Oh look, another Vow

It was only a week ago that the First Minister dropped a bombshell on the Anglo-British nationalist parties by setting out how the Scottish Government intends to hold a lawful vote on Scottish independence with or without the permission of the Prime Law Breaker. The penny is starting to drop on them that they do not hold all the cards and that there will either be a lawful referendum or they face going into the next UK General Election facing a united Yes alliance seeking a mandate for independence while they try to defend a British state which has ruled that Scotland can only exercise its historic sovereign right to national self-determination with the permission of a British Prime Minister whose party has not won an election in Scotland since the 1950s. Good luck with that one lads.

The First Minister’s announcement was followed within days by an opinion poll giving a lead for Yes, a poll made more significant by the fact that it was conducted by a company which has tended to produce worse results for yes than other companies, and the campaigning has only just begun. At a comparable stage in the first referendum campaign support for Yes was languishing in the 30s and the people who were then insisting that they were not nationalists were confidently predicting an overwhelming victory for the No campaign.

It was not until the final weeks of the campaign that the Better Together parties started to realise that the result was going to be far closer than they had originally anticipated and they began to hastily cobble together some carrots to dangle before the Scottish electorate in order to fend off that dreaded majority for Yes.

This time around Better Together 2.0 is getting its panic in early. The campaign has only just begun and already the Labour party is allowing us to say, “Oh look, another Vow.” At an event in London on Monday, Anas Sarwar, Labour’s branch office manager in Scotland, will announce what he proudly claims is Labour’s alternative to independence, an alternative which essentially boils down to asking Scotland to trust that Westminster won’t shaft it again, which given Westminster’s previous track record with vows is a pretty big ask.

This time the Vow, honest to god we really mean it this time pinkie promise I swear on my dug’s life, consists of the Labour party telling us that instead of independence Scotland can have Westminster pass some legislation which would introduce a “new legal duty of co-operation between the UK and Scottish governments”. According to the branch manager this would”ensure [that Holyrood and Westminster] work together where they can and not against each other”. Now isn’t that just lovely. Sarwar seems to think that this would protect Scotland from the shameful treatment we witnessed at the hands of the Conservatives following 2016’s Brexit vote when the British Government embarked upon the hardest possible Brexit and did not bother to keep the Scottish Parliament informed, never mind consult with it or seek its agreement when its Brexit plans impinged upon the devolution settlement.

This is a vow that falls apart on even the most cursory examination. There are three big problems with it. First of all we need to trust that voters in England will return a Labour Government at the next election, which is very far from certain, notwithstanding Keir Starmer’s conversion into a hardline Brextremist who has promised that a Labour government would never take the UK back into the EU’s single market. So if you were looking to the Labour party to restore your right to freedom of movement throughout Europe, forget it.

Secondly we need to trust that Labour will implement this promise in full and will not seek to water it down the second that a vote against independence is in the bag. You don’t need a long memory to remember Labour’s unseemly haste to strip Gordon Brown’s vow of any substance in the Smith Commission negotiations following the No vote in the 2014 referendum. So it is now incumbent upon Anas Sarwar and the Labour party to prove that they won’t pull the same trick again. Quite how they can achieve that, I don’t know, but I do know it can be filed under “That would be a you problem, Anas.” Labour has already betrayed the trust of the people of Scotland, they’re not going to get it back just because they tell us that this time they mean it.

However it’s the third problem which looks to be insurmountable. The British constitution is founded upon the principle of the absolute sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament and the doctrine that no Westminster Parliament may bind its successor. Labour is as much in thrall to this fetishisation of Westminster sovereignty as the Tories are. So even if we accept that Anas Sarwar’s grand alternative to independence will be implemented sincerely, honestly, and in full, something which cannot be taken for granted. There is absolutely no way in which the Labour party can guarantee that this law would not be repealed, side-stepped, or rendered meaningless by a future Conservative Government. The Westminster doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty means that no Westminster Parliament can bind the hands of its successors, so it is impossible for Sarwar’s proposed legislation to be protected from a future Conservative Government which doesn’t like it.

