Getting the ‘naw ye cannaes’ in early

Aaand we’re off, you can tell when the British nationalists are rattled when they wheel out “experts” to tell Scotland “Naw, ye cannae” because we’re too wee. too shtupit, too poor, too insignificant [delete as appropriate]. The latest entry in the genre has been dredged up by the Herald’s resident SNP baddist Tom Gordon, who has called upon Professor James Mitchell of Edinburgh University to provide a suitable, “But they can’t Colin, they just can’t” quote as clickbait for the British nationalist frothers who infest the comments section of a newspaper which still claims to be “neutral” on the topic of Scottish independence. That would be the rabidly SNP hating Professor James Mitchell, who has a long and inglorious record on badmouthing the SNP, the Scottish Government and Nicola Sturgeon in particular, Mitchell is impartial in exactly the same way that the Herald is neutral on the subject of Scottish independence.

The Professor is keen to let us know that there is no such thing as a de facto referendum, an election is an election he tells us, and the SNP cannot dictate the terms of the election. “But they can’t Colin, they just can’t.” However that is not what the SNP is proposing. The SNP is not in the business of telling other parties what platforms they can stand on, that would be the British nationalists who do that sort of thing. The Tories, Labour, and the Lib Dems can put whatever propositions they like before the electorate, and so can the SNP and other pro-independence parties who agree that this election is aimed at securing a mandate for independence. However if this is a de facto referendum on independence we will all be voting in full knowledge that the British nationalist parties have stripped any meaningful sense of union from the polity known as the United Kingdom and will have denied any validity to their once proud boast that the UK is a voluntary partnership of nations.

The SNP’s manifesto for the 2019 UK General Election was 52 pages long. It contained policies on health, tackling poverty and inequality, a call for the devolution of employment law, and a whole lot more besides. While it is not for me to pre-empt the SNP manifesto in a UK General Election which will be a de facto referendum on independence, I suspect that the SNP manifesto in that election will be considerably shorter, possibly just one brief sentence along the lines of “Scotland should be an independent country.” The manifestos of the other pro-independence parties may be very similar. Tom Gordon and his pet “But ye cannaes” should look up the UK General Election of 1918 because Sinn Fein did precisely that in order to secure a mandate for Irish independence at the 1918 election, if the SNP declare that a vote for them is a vote for independence and wins on that issue, no amount of British nationalist pettit lips can change the fact that Scotland will have voted for independence in a lawful vote and will have done so without the permission of the occupant of Downing Street.

Tom Gordon has got in his first “blow for the SNP” early, risible as it is. Knowing that they have lost control of the process the apologists for British nationalism are desperate to delegitimise the vote in an effort to discourage voter participation. We will be seeing a lot more of this sort of thing in the weeks and months ahead. This is what counts as a case for the union these days, at least that is what we are still calling it for now, until either Boris Johnson or the UK Supreme Court plunge a stake through its heart.

They are also trotting out their other tropes from 2014. Expect plenty of references to “Nicola Sturgeon’s referendum” just as the last time round it was “Alex Salmond’s referendum.” It’s an “SNP referendum” not an independence referendum. It suits the British nationalists to pretend that Scottish independence is wholly owned by the SNP as they try to peel off voters who might support independence but who don’t support the SNP and hope that they don’t remember that an independent Scotland will be a democracy, indeed far more democratic than this so-called union and people will be perfectly free to vote for whomever they choose.

Ever since the First Minister made her announcement there has been a lot of angry noise and deflection from the British nationalists, however not a single one has been able to give a credible alternative route to independence, because if the democratically elected Scottish Government are not able to hold the referendum that they have been elected to hold then what exactly is the democratic route to a referendum?

It’s a question that goes to the very heart of the nature of this so called union, and it’s a question that remains unanswered because the likes of Tom Gordon who are so numerous in the Scottish media are far more interested in finding “blow for Nicola Sturgeon ” quotes, however spurious or irrelevant, than they are in questioning the nature of this supposed union that they are so keen that Scotland remains a part of.

The answers to the question that they do elicit from the Tories are even more risible than Tom Gordon’s “blow for Nicola Sturgeon,” a “blow” which even if it were something substantive would not be a “blow for Nicola Sturgeon” but a blow for meaningful democracy in Scotland as a part of the UK, not that that appears to trouble the Scottish media. On Tuesday the BBC’s Glenn Campbell asked Douglas Ross what the democratic route to an independence referendum was if it is not a majority for one in Holyrood. Ross insisted that there is indeed a democratic route to another referendum but refused to say what it might involve because he’s “not in the business of helping to break up the UK”. So his position is that there really is a democratic route to another referendum but it’s a super secret one and he’s not going to tell anyone what it is because it might encourage people to use it. This arrant nonsense appeared to suffice for Glenn Campbell, who proceeded to button up the back of his head and hoped that viewers would do likewise.

Between now and the inevitable independence vote we will be seeing a lot of “blow for Nicola Sturgeon” headlines. What we won’t be seeing is a positive case for Westminster rule or a credible means by which Scotland can be guaranteed that it can get what it votes for while remaining a part of the UK, because no such case and no such guarantees exist.

That is because if the Scottish media did start to interrogate the nature of the “union” instead of allowing Douglas Ross to fob off the question with intelligence insulting drivel they would find that it is founded on a lie. The real purpose of the anti-independence Scottish media is not to hold power to account, it is to fend off independence and to deflect any potential criticism of their beloved British state. Scotland, you had your wee dalliance with democracy in 2014, you are not allowed to change your mind no matter how many lies were told in order to secure the result that the British state wanted, no matter how much circumstances have changed. Now trot along, shut up, and do what you’re told. Westminster has some human rights to strip you of. Now here’s the terribly important Andrea Leadsom to ask “What currency are you going to use?” As though that were some clever gotcha and not just her displaying her usual Tory arrogance and ignorance, an arrogance and ignorance which is a powerful argument for independence all by itself.

___________________________________________

I won’t be about tomorrow (Friday) as I have to go in to Glasgow for a disability assessment. I’ll be back blogging on Monday, by which time I’m sure that there will be plenty more British nationalist desperation to scoff at.

Many thanks to everyone who kindly supported the annual fundraiser. It’s always a nerve wracking time, I’m literally asking people to put their money where my mouth is. I’m delighted to say that the target of £5000 wasn’t just reached it was smashed. From all sources, the Gofundme page, PayPal donations, and direct donations by cheque or into my bank account, the grand total raised was an incredible £11,094. In my wildest dreams  I could not have expected it to go so well and my deepest thanks to everyone who contributed.  It is heartening to know that so many people value my writing and that there is still an appreciative audience for a positive pro-independence message that concentrates on making the case for independence and debunking the arguments of the real enemies of Scottish independence, the Conservatives and their little helpers.  That’s what I will keep doing thanks to you.

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235 comments on “Getting the ‘naw ye cannaes’ in early

  1. Melvin says:

    Great work again Paul, it’s the reaction we all expected , I am sure there will be many more similar articles .There is no positive case for the union and their lies are now well known( at least on our side) independence supporters are more educated than we were last time and we won’t saunter of into the distance and do what we are told. This is a fight for our future, we will never give up on independence, if it takes 10 referendums, we will fight until the end. I for one will never accept the British state as my country , I will never accept their control of our nation. Thank you so much for your determination and dedication to our cause, we need you.

    • Karl says:

      Independence will only be won if we focus on the constitutional changes every other country around us takes for granted. Ignore this and the merry go round of 10 future referendums will be all we have. We all know about the British State, what we need from WGD and other independence journalists is a future vision of the Scottish State not party politics. Look forward to it.

      • P Harvey says:

        Everything will be better, because WE will decide it!
        Hope this makes you “..look forward” Karl! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
        Free in ‘23

        • Karl says:

          We will decide what exactly? That is where our focus should be, yet all I see is discussion of the Tories and the anti independence.media. Where is discussion of Scotland as an independent country. Westminster refuse to discuss this core objective, surely we can do better than that!

          • grizebard says:

            There’s only one objective. We’re not going to get swallowed up in mind-numbing political minutiae like last time, a Unionist nit-pickers’ paradise. We’re not getting into the absurdity of “building Rome in a day”. It’s all about making a clear case, step by step, for why we would be better off running things for ourselves, and what’s needed just to get started. And that will be forthcoming over the next wee while, courtesy of the SG. So just haud on there.

            • Karl says:

              I hope that starts by disowning GERS so we can talk about the real economy, warts and all.

              • Tam the Bam says:

                GERS should have been ‘disowned’ long ago though I understand why the SG continue with it.
                How Kate Forbes (Scottish Finance Sec;) manages to compile budgets from incomplete data (UK Treasury have a history of releasing incomplete data-sets) goodness only knows but she makes a damn good fist of it in my opinion.

              • Golfnut says:

                What warts?

                • P Harvey says:

                  Think Karl is either depressed or speaking with forked tongue

                  • Karl says:

                    Scotland has a strong economy outside Westminster control. Disown GERS and the conversation can focus on the Scottish economy as an independent country.

                    • Pogmothon says:

                      the conversation is already focused, ON INDEPENDENCE, and will not be side tracked into any Union think tank, sponsored expert opinion, Ahh but, what’s your plan for ???, or any other Yoon ,we should do this first.

          • yesindyref2 says:

            Patience Karl, the Unionist machine is still reeling in the shock of Tuesday’s announcement, the Union is thrashing around in its death throes, and Rip Van Winkles have emerged from the woodwork like dormant scouting slaters looking for inwards decay, intent on shouting the odds telling Scotland:

            “You cannae dae that”.

            So naturally articles are being written to tell these muppets:

            “Oh YES we can, and will”.

            This week it’s the Unionist muppets, next week it’s some thrilling episodes of the Unionist Wombles:

            “Under ground, over ground
            Wombling free
            The Wombles of Wimbledon
            Common are we

            Making good use
            of the manure that we find
            The crap that the sensible
            Jocks leave behind”

            • Karl says:

              I doubt very much that Westminster are ‘reeling’ from NS announcement…its their system their rules the SG are operating under. As long as we do not confront them such as withdrawal of MPs from London , they will not worry too much.

              • yesindyref2 says:

                I didn’t say “Westminster”, I said “the Unionist machine” is still reeling.

                And it certainly is – Adam Tomkins for instance said

                “This is very good, by ⁦@iainmacwhirter
                ⁩ See you in court, but we know where it will end”

                LOL. It’s riddled with errors.

              • grizebard says:

                Oh, I see. You don’t have much sense of timing, do you? It’ll be UDI next.

                • Karl says:

                  I have just read a detailed timing breakdown of the referendum in 2023. It is not going to happen. Not achievable even with the best will in the world…from the length of time it will take to pass the referendum bill to obtaining royal assent assuming there are no hiccups along the way which is highly unlikely. ‘We will decide!’ Aye right, not until we confront the British State and I see no sign of that happening.

              • Alex Clark says:

                Deary me, are you new at this?

  2. Ah, Tom Gordon….

  3. yesindyref2 says:

    Tom Gordon’s latest wheeze to try split the YES vote in 2024 is

    “Nicola Sturgeon’s ‘de facto referendum’ will be a judgment on her”

    which is a load of bullocks, frankly.

    And someone, maybe the Herald, already wheeled out Jim Gallagher as some sort of (impartial) expert, becuse of his time with Better Together and working for the UK Government. I think he was saying we should get devolution again, but I could be wrong, I didn’t read it.

  4. yesindyref2 says:

    From the Scotsman / Herald:

    More than half of people in Scotland do not want another independence referendum next year, according to a new poll.

    but

    Associate director Chris Hopkins told the newspaper that the results on the question of whether Scotland should be an independent country are “practically neck and neck”.

    and this was all or mostly before Sturgeon’s announcement on the 28th June as:

    Savanta ComRes interviewed 1,029 Scottish adults aged 16 or over online between June 23 and 28.

    so it doesn’t include the effect of her bombshell announcement – with a DATE.

    This from Hopkins is also kind of curious:

    Nicola Sturgeon’s defiance to hold a referendum at almost any cost

    The use of language in that comment would bear psychological analysis, sounds a bit Unionist to me.

    • grizebard says:

      There are a lot of people who would not proactively want to pause from busy lives to reflect upon the constitutional situation and come to a conclusion about it, and that is reflected in the polls. But give people a firm date and most everyone will just get on with it when the time comes. So all these mischievous “date slicing” polls are totally pointless.

      If the intention is somehow to “prove” that a referendum is unpopular and unwanted, the usual suspects have been wasting their time. This is just another token of how feart they are of a real test of public opinion, one that really registers. (No wonder, after years of their broken promises!)

      In normal democratic countries which feature referendums as a commonplace, non-trivial demand is the only criterion, then it just gets done. For them, the notion that there needs to be anything like a majority first (which might then even be ignored) would be regarded as totally bonkers. Unthinkable. Laughable even.

