British nationalism: making a mockery of Scottish democracy

The anti-independence parties and their friends in the media are convinced that the British Government has “blocked off all legal routes to indyref2 next year,” according to a headline in the increasingly British nationalist Herald newspaper on Sunday. The actual article was more nuanced, Professor Ciaran Martin, the man responsible for the quote, which the paper wrenched from all context, also said that he thought that some form of consultative referendum might be legally possible, which isn’t quite the absolute closing down of any legal route to a referendum next year which was screamed by the headline.

Under what passes for a constitution in this increasingly disunited Kingdom, all referendums are consultative anyway. The EU referendum was a consultative referendum. The Edinburgh Agreement underpinning the 2014 referendum was a political agreement, it did not make the result legally binding. What it did was to put the referendum itself beyond legal challange. In the event that Yes had won, Westminster would not have been legally compelled to implement the result. The fundamental principle of the British constitution is that the sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament is absolute. There would have been a massive and overwhelming political imperative to implement the result, but as we all know, the British nationalist parties tell lies.

However even if the British nationalist parties had indeed created an absolute slam dunk and had blocked any possible route to a lawful independence referendum, this would not be the death blow to any chance of Scottish independence that some of the frothier British nationalist who infest the comments section of the Herald seem to think it would be, and that was the real thrust of Professor Ciaran Martin’s comments, for all that they were cherry picked by the rabidly anti-independence Herald in order to generate a click bait headline.

Professor Martin was pointing out that resorting to legal means to thwart the operation of Scottish democracy is a short term tactic which risks backfiring in the longer term. He cited the example of the infamous 40% rule in the Scottish Assembly referendum of 1979. It was a wheeze which succeeded in blocking Scottish demand for some form of autonomy in the short term, but the anger it generated and the way in which subsequent Conservative governments ran roughshod over the will of the Scottish people in the following years converted the desire for a Scottish Parliament into the settled will of the people of Scotland and when the Parliament did come into being it was considerably more powerful than the limited proposals of 1979 for an assembly had foreseen. The narrow victory for very limited Home Rule in 1979 became overwhelming support for a much more far reaching form of devolution by the time of the referendum of 1997.

Right now opinion polls suggest that support for independence is pretty evenly matched by opposition to it. The real point that Professor Martin was making was that Conservative intransigence on the issue of another referendum, just like Conservative intransigence on the issue of devolution in the 1980s and 1990s, risks converting support for independence into the settled will of the people of Scotland.

A point he did not raise, but which is obvious to anyone who has been paying attention to the Scottish constitutional debate is that even if it were possible for the Conservatives and their fellow travellers to create a legal bar tpreventing Holyrood from holding another independence referendum without the consent of a Prime Minister who can not even count on the support of most of his Scottish MPs, they still cannot prevent the people of Scotland from expressing their democratic will in other ways, and the more that they close down the path which led to the referendum of 2014, the greater the likelihood that an alternative route will enjoy widespread support from an increasingly alienated Scottish electorate.

The key problem for the anti-independence parties is that they have no real strategy for preventing Scottish independence. All that they have are short term delaying tactics. There is a fundamental contradiction between the assertion of the Unionist parties that the people of Scotland have the right to decide the future of Scotland and their refusal to specify how that right can be exercised. That’s an avoidance tactic that cannot last forever even with the assistance of an overwhelmingly anti-independence media. In an interview with the BBC’s Sunday Show Douglas Ross pointedly refused to say exactly how how Scotland could exercise its right to self-determination if not through a referendum, even though it was pointed out to him that the United Nations deems this a to be key principle of democracy.

As Professor Martin noted,the current constitutional position in the UK is that Scotland is in principle allowed to choose independence, but no matter how Scotland votes, Westminster blocks the implementation of Scotland choosing to revisit the question of independence. At some point this contradiction will have to be resolved. It cannot go on forever. The independence question is not merely mainstream in Scottish politics, it is the single most important issue in Scottish politics, the prism through which all other matters are reflected. It is not just going to go away, no matter how much the likes of Douglas Ross or Anas Sarwar wish it would. If is natural course is blocked, it will find another path, whether a plebiscite election or some other democratic means, and by that time the parties of Ross and Sarwar will have lost all influence over the course of events.

The fact is that the people of Scotland have clearly and unequivocally stated their demand for another independence referendum through the only democratic avenue open to them an election to the Scottish Parliament. For a party with just six Westminster MPs in Scotland and only 31 MSPs at Holyrood to resort to legal chicanery to block the will of the people makes a mockery of democracy.

Tomorrow (Tuesday), the First Minister will lay out the Scottish Government’s strategy for holding a lawful referendum even without the consent of the Prime Law Breaker. Hopefully we will then see how the Gordian knot can be cut through.

