The real divisiveness is callous Tory greed

One of the most common tropes of those who viscerally oppose independence is the complaint that ‘That Essempee’ has divided Scotland. This is a theme which is enthusiastically promoted by the anti-independence media. For example this week saw the publication of the most recent Scottish Social Attitudes Survey, which found that independence is the preferred constitutional option of 52% of respondents while support for devolution as the preferred option has plummeted to 38%, and support for the outright abolition of the Scottish Parliament remains on just 8% despite the very loud and prominent presence of the staunch Über unionists on social media and in the comments sections of the Herald and the Scotsman.

52% vs 38% vs 8% is a pretty categorical finding which would translate into 53% support for independence in a binary choice referendum where the options were independence or the current Scottish Parliament, and likely would be even more decisive once people appreciate the danger to devolution posed by the current Conservative government which just this week published its so called ‘Brexit Freedoms’ bill, which allows Westminster to unilaterally over rule Holyrood and gives UK ministers the power to act within devolved areas without consent from the Scottish Government. The fact is that devolution is not safe and cannot protect Scotland from a malignant Conservative government that it did not vote for.

Truss would like nothing more than to grant that frothing 8% its dearest Cringing wish. However the only thing which prevents a Tory government which has already proclaimed that the UK is not a voluntary union of four nations, but rather one single British nation, from neutering Holyrood entirely, is the political threat of another vote on Scottish independence. If Scotland is foolish enough to vote no a second time that is exactly what will happen.

There is a broad degree of consensus in Scotland that this country needs a considerable measure of self-government. Nevertheless BBC Scotland chose to frame its report on the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey as yet more evidence that Scotland is a divided society, riven by disagreement over the constitutional question.

When the Conservatives and their allies complain about the divisiveness supposedly caused by the independence debate what they are really complaining about is that they can no longer arrogantly assume, as they did prior to 2014, that Scotland will always get Conservative governments if that is the outcome of a General Election in England. They are upset that they can not continue forever to count on electoral hauners from outwith Scotland for their political opinions which have minority support within Scotland.

They are also upset that their Brit-centric Scottish Cringe is now subject to challenge and they can no longer pontificate in the golf club or bowling club bar about how wee, poor and stupid Scotland is without the risk of being challenged.

The Scottish independence movement is overwhelmingly peaceful and law abiding, the only notable violence associated with the independence debate has come from British nationalist thugs who pose no threat to a douce middle class no voter pursing his or her lips about ‘divisiveness.’

What these no voters are really complaining about are legitimate differences of political opinion which are normal and healthy in a democratic society, the only possible reason that they might become unhealthy is because the anti-independence parties are doing their utmost to prevent these legitimate differences in political opinion from being resolved through the ballot box, which is how a properly functioning democracy deals with such matters.

There are however very deep and very real divisions within the UK, divisions which unlike differences of political opinion have a profound and lasting effect on people’s lives and prospects. Those are the divisions between the rich and the poor, the haves and the have nots. OECD figures suggest that the UK has one of the highest levels of income inequality amongst the largest economies in Europe (as measured by the Gini coefficient), although income inequality is lower than in the United States. Under successive governments social inequality in the UK is only getting worse. Since 1980, the share of income earned by the top 1% in the UK has generally been rising, rising to to 13% in 2015. This is almost double the corresponding figure for Belgium (7%) and higher than Australia (9%), Sweden (8%) and Norway (8%). These are divisions which blight lives, which create ill health and misery for millions, divisions which cause genuine grief and hardship, not the mild and minor passing discomfort of encountering an individual with a different view of Scotland’s potential place in the world from your own.

Within the UK there is also very pronounced regional inequality. For generations the economic policies of UK Governments have served to concentrate wealth and opportunities in London and the South East of England at the expense of the rest of the UK. The UK is one of the most regionally unequal economies in Europe, in Germany regional inequality is gradually diminishing – and remember Germany had to incorporate an impoverished East which was formerly part of the communist bloc – in the UK regional inequality is only getting worse.

This Conservative government’s much vaunted levelling up programme will do little to help, the Tories are using it as means of funnelling public money into Conservative voting areas and Liz Truss even had the gall to announce that removing the cap on bankers’ bonuses was a part of levelling up, which is literally claiming that you are alleviating poverty by giving the richest more money and making the poorest pay for it.

On Friday Truss’s partner in slime, the chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng, fresh from laughing and gurning his way through the Queen’s funeral, unveiled a mini budget which was shocking in its brazen enrichment of the wealthiest while we are in the midst of a cost of living crisis which threatens hundreds of thousands with penury. Kwarteng announced £45 billion in tax cuts, the great bulk of which will go straight into the bank accounts of the wealthy and which will only widen the chasm of life styles and opportunities which exists in the UK between the rich and the poor. Kwarteng’s bungs for the wealthy will be funded by government borrowing which the rest of us will have to pay for and which will be loaded on to the next set of GERS figures as more supposed ‘proof’ of a union dividend.

It’s a mini budget which is truly gob smacking, even by the standards of the Conservatives, for its cruel and callous disregard for the struggles which millions of ordinary working households are currently facing. As well as further enriching the already wealthy at all our expense, he also found time to turn the screw even tighter on those who are worst off, announcing measures to reduce the already meagre incomes of those on Universal Credit if they are deemed not to be making sufficient effort to find work. Effectively he has blamed the UK’s Brexit created labour shortage on the poor. Kwarteng is threatening to strip the poorest and most vulnerable of what little they have, leaving them even more destitute and desperate, more ripe for exploitation by greedy rich to whom he has just given a tax cut.

40% of people on Universal Credit are actually in work, 56% of people in poverty are in a working family, 7 in 10 children in poverty are in a family where at least one parent works. The Tories are cracking down on Universal Credit claimants is because they blame them for their own poverty. they are lifting the cap on bankers’ bonuses is because they are rewarding them for their own failure.

The inequality and social injustice of the UK are the real divisions that we need to worry about, they are the divisions that the Conservatives are taking a publicly funded crowbar to as they gleefully prise them ever wider apart. It’s only going to get worse under Truss.

There will always be differences of political opinion in a democracy, independence is Scotland’s only real hope of healing the divisions that really matter, the divisions created by poverty and lack of opportunity. That will never happen as part of the UK. Independence is not about creating division, it’s about healing the wounds and fractures inflicted upon Scotland by successive Conservative governments that we didn’t vote for.


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280 comments on “The real divisiveness is callous Tory greed

  1. says:

    Independence and only independence can save this country from Tory greed and unionists avarice. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  2. fairliered says:

    If the Scottish Government are reading this, please look after all Scots and don’t copy the Tory tax cuts.

  3. Dr Jim says:

    BBC and STV news both report that because of climate change Scotland is going to suffer a potato famine
    There’s something familiar about that

  4. davetewart says:

    We will just have to grow bananas to send to the englandland banana republic.

    The corn will be as high as a unicorns eye.

    Onward to freedom, the question of which currency Scotland will use looks likely to be the PetroDollar.

    • grizebard says:

      Err, no. The pound looks like a guaranteed loser, true, but before too long the fossil fuel economy is also heading for a permanent slump. But a green Scots Merk is looking ever more attractive, even right from the indy get-go.

  5. astytaylor says:

    Thoughts from Canada:
    Do it, Scotland, before it’s too bloody late. Vote for independence at the next referendum.
    Was passing through Glasgow recently. Bloody hell. Like a scene out of Bladerunner, or suchlike. Litter strewn streets, homeless hungry folk everywhere, being propped up by kind, compassionate folk handing out meals and hot drinks.
    The spark of humour remains, but we sorely need action.

  6. Gordon Ross says:

    Paul, this is one of your finest articles.

    It summarizes the abject future which awaits all non millionaires living on these isolated and shunned islands.

    But it also shines the light of freedom for Scots, into the foreboding darkness of the future “British World”.

    This, like the now notorious “Ruski Mir” (Russian World/Peace), is a dictatorship, run by psychopaths, by controlling the media, money supply,and by gaslighting a captive population.

    George Orwell was our most accurate prophet.

  7. stewartb says:

    Simon Clarke, the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities on the BBC Radio 4’s Today programme this Friday morning – in the context of the upcoming ‘fiscal event’ – referred to a ‘new government’. This term ‘new government’ has been used throughout the day by Tory politicians and political commentators in the media.

    When did voters in the UK elect a ‘new government’ – one implementing radically different economic/fiscal policies from the previous Tory government elected in 2019? Do c.160k Tory Party members constitute an electorate sufficient for democracy in the UK?

    We know how a majority of voters in Scotland respond at ballot boxes to Tories. How huge – how absurd – does the democratic deficit being experienced by Scotland have to get before an OVERWHELMING majority of voters in Scotland wake up and demand change?

    • grizebard says:

      It is a new government, but one whose extreme neoliberal policies – as you correctly observe – have no popular mandate. A new level of shamocracy.

      I’m just hopeful that the stratospheric level of hypocrisy implied in this lot attempting to overrule our properly-elected Scottish Government on anything will finally penetrate even the most dense levels of ingrained ignorance. (Well, maybe not that, but well enough anyway to win the now-inevitable indyref2.)

  8. Capella says:

    Dennis Healey once summed up Tory economics perfectly. The rich don’t work hard enough because they don’t have enough money. The poor don’t work hard enough because they have too much.”

    This is what happens when we have a cabinet of psychopaths. Fasten your seat belts we’re in for a very bumpy flight.

  9. Capella says:

    I listened to Evan Davies of the BBC interviewing Tory apologists for the robber barons. He was quite relaxed. It struck me that on his salary he had probably just received a £50,000 tax rebate.

    • grizebard says:

      Yes, I have long suspected we saw a similar thing (but in reverse) from media presenters when local income tax was a live issue – curiously these high-income folks were universally critical on behalf of the general public when – entirely coincidentally, of course – it looked like their privileged little group might take a significant tax hit.

    • Statgeek says:

      James O’Brien was slightly more realistic. He’s one of the few South of the border worth hearing. Prolly more Lab than anything else though.

      • Golfnut says:

        He’s not sure about Scottish Independence though, which is strange when you consider just how good his insight is regards brexit and the Tory party.

        • grizebard says:

          It’s “Guardian reader” mentality, and by no means rare, alas, among the otherwise reasonably enlightened. A blind spot concerning ownership and public standing. Loss of Scotland would be humiliating – the absolute worst situation for a certain type of English character – and so cannot be entertained. Taboo. This isn’t about politics (it spans the political spectrum), it’s more visceral than that, and all the more difficult for remaining largely outwith self-examination.

          Which explains the dilemma this suppressed dependence – yes, a dependence! – continually fosters, of complaining how much it supposedly costs to keep us while simultaneously being determined to hang on to us regardless.

          The solution: “get over yourself” comes to mind.

  10. Dr Jim says:

    I saw a poll that suggested 77% of England preferred academia v popularity

    There are many obvious things to say about that

  11. Bob Lamont says:

    Aye, with an energy crisis on top of a cost of living crisis, new owners in fear of losing their homes this winter, what the public really needed to hear was about helping the already rich…

    Stewartb posted an article over on TuS recently examining poverty and inequality of the uk, well worth a read.
    – The chart near the bottom labelled “figure 2.10” is remarkably telling in that the share of household income going to the top 1% has steadily increased since the late 1970s, as at 2021 it had almost tripled from when Thatcher took power, even the break with a Labour government and a Lib-dem coalition did little to reverse that trend.

    We are quite unable to convince England’s electorate their pain is self-inflicted, and which in turn dictates Scotland’s condition.

    What we can do is loudly and clearly declare “enough is enough”, file for divorce and start over.

  12. Alex Clark says:

    The sheer arrogance of the Tory party was fully on show yesterday when Kwartang stood up and announced that bonanza bumper bonuses for bankers was back. They know that this will be deeply unpopular with the majority of the public everywhere except possibly in the City of London.

    This comes on top of the doubling of people’s energy bills since last year and the Tory’s refusal to make companies pay their fair share from vastly inflated profits on energy. Instead, they will borrow, they will borrow to subsidise the energy companies’ profits, they will borrow to cut taxes for the rich but they will not borrow to improve the NHS or make life any easier for all those in poverty or without a roof over their head.

    This is pure arrogance because they simply believe that the people who vote for them are so stupid that they will not even notice such things. I think though that they are very very wrong and their arrogance will be their downfall.

    I’ll be glad to see the back of them but even happier now that such arrogance will surely result in more and more ordinary people seeing Independence not as something that could make a difference in their lives but as something absolutely essential if they want to make a difference. There really is no other way and we should be hammering that message home at every opportunity.

    • James Mills says:

      Arrogance , yes , but they simply look back at what they have ”achieved” in the last few years and are convinced that they can do ANYTHING and will still retain enough support in England to remain in power .
      They convinced enough of the English electorate that cutting off their nose was good for their facial look ( Brexit ) and then compounded this by getting them to vote in to No.10 the most blatant liar , womaniser and incompetent politician since Alan B’stard .
      The old story about Labour voters electing a monkey wearing a red rosette has come to fruition with the present Tory Gangsters in Westminster , who have given us not just The Clown Bojo but ‘surpassed’ this with the robot Truss !

      Rather than attempting to dress up their policies as more voter friendly , they have doubled down on sticking the boot in to the Poor and are blatantly siphoning money to the only constituency they have ever supported – the rich , while selling us ”austerity ” or ”levelling up ” or any other crap they can think of to keep us quiet.
      They are pishing down our backs and telling us its raining !

      And they WILL get away with it because like in the old TV show , The Outer Limits –
      ”We will control the horizontal . We will control the vertical …..
      ..sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear….” because we control the media and it has proven to be the key to controlling the herd ..sorry , the voters !

  13. Dr Jim says:

    England will still vote Tory at the next general election, because there’s one thing the Tories are better at than every other party, propaganda, and they will terrorise Englands voters as they do at every election against voting for the other dreaded socialistic non aspirational UK destroying communist style parties who are all out to prevent England, the greatest country in the world, from blossoming

    No matter what any polls suggest the Tory far right media will do their work to turn the tide against any other party, just look at what they did to Corbyn, his own party even colluded with the media against him even though his numbers were higher than any previous leader, and even though he actually looked like he could win they made sure he wouldn’t, why? because the Labour party are not the Labour party people used to think they were, they are *Sir* Kier Starmer, they are Lords and Lords and Baronesses just the same as the Tories

    Look and listen to the way they talk about the democratically elected leaders of our countries Nicola Sturgeon Mark Drakeford Michelle O’Neill and the voters who support the leaders of those parties, they respect us as little as they respect foreign immigrants striving to stay alive, they want to deport them to Rwanda, and if we who already live here don’t like it we should leave our own respective countries and bugger off elsewhere

    Folk in Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland whether unionist, remainers, change of minders, Catholic Protestant Muslim Hindu or whatever they are have to face up to the fact that no matter what we collectively vote for or against in our countries England outvotes us all and gets what they want, and what they want is Tory right wing madness

    It’s not just Scotland that needs to get out of this mess it’s the three countries of the union that are only cash drones to boost Englands economy and borrowing powers for themselves

  14. stewartb says:

    Some views on the ‘fiscal event’ (with my emphasis). Worth keeping in mind as opposition parties and their supportive media outlets press for the Scottish Government to respond in matching ways!

    RESOLUTION FOUNDATION, 24 September 2022: ‘Chancellor delivers ‘southern comfort’ statement with HOUSEHOLDS IN LONDON AND SOUTH EAST GAINING THREE TIMES AS MUCH as those in the North from tax cuts next year

    ‘Other key findings from the report Blowing the budget include:
    – …. The poorest fifth of households gain £90 on average, with the middle fifth losing £780, and ONLY THE TOP FIVE PER CENT GAINING SIGNIFICANTLY (£2,520)

    – ….. The scale of tax cuts for the richest five per cent is enough for their incomes to grow by two per cent next year (2023-24). However, THE OTHER 95 PER CENT OF THE POPULATION WILL GET POORER AS THE COST-OF-LIVING CRISIS CONTINUES

    – 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE FALL BELOW POVERTY LINE. Between 2021-22 and 2023-24, the number of people living in absolute poverty is on track to rise by 2.3 million, including 700,000 children.

    INSTITUTE FOR FISCAL STUDIES, 23 September 2022: ‘Today, the Chancellor announced the biggest package of tax cuts in 50 years WITHOUT EVEN A SEMBLANCE OF AN EFFORT TO MAKE THE PUBLIC FINANCE NUMBERS ADD UP. Instead, the plan seems to be to borrow large sums at increasingly expensive rates, put government debt on an unsustainable rising path, and hope that we get better growth.’