    • Stephen McKenzie says:

      Rather embarrassingly for the Herald it’s own poll (still open), has Yes at 88% and No at 12%, at 12:00 today with just under 16,000 votes cast.

      I anticipate that the poll will just “vanish” or that the Scotland Office / SiU / Herald staff will be in full swing typing away trying to frig it.

  5. Bob Lamont says:

    Aye, the LA’s referral to the SC on the legality of a referendum certainly set the cat among the pigeons in the usual quarters.
    Even before the Tuesday announcement, Andrew Kerr was painting the SNP as striven with problems, indecisive, not knowing what to do…. Then came the statement, a clear and logical explanation of next steps – Indecision Andrew ?
    James Cook was straight out of the blocks arguing it was a “massive gamble”, this from a BBC who had been foremost in the media gambling “illegal-referendum” would not be revealed as the blatant lie it has always been.

    So no great surprise Tom Gordon would join with the other three hoarse men of the puckered lips, Sarwar, DRoss and the Tailor’s-dummy, to denounce the strategy as failed, undemocratic, etc..

    Whether by referendum or by plebiscite, the conspiracy to block measuring the opinion of Scots on independence in Scotland is cleared, and hell mend them all for trying.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      From the Herald:

      Mark Smith: How to fix the Glasgow midden

      but enough about Mark’s flat.

      • Stephen McKenzie says:

        Move the Herald and it’s staff to Grimsby..

        • Some of the Herald staff may be applying for jobs on that Lincolnshire Thunderer, The Grimsby Daily Telegraph as I type.

          Gordon, Macwhirter and Mc Kenna would be right at home down there.

          Today, in Grimsby, a tale of a woman who had to have her dog put down because it had caught a disease from her rat infested back lane.

          Another old Hoary Herald Chestnut; a man caught in his car ‘stuffed with’ drugs and cash when pulled over for a faulty tail light…There’s more…
          Tragically a woman died in Diana Princess of Wales Hospital due to being overprescribed paracetamol.

          Now Up Here,the Herald would prefix every one of these items with the usual ‘Nicola Sturgeon attacked’ ‘Nicola Sturgeon apologises’, or ‘Nicola Sturgeon under fire for’.
          Expect a deluge of woes for which NS will be blamed over the next 16 months.

          Independence will be the death of the Herald and Hootsman…that’s for sure.
          The Dark Money keeping them ticking over will dry up in a heartbeat.

        • Not-My-Real-Name says:

          Ha Ha……indeed.

          Put them beside the Fishy that I no longer buy as a dishy from Young’s…..courtesy of The Mundells…….

          • Not-My-Real-Name says:

            My reply at 12.55pm was to Stephen Mckenzie’s comment at 12.14pm

            But I enjoyed YOUR comment too Jack.

            Hope you are well…have a great day

            🙂

  6. jfngw says:

    I think we will find D.Ross’s legal route is ‘only if the parliament in England grants it’, that’s the mindset of the British Nationalist. The voters in Scotland are not relevant to them in any meaningful way.

    There outlook is also typified by Sarwar, he backs not returning to the EU as, this is my interpretation, the Brexit votes of the electorate in England must be respected, he has no interest in the result in Scotland. They are, de facto, representatives of another country in Scotland.

    Believe in Scotland, vote Yes to running our own country.

  7. bringiton says:

    How many former colonies who have separated from London rule had to come up with Plan Bs on anything.
    They put the democratic right to self determination front and centre and dealt with the mechanics of governance afterwards.
    The Plan B merchants are using fear of change to keep Scotland’s middle classes in line.
    Last time we didn’t mobilise the working class vote sufficiently as a counter to that.
    We must do better this time.

    Very amusing to hear Colin Mackay on STV news yesterday claim that Labour were very afraid of re-running the Better Together campaign.
    Oh really??
    Tell that to the voters in Edinburgh and elsewhere,where Labour have formed defacto coallitions with the Tories.

  8. yesindyref2 says:

    I found a very interesting article I never saw before, e.g.:

    It appears from this that the sage advice of the Royal Commission on Scottish Affairs (1952-54) was either overlooked or ignored by Macpherson. The advice given in that report was that when UK ministers were dealing with Scottish business (as of course the UK Treasury must if it is to serve the whole of the UK), “there should be full understanding and recognition by these ministers and by their officials that Scotland is a nation and voluntarily entered into union with England as a partner and not as a dependency”.

    https://www.lawscot.org.uk/members/journal/issues/vol-64-issue-11/the-queen-could-be-bemused/

    • Golfnut says:

      Excellent, thanks.
      The submission by the
      Independent-workers-union-Great-Britain.PDF

      in the Gina Miller appeal goes a lot further. It’s 29 pages and a PDF download which is why I’m not linking it but it can be found at

      UKSC-2016-0196.
      It’s a long read but does show that Scotland’s place in this union is neither as a colony or as a dependent.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Yes, Aidan O’Neill. A bit similar to the one he did for Keatings.

        I daresay the SG have had a good look, as also at the two similar referrals by the AG for NI (that’s NI’s guy not the UK’s) to the UKSC.

        Mind you, Sturgeon is thick as errr, something, and is taking a big gamble not having a clue what she’s doing (rolls eyes).

        • Golfnut says:

          I’m pretty certain none of the arguments used in the submission will be used by the Lord Advocate in upcoming case, but may well have an important role at the UN and International court.
          If nothing else at this point in time these things are excellent Educational tools.

  9. Welsh_Siôn says:

    Playing catch up, I know.

    But I’m joining you on this exciting journey – if you’ll allow me to.

    Best wishes,

  10. I don’t understand. Why didn’t the UK government just declare the 1918 Irish election / UDI illegal? That’s all they had to do and Ireland would still be part of the union right?

    Why the need to send in troops to stop people voting / overturn elections like dictators do?

    Is it maybe that people freely and fairly voting for something can’t be ignored? Is that why the likes of Lukashenko, Putin etc rig elections and send in the heavies to deal with the opposition?

    Asking for a panicked British nationalist.

    • They don’t need to ‘send in the troops’, s_s; they’re already here in stockades peppered throughout Scotland. No need for a gunboat to full steam ahead up from Plymouth or Falmouth either. They are already here, on the Clyde.
      Were anyone was mad enough to attempt to rise up and take our country by force of arms, ‘Oliver’s Army would be ‘on their way.’..

      ‘But there’s no danger
      It’s a professional career
      Though it could be arranged
      With just a word in Mr. Churchill’s ear
      If you’re out of luck or out of work
      We could send you to Johannesburg
      Oliver’s Army is here to stay
      Oliver’s army are on their way
      And I would rather be anywhere else but here today.”

      Although Costello has ceased singing ‘Oliver’s Army’ because of the use of the ‘N’ word in the lyric, the sentiment of the song still resonates today.

      The British Imperial Army,the Occupying Force, full of ‘out of luck or out of work’ English boys and girls, billeted in Scotland, or Norn Irn, or Jo’burg, down through the ages since Oliver Cromwall are here to stay.( Until we demand their departure following Independence.
      I doubt that Yorkshire Polis will be despatched North armed with knobkerrie clubs to bash my shrivelled old head in at the polling station. Or….?

  11. grizebard says:

    People can be surprisingly quick at sussing when something is coming unglued. So I’m thinking that this latest desperate outburst of media Indyrefsplaining by Uncle Tom Gordon, Campbell et al is so woefully off-kilter that they are actively courting that danger now. They’ve been truly “caught on the hop”, and their usual hoary old nostrums are visibly falling apart under the pressure of events. Irretrievable reputational damage to follow.

    They could be smarter and copy the Tories, who have all mysteriously fallen silent, having expeditiously crawled under the nearest stone, hoping nobody will notice.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      The Tories, who have all mysteriously fallen silent, having expeditiously crawled under the nearest stone

      _____

      … from whence they came.

  12. Dr Jim says:

    Enter the fray the *very concerned* potential independence supporters demanding to know exactly what an independent Scotland will *look* like post independence a week on Sunday at 2PM in the afternoon when it’s raining and there’s been an outbreak of panic buying Germolene and war breaks out in Gibrovia

    How will Scotland cope? Oh the calamity

    • Hamish100 says:

      It’s interesting that the unionists are so worried about post independence and what Scotland would look like. Maybe we should just repost saying “why do you care as you never cared before?” Or maybe “. Mind your own business”🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    • weegingerdug says:

      It is legitimate to ask how an independent Scotland will manage certain core issues. These are the topics that will be dealt with in future papers in the series promised by the Scottish Government and I shall of course cover them as they are published.

    • It is legitimate to ask how an independent Scotland will manage certain core issues.

      Yes, but it is impossible to give a firm answer as we do not know who will govern an independent Scotland.

      Parties can say what they’d do if they were in charge, citing examples of other countries as needed (e.g. Ireland’s brexit border boom) but that’s it. Independence isn’t about what policies Scotland will have – the electorate will decide that in elections – but about who decides its government and that’s it.

      So that should be very much the focus in the campaign. Unionists do like to get Yes bogged down with details as if every policy for decades to come must be decided before we vote.

      • Tam the Bam says:

        “Core” issues relate to the establishment of national institutions.
        e.g. A Central Bank and the creation (or not) of a national currency.

        • grizebard says:

          Indeed. The essential “nuts and bolts”. Not party politics. Indy is going to usher in a renewed democracy for all.

  13. Hamish100 says:

    I wonder if the Tory MP’s will be raising concerns at Westminster over the police crisis in England? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-61993621

    Silly me, Of course not.

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      Or the GP crisis…..

      • Or the Enquiry into the 400 plus neonatal deaths under Nottingham health Board?
        The same team who headed the Shropshire Health Board enquiry which uncovered over 200 avoidable deaths of newborns are investigating the Nottingham ‘scandal’.

        It is time that we started letting our fellow Scots know what’s happening in England as it descends into 19th Century poverty, Work House and foodbank hell.
        Via the alternative media we should compare and contrast. .A&E targets, Police, Education, and so on.
        England is dying; death by xenophobic Brexit right wing fascist nationalist suicide; we are not going off the ledge with them

  14. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Glad Anas Sarwar has come out FINALLY to help the YES side’s independence campaign…..

    Now that he has confirmed that he has adopted Starmer’s Make Brexit WORK policy via Andrew Marr LBC radio programme ( done what he’s been telt to do by HQ) thus once more confirming to voters who still may have been unsure of their , Labour’s, lurch (further) to the RIGHT ….that if they as voters Vote Labour they Get Tory……he has chosen to seek the votes of those voters one would normally associate with voting for the the Tories (the more UBER BritNat ones) , prefers to select council candidates we would normally associate with the Tories, has rubber stamped his councillors forming coalitions with Tories in councils and adopted Tory policies e.g. Brexit a policy that was instigated and (half) implemented by the Tories….now Labour will help them…AGAIN.

    Sarwar was opposed to leaving the European Union and insisted that the UK needed to stay in the single market in order to counter the Conservatives’ austerity policies….ah just like the Baroness Tory then (und DRoss)….as another who flip flops….via HQ’s command….party line first and foremost….Scotland always the bridesmaid to party HQ and the (non) Union as far as Sarwar is concerned…..like other branch office managers and their HQ managers also……I mean did he even CARE about leaving the EU ?…..or did he just jump MORE FIRMILY onto the Remain bandwagon when Scotland voted ,via a majority, to REMAIN in the EU to try and be more electable…. .NOW he only cares to save his Union so has U turned his supposed previous position as a Remainer and become a born again Brexiteer…..Halleluiah…..

    Sarwar Principles 0 – HQ Party line(and NON Union) 1

    The Tin says Labour but the contents are Tory……a case of the contents not being exactly what it said on the TIN……you buy into Labour then you are buying into Tory Tribute Act 1…..

    Cue Alex ‘F*ck You Maree’ Cole-Hamilton…it’s his turn NOW to pledge his HQ’s party line as in not seeking to rejoin the EU…..as Tory Tribute Act 2.

    So just SNP and Greens Pro Remain then …….Hmm

    • JP58 says:

      Labour are a complete mess in Scotland. They could have agreed that Scottish Parliament passing bill for Indy Referendum and then allowed individual Labour supporters to support Yes or No.
      This would have encouraged former Labour supporters to consider voting Labour again which would have benefited them whatever outcome of Referendum. Instead they continue in their death spiral in Scotland and we have to listen to English MPs espousing all sorts of I’ll informed nonsense about what poor little Scotland and it’s ‘democracy’ really need.

      • grizebard says:

        Exactly.

        Currently the new council alliances with the Tories just to spite the SNP, and when the old gang gets together again – however “hands-off” this time – for IR2, Labour are history. It’s as if the leadership have a political death wish. A curdled brew of frustrated self-entitlement and a total vacuum of ideas, when all they need to do is take the sensible way out that you suggest. We can all see that – so why can’t they?