Many thanks to everyone who kindly supported the annual fundraiser. It’s always a nerve wracking time, I’m literally asking people to put their money where my mouth is. I’m delighted to say that the target of £5000 wasn’t just reached it was smashed. From all sources, the Gofundme page, PayPal donations, and direct donations by cheque or into my bank account, the grand total raised was an incredible £11,094. In my wildest dreams  Icould not have expected it to go so well and my deepest thanks to everyone who contributed.  It is heartening to know that so many people value my writing and that there is still an appreciative audience for a positive pro-independence message that concentrates on making the case for independence and debunking the arguments of the real enemies of Scottish independence, the Conservatives and their little helpers.  That’s what I will keep doing thanks to you.

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57 comments on “British nationalism: making a mockery of Scottish democracy

  1. Hamish100 says:

    Paul, the britnats can only drag up supposed dirt as they swallow around in sewage of their own making.
    The FM will stick to the positive case for Independence as we should also.

    I should add that anyone who buys the record and such like cos it’s got good fitba pages should seriously consider boycotting the unionists rags for once and for all. Let the dark money from the unionists pay up.
    Independence first and last.
    No quarter is the term.

  2. Alex Clark says:

    No matter what the FM says on Tuesday about the route to Independence you can absolutely guarantee that the media will report it as being impossible to achieve, it will be without substance and/or wishful thinking.

    We will be told how Boris Johnson will ignore it and that Unionists in Scotland will boycott any referendum as it will be illegal no matter what any court might say. It’s obvious that this is what we have to expect to happen and so too does the First Minister.

    Maybe though that is “plan B” let the Unionist parties and pet poodles in the media harp on and on while continuing to tell the people of Scotland that they “cannae dae it cos we’re no gonne gae ye wan”.

    That kind of carry on will surely just increase support and an increase in support makes not just a demand for a referendum all the stronger, it means that winning one is all the more likely. Such a tactic as they use now is not a winning one in the long run.

    There will be a tipping point at which the whole Unionist house of cards comes tumbling down, that point is close and there is little now they can do to prop up that old rickety structure when the foundations are rotted through and the cement holding it together has turned to sand.

    We will have our say and they are unable to stop that from happening forever.

  3. James Mills says:

    Unionist : ”Gonnae no dae that ?”

    Independence seeker : ” How no ?”

    Unionist : ” Jist , gonnae no ?”

  4. bringiton says:

    The main point that unionists deny is that the branch offices of the London based parties do not and never have put Scotland’s interests to the fore.
    The Johnson administration and the Brexit supporting Labour party have completely exposed their real position.

  5. Golfnut says:

    To be honest I think Ciaran Martin is taking the piss, maybe more accurately pissing up the legs of the gullible while telling them it’s raining. This from Cameron’s lead negotiator and Head of Cyber Security getting ahead of the game by giving the media a big stick to beat the FM with just 2 days before she informs the Scottish Parliament of the way through the morass of british nationalist propaganda designed to suppress support and undermine her and our resolve.
    I’ll wait till Tuesday, if she mentions the 1707 Treaty, the union’s f###ed and they know it, that won’t stop the propaganda though, we’ve got a lot more of this nonsense heading our way.

  6. Melvin says:

    The 1707 treaty is a very poor piece of work and given the Scottish parliament voted it in, they can vote it out. A democracy can never be curtailed and enshrined in a document, which was undemocratic and did not have support of the people. The people did not vote for the union and therefore no consent was given.

  7. Melvin says:

    The Uk is done and the sooner we get the documents out from Holyrood the better, the. We can focus on convincing one person each, which is all we need to do, just one person who didn’t support or didn’t vote in 2014. The Tories may well also go for a GE before October next year, to throw a spanned in the works. However there is nothing that can stop the will of the people, if the people want independence, we will hav to take it, the UK will never give it to us.

  8. yesindyref2 says:

    I suspect Ciaran Martin believes in the right of Scotland to hold a referendum, or decide on our future by whatever means is possible. It’s good the media is misrepresenting him, though the FT seems to be a bit more on the right track – it was during Indy Ref 1 at times as well. I wonder if the route to Independence is actually via the forthcoming UK “Bill of lack of Rights”, which has been speculated on since 2016 afte rthe EU Ref. We may soon find out.

    Anyways, a coupld of interesting articles about the Edinburgh Agreement from Novermber 2012:


    I remember in the last few months thinking there was an article by McHarg, finding the one from Bell, and getting confused (happens easily). This is why – there were articles from BOTH of them 🙂

    • yesindyref2 says:

      This sets the scene for a legal battle between Sturgeon and Johnson over Scotland’s right to hold a referendum that could go all the way to the UK Supreme Court.

      That may be a win for Sturgeon’s cause in the long run, even if she loses the legal case, according to Ciaran Martin, a former civil servant who led the Cameron government’s negotiating team ahead of the 2014 referendum.

      “You can see the political value of such a judgment for the Scottish nationalist movement,” said Martin, adding it could strengthen support for independence on the basis that Scotland’s right to self-determination was not respected.

      google ciaran martin scotland can brexit be Sturgeon’s game-changer

      and click the first link from the FT – seems to bypass the subscription need, at least for me. The straight link address, hits the wall.

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Mmm, actually, click the link, copy the title and paste it into the search and then click the article found by google and it works – possibly uses something like a prefetch by google or sommat.

