Liz Truss finally made a public appearance after keeping quiet for a week while her government burned down the economy, trashed the pound, threatened to tank pension funds and saw an emergency intervention from the Bank of England in an attempt to protect the British economy from the British Government. Interest rates seem likely to rise to 6%, their highest level for years, which will translate into large increases in mortgage payments and rent costs, adding a housing crisis the the energy and food price crises we already have to endure.
But according to Truss none of this is her fault. To call her series of interviews with local radio in England car crashes is to woefully under estimate the sheer horrific awfulness of her performance. Sure, it was a car crash, but only if your car had collided with a minibus carrying Freddy Krueger, Michael Myers, Buffalo Bill, Hannibal Lector, that guy from the Hills Have Eyes with the chainsaw, Pinhead, Doctor Doom, Davros, Doctor Evil, and Stephen Kerr who then chase you down the street screaming about ferries.
Chris Philp, the best proof of nominative determinism to ever exist as it is supremely fitting for a Conservative minister in this miserable government to have a name that sounds like the noise your sphincter makes when you are unsure if it was just a small fart or something wetter and far more alarming. Philp was one of the few government ministers who were prepared to do public interviews to defend this merdefest, and was excoriated on LBC radio by Nick Ferrari, who demanded that Philp stop treating listeners like fools as he vainly attempted to spout the unconvincing line that the self-inflicted disaster of Kwarteng’s mini-budget/maxi-damage was really down to Putin and assorted other global problems.
Meanwhile in Scotland in this supposed Union, in the midst of an economic crisis, the meltdown of the pound and the threat that hundreds of thousands may no longer be able to afford their mortgage payments or rent, a tanking pound that will translate into even higher inflation, and food bills that will soar even more, and the threat of pension funds nose-diving, the opposition parties and their client journalists are obsessed with ferries and procurement processes and amounts of money that don’t even register compared to the magnitude of the many billions that the Conservatives are costing us all. It’s so embarrassingly parochial and infantile. Yet more proof that Scotland cannot have adult politics and a grown up media until we escape the clutches of this appallingly dysfunctional Westminster system. It’s not just Philp who is treating us all like fools.
A 40p collapse in the pound this year suddenly makes the NHS very cheap for private healthcare companies in the USA to own. Truss and her allies will be looking to sell off the last few remaining public assets to pay for the mess that they have created. They will squeeze public services past the bone, and will make all of us pay for years to come, all so that wealthy Conservative donors can buy a bigger yacht and a third holiday home with the tax breaks that we are all paying for.
This is what this so called Union has in store for us, impoverishment and the destruction of our civil and employment rights, the neutering of the Scottish Parliament and the reduction of Scotland to the status of a ‘historic region’ of a “single British nation” with no more political import than Mercia or Wessex.
This is a UK where apologists for this woeful government like Allison Pearson of the Telegraph tell us : “When I listen to the new Italian prime minister speak, I hear mainstream Conservative values that millions of people share.” That’s the actual far-right extremist and so close to fascist that it makes no difference Giorgia Meloni, who now seemingly counts as ‘mainstream Conservative in this UK. “I can’t tell the difference between a fascist and the modern Conservative Party,” is not the great killer point that Pearson seems to think it is. Remember how in 2014 Better Together told Scotland that we needed the UK to protect us from political extremism. Fascism is no longer just knocking at the door, it has already been invited in and is making itself cosy.
The case for Scottish independence has never looked stronger.The supposed economic strength of the UK has evaporated. Nicola Sturgeon and Kate Forbes seem safe pairs of hands by comparison to Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng.
It’s not just the pound which is plummeting, so is support for the conservatives in opinion polling. A YouGov poll published on Thursday gave the following astonishing results, LAB: 54% (+9) CON: 21% (-7), LIB DEM: 7% (-2), GRN: 6% (-1), The figures in brackets are changes from the previous YouGov poll published earlier this week. Fieldwork for this new poll was carried out on Wednesday and Thursday.
Labour are now an incredible 33 points ahead of the Conservatives in voting intention. We have not seen anything like this since the years leading up to the Blair landslide of the late 1990s. Another poll out on Thursday, this time from Survation, put Labour 21 points ahead of the Conservatives. This is wipeout territory for the Tories. Just 37% of 2019 Tory voters say they would vote for Liz Truss’s party now. Lewis Goodall of Sky News points out that even Blair only had a 13% lead in 1997, and current polls point to a Labour majority of 300. The polls may be volatile right now due to the shock of the Conservatives’ self-inflicted economic crisis and are likely to settle down, but this is a polling level that the Conservatives are going to be unlikely to recover from.
Subsamples must be taken with more than a grain of salt, but for what it’s worth the Scottish subsample in the Survation poll shows 51% SNP, 29% Lab, 11% Con, 6% Lib and 1% Green. That’s a 52% pro-independence vote and the probable annihilation of the Conservatives in Scotland.
However there is no prospect of a General Election any time soon. The Tory turkeys will not vote for Christmas. We are going to have to endure this hideous government until it is forced to the polls in 2024. It would be nice to think that the long Tory nightmare was finally coming to an end, but Labour won’t take us back into the Single Market or Customs Union never mind the EU, it won’t reform the House of Commons and will be as contemptuous of Scottish democracy as the Tories, and even in a best case scenario, the electoral pendulum in England will inevitably one day swing back to the right and we will be in for a Tory nightmare all over again. There is only one way to break this vicious cycle, and that’s with independence.
You know things are truly dire for the Conservatives when Liz Truss consents to be interviewed by Reporting Scotland and they don’t even give her the chance to attack the SNP about the ferries.
On Monday night I did my first in-person public speaking event since I had the stroke. It was the launch of Yes Carrick, our new local Yes group, which I am delighted to support. I did it because the venue was literally around the corner so didn’t involve a long journey. I managed to talk for some twenty minutes which was better than I had expected. I might be able to do more events in future as long as transport is provided.
My Gaelic maps of Scotland are still available, a perfect gift for any Gaelic learner or just for anyone who likes maps. The maps cost £15 each plus £7 P&P within the UK. You can order by sending a PayPal payment of £22 to firstname.lastname@example.org (Please remember to include the postal address where you want the map sent to).
I am now writing the daily newsletter for The National, published every day from Monday to Friday in the late afternoon. So if you’d like a daily dose of dug you can subscribe to The National, Scotland’s only pro-independence newspaper, here: Subscriptions from The National
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Reblogged this on Ramblings of a now 60+ Female.
I’m certain you’re right that the tories knowing that defeat looks inevitable will try to cling on desperately until the bitter end praying that something turns up that might save them
We all know that’s unlikely to happen, and a yes victory in an October 2023 referendum can only make things worse LOL.
However, no matter how much they may wish to cling on things could get so bad this coming year that no government could hang on to power. I’m talking of civil unrest and mass demonstrations demanding that they go and go immediately.
Not even their tame journalists and billionaire media barons will be able to save them if that transpires, they will be toast. Refusing to increase Universal Credit in line for inflation as promised would be one such scenario where it’s unlikely in my view that those hardest hit would continue to meekly put up with the injustices that the Tories inflict on them.
The Tories have an opportunity to put right some of this appalling mess when Parliament resumes – they can vote down some of the most contentious parts of Kwarteng’s ”Fiscal event ”, or Tory suicide note as some are calling it .
However that would require several things – a) a backbone and b) empathy , neither of which is a prerequisite for a Tory MP in the 21st C .
My bet is that they cross their fingers , pray to the spirit of Margaret Thatcher and buy industrial quantities of incontinence pads .
The polls just got interesting. One had Lab on 573 seats to the Tories…wait for it…1
Yup. That’s the Truss bounce. The other was more ‘realistic’ and gave the Tories 106 seats.
The first poll gave all the Scottish Con and most Lib seats to the SNP, and Lab took 11 SNP, so it looked like SNP 46 Lab 12, Lib 1, while the second just gave Lab Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, so it it was SNP 56, Lab 2, Lib 1.
Progress, but there’s still a little left to do. 🙂
Hopefully Scotland will be out before then but it seems to me that first poll would give the SNP as the official opposition, which from the precedent of Canada in 1993 or Mauritius in 1995 could be hilarious. Is there a way on that first poll that third place be occupied by PC though?
Anybody thinking they should vote Labour as this will free them from the Tories are fooling themselves, they are merely obtaining some respite. Like the Terminator they will be back, voted in again by the people of England.
Even worse there is little difference in Labour and Tory attitude to Scotland, we are an inconvenience to them exploiting our resources. They love Scotland, it’s just the people they have a problem with. If you show your servitude you can be accepted as almost an Englishman (but never really one).
Vote Labour , Scotland – and get ?
No return to the EU
No Single Market
No Freedom of Movement
No change to FPTP electoral buggins’ turn politics
No Scottish referendum
No change in the House of Labour Peers ( except more of them )
No change to Pacific Quay Propaganda
More Union Flags
More Westminster control of our resources
More talk of Federalism – but only talk as it is a pointless exercise in the UK
More Ian Murray parading around in his Union Suit as SoSS
More Sarwar talking sh*te
and eventually More Tory Government when England gets tired of Starmer !
and back to square one .
England’s latest love affair with the Tories may be coming to an end, but any Scot old enough to remember the decimation wrought by Thatcher, knows full well it is only a matter of time before they wheedle their way back into favour in England and the cycle begins again with Scots being mere spectators.
Just as with Blair, Starmer is all about having the reins of power not actually using them to change direction – They fear upsetting the real power circling the City, what I’ve often referred to as the 5th nation of the UK, the bright sparks who dreamed up PFI.
I doubt Scots are engaged over Tories or Labour in power in London, it is not Scotland corrupt to it’s political core (despite HMS James Cook’s etc best attempts to paint it so) but the UK.
Where other than in the UK would a government be able to, let alone willing, to crash the economy for political gain ?
Independence IS the only exit to this cyclic farce, what happens in England is for England to resolve, we’ve had enough.
Truss & Co practically promised England that they would shave Scotland’s resources to pay for their plans, and few of them blinked. It wasn’t until their own finances were going belly up they shifted in the polls the way they have. Scots do well to pay attention to that, and consider other things, such as the location of Trident.
Recent event’s ie brexit, and the latest kamikazi assault on the
majority of the population of the uk, don’t look like the
dying breaths of an out of control right wing tory party to me.
In fact they remind me very much of the stuff jacob rees mogg’s daddy william wrote about in his books. can’t remember which one specifically,may have been
The Sovereign Individual, i still have a copy somewhere.
it all looks like the closing stages of a ‘PLAN’…not a F%&k
Anyway my main concern is “Will” those who believe in Scottish Independence…put thier differences to one side
and push on together. cause if they don’t..it’s over and done.
(Paul and rev stu need to kiss and make up …pronto.)
And the rest!
Independant Scotland is not Gauaranteed.
So stop fannying about.
We are, Scotland is,at deaths door…a lot of us have already
wen’t through it.
only the scottish people can do this, not politicians!
Armour on!……………….or become beggars!
It has been said that the UKSC ‘verdict on Indy’ (Oct 11th/12th) may actually take several months to report.
Does anyone else feel , as I do, that, given the immediate financial catastrophe about to engulf us all, there needs to be more urgency in escaping this ever more toxic union with England? I think we need to hear more and have some sort of actions just now, even withdrawing from the cesspit of WM!
Given all the talk of a ‘Labour ascendancy’, keep in mind that Labour are not popular at all, it’s just they are a bit less unpopular than the disastrous evil Tories. It’s much like a choice between being punched in the face or being hit with a hammer; people clamor to be punched.