        I would go further than you though. I suggest that a continuation of stagnation and decline at the hands of Tory England offers no prospect of revival for Labour in Scotland, because the current leadership has nothing to offer except more Mitigation Hell. A glad welcome back for the quack doctor who offers no real cure?

        The only event that gives Labour a decent chance of reviving and surviving in Scotland is independence. Labour voters should realise that and act accordingly, even if their lackustre leadership can’t or won’t.

  15. James Mills says:

    ”BLOW TO THE HERALD … Tom Gordon continues to write for The Herald ! ”

    Nicola commiserates with the failing newspaper .

  16. Dr Jim says:

    Right on cue the BBC re dig up Toodle oo the Noo the redoubtable and highly experienced anti SNP educator of us all Bryan Taylor to pontificate on the issues (sometimes in Latin) and a lady representing LBC who was solely there to repeat the *ye cannae* line of the UK government, no matter the circumstances, no matter the opinion of the people or what they voted for off she went on her made up story of how in the last election Scots didn’t vote SNP so they could have a referendum as promised, and there’s absolutely no possible way the SNP can dictate the wording in their own manifesto for a future plebiscite general election because as far as she’s concerned nobody else ever in the history of the world has a political party ever done such a heinous thing

    The Monster raving Loony party comes to mind as one of the many political parties who have stood for office on one issue, or just for a second we might all reflect on the UKs own and Englands much beloved Nigel Farage who’s entire existence and focus has only ever been on one thing, and we all know what that was, yet he and his single issue politic is acceptable in England, but not for viewers in Scotland on their own constitutional future

    Projectile anti Scotland spewing while pretending to be neutral to be ramped up to maximum effort from the media and their *experts* who strangely enough most of the time hail from universities we never heard of located in the various regions of eh, England

    I’m constantly amazed by the amount of *experts* in England who are so well versed in all things Scotland, kinda makes you wonder why they aren’t here being such *experts* on stuff

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      Sick of repeats on telly……….

      • barpe says:

        …. and of unionist repetition – and yet they still don’t yet realise how it helps us!!

        • Welsh_Siôn says:

          I don’t think they’d last longer than three seconds – perhaps I’m being charitable – if they we’re playing ‘Just a Minute’.

          Mind you, I guess in those three seconds you’d get, ‘hesitation, deviation and repition’, right enough …

  17. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m actually astonished at some of the well known posters around the place who have come straight back to YES full time. Some may take a bit longer, and who can blame them I guess, it’s been a few years in the wilderness, with one thing genuinely happening, or yet another excuse, or betrayal, depending on our point of view.

    “For my ally is the Independence, and a powerful ally it is” (Yoda)

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Seriously, it’d bring a tear to a glass e’e.

      We’re getting the band back together, and we’re unstoppable.

  18. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    I’ve just sent the script to Craig Hoy one of the underlings in the Tory branch office for his appearance tonight on the Tory channel BBC on the Pro Union debate show Question Time….to remind him to include NHS collapsing, Education collapsing, Scottish economy collapsing, SNP collapsing, Support for independence collapsing, Scotland collapsing, Forth Road Bridge collapsing, Railways collapsing, Trains collapsing, Ferries collapsing, voters collapsing and to forget that viewing figures for BBC QT is also collapsing (collapsed)….with a proviso that he does not need to elaborate on these statements aka slogans as BBC QT has a Tory friendly pro Union supporting and accommodating host who will not require him to provide evidence or comparisons with other UK countries……..to substantiate his claims…..which would put him on a proverbial shoogly peg (or rather in a precarious position….in English).

    Assured him that majority of audience will be Pro Union plants and will be placed strategically in the audience, to make it easier for the host of the programme to pick them out to make their comments, they will repeat same as him but also with no evidence, comparison or data to back up their claims…..they will also add usual tried and tested pre 2014 slogans that fully encompass the message #ScotlandIsSh*te……

    I have also included with his script a ‘Good wishes and All the best’ message from Craig’s friends at the Tory channel GB News, where he, Craig, is a REGULAR guest and so is well versed on stating above claims I have advised him to use tonight…..the old ones are the best…..

    I reminded him that as well as the majority of the audience and the host he can also rely on the Labour panel member to back him up……a tag team ……he can also rely on host interrupting SNP MSP on panel when it looks as if he is making a good point….this is effective in that it stops good point being made and is a tactic to distract person making the good point ……host will try and NOT do the same to Craig ……..and so he should be able to make allegations as and when he wants……host may have to pretend she is challenging him but will not pursue with same vigour as she pursues SNP panel member (s)……

    Signed

    Yours sincerely ( but also faithfully)

    Keir

    xxxxx

    • {; 0 ),
      NMRN.
      Hoy is yet another political failure, listory boy, ex BBC journalist…he has clearly selfpenned his own rather sparse Wiki entry,
      Lobbying for nuclear in Scotland..speciality Beers and pubs..
      Cue Bruce and Grady sex scandal…the education failures och , you know the script.
      Dying flies tonight.

      • Dr Jim says:

        Why in the flying feathers do we participate in these clown shows?

      • Hamish100 says:

        Mention the Westminster MP who has been charged under English law for a serious sexual charge. Remind them we are not subject to their restrictions I believe and they will move on to Prince Charles love of suitcases.

    • Dr Jim says:

      It’s shocking that to this day there are folk who still can’t get it round their head that the BBC and other broadcasters are not impartial, the BBC in particular because we pay for them is the most insulting, they’re exactly the same as GB news, just more polite in delivering the same message

      Folk the world over understand that other countries news broadcasters are either state controlled or politically biased and yet can’t seem to grasp it’s no different here, on the scale of trust in accurate unbiased news service the BBC comes in at 28th in the world

      • Bob Lamont says:

        As previously stated, the media in it’s ENTIRETY conspired to present a Scottish referendum as “illegal” despite it being being “unproven” in Law, as the LA’s referral to the SC proves beyond any shadow of a doubt.
        We have a decade of false statements to throw back at the BBC in particular, Glenn Campbell specifically, a possibility of a scoop by Gary Robertson or Martin Geissler or Laura Webster or James Cook ignored by the “state broadcaster” as they are complicit in the scam..

  19. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Just watched a video online of Peston show with Kim Leadbetter MP for Bately and Spen..telling Peston what, in her opinion , Scotland NEEDS or rather does NOT NEED as in another referendum….see there is the problem right there…. they TELL us what they think WE need and do NOT need…… but never actually (want to) LISTEN to US …EVER…..and when we do try and TELL them what we NEED, do not NEED ,WANT and do not WANT……I believe then when we speak up, or those who represent us at WM speak for us, we and they are ignored and advised to….. tell someone who gives a …you know what.

    It was awful what happened to her sister and for that she truly gets my sympathy as what happened to her sister Jo Cox should never happen to anyone…..also thoughts go out to her family and friends to suffer such a tragic and totally unnecessary loss……

    However as tragic as that was and still is…… I am still not going to ALLOW her to add to the many unwanted, unhelpful and misleading statements where according to her ” For the SNP to go straight back to Independence it’s not fair on the country”……AND then not specify WHAT country she was referring to……and to talk about something being ” Not fair”…..is a tad ironic given we in Scotland via a majority did not WANT or NEED Brexit but have had to tolerate it because of her UK……in a classic example of Unfairness…..next she will be saying she thinks we, Scotland, NEED Brexit (and want it)……

    I await the Kitchen Sink being asked it’s opinion….when it too is thrown into the debate……

    Still …they think they are swaying opinion here in their favour …..where as they are most likely alienating people here who may be asking ‘Why is Scotland suddenly the focus of all of the media and politicians attention when normally we are the least referred to or considered part of their UK ( together with wales) ?

    Of course should WE dare to try and advise people like Kim what we DO really NEED and really WANT as in another referendum I suspect it will fall on deaf ears…….as her and others job is to tell us how it should be, will be and as politicians that serve in WM …well they are in charge so they know best…..no power to the people we need to yield to THEM and their so called Mother of all parliaments….always.

    I feel like Scotland is treated by them as if an errant child that they think they can control and scold whenever it either wants to do something or tries to do something independently without permission from it’s parent(s)……….well we have grown up and have now matured to such an extent that we have adopted an independent mind to seek our own fortune in the world and no longer are NEEDING (Never did) or WANTING (Never did) to be controlled by an over possessive way too clingy parent…who does not know when to LET GO……….Now is The Time for us to GO…..pity that the parent in this (non) relationship was themselves too afraid to be left to go it ALONE.

    ps. Lisa Nandy thinks Nicola Sturgeon has a brass neck……perhaps also thinks it compliments her own brass cheek…..

    • grizebard says:

      Ah, more Anglosplaining. They have no clue just how much we “love” being told what’s best for us. But then, it’s for home consumption really. To reassure the English that, despite the mounting evidence, they are still in control of something.

    • JP58 says:

      Yes – I saw that last night too. She has opted to become an MP and should therefore be treated as any other MP (regardless of the horrific murder of her sister).
      This shows how little many MPs outside Scotland have any understanding of Scottish political affairs.
      If it is any conciliation when listening to them spouting nonsense the sight of politicians outside Scotland basically telling us what we really need in a very patronising way can only upset Scottish viewers and will not help No side.

  20. James Mills says:

    Breaking News !
    BBC Question Time from Inverness has been delayed due to traffic congestion delaying the coach carrying the audience from Morningside .

  21. Latest Comres for the NorthBritishToryman

    For a snap, plan-free, possibly ‘illegal’, ‘wildcat’ referendum held tomorrow…

    As Yes2 noted, the data is pre-announcement.

  22. Looks like the Queens moved here now. 🙂

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62001091

    The Queen has taken part in her third event in four days during her visit to Scotland.

    Of course it’s us Scots paying her leccy bill for the palace. For that, we get to sit in the cold and dark.

  23. Dr Jim says:

    It’s hilarious these days looking round the Twittersphere where the only divisive atmosphere that the opposition claims is happening is directed at Independence supporters and not the other way round
    So the DRoss and Sarwar accusations of dividing our country are true but it’s them who are doing all the dividing

    And from England we have the simultaneous yet opposite reasons for hating Scotland, on the one hand they hate us for existing and being a great drain on their UK union while holding the view that we cannot be *allowed* to be independent from it if or when we want to

    An outsider looking in on this would have to come to the conclusion that it’s the UK and England who are terrified of being left alone to fend for themselves, I suppose leading to the embarrassment of having no one else to lean on or blame for decisions taken in that country they might have to revert to calling England, because longer term Northern Ireland will go so they’ll only have Wales left, and is that still something they can call UK? who knows? but what will the Welsh begin to think I wonder? hmm?

    I hear HM the Queen has asked the FM if Andrew can have sanctuary in Scotland, we do have a number of fixer upper Bothys available

  24. Hamish100 says:

    Will Plaid Cymru and the parties in the north of Ireland think that using the U.K. GE may be something they would like to consider just like UKIP?

    That would really annoy the unionists and therefore has a lot going for it. Lol 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇮🇪

    England might wish to show how they can stand on their own 2 feet? 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Ok maybe not.

  25. Golfnut says:

    Just watched the FM interview by Kate Burley.
    😠

  26. Hamish100 says:

    Another bites the dust.

    Should the Met Police issue a questionnaire?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62002088

    • Alex Clark says:

      That didn’t take too long, poeple in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

      THE TORY Party deputy chief whip has sensationally quit tonight after allegedly drunkenly groping two men last night, The Sun can reveal.

      In a bombshell resignation letter, Chris Pincher admitted he had “embarrassed myself and other people” after boozing too much.

      Boris Johnson musr resign!

      https://archive.ph/ReJSK

  27. Hamish100 says:

    Metropolitan Police must investigate so they aren’t seen as being political puppets of the Tory party.

    I know, I know….. lol

  28. Hamish100 says:

    Do the Tory papers and bbc Scotland deem his actions as alleged sexual assault based on their interpretation on previous alleged incidents? I think they should tell us.

  29. Hamish100 says:

    So on QT we have 3 unionists plus a unionist chair and 2 independence supporters.

    Time we say 50 / 50 or not at all.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      … and a Tory party activist in the audience spotted and exposed by Angus Robertson.

      Well spotted Angus!

      • Robert Oliphant says:

        You got further than me then, I switched off after Bruce’s first intervention less than a minute into Angus Robertson’s first answer!

  30. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Just read a good Tweet :

    “Boris Johnson returns after 8 days abroad to face questions of why put a man in charge of party discipline who’d already been forced to quit over allegations of sexual misconduct, only for him to quit a second time over allegations of sexual misconduct”

    Hmm what another scandal for Boris ……colour me surprised.