        Shhhh, don’t tell him your name, Pike.

    • YIR2, it is becoming clearer that Johnson (and the firdt Lady) and his hapless Foreign Secretary have embarked on The Great Con, touting ‘the Commonwealth’ as Johnson’s’ risible ‘Empire 2’.

      It is clear that we will be compelled to ‘take our country back’ from our English Oppressors.

      Sturgeon and the SNP need to get more aggressive NOW.
      There is much to be done…and I for one, have lost patience.

      WE shall put up with ridiculous puppets like Jack Ross Murray Carmichael Sarwar and The Tailor’s Dummy no longer.

      There is plenty we can do to set the fight for freeedom in motion.
      Trade Union subscriptions?
      Boycott the Unions which back continued serfdom.
      How many AUOB supporters pay subs to GMT, Unison, EIS, and the like?
      A ‘Buy Scottish’ campaign in protest against the supermarket Union Jackisation.
      How any customer would buy English meat emblazoned with the English swastika, when there is a perfectly good, no, better, Scottish alternative on an adjacent shelf defies logic.? Save our Scottish Farmers, and Fishermen.

      That’s but two suggestions.
      It’s the economy stupid. Hit them where it hurts; in their pockets.
      It’s time for attack, the only form of defence against the Iron Heel Oligarchy and its media puppets.

      The S30 was never an internationally binding treaty.
      If we had opted for YES in 2014, we’d still be in a Brexit like impasse with the English over the Divorce terms.

      Rise up, Scotland, drive our oppressors from our shores.
      Gove will be next to resign.

  9. deelsdugs says:

    Paul, the grand work you do is very much appreciated.
    If only the undecideds’ would actually consider thinking a little bit more about the situation, rather than the blind challenge of ‘politics, it’s got nothing to do with me’ attitude.

    One young chap from one of the mainland Northern Isles that is wont to fly the lib dem colour scheme, said, just two weeks ago, ‘Why is it always Lib Dem here?’ ‘There’s no point in offering my political opinion, nobody listens’…my response, read the ‘Wee Ginger Dug’, that’s why it’s important.
    Whether or not he’s signed up for subscription, I have no idea.

  10. Ian Campbell says:

    Congratulations, Paul, on a well deserved and a brilliant result for your crowdfund. We are extremely pleased that you can continue your excellent work by exploding the unionists narrative into dust!
    We thank you for your energy and commitment.
    Ian and Nicola.

  11. Bob Lamont says:

    Aye, well expounded, the usual media suspects grow ever more desperate to undermine SNP, stall Indyref2, now trying to undermine the FM’s statement on Tuesday before a word is spoken.
    On your “In an interview with the BBC’s Sunday Show Douglas Ross pointedly refused to say exactly how Scotland could exercise its right to self-determination if not through a referendum, even though it was pointed out to him that the United Nations deems this a to be key principle of democracy”, this was perfectly exampled by the preposterous follow-up from Andrew Kerr –
    “…but apparently that UN rights on self-determination maybe doesn’t apply to developed western democracies…
    “Apparently”, “maybe”, “developed western democracies” hold that honest journalism prevails – The BBC in Scotland as national broadcaster shows no such inclination, ergo Andrew has proven the UK is most definitely NOT a “developed western democracy”

    The S30 bluff under SoSS Moore continues today under Jack, an assertion untested in Law because it would fail the principle of direct cause and effect. The precedent of the S30 procedure set it as the “gold standard”, but with WM now playing double bluff, it is time to call the hand.

    The vast majority of the UK electorate support the right to hold Indyref2, and should independence be the wish of Scots, so be it, that is the prevailing view across the UK.
    The ONLY opponents to that view are the political classes and media, THAT is NOT democracy.

    PS-Congratulations of the fundraiser…

  12. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Spot on Paul.

    Take Care

  13. P Harvey says:

    Fantastic news about your fundraiser
    You more that deserve every penny
    The work you do is amazing & the quality,clarity & punch of your output is amazing
    Your a ‘Burns’ for the 21st century!
    But pace yourself & look after your recovery
    We need you in a free and independent Scotland when you will surely be rewarded for your massive contribution to the cause of independence
    Free in 23!🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  14. Aye, our movement is becoming a fight for democracy against a subjugating oppressor. That should be the slogan; ‘Vote Yes for democracy and freedom’. ‘If you want to keep the right to choose your own government, vote Yes’. ‘To end British dictatorship and restore Scottish democracy, vote Yes’. That seems to be increasingly the reality.

    Brengland is attempting to overturn both the Scottish and N. Irish election results, handing effective victory to its loser allies. The minority British people of Scotland / N. Ireland deciding the future of these against the will of the majority Scots / Irish-N Irish

    Scots voted for iref2 in majority, as did the N. Irish for the protocol.

  15. James Mills says:

    Whether a ”referendum” is legal or otherwise is a distraction which suits the media and unionists . What the unionist media and unionist politicians are denying is a people’s right to choose – whether in the form of a referendum or election or any other DEMOCRATIC route .