We saw something very similar already with the Sewel Convention which said that no Westminster Government would meddle with the powers of the Scottish Parliament without Holyrood’s consent. It was one of the key promises of the Better Together campaign that this convention would be enshrined in law. First of all Westminster inserted the weasel word “normally” into the phrasing, so it read that the Westminster Government would not normally meddle with the powers of the Scottish Parliament without Holyrood’s consent, giving itself a convenient get out of jail free card.

Following the Brexit vote, Theresa May’s government sought a Supreme Court ruling and the UK Supreme Court ruled that the provision had no force in law as it conflicted with the doctrine that no Westminster Parliament can bind the hands of its successors. And if that was not insult enough, Theresa May’s Government added insult to injury by redefining Holyrood consent. Holyrood saying Yes would count as consent, Holyrood refusing to engage with the Westminster government would count as consent, and Holyrood saying No would count as consent too. There is absolutely nothing to prevent a future Tory Government from doing something very similar to Anas Sarwar’s proposed legislation. It could easily redefine “co-operation” to mean issuing Holyrood a direct order.

Anas Sarwar knows all this too. He knows that what he is proposing can easily be stripped of substance and meaning just as soon as Westminster decides it is in its interests to do so. But he also knows that the British nationalist parties have blown up most of the arguments that they deployed against independence in the 2014 referendum and he is scrabbling around for something to differentiate a democracy denying Labour party from a democracy denying Conservative party. The fact that the best he can come up with is this intelligence insulting nonsense merely illustrates just how much trouble Better Together 2.0 is in. And Anas Sarwar knows that as well, which is why he is hand in glove with the Tories in trying to subvert Scottish democracy and stop a referendum from taking place.

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42 comments on “Oh look, another Vow

  1. Golfnut says:

    I think your giving Sarwar too much credit, the idea that this proposal is Sarwars baby is as unbelievable as any Vow from the liblabtory party.

  2. UndeadShaun says:

    I think Starmer with his brexit policy uturn has really said Scotland is lost.
    But has not told Sarwar yet.

    And Starmer like Johnson now shows why we need independence.

    Its like the stars have aligned with Starmer being the last part and showing even if labour gets into government, this is as good as it gets.

    Brexit is here for at least 2 decades.

    For any pro EU voters who are dont knows or soft nos to independence this will help them make their minds up for how to vote next year.

    • wm says:

      Starmer’s English labour party depends on Tony’s middle England vote in the London/South East of England ( the millionaire Labour voters) aye/right. Sarwar is a member of the club. These people now control how the “socialists” in said party think and it is not about North of the border.

  3. Alex Clark says:

    It’s pretty obvious that the Tory, Labour and Lib Dems in Scotland don’t themselves believe they are “Better Together”. So any Better Together 2.0 is looking like it will be Red, Blue and Yellow Tories all working very much apart.

    A cross-party campaign to save the Union if there is a second Scottish independence referendum is “not going to happen” because of the political toxicity of Boris Johnson and the electoral damage caused by the previous one.
    Senior Scottish Labour and Scottish Liberal Democrat sources told i a rerun of Better Together, the cross-party campaign formed ahead of the 2014 vote which also featured the Conservatives, would not work a second time.
    Polling expert Sir John Curtice said this meant a “fragmented” pro-Union campaign was likely to come up against a “largely united” campaign for independence, which could potentially lead to the break-up of the UK.

    https://archive.ph/k2Y27

    This comes as no surprise, so Labour appears to be doing their own thing already and offering Vow 2.0 up front without the agreement of anyone else and without any hope of it even happening. This speech today was just complete tosh but it gave Sarwar a chance to make a bit of noise and get in the papers. By next week after a hefty dose of ridicule, it will be forgotten about in Scotland and it will be the turn of Ruth the Mooth or some other Westminster stooge to have their day in the spotlight.