As for Scotland, it was successive Labour governments that catapulted the SNP to victory in 2011, ultimately resulting in 45% for indepdence. Labour are so unpopular in Scotland that they actually managed to come in behind the hated Tories in the last 2 elections here. That takes some doing.
All that’s going to happen now is some Tory voters will go back to their Labour home in Scotland. Not a single SNP/Green voter will go to Labour. Why would they do that now when they could have done it before?
Remember, over 50% of Scots now don’t want any sort of UK government, they want independence. You can offer them any devo + any UK government they want and, as per the SSAS, they chose independence. These people are dead to the UK and it doesn’t matter jack doo doo who’s in No. 10. Sir Keir, Lord of New Labour telling Scots they cannot vote and England owns them is not going to help the union one bit.
And if figures are to be believed around 40% of Labour voters support Independence. This has not been factored in as part of the polling. On a single ticket issue at the next G.E, i.e. Independence, a good chunk of said voters, professing to support Labour now , will vote for the only party that can deliver that. The S.N.P.
Welcome to First Past the Post. That’s how it works; Labour just has to hold onto 10 million while Tories drop to 7 million. However, that’s not what the polls are showing. The YouGov and Survation samples both show around 20-30% of the 2019 Tory vote switching to Labour. That would imply a transfer of perhaps 3 million votes, making it ~13 million for Labour and 10 for the Tories. They haven’t raced to the bottom or the Lib Dems and Greens would be showing higher numbers.
Forget about defusing the narrative of a Labour ascendancy. What we are being gifted is the demolition of the myth that Labour needs any Scottish seats – they’re going to achieve a majority in England, then they’ll dodge PR reform and Brexit reversal. Reading between the lines, Gordon Brown’s leaked proposal seems to replace the House of Lords with a House of Council Leaders, while keeping FPTP for English council elections.
Since 2011, unionists in Scotland have clung onto the hopes that when the FPTP pendulum finally swings back and puts a Labour government in Westminster, that it’ll somehow reverse the support for Scottish independence. Well, that fantasy’s about to be punctured.
What has not been factored in for those opinion polls is the defacto Indy referendum that will take place as part of any G.E. Estimates put Labour Indy supporters at circa 40%. This being the case if Independence is front and centre in the campaign then a good chunk of Indy minded Labour voters here will vote S.N.P. And remember these polls are NOT bad for the S.N.P. Their vote is holding. Simply the Unionist vote is coalescing around Labour. It will dissipate again and split
One for W_S and countryfolks.
Deficit in independent Wales would be ‘fraction’ of UK estimates, Dublin City University study finds
‘GAME-changing” research has found the fiscal gap in the early days of an independent Wales would be a fraction of what has previously been assumed from UK Government figures – which Plaid Cymru believes will significantly advance the argument for self-determination.
Figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) are often quoted as suggesting the deficit an independent Wales would incur on day one would be £13.5 billion.
But groundbreaking research by Professor John Doyle of Dublin City University has concluded the fiscal gap – the difference between raised revenue and government expenditure – would actually be £2.6bn.
IIRC Dr Craig Dalzell some years ago did a wonderful presentation on GERS where he conducted a similar exercise live, picking away at the costs to establish where Scotland could be on day one, I’m sure it was on Youtube and you can bet there is a Common Weal paper on it.
Ta, muchly – I was going to supply the nation.cymru version of that and Adam’s letter to Party Members.
The Tories will win the next general election because they’ll lower social security benefits because the poor are lazy work shy wasters who are a drain on our great aspirational society and England will cheer Yaay! then they’ll raise pensions for our needy deserving and vulnerable elderly who must be respected and taken care of because pensioners always vote, then they’ll threaten the population of England with a Labour government in the pocket of that terrible Scottish Sturgeon woman who’s a rabid England hating socialist who’ll take all their money to give to Scotland and Bazinga Tories win again
Now that’s just my guess but even if I’m 100% wrong there’s nothing Scotland or Wales can do about it because we don’t get to decide who the government of the UK will be, Scotland hasn’t had a vote that counted in that exercise for nearly 60 years
Even if every vote had gone from SNP to Labour at the last general election the Tories would still have won in England by around 21 seats
England decides who the UK government will be, we just get to watch them doing it, unless we become independent, but why would we want to do that and have to make our own decisions that might be wrong when Englands voters are so caring and very much smarter than us
Just look at how well things have gone for the last 315 years, don’t look at the food banks, look at the global picture, don’t look at the homeless, look at the UK projection of power around the world, look at the prosperity of our nation
The pensioners might not be getting what they have been promised by Sunak and Johnson under Truss and Kwarteng.
Scrapping state pension triple lock ‘under consideration’, warns minister
I have to admit that photo of wee Ed in Alex’s pocket was genius. Such a powerful image it had the desired effect and more. All they have to do is replace with wee Keir in Nicola’s pocket (or purse) and it will work a treat again IMHO. No matter how big the union jack Keir stands in front of this will finish him.
They did it with Miliband and Corbyn and it worked a treat for them, they’ll do it with Starmer and folk will believe it because he looks like he has the personality of milk and a blancmange backbone
Tucked away in the tory media,
We will raise pensions and benefits by the rate of wages rise as part of the triple lock.
We can’t afford the inflation rate this year.
The government where promises are lies still to be found out.
Elsewhere the ‘Black Socks’ of Deeping are on the march.
Reference , lbc radio, ferrari programme.
Head teacher sends 50 pupils home due to not wearing black socks as required by the school’s dress code.
We can’t afford to raise the pension and benefits by the rate of inflation because we already spent that money scrapping the 45p rate of income tax for those earning more than £150,000
Not to worry though, it will trickle down to the poor and the pensioners eventually.
Was just out walking the dogs with Mrs SS and a neighbour. The latter is English but with a Danish mum. English husband. They loved Scotland and retired here. Traditionally Labour voters. They were concerned about independence, not really understanding it and worried about the economy etc, but also were appalled at the No campaign in 2014. Anyway, we’ve had some good chats on various topics around this once they found out I was Yes. They wanted to learn more and be better informed.
Today, after talking about recent events, she says to us ‘Well, to be honest, with all that’s happened in the past few years (brexit etc), and now all this, I can say I would be quite happy with an independent Scotland’.
Thanks unionists. Job done.
Oh, and not once in all our political discussions have her or her husband ever mentioned ferries.
Alan Cochrane has an article in the Torygraph today complaining about how the meltdown in the economy caused by Kertwengs “mini-budget” has diverted all the attention away from Nicola Sturgeon’s government’s failures over the ferries.
He insists that the FM was on the ropes and would have been under pressure from her own supporters at the conference if it wasn’t for all the attention being given to what is going on at Westminster.
You really couldn’t make this shit up LOL
Given recent UK polling, the SNP must feel really ‘under pressure’ to copy Lizz Truss’s mini-budget policies right?
Never trust a Tory, when will some people ever learn?
Definition of idiocy – interview with DRoss by STV’s Colin MacKay last night .
Faced with the Tory nightmare of the financial meltdown in The Pound , Mortgage rates , Pensions under threat , Energy catastrophe ….
Q. ”Do you still support the Chancellor’s budget ?
A. ”Yes ! ”
Q. ” Are you worried about your mortgage ?”
A. ”Yes !”
Q. ”But you still support the Chancellor and Liz Truss ? ”
A. ”Yes ! ”
But bbc politics – U.K.
Ferries, police, ferries ee aw, ee aw, ee aw…€
How much did the tories right off re covid ppe – actual corruption??
Dross should tell us on behalf of his U.K. government. Police are you investigating ?
No doubt they see the essenpee as just mone, mone……. Sorry moan.
I can’t believe the new Chancellor lied about OBR advice. Can you?
Bombshell Ian Blackford letter shows Kwasi Kwarteng refused expert OBR forecast before mini-budget
Three representatives from the OBR were at No 10 this morning for a meeting with Truss. They were there less than 40 minutes so I see that as a sign it didn’t go well. This lady is not for turning apparently. Let’s ee how long that lasts.
Revenge of the Bean Counters!
Who would believe Liz Truss would lie that everyone’s energy bill would be capped at £2,500.
Who would believe they would infer there is an energy price freeze when my gas unit cost goes up 40% and electricity 21% on 1st Oct. It’s over 100% since this time last year (about 140% in my case).
She deliberately misinformed, the rate is capped, the AVERAGE bill MAY be 2,500 – But given the Truss/Kwarteng wheeze of a mini-Mega-budget announcement which hammered sterling, and the differential to the dollar, watch that particular space.
So Tory policies bankrupt businesses and they want “welfare” while Liz Truss plans to reduce benefits,
87% of Scottish pubs ask for government aid to survive winter
I wonder if any of those are Weatherspoons?
I read 32 pubs are to be sold due to rising costs and staff shortage problems. Wonder what caused that.
Remainers or Nats, prolly. It’s amazing how many things they ruin with their inability to find wanton destruction of everything fun.
Or run by ex-Northern Ireland squaddies …
Of the 32 mentioned in the media, none are in Scotland unless you include Durham as a ‘sunak’ Scottish region
Alex Clark @ 12.50 ref Cochrane Torygraph article: “He insists that the FM was on the ropes and would have been under pressure from her own supporters at the conference if it wasn’t for all the attention being given to what is going on at Westminster.” Ferries, ferries, fairies, squirrels ….
Poor Nicola’ll be suffering from attention-seeking deficit syndrome now. She should learn from her Westminster betters how to be humble, self-effacing and more importantly, totally useless.
Meanwhile, just to cheer us all up, the new 50p coins with the King’s heid are about to be revealed. Yeaaah! Must rush out and buy some.
I believe the inscription on the reverse of the 50p is ‘Hos odisse pens, omne tempus putidum’.
Overheard at the bank :-
Sarwar : ” So how much are the new 50p’s then? “
Pressure continues to mount on Sturgeon to follow Truss’s lead on tax.
For giggles. Scotland subsample of that:
3% Con. 3%. Three.
Did you say 3% ?
Aye, but mind it’s a subsample, so don’t take that literally! However, they’ve clearly taken a big hit here; looks like it might be much greater than for England.
Fingers crossed Yes is going to gain too as people, like my English left-wing neighbours, having been growing more sympathetic for years now, feel the balance has tipped for them. They’ve had enough.
They said to me today that Westminster is an ‘elected dictatorship and it’s scary’.
Wee need to wait, but I expect we might find the 2020 yes folks that took polls to coming on 55% will now settled on this like the 50% have.
…. and just for clarity … 3% ?
Average of the last 3 UK poll Scottish samples (People, Survation and Yougov). Still comes with all the usual caveats, but Con-Lab shift as per the rest of the UK.
Maybe some gains for Yes, but we really need some full Scots polls to gauge impact as the error above is high and they are not properly weighted to Scotland.
Again Truss and Kwarteng prevaricate and are refusing to release the OBR forecast they will receive next week until Nov 23rd. This will not go down well with “the market” and instead, the £ will find new lows and interest rates new highs.
I knew the most right wing of the Tory Party were not very bright but the lot in charge right now live in their own little world which we call cloud cuckoo land.
I said it before Alex – Kwarteng was an analyst, this is not cloud cuckoo but deliberate malice – He knew damned well OBR data was pivotal to stabilising markets, and knew precisely what would follow by delaying it.
I keep hearing Scott Joplin’s “The Entertainer”
At least one Tory MP agrees with you Bob.