    It is the height of hypocrisy by unionists in the UK to constantly champion the rights of the Ukrainian people in the face of oppression by Russia to insist on their Independence yet in the next breath deny Scottish people the same rights .
    Johnson’s Government is every bit as anti-democratic as Putin’s in their attitude to a People whom they perceive as a part of their fiefdom .

    The RIGHT to self-determination is what should be raised in every debate and interview when the topic of Scottish ( or Irish , Welsh …) independence is discussed .

    The question which DRoss failed to answer ( for he knows THE ANSWER ) when questioned on HOW we set about upholding our democratic right to self-determination has to be asked constantly of unionists .
    The onus is on THEM to explain their undemocratic stance . Keep highlighting this at every opportunity .
    Expose their lack of ”British fair play ” . ” It’s not Cricket , old boy ! ”

  16. jfngw says:

    I wonder how the UK media would report a country being governed for 62% of the time since 1959 (before the first manned space flight, the first TV satellite, UK colour TV, four feather falls) by a party it had not voted in as a majority even once in this period. I can’t imagine they would report it as democracy, but in Scotland it is reported as a normal state of affairs, in fact they will produce stories inferring wanting the government you voted for as being anti-democratic ( they may even say it is against the UN charter for Scotland).

    If you want to see a media that is almost totally controlled by another country there is not many better examples than Scotland.

    • ‘If you want to see a media that is almost totally controlled by another country there is not many better examples than Scotland.’
      China, Russia, North Korea, Belarus, oh, and Rwanda…your starter for 10, jfngw.

      It takes Manchurian Candidate strength brainwashing from birth to be considered for a job in the scots broadcasting and print Ministry of Truth.
      Geissler and Kerr were a disgrace to their nation of birth yesterday.
      ‘What did you do in the war, Daddy?’
      ‘I fought for the other side.’
      This is no longer a sham ‘democracy’ debate, an argy bargy among gentlemen in the Rotary/Golf/Lions Club.
      I am beyond listening to any more of these ProudscotsBut Fifth Columnists.
      I do not pay a broadcasting tax to be insulted by Sell Outs.
      We have been told. You are our militarily conquered colony. Suck it up.

      No more clenched fists pent up rage.
      It is time.

  17. Capella says:

    Build up to tomorrow’s announcement continues.
    Nicola Sturgeon warns UK leaders to respect Scotland’s democratic rights

    WESTMINSTER is “taking a wrecking ball” to the idea of the United Kingdom as a voluntary partnership of nations, the First Minister has said.

    Nicola Sturgeon said that the UK Government is seeking to deny the “democratic right” of people in Scotland to choose their own future.

    Sturgeon will tomorrow outline her plans for holding indyref2 to the Scottish Parliament.
    She said that the case for a referendum is “now as much a Scottish democracy movement as a Scottish independence movement”.

  18. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    I wonder if the GMB Union will STILL support the Labour party given how reluctant Labour seem to be to support members of RMT Union and some GMB members via BA workers…..and THEIR rights… strike and to fight back against Tory imposed austerity policies and stagnant wages…..we all know how the GMB via Gary Smith and t’others support Labour’s stance on the actual (non) Union in their UK……maybe some Union members should be asking GMB why they, as a workers UNION, DO actually align with the Labour party when that is NOT reciprocated in support for them as Union members or for members of OTHER worker’s Unions……or indeed align with some of their members within that worker’s Union who DO support Scottish independence….of course Labour are only too visible in GMB strikes marches when it is orchestrated to try and embarrass the SNP e.g. the farce of a march re the Glasgow Women’s equal pay against a SNP Glasgow council in 2018( which initially was the result of a collusion between Labour and the GMB Union opposing it when Labour were in power in that council for these same women) ……

    Here’s a quote from GMB’s site :

    “GMB helped found the Labour Party in 1900 and has campaigned for Labour governments at all levels ever since. We believe electing into government a Party that is made by working people and committed to benefitting working people is the best way to achieve our vision of fairness, equality and social justice in the workplace and society. GMB works to make sure Labour stands up for our members through our affiliation, with a say in decisions made at Party Conference and the Manifesto policies Labour goes into Government with.”

    Has anyone told David Lammy this…because his interviews at the weekend clearly do not support wholeheartedly another Union i.e. the RMT members or indeed the GMB workers where he said ” “categorically” he does not support a potential strike by BA check-in staff”, and thus one must conclude also he is against the GMB’s ” vision of fairness, equality and social justice in the workplace and society”… do Labour only have a (soft) support for worker’s Unions that align with them politically (and financially)?…….I say soft support because it would appear Labour willing to receive support via money and their support in political campaigns from workers Unions…but when push comes to shove….Labour fail to put their money where their mouth is… in talk the talk but when it comes to actually walking the walk….well as New New Labour they are but another version of the Tory party……and their current position via Keir Starmer seems to be NO MORE STRIKES and UNIONS VISIBLE NO MORE ( as might put off SOME voters voting for New New Labour as per propaganda promoted by Tory media)….

