2 says:


        I found this of interest from Lord Hodge recently, the deputy president of the UKSC who is not one of the 5 judges on the panel. He is quoting some other dude, but with agreement:

        “For centuries judges have been charged with the responsibility of keeping [the common] law abreast of current social conditions and expectations. That is still the position. Continuing but limited development of the common law in this fashion is an integral part of the function of the judiciary.

        “current social conditions and expectations” . pdf (remove spaces)

        That quote by Nicholls was preceded by this:

        Public law in the jurisdictions of the United Kingdom is the product of the common law and statute law, notably in the devolution legislation and the Human Rights Act 1998, which incorporated into our domestic law rights and freedoms guaranteed under the European Convention on Human Rights (“ECHR”). Judges are sometimes criticised for developing the law, as if the law were a fixed set of rules which did not and should not adapt to social change. That is misconceived. Sir John Laws helpfully described the aim of the common law as “the refinement of principle over time”, a renewal created by the force of new examples, and the common law’s methods as “evolution, experiment, history and distillation”.

        ‘the aim of the common law as “the refinement of principle over time”’

        Such as 24 years since the Scotland Act was enacted, and 23 years since the Scottish Parliament has been elected and legislating.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          There is also this:

          “the refinement of principle over time” with reference to the Claim of Right 1689.

          That’s 333 years ago, but still extant! So it too, must have been “refined” in terms of principle over 333 years, as far as interpretation in the Common Law.

          Oh, and that is Scotland, by the way, oh UKSC, Scots Law, hence the need for 2 Scottish judges.

          Yes that’s right – 2. Both of them. Reed and Hodge. Make it so, please.

  23. Alex Clark says:

    Truss in her speech tomorrow will follow on from the rhetoric of Johnson and Great British nationalism and she will vow to ‘unleash the full potential of our great country’

    Cannae wait hahaha

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, “Cry ‘Havoc!’ , and let slip the dogs of war” as that great Bard of Stratford penned.

      • Hamish100 says:

        Wis it no the baddy Khan in Star Trek said that?

        • yesindyref2 says:

          Seeing as how Truss hasn’t resigned yet, what does she and Khan have in common? Apart from being baddies that is?

        • UndeadShaun says:

          No Khan said “To the last, I will grapple with thee… from Hell’s heart, I stab at thee! For hate’s sake, I spit my last breath at thee!” Which is from Moby Dick

          Your thinking of General Chang (aka christopher Plumber) the baddy in Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country. (Same director as wrath of khan) 🙂

          Like Chang and Khan Truss is bonkers.

    • Statgeek says:

      Imagine she will open with:

      “Pork Markets”

      …and give that really creepy smile she does.

  24. Dr Jim says:

    For me it comes down to is Scotland a country or is it not, the English are forced to admit it is, that being so they may ignore democracy for as long as they can get away with that and have done, but crucially to maintain that position they must then enforce their denial of the aforesaid democracy and that makes people very angry

    This is the mistake the British have always made in hoping that no one gets angry enough to do anything about their behaviour and the problem goes away or just festers forever grumbling away under the surface but never breaking forth

    Experience shows us the problem never goes away and there are always people who will manifest that anger
    Of course when the people do manifest their anger the British fall back on their tried and tested *terrorist* naming of those who have been denied their human rights as though it’s all new and incomprehensible to them that such feelings ever existed at all amongst these terrible extremist terrorists and it’s only a very few anyway so nothing to see here and we’ll clamp down on it

    There are such people in Scotland, and in numbers, and more than ready willing and able to vent their anger on behalf of their and their countries rights, nobody wants to do it but they’re prepared and they will

    These people are not shouty hooligans showing up at football matches to use as an excuse for a fight, these are serious individuals quite prepared to rip England a new one, and they know how to go about it

    It always comes down to violence in the end with the British because they are democracy denying fascists masquerading as the nice guys

    The world already knows what they are and they won’t sympathise with them when they bring it on themselves ……….again !!

  25. Tam the Bam says:


    Conservative Central Office advise that the PM will not be attending conference today since ‘coming out’ as a Dalek.

    More to follow:

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      … with apologies to all Daleks.

      • James Mills says:

        Home Secretary Braverman has taken note of the suggestion that Truss may be Dalek in origin . She is investigating the possibility of diverting planes of asylum seekers from Rwanda to the planet Skaro .