    Adding: ‘And WE HEARD NOTHING ON PUBLIC SPENDING. It seems almost inconceivable that plans made last year, when inflation was expected to peak around 3%, will not need topping up at some point, UNLESS THE GOVERNMENT IS WILLING TO ALLOW A (FURTHER) DETERIORATION IN THE RANGE AND QUALITY OF PUBLIC SERVICES. Presumably this government would borrow for that also. ‘


    ‘THE POOREST 10 PER CENT OF SOCIETY MEANWHILE WILL SEE LESS THAN 1 PER CENT OF THE FINANCIAL BENEFIT. In fact, the poorer half of society will share just 12 per cent of the money between them. ‘

    ‘PEOPLE LIVING IN THE LONDON AND THE SOUTH EAST OF ENGLAND WILL SEE SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER GAINS THAN THOSE LIVING IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. Londoners will see double the income growth compared to households in Northern Ireland, putting the government’s levelling-up commitments at serious risk.

    FRASER OF ALLANDER INSTITUTE, 23 September 2022: ‘Going for growth? Implications of the UK government’s Growth Plan –

    ‘The government’s decision to reverse the Health and Social Care Levy and cancel the planned Corporation Tax increases merely take policy back to where it has been in the recent past. It is a return to orthodoxy rather than a break from the norm, and in this sense IT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE THAT IT WILL MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO GROWTH.


    ‘Whether today’s announcements unleash economic growth remains very much to be seen. Strikingly, what there was NO MENTION OF TODAY WAS ANY PLANS FOR ADDITIONAL PUBLIC SECTOR INVESTMENT. Despite the government’s rhetoric about reforming the ‘supply-side’ of the economy, there was little mention of the role that the skills and health of the population play in influencing the capacity of the economy to grow.

    ‘Whilst the government seems comfortable borrowing an additional £30bn or so a year to fund the tax cuts announced today, and is apparently relaxed about an over-growing burden of national debt, the path set out today will CONSTRAIN THE GOVERNMENT’S ROOM FOR MANOEUVRE ON INVESTMENT IN PUBLIC SERVICES IN COMING YEARS.’

    • James Mills says:

      Or to put it a another way …How to Fool all of the People ALL of the Time !

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      Just to supplement stewartb:


      It comes after an analysis by Wales’ Governance Centre yesterday showed that in Wales, the average person would benefit by £440, compared with a £650 per person average across the UK.

      But nearly 90% of the gains would go to households in the top 50% of the income distribution, with 40% going to households in the top 10%, they said.

      The Resolution Foundation said that the budget will do nothing to stop more than two million people falling below the poverty line as “only the very richest households in Britain” will see their incomes grow as a result.

      The richest 5% will see their incomes grow by 2% next year (2023-24), while the other 95% of the population will get poorer as the cost-of-living crisis continues.

      The think tank added that middle-income Britain stands to lose the most overall of all the tax and benefit policies announced. The poorest fifth of households will gain £90 on average, with the middle fifth losing £780, and only the top 5% gaining significantly (£2,520).


    • JP58 says:

      Ed Davey rails against unfairness of abolishing 45% tax rate for high earners as Malcolm Bruce (Lord?) tweets about how Scottish government will need to follow suit to avoid flight of high earners from Scotland (which is highly debatable at best). I have voted Liberal and Labour in past but their sheer hypocrisy on all things relating to Holyrood is sickening. Such a contrast to Mark Drakeford in Wales which highlights even more that Scottish Labour & Lib Dems rather than constructive criticism of Holyrood policy positively rrevel in anything that will potentially disadvantage Scotland and more importantly Scottish people. Then they wonder why they have lost so many votes and seats in Scotland.

  15. Hamish100 says:

    Greed oozes from the pores of the tories.

    Labour as we know if in power will make little difference.

    The bankers and financiers have the unionists in their pockets.

  16. Capella says:

    The National analyses the Tory budget effects.

    Graph shows exactly how Tory tax cuts make the rich richer

    THIS devastating graph starkly illustrates accusations the Tories are a “reverse Robin Hood” by boosting the incomes of the super-rich while the poorest get next to nothing.

    Drawn up by Ashwin Kumar, a professor of social policy at Manchester Metropolitan University, the graph shows that while the top 10% of households stand to gain by far the most from the Government’s tax-slashing plans, the worst-off will see no benefit.

    Kumar told The National those in the bottom decile of family income would stand to gain only 15p per week on average from the new plans – just enough to buy one banana from a major supermarket.

  17. Capella says:

    A variation on Dennis Healey’s observation:

    How Universal Credit changes announced today will affect you

    How will the changes affect UC claimants?
    Prior to the changes, people who worked and earned less than £114 per week were required to attend weekly or fortnightly work coaching sessions aimed at helping them find better-paid work.

    The new regime means anyone on less than £142.50 a week – some 120,000 people, according to the Government’s estimates – will need to attend these sessions or face having their benefits cut.

    READ MORE: Question Time attempts to address bias criticism – but is warned it’s not enough

    Responding to the announcement in the Commons, Hilary Benn, the Labour MP for Leeds Central, demanded to know “how on earth” the plans were fair when contrasted with plans to allow bankers once again to have uncapped bonuses.

    He added: “The Chancellor argues on the one hand, that those on the lowest incomes – people on Universal Credit – should face the threat of having their income reduced further, in order to boost economic growth.

    “While on the other hand, he says to people already on the highest income – bankers – that they need an increase in their incomes through their bonuses in order to do the same.”

  18. Capella says:

    ‘Bankers are looting the world. You’re not in the middle of a recession; you’re in the middle of a robbery.’
    Frankie Boyle

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      Not me, but I recall another quote – something along the lines of:

      “There are no bank robberies any more. The robbers are *inside* the banks.”

      Anyone remember the original/the person who said it?

      • Capella says:

        Don’t know the origin of that quote W.S. I checked the chapter headings of “Banksters: How a Powerful Elite Squandered Ireland’s Wealth” a source of many witty banking aphorisms. But no. It’s true though.

  19. Alex Clark says:

    One thing the Tory government has been world beating at during the past two years is breaking all kinds of records.

    Under Tory leadership the UK has seen records for the highest inflation in 40 years, the highest tax burden in 72 years, 15 years of stagnant real wage growth and yesterday the £ dropped 3.6% to $1.09 its lowest value against the dollar for 37 years.

    The arguement for cutting the tax burden of the wealthiest mind and not those that are struggling is it will encourage economic growth, the same reason for canceling the planned rise in corporation tax which is hoper will encourage inward investment.

    The money men though see things very differently and were bailing out of UK short term government bonds at an alarming rate, the rate of interest that the UK government is having to pay on all this new borrowing has reached 4% almost double what it was last year and this is very likely to increase even further and so to will UK interest rates.

    There will be a good few chickens that will be coming home to roost for those that insist on voting for the Tory party in the belief that they are competent in handling the economy. Fooled time and time again, will No voters heed the lesson?

    • Capella says:

      Unfortunately we pick up the bill. A progressive tax system is funded by the wealthy. Borrowing is funded by the rest of us, and we pay interest on top.
      Taxation or debt. Difficult decision.

  20. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Great piece Paul….

    I see the media in Scotland and the Tories here too are responding to the HQ ‘budget to enrich those already rich’…..with a combined ask that the Scottish government must also lower taxes for the rich here too….

    Apparently the budget which has been met with much derision and opposition by many economic experts within the UK is presented here in Scotland as somehow a ‘quandary’ for the Scottish government….somehow I do not see this as being an argument that many SANE people here will align with…..I mean there is desperate and then there is…ludicrous.

    To think we all thought Johnson would be the one who ended the (non) Union…then we saw and heard Truss during the Tory leadership campaign and we realised then and indeed very much now they were offering up an even WORSE option, via Truss, which will ENSURE even MORE Scots will perhaps now seek salvation via independence…..

    The Tory branch office and their media are once again doing their ONLY job in Scotland ….as in trying to con us the voters into believing that what has unfolded via this so called HQ ‘budget’ is best for Scotland…..and one OUR government should aspire to emulate …..while simultanously both they, the Tories and the media, will continue to crucify our government for the inequalities they say are suffered by the poorest people here as a direct result of Scotland supposedly having the worse UK public services and also their , Scottish Government’s, supposed lack of action on helping those most in need…..( aided by OTHER Pro UK opposition politicians and their media who are never slow at seeing and taking advantage of ANY opportune moment to BLAME everything on OUR government while slow to lay the blame on the REAL culprits…i.e. the Tory UK government and their client journalists in the media).

    I think many a fair minded person can see who the REAL baddies are in all of this and who is enabling them to continue on this course (media)…..they also see the Scottish government constantly being the convenient scapegoat for bad policies enacted by the Tory UK government….. and also adopting the constant Pro UK bad practice of using and abusing the Scottish government as their, Pro UK lobby’s preferred weapon of choice, for uber deflection from all that the UK government do while their branch office try their best to promote much if not ALL of the DIVISION here in Scotland.

    I would have thought all indecision from some voters in Scotland on it’s future course would by now have evaporated completely as it is crystal clear the path the UK is now on….and it seems to me that to still be in doubt is perhaps to be in a state of delusion that somehow things MAY improve…..when surely the best way to see any advancement as in way of an improvement on the here and now… is to be free from it ALL …..

    Obviously we have the media and Pro UK politicians present a combined Armageddon vision of an Independent Scotland…..while simultanously all we hear from them is that currently OUR resources CAN help sustain the WHOLE UK in energy and indeed profits for their Treasury via Fossil fuels ( and indeed Labour see a Windfall tax as a way for ALL UK citizens to see an ease on the financial impact for them via the current energy price increases)….with renewable energy in the future as a NEW source for the WHOLE UK for energy and profit….much of which will be sourced via OUR wind and tidal capacity here in Scotland…..)…..

    Only an idiot or one kidding themselves would equate resources that can sustain the whole UK and result in profit for it while simultanously believing they , as resources, could NOT do the same for an independent Scotland….. but let’s forget Fossil fuels… renewable energy is our NEW oil and Gas resource BUT they will also present this energy resource as deficient for an independent Scotland but as Johnson said FOR the UK it will make “the UK the Saudi Arabia of wind power”….. ……just as the Oil and gas were apparently running out in 2014 we will hear that the wind in Scotland will stop blowing and the tides will stop moving…..

    NOW JR Mogg and his party have sanctioned MORE licences to explore MORE Gas and Oil fields……to drain dry all that is left for THEIR benefit via profit for THEIR UK treasury and supposedly for the UK energy shortfall and proving that COP 26 for them has now become COP OUT 2022…..while still telling us in Scotland that WE need THEM and THEIR UK to survive….forgetting conveniently we are STILL a part of their UK and thus STILL contribute to it…..indeed our contribution is a lot more than they, and t’others, will admit it is …and does much to help sustain THEIR UK at present (and in the past)…..

    If more in Scotland do not wake up NOW then they can forget having dreams as their only future, and ours too ,will surely be a NIGHTMARE…..courtesy of Tories, their media and other Pro UK opposition parties that currently hope that some here in Scotland continue to sleepwalk through their Pro UK presented fantasy vision of their Brexit UK….and only when tis too late will those same people, here in Scotland, be rudely awakened to the actual reality of a Brexit UK when they realise they missed the chance , in voting NO again, to live in a country that aspired to be a much better independent country that provided them and theirs with more REAL opportunities and choices than the one they now find themselves still suffering within and indeed now imprisoned within i.e. Brexit UK aka the real Armageddon choice for Scotland in the future.

    Thus it’s not bad or the wrong time to ask them NOW the question …

    Are you YES yet ?

    The above may seem very bleak and a tad too dramatic but let’s be honest you cannot trivialise it or underestimate it….Now is The Time to call a spade a spade….surely.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Unfortunately, there are far too many people who just are not interested in politics at all, they know that the Tories will never do them any favours but they are told continuously that all politicians are the same as a tactic that suits those in power.

      The last thing the Unionists want is an enthusiastic, engaged and knowledgable electorate, they work very hard through their media to keep it that way and prevent people from voting for change. That’s where all the project fear comes from, “Oh Independence is just too difficult and we canny dae it!”

      That’s we the supporters of Independence come in, we really need to do the best we can to get those who normally take no interest in politics much more engaged, they need to believe that it is very much in their own interests to do so. There are still a lot of votes to be won by explaining the benefits of Independence to those that might listen.

      We should keep that in mind whenever there is an opportunity, it might be that there is another Independence referendum in just over a year’s time so it’s never too soon to get started campaigning and now is as good a time as any.

    • JoMax says:

      And so on to a programme on BBC radio today, ‘Moneybox’ which contains the latest news from the world of finance and helps people manage their money better.

      At the end of a discussion about the pros (are there really any?) and cons of the budget the presenter ends with “… and the Scottish and Welsh Govts will be given additional funding to help them ….. “. It’s humiliating because the use of the word ‘given’ and the underlying implication every time this sort of remark is pumped out is, for the English listener, “What? They’re getting even more money? They rely on us for everything”, and for the Scottish Unionist “See, we told you so. We can’t do without their subsidies all the time”.

      I hate it, don’t you, because of the innuendo and the fact that the whole UK system is so skewed in one direction, London, England and from which all disinformation flows constantly. They get away with it because the average Joe and Jean don’t really understand how the financial system actually works and how, in reality, London, England gets overall control of the whole shebang.

  21. It really is something that we can look back on Johnson and cabinet as Tory moderates compared to what has replaced him.

    But then we knew what would come after could only be worse that what came before. Brengland is in a right-wing death spiral and there’s no stopping them bringing the UK to its final end.

  22. Dr Jim says:

    In 2014 the Tory Labour Lib Dem argument was that all the wealthy people would flee Scotland at the prospect of independence, they didn’t, ah but they would have and they will if Scotland had chosen independence then and if it does now, they will say

    But that second argument is a psychic projection based on zero analysis, because there can be no analysis if it’s never happened before so it’s a project fear guess based on as many British nationalists they can get to repeat it in the Daily Express and on the telly

    They can’t admit that Brexit caused horrendous damage to them without admitting what they did over Brexit was damaging and wrong, Scotlands argument however is that we’re reversing the damage of Brexit and escaping even more by getting out of the UK

    The only argument they have left now is the we’re bigger than you and trade disruption bluff, but if the EU publicly come out early enough looking forward to a new and happy relationship with Scotland in the future the UK will be forced to play its last card of outright threat and doom for all in the hope that terrifies enough soft voters to back off, and I kinda wish they’d just get to that part now, because there’s nothing more aggravating to Scots than being openly threatened, we do tend to come out growling, and definitely not for turning

    So come at us England, see what happens

    Ooh, btw nice one Italy

    • Statgeek says:

      “the UK will be forced to play its last card of outright threat and doom”

      The thing is, they never fight their own battles. They employ others to do it. Police, army, locals that seem to think that these liars are on their side. We saw it 40 years ago from the Tories. We’ll see it again.

  23. Alex Clark says:

    Jackie Bird will replace Neil Oliver as the President of the National Trust for Scotland.

    • Hamish100 says:

      One Tory for another.

      When Oliver got appointed x years ago I resigned the family membership with the reasons and got a snotty reply back.
      Not been back to a NTS site since.

  24. I see Scottish Tory MPs are demanding that Sturgeon cut their tax bill too.

    If they want lower taxes, why not move to a part of their country with lower rates, like Englandshire? Then they can use the cash they save to pay for their prescriptions and kid’s uni tuition fees etc.

    I had a Tory tell me once that they would be happy to pay for their prescriptions. I told them that nothing is stopping them; they can ask the cost then donate it to their local NHS board. I suspect they are not doing that.

  25. Statgeek says:

    Just playing with some numbers today, and had a peek at the average of recent five polls (pre the mini-budget). It’s really the most recent six polls, since one of them omitted Scottish CBs, and that’s just rude.

    Anyway, I plugged the averages of UK and Scotland into the Electoral Calculus site prediction thingummy, and it spat out a Lab majority of 2.

    Yes, just 2, despite all the Tory shenanigans, up to the mini-budget, and presumably on the back of wall to wall Royal coverage, and three of the polls being post-funeral.

    I occurred to me that Lab had 3 seats in Scotland for their majority of 2 in the UK, which begs the question, would any single Scottish Labour MP have the power of a government bill? The short answer is it’s not a workable majority with the RW media the way it is, and they’d never let up on anything less than a majority of 20+, and it all ignores the speaker’s seat (I can never tell if these calcs allow for it).