    None of them are going to enjoy working for Boris Johnson in order to save the Union but they have little choice. By trying to defend the Union then they are trying to defend the last 12 years of Tory government, austerity and all. I’m not surprised they are unhappy at the prospect.

    The rest of that article suggests that the playbook will be the same as last time as they have no positive case for staying in the Union so their campaign will be totally focused on Project Fear 2.0.

    It’s all they have and they know it.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      Don’t forget Johnson himself is the self-appointed ‘Minister for the Union’.

      If that is maintained as is his toxicity, which should be placed in front of soft No voters on a regular basis, then Yes should be galloping ahead.

      And, no, I’m not complacent – but reminding others of Johnson’s Ministerial role can do no harm.

    • grizebard says:

      Well, I suppose that’s Labour once again stepping up to “save the Union”, given that the “Ruth Revival” has died a quick and well-merited death at the hands of the Prime Liar and Ditherer DRoss. Today the North British Labour pitch was delivered by probably their least competent {ahem} “leader” in a long list of incompetents, looking very pleased with himself, basking in the limelight. (I wonder, did he first consult Federal Brood? Likely not.)

      How long will it take for a majority of Labour voters, especially the relatively “comfortable off”, that our simulacrum of Labour is a complete rudderless ideas vacuum that is preparing again to act as little but a pathetic “hands off” shill for a Tory party which, whatever their leader, will be laughing behind their collective hands at how jolly it is to have the useful idiots back in harness again to take the strain for them. Until it’s all over in their favour, that is, then again it will be “thanks for all the good work, chaps, now there’s the door”. And if not, well, the Tory Party at least will still have a following post-indy.

      Yet the Labour leadership somehow think that, whatever happens, this is a winning strategy for their party? Ye gods!

  4. Hamish100 says:

    I think the younger voters in particular will look at the “no more Europe” stance of labour as confirming its right wing credentials.
    Yes the “ there’s a squirrel” diversion with the complicit BBC today was to divert away from Starmers decision to toe the little englander Brexit view of the world.
    BBC, it disnae work anymore.. Yir sussed!

    Scotland in Europe- SNP or Greens will benefit.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  5. stewartb says:

    So Labour, if returned to government in Westminster, is vowing to change the UK constitution – to abolish the House of Lords and replace it with a ‘senate’ (or was it just a ‘forum’) – without a consultative or confirmatory referendum.

    As to a “new legal duty of co-operation between the UK and Scottish governments” to ”ensure [that Holyrood and Westminster] work together where they can and not against each other”. Oh dear!

    I’d rather opt for the Nordic model – democratic, independent nation-states WILLINGLY working together because of shared values, shared interests and close cross-border community relations – OTHERWISE KNOWN AS PRACTICAL SOLIDARITY! Or the European Union model?

  6. Hamish100 says:

    Maybe we misread Sarwar. Maybe the policy is to ensure the rump of Labour Party are forced to work together to help back the tories and Lib Dem pals get Brexit done or oven ready?

  7. perthcol says:

    An excellent, no frills dismantling of Labour’s pitch to the voting public.
    Sarwar and Starmer are intent on taking on the garb of the Tories to win back those who voted for Brexit in 2016 and Tory in 2019.
    They don’t seem to see there is no room for them given the Lib Dems already occupy that space.
    It’s going to be very crowded in that centre ground.
    The SNP and wider Indy movement must keep to a left of centre standpoint where the traditional Scottish principles and values reside.

  8. Aye, this is utter madness from Labour in terms of ever winning votes in Scotland.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62034754

    In the speech, Sir Keir will recommit to keeping the UK out of the EU’s single market, customs union and free movement rules.

    Support for these things was basically the one thing left separating new Labour and the Orange book Libs from the Tories/UKIP.

    Yes is gonnae win by a country mile.