        • Tam the Bam says:

          In her annual “State of Confusion” address to the nation..PM Trulek announced :-
          ” I will not allow deliberate anti-growth distractions from anti-Brexiters and Cybermen.”
          No Cybermen were available for comment.

  26. yesindyref2 says:

    Last thing before I do a bit of regrouting in the kitchen (doesn’t make me a bad person).

    It’s interesting though not surprising that the SNP’s intervention quoted both Reed and Hodge, and I daresay even with just 5 panellists for unimportant Scottish parliamentary matters involving a full third of the landmass of the UK, rather than the full 11 (it’s always an odd number to allow a decision) for vastly more important UK Parliament matters. So here’s from Lord Reed as quoted by the SNP:

    6.7. Whether through the enduring nature of the Scottish constitutional tradition or by way of the rebalancing of the three branches of government as part of a more modern understanding of what the rule of law means, it is not the case (if it ever was) that the UK Parliament is without restraint or limit. It may well have supreme legislative competence, in that it can legislate in relation to any area, but it is not the case that, consistent with the rule of law, it is able to override, remove, or otherwise interfere with fundamental rights (such as the right to self-determination) without clear and unambiguous statutory authority12 and without a clear, rational and evidenced basis for doing so. In these circumstances, there is neither unambiguous statutory authority nor any clear, rational and evidenced basis for seeking to interfere with such a fundamental right.

    Preventing a consultative referendum, I’d say, does interfere with such a fundamental right.

    • I’ve got the bathroom tiles to tidy up, YIR2.
      I assure my Everlovin’ that the war in Ukraine is to blame for the hold up.
      The UKSC will side with the Scottish Government. Why?
      Because the English Parliament will ‘allow’ a consultative referendum to go ahead.

      If, as expected YES prevails, the Brits will spend another 5 years arguing that the ensuing ‘Referendum’, was a ‘consultation’, an opinion poll, and not binding in law, not ‘lawful’ enough for them to begin the process of Scotland leaving their precious Union.

      We can’t let that happen.

      The next UK GE is de facto the Independence Referendum.
      The Lords and the Ladies in their powdered wigs will find in favour of the Scottish Government.
      If the SNP Greeens ‘win’ the GE, then is the time to fight for our Freedom.
      Boycott WM for a start.

      Self determination is the right of every citizen of every nation on the planet.
      Only those nations held captive by force of another nation are denied this basic human right.

      Scotland is a militarily occupied colony of England.
      They plunder our wealth and control most of our institutions, professions, and government, by threat and suffocating control of every aspect of our lives through media hegemony, and what I term, the Scotia Nostra, the Lairds, Barons, the church, academia, and finance, oil and gas production, and so on.

      I can think of no other so called ‘democratic country’ which is controlled and suppressed by its neighbour like we are.
      It may end in actual conflict.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        I think Law has a distance to go yet Jack.

        I did check and posting is supposedly open to anybody, with moderation, but I see my comment didn’t make it past moderation. Is it because:

        1). It hasn’t got there yet
        2). I picked a hole in the argument of a top expert [1]
        3). They don’t like my moniker
        4). They don’t like my avatar
        5). I’m just an ignorant pleb and beneath notice

        Answers on an ecard to ukconstitutionallaw dot org

        [1] One who has written normally some excellent articles, such as this one from 2014 – which I agree with:

        • Alex Clark says:

          Obviously option 5 ;0)

        • He makes the ‘Right To Bear Arms’ point very well, YIR2. Look how that turned out.
          That we have a written constitution will be paramount. I don’t t agree with his observation that the WM flexibility has worked well for hundreds of years.
          Let the people decide through their elected representatives?

          Let’s get free of this terrible Union first.
          To develop a lasting constitution will follow interim measures to get us over the line.
          There comes a point where not every single value or mores can be accommodated in our constitution.
          There are plenty of examples of good constitutional governments from whose constitutions we may abstract ‘beliefs reasonably held’.
          Freedom of speech, rights to worship, food, shelter, health and so on.
          His point is well taken when he describes a free for all convention, where only the powerful and organised voices are heard.
          Set up a committee to design a horse, and you end up with a camel.
          I always envisaged a protracted Transition from UK to Self Government.
          Eventually a written constitution will evolve as we reralise that we, the people of scotland are sovereign, once again.
          I am sauteing tatties. I can smell that they are ready.