    So I took a peek at a few ‘majority scenarios’:

    Lab Majority – 2 – Unworkable
    Lab / Lib Coalition – 34 – Workable, if Lib really zip up the back these days, and if Lab trust them, which they don’t.
    Lab / SNP coalition – 120 – That would test the Alba supporters, wouldn’t it ( 🙂 ), but I think it’s fair to say that neither party wants to work with the other, without opening any can of worms.
    Lab majority if Scotland goes Indy – 55 – A solid, strong, stable Government, that still needs to thrash out Brexit and the GFA problem.
    Lab majority with no Scotland or NI – 73 – A very respectable Lab Majority, and one with a majority of seats of each of the remaining nations in rUK (Eng & Wal*).

    So the eye candy –

    I did fancy popping in the result without Wales, but the EC site show’s gains by county, and my Welsh county knowledge isn’t great. Besides, the Welsh CBs in the polls aren’t telling much. Best guess:
    Con 2 (-12)
    PC 5 (+1)
    Lab 33 (+11)

    My estimate suggests a Lab majority of 47 in England. That 42% of English seats would still go blue after all this is frightening. Terrifying. They should be in 25% territory at best.

    • Dr Jim says:

      If Labour even made a friendly nod of the head towards the SNP they would suffer the toxic poisonings and finality of death of a puff adder bite from the English electorate because the Tory press would make sure the SNP would sound worse than Putin on steroids, Scottish people running England? perish the thought

      Personally I don’t believe Labour has a chance at the next general election, England is and will be convinced again by the Tory propaganda that Labour is Mussolini and the current Tories are a centre party who are economically crafty and won’t dump foreigners on them

    • Hamish100 says:

      If Scotland decides to vote for Independence parties and win outright then that’s the better outcome. Unfortunately the franchise 16 and 17 year olds is removed.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      If you could ‘pop in the Welsh result’, Statgeek, I could number crunch for you …

      I note it’s suggesting the best ever PC result of 5 seats. (But the whole country is due to lose a lot more following the most recent Electoral Commission/Con gerrymandering efforts.)

      • Statgeek says:

        Could probably have number crunched a little too, but polling companies tend to lump Wales in with the Midlands for their crossbreaks.

        Not sure if this calc is useful or not. I don’t tend to trust them as a rule, but they can be handy at showing shifts.

        Last three Welsh polls according to wiki were Dec ’21, Mar ’22, and June ’22, so even those are well out of date, but were consistent. The previous two are over a year old, and favour Con far too much. However, the averages of the three:

        Lab 41.0
        Con 26.0
        PC 14.0
        LD 5.7
        Ref/Bxt 5.7
        Grn 4.7
        Oth 2.7

        And the calc suggests seats of:

        Lab 29 (+7)
        Con 6 (-8)
        PC 5 (+1)

        However, the most recent UK poll that ‘seems’ above board and specifically separates Wales (crossbreak of 75, so extremely open to MoE), was 21st Sep, by Redfield & Wilton:

        Con 26%
        Lab 47%
        Lib 6%
        Grn 8%
        PC 10%
        Ref/Bxt 3%
        Oth 0%

        Seats calc says:

        Lab 31 (+9)
        Con 5 (-9)
        PC 4 (n/c)

        There’s some serious need for non-UK polling right now. Need a couple of thousand-strong polls in Scotland, and a 1,500 in NI and Wales each wouldn’t go amiss. Numbers strong enough to drop the MoE below 3% (especially in situations where that 3% can shift the poll result on something such as Indyref VI).

  26. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    You know there has been so much sh*t going down for years with the Tories that to remember AND list it all would make you sound like a batsh*t conspiracy theorist…

    But the real crux of the problem is the fact that there HAS been SO MUCH SH*T going down with the Tories that is the real scandal….

    I’m old enough to remember that once upon a time only a select very few scandals broke through into the media…..God knows how many were hidden….but NOW it’s a constant…… I almost certain that some people would probably STOP voting Tory if they , as a party, became scandal free….because WITH all of the scandals they have been involved in (and c*ck ups) STILL some members of the public support and vote for them !!!!

    My favourite (favourite as in are they mad these people) is when some members of the public spouts that Boris got all the BIG calls right, did a good job at a time when it was so very difficult for HIM during Covid and that THEY (the bad Tories…is there good ones ?) were out to get him…..the last one suggests he, Johnson, was totally innocent and free from all sin….and that it was the mean Tories in the party that were targeting him undeservedly…same Tories though who won their seats when he got them a majority of over 80 seats in HOC in 2019 GE…well guess it only makes sense to people who don’t like (want) to think too hard ……not that any of those members of the public have surmised all of this themselves…no…they needed the Daily Express and t’other like minded newspapers to tell them that Boris was great and he did great…..these papers should combine and be called The Daily Parrot….as those who read these papers simply parrot everything they read….they read the words…they take them in (in order to parrot them at some point on debate shows, Vox pop’s or down the pub)….the missing part is the THINKING part post the reading part in the paper that they, as members of the public, choose to read (for reasons)….THINKING more could perhaps help them come to a different conclusion from the one the newspaper wants them to come to….as in the TRUTH.

    Mind you it is the same with politicians…..everything is black and white….as grey areas are for the Lefty W*ke apparently….and too much thinking hurts your head…and best to leave thinking to your betters and the experts (selective ones)…..and too much thinking might actually wake you up and make you realise the REAL truth…..sacre bleu we cannot have that in a Tory Brexit UK…..

    All well what to do….apart from keep thinking, keep challenging them and keep supporting independence….(and never read Scum newspapers or watch Scum TV Channels)……………it’s the only thing that keeps you sane….allegedly.

    Talking of polls….

    My favourite poll is the one that shows how few people in their UK reads some of the Scum newspapers or watches some of the Scum TV channels….that cheers me up.

  27. Alex Clark says:

    It’s galling that Irish football supporters can watch their national team play against Scotland at Hampden tonight on free-to-air RTE 2 but here in Scotland your only choice is to pay for Sky if you want to watch the game.

    Scotland must be one of very few countries in the world where you have to pay to watch the national team at football even when they are playing at home. As far as I’m aware the Welsh team games in the UEFA Nations League are broadcast by S4C and all of England’s games will be broadcast live on Channel 4.

    I’ve no idea why we continue to put up with being treated as second class citizens.

  28. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    TalkSport Radio covered a BOXING match while Scotland played Ireland tonight…

    However on Monday night they are covering England v Germany football match…did they also cover the England match with Italy …..Hmm

    Yet we are, according to Lordy David Frost , a UNITARY state aka the UK….

    Me thinks many in the media thinks the UNITARY state is England…well as far Sport and Politics are concerned it seems so….oops and reality shows, comedy shows, Talk shows, quiz shows, Soaps etc etc……

    Well done tonight Scotland…another WIN in the bag….Keep it up….

  29. Bob Agassi says:

    I’m going to go let’s show these bastards we are serious…

  30. Dr Jim says:

    In Scotland the Labour party insist the SNP are the devil incarnate, in England the Labour party are trying to become the SNP but with one huge very noticeable difference, every time Labour are asked about changing Tory policy and big business bankers bonusses if they get elected they dodge answering

    There is one other SNP similarity I spotted, their new slogan *greener fairer future*?
    I think we’ve all seen something like this before in our terrible evil SNP run Scotland

    I still don’t think no matter what they do Labour is electable in England any more, just as they’re not in Scotland, and their problem is they’re rubbish at *lying*, they’re not as good at it as the Tories

    Great determination effort last night with Scotlands win over Ireland, Scotland not at their best but ground it out

    I believe England have been relegated from the nations league as not up to the standard of a nation, sad

  31. Having greedy people leave the country en masse is great news. Frees up wages which can be more fairly redistributed to those that actually did the hard work to earn it.

    I mean it’s not as if a banker on a huge salary ‘works harder’ than a nurse or a refuse collector. The latter two are also key to society; it’s why they had to keep going during the pandemic while the bankers could be furloughed…

    Nor are bankers ‘more intelligent’ than e.g. a university research scientist. No, they are just paid excessively for taking wealth away from others / depriving them of it; which is how the wages of the very wealthy are generally generated. I mean it’s not as if city bankers create anything. They don’t generate wealth, they just move it around, generally from the pockets of people with less into their own.

  32. Good stuff. Time for Labour to fence sit at least. It can’t out SNP the SNP on the centre left, can’t out Tory the Tories on the right-wing union, and with Scots now preferring indy to Lab/Lib devo…

    British Social­ Attitudes: Almost four in 10 Labour voters back Scottish independence

    The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.

    Labour could become like Alliance in NI; progressive, but neutral on the constitutional question, simply backing the right of Scots to decide. The danger of not doing that is them dying with the union.

  33. Welsh_Siôn says:

    This for @statgeek (and perhaps others), upstream:

    The first poll of Wales since Liz Truss became Prime Minister puts the Conservatives “close to a 1997-style electoral wipe-out” according to an expert.

    ITV Cymru Wales and Cardiff University’s latest opinion poll reveals that the majority of people in Wales don’t trust Liz Truss’ government to make the right decisions for the country.

    The Barn Cymru poll, conducted by YouGov for ITV Cymru Wales and Cardiff University, shows 66% of people lack faith in the new PM’s government.

    Although 12% of those surveyed thought Truss – who won the Conservative Leadership contest on September 6 – would make a good prime minister, nearly half of the respondents thought she’d be a poor or terrible PM.


    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      Westminster Voting Intention

      Conservative – 23% (-3)
      Labour – 46% (+5)
      Liberal Democrats – 5% (-2)
      Plaid Cymru – 15% (-1)
      Reform UK – 5% (+1)
      Green Party – 3% (-1)
      Other – 3% (+1)

      Senedd Constituency Voting Intention

      Conservative – 20% (- 4)
      Labour – 40% (+ 3)
      Liberal Democrats – 6%
      Plaid Cymru – 22% (+ 1)
      Reform UK – 5%
      Green Party – 3% (-2)
      Other – 4%

      YouGov polled a representative sample of 1,014 Welsh voters, aged 16+, between September 20-22 for ITV Cymru Wales and Cardiff University.

    • Statgeek says:

      That seat calc tool reckons it’s:
      Lab 32 (+10)
      Con 4 (-10)
      PC 4 (nc)

      Hmm. I wonder how the EC tool fairs?

  34. Welsh_Siôn says:

    And in other news:

    Keir Starmer defies call for changes to first past the post voting system

    The Labour leader said electoral reform was not a priority and refused to make it one of the party’s election manifesto pledges


    Keir Starmer has ruled out including any support for a change in the voting system in Labour’s election manifesto, as senior figures from across the party joined calls to back proportional representation (PR).

    Labour’s annual conference, under way in Liverpool, is expected to back a motion calling for the party to drop its historical support for the first past the post system amid concerns that it has locked Labour out of power.

    Andy Burnham, the Greater Manchester mayor, and John McDonnell, the former shadow chancellor and ally of Jeremy Corbyn, are among those joining a growing campaign to replace it.

    However, the Labour leader said in an interview with the Observer there would be no deal – before or after the election – that would see him back a change. Asked if Labour’s manifesto would include pledges on electoral reform, he said: “No, it’s not a priority for me.”


  35. Capella says:

    Andrew Tickell takes apart the carefully constructed lies in the Tory budget.

    Andrew Tickell: The UK Chancellor is selling a lie

    The basic reality remains unchanged: £25,971 is the average income of the ­average UK worker. Half earn more, half less. Some will work full-time, others part. But line us all up from the wealthiest to the poorest, and if you earn just under £26k a year, you’ll find yourself smack bang in the middle of the wage line. Most folk need a telescope to see the higher rates of income tax.

    In British politics, a great deal of ­energy goes into convincing people that this is not the case. Some of this social distortion is wilful. Some is just born of ignorance. Both are pernicious. Social ­psychological data has shown that the rich tend to ­underestimate their wealth, and the poor underestimate their relative poverty.

  36. Capella says:

    And the direct consequences of Tory policies

    Age Scotland: People will die this winter

    PEOPLE will die this winter if there is not more support to help with the cost of living crisis, a charity has warned.
    Age Scotland chief executive Brian Sloan said that while the proposed £2500 energy price guarantee would provide “some mild relief”, nothing announced so far by the UK Government is enough to protect older people against the “devastating impact” of rising costs this winter.
    “Especially when you consider that, on average, people will be paying about twice as much to heat and power their homes as they did last year,” said Sloan

  37. Pat McFadden must have been one of those catholics at whom Martin Geissler had a good giggle during the Great Mourning, whom John Knox drove out of Scotland.
    He was on Geissler’s Catholic Free Scotland show this morning, presumably because Sarwar or Murray were too busy, to discuss Kwasi Kerching’s Give to the Rich, starve the poor, ‘radical’ budg…oh, sorry, ‘fiscal event’ last Friday.
    Well he is a Jock after all.

    It had me reaching for Wiki.
    A Paisley boy, his parents from Donegal; he plodded his way through the ususal ‘Scottish Labour’ undergrowth. BA in politics at Edinburgh Uni, a bag man, speechwriter, SPAD for Smith, then Blair, then Brown, then got a safe seat in Wolverhampton, and describes himself on his Wiki blurb as Centre Left (Tory) Labour, who has had wee Shadow Cabinet roles in Miliband’s Lot, then sacked by Corbyn, now back on Starmer’s team as Shadow something or other.

    Yet there he was on Geissler’s show telling us Scots what’s good for us, what he would and wouldn’t let us do when Labour Are Back in two years time.

    Geissler made a point of letting us know that those other cowards, B-Lister Johnson Man Union Jack, gentleman Farmer and Tent Hirer, and Dross, 4 Jobs chancer who would surely welcome the 5% cut in his bloated tax bill, refused to come on his wee show.
    Instead, we got to meet John Lamont, from his cubby hole in Kelso, who trotted out the same well rehearsed nonsense which Kwasi Kerching spouted on Laura K’s earlier hour of nonsense.

    Growth, trickle down, the rich folk will leave Scotland if the SNP/Green Scottish Government don’t morph into a fascist dictatorship, like Our Friends In The South.

    Ian Blackford was on too, but Geissler’s heart was not in it. Not much ‘yes butting’ interruptions this time.
    England has gone stark staring bonkers.

    They can’t even be bothered facing the Scottish public any more.

    Geissler was peddling the ‘threat’ that the rich will march out of Scotland and head back to the Motherland if that nasty Nikla doesn’t give them more money.

    I propose setting up an Evacuation Task Force so that we can organise a fleet of cars to ferry them South.

    I offer my old bone rattler and me as part of the Exodus Team.

    What a state poor old England is in now.

    A faceless Tory Nobody, and an old New Labour time server, who, like all Tory Tony Boys is a ‘Friend of Israel’, are all the Yoons could come up with this Sunday morning to defend/attack Kerching’s Theft of our money.

    Jack, Sarwar, Ross, Murray, Coal-Scuttle, are in hiding. Some would call them cowards…I couldn’t possibly comment.
    Kuennsberg avoided Brexit completely when discussing Kwasi’s ‘growth’ forecasts.
    After all, she too has just gor a 5% bung from the man.

  38. Capella says:

    An exodus of Tory voters to low tax, stamp duty free England will have an excellent effect on the voting register next October.

    • And their offspring won’t have to pay Stamp Duty on the £425.000 First Time Buyer flat.
      In what world do these idiots live?
      Remember Project Fear One. Blair McDougall was forecasting 700,000 fleeing South come independence.
      Has he been signing on since September 2014?

  39. stewartb says:

    As the corporate media, the BBC and supposedly important industry figures urge the Scottish Government to ape Westminster’s income tax reductions, it’s worth getting a better perspective on what normal independent nation states do with their agency over fiscal policy.

    From Talking up Scotland on 10 July 2022: ‘Scotland and tax: ‘Normality’ is ability to make different choices. Agency leads to distinctive choices: the case of tax systems in ‘normal’ European nation-states’.

    I suspect that too many in Scotland – perhaps especially those hesitant about independence – fail to appreciate fully the options that having the agency of an independent nation-states brings. The TuS post illustrates the diversity of fiscal choices made by normal independent nation-states, including those within the EU, and indeed the Eurozone, in the particular domains of personal and business taxation. It draws heavily on a EUROSTAT paper on tax revenues within EU and other European countries.