    GMB Union are just but another POLITICAL contender that opposes Scotland’s right to democratically vote for their , GMB’s , supposed ” vision of fairness, equality and social justice in the workplace and society”. ..right to another independence referendum……obviously GMB’s vision is NOT one that is afforded to Scotland in their UK…..GMB’s preferred option for Scotland seems to be “electing into government a party” New New Labour or another Tory party…that are committed to forcing some within their (non) Union to stay against their will via having NO democratic right to vote in a democratic referendum to decide THEIR (our) future…..all to to the detriment of “working people” here in Scotland and not actually ” benefitting” them at all…….GMB’s message appears to only apply to SOME within their Union (both ones…workers one and also the UK non one).

    New New Labour like t’other political parties only support ONE (non) Union and we all know why that is…..power and money….career politicians and in some cases Careerists in worker’s Unions too………

    The Force of the (non) Union…..can be beaten where the will of then people UNITE as one……or in Scotland’s case via a majority voting for YES.

    • Capella says:

      Indeed. There’s another National article on this peculiar turn of events from the workers’ party. The Trade Unions created the Labour Party so that they would have democratic representation in Parliament since extra-parliamentary action is deemed illegitimate in our non-democracy.

      David Lammy condemns Labour MPs who joined rail workers on the picket line

      DAVID Lammy has condemned his Labour colleagues who joined striking rail workers saying that a “serious party of government doesn’t join picket lines”.

      Speaking on the BBC’s Sunday Morning show, he said that while the party’s name is Labour, it doesn’t necessarily support the workers union’s decision to strike.

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Indeed Capella …New New Labour just seem to want to support ALL of the WRONG people ALL of the time ….as in the ones who traditionally do NOT support or vote for Labour but usually vote for and support Tory……which also now appears to be also those previous Labour supporters (so called Red Wall) voters who now vote Tory… there NOTHING they, Labour, will not do to try and appease those who instead should be condemned and called out…it appears NOT.

        Scotland not even in the equation of ANY support via New New Labour…..same as always then.

        Cue GMB’s Gary Smith rallying the troops to New New Labour’s defence……a plea to support the political party that does not support the workers… that is a BIG ask……see there are worker’s Unions and then there are workers Unions….ones who actually DO work FOR the workers and ones who seem to only work for themselves and their masters at Labour HQ……

        Many battles to be won against so many Unionist armies …….but only ONE side really on the RIGHT side of yet another unnecessary WAR of words and actions…… and that’s the side that defends it’s right to democracy, free from tyranny and greed and a peaceful transition to become an independent country……now that is NOT a big ask in any democracy unless you do NOT really ” believe electing into government a Party that is made by working people and committed to benefitting working people is the best way to achieve our vision of fairness, equality and social justice in the workplace and society “……as the GMB states they do…..and dependent on which way the political wind is blowing New New Labour will profess to also support……if it returns them to power…currently they think NOW is NOT the TIME to support the workers or Unions though….and tis NEVER the time to support Scottish independence even if it costs them votes here in Scotland…we are expendable voters in THEIR “UK wide Voting” via GE’s (and via EU referendums too it seems and too any majority future desire for another justified Indy Ref)…..

        New New Labour…sit on the fence….only get off the fence when they think it will benefit THEM….never take a strong position for fear it offends or alienates SOME voters …hence why SOME voters choose NOT to want to elect them as their next UK Government….no leadership, no vision, no policies and basically with Starmer as the potential NEW boss…well NO distinction from the OLD boss Boris Johnson either… far as Scotland is concerned Tory, Labour and Lib Dems are just all ONE party who UNITE AGAINST Scotland WHILE UNITING as ONE PARTY for a NON Union and who all worship a false flag that represents a dying PRETEND (non) Union…..

        #PretendNonUnion as a REAL and HONEST message against their latest nonsense i.e. supposed but not REAL or HONEST #PretendReferendum.

        Have a nice day Capella


  19. Legerwood says:

    A useful article in Newsnet on the falling value of the pound. Currency is likely to be next up on the Indy agenda and this article provides useful background.

    On the subject of money- well done Paul on your fundraiser. Very well deserved for all you do.

  20. We are all now part of a Scottish civil rights movement fighting for freedom and democracy.

    The very future of our country and our right to vote is at stake. Britain is becoming Belarus.

  21. Hamish100 says:

    If Johnson and the britnats ( most labour/Lib dems) want to fight against the right of Scots in a court of Law ( Scots Court) can I demand that they include my name as a witness for exerting my right of self determination.

    I am sure many more will ask for this.

    Those britnats who claim that Westminster have all the rights- tough.