    Also the story doing the rounds about Boris Johnson and his then bit on the side Carrie (pre becoming his wife) caught in a compromising position aka a s*x (e not i letter) act …..at the time he was trying to get her, Carrie, a well paid position ( no pun intended) …..for a job that some say she, Carrie, was unqualified for…while his then wife was at home surviving from Cancer.

    But Hey Patrick Grady is THE only story in town…for a prolonged period….equal to same length of time as some soap operas have been running……they wish…..and apparently seemed NOT FULL story revealed re report/investigation findings on this via media (omissions that were important)
    …..certainly leaves a lingering smell……..

    Biased I may be but kinda seems a case of comparing Apples and Pears …….considering the succession of sex scandals associated with Tory MP’s ( and remember also that Aberdeen Tory councillor too who would not stand down from the council and has now been placed on the s*x Offenders register )…….I’ve lost count of how many there are now involved in s*x scandals…..Tory politicians that is.

  31. Alex Clark says:

    Turkish President shows respect for BJ as Prime Minister of the UK at NATO summit.

    • Dr Jim says:

      That’s not respect, he was trying the Vulcan nerve pinch, but that only works on normal humans and not psychopaths

      • Alex Clark says:

        That’s absolutely ripping the pish, Johnson is seen as a clown on the world stage and this proves it. No one would dare do that to Joe Biden.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Oh no!….not the dreaded Turkish Vulcan Death Grip!

  32. yesindyref2 says:

    Ha, I seem to have headlined the National front page earlier

    https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2022/06/30/getting-the-naw-ye-cannaes-in-early/comment-page-1/#comment-170614

    “YES WE CAN”

    Seriously, it’s important to post, as we never know who is reading and getting ideas, maybe even tasting opinions. And that goes for lurkers too …

  33. rongorongo says:

    Poorly colour matched Phil from YouTube channel “A Different Bias” talks about the roadmap for Scottish independence:

    Phil is a Labour supporter – and his video is a poorly researched effort which seems to take the line “here is what the Tories should do to thwart the SNP’s defence of democracy”. What is interesting here is reading the comments on the video – which almost all take the Scottish Government’s side.

    • Another ‘does he take sugar?’ ramble from an Englishman.
      ‘Phil’ just rambles all over the place on this one.
      His slip was showing when he starts doling out advice to the Tories on how to thwart Scotland’s sovereign rights. Red and blue Tories Bitter Together.
      Labour, the Red Tories, dead since Mandelson Blair and Brown butchered the party.
      What a patronising piece from the man from ‘The North’ of England.
      We are taking our country back, ‘Phil’.
      Our patience has run thin.
      There is no ‘wedge’ between Scotland and the Rest of the UK.
      We in Scotland, are a sovereign nation now. We have borders and stuff. England is down there; Scotland is Up Here. No ‘wedge’ is being ‘driven’ between the two nations., just a border, like that ‘twixt France, Belgium, Norway Sweden…no ‘wedges’ anywhere.
      Thanks for calling, Phil. Now feck off back to the Motherland.
      You don’t really have a say on thee future of Scotland…sad that you as an exceptionalist Englishman do not realise this harsh reality.
      We are breaking up your precious Imperial Union.
      Up the workers, my arse.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      I had just watched Phil’s take on it and commented that he had totally misread what has happened and may happen.
      I don’t read his take as trying to thwart anything, but he does not understand that the LA’s referral to the Supreme Court is a legal clarification by an established legal mechanism not a Court case, and that SG have in reality boxed Johnson into a corner and called his bluff.

      Agreed that BTL comments are supportive and see the current situation as both undemocratic and unjust – This pretty much reflects polling on the English public view, the complete opposite to that taken by the political and media classes.

      • Bob, I do not care what English commentators think.
        I have no need for their approval or otherwise.

        In years to come, we shall reflect on the fact that we allowed foreigners to oppress our country.
        I’ve had my fill., or should that be ‘Phil’.

        I don’t give a daman what any of them think.
        They don’t have skin in the Scottish game as far as I’m concerned.

        • Bob Lamont says:

          Sorry Jack but I was highlighting what we oftentimes miss behind the political and media noise, the general public are wholly supportive of Scots having a referendum, they are not offering approval but support.

          • Bob,
            I’m fairly ok in French.
            What would French folk think if I were to produce a piece on French political comings and goings, ‘supporting’, well, any political viewpoint Over There, and offering this as ‘support’….?
            Qui est-il, cet homme d’Ecosse? Merde. Va te faire foutre, would be the politest response which I could expect.
            The mental set that I should tolerate an Englishman’s view on our march to independence is risible.
            He’s not offering support. He speaks with the air of a man who considers that England has control over my country’s fate.
            Instinctively, he sees himself as the dominant force…we are his colony.
            He is New Labour; he is the ‘enemy at the gate’ dragging a Trojan Horse behind.

            We don’t need ‘support’. We have a democratic mandate.
            Let’s fucking do it.

            • Capella says:

              There are many decent English people IMO who do have a view on world affairs that is totally at odds with the MSM narrative. Maybe the majority. I think that’s quite legitimate. My view is that most English people are oppressed by their Norman overlords but they don’t realise it. “False consciouness” as we used to say. So they internalise Norman superiority. “The ruling values are the values of the ruling class”, as we also used to say.

              Our problem is the Scottish cringers who have internalised an inferiority complex through years of subliminal media training, from the media owned and ruled by said overlords.

              • Tam the Bam says:

                Your final paragraph hits the nail on the head Capella.

              • Not-My-Real-Name says:

                “Our problem is the Scottish cringers who have internalised an inferiority complex through years of subliminal media training, from the media owned and ruled by said overlords”.

                Nail…Hit…Head

                Have a nice day Capella

              • Bob Lamont says:

                Yep.

            • James says:

              Ultimately he like anyone else is perfectly entitled to have his views on Scottish Independence, you might not like it but doesn’t change that fact.

              If you look around the internet now you will find thousands of people commenting on the politics of a country they don’t live in following the Roe vs Wade reversal in the States. They are entitled to do that equally they are entitled to comment on Scottish Independence if they so wish.

              • grizebard says:

                Though it does help if they are well-informed.

              • Which is basically impossible unless you live in Scotland.

                Roe vs Wade is quite different, as it is abortion is an issue affecting all countries. It’s more a discussion around that rather than around the specific US case.

                As for independence, the people of every country in the world think it is the best thing for them.

                • Bob Lamont says:

                  “the people of every country in the world think it is the best thing for them” – Except a subset in England who command media and political thinking…

      • rongorongo says:

        It is the BTL comments that really interest me: Phil is a Labour-supporting opponent of Scottish independence – but his channel does provide pretty good analysis of Westminster politics and hence he has some well formed commentators. What is revealing to me is both that these people are seeing what is really happening – and also that the answer to “Tell me all the ways that Scotland would benefit from remaining in the union?” is ….[tumbleweed]. Successful political campaigns need to be built on supporting truths and in 2014 BT did have candidates: uncertainty about elements such currency and extraction from the EU hurting the economy for example. Right now it really does seem the unionists have nothing beyond bluster and wilful ignorance.

        • Golfnut says:

          There’s no argument regards currency, were using the pound ( Sterling ) until the dust settles.

        • Bob Lamont says:

          Correct

          • Tam the Bam says:

            “Until the dust settles.”

            Agreed but strictly on a temporary basis whilst transition is in progress.
            A Central Bank and currency are both essential in my opinion.
            I’m damned if I’ll support a policy that tethers this nations growth expectations and possibilities to a BofE chaired by a glorified (and failing) casino croupier in perpetuity.

            • Golfnut says:

              Just until we get our share of the assets and that includes the bank of England.

            • grizebard says:

              I will be surprised if that isn’t what will essentially be proposed when that aspect is covered. Thinking has evolved substantially since 2014.

              • Duggers, we’ll have more EU suitors than Odysseus’ wife, Penelope, when they realise that Scotland is once more a sovereign nation.
                I’m sure there shall be Transitional Arrangements from the Get Go, a MOU on free trade, freedom of movement and realignment of our laws in advance of a fairly straightforward re-entry into the EU.
                Thatis, of course, if the people of Scotland opt for full EU entry following our first Scottish GE in over 300 years.
                I’ve observed before that many of the firms now in England will look to Head North and relocate in Scotland, once more part of the 550milion trading bloc.
                There shall be a border and customs between England and Scotland of course….
                Our version of the Protocol if you like.
                Retaining the pound will only be a transient measure.
                Our own currency is a must.
                GBP has tanked since Brexit and never recovered.
                Why would we tag ourselves to a lame duck currency for any longer than necessary?
                They’ll be flooding in with their plans, proposals and welcome Back Packs.
                Our whisky, our fish, our beef, our green technology…
                Ours, at lsat, once more.
                Can’t wait.

  34. Hamish100 says:

    On bbc Ulster just now. Why Scotland can’t have a referendum.

    • See my post to Bob above, Hamish.
      They are scared sh1tless.
      They know that Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, are leaving England to their own self inflicted hell…

  35. Hamish100 says:

    Yip – you can catch up on the Nolan Show discussion on iplayer. The Ulster unionists are not happy. Usually a good sign.
    The arguments against independence and how to govern was lost on some of them.

    Isn’t their assembly not working due to the political shenanigans of the DUP. NI worse in the U.K for its NHS but has the benefit of being linked with the EU to our detriment.

  36. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    As we , here in Scotland, are being told Now is NOT the Time to have another referendum as there is a cost of living crisis….and £20 million is a waste of money on it….Really ?

    316 MPs each claimed back an average of £1,138 for their utility bills last year.

    Michael Fabricant claimed £1,334
    Edward Leigh claimed £2,332
    Lucy Allan claimed £4,552
    Matt Hancock claimed £4,800

    So as we are also being told that £20 million is a waste of money for another independence referendum…here’s some spending (waste) Tories have done via Tory HQ…..

    THE Tory government wasted almost £9 billion of taxpayers’ cash through the Covid pandemic, its own figures have revealed…..That total may not tell the whole story, but includes £8.7bn written off by England’s Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) in its newly published 2020-2021 accounts……. £8.7 billion the Department of Health wasted on unusable PPE and now being BURNED.

    Tories wasting billions of tax-payer money on Covid contracts with their mates……

    The Tories spent £100,000s of Covid cash to conduct pro-Union polling….on a POLL they will NOT release the findings of….Hmm must be good for the Union then…NOT

    A feasibility study that found a bridge or tunnel between Northern Ireland and Scotland would be too expensive to build cost taxpayers nearly £900,000….as sanctioned by Boris Johnson.

    AROUND £64 billion of public cash has been “wastefully spent or dubiously allocated” since Boris Johnson became prime minister.

    The Government has blown £14.7billion of public money on “wasteful” projects, crony contracts and duff deals…..

    Corporate media has been awash with the story of Rishi Sunak wasting £11bn by making a basic accounting error…..

    Rishi Sunak spent £500,000 of public cash to ‘repair his image’ via focus groups and polls.

    £900,000 of taxpayers’ money was spent painting the PM’s plane on top of £100,000 decorating No.10 with works of art bought through the Government Art Collection fund. ……

    Analysis reveals around £3.6bn in public contracts have been handed to firms linked to individuals in government or the Conservative Party since Mr Johnson became Prime Minister.

    Last March it was revealed the Government spends more than £500,000 a year ferrying ministerial papers around Whitehall in chauffeur-driven cars.

    In February, the Tories approved spending up to £600,000 in legal fees defending its decision to award a Covid-19 opinion polling contract to Public First run by associates of Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings. The contract itself was worth £840,000 and was not put out to competitive tender. The same goes for a further £580,000 of political polling by Hanbury Strategy – also run by associates of Mr Cummings.

    Then there were a raft of contracts handed to firms with links to the Tory Party, MPs or ministers.

    A £2.1m school technology deal in October 2020 went to Specialist Computer Centres which is owned by the Rigby Group that has donated a total of £105,000 to Conservative coffers since 2017.

    Meller Designs, co-owned by a party donor at the time, got £160m deals to provide PPE without competitive tender. It later emerged the firm was referred to the ‘VIP lane’ for contracts by Gove, to whom firm boss David Meller had donated cash.

    Alleged VIP PPE contracts linked to Michelle Mone ….where alleged that Mone appears to have been instrumental in PPE Medpro being entered into the “high priority” VIP lane…NEWLY released documents show that Michael Gove was involved in the negotiations through which a PPE company affiliated with Tory peer Michelle Mone managed to secure lucrative government contracts…….a company that was awarded £203 million worth of contracts after Mone referred it to the Cabinet Office in May 2020……..The documents show private emails being used for governmental business and link Gove to the PPE Medpro scandal – a company that was awarded £203 million worth of contracts AFTER Mone referred it to the Cabinet Office in May 2020.