    And as I noted earlier in the present btl thread, the Fraser of Allander Institute on 23 September 2022, in an article entitled ‘Going for growth? Implications of the UK government’s Growth Plan’, observed (with my emphasis):


    Do the well resourced researchers and journalists in BBC Scotland lack the knowledge – or is it the interest or the motivation or the permission – to ‘inform’ and ‘educate’ viewers/listeners/readers in Scotland on such factual matters? Is providing context and perspective a disservice to the Union?

    • Indeed, Stewart,
      Geissler and Kuennsberg are hired to ‘dumb down’, not inform or educate.
      TV for the dead of mind.
      A pointless waste of air time; trotting out the same gunge day after day, when, in the real world, grown-ups debate, consider, and inform the rest of us.
      It’s more that their job’s worth, to actually challenge these carpetbaggers, who are after all, their paymasters.

  40. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Magnus Llewellin Times Editor Scotland (INO) tweeted :

    “Sturgeon has denounced the tax cuts and they may well be seriously flawed – but at least Liz Truss has an economic strategy”…

    That is pure trolling and baiting…..Truss has produced a “seriously flawed economic strategy” yet Magnus STILL manages to turn it into #SNPBAD ……

    This is just a game to some of them…a laugh.

    While the Sunday Times are reporting that hedge-fund managers supporting Truss all made a fortune on Friday betting against the currency……

    The Financial Times reporting that ‘The Market’ is asking ….How are you going to pay for this ? and there is almost a sense in which that question hasn’t been given a jot of consideration ……and that if the Chancellor’s’ plan did NOT boost the economy then “the UK could potentially be on the hook for a credit rating downgrade”….

    Meanwhile at the Labour party conference :

    Labour have an enormous video banner of the Queen to use at the opening of their conference tomorrow morning.

    Delegates will sing ‘God Save The King’ and Keir Starmer will pay tribute.

    Labour Priorities ……Labour focus…..Labour window dressing….Labour optics…..Labour yet again as sure as night follows day will not fail to note that #SNPBAD very very bad….indeed the worse according to Labour…..while the Tories destroy their beloved UKnotOK……meanwhile don’t forget #LabourLordsGood…….

    Labour via Starmer fighting to get to the TOP of being SEEN as the MOST patriotic and British political party TREE…as in WE Labour are THE MOST Bwitish party in the UKnotOK……and we too WILL GET BREXIT DONE…

    Scottish (INO) Tory MP’s all ONCE again sent forth to promote yet ANOTHER new PM’s message …..why sure even Andrew Bowie who condemned Liz Truss during the leadership campaign for her pledge to cut taxes when he said “Liz Truss tax cut plan is “reckless” & would “lumber future generations with debt”. will NOW promote it as THE winning formula for HIS UKnotOK……see with them it is party before country always…….indeed he tweeted this post Chancellor’s ‘mini’ budget speech in HOC:

    “I was in the Chamber today to listen to the Chancellor deliver his Growth Plan. It is bold”……..

    “BOLD”…but what about “”reckless” & would “lumber future generations with debt” Mr Bowie……how quickly YOU have turned from previous position you held on Truss’s ‘plans’……but yet how predictable of YOU….sycophant always…..aka IDIOT.

    They all treat us like fools….some people clearly ARE….but thankfully they are not the ‘MAJORITY’ that they like to present themselves as in Scotland….if they were we would have a Pro UK Scottish government and a ‘majority’ of pro UK MP’s at WM via Scotland……….but we do NOT….so tis minority they are…..thank God.

    Only those who are uber Pro UK can make disasters orchestrated by BritNat political parties then appear to be seen somehow as a failing for the Scottish government….

    That is , once again, where we are AT……..rinse and repeat on EVERYTHING henceforth…………

    • But, NMRN, didn’t First Lieutenant, (RN Failed) Andrew Bowie, not declare that he was re-enlisting in the senior Service to go and fight Putin?
      He didn’t? Thotnot.
      Of course he’ll be manning the picket line at Stoneywood Paper Mill which has closed its doors after 250 years because they can’t afford the energy costs any more.
      He’ll be outraged that the workforce have been sacked without consultation.
      Och, this is just getting too silly.

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Aye Jack BUT he missed his chance to perhaps become the next Scottish (INO) Secretary of State and thus implementing what he announced that Sunak would do as in BYPASS the Scottish government to IMPOSE key Tory policies….his ONLY raison d’être for supporting Sunak in leadership campaign was to see HIS own career advancement….

        He will be hurting….lovely…..and now will be exposed to MORE people as the A*SE he truly is….when having to defend policies via Truss that he formally condemned in her leadership campaign…thus confirming to more people what a complete waste of space he truly truly is…… heart he is a YES man….for the party that is….LOL.

  41. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Read this tweet today that was tweeted on 24 Sept by Indy supporter :

    “Lib Dems in England telling us yesterday’s mini budget was just a tax cut for the rich and did nothing for the poor.
    Lib dems in Scotland telling us the rich will now leave Scotland so we should copy Tory policy”

    Above tweet was prompted by a tweet via Lib Dem LORD Malcom ‘all politicians LIE’ Bruce that was tweeted by him on 23 Sept which said :

    “Widening tax differential between Scotland and England could trigger exodus of higher earners and loss of tax revenues”

    SEE……….that is the reality…..Lib Dems ….what are they good for …HUH…absolutely NOTHING….say it AGAIN.

    There is not enough expletives available in any language for me to express my utter utter loathing for the Lib Dems…..ALL of them……

    • Statgeek says:

      It suggests that Lib Dems in Scotland would be better suited to moving South and voting for the Tory government in constituencies where their polices might get traction.

      Or is that too Democratic, and not Liberal enough? Democratic. Where 58 of 59 MPs are elected to opposition, and the Tory government does what it wants with 1 MP.

  42. barpe says:

    I do hope that Nicola tells us we are not to follow the higher rate tax band removal.
    It will then be a clear sign of ‘blue water’ between Scotland and England.
    If people on the highest salaries (not THAT many in Scotland, proportionately) threaten to move across the border to England , then let them. This fear that was used in 2014 will not wash now, I believe – and some rich folk will still be prepared to pay their share, and stay.
    Call the English bluff, I say!

    • Golfnut says:

      Absolutely, if they came here by choice they are highly unlikely to move because of tax bungs over the border. They lose a hel l of a lot more than they will gain by moving. If they are here because of their job, then the it’s the job that will determine where, when and why they would move.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      If these ‘higher tax rate band fleers’ are of the sort of the Baroness Moan and her ilk, I don’t think ordinary Scots will miss them one bit.

      Speaking of which – what’s the latest on her and her husband? Things have gone deathly quiet recently, dontchathink?

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      I imagine some of those higher earners who own businesses or are employed by companies might prefer to stay in Scotland…because with the prospect of independence in Scotland and the fact that we may rejoin the EU…..thus THAT in turn would see more advantages and financial gains for them in the long term….I mean is it not true that many large corporations throughout the UK have now located offices in Dublin to still have access to EU market……swings and roundabout surely.

    • It doesn’t even reach the level of ‘bluff’, barpe.
      Douglas Fraser on Distorting Scotland in conversation with Sally was the first to tout the nonsense that the ‘20,000’ earning more than £150,000 Up Here may consider moving out of Scotland.
      It is arrant nonsense, of course.
      Quality of life for well off folk in Scotland does not hinge on what income tax they pay.
      It’s just the stultifyingly stupid stuff Jock hacks trot out for their foreign masters.
      The 350,000 English born who have come here to work, settle, and bring up their children made this choice for a variety of reasons… ‘damn few’ are here for the tax rates.

      • stewartb says:

        Breakfast table conversation in a family in Scotland with one of the members earning enough to be impacted by the additional 45% rate of income tax:

        The big earner: “That’s it – we’re moving to England to get the benefit of the Tory tax cut.”

        The rest of the family in unison: “But we like living here – we like this house, we like our school, we like our friends, we like our lifestyle, we like ….” and on and on and on.

        The big earner: “Sorry guys but I’m not paying more tax than I have to – we’re moving to England as soon a possible’.

        The critical thinker in the family: “Are we going to downsize our house? Because if not, we’ll have to pay more to have the same size and quality of house. in a nice area like this. And if we’re not downsizing in a big way, we’ll still have Stamp Duty to pay plus of course removal expenses.” And after a pause: “By the way, who do you think’s going to win the next UK general election in two years time?”

        The big earner: ” No idea – could be Labour I guess.”

        The critical thinker again: “Mmm – Labour has just committed to reverse the Tory income tax cut you want to uproot us to benefit from!”

        The big earner: “We could always move back to Scotland later?”

        The rest of the family in unison: “And pay tax on yet another house purchase?”

        The critical thinker: “How on earth do you justify that large salary?”

        • grizebard says:

          Not to mention free prescriptions for any of them unlucky enough to get seriously ill. And free eventual university tuition for their critical thinker!

          It doesn’t even take that much critical thinking to see beyond the drearily-predictable upcoming protestations from DRoss and Co.

          And not much more thought to notice the downside of being chained to an ever-sinking pound. (Where – among other things – we have to pay ever more to buy our own oil and gas back!)

      • P Harvey says:

        Unlike engerland an independent Scotland will not hold people hostage
        If they want to go – best of luck to them
        Hundreds more will fill their places

  43. Dr Jim says:

    The thought of rich English business folk leaving Scotland is too much for the political elite to bear, God forbid those folk would be replaced by rich Belgium or French or Scandinavian folk with better understanding and experience of values and business from their own countries

    England costs Scotland more than just money, they are a cause of mental anxiety stress and worry over what the hell they’re going to do to us next
    Nobody in Scotland is ever going to be convinced by the notion that one day they’re all going to be millionaires if they just vote red or blue Tory and be filled with aspirational greatness, they just want to live normally and not be under constant financial strain or being harassed 24 hours a day with Englands rolling media depression craftily renamed as news

    Scotland is a target of aggression and threat of war constantly because of Englands involvement in making money from war while parking their most destructive instruments of death dealing destruction right on the edge of the most populated part of our country, for goodness sake, they drive the stuff from England through the night right through the centre of Glasgow crossing the Kingston Bridge, why wait till night time? why not in the day to hold up traffic so everybody can see plainly what they’re doing? out of sight out of mind, is that it? or maybe it’s better if there’s a horrible accident we’ll just all die in our sleep so can’t blame them?
    They can’t bring the stuff on a boat by sea because if that’s attacked or there’s an accident that’s far more expensive to them than people

    Scotland pays more per head of our population than any nation our size in the world for defence, not defence of Scotland, defence of England, anybody heard Russia or North Korea or any other country threatening to fire nuclear weapons at Ireland lately? of course not
    England doesn’t have a defence policy, it has an offence policy which makes them and by association Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland targets
    Those not voting for Scotlands independence are agreeing to Scotland continuing to be Englands diversional target
    England must not be allowed to say we’re 4 great nations one minute while parking their nuclear weapons in our country then saying we’re one nation the next which gives them an excuse to do it, are the powers of the treasury parked here? I don’t think so, they take our money down to England then return the favour by dumping their shit on us

    What kind of people do this? well people who don’t give a F**k about other people I’d say

    Opponents of Scottish independence will say Oh but all you Scots are anti English, well during the second world war it was all fine and even encouraged to dislike out loud what the bad people in Germany or Japan were doing, but when England does it well it’s all in the national interest isn’t it, but it’s not in Scotlands Effin national interest is it?

    John Wick wanted his car back, I want my country back and I’m just as pissed as him

  44. jfngw says:

    Labour seems to have gone full British Nationalist, even the national anthem to start the conference.

    Then you see Labour supporters tweeting we shouldn’t erect borders as Glasgow has so much in common with Liverpool. When it’s pointed out Liverpool has much in common with EU cities the replies are effectively, but they are foreigners. Tells you so much about modern Labour, anti-EU, anti-foreigner, further to the right than some previous Tory administrations.

    The other conclusion is we should tie ourselves to England’s political choices because we are the same, even when we are making politically different choices. They know what’s best for us.

    The funniest tweets are those claiming they are not working with the Tories in councils around Scotland, they think are both blind and stupid.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:


      “Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle … These are *my* people”

      says the person from Liverpool.


      “Montrose/Machynlleth, Livingstone/Lampeter, Nairn/Nant Peris”


    • Statgeek says:

      I defy any British nationalist from a working class urban community to spend a day in the South of England with a Scottish accent, spending Scottish money, and not see the Scottish point of view.

      “That’s what they’re like though.”

      “So you put up with it if you want, we’re leaving.”

      • Welsh_Siôn says:

        *Spending* Scottish money, @statgeek?

        “Attempting to spend” more like. How many times have your compatriots have had their Scottish tenners refused for being ‘funny money’? How many times have my compatriots been refused for writing cheques in Cymraeg?

        Funny old ‘union’ of equals, ain’t it?

        • Dr Jim says:

          I’m old enough to remember travelling to England when you only got 19,6d for a Scottish £1 and many shopkeepers even refusing it altogether, we were foreigners then, what’s wrong with being foreigners now
          Some folk from other foreign countries have Dollars and Euros and all sorts of money, some are different colours and speak different languages too
          Perhaps England, the one language country doesn’t care for us multi lingual nations

          I’m amazed you Welsh speaking folks haven’t lost the plot with these folk already
          Do they think of you Plaid guys differently to us Scots?

          • Welsh_Siôn says:

            Etymology Corner

            Welsh < Anglo-Saxon 'Wealas.' That is, 'the foreigners, the Romanised ones, the slaves'
            Cymry < Brythonic Celtic 'Combrogones, Combrogi' That is, 'people from the same area, compatriots'

            Nuff sed.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Why doesn’t she just demand the return of Ireland or America, weren’t those folk owned by England once, has she nothing in common with them now that they’re independent, should Germany not have a border with France or Spain with Portugal or any *country* with anybody else
      This English style nationalism for ownership of others must go unnoticed in her thick head, England owns Scotland so we’re all the same, Jeez! read a history book, or maybe one on geography

      The woman’s an idiot wherever she comes from

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      Leeds these are MY people….

      Labour council in 2021 the Council was fined £95,000 by the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) after it sent confidential and sensitive information about a child in care to the wrong recipient. Commenting on Leeds and other authorities who had made similar data protection breaches, the ICO said “It would be far too easy to consider these breaches as simple human error. The reality is that they are caused by councils treating sensitive personal data in the same routine way they would deal with more general correspondence. Far too often in these cases, the councils do not appear to have acknowledged that the data they are handling is about real people, and often the more vulnerable members of society”…..

      Manchester these are MY people ….

      14 April 2010, the BBC reported that Labour council leader Richard Leese had stood down temporarily from his post as leader of Manchester City Council after having been arrested on suspicion of the common assault of his 16-year-old stepdaughter. He was released after accepting a police caution and admitting striking his stepdaughter across the face….

      7 March 2017, it was reported that City Centre councillor Kevin Peel had been suspended from the Manchester Labour group after reports of bullying…..

      On 12 February 2019 erupted after Manchester Council announced it was consulting the public on a new Public Spare Protection Order which, among other things, targeted ‘aggressive’ begging and rough sleepers who pitch tents or sleep in doorways……

      On 22 June 2020, Manchester Council’s executive member for Finance and Human Resources was suspended by the Labour group, after allegations of sexual abuse were made against him ……

      What about ROTHERHAM council also Labour controlled are they too HER people… with the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal where it was noted that “the failure to address the abuse was attributed to a combination of factors revolving around race, class, religion, and gender—contemptuous and sexist attitudes toward the mostly working-class victims; lack of a child-centred focus; a desire to protect the town’s reputation; and lack of training and resources” …it was noted also that “”The Rotherham political class is male, male, male.” In May 2014 there were 63 elected members on Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council: 57 Labour, four Conservatives, one UKIP and one Independent. The elections in August that year saw a swing to UKIP: 49 Labour, 10 UKIP, 2 Conservatives and 2 Independents”…..

      During a hearing in September 2014 to discuss Rotherham, the committee chair, Labour MP Keith Vaz, told Crompton that the committee was shocked by the evidence, and that it held South Yorkshire Police responsible. Asked about an incident in which a 13-year-old found in a flat with a group of men was arrested for being drunk and disorderly, Crompton said it would be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission…..Keith Vaz was subsequently suspended from the Labour party after a scandal (one of many he was involved in) was published…..he then retired from politics…..

      Soooooooo as both Leeds and Manchester, and Newcastle too, are Labour controlled councils one also has to ask ‘Are Tory controlled councils and indeed areas that have Tory MP’s and indeed some of the People in the England who voted Tory in 2019 also HER people and indeed thus tis expected for Scots to also state these are MY people…..when clearly politically they and we are POLES apart……….