  22. Dr Jim says:

    If you think of democracy as a road or a train station that most people in modern countries can walk along or board to go somewhere if they want, then compare and think of Scottish people as not being allowed to take a walk or board that train
    People in England can walk on the road and they can board that train anytime they like because the administration in that country says it’s fine and they can go where they want to or not go because if there’s a vote they get to decide, Scottish peoples votes don’t count

    The Brexit vote was the proof of it because once again Scottish people were told by England sorry but England has decided not to allow Scots to keep walking on the Europe road or take the train to go there, although we are allowing the people in Northern Ireland the opportunity to go if they want to because those folk get upset when their rights gets taken away and there’s every chance they’ll come to England and blow lots of us English people up for daring to curtail their freedom whereas we don’t think the Scots will do that and we don’t want you people getting any notions of leaving us because you people are worth money to us in England and we’re not done sponging it from you yet, whereas Northern Ireland? nyah not so much

    There’s Brexit fatigue and dissatisfaction in England now and it could be over time those folks might eventually decide they want to walk down the Europe road or board that train once again, and if they do they’ll tell us nicely on that day that Scottish people will be allowed to walk that road and board that train once again

    How long are Scottish people going to allow England after these last long three hundred years to keep telling us what we can and can’t do, what we can and can’t be, what we are, who we are?

    England is an abuser nation and Scots are not their wives or children or slaves to be abused, and given in these Islands we are the most emigrated people meaning like slaves we run away a lot, it proves we don’t like being under Englands control, we’ve all heard the comments “They went to Canada for a better life” or Australia or anywhere else in the damn world, and people from Scotland did and still do because they’ve no confidence in Scotland ever providing that better life while under the control of the damned English regime

    It’s time Scottish people stayed where we are and emigrated the control of England out of our country, they’ve had 300 years to improve shit and we’re still leaving, so they’re the problem not us

    • Murdo 8 times loser never voted into a seat Fraser was on GB news listing the things that England will lose iwhen Scotland leaves them to it. 1/3 of the Island, 2/3rds of the coastline, salmon, whisky, the oil and gas, fishing…He must have got hold of Business For Scotland crib sheets.
      Fraser deliberately used the first person plural pronoun when discussing the ‘losses’ with the English anchor.

      ‘We would lose, we would lose, we would lose…itemises the Murdo Failure, ingratiating himself to his English Master by including himself as @english’ in the losses when we take our country back.

      Well, it is hoped that this pointless little man who has pocketed a fortune in MSP wages and exes over twenty years, on the List Gravy Train, but for whom the electorate has never voted, fecks off to Mother England when we pull the plug on his nice little earner.
      I’ll personally drive him to the airport, free of charge.
      To betray the country of your birth is beyond forgiveness.
      Smarmy little man.

      • davetewart says:

        Another is the s kerr from the Stirling area.
        I forced myself to watch his performance in Hollyrood on an amendment to something.
        His complaint was that the SNP are just a complaining party.
        Funny strange that is discourse sounded like his party are just a complaining party.
        It was his own website but he never actually said what the result of his ammendment was, maybe it was passed….over.

        The good news from westmonster tories is that the glorious leader is saying he will be leading the party into the 2030s, great news for the referendum, he will add hugely to the YES support when even the tories don’t support him.

        Lammy was on at the weekend, He won’t support the BA check-in operator’s request for their 10% reduction in pay to help out the company.
        Jack can I help you with the transportation of the many asylum seekers that you’re moving to their country of preference, englandland, I’ll even borrow the cash and put it in a Fortum& Mason plastic bag, seems to be the latest fashion in money laundering.

        • Jack Collatin says:

          You may recall, dave, that one of the most ridiculous claims during the Project Fear One campaign was the headlined declaration that if we had voted Yes 750,000 English ‘settlers’ would flee back to the Motherland….That there are about 350,000 English born who have had the good sense, taste, and have honoured us by moving here, bringing up families, and contributing to our wealth and health as Scots citizens, was of course buried so that this 750,000 exodus could be spread across the Brit MSM as Truth.

          I’d vote for a Resettlement Grant of say, £100, 000 to any exile wanting to flee Scotland and see refuge Down There, or Rwanda even.
          Murdo Fraser will get summarily dismissed by his next employer if he fecks off to watch gers for two days without so much as a by your leave.

          He is one of literally hundreds of Brit Jocks who have warmed their bum in Edinburgh coining it in, for no reason.

          Just imagine the helicopter footage of 30 miles of English refugees and their handcarts trudging South to safety along the A1 and M74.
          Aye, right..

          • Hamish100 says:

            I think we should be paid recompense.
            But they won’t leave – Scotland’s too nice for the retirees.

            Glad there are many English people support Independence. Wish there were more but then I wish there were more Scots. Murdo Fraser and his ilk are an embarrassment to thinking Scots.

    • Imagine Westminster said Ireland had no right to independence and declared it under British rule again, passing a law to that effect. That’s what’s happening with Scotland. It’s not different.

      All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

      The Scots are, unquestionably, a people. That comes from the collective agreement of them that they are that. The 2011 census confirmed this and we can be sure that the 2022 one will too, and more strongly if polling is to be believed.

      I have said plenty of times it is not Scotland that has a right to self-determination, but it’s people. Even if England had wiped out everything separate about our country, such as it’s laws, education system, health system etc, if Scots still collectively saw themselves as Scots and not British through self-id (national identity), and were living in their traditional homeland, then they would have the right to self-determination.