    The emails, published by the Guardian, show Mone writing to Theodore Agnew at the apparent request of the Levelling Up Secretary (Gove) . Agnew is a British businessman, Conservative life peer and former minister of state at the Cabinet Office and Treasury. Mone wrote: “Michael Gove has asked me to urgently contact you.” , with the subject line “Face masks protection against coronavirus”. She went on: “We have managed to source PPE masks through my team in Hong Kong. They have managed to secure 100,000pcs per day of KN95 which is equivalent to N95 or FFP2….”In order to commit to this 100,000pcs per day could you please get back to me asap as freight will also need to be secured.

    “Hope to see you in The House of Lords when we get out of lockdown”.

    “Kindest Regards, Michelle”….

    Sent on May 8, 2020, Mone’s email was responded to by Agnew on the same day. He wrote back: “Thank you for your kind offer. I am forwarding this onto the appropriate PPE workstream with Dept of Health…”They will ask you some basic questions on the details of the offer and then hopefully progress it from there”…..”Best wishes, Theodore.”

    “Two weeks after the exchange, PPE Medpro was awarded two contracts worth £203m. Mone has since denied her connection with the company, with her lawyers stating she “was not connected to PPE Medpro in any capacity” and accusing the Guardian’s reporting as being “not based on accuracy”…………In April 2022 the London home of Tory peer Michelle Mone has been raided as part of a police fraud probe into multi-million pound PPE deals……………Most of the media applied a blackout on this story….and as yet no conclusion re Police investigation.

    See that £37 billion on Test and Trace the Tories spent..note THAT it is never lauded by the Tories in respect to what they did during the pandemic …they ONLY mention the bestest like EVER anywhere in WHOLE world British (Really ?) ONLY Tory vaccine roll out (Tories apparently did it NOT the NHS staff)….that’s because the Test and Trace via the Tories was sourced to a PRIVATE company and was determined to be a FAILED system……also NO breakdown what £37 billion was spent on……Dido Harding is now conspicuous by her absence from the political arena….

    So £20 million for another Independence referendum….seems cheap to me when one considers ALL of the above……I mean if we are talking about wasting money and prioritising more important matters well I think the Tories need lessons on that considering the above misuse and abuse of money via THEM…..

    Conservative and Unionist party waste money, abuse OUR cash paid via OUR taxes , expect us all to tighten OUR belts, not ask for wage rises etc …while they spaff up the wall money that will benefit THEM and those politicians , HOL members and DONORS to THEIR party….jobs for the boys and money for the boys (and girls)…Tory boys and girls and OUR money…..and the above waste of money not an exhaustive list by ANY means

    Oh but why independence……why indeed ????????????

  37. This is one of those comments which has the edgy potential to have Paul K reach for the panic button, so I apologise for spraying my prose with a generous dollop of cautious adverbs, like ‘reportedly’, or ‘allegedly’, and descriptions of events couched in walking on egg shells language, with the occasional euphemism, of the ‘nudge nudge, wink wink, know what I mean, squire’ variety thrown in.

    Sex scandals.

    The grubby sweaty little hacks and broadcasters have squeezed about three weeks’ of sludge headlines out of the Grady Gropegate. (I know, Paul, near the knuckle.)

    Now we have:-

    “Pressure is mounting on the Conservative party to withdraw the whip from Chris Pincher after allegations he groped two men on a drunken night out.”

    Apparently this is not the first time that Pincher (Oh, Jaisus, what an unfortunate surname.) has been caught out groping drunkenly again.
    He was at it in 2017, apparently, allegedly, reportedly.

    I look forward to Alister Jack being grilled by Glenn Campbell the BBC Scotland Sex and Sleaze Editor to-night on Distorting Scotland, asking if the Governor General of the Scottish Colony will demand that Johnson withdraw the whip from Pincher, the pincher..

    Johnson must be shocked by this man’s alleged sexual transgressions, surely?

    After all, he is the PM and must set high standards of behaviour in public life.

    Pincher must go.

    But, wait; allegedly stories about Johnson’s sexual dalliances when Foreign Secretary refuse to go away.
    Reportedly, but immediately quashed, Johnson allegedly wanted to give the then, Carrie Symonds, the £100 k a year job as Head of Communications at the Foreign Office when he was Foreign Secretary.

    It is alleged in Private Eye and elsewhere, that an MP distrurbed, allegedly, reportedly, so the rumour goes, Johnson and Symonds in his parliamentary office, and witnessed the two of them in the ‘performance of a sex act’, allegedly, reportedly, apparently.
    It is also reported that Johnson was still married to his middle wife, and that this shock horror episode confirmed the rumours that the FS and Symonds were engaged in an adultrous affai… allegedly,

    She didn’t get the job, reportedly.

    This account of this outrage and sackable episode, if true, and I couldn’t possibly contribute to the veracity of these allegations one way or t’other, passed by, almost without comment.

    Is it me? Have I gone mad? Is this behaviour from politicians (allegedly) acceptable?
    Are there no ethical or moral values left in London?
    Johnnson is Caligula. Westminster a cocaine fuelled orgy? I ask, not allege.

    Let’s see the Sunday Mail headlines this Sunday coming.

    What does Dross think about the moral disintegration of his Party?

    We’ll never know..will we, allegedly, reportedly, truthfully?
    The Rise and Fall of the English Empire. There’s a book in it somewhere.

  38. Dr Jim says:

    England: We love and value you as equal partners in a union together
    Scotland: We’re not happy so we’re going to leave the union
    England: We hate you because you feel that way and we’re not allowing you to leave

    • “England: We love and value you as equal partners in a union together
      Scotland: We’re not happy so we’re going to leave the union
      England: We hate you because you feel that way and we’re not allowing you to leave”

      Surely that’s
      England: We love you (not to mention all those wonderful assets you have) despite the fact you feel that way so we’re not allowing you to leave

  39. yesindyref2 says:

    Good article from Richard Walker in the National. E.g. this:

    What They Say: “You don’t have a mandate.’’

    What They Mean: “Of course you have a mandate but [we] will continue to change the terms of engagement to argue that you have not.’’

    If he stays away from far left potentially divisive policies, he’s good 🙂

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/20248120.decipher-nonsense-unionists-response-indyref2/

    • grizebard says:

      In other words, it is an ongoing attempt to bluff us out of our legitimate rights. The time-honoured tactic of the crooked exploiter.

      The shame of Scotland is all those who collude with this for what they perceive is narrow party political gain. Ultimately self-defeating: a bigger share of steadily-diminishing influence and well-being. And doubly so, because once exposed, they don’t even get a bigger share, they get a smaller one.

      Nota bene, all faithful Labour supporters.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        And I like his format: “What they say … what they mean”.

        Another good article, this from Cherry, for instance:

        I don’t fancy the English Attorney General Suella Braverman’s chances much if she ever goes head-to-head with our Lord Advocate, Dorothy Bain QC.

        I took this out if its context in the article, but my little research into Bain says she wasn’t appointed because she was a woman, she was appointed because she’s good.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        I stopped a bit short there in the quote, after that:

        That could well happen. The UK Government has two weeks to decide whether to be heard on the Lord Advocate’s reference and its likely they will. I understand the parties will then have 28 days to adjust their written legal cases. There could be preliminary issues including argument as to whether or not the court should wait until it sees the finished product of the bill passed by Holyrood before giving its opinion. If they agree to go ahead, the hearing is likely to be in the autumn with a decision before Christmas.

        THIRD parties could seek permission to intervene and have their legal arguments heard if they can show this in the public interest. For example, someone might want to do that to run the arguments that were advanced in the Keatings case last year, but which failed as premature, hypothetical and academic in the absence of a bill. Exciting times lie ahead and not just for legal geeks like me.

        Some of the rest perhaps should have been left unwritten. There’s no “I” in YES.

  40. Hamish100 says:

    Sarwar should listen to his counterpart Drakeford in Wales. If a party has a mandate for a referendum then they are entitled to hold a referendum.

    Democracy can be simple.

  41. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    The way the media will try and thwart independence is to give a majority platform to those who are pro Union whose message will be a concoction of……promises for FURTHER powers desperate trolls, doomsday prediction trolls, patronising concern trolls, condescending concern trolls, dismissive trolls, manipulating trolls, attention seeking trolls, angry trolls, broken record trolls, superior pompous trolls, bored trolls, High Brow trolls and that’s only the Unionist politicians !!!

    We will also have a line up of individuals from dubious funded Think Tanks, Has Beens that never should have been ex Unionists politicians, HOL members who sit unelected in a chamber (pot) with the assumption they can dictate what should be, contrary to Scottish (via a majority) public opinion, done with Scotland, Political editors from Pro Tory and Pro Labour newspapers, Z list celebrities whose only contact with Scotland is starring in a Panto here yet , like many, state what THEY feel is best for Scotland, A Fedora wearing Mega mouthed Sh*t stirrer who will , through the performance of MIME and PURRING like a Cat, presume to tell Scotland what is best for it while he himself was unable to reach those same Scots himself in a election thus he failed to be elected to OUR parliament in 2021 (an individual who veers Left to Right dependent on what potentially could be in it for HIM), an ex Royal Butler whose current career is one that milks his former career telling us that we, Scotland, only have LAKES and a Monster (Loch Ness) to boast about, embittered ex Scottish (INO) Labour MP’s who lost their seats to the SNP and one who now helps run an organisation to keep Scotland in the (non) Union and also thus helps the Tory UK government stay in power….while the other one is also an embittered ex Labour MP who now votes Tory and works for the Tories on a nudge nudge wink wink ADVISORY role……this above list is certainly NOT an exhaustive one as there will be much more both NEW and OLD faces starring in News programme where YOU are, THEY are and also on dubious TV channels and debate shows too…. obvs

    So I suggest to ALL Scottish people and others in Scotland who HAVE a vote……ask yourself Why do they REALLY do this , Why should we believe them, What is the alternative if you vote NO, Have things been better since 2014 in their UK, How do they know what will happen in a situation i.e. Scottish independence that has never happened before in this particular time with ALL of the changes and advantages/resources etc Scotland now has, Do you want to be in the EU if so what do you see as the best way of doing that……see lots of questions but to get the answers you cannot just rely on ONE source provided by the MSM ..a source that is opposed to the argument for independence…..YOU must educate yourself via the facts/information online…..MSM and Pro Unionist supporters will mislead, omit, exaggerate the negatives, make false promises , false assumptions, manipulate, dismiss, patronise and do their best to present many red herrings and obstacles that they themselves will try to implement and enforce while simultanously OMITTING ALL that is currently being done and has been done via a UNIONIST UK government……..democracy is the LAST thing they want us, the people, to have via our sovereignty…….they only want those who are Unionist politicians to have ALL the power, control and money …….as in those politicians we, via a majority, do NOT choose to elect…….so with all that do you , as someone who lives in Scotland, think you will be seen as sane, logical and brave if you fall into the many traps laid by the Pro Union gang in choosing to stay in their UK in 2023 Indy Referendum vote? ……while the current evidence ( and our own eyes and ears too) supports just how damaging that is for us NOW and will be for us all in the future.

    The UK is a Unionist construct well past it’s sell (out) by date……best we choose to go before it is too late to repair all the damage they have done and will still do in the future…..

    Independence 19 October 2023……….vote YES…..it really is THE best and ONLY option for us.

    Sorry once again for length of comment……

    • JoMax says:

      Don’t forget the fear factor, NMRN, which is currently being ramped up in parts of the media – ‘Russia is a major threat to the UK and World War III has already started” scream some headlines. This will be the other way to keep many in Scotland on tenterhooks and fearful of ‘going it alone’.

      Whatever happened to that man of many parts, George Robertson? Will he be wheeled out again?

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Aye indeed JoMax…but if they were REALLY listening and watching they would have more of a “fear factor” of staying in the UK than for independence…

        Of course with the MSM and their continued OMERTA aka NOT reporting or omitting facts and figures on all things BAD via being a part of this (non) Union courtesy of any UK Govt ,but very much , THIS particular Tory UK Govt just now ….while simultanously doing the same (Omerta) for all things GOOD via OUR Scottish government…Well it would be a different story surely ….that is why I suggest going online…..listening to the RIGHT people in the RIGHT places and avoiding the WRONG people in the WRONG places…..

        Have a lovely evening……it’s….FRIDAY…glug glug etc etc

        🙂

        • JoMax says:

          Oh, I don’t know, NMRN. Alcohol never touches my lips …………….. just goes straight down my throat. Ye know whit we Scots are like! 🙂

          • Not-My-Real-Name says:

            Ha Ha….mine too…..BUT……

            I actually I have a confession….my tipple is non alcoholic wine…the Placebo effect….works for me……I only have a REAL drink at Xmas and New Year….I deserve a sainthood…I mean NOT drinking alcohol….AND I live in the UK…under a Tory UK government…..and DRoss, Sarwar and Alex ‘F*ck You Maree’ Cole-Hamilton sit in a parliament in MY country…..