      A partisan point by her (and her dad LORD McConnell tweeted this too) that falls short when one considers the scandals associated with the Labour councils……and historical behaviour that surely any decent person would NOT want to be associated with…..and as YOU say jfngw……that’s before we even start on Sarwar colluding with Tories in councils here in Scotland….

      Way to go………NOT.

      Is this ever going to stop…NO….but then neither are we….at exposing their drivel for what it is…..hypocrisy and British Nationalism…..on steroids.

  45. Bob Lamont says:

    There’s an “O” missing in “LauraFMcConnell”…
    It’s such a preposterous comment on so many levels – “Liverpool, Leeds, Leeds, Newcastle…” are not NATION, Scotland was and is.

    Laura’s reference to “…from a working class urban community..” intrigued me, and in a follow up Tweet from FO she explained her perspective thus –
    “Urban areas of Scotland. I’ve nothing in common with the Presbyterian Pearl clutchers of Perthshire or the fox hunting farmers of the rural areas. “Scottish nationalism” suggests a part of the island that was always at war with each other suddenly is United- I’ll crack the jokes”
    Now since “LauraFO” (@ScottishLabour| @ScotCoopParty| @CubaSolidarity| etc) allegedly lives in Edinburgh, she will know all too well she’s gaslighting her audience, so why is she doing it ?
    Potential vacancy at HMS James Cook ?

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      Half-way there altready, @Bob.

      From LinkedIN:


      I am a teacher, writer, keynote speaker, radio presenter, and activist based in Edinburgh. You can find links to my portfolio and details of my speaking engagements, including links to videos, on my website at
      My radio show, ‘Representation Matters’ airs every Saturday at 12:10 on Teacher Hug Radio. You can listen in online at or download the free apps from the Apple or Android store.

      • jfngw says:

        Also she hates nationalism, thank goodness the Labour party aren’t nationalistic.

        • Welsh_Siôn says:

          The red, white and blue flag

          Then raise us up the red, white and blue.
          Within its shade, we’ll serve it true.
          Though Nats may flinch and Seps may sneer,
          We’ll keep this old rag flying here.


          With acknowledgements and apologies to Jim Connel and to other proper Socialists.

        • Welsh_Siôn says:

          Yes, I know true Welshies wouldn’t sing this anyway.

          But, by God, the *quality* of singing that dirge in that clip! Absolutely dreadful.

          We would lift the roof with Land of my Fathers with half that amount of people present.


        • Tory conference?

          Ed Milliband was the first to go all Tory union jackery for the conference.

        • Seriously, nothing says ‘Red Tories’ more than this video.

      • Bob Lamont says:

        ‘keynote speaker’ 🤣

      • grizebard says:

        That website is blank, just a message saying {ahem} “coming soon”.

        Evidently another class warrior with great ambitions and a very warped sense of history and geography. Living in the past, and a past that never even existed.

        Happily finding common ground with Red Tories who now feature Union Rags as standard background to their presentations and start off proceedings with a bout of patriotic BritNat singing. I wonder if she lustily joined in…?

  46. bringiton says:

    This woman clearly conflates supporters of the Great British Labour party in Scotland with working class people.
    Most working class people in Scotland do not associate with the xenophobic isolation espoused by the Great British Labour party’s support of Brexit.
    Scotland is not England despite the Anglo centric views of some politicians who arrogantly assume that it is.

  47. Dr Jim says:

    Maybe all these working class towns and regions of England should get their own Kings like they used to have and they can all fight it out to see which one has the overall right to be by the grace of God King of all England, and he can then appoint eh Oops! they already did it that way some generations ago

    Is it the King thing? the God thing? the appointed (elected) government thing?

    And the answer of course is the Scots the immigrants the poor the old and the infirm
    Covid did for a couple of hundred thousand of the old the infirm and the poor, really it’s just a case now of let our Scots people go and England will have it’s clear destination, a strong healthy race of, Oops I did it again

  48. Dr Jim says:

    I see Anas Sarwar has apologised for having an anti Irish anti Catholic sectarian bigot of a councilor on his team but won’t replace him with a person who’s not all those things, but he is sorry for the *mistake*

    Now that’s really redefining the meaning of the word *mistake*

  49. So, that’s the budget made us all poorer. Except if you are rich, then your tax cut will cover this and the cost of all other goods driven up by the pound’s crash.

    Plunge in sterling leaves drivers paying £6 more for tank of petrol, says AA

    Seriously folks, Brengland is incapable of running itself. All it’s good at doing its ruining it’s economy, kicking out furriners and waving flags.

    • Golfnut says:

      The pound crashing would have made lots of money for those betting on it doing just that. Exactly the same people making a killing now are the same people who bet on the pound crashing because of brexit and you don’t need to look to hard to find them and who they support.

    • grizebard says:

      Once people come to believe that Brexit was The (new) Great Leap Forward, clearly any further kind of wild financial havoc is not only possible, but predictably likely…

    • Yup, Farage and co love to see the pound crash; hence him praising the budget and effects. People didn’t UKIP really loved British symbols like the £ did they? They just used it as the symbol of UKIP to fool the English electorate.

      The UK Is Really Trading Like an Emerging Market Right Now

      That’s yields on UK gilts rising at the same time that sterling is crashing down to earth.

      Such a move — which tends to be associated with emerging-market crises — comes as Chancellor of the Exchequer Kwasi Kwarteng unveils the government’s plans to stimulate the economy with tax cuts and spending. The proposal has set off a wave of concern about the sustainability of the country’s ballooning public debt, including worries that it might struggle to attract external capital to help fund its deficit.

      “It is extremely unusual for a developed market currency to weaken at the same time as yields are rising sharply,” wrote George Saravelos, Deutsche Bank AG strategist, in a note to clients. “But, this is exactly what has happened since the new Chancellor’s announcement. We worry that investor confidence in the UK’s external sustainability is being eroded fast.”

      Not just him, but everyone with any understand of economics is saying this.

      Time to vote for independence and become a developed country again.

  50. Hamish100 says:

    I take it if all those rich scotch Brit nats leave for England, Switzerland (some there already), isle of Mone, sorry Man it means they lose their franchise. Some of 2 homes. So they lose 2 votes!!!

    Empty homes cause by the tax exiles give over to the homeless. Those returning when they need the Scottish NHS pay for it. No free prescriptions, free travel and the rest.

  51. James Mills says:

    Al Jezeera currently running an expose of The Labour Party and how it undermined ( from within ) its own leader , Jeremy Corbyn , before and during the last General Election ( from 2015-20 ).
    Will Starmer or Sarwar be attending any Fringe meetings to discuss this backstabbing within The People’s party , which included false charges of homophobia and anti-Semitism against Corbyn supporters ?

    • Dr Jim says:

      Indeed, when Jermey Corbyn nicked a load of SNP policies his own party went nuts branding him all sorts behind his back to the media even though it added thousands of members to their cause, and yet now Keir Starmer is not only doing the same thing, he’s even nicking SNP slogans
      Maybe old Jeremy was just too real Labour for the real LabTorys

  52. Dr Jim says:

    Perhaps every person owning lands of hundreds and thousands of acres that isn’t productive or working farmland should be taxed in a very different way

    It’s not only Russian oligarchs and Arab Princes who own lands in Scotland that don’t do anything with them, there are lots of *gentlemen farmers* and *Golf resort* owners too, oh and some eh royal folk that just use Scotland as their own private Butlins, how much land does anybody really need?

    That might release some nice areas to build houses for our future independent countries growth when those folk leave to avoid paying up

  53. Hamish100 says:

    I think the need for land reform in Scotland is a no brainer. One area where I think the SNP are far too tame.

  54. Statgeek says:

    Ooh! I just had a conspiracy thought.

    The Tories, facing electoral wilderness anyway, decide to hand Labour a majority, and remove the chance of a hung Parliament, where Lab might need SNP C&S.

    If that’s the case, snap election ahead of the date next year for Indyref2, so the Tories can leave Labour with the problem, and the blame.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      Pray enlighten me as to C&S, Statgeek.

      And why, just like MSM, are you omitting PC? 😉

      • Statgeek says:

        Confidence & Supply – Not quite a coalition, but bill by bill support. Maybe akin to what the Tory and DUP had with Theresa May, but there’s no bung they can throw the SNP, other than Indyref, and that’ll presumably be up front, so it’s not very realistic.

        Why not PC? Simply cos of the numbers. 4-5 MPs don’t deliver a majority that would please Con or Lab. 50+ might.

        • Dr Jim says:

          One whiff of any SNP involvement in Englands parliament and the Tories win again
          It’s their *Trump* card

          Pun and anti Scottish sentiment intended

          • Statgeek says:

            So the obvious double is:

            “English voters consistently want to shut Scots out of the Union.”

            As the easy reason for Indyref2. That’ll do.

  55. Capella says:

    • Mick Lynch tongue tied when challenged on ‘God Save the King’ opening Conference, and Monarchists in general.
      Not his thing, but he ‘doesn’t mind’ others bowing and scraping to the Firm.

      He knows that many of his ‘members’ are not dyed in the wool ‘Socialists’, like wot he purports to be.
      He voted for Brexit, ‘cos he is anti-Europe, yet he knows that English Isolationism is killing the English economy.
      His ‘members’ are and will suffer for his Commie cause, the destruction of capitalism and the Hierarchy, because of Brexit…
      He hates Europe.
      Lynch and Truss; twa fleas of the same mangy Them and Us Dug.
      How much does he pull in as head honcho?

      • Capella says:

        I want Keir Starmer to empathise with working people’s problems, not triangulate off Mail & Telegraph opinion polls on what mythical middle England want. He should go for the rent controls and non-eviction of the Scottish Govt. We’re surrounded by Union Jacks

        I don’t how you get to “his members will suffer for his commie cause” from the quote above, Jack. He’s citing Scottish Government policy and I don’t think anyone has yet accused Nicola Sturgeon of being a “commie” though give her detractors time!

        As for his pay – I would expect him to gt the negotiated rate for the job as any self-respecting Trade Union leader would. In his case, he deserves it.

        • You are selective in your quote, Capella.
          He is on record as having voted for Brexit, he declares himself a Socialist, republican, but doesn’t mind others genuflecting to their betters.
          A man for all people.
          He is a many headed hydra.
          He was clearly flustered when trying to make a case for a monarchy.
          I clearly touched a nerve, Capella. My bad,
          Thatcher Scargill…Truss Lynch. Them and Us…both get big cars and index linked six figure wages…
          while tens of millions suffer.

  56. Welsh_Siôn says:

    I haven’t had a listen, but does anyone else wish to avail themselves of this on LinkedIN:


    Blair McDougall explains how the Better Together Campaign won the #indyref back in 2014. Listen here:

    Apparently, it’s under a Spotify title – ‘100 Campaigns that Changed the World’

    Yes, I know, I know but … may give us a bit more of insight into how Project Fear thought (and think).

    • Dr Jim says:

      Labours Alistair Campbell has another interesting story on how the 2014 referendum actually went down and it had zip all to do with Blair McDougall and his wee Better together club

      It’ll all no doubt come out in a few years time, or maybe a lot sooner after Nicola Sturgeon wins the next one

  57. Capella says:

    So if City traders knew the pound would tank surely the world’s cleverest Chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, must have known. It’s still falling BTW.

    Liz Truss backers in City ‘made small fortunes shorting the pound’, report claims

    The pound slumped to near parity with the US dollar last week, after Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng unleashed a budget which would cut taxes for the super-rich by massively increasing public borrowing.

    The UK currency was worth just $1.09 following the announcement – its lowest level in decades.

    An anonymous source quoted in the Sunday Times told the paper they had attended a dinner with hedge-fund managers who were said to have won big betting against the pound last week.

    They were quoted as saying: “They were all supporters of Truss and every one of them was shorting the pound.”

    The paper added: “Several made small fortunes on Friday betting against the currency.”

    The process is called shorting and allows traders to make “bets” that the value of an asset will fall, whereas more conventional trading is effectively a bet the value will rise.

  58. Capella says:

    Buck House has never heard of the internet apparently. Get that clip of Charles affirming the Claim of Right viral.

    Broadcasters row with royal family over control of footage of the Queen’s memorial events

    According to reports, the royal household has said broadcasters can keep 12 minutes of footage from the funeral, 12 minutes from the Windsor Castle committal service and just a few minutes from each of the vigils in Westminster Hall and St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh.

    A critical issue raised in the row is the monarchy’s claim that it can veto the use of video from King Charles’s accession council, with concerns that footage of the King appearing annoyed by a pen on his desk will be banned from future use.
    Broadcasters have been told they will only be allowed up to 12 minutes of video from the event.

  59. ‘UN’ troops marching across London Bridge in the middle of the night? What’s that about ,Duggers?
    Tanks filmed in East Anglia?
    Truss getting ready for the Uprising?

  60. The 90% are getting poorer every minute.

    Pound hits record low after tax cut plans

  61. Och lol. This would be funny if it wasn’t really serious too.

    Letters of no confidence in Liz Truss ‘already being put in’, says Tory MP

    LETTERS of no confidence in Liz Truss are already coming in amid fears she will “crash the economy”, a source has suggested.

    A former Tory minister MP has told Sky News the new Prime Minister is “f*****” and the party are already looking to bring her down following Friday’s mini-budget.

    The MP said: “They are already putting letters in as think she will crash the economy. The tax cuts don’t matter as all noise anyway – mainly reversing back to the status quo this year.

    “The issue is government fiscal policy is opposite to Bank of England monetary policy – so they are fighting each other. What Kwasi [Kwarteng] gives, the Bank takes away.”

  62. James Mills says:

    Does ANYONE still believe that the Tories are the party of business and good financial management ?
    They claim that every time they take over from a Labour Government that the country is always more in debt .
    Well , now we have had David Cameron’s Tory Government , Theresa May’s , Boris Johnson’s and now the robot Truss and each time we have sunk deeper and deeper into a quagmire of debt – £2.3 trillion , which is double what it was back when David Cameron entered No 10 .
    Three cheers for the Tories !

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      James they rely on people being thick…

      They also rely on THEIR media presenting all they do as a positive vision for Britain.

      They also rely on the wealthy to donate to their party in order for them, the wealthy, to then reap the benefits that were given to them via things like say the so called mini budget last week…and much other benefits they saw in the past too via the Tory party (though Labour trying to catch up and trying to ‘Get in on THAT action too’ as a party FOR business…nudge nudge wink wink)

      They also rely on labour emulating them in focusing on NON significant trivia …like their uber display of the BritNat flag…which as a strategy does little to HELP anyone at this time of crisis….

      They also rely on all branch offices doing their job to keep the respective natives oblivious to the respective HQ’s uselessness while blaming the respective devolved governments for ALL the woes they, as citizens, suffer in that respective country i.e. Scotland, Wales and NI. So Labour , Tories and Lib Dems in Scotland attack the Scottish government . The Tories in Wales attack the Welsh government. …..and in NI the Tory’s little helpers the DUP attack Sinn Fein while promoting Britain.

      “party of business and good financial management”…….who cares it seems….the Brexit TRUE plan is now enfolding….hence why Farage is delighted….and t’others who are similar to him.

      I end with expletives….not written…but you get the drift……this CANNOT be sustained as something acceptable and also tolerated by the majority of people in Scotland……SURELY.

    • I seem to recall the Fat Owl as Foreign Secretary during Brexit when he was insulting every nation on the planet summing up his view of business and financial management, blurting the aside ‘f**k business’.
      England is being run by mad people now.

  63. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    A BLUEprint for the future of the UK being drawn up by former prime minister Gordon Brown will be both a ‘safer’ alternative to Scottish independence, the Labour conference will be told.

    Emphasis on the BLUE……

    With the provisos :

    This time they actually get elected as next government. (though even that will not guarantee they fulfil any of his Blueprint (propaganda report to keep Jockland).
    This time they actually KEEP a pledge/promise/vow made to Scots.
    Safer alternative ?…..what guarantee that something can be safer ? What do they mean by safer as in even if, say another pandemic or seismic change occurs, they as a government will ensure it will not negatively impact Scotland and it’s economy?
    Will this ‘safer alternative’ be acceptable to English voters ?
    If it is a BLUEprint for the future of the UK why only highlight tis a ‘safer alternative’ to Scottish independence…..when if blueprint is for UK surely it should also be ‘safer alternative’ too for all the UK….Hmm…something smells…again.