Conservative MP Peter Aldous criticises mini-budget saying plan ‘seemed designed to provoke the markets’
Unfortunately Alex your link has been “disappeared” but found another source courtesy of your headline quote,, https://uk.news.yahoo.com/conservative-mp-peter-aldous-criticises-131800886.html
Strange, it was archived alright.
Indeed on revisit it does, my apologies…
I wonder if we can crowdfund a new publication?
“Where’s Numpty?” – Finding that elusive politician from the Westminster Government every time there’s a glut of questions.
The EU have just agreed to a windfall tax on the excess profits of energy companies that is expected to raise £140 billion.
UK isolated as EU agrees windfall tax on energy firms
The UK wants the energy companies to hang on to those excess profits and will borrow the money instead which we can all pay back later together with the interest.
You Yes Yet?
Hearing that the Tories hope to get people onside to fracking by offering them cash incentives for it in their backyard.
Certainly progress. Up to now, they’ve taken oil from someone else’s backyard, and ignored their protests.
By-election in Argyll. SNP close second. The transfer of votes is of interest.
Sadly just over 30% of the electorate got off their backsides to vote.
Alistair John Redman currently an independent usually a Tory but twice suspended from the Tories for Islamophobic comments which he denies
It does take a lot to be suspended from the Tories for bigotry but not much to be readmitted again when all’s quiet
When will people get it, there’s no such animal as an Independent politician, they’re mostly just sneaky wee Tories, like eh Labours Jackie Baillie pretending to be Labour for years because it’s a safer bet
There are two years until the next UK GE, and some of the fringe are complaining about Angus Robertson laughing about being the official opposition with the Tories down to 3 seats, but a birdie tells me that he is running interference, and this is the real secret plan:
1). There are SNP branches in England (London for instance), so exponentially grow the network until there are approximately 600 branches throughout the rest of the UK
2). Grow the rUK membership which should reach 150,000 by early 2024
3). Each rUK branch to hold an election for a local candidate
4). Go for broke in the GE, and if the SNP become the official government of the UK, then the following is their mandate:
a). Completely rewrite the Scotland Act so it gives no reserved powers whatsoever. Any changes would require acceptance by Holyrood, and the Scotland Act contain absolutely no use of the word “normally”. Pass that as an emergency bill with overnight Royal Assent.
b). Holyrood organises an actual referendum, but remember, it can hold a referendum as often and when it likes
c). Meanwhile the SNP government at Westminster gets rid of all the iniquitous Tory changes and returns the UK to a healthy economy and democracy – the rUK will after all be our neighbour then
d). And this has to be a part of the manifesto – as soon as Scotland has our Independence the SNP resigns at Westminster and recommends the Labour Party to take its place.
I recommend this plan to the House of Bute.
Apparently the plan is called “The Reverse Takeover”.
I get the impression Labour think ‘Scotland is coming home’, maybe they will get Skinner and Baddiel to change the words of their ‘Three Lions’ song for them.
I can understand people being fooled into voting Labour just to get the Tories out, I did it up until 1983, it did Scotland no good.
Lets be clear a vote for Labour is a vote for unionism and keeping Scotland and its resources under England’s control. Labour will do nothing for the people of Scotland, a quick history check will reveal that.
Lest we forget –
The SNP won their first ever election (excluding by-elections) ever under a Labour government.
The 2011 victory didn’t come from Labour, but primarily as a result of the collapse of the North British formerly Liberal & Democratic yellow flag waving party. Once they went orange book right wing capitalist and joined the Tories, it ‘killed them stone dead’ in Scotland. All their Scottish left of centre yellow flag wavers jumped ship to the actual Scottish Liberal Democrats; the SNP. The SNP don’t have a yellow logo for no reason. I am naturally a Scottish Lib Dem, hence vote SNP.
Labour’s decline was far longer in the making. They lost to the SNP progressively up to 2007, but only shaved a little more from them in 2011.
Many SNP voters kept tactically voting Labour to ‘stop the Tories’, but when Labour did a Lib Dem and got into bed with the Tories in Much Worse, sorry Better Together, they killed tactical support for them by SNP voters for Westminster ‘stone dead’. You cannot get a collapse on the scale of North British Labour’s in 2015 unless voters already didn’t like you as a party, but were just opting for you tactically until you did something they couldn’t forgive.
Now Scots have worked out that voting SNP has as much chance as stopping the Tories as voting Labour for Westminster, so they’ll keep doing that given that they truly prefer the SNP, and have so for over a decade now, as reflected in PR Holyrood elections, and the fact that 54% back independence over any form of devo (ex DK, from the SSAS).
I noticed a Nicola Sturgeon joke regarding the Ukraine referendum on ‘Have I got news for you’. The irony which obviously hadn’t dawned on them is Russia is forcing a vote on people who didn’t vote for one whereas England is stopping a vote when Scotland did vote for one. They are just different sides of the same coin.
The closest comparison is England’s annexation of N. Ireland in 1921. If England was trying that now, European countries would be supplying the Irish with weapons and training support while putting England under heavy sanctions.
But since that partitioning was an imperial relic of the 1920’s that Ireland had little choice but to accept at the time given how much damage England had caused it during its fight for freedom, we have the USA brokered United Nations peace deal that is the GFA as the next best thing.
Tick tock. The world will celebrate the fall of the Belfast wall just as it did the fall of the Berlin one. Partitioning only ever leads to division, for that is what its purpose is. It’s why empires do it; divide and conquer. Putin’s up to the same in the east of Ukraine; learned it from England.
Ireland won its freedom when its people told the British where to stick their divisive, hate-filled sectarianism, and green and orange united under a banner of white.
United Ireland campaign’s new recruits: ‘The past matters a lot less to young people’
The impact of the UK’s departure from the EU and the continuing tensions over the Northern Ireland protocol have reinforced the concept of a united Ireland for many.
For Peter Adair it was Brexit; for Andrew Clarke, it was the 2012 flag protests.
“It was the first spark of disillusionment, when I realised I didn’t necessarily identify with what was around me,” says Clarke.
From Protestant, unionist backgrounds in Belfast, the two history students – Clarke at Queen’s University Belfast, and Adair at the University of Oxford – support a united Ireland and are part of the civic pro-unity organisation Ireland’s Future.
At this time the Tory government, they seem to like the phrase new government, has less legitimacy than Putin. They are carrying out policies not in any manifesto and normally a new government needs to have been elected not just selected by a few cohorts.
If manifesto’s changes can just be made up on the hoof why do the SNP not just say the last general election was a vote for independence based on seats, it’s as democratically sound as the current Westminster PM’s position.
At 14.10 hours today, 1 October 2022, this can be found on the BBC News website’s Wales page:
Headline: ‘Welsh independence: Thousands march through Cardiff’
‘Thousands of people are taking part in a march and rally in Cardiff calling for Welsh independence.
‘The event is being run by All Under One Banner Cymru which held its first march in Cardiff in 2019.
‘On Friday, a Plaid Cymru-commissioned report claimed to “debunk” the sentiment that Wales was “too small and too poor to thrive as an independent nation”.
‘The last march in Wrexham in July attracted about 8,000 people.’
On the BBC News website’s Scotland page, on the equivalent AUOB march in Edinburgh today: NOTHING!
Will BBC Scotland fail to report this event, even if with a negative frame? I wonder how stark the contrast between BBC editorial policy in Scotland and Wales will be shown to be.
Scotland is the clear and present threat to them so nothing to see here, when Wales becomes an equal threat it’ll be the same
BBC, the Paul Daniels of news
Yeh!! “you’ll like this, …..not a lot”
Just so you don’t have to read the BBC:
As many as 10,000 people joined an All Under One Banner Cymru march for Welsh independence in the centre of Cardiff.
It was the first march since 2019 in the Welsh capital, which saw the first march for independence on May of that year.
Saturday’s march started at midday in Windsor Place and travelled in a 1.5 mile loop along Queen Street, St John Street, Working Street, The Hayes, Mill Lane, St Mary’s Street, High St, and Duke Street before returning to the starting point.
The line-up of speakers included actor Julian Lewis Jones who plays Boremund Baratheon in hit HBO series and Game Of Thrones prequel House Of The Dragon.
Other speakers included former Plaid Cymru leader Dafydd Wigley, actress and novelist Ffion Dafis, singer Eädyth Crawford and Irish comedian Tadhg Hickey.
You were correct – After 2 hours it still didn’t happen in Scotland so far as the Scotland Office and HMS James Cook is concerned.
– No reason in this case for him to personally report “off camera” armed only with his personal phone agitating objectors to the farce of the Tory leadership fiasco, despite the “contest” tag having been paraded by the BBC in Scotland relentlessly despite being as insignificant as a feature with Lugless Dross…
So no surprise really – James will get his knighthood for services to misleading Scots on behalf of the state, and Truss really is a state…
Pardon my odd musings on blunder-Truss, but this all seems a little off with Truss being paraded as such an obvious moron.
I’m in no doubt Truss is a balloon totally detached from reality and thoroughly dangerous, yet so was Johnson, Patel, etc., now obscured by the news over Truss, Kamikwasi and Tufton St….
It’s as if the slick Tory media protection afforded Johnson etc has been lifted to ensure her early demise, set-up to fail as it were with a few scores being settled along the way…🤔
Labour announce they will create a new state owned energy company and labour being as laboratory it’s not what you thought it would be. I wonder if Sarwar, challenging Nicola to support this ‘initiative’, knew what was actually on offer.
So, you think the hard right won the recent Swedish election yes? Because like the British press wanted that to be so like it does for every election in other countries?
Was headline news as initial results came in. But then silence when all the results were counted and, well, the incumbent centre left Social Democrats won by a country mile, increasing their share, as did the Greens. As usual under PR, some sort of coalition will be cobbled together which is moderate centre, representing the electorate as things should be.
In the UK, all other countries are ‘going right wing’ when the reality is it’s just pretty much the UK doing that.
Thanks for this. I too had heard – and was ‘depressed’ by – the BBC report on the success of the far right. Your post prompted me to find out more. Like your source, the link below accesses a fuller account and despite the concerning rise of the far right, all is not quite as the BBC sought to frame matters:
‘The Social Democratic Party received the most votes in the Swedish parliamentary election held on 11 September 2022. The party, in government since 2014, EVEN INCREASED ITS VOTE SHARE TO 30.3%, up two percentage points from the previous election in 2018. (my emphasis)
‘Yet the focus of attention in Sweden has been on the continued rise of the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats, a far-right party that has expanded its vote share from 5.7% in 2010, the year of its electoral breakthrough at the national level, to 20.5% in 2022. In just over a decade and only four electoral cycles since first entering parliament, the Sweden Democrats have gone from a marginal, ostracised party to the second largest party in Sweden and the largest party of the right bloc.
‘But it is the centre-right Moderates, now the third largest party, that will in all likelihood GET THE FIRST CHANCE TO FORM A GOVERNMENT.’
Yup, while they’re not a very nice party, the Sweden democrats are so far right they, erm, support Sweden being a member of the EU.
The reason they’ve managed to make some inroads is by becoming more moderate. If they’d continued to back swexit, they’d have got nowhere. Socially / economically, they are notably more moderate than UK parties who back brexit and no free movement. Even with that, 80% of Swedish folk just rejected them on a massive turnout. The Tories are more popular in Scotland.
So British media headlines just effectively tried to sell people the idea that the Tories won the 2021 election in Scotland. That’s how fat a lie ‘the far right have won in Sweden’ was.