  27. Capella says:

    Jusry still out on whether we have the right to ask ourselves a question.

    Supreme Court ‘should find UK undermining democracy in indyref2 case’

    THE Supreme Court may decide that Scotland does not have the power to hold indyref2 – but it should also conclude the UK Government is “undermining democracy” through its refusal to countenance a second vote, two constitutional experts have said.

    They warned that the Supreme Court (UKSC) should note that manifesto pledges made by Scotland’s elected leadership were “at risk of being thwarted by bodies with less democratic legitimacy”.

    “The problem is … the behaviour of the UK Government, in its unwillingness to recognise the ‘material changes in circumstances’ since 2014, and an apparent unwillingness to negotiate with a democratically elected leader,” the experts said.

    I doubt that the Tory government will be concerned about undermining democracy. They’re experts at that.

    • grizebard says:

      After what follows, to me the first sentence sounds like whistling in the dark. They assume that the SC will turn its back on developed law just because… well… to do otherwise would be “letting the side down”… or sumthin’…

      • Capella says:

        Yes – they do seem to start with the conclusion then work back to support it by making up precedents e.g. Westminster always implements referendum results. But hey – these are very clever people.

  28. Capella says:

    Tory policies cost lives. Shock.

    Tory economic policies ‘likely’ caused more deaths than Covid, academic says

    Researchers said the “not only shocking but shameful” statistics showed that almost 335,000 more deaths than expected were recorded across Scotland, England and Wales over an eight-year period.

    Experts at Glasgow University and the Glasgow Centre for Population Health (GCPH) examined data on deaths in the three countries over the period 2012 to 2019.

    Commenting on the findings, Ruth Dundas, a professor of social epidemiology at the University of Glasgow and one of the authors of the report, said: “This study shows that in the UK a great many more deaths are likely to have been caused by UK Government economic policy than by the Covid-19 pandemic.”

  29. En passant, this, from one of BBC Plantation Quay’s Lord Haw Haws, Andrew Kerr.

    “Tributes have been paid to Ian Hamilton KC who stole the Stone of Destiny in 1950. Former SNP politician Alex Neil said it gave fellow home-rule campaigners hope. He added that Ian Hamilton told him in the past year, the stone that is now in Edinburgh Castle is the REAL stone.”
    How can we ‘steal’ something that the English pillaged from Scotland?
    Kerr, brainwashed from birth to be an obedient little Jock ‘faithful retainer’. (q.v., John Cleese.)
    He’ll have merit badges from his Britler Youth organisation honouring his Chritstian God, his English Monarch, and his ‘country’, Britengland.
    Disgusting little snipe.
    ‘the ‘media hegemony’ to which I allude above.
    Kerr, we are held under English House Arrest, our continent Europe, and the 27 EU borders closed to us by Braverman, who would send wretched humans to Rwanda on a ‘plane.

    Get up of your knees, man.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Even the Courier used the term reclaimed.

      If you steal something in Scotland it’s stolen goods so it was returned to the people of Scotland. Returned not stolen.
      Just as we should return stolen goods back to other nations taken during colonisation.

      Hi many pillocks like Kerr are in the bbc at PQ.

      Are there no people of Independent thought or mind in that building?

      • If any of them expressed and independent thought, their feet wouldn’t touch.
        They were brainwashed from birth.
        Servitude is ingrained in them from birth. Their reward? Top of the dung heap controlling the serfs for their English Masters.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Ach Kerr has problems putting his expensively maintained and tax deductible teeth in the correct hole, it’s a Kerr thing as regularly demonstrated by Juan in Holyrood…

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Hence “Juan-coming” being shouted in the chamber and everyone diving for shelter from random trajectory sub-sonic wallies…
        The only issue he’s ever apologised for…
        Andrew has list to work through, like his boss…

  30. Hamish100 says:

    I see elsewhere all we have to do is “Vote Alba. Declare UDI.”

    That’s it. Done deal. How easy was that.

    I can go and watch the tele.

    Whit… it’s mair complicated than shout UDI and putting an advert in the National ?.