    How can they have the brass neck to produce this when most of what they will present will be a duplicated version of what they promised in 2014 which was a campaign that promoted that Scotland would be Better Together within the UK….and look how that has turned out.

    1) We did NOT get what Brown PROMISED via his interventions broadcast on all TV channels near you.
    2) We did not get what they assumed would be a Labour Government in 2015 indeed Labour were wiped out in Scotland and left with only 1 MP.
    3) The majority of doomsday scenarios they promoted as unfolding should we vote YES actually happened via voting NO….higher food prices, higher energy prices, OUT of the EU, Jobs NOT secure but lost in Scotland, devolution actually at RISK, where those WE elected as a Scottish government were shut out of Brexit negotiations and thus given NO options to have any input or opportunity to view Brexit agreement or indeed any power/ability to veto any of the agreed decisions etc etc

    We also have the likes of Lisa Nandy promoting that “Nationalism is a regressive ideology” while she and her party at their conference are outdoing the NF in promoting British nationalism uber alles….with the flag that is used and abused to represent that nationalism being displayed EVERYWHERE at their conference….for the benefit of those select voters who they presume worship it and what it (falsely) represents….and what they hope will result in winning them THEIR votes in the next GE.

    You would have to be a special kind of thick to fall for ANY of this… in either believing their sincerity in their British Nationalism (as they are simply duplicating what they think is a winning formula found by the Tories in ‘over’ promoting their British nationalism in public) or indeed believing that they WANT to find a way to make it better for Scotland (like the Tories they know what Scotland is worth to their Britain hence their desperation to try and appease us with Brown the Has Been’s BLUEprint ….that is most likely a rehash of the same old guff he produced in 2014 that will fall at the first hurdle and never be actually what is presented …but will include MORE in the “small print” that will retract much of the main text of the BLUEprint (very BLUE print I am sure to emulate much of the current Tory political dogma)……….

    Only labour would command that people in their Britain should be MORE patriotic for Britain at a time when it’s economy and politics are being flushed down the proverbial pan… while simultanously having the gall to condemn anyone in Scotland who sought a REAL alternative from this and thus preferred independence to a BritNat ideology in a declining BritNat country ….and then they also FAIL to see the distinctions…. indeed they paint one as a “regressive idealogy” (independence) while THEIR one is apparently (conveniently) a progressive patriotism” (British nationalism)….however it surely tells us all who they are…as in STILL are…and with the likes of Starmer will STILL be in the future.

    They need to win the English votes to win a GE….they only need Scotland to vote NO to keep Scotland’s resources ,including in the future, it’s renewable energy capacity for their UK……simples.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Staying with Englands nationalism is safer than choosing *dangerous*? Scottish nationalism is the implication here
      In Italy right now a new party the British media has described as *far right* has won the general election yet their policies in the main are almost exactly the same as the Tories in Britain but the media don’t refer to the Tories as *far right*

      If folk aren’t wondering why the British media keep insisting on forcing the status quo of the same two English political parties on us all, they should be, other countries around the word have all sorts of politics ever changing and no one really is that bothered about it, it’s a perfectly natural event when new and different people are elected, but in Britain there’s the stimulation of panic by the media if one of the two English parties look like they’re in trouble

      This obsession by the British media that Britain can’t survive unless Tory or at least Labour is running it has to be looked at seriously as to why they do this, and when it comes to Scotland that same media attempt to cause nation wide panic at the prospect of Scotland leaving the English to their own disasters insisting that Scotland would be *even*worse if we dared to do such a horrendous thing, and that’s the point isn’t it, *even worse* the point being we must all go down together no matter what England does to the rest of us, we must suffer for Englands choices, we must endure governments that England chooses, we must be patriotic towards a regime that’s destroying us or we’re nasty nationalists and not good nationalists like the English

      Oh and Gordon Brown is just a two bit liar and if nobody knows this by now they’ve had their head in a box for a generation

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Exactly ….very well and succinctly said Dr Jim.

      • grizebard says:

        The English two-party system is a direct product of FPTP elections. It forces internal coalitions between factions as great as between different parties, differences that are papered-over and ignored by the media unless they become too great to hide. Yet will either of these panjandrums ever countenance electoral reform, whatever dancing around the edges of the issue some parts of Labour in particular sometimes indulge themselves in? (While these days the rest are busying themselves with more important matters like public flag-waving.) No. Things are getting worse, not better. There is no realistic prospect whatever of any serious reform of the Buggins Cartel because it can’t afford to let anyone else get a look-in, no matter how bad things get.

        Waiting for the Next Coming of Labour to sort out the looming UKnotOK meltdown is a hiding to nothing. Only disappointment awaits. Time to run things for ourselves. That’s the only way we will ever get anything important changed for the better.

  64. Capella says:

    Good thread on the limits of “growth” as spelt out by Donella Meadows decades ago.
    Growth of what, and why?
    And for whom?
    And how long can it last?
    And what’s the cost to the planet?
    And how much is enough?

    • dakk says:

      Sustainable growth was the best we may have been able to foster.That looks increasingly a forlorn hope with the lurching to the right in seemingly full swing.

  65. Alex Clark says:

    What the hell has happened to “stong and stable”? Was that all a lie and the Tories weren’t a safe pair of hands after all?

    It sure looks that way and the total collapse in the value of the £ to the $ is pretty bad news for inflation in general and energy prices here in the UK, the $ being the International reserve currency even goods we buy from China will be mainly paid for in $.

    The world market price for oil and gas is of course set in dollars and in the last 3 months the oil price has fallen from $110/barrel to $80 but our petrol prices have fallen nowhere near as fast because we have to buy in $ and the £ has fallen just as fast in value as the oil price has.

    The really bad news though for people with mortgages or businesses with debt or an overdraft if that I think the expectation if for interest rates to shoot up even faster and higher than first thought.

    The idiots in charge though are continuing to plan for even more borrowing to fund their giveaways to the rich and yesterday I read that they are planning to double the defence budget for next year to over £100 billion and are spending £52 billion more than initially planned because of the war in Ukraine.

    This is money that won’t come anywhere near Scotland in terms of Barnett consequentials because Defence is reserved and Westmin ster are spending our share of that extra money “on our behalf”. They will of course add that spend into next years GERS figures as well as “our share” of all the additional interest payments on the debt they are racking up.

    “Better Together” is a fecking joke that they won’t dare use the next time..

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      Indeed Alex….

      ““Better Together” is a fecking joke that they won’t dare use the next time..”

      And surely they won’t go with ‘Safer alternative” either….LOL

    • Statgeek says:

      “the £ has fallen just as fast in value as the oil price has.”

      Almost as if the value of the £ is tied to the value of oil…makes you wonder what an Indyref and a pledge to dump the £ would see. Collapse? New strengthening?

      No, I’m not Kwasi or Liz, and don’t want to destroy economies, but if the £ is so intrinsically linked to oil prices, it’s another argument they can forget come the debates about Scotland not relying on the oil.

    • James Mills says:

      ”Doubling Defence spending ” …. I wonder who benefits from that ? Tory donors among the warmongers… sorry Defence ( sic ) contractors !

  66. davetewart says:

    The pound is even falling in value compared to the Russian Ruble, you know the Ruble that has the bestest measures against it to limit the War.
    Is the fall in the Gold value due to the BoE selling? Who would know.

  67. dakk says:

    The level of disdain the UK state has for its glaikit electorate has reached new lows with the current cabal.

    Truss with her “I’m prepared to be unpopular” is saying I’m going to make a fortune out of crashing your economy, but I don’t care. I’ll be away with it all in a couple years anyway.

  68. By accident rather than intent , I caught Rachel Reeves speech.
    Firstly, we are no longer the @UK’; Labour exists in a Never Never Land called ‘Britain’, now.
    Her speech was littered with ‘Britain’ and ‘British’.
    King Spaniel the Turd’s United Kingdom is no more, apparently.
    Sarwar got a seat in the front row, as did Mark Drakeford.
    Rachel Reeves will transform ‘British’ manufacturing , ahem, greenly.
    She painted a picture of shovels and cranes, plumbers, electricians and joiners beavering away greenly, and battery factories and wind turbine blades, as Britain boomed under New New Labour.
    Biddish Jobs For Biddish Workers, and we would be growing and buying more of our own food.
    I say ‘our’, but Rachel meant England Wales and Norn Irn.
    When she went off on a list of towns and cities which will be digging ditches and turning out windfarm blades, Belfast got a mention, and Port Talbot; the rest of the boom towns were in England.
    Nothing in Scotland.
    Oh, we did get a mention; once.
    Why are blades in Scottish wind turbines manufactured thousands of miles away?
    The rest of her speech was mainly about South ‘Britain’.
    Nurses, doctors, district nurses, health care, firefighters, teachers, business rates….

    Sarwr got a front row seat and clapped enthusiastically and stood to ovation at the right cues, as an obedient little Labour colonial poodle is expected to do.
    Drakefford got a name check from the Green Chancellor in Waiting for the sterling work he is doing in Wales.
    Sarwar got nought from the platform.
    It was deliberate of course.
    Labour is dead in Scotland.
    We are already on the road to green energy sustainability in Scotland.
    They have given up even trying to include us in the GSTK Butcher’s Apron ‘Britain’.
    They know when they’ve been beat.
    On Europe, Reeves waffled about working closer with ‘our European allies’.
    Aye, richt.
    She mentioned Brexit, but thinks she got away with it.
    The Red Wall racist xenophobes working class zeros are listening.

  69. Alex Clark says:

    This is the man in charge of spending your tax money as he sees fit.

    • Jack Collatin says:

      This from the Irish Times back in Indyref1 days.
      “Scottish banks, which print their own sterling banknotes, would not be able to do so “unless they had a sterling note” issued by the Bank of England in their vaults to stand behind it.

      Rejecting charges of bullying, Mr Osborne said no British government could recommend to its citizens after a Scottish departure that they should be responsible for a country that has left them.

      Mr Osborne said Scottish finance minister John Swinney had claimed that Scotland could have complete control over its taxes, spending and interest rates and yet be part of a sterling currency union. “Look at the euro,” said the chancellor.

      The top official in the UK treasury, Sir Nicholas Macpherson, has stood by his decision to release publicly his advice to the chancellor that Scotland could not have rights to sterling.

      Describing himself as someone who is happier being “a faceless bureaucrat”, Mr Macpherson said publishing his advice – which infuriated Mr Salmond – was “the right thing to do”.

      He told MPs it had been “incredibly important” that people “would not be in any doubt” that there had been no disagreement between Mr Osborne and the treasury.”

      There will be no ‘currency union’ nonsense this time.
      One of Salmond’s big mistakes.
      Scotland could not have rights to sterling, an English civil servant declares?
      You can keep your English pound, Kerching.

      • Golfnut says:

        An awful lot in those statements designed to misinform and mislead Jack, even a former Governor of the BOE disagreed with the Treasury and the Chancellor.

  70. Tory flagship policy is a massive run on the pound by acting directly against the BoE and all rational economic theory.

    Bank of England set to make emergency statement after pound plummets

    THE Bank of England is considering making an emergency statement this afternoon after the pound plummeted to its lowest ever level against the US dollar, it is understood.

    The pound’s plunge has sparked speculation that the Bank of England may be forced to hike interest rates again in an emergency move to stem the run on sterling.

    Market experts said the Bank may need to increase rates by as much as one percentage point to 3.25%.

    That interest rate rise will hit mortgages hard unless people are lucky enough to have secured a fixed rate deal relatively recently. So, again, loads of folk get poorer apart from the rich who are not in debt…

    This seems to me to be a cabal of Tories going through the pockets of the public as quickly as they can before the government collapses and an election is forced, with Labour winning and being left to deal with the mess, as others have suggested.

    • They are plundering the coffers before escaping to Non Exec backhanders in oil companies, s_s.
      They want to lose the next GE.

      • Alex Clark says:

        Yes, I’m going to go along with that theory. They know their time is up and losing the next election looks more and more likely.

        Leave Labour or a Labour coalition government with a massive debt problem at high interest rates and grab what you can for you and your mates now before the game is up and they will step right back in after just 4 or 5 years as the opposition.

        I doubt Scotland or Independence has even entered any of the Unionist party’s minds, that is a big error and they will surely be even worse off without Scotland’s Oil and renewable resources to plunder in the years to come.

  71. Alex Clark says:

  72. Dr Jim says:

    Economic growth, sustainable growth, strong and stable economy, safe growth
    The Tories like Labour know perfectly well that Mr and Mrs Average don’t have a Scooby doo what any of that speak means so they repeat it ad nauseum because it sounds like they know what they’re talking about and the population don’t want to appear stupid out of self pride that they are in fact stupid so the poor soul voters out there nod their donkey heads

    Now I certainly don’t mean to disparage ordinary voters when I call them stupid, because in their own individual work environment they are probably more clever and more qualified to natter on about that to any politician who again wouldn’t have a Scooby what they’re on about, no, what I mean is these charlatans of politics developed their own big themselves up language about their work deliberately so that ordinary people won’t understand it, and why should they after all because the public aren’t politicians, but those people who represent us the public should speak the language of the people they represent, it’s what they’re bloody very well paid for

    So instead of trying to bamboozle Joe Public with political IT speak, speak the language of the people so they can understand
    Now you would think that would be a reasonable request, but apparently it’s not, and it’s not because most politicians don’t understand what sustainable growth or any of these other slogans they trot out for their own self aggrandisement

    Sustainable growth or any kind of growth means 10 different things to 10 different economists with each one of those economists explaining it 10 different ways and then 20 different ways of achieving it

    So when the politician trot this nonsense out in the middle of their sentences switch your head off because it means absolutely nothing unless they follow up by the route map of spending and tax raising they prefer to achieving such a result, this is why you will hear the constant opposing of everyone else’s idea with these words

    *But the numbers don’t add up* then that opposition begins all over again with the same stupid language
    Most of the population of these islands can count, we went to school, we’re not idiots but they’re treating us as though we are and we shouldn’t like it or accept it

    So Mr and Mrs Joe and Jean public what they’re doing is they’re F******g* with our heads deliberately, are you just going to keep nodding and proving them right?

  73. In case folk aren’t aware, Phantom Power are crowd funding to produce another video:

    ‘NATION: The Power of Scotland’
    It’s time to turn our attention to home and explore Scotland’s huge potential as an independent nation.

  74. Alex Clark says:

    Kerching has put out an emergency statement in an attempt to “reassure the markets” in it he promises them another statement containing a “medium term fiscal plan” on November 23rd.

    That should go down well then, just watch the £ drop below the value of a $ before the end of the week. A pathetic attempt like this to kick the can down the road for another couple of months by doing nothing will come straight back and bite this shower of incompetents right on the nose.

  75. Seriously, it’s nuts. As noted by davetewart, the £ has fallen heavily against the Russian Ruble; a country spending huge sums on a war it’s losing while suffering heavy global sanctions.

    Not only that, but the £ has also tanked against the Ukrainian Hryvnia; the currency of a country who’s economy has been blown bits, literally:

    We need to get out of the sterling zone asap. It’s the currency of a basket case economy.

  76. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    There’s an awfy lot of Pro UK peeps on Twitter feeling compelled to advise one and all that they are now considering or will actually be leaving Scotland because of tax reasons….

    Not political or selfish you understand…oh No Siree bob…..just letting us know….that this is what they intend to do… between tweeting this intention to one and all….as if we, who are worried about paying energy bills, higher food prices and potentially now for some an increase in mortgage payments, will somehow sympathise with them and empathise at their position as higher earners who want to keep MORE of their money for themselves…..

    Some of them are even telling us how to live on porridge…and helpfully costing it for us too….not stating though how LONG some of us should live on porridge or if it is to be eaten at EACH meal during the day….I guess that is THEIR way of saying for them TAX is the bigger issue…where as for lesser earners tis how we can plan to live off gruel for the foreseeable future…I mean I love porridge but it is just way too obvious a trolling suggestion from them for us to seriously think they give a duck ( replace first letter with an ‘F’) and beggars belief that they think we are so thick to fall for it…..ALL…leaving Scotland ?…of course you are……………….NOT !!…and why use Porridge as THE food example….a tad too obvious in it being Scottish in origin No ?

    I mean it does seem to be that we all have our own concerns but I tend to think that from a comparison point of view their woes on tax may fall on deaf ears… others struggle just now.

    We really are getting down to the bottom , to the dregs of their desperate attempts to save their UK are we not.

    • Capella says:

      Surely this is good news. All these unionists moving down south means fewer NO votes in Scotland. Nicola has ruled out matching Kwasi Kwarteng’s tax cuts:

      The first minister described last Friday’s fiscal event as “morally abhorrent” and “fiscally reckless”.