      Self-determination is a basic human right; the right to collectively self determine at the ballot box.

      Self-Determination Integral to Basic Human Rights, Fundamental Freedoms, Third Committee Told as It Concludes General Discussion

      The right to self-determination was an integral element of basic human rights and fundamental freedoms, the Third Committee (Social, Humanitarian and Cultural) heard today as it concluded its general discussion on that subject, and on the elimination of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance.

      There is no doubt that arguing Scottish people have no right to self-determine is fundamentally racist / xenophobic. A majority British / English subjugation of the Scots national minority (in the UK) is literally is like restricting the rights of black people of similar. This is particularly the case as British / English people are afforded the right to self-determination, such as through Brexit.

      The press has told us how the British people freely chose brexit. If you are not British, that doesn’t technically include you. I may have British citizenship by stint of being Scottish, but I’m not a British person and the term ‘British people’ therefore does not apply to me.

      Scottish people specifically voted against the brexit referendum and against brexit. It was the British people who self-determined and are now saying their decision must be forced on another people.

  23. Hamish100 says:

    Ireland’s population has increased.

    I wonder why? -irony.

  24. Alex Montrose says:

    General Sir Patrick Sanders has written to his troops saying, they must prepare “to fight in Europe once again” as the conflict in Ukraine continues.

    The Army lads and lasses from Scotland might be required to fight for the democracy and sovereignty of other countries, whilst they, their families and friends here in Scotland, are being told by a PM ( with the support of 3% of Scots MPs) they can’t have any of that democracy and sovereignty stuff for their own country.

    Not much of a position for Bozo and the rest to defend.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Exactly right, they’ll want our young people to again fight for others right to have that which we in Scotland are denied

      We’re all in it together when they need us to be impressed by their oneness, then when it’s over we’re discarded and they justify their behaviour with petty excuses

      Talking of Englands pettiness it goes right down to even the weather forecast where they show the Republic of Ireland next door yet don’t mention their name and ignore the weather of our nearest neighbours because they had the temerity to leave England, but they do show the weather over the whole of any European holiday destinations *British* people might want to go, as though nobody might ever want to go to Ireland

      British nationalism small and petty

      • davetewart says:

        Even the aviation weather website ignores the weather in the republic althought you can get French information for the channel area.but not much further.
        Think it’s down to clarifying who is in charge.
        Have a look at the broder area between Northern Ireland and the Republic, it is a small series of Straight lines.that has a passing resemblance of the actual border.

      • Welsh_Siôn says:

        This goes deeper.

        Note often how, England, ‘the north of the country’ (aka anything from Yorkshire to Gretna), Scotland, Northern Ireland and ‘the rest of the country’ figure in the forecasts. Guess what’s missing – within this so-called United Kingdom …

        Not to mention the long fight you had to regain the proper size of Scotland on the map.

  25. Hamish100 says:

    Wasn’t it always the case the Scots were told they were fighting for freedom. Just not there’s.

    Another big lie.

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      Something heard in our neck of the woods, on a regular basis, too.

      Doubly insulting when the PM of the day is a Welshman, to boot – sending out cannon fodder to the Somme and Passchendaele …

  26. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    It has been reported that Alistair Carmichael has REFUSED to rule out a possible coalition with the Tory party at the NEXT GE….colour me surprised……their, Lib Dems, supposed publicised POSITIVE contribution in the last coalition was to get a charge on plastic bags (Tax) in return for them supporting MORE Welfare cuts by their partners in Slime the Tories……that seemed a FAIR trade off but only if you as a person do not understand the meaning of the word FAIR…with the words TRADE OFF in this context……many , who still support and vote for the Lib Dems , obviously do not or refuse to acknowledge it happened…..( oh and they , the illiberal undemocratic party ,also reneged on their Manifesto pledge re not putting up tuition fees to show the Tories just how servile (and similar) they, the Lib Dumbs, were as a party…..assume that was in return (fair trade off) for Jo Swinson being allowed to talk Swinsonian in HOC….(she has her own special pronunciation when she speaks that is unique to her with a penchant for elongated vowels in words…needs subtitles or an interpreter)

    Ed Davey said upon winning the by election last week that they, the Lib Dems, were targeting Tory seats ( as he knows Lib Dems are THE natural OTHER choice for Tory voters currently disenchanted with the Tory party and with Boris Johnson as their leader….so basically for Tory voters NOT wanting current Tory party then the Lib Dems aka Tory party 2 ….are THE best alternate option as are very similar in having (no) values and (no) morals)…..Ed Davey however was more reticent when interviewed on the BBC Sophie Raworth on the Sunday Show re his CURRENT position on HIS UK re-joining the EU….as ye cannae win mair Tory votes/seats saying you’ll dae that can yea Monsieur (read as Mon Sewer) Davey…..well he has certainly SLIMMED down his position on future EU membership for HIS UK has he no…..considering the Lib Dems were supposedly once being touted as THE MOST REMAINER party in their UK……though I think that was by THEM…we knew better.