    I’m fair gutted but not as deluded as some it seems.

    • UDI is a common and successful method, however, aye, we’d kindae still need to actually get electorate consent for such a move, e.g. through a referendum or election plebiscite.

      If not, Scots wouldn’t be self-determining and the international community would be highly unlikely to recognise the move unless there was other solid evidence that it was clearly the will of Scots, and a vote just was not possible due to a violent crackdown by England or something.

      • Aye, Hamish, but lucky for us…

        In an Advisory Opinion in 2010 the International Court of Justice declared that UDIs are not illegal under international law. Despite this there is no absolute guarantee that a UDI will receive recognition by the international community. All declarations of independence without a formal agreement are UDIs.

        “A UDI does not create a state, it is not among the criteria of statehood as specified in the Montevideo Convention” – ICJ’s Advisory Opinion on the UDI in respect of Kosovo,

        “The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with other states” – Montevideo Convention, Article I.

        There will be very few, if any, countries at the UN we’ve not lost too in a football international, and a few we’ve beaten too. The French, for example, will never forget ‘Goal McFadden!’.

    • Dr Jim says:

      That’s how dumb and stupid that lot are, they don’t even consider that what they say is anti democratic and in every way exactly the same as the British Nationalists
      They don’t care about the notion that the majority of the people must want the same thing before you go around making declarations on their behalf, that’s Tory Labour ideology and the reason Alba does not attract people who have the ability to think

      • Anyone that says stuff like ‘John Swinney could deliver independence tomorrow but he won’t so he’s a unionist!’ is quite obviously not an independence supporter.

        • Dr Jim says:

          I think this type of commentary is a left over from that famous psychic and guru of the Abla movement Stuart Campbell the all knowing all seeing mystic mind reader whose only visits to Scotland have ever been by demand of the Scottish judiciary

          • Hamish100 says:

            Forgot about him….

            And he banned me too! 😇🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

          • Notable were his posts / tweets on his love for Southern English life through extensive photography of its scenery and architecture. Excursions typically finished with a glass of fine English cider in a warm beer garden.

            Post brexit, we have seen an influx of EU citizens to Scotland seeking refuge. Also quite a lot of Scots given many of these were made to feel unwelcome for not supporting brexit.

            I believe the blogger in question didn’t oppose brexit, so should be fine. Also doesn’t like left wing ‘woke’ people, so will be quite at home in the shires.

  31. Dr Jim says:

    It is amusing at times to hear Truss and her English Tories trying to convince themselves and England that the population of Scotland who democratically elect Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP don’t understand the *British* people

    Oh and btw Truss now calls us *these people*, y’know the Scots who vote to democratically elect our government

    I’m even more happy now that Truss and her English/British Tories have at last decided that indeed we are Scottish, I think it shows an acceptance of the difference even though she still intends crush us

    In the words of Billy Connolly, dae ye bloody think so?

    • But her growth growth growth plan is working already.
      Mortgage repayments have grown, electricity and gas bills have grown, monthly rent has grown, the price of my wee chocolate mints have grown, and the Scottish People’s rage and determination to leave England has grown.
      I give it 6 months before her back stab benchers call for a GE.
      The money men will make billions, and everybody’s personal debt will grow.
      Unlike a verruca, which you can bazooka away, the ugly growth of Truss’ New Britain requires more drastic action.

      Now is the time to act.
      Where’s Dross and Mundell this week?

  32. Hamish100 says:

    Looking at a picture of the Tory conference. 90% male.

    100% smug looking gits.

  33. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, Who would you rather be Prime Minister of the UK?

    Liz Truss
    Boris Johnson
    Genghis Khan
    Diana from V

  34. Yougov Scots subsample.

    • Do you approve or disapprove of the UK Government’s record to date?
      6% Approve
      82% Disapprove
      12% DK

      Do you think the Conservative party is competent or incompetent?
      9% Competent
      78% Incompetent

  35. Nice. Vive la Auld Alliance!

    And in case people have never read this…

    The BBC would call it a speech to the ‘British’, you know, like e.g. Andy Murray is, while the ‘Scots’ are the sectarian ones with the orange sashes and union flags that march around Glasgow spitting on people. It’s why Ibrox is a sea of saltires!