A bit like RN in France then…ok, they were largely helped by LR offing themselves but still: REC, posing themselves as the new, purest torchbearer of the hard right got their asses handed back to them.
It’s only fair to say, by the way, that the Scottish Government, if asked by the media, would completely deny the existence of “The Reverse Takeover”, though I understand now it’s in the detailed planning stage, its new name is “Operation Reverse Takeover”.
And Godspeed to all who sail in her.
Are you sure it’s not
“Takeover, Mactakeback Face”
I like that one 🙂
This is a new one on me.
A scribe, ‘Gemma McSherry’, writes in the Guardian. that ‘the devolved nations’, have written to Kerching ! demanding an urgent meeting.
More Newspeak from the English Blahs.
Scotland is of course a ‘nation’; there’s nothing ‘devolved’ about us. Likewise The North of Ireland, or Wales are stand alone states. They’ve not been ‘devolved from anywhere.
From whom did we all become ‘devolved’?
Again the Brit MSM attempt to put us in a box, while England remains superior, definitely not ‘devolved’.
We are humoured, assured that the Union is a partnership of equals, while England somehow has the right of seniority.
All men (sic) are created equal, but some are more equal than others?
There’s more of them, you see, and their army, navy, and air force occupy their ‘devolved’ nations.
They are plundering Scotland’s wealth and vast resources, because we are powerless to stop them.
But not for much longer.
If the SC rules in favour of England, ‘de facto’ declaring Scotland to be a colony of England, and our resources and wealth England’s to loot and pillage, then all bets are off.
Colonisation is illegal, according to international law.
Ergo, the next GE will be a referendum on Independence.
When pro Independence parties prevail, the game’s up for the ‘devolved nation’ of England.
I can taste it.
We are on the brink of freedom.
The phrase ‘devolved nation’ doesn’t even make sense.
I have a notion that McSherry is Irish.
AS’Irish’ apparently as Uncle Tims like Graham Norton, Piers Morgan, or the late Terry Wogan
I like that Jack. Very apt.
The top 1% are getting a £6 billion tax rebate.
The top .01%, £400,000 cash back each.
Kwasi Kerching’s brown envelope job in the City guaranteed.
England will riot first.
The different agenda of BBC Wales and BBC Scotland shown up in stark contrast yet again…
– BBC Wales – “Wales Today” reporting on the Cardiff march and highlighting the joint letter from the devolved governments to the Chancer, plus an article on the webpage “Welsh independence: Thousands march through Cardiff”.
– BBC Scotland – The AUOB March in Edinburgh isn’t worth reporting but the UK article on “Enough is Enough” marches is…. 🙄
It would be more that Muriel Gray’s job, sorry, 2/5ths of a job, was worth if the BBC Stockade on Plantation Quay even hinted that the natives were restless.
Aye, there were just a few anyway, nobody would have noticed anyway 🤣 https://archive.ph/MSWud
Complaint about this off to BBC Scotland. No website coverage of two events in Scotland: one, the AUOB march in Edinburgh and second, the Enough is Enough rally at the Buchanan Street steps. I couldn’t get to Edinburgh so went to Buchanan Street. This was a very well attended rally attracting a crowd that filled the top of Buchanan Street from Donald Dewer’s statue right down to Bath Street. I was able to sign up to Socialists for Independence who had a big banner there.
Does the BBC not work at the weekend, I wonder.
Interestingly the Royal Mint has confirmed that Scotland is one of the four Home Nations:
“The reverse of the 50 pence features a design that originally appeared on the 1953 Coronation Crown. It was struck to commemorate Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation at Westminster Abbey, and includes the four quarters of the Royal Arms depicted within a shield. In between each shield is an emblem of the home nations; a rose, a thistle, a shamrock and a leek.”
Monarchs have their constitutional uses you know 🙂
Mind you, the next line is a little anachronistic:
“The Royal Mint has depicted Britain’s Royal Family on coins for over 1,100 years, documenting each monarch since Alfred the Great.”
It seems historically some cakes were burnt in Scotland after all. Probably at Bannockburn …
The ‘home’ nations?
Again, the whiff of imperial ‘Britain’.
All those ‘explorers’, ‘missionaries’, and ‘traders’, wandering the earth, planting the butcher’s apron on some foreign field that is for ever England, ‘civilising’ the natives, and crushing any resistance to the Great White Mother.
‘Home’ is retiring to Rose Cottage in Sevenoaks, and collecting butterflies…’home’ at last.
We are, were, and, if England had its way, always would be, as much as a colony here in Scotland as any of the other conquered nations in England’s glorious past.
They are plundering our natural resources, with no intention of treating us as an equal partner in their farcical union.
We are taking our country back out of the control of our belligerent neighbour, s’all.
The home nations are kind of like the home internationals in rugby where the 4 home nations competed in throwing oblong shaped balls around. Lo and behold, France were incorporated so it became 5 home nations. Then Italy, and oh, wait, that doesn’t work, we’d better call it the 6 Nations. And so it is.
‘… home internationals in rugby where the 4 home nations competed’:
This brings back a memorable moment on a BBC (?) panel show in 2014 in the run up to the referendum. A Scottish rugby ‘hero’ – Hastings by name – stated (in terms) that he could never vote for independence as it would deprive future generations of rugby playing Scots from competing for the ‘British Lions’.
My TV screen survived – but only just – as no one reminded this ill-informed British Nationalist of the ‘British and Irish Lions’!
Ah yes, Alfred the Great, King of Scots.
Ah .. but ‘the Royal Arms’ don’t feature my nation …
I’ve a sneaky feeling the Royal Mint wasn’t “Based in Llantrisant South Wales” for over 1,100 years, either 🙂
It’s all about “continuity”.
Continuity into a mythical historical past.
There be dragons!
YIR2, From Wiki:-
“The Royal Mint was founded under Alfred the Great, c. 886 AD. It operated within the Tower of London for several hundred years before moving to what is now called Royal Mint Court, where it remained until the 1960s. As Britain followed the rest of the world in decimalising its currency, the Mint moved from London to a new 38-acre (15 ha) plant in Llantrisant, Glamorgan, Wales, where it has remained since.
Since 2018 The Royal Mint has been evolving its business to help offset declining cash use. It has expanded into precious metals investment, historic coins, and luxury collectibles – which saw it deliver an operating profit of 12.7 million in 2020–2021.
In 2022 The Royal Mint announced that it was building a new plant in South Wales to recover precious metals from electronic waste. The first of this sustainably sourced gold is already being used in a new jewellery division – 886 by The Royal Mint – named in celebration of its symbolic founding date.”
Gold fillings next?
There be forked tongue dragons?
Dragons teeth are worth a bit in dungeons and dragons, and Smaug of “The Hobbit” was encrusted with the Dwarves jewel and gold horde.
We are of course entitled to 1/12th of the proceeds.
Llantrisant – ‘the hole with the mint’.
(c) All Rights Reserved
Under the bbc Europe banner https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63094415
Moving on from the Brit unionists.
Although we keeps raising the issue of bbc partiality it seems to me little is done to put pressure on the bbc in Scotland. The impartial public forums are loaded with unionists. The top dogs are the lapdogs.
Bbc won’t challenge such assertions as they would have to demonstrate how they are impartial in reporting the views of more than 50% who wish independence and they know they cannot do that.
Usual bbc and it’s Sunday Show. Put the SNP spokesperson on first then the Tory apologist thereafter. In fairness Shona Robison is good.
You know England’s utterly lost it when Micheal Gove is on your side.
Michael Gove says Liz Truss’s tax cut plans ‘not Conservative’
Michael Gove said Liz Truss’s programme of tax cuts was deeply concerning and “not Conservative”, and hinted he would not vote for them, in a major blow to the prime minister’s authority.
‘Michael Gove is on your side’, is a bit of a stretch, s_s.
He is an arch Tory, who would shut down Holyrood this afternoon without blinking.
He’s seen the polls. The game’s a bogey.
Like the brothel keepers in Italy as the Allies marched through, he is taking down his swastika emblem and hoisting the stars and stripes.
He is denial today, exclaiming on telly that he wasn’t one of the heartless cruel bastards who destroyed the lives of millions over the past 12 years.
But we all know that he was at the heart of a dozen cruel years when hundreds of thousands died, millions suffered, lost their jobs, worked on zero hours contracts, and public services and institutions were deliberately trashed by ultra right wing fascist zealots.
Johnson and now Truss are the result of diminishing returns.
They fed the public UKIP racist xenophobia, lied, and raided the public coffers, enriching themselves and their Oxbridge mates in the process.
Remember Priti Patel?
Up until a few weeks ago, they were still declaring that they had got ‘Brexit done’?
Scrapping Freedom of Movement was her big ticket item; Rwanda, May’s mobile posters urging illegals to go home?
I read somewhere that immigration has actually increased again..but 48% of incomers are from India and Pakistan.
I wonder how that would go down with the Red Wall ex Labour racists of the North of England?
I observed before; the Blue Tories want to lose the next UKGE.
They need to get out of Dodge before reality bites and the social economic and political disaster of Brexit is ultimately exposed.
Starmer is wedded to Brexit in the hope of winning back the North of England, and the middle class Middle Englanders to Blairism.
Polish plumbers replaced by Punjab plumbers?
Kuennsberg did not mention Brexit once when grilling Truss or Reeves. ‘Growth’ will solve everything?
Mention of Brexit is now banned on the telly, isn’t it?
Yet it is universally agreed that the UK economy has taken a 4% hit so far, with the N Irn protocol impasse probably about to spark a trade war with the EU, and the much vaunted US Trade Deal years away, if ever.
From where is the Blue and Red Tories planned growth coming?
Malaysian chickens and NZ frozen lamb?
England has lost the plot.
We leave them to it.
Och of course, but I guess you got my point.
It was too much of a gimme, s_s.
Of course I knew what you meant.
Irish unification would cost €4bn a year not €10bn – research finds
A united Ireland would cost the Republic €4 billion a year and would be affordable, according to new research.
The claim is made in a document released by Ireland’s Future, a civic society organisation campaigning for a united Ireland.
The document is called Shaping a New and United Ireland and includes contributions from academics who have already participated in previous meetings organised by Ireland’s Future.
Shaping a New and United Ireland will be launched at the Ireland’s Future event in the 3Arena in Dublin on Saturday.
The fiscal gap between taxes collected in the North and public spending in 2017/2018 was £9.2 billion (€10.5 billion).
The document posits that the true cost of subvention is much lower than that. It states that the North’s contribution to UK defence spending, debt servicing costs and international services would not be relevant in a united Ireland scenario. This would decrease the subvention by 25 per cent.
And just imagine the boost to the NI economy of not being a society intentionally divided by the British? One where everyone is equal without the need for UN peace treaties to protect a large section of society from British discrimination.
You will note that protestants in the Republic did not need a GFA to protect them from catholics and give them equal rights. Ask yourself why that is. Who is causing the division? Can’t be the Irish if it’s not happening in the Republic too.
Nope, the ‘sectarian division’ is a wholly British thing, fostered to keep England’s land grab partitioning of NI going to give some remnant semblance of British empire rather than just little England; a modest sized European country.
That’s before we get to NI being part of a country that really cares for it as it’s own. You can be sure Dublin would not betray the people of the North like England did to NI unionists over brexit.