      The chancellor said his aim was to kickstart a “new era” for the UK economy that would be focused on growth.

      Win win 🙂

      • grizebard says:

        Agreed. Then we’ll get less “trickle down” and more “building up”.

        As for bankers, I would call their bluff too. Cull their bonuses, cap their salaries and let the overpaid parasites among them take a hike if they want. They also won’t be missed. Without the chancers, things will run just as smoothly and much more safely.

    • Pogmothon says:

      As my cousins would say “Dam boy don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out”

  77. Hamish100 says:


    The bbc are to show a live international football match!
    Oops sorry- it’s a friendly!!
    Oops , silly me, it’s an under 21 game
    Oops, it’s not Scotland

    I see more foreign teams including England on so-called bbc scottisland.
    The folk at Pacific quay are a disgrace.
    Cricket anyone?

  78. Hamish100 says:

    Sarwar claims independence is against social justice.Just Scottish Independence, to be clear. All other independence struggles be it Ukraine, India, Pakistan, Ireland etcetera are good.

    Being governed by red and blue tories is not social justice, but is effectively class and race discrimination against the Celtic Nations.

    This from a party that has propagated sectarian divide as a means of gaining votes for the past hundred or so years.

    They would still keep the tories in power in Scotland to ensure Brit Nats/ unionism succeeds.
    They surrendered their red flag and social democracy a long time ago.

    • grizebard says:

      The deadly curse of ingrained self-entitlement. One symptom being a massive lack of self-awareness. (Something that’s increasingly visible to everyone else.) It’s going to continue to deplete them politically, since it seems there is no cure and nobody is even looking for one.

  79. James Mills says:

    Ian Murray has a future as a stand-up comedian . Introducing Anas Sarwar at the Labour Unionist Party Conference today he claimed that
    ”Sarwar is the most popular politician in Scotland and is exposing the deplorable record of Nicola Sturgeon every day !” WOW !

    The Kool Aid has been doing the rounds chez Murray . He clearly has lost the plot . It must be the isolation as the only Red Tory MP in Scotland and never having anyone to tell him what day it is , who he is and what planet he is currently inhabiting .

    • grizebard says:

      See my response to Hamish above, which applies just as much here. Life in a (shrinking) rose-tinted bubble. It’s soooo embarrassing. For them, that is, since nobody else in the room likely believes it, or even gives a stuff.

    • Statgeek says:

      Most popular Labour MP in Scotland…maybe. Can never remember if he’s the only one these days.

  80. Golfnut says:

    The pound plummets and interest rates rocket, predictable outcomes which makes what is happening more of a choreographed disaster than incompetent fiscal policy. No individual or party should be allowed to walk away from this without repercussions and I don’t mean losing an election.

  81. James Mills says:

    Kwasi Kwarteng has announced that he will be publishing his plan to kick-start the economy – in November !
    A bit like Eisenhower telling his generals the D-Day plan – on 6 August !

    Did no one think to tell him that BEFORE you announced tax changes and historically high borrowing you might want to tell the country , businesses and the Markets what your PLAN is ?

  82. James Mills says:

    The Labour Unionist Party Conference continues to give the cause of Independence another boost as another Labour Numptie ( I think that’s the technical term ) tells the other numpties that the SNP is similar to the Right-wing party which has just won the Italian election .
    Gabriel Leroy was arguing against electoral reform ( eat your heart out Gordo Broon ) and claimed ( wrongly ) that proportional representation would lead to ”extremist parties like Italian neo-fascists and the SNP ” getting into power .

    Ignorance is not in short supply in the Labour Unionist Party so it is no surprise that Gabriel is not aware of the voting system at Holyrood elections , nor did any
    ”Scottish ” delegate see fit to put the numptie in his place re. FPTP being a major component of the Scottish election .
    And how does he explain the results of UK elections where the SNP completely dominate in Scotland where the FPTP system is used ?

    Ignorance thy name is Labour !

  83. Just published.

    The SNP’s Supreme Court submission on the independence referendum

    • Alex Clark says:

      I’ve read barely half of it and already can see the problems that this SNP submission to the court is going to provide for our learned judges. Next month’s Supreme Court hearing will be an unmissable event.

    • grizebard says:

      Its case hardly starts when it resolutely refutes (London) AG’s cynical assertion that any government in a democracy is perfectly entitled to completely renege on the manifesto by which it was elected. Evidently the present UKGov confuses shamocracy for democracy. A deliberate confusion that indeed it has now crafted into a dark art.

      This small reveal alone justifies our withdrawal from London’s governance, for we are clearly not safe whilst trapped in it.

      • Azel says:

        I think the UK Government hopes the Scottish Government is stupid enough to not even try fulfilling their promises to the electorate: I don’t how else the Scottish Conservatives can get into St Andrew’s House.

      • Pogmothon says:

        No what it does is takes forward the argument that
        ‘no government can be tied by the decisions or policies of it’s predecessors’.
        ‘the current government cannot be tied to anything in it’s election manifesto’.
        And installs it as a president to be referred to and quoted ad’ nausium.

  84. stewartb says:

    Seen much informed support for the Tory tax cuts? Seen much indication of a positive reaction from financial markets? Or from currency markets? Well, there are some who have expressed enthusiasm for what the Tory Chancellor has done!

    We learn of this point of view in the BBC News ’Scotland Business’ page from a few days ago, in an article entitled ‘Mini-budget: ‘How is Scottish business reacting?’ ( )

    ‘Scottish Chambers of Commerce said the string of policy announcements from the chancellor signalled “a bold start”. Director and chief executive Liz Cameron said: “The chancellor’s commitment to pro-growth and pro-enterprise policies will be eagerly welcomed by businesses.

    She then states: “As we look ahead to the Scottish government’s emergency budget, BUSINESSES AND HOUSEHOLDS NOW PLAY THE WAITING GAME to see if the Scottish Government opts to take similar moves.

    “With control of powers such as income tax and land and buildings transaction tax devolved to Scotland, THE EXPECTATION WILL BE FOR SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT TO DELIVER PARITY WITH THE REST OF THE UK.” (my emphasis)

    Given all that has happened since the mini-budget, isn’t it heartening to know that businesses in Scotland are so well served by those with such judgement and insight?

    • I think it would be understandable if the Scottish Government didn’t seek to replicate this:

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Indeed spotted than spiel – “informed support” perhaps but by whom is the question, or was a glass ball or tarot card involved ?

      HMS James Cook has been pretty active of late promoting the “SG under pressure” guff, such as this from yesterday.

      Not just pressure but “renewed” pressure, presumably because everybody ignored Dross’s sorry the BBC’s first attempt.

      I’d hazard a guess if the BBC in Scotland put HMG under any pressure let alone “renewed pressure” to address the thorn of differential power rates still favouring England 30 years later with a completely inverted energy flow to the original concept, half the population would go into shock.

      Because that is all this razzmatazz is about really, don’t talk about the energy crisis between now and when these tax changes come into effect, let’s play “Back to the Future”….

      • davetewart says:

        Their media is pushing yje falling pound is a great boost for exporting our ‘manufactured’ goods.

        This can only be at best in the short term, the manufacturers have to import the raw materials and energy to produce.

        Have a look at BMW’s Mini production, engines are made in Brazil, I think, the dashboards come from Canada and other parts from Europe and China. Over 50% has to be sourced from the UK or Europe to avoid tariffs on export to EU. Remember reading that the Crankshaft had numerous trips from initial machining to finished part to Europe and back, one trip for heat treatment.

        • davetewart says:

          Mini one had a Chrysler sourced engine, latest model has Birmingham made.
          The diesel engines are Austrian as are the electric motors. Batteries are Chinese made as yet.

  85. Hamish100 says:

    Thanks for this.
    Any lawyers able to assist in the interpretation?

    • Dr Jim says:

      Basically the question asked is does the Scottish parliament have the authority to hold a referendum on independence not leading to legal implementation of the result, if the SC says YES then a referendum will happen on the proposed date followed by more wrangling over how to implement that result should it be YES

      The second part being a political question, so the court only has to decide if it’s legal to ask the Scottish people the question and nothing else
      The interventions by the UK government want the court to agree with them that the Scottish government shouldn’t even be allowed to ask the question, because obviously they’re terrified of a positive result leaving them in the position of denying democracy to a nation they insist is a voluntary partner

  86. Alex Clark says:

    I recognise a bit of this from posts here today 🙂

  87. yesindyref2 says:

    The important thing really I think, is this:

    8.1. Taking all of the above matters into account, it is the respectful submission of the Intervener that:

    1. The people of Scotland are ‘a people’ for the purposes of the right to self-determination;

    2. The Scottish people are therefore entitled as a matter of law to protection of their right to determine ‘their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development’;

    3. That right is inalienable and cannot be taken away from the Scottish people; and

    4. Well, basically anything you want

    Despite what the naysayers say, it was not the Lord Advocate’s place to make these arguments, it was outside the competence of her remit as Lord Advocate in the public interest (as opposed to a member of the Scottish Government) – a clear separation of duties.

    And now the UKSC has the choice of saying “OK then”, or:

    1. The people of Scotland are not a people. OR
    2. The Scottish people have no rights to protection under the law to our self-determination, OR
    3). Even if the right existed, it is alienable and can be taken away from the Scottish people.

    Good luck with that.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      The clear separation of duties by the LA of the LA, by the way, was / is neccessary for the reference to be accepted. Otherwise it could indeed have been thrown out.

    • Alex Clark says:

      I haven’t read it properly though I will tomorrow. Tne immediate impression I got though was clearly that the arguement of the SNP is that Scotland is a nation and those living within its boundaries are a “people” with an inalienable right to a claim of self determination.

      I more of less stopped readin g there which was about halfway through the SNP submission as i was already convinced. My view is I can see the Supreme Court ruling that the Scotland Act says we can’t have a referendum under that law but I can;t see any way in which they can avoid not saying that Scotland and the people of Scotland have a right to self-determination.

      Something that is probably quite important no matter what happens next.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Indeed. I think it’s the UKSC are now in a Catch-22.

        Ironically that could mean them having to question their own name: “United Kingdom Supreme Court”. Should they be renamed – and therefore deny their own remit to hear such a case?

        • Azel says:

          They could argue to justify hearing the case that nothing stops them to still act as Scotland’s apex court on its independance, as their neighbours in Middlesex Guildhall do for quite a few former British colonies. Well, nothing but Scotland’s will.

      • grizebard says:

        I can’t see that the SC can (or will) support the UKGov on this one. At least without comprehensively renouncing everything its jurists are sworn to defend. There’s no amount of English exceptionalism that could protect them from the national and international opprobrium that would follow. (Nor indeed make the political problem go away. On the contrary, it would inflame it.)

        The SNP’s case is well constructed, as far as I can see. Not only does it clearly establish that we in Scotland are a people within well-understood boundaries (even cheekily referencing the new king’s reaffirmation of The Claim of Right!), but also that a uniquely-English 19th century ex-cathedra assertion that WM is paramount is incompatible with a contemporary interpretation of the Rule of Law, and – importantly – that the potential political outcome of a legitimate referendum on the question of self-determination cannot be used as an excuse to suppress it.

        As the case says, within the Rule of Law, where there is a right, there must also be a remedy (for its violation). So the SC is in effect being asked (in order to protect the very basis of its existence) to rule that the UKGov cannot legitimately block the ability of the people of Scotland to properly establish, by themselves, a consensual view of their future governance.

        It’s plain impossible for any other view to be taken within a functioning democratic system that fully respects the Rule of Law.

        • grizebard says:

          In fact, I particularly enjoyed the juridically-robust quote at the end of §2 of Lord Drummond Young:

          […] Consequently I would have no hesitation in rejecting any arguments based on procedural niceties, or the detailed scope of previous descriptions of the supervisory jurisdiction, if they appear to stand in the way of the proper enforcement of the rule of law.’

          That’s exactly the approach needed here too.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          For those of us who enjoy a bit of googling and some follow through (doesn’t make us bad persons), this is a bit interesting from February this year:

          and from her speech itself, linked on that page:

          Perhaps we should start with that great expounder of the British constitution, A. V. Dicey (my bold)

          but also this:

          Something that both Dicey and Lord Bingham agree on, however, is that the rule of law goes beyond the mere commandments of the law.

          and it is possible the UKSC, bearing in mind that a judge’s main duty is to protect the Rule of Law, might be put to some hard pondering as to what is the “Rule of Law” in this case.

          “Judicial independence is a prerequisite to the rule of law and a fundamental guarantee of a fair trial. A judge shall therefore uphold and exemplify judicial independence in both its individual and institutional aspects

          (URL below to avoid moderation)

  88. Alex Clark says:

    I’d put money on it that when the next Tory leader is picked, maybe not too long from now, then the Tory party members won’t be involved in picking that leader as such a disaster Truss is proving to be after just days in the job.

    Strong and Stable LOL

  89. Dr Jim says:

    I enjoyed the interview with Labours one and only MP in Scotland Ian Murray
    Ian’s happy to answer all questions except ones that require actual answers, and when he answers he says “Yes but I don’t think that’s the conversation we should be having” and Ian does this every single time Scotlands right to democracy is mentioned

    Ian Murray did let slip once again from his very own big mouth though what Labours tactics are going to be in Scotland, Ian makes the suggestion that we must vote Labour to get Labour in England elected, but if we don’t vote Labour then we are Scottish nationalists who prefer the Tories to his lovely “left of centre” party

    Way to blackmail Scottish voters there Ian Murray, and I’m absolutely sure they’ll fall for this shit……….NOT

  90. Hamish100 says:

    I see Gibraltar was playing football in the euros.

    Surely it is too small etcetera and it isn’t even a Nation. Do they play God save the King as a national anthem because surely that’s Englands anthem like rangers football club. Confusing.

    • Azel says:

      They play the Gibraltar Anthem I believe, not God Save the King. And here’s yet another team for the idiots who believe that each nation of the UK having its own team is divisive to go after.

  91. Hamish100 says:

    I am sure Sarwars rich pals would have been clapping the tories tax giveaways.

    I am not sure if trades unionists would be happy for their hard earned cash be given over to Sarwar.

  92. yesindyref2 says:

    Basically speaking you have in countdown order of competence:

    3. David Cameron and George Osborne
    2. Theresa May and Philip Hammond
    1. Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak
    0. Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng

    Blast off!

  93. Golfnut says:

    Having read the submission my only comment is that I am seriously underwhelmed.

  94. Hamish100 says:

    Fire and brimstone is not a legal submission.
    The issue is whether it has legal standing or not.
    The direction of travel is fine even with obstructions on the way.

    The UN will be less than happy if a larger neighbour states they control a smaller independent nation. Copycat comes to mind.

    • Which country did Zelenskyy watch play his at the footie last week, with a re-match oan the nicht?

      You know, the one that’s chartered cruise ships make the people of his country feel really welcome as they seek refuge from the war?

      It was the same country that beat my other country at footie too the other night.

      The one that England tries to argue is not a country and it’s people not a people, but if it’s not, neither is England, and neither are the English.

    • Golfnut says:

      You can’t claim the people of Scotland are sovereign unless you put into context why that sovereignty is still in force post the union and how that was achieved. It’s the very foundation of westminster requiring consent.
      No fire and brimstone required Hamish

      • yesindyref2 says:

        I thnk Hamish is right, and the only important thing is whether or not the Scottish people are a people – the rest follows almost automatically.

        In addition “1) the application be granted by way of written submissions only limited to 20 pages and avoiding repetition of the Lord Advocate’s arguments. These submission to be filed no later than 21 September 2022.

        2) permission be granted to the parties to produce written responses, each limited to 20 pages, within 14 days of service of the SNP’s written submissions.

        The UK SAG is going to have to say that the Scottish people are NOT a people, and the LA can expand a bit, or put in context the SNP case – she is now the Government’s representative for the actual hearing, rather than the LA in the public interest.

        20 pages isn’t a lot when incuding titles, preambles and references.

      • Hamish100 says:

        Are you saying Scottish people are not sovereign?

        There is nothing in the LA or the government submission that I have perused would suggest that. Claim of right etc.

        • Golfnut says:

          No Hamish, far from it and in answer to YR2 a few lines noting that the English Parliament of 1706 ratified acceptance of the sovereignty of the people of Scotland would not have been remiss. The Lord Advocate is addressing the court on behalf of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish government, the SNP are addressing the court on behalf of the people and their rights. One subordinate, one equal.