            I need a drink (a Real one).

            Call me Saint Not-My-Real-Name.

            😉

            • NMRN, Jomax,

              “Work is the curse of the drinking classes.”
              O Wilde
              Oscar also acknowledged the need for an ‘occasional alcoholiday’.

              ‘Home is fine and orgies are vile, but a man (sic) needs an orgy once in a while.’
              Ogden Nash.

              My attempt to cheer us all up, this bleak Friday night while Sally Mag is on Distorting Scotland right now reminding us that Scotland is Sh1te.

              Police on ‘work to rule’.
              Covid cases 1 in 18 in Scotland, the worst rate in the UK, followed by our young islanders can’t afford to buy on rent on their own island.
              You can always rely on Old Torn Face to run Scotland down.

              I’ll close by quoting Mark Twain:-

              “If you don’t read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed.”

              Magnusson on TV is merely the modern version of Samuel L Clemens’ barb at the hacks of his time.
              I need a drink.
              Have a great Friday nicht, Duggers.

              • Not-My-Real-Name says:

                Aye Jack….my drinking days are done…..stone cold (sometimes miserable ) sober…24/7

                You ALWAYS cheer me up Jack….

                You have a great Friday nicht too and also others on here

                🙂

          • Tam the Bam says:

            ” Mishin’ lister (hic)…..ur u infectin’ am under the affluence of incahol? (hic).

            • ‘I only drink to make other people look interesting.’ Ernest Hemingway.
              That’s me finished for the night.

              • Not-My-Real-Name says:

                “I’m only ever sober when I’m not drunk” (works other way too obvs)……

                Quote from me once….when I was drunk……many many years ago.

  42. Welsh_Siôn says:

    I proclaim this to be good news:

    https://nation.cymru/culture/the-proclaimers-praise-dafydd-iwans-yma-o-hyd-as-they-tell-wales-to-fight-for-independence/

    The Proclaimers praise Dafydd Iwan’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ as they tell Wales to ‘fight for independence’

    01 Jul 2022 2 minute Read

    The Proclaimers have praised Dafydd Iwan’s anthem ‘Yma o Hyd’ as they said they would “without a doubt” want independence if they came from Wales.

    In an interview with the magazine Golwg, they said said Wales’s needed to form a “mass social movement” in which people “acted, voted and campaigned” for independence.

    They were speaking before Wales’ first independence match in three years in Wrexham, starting at 12pm tomorrow.

    […]

  43. Hamish100 says:

    Unfortunate that one the twins father in law supported labours Jackie Baillie at last years election in their warped understanding of independence. Where does Jim Sillars stand now?

  44. Hamish100 says:

    Rather sad to hear Irishman Nick Sheridan on Bbc drive time referring to Scotland as a region…

    Still I suppose he needs the work and has to toe the britnat line.

    • Dr Jim says:

      He’s too young to remember when his own country was called a region when his ancestors didn’t care for it either, the BBC must be an infectious disease you catch when you go to work for them

    • There are still Irish that wish to be English/British. The money attracts them even though they are never really accepted. They do everything they can to hide their accents, background etc to become English. It still goes on even though Ireland is independent. They are like Douglas Ross, Ruth Davidson etc post indy.

    • Golfnut says:

      That’s the accepted narrative now, Scotland was extinguished, they own us, you won’t get to stick your nose in the trough unless you dance to their tune.
      Wait till Nicola gets the band warmed up and we’ll hear a different tune.

  45. Dr Jim says:

    Successive British nationalist governments over hundreds of years pulled off the ultimate con trick of the siege mentality that Donald Trump attempted on America in one term of office, many other governments and political figures throughout history have tried and eventually failed to con the peoples of their countries that every other nationality, every other people in every other land only had one thing on their mind, and that was and is to bring down England, or as it’s now called Britain, oh and of course the United Kingdom, did I forget any titles in there? no, OK,

    So the Irish hate the English, the Scots hate the English and ,well you know the rest, that’s why every time there’s a general election scheduled in the UK the Labour party is forced to deny that any kind of coalition or deal with the nasty Scottish SNP must be ruled out emphatically before the Tories weaponise it against Labour voters in England, which when you think about it kinda knocks on the head that Scotland and the Scots are anti English and proves conclusively that it’s in fact the other way round, England in general hates the Scots because they’ve been trained to over the 300 years that England has been running Scotland

    Y’see in Scotland and Wales we’re all used to our countries being run by England, but England is terrified at the prospect of any interfering Scottish governing coming the other way so won’t vote on pain of death for any party in England who’d countenance such a heinous thing, once again proving beyond doubt which folks are anti who

    So anti Scottish are they that they all agree on one very important thing to them, Scotland and the Scots must never ever ever have equal rights within this union that belongs to England, eh Britain, eh United Kingdom

    So many names for one country

  46. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Seems words DO have consequences…

    David Lammy Labour MP has tweeted :

    “Those of us in public life should admit our mistakes. That’s why I’m apologising to all BA workers for getting it wrong on Sunday.

    BA must restore the pay of their loyal workforce – and the gvt must sit down with employers and workers to address chronic low pay in aviation”

    I say words have consequences….perhaps public BACKLASH has more……and the GMB Union.

    David Lammy former colleague of Jeremy Corbyn….now appointed to shadow cabinet by Keir Starmer…now David is glad he is no longer a colleague of Jeremy Corbyn as Jeremy expelled by Starmer…David’s NEW boss very different from David’s OLD boss….but David does not care…David has a career to think about…..and Keir has a focus group to rely upon for how HE proceeds as leader of the Labour party….did Keir’s focus group frown upon David looking like a two faced back stabbing wannabee Tory…….

    Yuck.

    • stewartb says:

      David Lammy MP – aka Mr Categorically – categorically opposed to the democratic right of voters in Scotland to express a view on self-determination.

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Indeed stewartb…..that’s why I am categorically opposed to both him and his party……works BOTH ways.

  47. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Guardian journalist tweeted :

    “Labour plans a major offensive to spike Tories’ guns on “coalition of chaos.” He (Starmer) will vow no Indy ref and no deal with SNP – saying Labour would rather govern as a minority than give any quarter to the SNP. Pledge likely to be sealed at party conf”

    Prominent Remainer Ian Dunt’s response to this tweet :

    “Morally, this is wrong. The SNP and Greens have a mandate for another referendum. But politically, it is surely the correct approach”

    See….we see NO difference between the Labour and Tory party….BUT….we need to also add that some of those from REMAIN camp and BREXIT camp….are also NO different…about Scotland….BOTH agree ….no democracy for us for another Indy Ref….or recognition for a political party that we elected in a democratic vote…..NOT acknowledged or wanted by Keir, his party and some of their voters…..the road to potential power does indeed corrupt those greedy for it….England expects…..thus Labour responds ….and will never yield to a party elected by sweaty Jocks……Scotland responds…message received….Over and OUT and YOU too Labour are now OVER and OUT as far as Scotland is concerned……

    That’s how it works……Ian Dunt is all ME ME ME…MY COUNTRY MY COUNTRY MY COUNTRY….to be led by HIS PARTY OF CHOICE etc etc……

    I thought Sarwar was helping Indy in coming out as a born again Brexiteer …..but Starmer going further…..he is also ENSURING we in Scotland emphatically do not vote for his party via a majority in any future election …apart from perhaps Tories voting for the sitting Tory in Edinburgh aka Ian Murray….

    • JackCollatin says:

      New New labour don’t do ‘morals’, they do ‘politics’, lie steal cheat for England,their Puppet masters.

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Aye Jack..New New Labour not respecting or recognising the North North of their BriTAN,,,..however they just LOVE to pretend they respect and recognise the North of their BriTAN…..

        North North is now Scotland
        North is North of THEIR country aka England.

        Mind you not sure many in OLD Labour were any different……here’s a token gesture Scotland tae keep you onboard said the Socialist by name but not actually socialist by nature Party aka Old Labour…….New New Labour….Nae chance…..more inclined to gesture politics to appease THE NORTH of THEIR country aka England.

        Ooh Keir Starmer You are awful…..that’s why I DON’T like you.

    • Dr Jim says:

      The trouble with the old Scots guard of *I’m Labour and always have been* is that the Labour they once voted for ceased to exist with Tony Blair who realised that to beat the Tories in England you have to become the Tories but just keep talking Labour

      Scotland mainly cottoned on to that strategy reasonably quickly so dumped Labour like a ton of bricks so they now are reduced to the one Labour MP who is in fact a Tory behind his Labour face, Ian Murray is the Gemini man who talks Labour in England but walks Tory in Morningside Edinburgh

      Those staunch old guard Labour voters are slow to move because like miners down the local miners club they don’t want to change to any other social club in case they make a mistake and can’t go back because pride and prejudice forbids them

      They think we SNP folks are their enemy instead of what should be their natural home just with a different name, because Labour no longer supports the trades unions, they can’t afford to because the Tories have done such a good job of making Englands voters believe trades unions are those working class bad guys intent on bringing down their countries march to financial success, look how wrong they got that one

      Labour voters in Scotland must make a choice between a fake Labour party or the Tories, they can’t have one without the other because Labour can’t win in England no matter what Boris Johnson does

    • stewartb says:

      “Morally, this is wrong. The SNP and Greens have a mandate for another referendum. But politically, it is surely the correct approach”. Shrugs off principle with such ease!

      Who cares about morality in politics – or ethics, doing the right thing in politics – even democracy? All can be cast aside for Labour POWER!

      And for Labour, THEIR Union – even if it is has become Union no longer affirmed by consent – trumps all! TheParty’s leadership is truly indistinguishable from the Tories in denying Scotland democracy.

    • Tatu3 says:

      Nicola Sturgeon’s reply (on fb)

      “The problem in a nutshell. When morally right move for 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 clashes with politically expedient for rUK, latter always take precedence. We should be political equals and work together as Indy countries on that basis.

      (This not directed at Ian Dunt btw – I think he’s great. Article in the link: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/01/labour-never-strike-deal-snp-keir-starmer-pledge)”

  48. Hamish100 says:

    I see Cherry wants a Yes Alliance next year. Surprise surprise. SNP to disappear?

    Here’s an idea. Both she and the ALBA MP’s (who once stood and were elected on a SNP ticket) resign with immediate effect.
    Form a new YES alliance and stand for re-election at Westminster.
    If it works fine.
    If it doesn’t a valuable lesson has been learned prior to 2023.

    I suspect it won’t happen.

    • Dr Jim says:

      For such a smart woman Joanna Cherry sure is dumb sometimes, Alex Salmond cannot be involved in any role within the independence campaign because he’s simply toxic to Scottish voters or he would have won seats at the last election, he lost, and he lost because of himself and he probably knows it fine well, the man’s not an idiot, but he is a voting turn off the YES campaign can do well without

      The best thing Alex Salmond could do if he really wanted independence is to disappear and remain silent until it’s over then celebrate with the rest of us when we win, just think what might happen if we lost by say 2%

    • Tam the Bam says:

      I sincerely hope all people wanting Independence are in favour of a YES Alliance Hamish.
      Arent you?

      I notice you refer to Joanna by her surname (a dead giveaway when someone holds someone in contempt is their preference to calling them by their surname…I should know…I do it all the time)

      Joanna Cherry is one of the best brains in the SNP and we should be glad we have her.
      .

      • Tam the Bam says:

        I concur with your thoughts regarding Salmond Dr Jim.

        • Tam the Bam says:

          I should have elaborated regarding Alex Salmond.
          I would think it advantageous for the YES cause if Alex limited his media exposure during the campaign .
          Nonetheless…he is an intellect and I dont doubt his desire for Independence so in the spirit of ‘all hands to the wheel’ it would be churlish to spurn his ‘discreet’

          help in this regard surely?

          • Dr Jim says:

            I don’t know a single soul in the party who would welcome Alex Salmonds involvement and he knows it too, he also knows he’s a voter turn off, there are times to politically do nothing and for the sake of Scotland this is one of those times
            As to his media exposure, it will be used to Scotlands disadvantage, it’s their job to do that so they will ask him to appear as often as possible as they reprise reruns of the twosome back together again as they pick the bones over and over with their panels of *experts* and comment on all the history that goes with it, will his ego stop him? I sincerely hope so but I seriously doubt it

            The media will do what they do best and we don’t need the distraction filling up our screens night after night of trials and tribulations and guilty not guilty sex pest or no sex pest, answers on our phone in, text your thoughts, lets go over to some people in the street to hear what they think

            What Independence referendum?

            • Tam the Bam says:

              You know … I’m really conflicted about this.
              I hear what you say and agree with your comments.
              I’m trying to find how to start my next sentence…………….