Oh, and there’s all that before we talk single markets…
So if their costs are less than half, one wonders at the black hole that is Scotland’s economy… (apparently, that is)
OK, we all know tha Tories are bad – in fact, we and most other people now know that they’re really really bad. And they may well lose the next General Election. But how does knowing that help the cause of Independence? Starmer, apparently speaking for his Tory Lite party, has made it clear that there is no way that a Labour government will agree to Scottish independnce. Meanwhile, Nicola Surgeon has said that independence is not possible without Westminster agreement, while the more radical wing of the independence movement is putting forward utterly unrealistic ideas about UDI and a Convention of the Estates. So Paul, I’d really like to hear your opinion as to how we actually achieve independence in view of the fact that it seems to be the case that legal internationally recognised independence can only be achieved with Westminster’s consent but both the parties that run Westmister have made it clear that no such consent will ever be given regardless of what the Scottish people may say. It makes me very depressed.
I don’t recall NS saying that independence isn’t possible without Westminster’s agreement. But it certainly is better to have a negotiated settlement than bitter protracted disputes. It is also necessary for international support to exhaust all the constitutional avenues before taking radical action.
After that, fair enough, radical action may be inevitable.
Kennedy said, “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
“Nicola Surgeon has said that independence is not possible without Westminster agreement” was never said by Nicola Sturgeon as a standalone statement, and daveytee19 knows it fine well.
So far as I’m aware he’s not employed by HMS James Cook…
What she told the Scottish Parliament in announcing the 2023 referendum was: “For Scotland to become independent following a yes vote, legislation would have to be passed by the UK and Scottish Parliaments”. That means that to achieve independence we have to have the agreement of Westminster, does it not? So what I’m concerned about is where that leaves us if we vote Yes in a referendum or, failing that, a plebiscite election, and Westminster still digs its heels in as both the major party leaders there have said would happen. I find that a depressing thought and I’d be interested to know what Paul and others here think Scotland should do if that happens – as far as I’m aware, the SNP has been pretty silent on it.
“Nicola Surgeon has said that independence is not possible without Westminster agreement”
“For Scotland to become independent following a yes vote, legislation would have to be passed by the UK and Scottish Parliaments” ?
Is English your second language ?
I fear it must be yours. “independence is not possible without Westminster agreement” = “for Scotland to become independent….legislation would have to be passed by the UK and Scottish parliaments”. Thus no legislation by Westminster, no independence for Scotland inless of course, as you seem to suggest below, Scotland effectively declares UDI. I am quite sure that that is not something that Ms Sturgeon even contemplates. Seems pretty clear to me, but it takes all sorts.
You’re missing the nuance of the statement on legislation being passed in both parliaments – That is the legal format in which the Union would be dissolved formally in normal circumstances, all neat and tidy, but it does not rely on Westminster.
Should whichever muppet is in charge in HMG decide to play silly sods, it matters not, the Treaty on one side is dissolved – They’ll eventually have to ratify it on their side, but we would still have a dissolved the arrangement on ours.
My pruning shears are sharpened, oiled and ready, Capella.
Next thing you know, James Cook will be a soprano. (Lower case ‘s’).
“it seems to be the case that legal internationally recognised independence can only be achieved with Westminster’s consent
No that is not the case, of course, if Westminster was to say that it recognises Scotland as an Independent country then there would be no issues at all with international recognition as an Independent country.
However, if Westminster refuses to recognise Scotland as an Independent country then every other country in the world would have to make their own decision as to whether or not to agree that Scotland should be recognised as an Independent country.
The main thing that will influence their opinion is almost certainly how was majority support for Independence within Scotland determined and was the method used to determine there was a majority legal under International law.
Recognition by the EU or the United Nations as an Independent country would virtually guarantee International recognition no matter what the view of the UK was. The only thing to keep in mind is that if supporters of Independence want the EU or UN to recognise the then that can only be achieved by showing a democratic majority in support of Independence and even better that the UK is actively working against the democratic will of the people.
So, we do not need Westminster support but we will need International support. That looks very much to me like the path the SNP are taking.
I fear you may be being unduly optimistic. First, let’s say that a plebicsite election is held on the basis that the result would mean that Scotland should be an indepepndent state and that Westminster is morally bound to follow the result. Sadly, doing the right moral thing has never been Westminster’s strong point. Alternatively, let’s say that a plebiscite election is held on the basis that if Westminster does not accept the result Scotland will then proceed to UDI. I fear that in that case support for independence would likely melt away as people would be too frightened of the consequences – in 2014 they were frightened of being a legal independent state, so how would they react to the prospect of being an illegal one?
And if UDI was declared, what would the forces of authority do – the police, the military, the civil service, the justice system? Would an illegal Scottish currency have any value?
As for international recognition, countries would do what they believe to be in their best interests. As James Kelly recently pointed out in his blog, “The UK still carries enough clout around the world to deter other countries from doing something as drastic as giving recognition to a new state on its claimed territory”. The EU? Spain would veto it on the basis that Scotland’s independence was illegal. The USA? Unlikely – it likes to have the UK onside as a compliant military partner. The Commonwealth? Probably not.
Which is why I find myself agreeing with Ms Sturgeon’s statement that Scotland can only achieve independence with the agreement of Westminster. I’d love to know what plans (if any) the SNP has to deal with a situation where Scotland again votes Yes and Westminster again says No.
I don’t recall NS saying we need England’s permission, just that using the same approach as last time would be desirable to avoid disruptive legal challenges. What I do recall is her saying if somehow England blocks our right to a referendum, then we can simply vote for indy by means of an election.
Certainly, if it comes to it, we simply declare independence following a vote, e.g. such as through an election plebiscite. International law is quite clear on the right to self-determination. If people vote freely and fairly for independence, it doesn’t matter what the controlling state thinks; that’s fundamental to UN covenants.
This is why China won’t let people in Hong Kong have a wee vote on independence and just declare that illegal. That would be much easier than the whole heavy handed democratic repression thing with tear gas and batons.
So, we do UDI if it comes to and then England has to decide if it wants to send in troops. Simply declaring voting illegal just doesn’t work. If it did, Spain would not have needed to send federal riot police into Catalonia. The Spanish Supreme court saying a vote was illegal mattered the sum total of jack doo doo. If such an approach was effective, the Spanish government could have simply ignored the Catalan vote. But it couldn’t because if a majority had voted Yes on a strong turnout, that could not possibly be ignored. The world could have watched Catalans state, freely and fairly, they wanted independence. No amount of people screaming that putting we X’s on bits of paper into boxes and tallying things up was ‘illegal’ would change that. So in went the troops to disrupt the vote, stopping it being free and fair. The Catalan police were taken over by Madrid, the parliament closed, politicians arrested… All that when it seems independence isn’t actually the settled will of Catalans based on polling, although it was a tough call then.
Anyway, England would need to do the same to us if it wants to preventing us voting for indy, but it would be even worse looking as Catalonia isn’t actually a country, but Scotland is. So Spanish federal police were not invading another country, but part of Spain where half the population or so is actually Spanish. In our case, English troops / police would find themselves in someone else’s country. Half our population isn’t English, nor even British. 75% are Scots when they must pick a side, hence the 1997 result. Foreign English troops would need to beat up Scots, shut down our polling stations, close our parliament, arrest our democratically elected government… It would be the black and tans all over again, and look how that worked out.
Good luck with that.
Scotland will be independent if that is the settled will of Scots and nothing will stop it, even force of arms. Look what’s happening in Ukraine if you want to see how a people fight when an oppressor tries to take control of their country.
Sturgeon can’t stop it either. If she abandons the push, the movement will abandon her. No politician can stop the march of a nation. Look what’s happening in Iran and Russia. Is England prepared to do that? It must be if it wants to stop Scottish self-determination. There is no other way.
But we must do things by the book to show the world it is us that are the peaceful seekers of freedom and democracy and Brengland the oppressor. We must exhaust all the normal routes before going down more radical paths such as UDI. And above all, it must be the settled will of the people. If it is, the world will accept it because they have no little choice but to.
In the end, the only way England can stop us voting for independence is to stop us voting completely. Ultimately, the only type of vote that is ‘illegal’ is one that’s not free and fair. Like the shams just held in easten Ukraine. If Scots want to vote, they can organise this and ultimately, they can’t be stopped, not without guns and tanks.
well said. s_s.
Jeremy Corbyn, remember him? he stated if he became Prime Minister he would end the illegal British occupation of the Chagos islands and return sovereignty to the people of those islands
Labours Sir Kier Starmer said when questioned on the subject “ssssssssszzzzzzzzzfffffffffttttt” nothing, tumbleweed, why? Sir Kier Starmer is as *British nationalist* as the Tories
To Labour just like the Tories, Scotland is their acquisition, an asset, a territory, a colony, money!
Some folk have the odd notion that because they’re white they think they can’t possibly be slaves, I kinda think that’s some sort of inverted racism, forgetting that unions were created by the people to put a stop to the exploitation of the poor *class*, remember that word? *class*, even America doesn’t use that term anymore, in that country they at least changed it to *blue collar workers*
Would you tick a box on a census that asked to describe your *class* ?
I understand the *British* still use that term
In my discussion the other day with our English neighbor who has come around to indy, I pointed this issue out. She was quite hopeful about Starmer. I said I could not respect him unless he backed Scotland’s right to self-determination. I said I don’t have any problem with Starmer wishing to see the union continue; he’s entitled to that desire. However, he had no right to stop a referendum as that was a matter for Scots alone. She totally agreed and was disappointed about Starmer’s stance.
I will raise the British ethnic cleansing of the Chagos Islands and Starmer’s support for that next time.
Latest from the unionists is that if we go independent, we’ll be out of the EU with an inept government. Our economy will tank, the value of our currency will crash, and we’ll need to be bailed out by our central bank with the IMF intervening. We’ll be an internationally isolated, one party, flag waving, jingoistic nationalist state. We’ll need to suffer massive welfare cuts and the NHS will be at risk of privatisation.
Hmmm, wait, haud oan…
Wasn’t there talk of aliens too? Oh wait…I remember the Tory leadership election. Nuff said.
Geissler was at it when he ‘Yes butted’ Shona Robinson today.
If Yes had won in 2014 and we were tied to the pound, we’d be in a bigger mess than we are at the moment as a colony resting on the broad shoulders of England.
Shona put you right of course.
To be fair he reduced Sub Lieutenant (RN Failed) Andrew Bowie to a greasy spot on the forecourt of the Conference Hall in Birmingham.
Bowie really is yer classic Dim But Not So Nice Tory Boy.
The Sub Lieutenant will wait until Kerching comes to parliament before he answers any question put to him by Geissler but agrees with Gove that ‘the country’ (Geissler keeps on keeping on with ‘the country’ framing, doesn’t he?) is going down the lavvy pan.
Geissler closes by cheerily telling the mariner that he will be jumping on a ‘plane in two hours time to come to Birmingham, so he’ll see him later.
They’ll have a pint and a right good laugh later then?
Bowie comes across as incredibly bone headed.
Father, forgive him, for he knows not what he does.
The only trickle down during this mauling, was the damp sweat running down his back.
Dense is as kind as I can be when it comes to this man who has an 843 majority.
Funny how the Tories are quite happy for their government to do all their deals in private before announcing them without any debate or questions in the HOC but if anybody else were to do that the Tories would be the first lot squealing with rage
“Toast” yes, and he knows it.
His constituents were flabbergasted initially then furious over RN-Failed’s election on such a narrow win, they are not going to be lulled into such complacency on the next occasion by the Tory machine.
Going on his history I suggest Bowie will find some subterfuge to resign as MP – He can’t tinker with his Wikipedia page as previously with “advanced to Sub-Lt”, being unseated will be on record and his ego will not allow it.