  9. stewartb says:

    The contortions of logic; the abandonment of basic principles of fairness, never mind democracy; and the hypocrisy being displayed by ‘leaders’ of Unionist/British nationalist political parties is a shocking site to behold. I caught a TV interview with the leader of the Lib Dems in Scotland – yes the leader of a ‘liberal democratic party’ – who simply skipped past the facts and in principle implications of the Liberal Democrat’s own 2019 General Election manifesto.

    In a BBC News website article dated 20 November, 2019 under the headline ‘Liberal Democrat manifesto 2019: 12 key policies explained’ David Cornock, political correspondent tells us this:

    ‘The words “STOP BREXIT” appear in large capital letters on the front of the manifesto. Uniquely among UK-wide parties, the Liberal Democrats are PROMISING TO REVOKE ARTICLE 50 IMMEDIATELY – AND STOP BRITAIN LEAVING THE EU WITHOUT ANOTHER REFERENDUM.’ (my emphasis)

    ‘The pledge stands out from Labour, who would offer another vote, and the Conservatives, who are promising to leave the EU in January. The Liberal Democrats believe THE CLARITY OF THIS APPROACH won them votes during the European elections – and can be a vote-winner again.’

    Then there is the Lib Dem’s manifesto document itself (https://www.libdems.org.uk/eu-manifesto-19 ):

    ‘Stop Brexit – EVERY VOTE FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS IS A VOTE TO STOP BREXIT AND STAY IN THE EUROPEAN UNION.’

    It adds: ’The election of a Liberal Democrat majority government on A CLEAR STOP BREXIT PLATFORM WILL PROVIDE A DEMOCRATIC MANDATE TO STOP THIS mess, revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU.’

    So it was a tactic that failed but was it also unprincipled, undemocratic then or is this kind of thing only undemocratic now when it suits the UK’s version of liberal democracy?

    Elsewhere in the same manifesto, the Lib Dems stated this: ’THE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE UK’S NATIONS AND REGIONS NEED ARE THOSE WHO LIVE IN THEM.’

    • grizebard says:

      So many hostages to fortune, so many shameless pusillanimous U-turns. I just hope that come IR2, they will be on full public view again, this time courtesy of the Yes campaign!

  10. Bojo saying Scottish indy would be ‘tragic’ for the entire universe.

    Or at least that will be next.

    • James Mills says:

      Yes , the Romulans , the Ferengi , the Klingons and the Borg have all stated that ”Now is not the right time ” for Scottish Independence .

      Their ambassadors met recently with PM Boris Johnson at a party in Downing Street .The Vulcans sent their apologies but confirmed through their representative Spock that Scottish Independence , and I quote , was ”Illogical !”

      A spokesperson for Alister Jack , an alien from a galaxy , far , far away , told the Scottish people to ”suck it up ! ” , while another strange wee alien from Bath ,posing as a long lost Scottish nationalist , told former Scottish patriot Jim Sillars ,” It’s Indpendence , Jim , but not as we know it ! ”

  11. Hamish100 says:

    So now we have Jim Murphy ex SOS on bbc spouting his wisdom without challenge on the future of Scotland- from his wee hoose in London. Starmer is doing well. Sarwar free video of his “no deal” unless your Tory/libdems.
    Free publicity all round. Nice one partial BBC.

    I see Murphy is identified as Director of Arden Strategies. Not sure if that was a defensive strategy in the 60’s / 70’s from gangs from the Nitsy, Priesty spilling over the unwritten border which is now Darnley in south Glasgow.
    During 2014 I recall that there was a mystery over several years over Murphy’s career. Never resolved From memory. Is there a black hole in Arden? Another failed nobody attacking the FM. Remember the hype. The next FM in Scotland.

    Tosses and labour are like moths to a light with the meter running empty.

  12. bringiton says:

    Sadly,there are too many British Labour supporters who will go along with anything which preserves the union with England.
    However,they are going to have to come to terms with the fact that their party is denying Scottish democracy and by extension,the denial that Scotland is a country.