              Anyway…regardless of what I think …que sera sera.

              p.s. I’m also a party member.

              • Tam the Bam says:

                And dont forget Dr Jim…..the Campaign wont be the preserve of my party….it will be a grassroots surge for Independence.
                It has to be … or we dont win.

                • Dr Jim says:

                  I hate to be the portent of any dismay or doom but without Nicola Sturgeon in total campaign and control, the grassroots is just street noise that no one will pay the slightest bit of attention to, without her there’s no media, without her profile there’s no international attention, without her I promise you there’s nothing, the whole thing will be about her and only her, that’s the way the media will play it so that if we lose they can crow they’ve successfully destroyed and chopped off the head of the snake , just as they did with demoralised looking images of Alex Salmond in the back of a car driving away appearing a dejected defeated figure

                  They killed him off and now it’s the independence womans turn to die, (metaphorically) except she won’t be quite so easy, she’s got some international friends that Alex Salmond neglected to cultivate

                  • Tam the Bam says:

                    Jim
                    Nicola is going to be front and centre …we all know that.
                    That wont be a matter for the SNP to decide..the media will obviously centre on her.
                    Harking back to 2014….Do you think the campaign will appoint a YES leader again (Blair Jenkins).
                    Lots to consider.

                    Incidentally…if you happen to be close to a radio ..tune into LBC RADIO right now…..”Should Labour do a deal with the SNP?

                    • Tam the Bam says:

                      I’d be wary of posting comments like …” without Nicola Sturgeon in total campaign and control” Jim.

                      The yoon trolls feed off comments like that.

                    • Dr Jim says:

                      That’s just an advert to vote Labour to give them a chance to deny any and all deals with the nasty Scots so be assured England we won’t let those Scots run your country

      • Hamish100 says:

        I say Johnson as well or is it Boris? For a GE a YES alliance party won’t work in my opinion. But Joanna ( never met her so sorry for being informal , I’m old school) can lead the way as I suggested. Tam the bam Inthink you read to much into ny words. Cherry, raised the issue as reported in The National, not me.

        Do you think she will do as I proposed or sit on the sidelines. Go on -lead.
        She could also join ALBA if that is where her heart lies. She should resign from the SNP first though. Ok with that Tam the bam?
        Incidentally I believe the FM has a brain too. Her political experience is greater as she has proven this week. Others left floundering.

        • Tam the Bam says:

          Do I think she’ll take up your proposition?
          Who knows.
          Send her an FOI.
          I’m sure she’ll respond.

          • Hamish100 says:

            FOI ?
            Why. I’m am sure you could let her know? She must have contacts in the ALBA world who have read this. She does know how to get publicity. Maybe that all it was?

        • yesindyref2 says:

          I’m old school

          Same.

          And surnames identify people better than:

          “John says”, or even “Nicola says”, as another Nicola of interest to constitutionalists is Nicola McEwen.

          Ones like Davidson usually need the first name too – is it the bayonet one, or the dame? But for some of us, the less tryping the bettar, less tripoes and dilsex.

    • Capella says:

      Probably, I don’t know what the EU regs are on Fire and Rehire but doubt they would interfere in internal industrial matters. The British Government should make this illegal but, of course, they won’t. Scottish Enterprise should sue them for the £5 m grant and distribute that among the striking workers.
      US multinationals treat the natives like serfs and in this case we are just as much serfs to the Westminster overlords. They will do nothing to prevent this even though oil and gas are extracted in geographical locations and can’t be outsourced. So, technically, we could have them over a barrel!

  49. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Is it just me…or would anyone else find it hard to listen to the song ‘The Deadwood stage’ sung by character Calamity Jane with the line ‘Whip crack away, whip crack away, whip crack away’ without at this moment thinking of the Tory party ? …..Badum Tish (or NOT)

  50. yesindyref2 says:

    OK, this is where I backed off before and muttered about loose lips sink ships, but since McHarg has put it into an article, I’m not giving any games away:

    On the other hand, if it refuses to accept the reference, it may leave the devolved governments in a Catch-22.

    This is where the Lord Advocate (Bain) can not commit to the view that the Bill is within competence, so the Minister can not introduce it within the Ministerial Code, and the UKSC would refuse to accept the referral without an actual passed Bill before it.

    https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/news-and-opinion/securing-scotlands-independence-moving-beyond-process

    SO – this does mean I can speculate a bit as that’s not drawing attention to something others may have missed (experts stick to the known rules and logic,whereas an ignorant fool has no such restraints and can rush in) – and “Catch 22” is exactly what I wrote and deleted. And of course the whole purpose of 34 is to resolve devolution issues, so the court would be ruling against that clause itself, so to speak, which would be logically wrong, and denying the whole purpose of the clause.

    What I’m going to suggest is that the UKSC will accept the referral conditionally, (and quickly) and give “permission” only for the Lord Advocate to OK the Bill as being within competence, but on the grounds that when passed, the court will consider it again – and maybe then refuse the referral. I think this is called “adjournment” 🙂 I think one of the NI referrals was adjourned to wait to see if the AGNI used other means to do what he wanted.

    Naturally the UK Gov legals would have their 2 weeks to decide, and then 4 weeks to make good their submissions. No idea whether they’d be able to update them after the Bill had passed and it went back to the Court.

    IANAL 🙂

    • Tam the Bam says:

      I suspect Joanna is on top of this already.

      Send her a text… and ask her if she still likes Marmite on her toast.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Well, if I could analyse all this others can too, and it’s why I put the odds at a bit more than evens that the Bill will go through.

        Which will be incredibly embarrassing for the UK Government.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      And another article with a bit different point of view, but it’s interesting that he refers to David Torrance’s recent article, but an earlier in the year article from Torrance in the Comnmons Library acknowledged help from McHarg and some corrections. So it’s all a bit circular.

      https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/news-and-opinion/tentative-path-date-destiny

      and Torrance’s article:

      https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/news-and-opinion/festering-issue-legality-second-independence-referendum

      Interestingly, some cases seem to consider expert opinions, which might mean McHarg’s paper, Parry’s, Torrance’s and others. Plus the interesting possibility of an intervention by Keatings perhaps using O’Neill with unused parts of his opinion, which may or may not help.

      At least there will be some decision, even if it’s to refuse the reference. Which means that either the Bill and Act go through, or it is clear that no referendum can be held because of the Scotland Act, but more politically damaging, that the UK Government refused to allow it despite most accounts putting support for Indy at evens.

      And yeah, the world press will indeed be reporting it all.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Ah right, looking at my stored posting, which refers to the National article which refers to McKerrell’s opinion, which others have referred to (that;s a lot of referrals), there’s this from him, and wot I wrote:

      ———-
      a quote near the end:

      “It seems to me the Lord Advocate has been reluctant to do that [give permission to introduce the bill], so that is why they have made this referral to the Supreme Court.

      but previously:

      “It is a legal detail [Bill not Act} – but the shorthand is the court could rule it is too early for us to make this judgement and say we need the bill to go through parliament first,” he added.

      This is not logical, his two statements would create an impossibility, which would presumably be against the whole point of 6(34) – to resolve devolution issues. One of which could be – can the LA give permission for a Bill to be introduced, it if isn’t certain it’s not a reserved issue?

      And my guess is that that is indeed, one of the first questions.

      So – I’ll stick my neck out as a non-legal but logical person, and say that the referral will be at least partly answered.

      Incidentally, it’s also possible some opinions are confusing “act” as in the actions of a Minister, Bain is one, and “Act” with a capital “A” – an Act of Parliament, i.e. a passed Bill.
      ———

      That’s it, I’ve bored my own hole off.

      • Golfnut says:

        I’m not bored even though they are the same rehashed arguments inevitably reaching the same old predetermined conclusion, ” naw ye cannae “.
        Funny how, and I believe this fundamental to the argument, they never mention the source of reserved power to the Union parliament.

  51. yesindyref2 says:

    Just to show how quickly a Bill can move through Holyrood, iIt can be treated as an emergency bill:

    https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20220527112206/https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/about-bills/bills-and-laws/types-of-bill

    Emergency Bills

    An Emergency Bill is a Government Bill that needs to be enacted more quickly than the normal timetable allows.

    An Emergency Bill must be introduced as a Government Bill first and then the Parliament must agree to treat it as an Emergency Bill. Stages 1 to 3 of an Emergency Bill are all taken on the same day unless the Parliament agrees to an alternative timescale.

    Stage 2 of an Emergency Bill is normally taken by a Committee of the Whole Parliament unless the Parliament agrees to an alternative approach.

    Royal Assent may be given more quickly than normal after the Bill is passed.

    as was the EU continuity bill:

    https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/uk-withdrawal-from-the-european-union-legal-continuity-scotland-bill

    The UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (Scotland) Bill was withdrawn on 10 March 2022
    In
    Bill is at Introduced stage.
    Introduced (27 February 2018)
    1
    Bill is at Stage 1 stage.
    Stage 1 (7 March 2018)
    2
    Bill is at Stage 2 stage.
    Stage 2 (14 March 2018)
    3 W
    Bill is at Stage 3 stage.
    Stage 3 (21 March 2018)
    L
    Bill is at Act stage.
    Act

    So, within just over 3 weeks, a Bill was introduced,, debated through all 3 stages, and passed. And could have received an accelerated Royal Assent (normally 28 days).

    • Alex Clark says:

      Interesting article that you posted the link to and well worth a read.

      https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/news-and-opinion/securing-scotlands-independence-moving-beyond-process

      On reading it I was curious that if the Lord Advocate withheld consent then could the Bill still go forward in Parliament. I followed the links in the article and as far as I understand things there is no legal reason (In the Scotland Act) that the Scottish government cannot ignore the advice of the Scottish Law Officers (Lord Advocate and Solicitor General for Scotland) and go ahead with passing the Bill.

      Only then can it be legally challenged as to its legislative competence by any of the law officers or the Secretary of State for Scotland and it is then that it would have to be ruled on by the Supreme Court.

      There is one stumbling block to that scenario, in that to put the bill before parliament without the Law Officer’s consent that in their opinion it is withing competence the Minister would have to breach the Ministerial Code as it currently stands.

      Introduction of Bills
      3.4…A Bill must also be accompanied by a statement, which will have been cleared with the Law Officers, that the Bill is within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament.

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-ministerial-code-2018-edition/pages/4/

      I guess that one way around that would be for the FM to do what Johnson did and change the bits of the Ministerial Code that she doesn’t like. Somehow though, I don’t see her behaving the same way as Johnson does.

  52. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Holyrood ‘I hate the SNP’ Mandy has reported :

    “Lib Dems vow to oppose indyref2 ‘at every stage”’…..

    The MIGHT of 4 MSP’s…….Da Da Daaaaaaaaaaaa………

    How can 64 SNP and 7 Green MSP’s FIGHT that……we are DONE FOR …..we just cannot fight the might of the…..4……it’s OVER……the LIb Dems in Holyrood are VOWING to oppose indyref2 at not just ..the first stage…nor just at the second stage und the third stage etc…but at EVERY STAGE………EVERY STAGE….EVERY STAGE……is there no one that will help us…….how can we fight the might of 4 at EVERY STAGE…….EVERY STAGE.

    Time to pack up lads and lassies……..Alex ‘F*ck You Maree’ Cole-Hamilton has spoken …….and he has a wee Willie behind him….as in The Rennie…..no one can fight The Rennie….the same Rennie that stood down to make way for an uncontested power stance standing Alex ‘F*ck You Maree’ Cole-Hamilton who formally was a spokesman for women’s rights…on when to talk and what to say that is….not actually Women’s rights…..his speciality being Zoom talks with women….where he prefers they are seen and NOT heard…..at EVERY STAGE that is…..

    Lib Dems …so thick as a party (of 4) they use the word ‘VOW’ in a statement to oppose IndyRef2……perhaps time they called for a Taxi for 4…..

    Bored now…..

  53. Dr Jim says:

    The Labour party position in Scotland on blocking democracy or refusing to participate in a democratically voted for referendum is completely at odds with the FM Prif Weinidog Mark Drakeford of Wales when he says “any country who wants a referendum and votes for a party that has that as their policy, should have one* he went on to say that such a referendum was not on the cards for Wales because those who want a referendum haven’t won

    Even Labour MP Sir Kier Starmer can’t shut Mark Drakeford up on the subject of what’s democratic

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      ” a referendum was not on the cards for Wales because those who want a referendum haven’t won”
      ___________

      And with all that said, the Prif Weinidog is actually governing with a Party that *does* want one.

      (I wouldn’t want a referendum now, either, as the highest vase figure for YES (excl. Don’t Knows) is 32%. You don’t want to have a referendum until you’re sure you can win it. Have you heard that before?)