You mean the same as England? how terrifying
Easy apparently to manage the cost of living crisis – either reduce consumption or get a better paid job – what f’ing planet does the Tory Party Chairman live on?
Or, apparently, a big bag of porridge for a pound.
A tory mp says he can produce meals for
30 english pence.
Think his initials are JC.
Jeremy Corbyn!!! Who would have guessed? Lol
70p a Kg bag from Aldi, soak overnight with some salt. Delicious.
Yes, we can all just get jobs as bankers. Simple as that.
It’s not like society needs nurses, teachers, cleaners, restaurant staff, social workers, bin collectors, university post-docs, police officers, factory workers, IT support staff…
Everyone can just be an investment banker and we’ll all be rich!
In the fantasy world of Alt-Indy apparently Nicola Sturgeon has lost her voice and indeed any ability to communicate normally, so she is using an ex-Glasgow Councillor – Mhairi Hunter – as a fully accurate and authoritative telepathic proxy.
You couldn’t make it up!
But some have, quoting a tweet from Hunter just the day after Sturgeon announced the “de facto referendum” of the next General Election should the UKSC deny Scotland’s right to self-determination as a people, deny the people of Scotland are a people at all, deny the rule of law is bedded at the heart of Democracy, and deny the United Nations … but I digress.
Now then, concentrate hard and tell me what I think about all of this sheer and utter desperate madness based on “I’m right I’m right I was right all along, the Daily Mail, that well-known impartial organ on Jockish Independence, says so”.
Wrong wrong wrong, actually I was thinking “I need a cuppa”.
Vocal escort for Rees-Mogg as he arrives at the Tory Conference, which looks as if it is being held in a prison.
Watching this clip , I think that Rees Mogg actually pished himself at one point during his Walk on the Wild side !
The Minister For Silly Walks.
It was quite deliberate of course.
Rees Mogg chose to endanger the safety of his police escort, grinning like a spoilt fee paying school boy, as the straggled hecklers were batted from his privileged path like flies at his banquet of vanities.
Rees Mogg epitomises the Fall of England.
The people of England pay for these politicians and vote them in to raise money to pay for the police to protect themselves from the people who voted them in
Why is anybody in England surprised that people in Scotland want no part of their union
Getting more in touch, and learning…
By the way, when did coppers have tattoos all over them? Is that new, or some pseudo copper thing?
Could they be private police…blue jackets strange (Tory support colour?) normal cops wear yellow…and these look like unkempt thugs. They do have private police down south…a law unto themselves it seems.
They do have private police down south
… and they have in office Prime Ministers dressing up as them and accompanying them on raids.
This is the start of pushback from the proles.
They have also appointed a new Health Minister via a peerage same as the new Trade minister. The new m’lord Health Minister has very close links to a private diagnostics company.
The HoL is so handy for things like this is it not?
Disgusting and in full open view. Anyone would think they have no shame.
Fake police might seem a clever stunt, except they had no right to manhandle protesters that might have genuinely thought, at first appearance, they were police.
Impersonating a police officer is of course illegal. Might be a case here.
Have i missed something? What /where / when were these face police at ?
Since when did Reece Mogg become Royalty? Watch the video and ask yourself ‘who is dressed and behaving like a police officer should?’.
I only see a couple of officers at the back wearing what looks like standard West Midlands police uniforms which match those of the officers generally milling around that Mogg and co pass by. These two also behave like actual trained police officers, as do those the group passes. They walk coolly and calmly a short distance behind just observing and not looking threatening – just ready to act if trouble did occur.
The rest – notably the guys in blue – are wearing assorted improper uniforms like fancy dress and are not behaving like police, but walk like heavies trying to act a part. Arms swinging, chests out, acting hard, looking around like they see the FBI do in the movies. With, erm, high viz shirts open, sleeves rolled up or improperly worn covering radios… One keeps putting his arm protectively around Mogg for no obvious reason. That’s doing something like they’ve seen a bodyguard from the movies do after someone has taken shots at the person being protected.
About 10 seconds in you can see a real police woman attempt to assist thinking something is happening, then looks a bit puzzled and stops.
This looks to me like Mogg dressed some heavies up to attract some attention. This is not illegal, only actively impersonating an officer is. It’s a bit of a grey area however as he clearly wants people to think they are police.
Of course real police would see this and even if he didn’t have some assigned to him, a couple would follow to make sure nothing got out of hand and no actual impersonation did occur. He might have even hired some lefties to protest too.
Anyway, if I’m wrong, I’m glad Scotland’s police don’t dress and act like that.
The guys in blue are liaison officers, the rest have obviously been drafted in from other areas to provide cover for the towrags party conference and not leave the local force short staffed.
Because obviously it requires more officers to protect the towrags from the public, than to protect the public from the towrags.
That will be why there are several different versions of police uniform to be seen.
I did notice that it was a bit of an error marching him through the flower garden.
Or perhaps pay back, dragging him in the saville row suit and shoes through the jaggy muddy bits.
Could be, but they look very unprofessional in appearance and approach to the job. I’ve never seen Scots officers like that. Glad we have proper professional police in Scotland that don’t look like hired heavies in fancy dress.
I thought they looked very dodgy and unprofessional. Now I understand why.
Even HMIC admitted that, in reality, FIT teams were always far more interested in surveillance than they were in ‘dialogue’.
Since the public order manual was updated in 2010, protesters have seen three teams of officers at marches and demonstrations: Evidence Gathering Teams (EGTs), who are deployed with cameras; FIT spotters, who collect detailed “intelligence” based on observation; and PLOs, who took on the responsibility for obtaining information through dialogue. All this was fed back to Bronze and Silver Commanders.
The police have always insisted that PLOs are not used primarily for data gathering. However, there are numerous reasons why protesters have been unable to believe this…
So it seems they are a type of heavy, and it’s more scary than I thought.
The AUOB Cymru independence March yesterday in Caerdydd/Cardiff has disappeared from the Observer web site.
The AUOB Scotland independence march yesterday never figured.
You almost think we are in a country where free speech may be tolerated providing it confers with the Brit nationalists view of the world.
Of course it’s a free count—
Unhand me, you, you goon! Let me go!
Just listened on the radio to ebc ”moneybox’
Subject was energy in Wales.
Two local hydro schemes were the subject, one gave their cost, 8p/kWhr to members.
The interesting thing was the cap cost in Wales, higher than anywhere else in englandland.
Reason given was that they are so far away from the grid. A lady pointed to the 160 wind turbines a couple of miles offshore, they produce a maximun of 320MW when the wind blows. More than enough for the whole region being discussed.
Fuel poverty was the problem in the area, wages stagnating, costs rising, benefits might be fixed.
The ebc asked Ofgen for the costs for all regions, data refused as it’s secret until next week. tory conference perhaps.
The ;ady being interviewed did make the point that benefits are fixed all round the uk but living costs aren’t.
If there’s a London Allowance, why isn’t there a remote allowance?
Wales is the fifth largest exporter of electricity in the world.
And don’t just take my word for it:
Wales is an energy colony – we’re poor because our dividend is drained out
14 Apr 2019 5 minute read
I agree that there should be some way in which remote consumers are subsidised instead of being penalised, but have no idea how it could be readily done for power provision.
Whenever someone refers to “the grid” it is ever vaguely elsewhere, somewhere in middle england, the spine of a system which contributes to everywhere else, a concept encouraged by politicians since energy privatisation, but one completely at odds with today’s realities.
Energy flow from Scotland and Wales TO England is ENORMOUS, yet it is not part of “the grid” ?
Consumers living within sight of a wind generator being charged greater cost on a notion it goes to “the grid” and comes back is utterly preposterous.
HMG keep trying to bury the issue, but the differential charging model of 30 odd years ago no longer fits today’s reality – The original model has become inverted yet the same differentials prevail ?
Were that 1990s model of generation and consumption reformulated, it would result in Welsh consumers paying less than middle England, it would be fair but political suicide in England.
Even were power charged at a flat rate, it would be a benefit to remote consumers rather than as at present, a penalty, but again political suicide in England.
Despite Romania’s vast sprawling energy network, energy is charged at rates varying only on annual consumption no matter where you are, and with none of the UK absurd “standing charges”.
How long does it take for electricity to travel 400 miles. I know it’s probably no longer than say 50 miles, does anybody know.
An electric current in a good conductor like copper travels close to the speed of light.
Aye but it’s Welsh wires, I believe they’re just as bad as Scottish wires
Thanks Alex, as I understand it, when connection charges were first introduced, the further you were from the main production areas the higher the connection charges, now the excuse is that the further you are from the main user centres the higher the charge, is this correct.
When the Hydro Board in Scotland was formed it took on various smaller area generators.
The man Tom Johnston had the connection charges to extend the local grid as the same charge for every new supply, no matter how long the connection, now you pay by the metre.
The Daily charge is a modern interpretation of ‘connection’, a yearly Subscription of £300 to get a supply and meters.
The distance from the ‘grid’ of the power station was part of the determination of which stations ran, now it is decided by auctions during the day, you bid to run by giving a MWhr cost, lowest cost should win but security of the supply is also considered. The Wind, Solar and Hydro should win but their reliability is factored in, nuclears at present form the base load, all avaiable stations run 24 hours, the gas turbines burning natural gas are the main providers.
You are correct about the ‘Load’centres, the further you are from London the more you pay even although they don’t have enough local generation. As I undestand things the load centres are London, Manchester and Birmingham. Scottish power has a grid control in Cathcart that is run from the national grid control, yes englandland, they consume most.
The system is madness.
Does Norway,Belgium,France etc have to pay to supply electricity to England ?
I only know that Norway pays less than Scottish suppliers for a longer transmission line.
Thinking France is on the lowest rate as they are Close to the load centre of London.
Bit of research I will try to update.
I don’t really know without doing some research, it is a fact however that the futher electricity has to travel through a wire to get to where it will be used then the greater will be the losses in the line.
Electricity flowing through a wire generates heat which is lost to the surroundings so is no longer available to the end user. So it would have seemed obvious back in the day that the closer you built the power plants to the main population centre than the lower the electrical losses due to transmission.
For the UK the total losses average around 8% as can be seen on this chart.
There is lots of very useful data on electricity production around the world that is from the International Energy Authority statistics at the following link.
You need to look at these tweets to see how obvious it is that one of the tactics that the right wing cheer leaders use is to attempt to scare off ordinary voters from becoming involved.
The “left” they talk of are just ordinary working people who are being screwed over by the right wing Tory party currently in power.
This is nothing more than an attempt to attack legal and civil demonstrations against government policy simply for disagreeing with it.
They fear criticism and exposure for what they really are and that’s why we should keep on doing what we are doing and expose their lies and cruelty to everyone who is not one of them. They fear us in Scotland, especially because once we are free then the people of England’s eyes will be opened to what true democracy looks like.
We should expect them to fight us tooth and nail to hang on to what they believe to a man and woman is “rightfully” theirs.
“swept from the streets” like litter. Goebbels level of imagery there. Sinister.
So Truss has U-turned already and the 45p rate of tax will not now be scrapped. Even BBC radio Scotland are describing the u turn as “humilating”.
Truss might be on her way out the door sooner rather than later, this is just getting ridiculous now and there will be much noise about having a General Election sooner rather than later as well.
I’m sure that Sally and Glenn will invite Dross on to Distorting Scotland to ‘humiliate’ him and his evil death delivering Brit Party.
Geissler’s down there hob nobbing with Sub Lieutenat (RN Failed) Bowie.
Is humble pie on the canteen menu?
Och lol. Living up to her French moniker.