  13. Dr Jim says:

    It looks like the British nationalists are pinning their hopes on Sarwar having some sort of effect on the most gullible because they can’t, they just can’t, deploy Gordon Brown again, it would be so deeply embarrassing to have to wheel out the mummified corpse of this clunking dinosaur dragging himself across miners welfare club stages, bandages coming loose trailing behind him while the BBC cameras film him partial arm outstretched disintegrating before our eyes as his body warms up under the lights with pieces of him falling off and the stench of Labour death slowly permeating the venue with the guttural sound of *feh da rah lizum* emanating from his gaping maw like the bad monster on a Scooby Doo cartoon

    Now that I’ve said they won’t I bet they probably will do it, they are just that stupid

  14. stewartb says:

    Edinburgh Evening News 15 November 2018:

    ‘Ian Murray: Brexit’s a fudge that sticks in my throat – Would you vote for a political party that’s only general election policy was to make you significantly poorer? Well, that is what has happened. The Government has decided that they will pursue a Brexit at all and any cost.’

    (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/ian-murray-brexits-fudge-sticks-my-throat-215628 )

    No, not then – and not now, Tory or Labour!

  15. Alex Clark says:

    Sarwar is an idiot for thinking that supporting Starmer in not wanting anything to do with the EU will make his party more popular in Scotland. He should have been fighting against Starmer about this rather than back him wholeheartedly.

    One thing is for sure, of the 38%% of people in Scotland who voted to leave the EU more than 2/3rds of them are right wing Tory voters. He won’t win any of them with this stance and can only alienate more or the support that he has left.

  16. James Mills says:

    Sarwar is just like his dear old dad . He has no interest in the people – his only interest is in himself and his own career prospects .
    Daddy’s hard work as a ‘Labour ‘MP helped him to be Governor of The Punjab ( a hot-bed of socialism – not ! )
    Sarwar Jr is aiming for the House of Lords , like so many commited Scottish Labour heroes before , thus his a*se -licking to Starmer and the London Elite

  17. jfngw says:

    This legally binding cooperation’ is just a way to bypass the claim of right and tie Scotland to Westminster in perpetuity. It would always require Westminster approval of any choice Scotland may want to make regarding the union.

    It is the Lisa Nandy Spanish solution dressed up as moderation. It would in effect end the union and make Scotland a region of the UK, rather than a country in its own right. Watch out for Sarwar he is an evil shite, a sort of polite version of Alex Cole Hamilton.

    • grizebard says:

      “It is the Lisa Nandy Spanish solution dressed up as moderation.”

      That’s about as concise and complete a summary as possible.

    • Golfnut says:

      ” by pass the Claim of Right ” a pre condition of the Treaty of Union being accepted and ratified by both the English and Scottish Parliaments. The NI Protocol a clear breach of the Treaty of Union.
      They cant seem to help themselves, and now we have an English law officer threatening to interfer in any legislation introduced by the SG to progress a referendum.

  18. ArtyHetty says:

    The marriage counselling just isn’t working, it’s like flogging a dead horse. Sometimes the side clinging on for fear of change, just needs to be told, it’s over, accept it, let go. England and their government needs to accept that Scotland no longer wants the partnership, so they should start to listen, and negotiate the divorce settlement in a sensible and amicable manner. It’s what’s best for both sides.

    I know, and pigs might fly. The English government and their worker bees in Scotland really are panicking, instead of being sensible, civilised and grown up about it. I’m sure they have plenty of folk working day and night trying to come up with ideas about how to thwart the independence referendum. What a waste of energy, time, and money.

  19. Golfnut says:

    ” by pass the Claim of Right ” a pre condition of the Treaty of Union being accepted and ratified by both the English and Scottish Parliaments. The NI Protocol a clear breach of the Treaty of Union.
    They cant seem to help themselves, and now we have an English law officer threatening to interfer in any legislation introduced by the SG to progress a referendum.