      • yesindyref2 says:

        What I saw I think was a report saying support was 25% for Indy in Wales, but only 50% against. Leaving 25% undecided.

        THAT is a better position than we started in 2012.

        I tend to keep an eye more on the Unionist NO polling. Anything below 50%, and the game really is on, and ripe for a campaign.

        Go for it!

      • Dr Jim says:

        My point is Mark Drakeford recognises democracy when he sees it unlike the rest of his party

  54. Alex Clark says:

    Another very interesting part of the article was McHarg’s view on the issue of a“de facto referendum”. Was Prof. Mitchell just trying to muddy the water then in the Unionists’ favour?

    It has been suggested that there is no such thing as a “de facto referendum”. But there certainly are historical precedents for general elections being fought on single issues (for example, the January 1910 General Election on the Liberal Government’s People’s Budget), and at one time it was quite widely argued that extraordinary general elections should be required to authorise constitutional change (such as home rule for Ireland).

    More pertinently perhaps, Sinn Féin fought the 1918 General Election on a manifesto commitment to establish an Irish republic and regarded its landslide victory in Irish seats as giving a mandate to establish a provisional Dáil Éireann and issue a Declaration of Independence.

    Indeed, prior to the establishment of the Scottish Parliament, the SNP’s policy was to treat the election of a majority of SNP MPs in Scottish seats as a mandate to negotiate independence.

    Not even a week has passed yet, and so much has been said already, I think there will be quite a few more surprises to come, but no matter what happens this whole merry-go-round will end ultimately with a 2nd referendum being held on Independence in my opinion.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Scot goes pop has a good article on Mitchell’s comment

      https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2022/07/yes-james-mitchell-of-course-theres.html

      and I think it’s the perfect example of how a blogger can get behind this move by Sturgeon, while still keeping previous opinions about her – and reservations. Hopefully more will adopt that pragmatism.

      • Drew Anderson says:

        Since the announcement, I’ve been visiting sites I haven’t been to for a long time: SGP; Craig Murray; WoS and others.

        The first two named are making the right noises; the last, predictably, is not.

        One thing stood out from the comments (from all three named) is that a single issue general election is apparently, just a ploy by the SNP, to get another cozy term at Westminster for their candidates. Despite the announcement, it didn’t take them long to work out another SNPbaaad angle.

        In order to address this, I think it would be best if the SNP weren’t standing at all. That none of the pro indy parties stand. That they come together (perhaps even with a few high profile candidates with no party affiliation) and stand on the single issue ticket.

        It would nail that argument pretty quickly. It would also have the benefit of taking some of the wind out of the Unionists’ sails; they couldn’t label is as the SNP’s anything.

        Looks like you’ve been busy, posting at half three, then back early-ish. Don’t burn out, we’re in for a long haul.

        • Not-My-Real-Name says:

          I note that BritNats are like way indignant that the SNP should DARE to say they will campaign for GE on a “de facto referendum” as the FM stated” “I want the process set in train today to lead to a lawful, constitutional referendum and for that to take place on 19 October 2023. But if the law says that is not possible, the General Election will be a ‘de facto’ referendum”….but that is ONLY if all other avenues are shut down…..as in yet again democracy is DENIED to Scotland.

          While Starmer intends to run ‘part’ of his election campaign on ‘NO power sharing with the SNP even if they are LARGEST voted for party in Scotland at the next GE if Labour ‘win’ the next GE…..

          Cue BritNats…’that sounds fair and democratic’…..

        • yesindyref2 says:

          Well, from the SNP point of view it’s going to need something like this:

          ———-
          “Page 1 of 1.

          SNP Manifesto – General Election 2024
          Independence for Scotland – The SNP General Election Manifesto

          The one single policy of the SNP for the 2024 General Election is Independence, and if we win the election with a majority in Scotland, this will be permission for the Scottish Government to immediately negotiate with the rUK Government for Independence with speedy due diligence.

          Ends”
          ———-

          Whether all other parties stand down, or they all have similar in their manifestoes, or put an extra bit about “The vote of all parties with this similar manifesto will be combined”, or even a pro-Indy alliance – remains to be seen. But I don’t think general voters will lik the idea of “Pro-Indy Alliance”, they know SNP, Green, Alba, etc.

          It’s not just those who’ve spent a lot of time criticising Sturgeon who this would help, it’s people like me who have reservations but mostly go with the flow.

          And I agree, including with the Rev, it has to be votes not seats, and 50,0001% wins, 49.9999% loses.

          • Drew Anderson says:

            I fully agree it’s about votes cast.

            But we’ve got a newly minted SNPbaaad angle from our side of the fence; free ammo for the Unionists.

            Single issue candidates from the SNP, Greens and others is a suggestion to take some of the party political baggage out of the debate.

            • grizebard says:

              You can’t take “party political baggage” out of a plebiscite general election, alas, because the Unionist parties will insist on having loads of it regardless. That’s how they get their funding and airtime, never mind the potential “drag” on keeping their own indy-inclined supporters in line.

          • grizebard says:

            As I recall it, the statement from the SNP was ambiguous on the matter of what would count as a win. Although a majority pro-indy vote certainly validates matters, a UKGE is fought under fairly disadvantageous party-political WM rules, so I don’t see any problem with re-quoting Thatcher on that matter. Not least internationally, if it has to come to that.

  55. Hamish100 says:

    Ahh the magical “Vow” remember all the extra powers coming our way if we voted No. Never happened we were lied too by glove puppets labour, Lib Dem’s ( in coalition with) and operated by the tories. Cameron one day later English Votes speech HM Queenie purred. Translated to you “arsehole Scotch giving up your freedom for us “

    Brexit. All powers residing in the EU will be transferred to the home nations and then of course – naw, Westminster keeps them all.
    Lies from the tories and labour and Lib Dem’s are the sub servients.
    Doing anything to keep England brexiters happy and to hell with Scotland. The tories would get rid of Holyrood if they could. Just ask the Johnson brown noses.

    Independence, nothing else 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  56. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Just read a tweet by James Dewar @Indigofast :

    “Conservatives won last election by being anti-EU
    Starmer hopes to win one by being anti-Scottish

    England is a madhouse”.

    ……I would say tis more that they, English voters, are only being given the poor choice of supporting and voting for ONE Bobby Dancer against another……with another one (Lib Dem) trying to hoover up ‘other’ votes of those who cannot bring themselves to vote for the other TWO ….

    With Starmer FINALLY, via his current political position, conceding the Labour lie that Labour NEEDS Scottish votes in order to win a GE….

    You don’t win over people (Scots) by alienating them, othering them and denying their right to democracy and expect them to STILL vote for your party in any election including a GE in Scotland (and also denying the party that WE , Scots, elect via majority, have any legitimacy in your parliament to share ANY power at WM)…..but you DO win over some people in England by doing this….especially if you really really NEED to win their votes (English)..in order for YOUR party to have any chance of WINNING a GE….I say winning…been touted more of a MINORITY ‘win’ over Tories….MINORITY against THE WORSE UK GOVT like EVER under the WORSE PM like EVER…..winning ?……not so much…..creeping over the line….maybe…BUT nothing is guaranteed….who knows what way the political wind blows…if Tories dump BJ then all bets may be off for Starmer …….the weakling…then tis a big HA HA.

    We see you Starmer…..so obvious your current stance it’s embarrassing ……but every little bit helps so THANKS….as now perhaps many more in Scotland see that YOU , like the TORIES and LIB DEMS , do not SPEAK for or want to SPEAK for Scotland or Care about the people who live here (those born here and those who chose to live here)……but we already KNEW that….so stop wasting your breath…..Mr Keir ‘Make Brexit work’ Starmer……

    Note to Starmer et al….we do not seek to share power in your parliament FOR the UK…we want ALL power in our OWN parliament as an INDEPENDENT country…..Duh !

    • James Mills says:

      Starmer has already LOST the next GE as he has surrendered to the right wing media .

      Unlike a leader who is prepared to FIGHT his cause , Starmer has an absence of cojones !
      ( even Hitler had one ! LoL ! )

      He is NOW going to make an unworkable Brexit WORK !

      He is NOT going to ally with a political party ( SNP ) which shares most of Old Labour aspirations vis-a-vis social equality .

      He is aping the anti-democratic stance of the Tories by refusing to acknowledge Scottish voters choice of another referendum .

      He is NOT prepared to support unions on democratically mandated strikes .

      He IS prepared to support any Tory issue which will gain him favour with his natural constituency – Tory Voters !

      People will ask him ”What does the Labour Party stand for ?”
      The simple answer is NOTHING !

  57. Bob Lamont says:

    There was an interesting post on Believe in Scotland on an article by Martin Kettle in the Grauniad.
    Painfully myopic as Martin’s article was, it was the BTL comments which had caught the OP’s eye, dominated as they were by support for what SG were doing and a referendum being the right of Scots without reservation.
    Absent any animus whatsoever, the broad view was democracy must prevail – No whitabootery on borders, currency, or any of the usual media BT vomit, simply democracy must prevail.

    Having previously observed on the absurdity of MSM and its favoured politics at odds with its populace, it is somewhat heartening to see Martin Kettle’s article proving the point by being roundly chastised in comments from England….

    I’ve said it before – Scotland’s fight is not with England or its populace but a political and media mafia which would dictate what Scots do to favour ITS survival, and relies on OUR subjugation.

    It ain’t gonna happen, and the English public are running support, BT2 is in the stank…

    • Capella says:

      Spot on Bob. Democracy or barbarity. Democracy must prevail and many English people believe that too. The enemy is the autocrats in Westminster and their minions in the MSM.

  58. Hamish100 says:

    It the britnats are so angst over a “Defacto” referendum at a U.K. GE the the answer is easy. Participate in the referendum on the 19th October 2023.

    If they cannot then they must explain to Scotland what is the route for the people exercising their Democratic right in Scotland.

    Are the britnats no better than Putin and his henchmen?

  59. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    I see Ian Dunt is trying to row back ( a little) from his tweet on Starmer pre-empting the ‘Coalition of chaos’ accusation he anticipates via the Tories if he does NOT declare what Ian thought was the “correct approach” in basically NO Quarter being given to the SNP like EVER…BUT just for laughs (surely) he also stated in his original tweet that it was…”morally wrong”…….MORALLY WRONG….Hmm…..this is UK politics Union style we are talking about Ian….Keep up….it’s bereft of morals……it’s Dog eat (Big) Dog……aka Starmer against Johnson….

    We are now in the land of who can deny Scotland democracy the MOST….and from Scotland’s viewpoint as in the North North of THE country….it’s 50/50 between Labour and Tory party…..Lib Dems don’t count…..EVER.

    I mean just how far are some people willing to go to oust the Tories only to replace them with another Tory party, one who masquerade under another party name, but whose whole raison d’etre is to many of us here in Scotland so so so very similar…to the party they allegedly are the official opposition to….aka the Tories.

    If a Labour politician looks in the mirror….tis a Tory’s reflection that looks back…..

    I mean how bad do Labour NEED to get before our friends darn sarf ,who opine on politics, realise that they, Labour, are but false prophets…..no different from those they pretend to oppose……I suspect they know already BUT they think second best is better than who they see as the worse choice…as in the Tories…NOT for most in Scotland …where we prefer to pick THE best not a political Hobson’s Choice.

    • grizebard says:

      I just hope that SNP reps, whenever they get an opportunity (which is not often, mind you), point out in no uncertain terms just what an offence against democracy in general this absolutist refusnik stance of the Labour leadership represents, and what it implicitly says about the position of Scotland within this damned Union. Make the implicit explicit, SNP, and what a personal affront it represents against all voters in Scotland of all parties. We’re “allowed” to vote just so long as it is never permitted to have any actual influence on what happens in England.

      And yet Starmer simultaneously keeps claiming that Labour needs Scotland in order to win a UKGE! This kind of semantic gymnastics well illustrates where his (and yes-man Sarwar’s) self-entitlement leads: “Vote for us because otherwise we’ll ignore it. Oh, and since we take your support completely for granted, we’ll happily ignore you if you give it, just as before.” Labour’s own version of “heads you lose, Scotland, and tails I and WM win”.

      The more people here who come to realise what kind of subservience is the best that’s on offer from Starmer or anyone else in the WM system, the faster we will escape from it.

  60. Dr Jim says:

    Through it all folk in Scotland have to ask themselves the question do they want a government in Scotland or do they want to continue with *the mitigation bureau* that is our own parliament in Holyrood ?

    Even if at heart you might be a union supporter you must know that one way or another forever more there will be Independence supporting parties in power in Holyrood, because there’s no way on this planet that if Scotland is denied its democracy that any independence supporter is ever going to vote for any description of Unionism ever again, thus the precious union will never ever be totally in charge of Scotland unless the British invade with an army and kill half of us, and that no way is never going to happen, so lose gracefully now or lose badly in the future

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