    Speech delivered by General de Gaulle at Edinburgh, 23rd June 1942
    I do not think that a Frenchman could have come to Scotland at any time without being sensible of a special emotion. Scarcely can he set foot in this ancient and glorious land before he finds countless natural affinities between your country and ours dating from the very earliest times. In the same moment, awareness of the thousand links, still living and cherished, of the Franco-Scottish Alliance, the oldest alliance in the world, leaps to his mind.

    When I say “Franco-Scottish Alliance,” I am thinking, firstly, of course, of that close political and military entente which, in the Middle Ages, was established between our ancient monarchy and yours…

    • Welsh_Siôn says:


      Please check with Mme. s_s, but isn’t there a slight coquille in that translation? (I’m assuming de Gaulle spoke in French – unless the mistake is his.)

      I do not think that a Frenchman could have come to Scotland at any time without being sensible of a special emotion.

      Surely, this should read,

      I do not think that a Frenchman could have come to Scotland at any time without being *sensitive to* a special emotion.


      Those accursed faux amis get everywhere, n’est-ce pas?

      • I’m not sure. I understood De Gualle spoke good English, so maybe he spoke in English and mistake is likely his! That or he spoke French and the translator was also French!

        ‘Sensible’ is a false friend. Mrs SS has said it when she means sensitive as that’s what it means in French.

        The mistakes in the text do sound like those made by French friends and family.

        • Welsh_Siôn says:

          You will be aware of the (apocryphal) story of Mme de Gaulle being asked what she wanted in life and replying, ‘appiness’. (You have to say it with a strong French accent …)

          Hubby gave her the dirtiest of looks, apparently!

  36. UndeadShaun says:

    There is no way she will call an election, though she may be gone by xmas.

    Next time the tories plan to have the MPs choose the next leader.
    But it still winnae save the union.

  37. Dr Jim says:

    In a new report aired by both STV and BBC we hear today that Tory policies have directly lead to the premature deaths of 20.000 Scots
    Now that’s not anything to do with Covid, this is just Tories doing what Tories do, they kill Scottish people and they do it deliberately, and they do it from the safety of offices in England, they didn’t come and push anybody down the stairs or push them in front of a bus, with the stroke of a pen English Tories kill Scots

    Efficient isn’t it

    • Key workers quickly forgotten too. Not so long ago they were lauded by the Tories because it suited them. Now if they can’t pay their leccy bill / mortgage, they should just ‘Stop being a nurse and just get a better paid job, like being a banker!’.

    • You may forget Wee Willie Winkie boasting in our parliament that the troty Lib Dem austerity package was a success in bringing down the debt.
      As an estimated 120,00 died of Blue and Yellow ‘Austerity’, Willie Rennie hailed it as a stellar example of his precious Union managing the economy.
      May they all rot in their version of hell.
      Of course he’s getting dosh from Brown’s Brit Think Tank now.
      They are the devil’s spawn.
      They don’t care what damage and death that they wreak on their fellow Scots.

  38. Alex Clark says:

    New poll

    • Alex Clark says:

      I am highly sceptical that this poll shows no change at all in SNP support since June.

      • Scotland is already lost to the union. Don’t expect sudden changes in election VI. Just continued gradual ones. Our pro-indy voters (which includes about 1/3 of Labour supporters) had already worked out that the brexit Tories were a total f’n disaster. It’s just England waking up a bit now.

  39. Yougov out too. The change is the interesting bit for Y/N, as they are not a Yes friendly pollster.

    Change on May.

    Should Scotland be an independent country? (YouGov)
    Yes 49% (+4)
    No 51% (-4)

    Wipeout for the North British Tories for the English parliament they love so much…
    45(-1)% SNP
    31(+9)% Lab
    12(-7)% Con
    7(+1) Lib
    3(-)% Grn

    Shows the changes here in terms of Y/N and SNP/Green are not directly linked; just a general correlation. SNP + Green stays basically the same, Yes goes up. A lot of Labour voters back indy.

    • Alex Clark says:

      It doesn’t look any less dubious when coloured in LOL

    • Alex Clark says:

      Oops, the above was a reply to the other post.

      The YouGov poll is very strange as well in that with the same 1000 or so people being asked, support for Independence increases by almost 9% (4/45) but those saying they intend to vote SNP drops by 2% (1/46)

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