          • yesindyref2 says:

            a few lines noting that the English Parliament of 1706 ratified acceptance of the sovereignty of the people of Scotland

            I can’t find that anywhere, could you point me to it please in the Union with Scotland Act 1706? Maybe I missed it.


            • Golfnut says:

              How about the Claim of Right, actually it wasn’t accepted as such, it was forced on the English Parliament by Queen Ann as condition of acceptance of the Treaty of Union. Not that it was new or something unknown to English Parliamentarians, William of Orange accepted the Claim of Right prior to Queen Ann. One other point you might like to ponder, by conceding and ratifying the Claim of Right as a condition of the Treaty it removed westminsters claim to absolute sovereignty, in essence the union Parliament has less power not more than its predecessor since it now shared sovereignty with Scotland.

              • yesindyref2 says:

                I’ve previously posted the link to the Claim of Right 1689, which is extant:


                but you need to provide the quoted text, and a link to provey the rest of your assertions, Golfnut, which you haven’t done.

                I only ponder provable facts, and opinions based on them, with references or links – exactly the same as the 11 Judges who will probably be the full panel of the UKSC hearing, will. Same as any normal court in the rest of the world based on the rule of law would.

                Hence about 3 pages of the 20 page written submission on behalf of the SNP.

                • Golfnut says:

                  I have to ask you, since you provided the link, just what action could better prove the sovereignty of the Scottish People than sacking the King, while the English Parliament recorded only that he abdicated.
                  As for the rest, a Treaty between 2 sovereign states always requires the relinquishing of some measure of sovereignty, the COR was Englands, the Acts ratifying the Treaty of Union will provide you with as much text as you need. I’d mind you that you are not a judge and I’m not a supplicant petitioning your approval.

                  • yesindyref2 says:

                    So you can’t back up your claims.

                    • Golfnut says:

                      I take it then that you don’t believe the people of Scotland are sovereign unless and until some outside source tells you. Your own constitutional documentation and traditions are insuffiient, the COR, both the English and Scottish Acts of Union ratifying the Treaty of Union, you don’t understand the significance of the Scottish courts rejecting Magna Carta and judging that it has no standing in Scots law, or progueing parliament as unlawful, the motion from the SNP passed confirming the COR without a vote, unopposed because they dare not. Lord Cooper’s opinion that Parliametary sovereignty is an English principal not found in Scots law, what is it you require to understand that if you are sovereign westminster can’t be absolutely sovereign, unlike the former English Parliament?

                    • Legerwood says:

                      You appear to be confusing the 2 Claims of Right (CoR). The CoR 1689 is the legal entity still on the statute books – Scotland’s Magna Carta as on Professoor described it. The other CoR 1989 which was debated in the HoC has no legal standing.

                    • yesindyref2 says:


  95. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Apparently BBC Scotland have resurrected the…..Ferries story….again.

    “Leaked dossier SUGGESTS Scottish Ferry deal MAY have been rigged”

    Suggest and May doing a lot of work in THAT headline…….and let’s not us the BBC wait until we have a definite conclusion based on facts that can actually state CONFIRMS that is WAS rigged……no let’s instead go with it as is….as the mere suggestion it MAY be is enough at the moment to do ALL of the heavy lifting in promoting yet another #SNPBAD story…….

    Sooooooooo Tories in trouble and getting all of the negative attention just now sooooo we, the BBC, cannot have that……let’s then us ,the BBC , go back and revisit an old #SNPBAD story…as there is NO show without PUNCH(bag) aka the SNP when the Tories are in trouble…..

    Time this story was put to bed…’s becoming a soap opera that’s on more often than (B)Eastenders……it does prove beyond question that they, the BBC, must be on a losing streak in actually finding any REAL #SNPBAD stories that MATCH much of the badness that exists within Pro UK parties when they have to resurrect old stories …again and again and again…….

    This is getting embarrassing….for the BBC in Scotland…..and so obvious their agenda is that I do believe THEY themselves are doing ALL of the heavy lifting in convincing MORE people how they cannot be trusted as a trusted source of news…..and I do not need to SUGGEST that MAY be the case as it is they themselves who CONFIRM it is indeed a FACT.

    Now how about WE the BBC perhaps turn to Labour ……as in promote THEM in Scotland while turning a blind eye also to them in anything that portrays them as #LabourPartyBad……that will work….for the (non) Union….surely. (Just until the Tories get their act together that is…..then we can have the Baroness on again…allegedly she is a “political animal” (self appointed… emphasis on the animal obvs)…..but currently she must be out hunting (for yet another wee side-line job to fill her own coffers) as cannot be traced to be PUT onto a TV channel near YOU just now…as the HEAT is apparently ON as far as the Tories are concerned…..yet AGAIN)……

    This formula media adopting on the SNP way too repetitive , too obvious and too boring for fair minded THINKERS in Scotland to fall for…..time and time and time and time again.

  96. yesindyref2 says:

    Meanwhile from Jeremy Peat:

    The Chancellor is promising more. We must hope that even Conservative MPs see the gross error of his ways and that another change at the top comes sooner rather than later.

    which is pretty strong for him.

  97. James Mills says:

    ”You’ve never had it so good ! ” was the mantra of the Tories under Harold Macmillan
    in the late 50’s .
    With the Triple Whammy of rising energy prices , rising food prices and , now , rising mortgage rates , the new Truss Tory mantra must be :

    ” You’ve never had it so bad ! ”

    And she’s only been in the job for a fortnight ! Be afraid , be very afraid !

  98. davetewart says:

    What a great performance, historic indeed.
    One week on the job, 6 weeks holiday.

    Love the traders name for truss, Daggers.
    Two stops on from Barking.

  99. So much for the Tories being the party of home ownership.

    Mortgage lenders halt some deals after pound falls

    Some mortgage deals have been withdrawn by banks and building societies after a fall in the pound fuelled forecasts of a sharp rise in interest rates.

    Virgin Money and Skipton Building Society halted mortgage offers for new customers, but said submitted applications would still be processed.

    Halifax said it would stop mortgages with product fees.

  100. Coming back to Ukraine, if Putin’s new recruits are running away before they can even be recruited, then they will run at the first sign of trouble on the front line.

    They have nothing to fight for. They don’t want to fight. Russia can never win in this situation. It is why the Ukrainians are defeating a much larger army. This does not come as a surprise to me at all.

    The Russians were always going to lose unless the people of Ukraine actually wanted them there, which they clearly don’t.

  101. Tam the Bam says:

    WTO announce …’ global recession pending.’
    Expect Tory gov to blame everything on ‘a global recession.’

  102. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Watched online Ian Murray Kathryn Samson interview :

    Murray saying ” We’re saying give the keys to No 10 to a progressive UK Labour party” ( progressive ?…..elaborate as I must have missed something).

    Samson replied ” Yes but the SNP would say they are progressive wouldn’t they ” ?

    Murray ” Yes but they can’t be at power in WM ”

    Someone tell him they do NOT WANT to be in power at WM …they only want to be in power in a parliament in an Independent Scotland…Duh.

    Mind you Murray talking about anyone being in power…..when he is but ONE elected MP in Scotland for Labour….Labour being the THIRD party at Holyrood…..and via Tory coalitions in councils in Scotland have stolen the said councils from the SNP……

    Also HQ have NOT been in power for 12 years in the UK….so hey perhaps “Can’t be in power” is more appropriate for LABOUR than the SNP Mr Murray Mint….

    Any poll showing THEM as ahead in the polls to Tories in the UK just now is a protest vote against the Tories and NOT an endorsement for them as a party…..if they cannot win the next GE they are very much then a spent force in England……( me thinks they pledge much via their conference….but Starmer has form in backtracking on pledges made …as in ones he made in his leadership campaign that fell by the wayside once he was elected …very much like a lot of the Tories 2019 manifesto)……..

    Will all of this EVER end….no…when it does though , via independence, we can then all start to LIVE our lives again… NORMAL citizens should be able to do… NORMAL independent countries…….

    • Bob Lamont says:

      One if the major aspects an Independent Scottish Government must address is to be rid of the rancid politics imported from Westminster and the corrupt media machine (which tries and frequently succeeds) in convincing an entire nation it’s government is acting in it’s own interest despite all evidence to the contrary…
      eg –
      1 – HMS James Cook’s article “Patient’s 84-hour wait in A&E ‘horrendous’ – Douglas Ross” was debunked by the son of the now deceased mother within hours of Dross’s ham-dram “performance” in Holyrood, yet the article persisted for at least 36 hours on the BBC website without the slightest correction or apology from either the BBC or Douglas Ross.
      2 – How often have we heard Murray, Ross, Sarwar, etc say there is no appetite for another Independence Referendum in Scotland despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, with even majority support for the right to hold one in England whatever the outcome might be ?
      3 – I’d be greatly surprised if the Supreme Court rules that ANY referendum is not the right the SG to hold, and that all the mischief generated since the 2012 declaration by SoSS Moore was based on a lie which has persisted more than a decade.

      The normalisation of lying as “just politics” is a cancer of modern times, but when the media are complicit in the lie it is time for major surgery.
      Indy is the prep-room prior to surgery, in post-op it’s “mind the gap” Mr Cook, that’s where your nuts were…

      • grizebard says:

        One of the lesser but essential consequences of independence has to be a serious overhaul of media standards, with a fully-empowered ombudsman. Deliberate public mendacity is toxic to democracy.

    • JoMax says:

      “Samson replied ” Yes but the SNP would say they are progressive wouldn’t they ” ?

      Murray ” Yes but they can’t be at power in WM ””

      Because as we Scots know only too well, in the minds of the Scottish Unionist cabal, there are only two Parties in the UK which matter, Tory and Labour, and between them they can make as much of a mess of the UK and its economy as they like and no one can ever stop them or fix it. The electorate is ‘free’ to bounce between the one or the other which in England many seem quite happy to do. If needs be, they can always call upon that other Party, the LibDems, to bolster either one of them up on demand.

  103. Statgeek says:

    Latest YG poll shows little gain for Lab in Scotland. Proof that Lab don’t need Scotland to win elections and proof that Lab only used Scotland when it suited their needs.

    (GB data)
    Lab: 45%
    Con: 28%
    Lib: 9%
    Grn: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    Ref: 2%
    PC: 1%
    Oth: 2%

    (Scottish Data)
    SNP: 44%
    Lab: 21%
    Con: 19%
    Grn: 7%
    Lib: 5%
    Ref: 2%
    Oth: 1%

    Estimated seats via Electoral Calc:
    Lab: 417 (+214)
    Con: 141 (-224)
    SNP: 52 (+4)
    Lib: 16 (+5)
    PC: 4 (nc*)
    Grn: 1 (nc)
    Oth: 1 (+1)
    NI: 18

    Scottish Seats Results:
    SNP: 52 (+4)
    Con: 3 (-3)
    Lab 2: (+1)
    Lib: 2 (-2)

    SNP take seats from the Tories (Bowie, Jack, and Ross), and also two from Lib (Stone (Caithness) and Chamberlain (Fife North East)), while Lab take Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeth back; Brown’s old seat prior to 2015.

    Lab majority of 184, apparently. If that’s the case, it’ll be interesting to see how Starmer et al manage to steer away from Indyref(s). Hands over ears and “la la la”, would be my guess, as a strong and stable majority of England’s voters prefer it.

    For what it’s worth, if we shift the MoE +3% to Con nationally, and -3% from Lab nationally, it’s a Lab majority of 44 seats, which is far more likely, imho. More than 20 and less than 100 would be far more believable than over 100 or under theOM threshold.

    * Ignores Welsh poll results from recent poll, so pinch of salt there.

    Click to access TheTimes_VI_Budget_220926_W.pdf

    • Statgeek says:

      Also a Deltapoll poll has data:
      Lab: 44%
      Con: 31%
      Lib: 12%

      And when adjusting those three data points in the national calc, it spits out a Lab OM of 68. An extra 60 Tory seats, and two extra Lib Dem ones. Funny how a gain of 3% for each party affects them so differently.

  104. Dr Jim says:

    **Sturgeons SNP to prop up Labour to win general election**

    That’s all the Daily Express the Daily Mail the Sun and the Telegraph have to run on their front pages and England will rush to the polling booths to vote Tory all over again

    **Sturgeon to make eating porridge in England a law**
    **Sturgeon to force UK return to the EU in deal with Labour**
    **Sturgeon demands Scottish independence in deal with Labour**

    See how that works, Labour has as much chance of forming the UK government as me inventing time travel

  105. Dr Jim says:

    Scotlands FM Nicola Sturgeon and Wales FM Mark Drakeford met at Bute house this morning to discuss ways to protect both our countries from Englands insanity

  106. Dr Jim says:

    Vladimir Starmer finishes his mighty speech to Englands Labour party by attacking Scotlands national party, the chosen government of Scotland by democratic election by stating Labour will not work with the SNP under any circumstances, thus giving the clear indication that like the Tories Liz Truss he is determined to ignore the people of Scotlands political choices

    So Vladimir Starmer not choosing to use Lisa Nandy’s option of sending in the *British* army to Scotland, at the moment

    Give him time though and he might just get England to vote for that

  107. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Apparently Two weeks ago Liz Truss during her first PMQs made a statement that she would “absolutely ensure Doncaster Sheffield airport will be protected”

    It’s just announced its closure.

    Come on…..purlease someone who votes Tory MUST see another duff has been over promoted via the party as their leader…..I mean deja vu or what…they just cannot help appointing certain candidates and then their members electing THAT candidate , in what is patently obvious to others, in that the one chosen by THEM (yet again) as ‘new’ leader….being clearly THE wrong person for the supposed top JOB……indeed any JOB in fact…..incompetence does not even cover it !!!!

    Are all Tory members and voters taking something…..if you know what I mean…..or is it ME who is seeing that all of this is mental mental chicken oriental……and this is but a clusterf*ck like no other….someone said on here the other day they thought Tories did NOT want to win the next GE…..I think they were right…..but by God some of them are trying to make as much money as possible for themselves I am sure (and a select few others) BEFORE that happens…..we need to be talking prosecutions here…Jail time.

    BTW if BBC Rep Scotland keep up this #SNPBAD sh*t then I think I will be pushed over the edge….cause this is getting way way beyond a joke……I may self combust.

    I’m past demented with a media that is condemning and blaming the wrong ones while ignoring the culprits……..independence yes….but are we sure a revolution won’t happen as well………..things getting (too) real now…..I wonder just how many complaints the BBC get on a daily basis…..beyond counting surely. (Infinite…or should be)

  108. Dr Jim says:

    One wonders re Vladimir Starmers instruction of his Labour party not working with the SNP under “any circumstances” will mean the end of Labours participation in FMQs or indeed the Scottish parliament in general given that the government of Scotland is the Scottish National party?

    These English political parties really are very small minded petty people but with massively overblown opinions of themselves

    The SNP can never be the government of the UK in England so what’s the point of voting for them is the implication by Labour, and we in Scotland can see clearly that’s the problem we’re all trying to get away from isn’t it, England two party domination of four countries and no matter what the electorate might choose to vote for at any given time both Labour and Tory join forces and cut them out to maintain their undemocratic stranglehold on all four nations

    There’s no point voting Green for example, there’s no point in voting anybody else at all because Tory and Labour will crush your vote, that’s what they’re saying

    If I were a Tory and even the slightest bit concerned about Englands new Vladimir Starmers Labour succeeding in his planned threats to voters rights I would be considering ditching Scotland real quick to make sure Labour would never have a chance again of ever being the UK government of England

    Just a wee thought there Liz

  109. grizebard says:

    “The SNP can never be the government of the UK in England so what’s the point of voting for them?” is a line so worn out that there is no political retread in the world that could possibly revive it. A total absence of anything positive to offer, and a sure sign of a failure to comprehend why Labour have been – and still are – failing in Scotland.

    Only a complete moron would sacrifice their future wellbeing because of yet another repeat airing of this kind of self-entitled extortion. And only a complete political dead-ender would even try it. (Which is what is guaranteed to happen when advice is being taken from Ian “Plastic Tory” Murray.)

  110. grizebard says:

    C4 news tonight revealing that it now costs UKGov more to borrow internationally than Greece. Now what was that quotation again from BT involving Greece?

    “Strong and stable” – another wreck on the BT highway of tears.

    Why need we bother with polls about who might win another UKGE in a couple of years time? The moment will soon be ripe for taking the initiative and extricating ourselves from this ongoing guddle, and this time round there aren’t enough fools and ditherers in all of Scotland to stop it happening.

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