‘La girouette de fer!’
I’m sure that Dross and gentleman farmer Tent lease Blister Union Jack will be doing the rounds of the Brit TV studios this morning demanding that the SNP do not cut the Higher Rate tax to the ‘most well-off’ because it would be a ‘distraction’ to Quasi Kerching’s ! ‘growth plan’.
He’s still going to ‘reform’ the pensions and benefit system, cut pensions, disability payments, and UCS by tens of billions.
He’s still going to borrow £180 billion to pay energy companies bloated energy prices, in order to ‘cap’ the average household bill to £208 a month.
We, the mugs will of course have to pay back Kerching’s ! credit card debt eventually.
He’s done what his mates wanted him to do. Crash the economy so that they could make tens of millions shorting the pound. Bankers get their bonuses charging back street money lender rates for credit cards and mortgages.
Kerching ! by name, Kerching ! by nature.
Inflation, cuts to pensions, and mortgages that the money lenders could have onlt dreamt of a few short weeks ago.
Brexit is collapsing, the US have taken to laugh out loud in the Brits face, and Kerching’s ‘growth plan’, the platform of which was to cut taxes to encourage rich folk to come to Britland and somehow ‘grow’ something or other, because of the low income taxes, seems to have been a mere distraction?
Come on, Lamont, Mundell, Bowie, ‘Pasta shapes’ Duguid, 4 jobs Dross, and Bowman Union Jack, get on the telly and explain yourselves.
Liars cheats and jackals.
Nailed it Jack, thanks for the laughs 🙂
Now we know why the Minister For Silly Walks, Lord Snooty Mogg was chortling to himself as he swaggered through the baying mob yesterday.
When the True Blues of Sutton Coldfield and Newton Mearns get hit in the pocket, they won’t be chortling, will they?
Carjack Lawson to take over as caretaker ‘leader’ of the Northern Colony Branch Office while the Jock Blue Brits have a 12 wee leadership campaign?
Surely this is a resigning matter for the linesman?
Why not? It beats actually serving the people who inexplicably voted for Brexit Britain.
It’s the Blue Tory way. Fiddle (with each other on occasion?) while London burns.
This must be the sturdiest camel in the universe. When will the last straw that breaks its ‘growth plan’ back land?
England will riot come early winter.
On TV this morning, Kerching ! referred to his ‘fiscal event’ as a ‘mini-budget’.
No it wasn’t. Ask the OBR.
“to cut taxes to encourage rich folk to come to Britland and somehow ‘grow’ something or other,”
I read somewhere they were growing pies…
Average of Scots subsamples of the last 4 polls where that’s availble (People, Yougov, Survation, Opinium)
52.9% SNP + Grn
I tried to take sample from the 6 recent big polls, but one didn’t have Scottish CBs, so ignored it. The other five:
Lab: 3 (Edin Sth, Kirkcaldy & Cowd, East Loth.)
Average of 4 Scots subsamples after #minibudgetgate with changes on 5 previous to that:
I think we can be confident Tories have take a hit to Labour. Lib dems maybe down too, possibly due to some tactical to Labour.
Some possible SNP/Green gains, but the sum total of zip evidence for any movement from these voters ‘home to Labour’ as you’d expect when 52% are now settled on indy over any form of devo / direct rule.
I find funny that Kwarteng is trying to spin that as them removing unneeded distractions and not as an u-turn but which growth package? The only announcements I remember are removing the cap on bonuses, a woolly energy bill capping and tax cuts
Tories surge forward following their surge backwards following their *listening to the people* u-turn
Britains media retake control after applying pressure on the PM, tune in to Sky news and BBC opinion channels for all the latest propaganda as it happens
What should the government do now? call the news channels and we’ll make it happen………for you!
If folk in *the country* haven’t noticed even yet that they don’t have an actual government, they have an amateur market media driven policy unit, surely they’re getting wind of it by now
We might as well be governed by the viewers and participants of Gogglebox
Oops wait, we are
Read that HS2 is to be completed at whatever cost.
Seems that some distractions are necessary to cover up the cuts, on ferrari the chancer did a little slip that cuts in social services were necessary to fund the tax cut from 20p to 19p.
Wher can we invest on the Kerching ! being ‘shorted’ before the end of Day One of the Blue Tory Beano?
Will he last the day?
Paul Daniels to the Chancer
You’re going to like this, Not a lot.
I know Daniels is dead, thinking like you Kwasi is on a shakey nail.
Try the bookies, they’ll have a the odds on the deadly duo being there by the year’s end.
That ”attention seeker ” , Nicola Sturgeon , must be furious that Liz and Kwasi took the limelight away from her with their attention grabbing tax cuts !
Pity she ”just ignored” them , eh !
DRoss was urging her to get with the programme and copy the Tory tax cuts .
DRoss , The Man Who Would be King !
I notice that Sturgeon woman even had the cheek to shake hands and then a wee blether with King Charles in Dunfermline today.
Just who does this woman think she is doing all this celebrity stuff while the Conservative Conference is on. 🙂
DRoss has just given his speech at the Tory conference. On Kerching he said that:
“I think he has made the right decision. The best parts of the government’s growth plans remain and the area that caused the most concern has gone.”
I’m having a great day watching them all backtrack, what a joke of a government haha
Some PR company earning their fees I’m hearing and seeing, they are all on brief.
It’s a distraction.
Pity the distraction is so big in the news and continues to live as a huge mistake.
They now need a ”distraction” for the distraction !
If they do any more U-turns it’ll be a doughnut !
What’s happening with the ferries? We demand to know.
The tories are complaining they weren’t built in Polands subsidised shipbuilding industry denying polish workers work in Poland by not closing Scottish yards and instead of ensuring Scottish workers could travel to Poland to build ships……for Scotland……
I may have got mixed up……
This u-turn is also very damaging to the Scottish unionists, A week ago they were demanding that the Scottish government scrap the 45p rate of tax to keep Scotland in line with the rUK. The right wing rags and the BBC were full of stories about Scotland being out of step and the highest taxed country in the world you would have thought.
All change! Dross now says Kerching had dropped the 45p rate but kept the best bits.
None of them have any credibility whatsoever now, no wonder even the BBC are describing this as a “humiliation”.
Kwasi Kerching has kept the best bits !
That’s like saying after a circumcision they kept the foreskin !
The fairies in Birmingham say miss truss is dead pm walking.
Even lord pickles has an interview saying she’d be stupid to do a u-turn.
The others are just reading out the briefing notes they got.
They knew it would do nothing for growth, but would just mean less available for spending and more inequality.
They just wanted to cut their own tax bills.
Keeping tax low for the rich does not boost economy
Major reforms reducing taxes on the rich lead to higher income inequality but do not have any significant effect on economic growth or unemployment, according to new research by LSE and King’s College London.
Researchers say governments seeking to restore public finances following the COVID-19 crisis should therefore not be concerned about the economic consequences of higher taxes on the rich.
The paper, published by LSE’s International Inequalities Institute, uses data from 18 OECD countries, including the UK and the US, over the last five decades. The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich, by David Hope and Julian Limberg, shows that the last 50 years were a period of falling taxes on the rich in the advanced economies. Major tax cuts were spread across countries and throughout the observation period but were particularly clustered in the late 1980s.
It states: “Our results show that…major tax cuts for the rich increase the top 1% share of pre-tax national income in the years following the reform. The magnitude of the effect is sizeable; on average, each major reform leads to a rise in top 1% share of pre-tax national income of 0.8 percentage points. The results also show that economic performance, as measured by real GDP per capita and the unemployment rate, is not significantly affected by major tax cuts for the rich. The estimated effects for these variables are statistically indistinguishable from zero.”
Even the Herald has been ferried off its linkspans. 6 out of 7 top spots on its pages, with Covid inquiry chair steps down the only other:
1. ‘Morally indefensible’: Going without food or heating now ‘endemic’ in Scotland
2. Redundancy payments for Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and other ministers revealed
3. Warning over ‘devasting cuts’ after Kwarteng forced into ‘humiliating’ tax cut U-turn
4. Kwasi Kwarteng scraps tax cut for high earners amid Tory revolt
6. Ross praises Kwarteng tax cut u-turn days after calling on SNP to copy ‘bold’ plan
7. UK Government’s tax rate U-turn shows ‘utter ineptitude’, says Sturgeon
Ross and Kwarteng really are looking totally gormless, they have lost any gorms they ever might have, and in fact gorms avoid them at all costs. No decent gorm would want to be associated with them.
One of the richest countries in the world with crisis level poverty – for some.
Joseph Rowntree Foundation report shows bleak picture of Scottish poverty
I found it a deeply disturbing article from the National in that again JRF’s praise of what SG had achieved and comparisons is again omitted.
For sure we have to do better on poverty, but with Westminster purse strings being increasingly tightened and Cruella Truss’s policies being evidently unhinged, I don’t expect a u-turn until the riots start…
Agreed. Still, it’s worth pointing out the inequality which we can do nothing about – except leave asap.
David Cameron’s vision for the Beg Society, the ‘Third Sector’, charity for millions in one of the world’s wealthiest economies.
BBC Brexit had tips on Friday on how to get more money to pay for food, energy and the mortgage.
Go to car boot sales and search for bargains.
Or better still book a spot and bring your own stock, like your chairs, pots and pans, clothes, and flog them to make extra cash.
I like to think that they cancelled the follow up ‘money saving’ advice for those described by Douglas Fraser BBC Jockland’s business editor, as ‘the least well off’, that’s dirt poor to thee and me.
I picture a roving reporter, bleating on in that childish Jackanory Thames Estuary patronising accent . OB at a landfill site in say, somewhere Oop North, like, Bradford, interviewing the site manager, with raggedy arsed children, and women scaling the tip in the background collecting scrap metal, table legs for fuel, and discarded filthy clothing cast offs.
Beaming like an automaton, the Beeb puppet agrees with the rubbish tip boss, that Where there’s muck, there’s brass’, eeh ba gum, for those desperate enough to scrabble through the sh!t to find it.
Ross will cut pensions, sickness benefits, and UCS. He will cut NHS and education spending, charge to go to Uni, be ok with a two week wait to see your GP, and introduce toll charges, to name but a few right wing ‘growth’ plans.
He will starve his fellow Scots so that his English masters don’t tax the Oil Barons sucking the bloody stuff out of Scottish waters.
Red Nose Day should be fun.
I vote that we drive these spawn of the devil from our land once and for all.
What say the priests, ministers, and Rabbis?
Hello darkness, my old friend.
The sound of silence. Thotso.
You’re on fire today Jack. That wee break has sure recharged the batteries. 🙂
I blame the drizzle today, Capella. I was going to stain the back garden fence, looking forward to the sanity restoring therapy of gentle brush strokes in the cool autumn breeze.
But no. The Creator had other ideas; thus, I am at a loose end.
The sheer madness of all of this, and the bone headed soft treatment given to numpties like Dross Jack and the Lone Gunman Murray by the MSM, especially BBC Jockland, beggars belief.
MY income is slowly but surely being eroded by these fascists, and nobody in the North Brit Pack give a tuppeny toss.
We need to begin the Escape sooner than autumn ’23, I fear.
I listened to Kerching’s ! speech.
More on the next thread.
Bolognese and pasta ready now. A plus.