  20. Bob Lamont says:

    I thought this example from John Robertson elegantly demonstrates the level of panic among Unionists https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2022/07/03/only-daily-record-daft-enough-to-accept-tory-poll-results/ as they attempt turning back what is now a tide.

    King Cnut Sarwar may be able to impress in London on his version of the Vow, but that show’s 2014 tour in Scotland is still etched in recent memory as a con, along with the footnote “Look at the small print”.
    I have not the slightest doubt if what finally became Brexit had been put to a referendum, it would have struggled for a majority even in England, they and we are stuck with it now, and England’s politics will not put it on offer.

    And yet, 8 years on from Vow1 and 6 years on from Brexit, Scots have the prospect of undoing it all and rewriting history.

    And Sarwar responds with Vow2…. 🤣

  21. Bruce MacDougall says:

    The bit that “is not binding on the next government” applies even if the same party is returned to power. Basically any promises made by Westminster only last until the next election.

  22. Jack Collatin says:

    The Fabian Society was named in honour of the Roman general Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus (nicknamed Cunctator, meaning the “Delayer”).

    His Fabian strategy sought gradual victory against the superior Carthaginian army under the Hannibal through persistence, harassment, and wearing the enemy down by attrition rather than pitched, climactic battles.

    The logo of the Fabian Society, a tortoise, represented the group’s predilection for a slow, imperceptible transition to socialism, while its coat of arms, a ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’, represented its preferred methodology for achieving its goal. The wolf in sheep’s clothing symbolism was later abandoned, due to its obvious negative connotations.

    HG Wells portrayed the Fabian Society as a talking shop for middle-class socialists, which lacked the appetite for real change.

    He was a member for some time but left to develop his own vision of a New Socialist World Order.
    The Apocalyptic horror of the Future in the Time Machine. The War of the Worlds. The Island of Dr Morerau.

    Alarmingly he dabbled in Eugenics; in A Modern Utopia, prospective married couples are offered eugenic choices rather than forced to marry a good genetic match. Wells did advocate the sterilization of genetic ‘failures’.
    As now, a wealthy elite were deciding what was good for the Great Unwashed at the turn of the last century..

    Today the Fabian society records just over 7000 members, and can list in its ranks Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Ed Ball, and blasts from the past, like Harold Wilson, GB Shaw…zzzzz.

    ‘Round about 1900, this ‘talking shop for middle class socialists’ still believed in the Empire.

    Get this argument from circa 1900:-

    “The question was whether Britain would be the centre of a world empire or whether it would lose its colonies and end up as just two islands in the North Atlantic. It expressed support for Britain in the Boer War because small nations, such as the Boers, were anachronisms in the age of empires.”

    Nowadays, the likes of Sarwar are invited along to a gathering of a couple of dozen ‘members’ in London, accompanied by the obliging Jock Hacks and their camera crews, to spout the usual Federalism nonsense yet again, his ‘tortoise’ strategy, to slow Scotland down, while Starmer storms into No 10?

    He is a not a ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’, mind.
    He is a tired old mangy wolf in wolf’s clothing.

    BBC Distorting Scotland gave him the headline of course; literally a free PPB.

    Sarwar, the millionaire dentist Cash and Carry king who sends his kids to private schools, is indeed a modern ‘middle class ‘socialist’, talking arrant nonsense.

    Starmer has thrown him and the Scottish Branch Office under the Big Brexit Bus, of course.

    At a stroke, Sarwar Dross and the Tailor’s Dummy are fighting over the votes of the 38% and falling Leavers…many of whom have experienced buyers’ remorse, and will vote YES in the Referendum.

    They have nothing to offer Scotland, except more of the same relentless English hegemony.
    Britain has lost its Empire, and is about to be, not two islands in the North Atlantic, but reduced to one nation, England, 57 million lost souls, scrunched up in the Motherland.

  23. deelsdugs says:

    Jings, just catching up with this one and in pops ‘the nail in Labour’s coffin’. On fire Paul 😁

  24. P Harvey says:

    Javid and sunak both resign 😂

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