An interesting observation from a guest on a Byline Times show I forgot to comment, it seems what Kwarteng graduated in Economic history.. I can’t recall the jibe made but it was along the lines of “Chancellor knows all about medieval economics but not the present…”
***Don’t look there, look here *** as the media save the Tories *AGAIN*
Kerching and all his pals made fortunes shorting the £, success, job done
Notice how the media are making it all about the people being saved from the injustice of all the rich folks tax being put back to where it was in the first place instead of what the Tories actually did which was to make humungous amounts of money by market manipulation
The media know they did it but they’re not reporting that part
They should have a hashtag #mediasavetories
What we suspected long ago.
Mainstream UK press has become ‘extremist’ in its politics, academic says
I think the media have much less influence on the people of Scotland because the population here is better educated and more politically aware of the charlatans since the Labour party were found out to be drones for the Tories
The only people in this country who *want* to believe the media are the defenders of the union, because it’s their only hope of retaining it
True. But there is that merry-go-round between the newspapers and the broadcast media. The hacks in the Telegraph & Co produce the copy from some Tory think-tank or polling company which is then amplified by the BBC and STV which is then turned into DRoss’ or Sarwar’s FMQs which is then reported on by the …media…
Older people especially get their disinformation from the BBC.
Geissler sits at a table buckling under the weight of a spread of English owned Dead Tree Scrolls every Sunday, dipping in to a SNP BAD Independence not allowed piece time permitting, following his ‘Yes But’ vainglorious attempt to eviscerate his SNP guest. Yes but, the ferries, A&E targets, education standards, high taxes, the disgraced Derek McKay, the bird droppings, the …et cetera, et cetera…
The readership of the Hootsman must number in the low thousands now.
But as the Brit Jock media pick up on the latest Unionist thread, lies spread across Scotland, presented as truth by Martin, and the gang.
It is worse than N Korea, China, or the Findo Gask British Thunderer.
Well, we are laughing at you now, but not for much longer.
BBC scottisland radio are all over the Labour Party. They will save us all.
They need our oil and gas. They need our agriculture and fisheries. They need our wind, tidal and hydro energy……
They need it for Engerland was the part they missed.
Scotland will be stripped bare by the Brit nationalists.
And Gary, and Glenn, and Sally, and Douglas, and Andrew, and Lisa, and Kirsty, Kirsten, and Bernard and John, and Colin, and the Scotia Nostra Fourth Estate Fifth Column Dead Tree Scrolls will be to the forefront , selling their fellow Scots down the river, promoting continued colony status, aware that Scotland is being ravaged and pillaged by their English and US Media barons’ paymasters.
Dross snf |Hoy feature in the Hootsman today repeating verbatim the drivel Kerching ! was mumbling on BBC Brext TV this morning.
They have listened, and the growyh package goes ahead minus the tax rebate for the Filthy Rich.
So let every household in Blue Tory held Scottish seats be informed; Diuglas Ross will cut your state pensions, double you mortage payments, send your credit card interest rates into gangster back street money lending rates, and cut spending on the NHS, Education, and public services, to grow England’s economy.
Peole will die because of the Blue Tories austerity II.
But bankers will get richer, and renergy companies keep their fat bloated not so ‘Free Market’ profits.
It’s all to do with the war in Ukraine according to Dross, the man with 4 jobs, and no accountability.
He is fronting a Rent To Buy Co-ownership Wheeze at the Blue Tory Beano today.
In England of course.
Douglas Moray, as his previous leader called him, must go.
They take our oil. gas, forestry, fish, renewables, and sell them on the open market, and pocket the money in England.
There’s a name for that.
Come on, Glenn, sell this to us Jocks.
Duguid, Lamont, Mundel, Ross, Bowie and Jack will convince their pensioners and disabled that cutting their income will make them ‘grow’?
I’m beyond even listening to these idiots any more.
We are on the brink.
The more the British media don’t report on what’s actually happening the more people will wonder why they don’t
They’re digging their own graves in public view now
BBC reporting on a crowd in a city today.
Someone shaking hands making the bbc commentator ecstatic. Cringeworthy
No it wasn’t the AUOB march.
I’m listening to the BBC gushing over the visit of two people who drove a naive young woman to a breakdown in mental health. I am disgusted by the crowd bowing and curtseying to them.
The reporter said that Nicola Sturgeon was greeted with boos and laughter from the crowd.
Was the crowd bussed inor surely to goodness Dunfermline is not home to such a large gathering of Monarchists.
I also heard that crowds of schoolchildren were there watching. Did their parents all give permission for this?
The whole visit is nauseating.
The adulterer and self-proclaimed ”Defender of Faiths ” is there with his former mistress and fellow adulteress , now wife , to set an example to the Little People .
Don’t do as I do …. !
From the Herald: “Liz Truss to stand by Kwasi Kwarteng despite humiliating tax cuts U-turn”
Hahahahahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahahahaha ha ha ha … ha
He is so gone, and she won’t be long behind. The gorms have deserted them the pair of them are the most gormless in the whole history of the Disunited Kingdom, even including Ted Heath.
Just watched the Martin Lewis interview of philp, th e treasury No2.
One subject was the treasury claim that someone on £30,000 year could save £12700 this year if they purchase a house with the stampduty cut plus the other help.
Lewis said that to get that level of stamp duty relief the person would have purchased a home at £540,000 and their payments on the lowest mortgage would be £28,000 a year.
These Londoners can live on nothing it appears.
£2000 to cover eating, heating, travel, insurances, maintenance, tv tax, you get the idea.
Propaganda is excellent, knighthood for the author.
Isn’t it ironic that in Scotland the British nationalists right to *Boo* is protected by FM Nicola Sturgeon and her government but in England under King Charles preferred government the right to protest or *Boo* is not protected
I’m quite sure most of the good people of Dunfermline were not involved in the Booing of Scotlands FM and it was indeed the work of the usual loud mouthed minority that we see on independence marches and the like
Still, the BBC will be more than content to show that clip as often as possible while ignoring the news of many thousands who turned out to support Scotlands right to choose, and of course the wishes of the majority of Scotlands voters, or the Rt Hon Nicola Sturgeon FM of Scotland would be a different person entirely, and someone that those people voted for
But they didn’t did they, because they are in the minority, it’s just simple sums
We can all do our bit to help the BBC and British media learn to count
Very suspicious as to whether BBC sound mixer amped up the sound of boos for Sturgeon today either that there was an Orange Ludge day out to Dunfermline today. Dunfermline has a Snp Mp and Msp after all so not really a hive of Unionism. Why the heck does Cherlie wear a kilt in Scotland it makes him look ridiculous.
STV Video of DRoss U-turning at the Tory conference and on “keeping all the best bits” LOL
Indeed, Dross is not the only one hung out to dry on this completely manufactured Tory disaster, it goes all the way down past Jackshitt, Turdo and Lamont etc right down to Campbell’s ludicrous reporting on behalf of HMS James Cook theatrically “encouraging SG to comply with a policy which backfired big time.
I’m in no doubt whatever Kamikwasi and his associates made a bundle out of crashing the pound, but whatever happened to that outlawed insider trading I wonder ?
Yep, the damage has already been done and many of Kamikwasi’s friends have greatly increased their riches. Nothing to see here…
A comment online that made me think of The Alan Price Set.
The big attraction everywhere will be Liz Truss and her dancing bear
Yeah, Liz Truss and the Amazing Dancing Bear.
D.Ross, a man with no policy just dances to the leaders tune, it doesn’t matter what the tune or who the leader is, he will dance to it.
The city are forecasting that the headline inflation for the last month will
be 4% as the energy help will be included in the inflation calculation.
So the triple lock will be honoured.
Although basics inflation is runn ing at 12%+, benefits will be raised by 4% from April.
As usual, it’s the fine print used by any tory that counts.
IIRC Gideon “Cokehead” Osborne added prostitution and drug dealing to the GDP figures which gave them an enormous boost. Creative accounting is their speciality – just look at GERS.
That would require some creative accounting as even including the £67 per month reduction the energy increase is still about 62% compared to last year. Are they loading the whole £400 onto one month to make the figure appear lower, it would be the Tory way.
Yes the torygraph say they’ll put it all in the one month, September, the month used to do the calculation even although you don’t get it until the October bill.
The left hand giveth and the DWP take it away.
That would appear to be why Philp wouldn’t comment on the triple lock on the media this morning.
They’re quoting a full pension rise of £379 for the year ahead and not the £1000+ the rate of inflation would be.
Feck me I thought you were joking. This will be another U-turn and the burn from this fiddling of the books will scorch the lot of them.
The BBC are very choosy about events they report on. This weekend they completely missed the AUOB march in Edinburgh and the Enough is Enough demonstration in Glasgow. I don’t know if they reported on them on radio or tv but they certainly did not report them on their BBC Scotland news website.
The reporting on the London Marathon was wall to wall on TV and on the website. The reporting on the Great Scottish Run was less obvious. Again I don’t know if there were any reports on radio or tv. There was no mention of the BBC Scotland news website. I had to go into the Sport section and in there had to go to Athletics. There was a report on the Great Scottish Run – an event which took place over Saturday and Sunday and involved literally thousands of participants not to mention spectators. The report was 7 sentences long and was illustrated by two photographs taken from the twitter account of the Great Scottish Run. The sentences looked to be lifted from a press handout giving the results of the 10k and the half marathon. Nothing else. And they have the nerve to insiste we pay a license fee for being ignored. Do all the BBC reporters all take the weekend off. Oh, sorry. They must all have been sent to Dunfermline with all available cameras.
KawiKwasi speech is supposed to start at 16:00. Live stream on youtube here apparently (it’s the Sun).
Helluva time for an eclipse…
This is the support act for his speech.
Dances with Donkeys Dross says “I’ve been very clear” and everyone with a brain cell laughed
I’ve heard enough already. There’s just so much lying I can tolerate.
Me too, just tuned out from listening to complete garbage.
There was a letter sent today from Ofgem raising concern over gas shortages this winter. There will be another report later this week from National Grid which is unlikely to contain good news on its views on Electricity supply over winter.
Click to access P448%20Urgency%20Decision%20Letter.pdf
Aye, there is nothing that says ‘We, the English, are a cowardly, pathetic, weak nation that are too terrified to stand on our own too feet’ more than ‘No Section 30!’.
Liz Truss: Independence referendum shouldn’t happen even if Supreme Court deems it legal
I’d be so humiliated if I was English. 10 times the size of us, but not an ounce of bravery and self-respect. No wonder it’s going to hell down there; England needs to grow a backbone.
Looks to me like they are quickly running out of rope.
Yes but the key word just became “shouldn’t” instead of “won’t” or “no” or even *now is not the time*
I did note that.
But the contrast between European nations and relic Imperial England could not be more stark. The former didn’t lift a finger to try and stop brexit. They were not weak pathetic cowards terrified of the UK leaving… declaring a brexit referendum illegal. European countries stand on their own two feet unlike England. They pay their own way and you can come or go as you please.
Imperial England picks on the really little guys, but like any bully, its their own laziness and insecurity at the heart of this. No different to Putinists in Russia.
I noticed this from the Truss in the interview:
“Liz Truss replied: “I’m very clear that, in 2014 when there was a referendum, WE said it was once in a generation.”
WE said? WE? Thocht it was yon Salmond or Sturgeon who opined thus?
Looks like mebbe whoever she represents SAID , and now it’s in tablets of stone or something.
Och well they SAID. Well then that’s it, we’ll just have to give up. They Said.
Well I SAID f**k off hen. Nothing to do wi YOU. Away and coont cheese.
“Rest and be Thankful: Rain to shut A83 for ‘safety reasons’”
That General Wade has a lot to answer for.
Looks to me like they are quickly running out of rope.