    Now Lib Dem MP Munira Wilson in a TV discussion via @Politics London suggested government could get ARMY involved re Rail strikes….she is now, on Twitter, trying to row back on this by stating she did not say it “for strikes to be broken by army”…yet video is online on what she DID say and others state clearly she DID say re army involvement… as in she said “Government should be working WITH the Army and others to put a contingency plan if these strikes continue”……so basically BREAK the strikes by getting people (Army and OTHERS) in to cross the picket lines ……aye “people” like say “the army” and…”others” was what SHE said …..but who are the “others”….are they the same ones the Tories are suggesting as in ‘temp agency staff’.

    Anyone who pretends that the Lib Dems ( Like New New Labour) are not just another version of the Tory party are either kidding themselves or trying ( and failing to ) kid others……as in people like us who are able to think and thus apply reason when assessing information and situations.

    LIberal – NOPE
    Democrat- NOPE

    Change your party name to Tory Tribute Act 1…….

    Not forgetting also ………..

    New New Labour ( not Labour as in (Pro) workforce more politically motivated party eager for power and financial rewards….with potential for a HOL meal ticket when seen as a spent force as an MP same too for Tories and Lib Dems)

    Change your party name to Tory Tribute Act 2……

    So ALL Unionist political parties have UNITED against the workers and Unions…..and they all talk about the cost of living crisis as in needing to do something about it yet NONE of them are actually suggesting anything to solve it other than them all……..targeting the workers and their Unions seeking a living wage to offset the cost of living crisis and better employment terms …a cost of living crisis NOT caused by the workers but caused by greedy and selfish corporations and individuals who are backed by greedy and selfish politicians ( Unionist ones)……politicians who worship at the alter of Bonuses paid to Chief executives, Pay increases for Chief Executives and huge company profits and better dividends returned to shareholders……but a living wage for the workers supported by Unions to survive in a Brexit infested high inflation divided UK…..well that , according to THEM, is what is bringing their country down…..we all we know what is bringing their UK down…ALL OF THEM…that’s the problem….a rubbish UK government and a weak ineffective political opposition via Unionist parties who are desperate in trying to out Tory the Tories ….plus selfish greedy wealthy people and companies seeking MORE wealth on the backs of those who create ALL of the wealth and strength in their UK…aka the workers themselves……….so who speaks for the workers if not the workers Unions and also decent people.

    Had enough get me the H*ll out of this absolute clusterf*ck of a non country aka their UK.

    Sick of them all………..

  27. stewartb says:

    O/T I’m obliged to Richard Murphy’s Tax Research blog on 24 June for drawing attention to a speech by Labour’s David Lammy delivered to the annual conference of the organisation UK in a Changing Europe.

    Here’s what we learn from the Guardian’s coverage of the speech and the insight it provides into what Labour’s policy position will be regarding Europe when the next UK general election comes round. It provides a further basis for assessing the ‘significance’ of the Labour Party – and indeed remaining in the UK – for Scotland and its European aspirations.

    The Guardian notes: ‘Labour has broken its long silence on Brexit, laying out detailed plans to improve, not scrap, the deal Boris Johnson struck with the EU, in a move it concedes will enrage remain supporters.

    ‘On the sixth anniversary of the Brexit referendum, the shadow foreign secretary, David Lammy, confirmed the party would SEEK ONLY LIMITED CHANGES and would not seek to rejoin the single market which would bring the return of free trade and free movement of people. (my emphasis)

    “We are not going into the next election saying that we will enter the single market or the EU.” He stated: “You might not like it but LABOUR IS DETERMINED TO GOVERN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY,” he said adding “there cannot be a rehash of arguments” made in remainer constituencies like his in London.

    “The BRITISH PEOPLE HAVE MADE A DECISION and we have to honour it, ..”

    Has Labour abandoned Scotland? The implications are now crystal clear for a majority in Scotland wishing to return to the EU or at least to join the EEA. Perhaps uncomfortably, the implications are also crystal clear for those pro-Europeans – including especially Labour supporters – who may be clinging to the hope of re-establishing EU or EEA membership status from within the UK. There is only one feasible path and that’s with Scotland’s independence. False hope needs to be set aside: as Lammy has just confirmed, there is a clear choice to be made!

    Murphy’s own reaction: ‘To not put too fine a point on it, that is full scale electoral cowardice of the first degree.’


  28. Dr Jim says:

    SKY news accepting that there will be a referendum on Scottish Independence by asking the question what can the Queen say or do to prevent it
    The question came up due to a report on the other colonies that Prince Charles had said could leave the Commonwealth and be Independent republics if they so desired

    Nice of them to remind us Scotland is thought of as a colony

    • Golfnut says:

      Coming a week after the Queens biographer announced that the Queen would accept a Yes vote, it’s seems a little strange that Sky news would say this, maybe not. It’s not that long ago that it was announced that the Queen was planning to thwart the plans to hold indyref.
      Confused, your meant to be.

  29. Capella says:

    I sometimes buy a tea towel etc from the Radical Tea Towel Co. They send me a newsletter with stories about various radicals of history. Today it was James Stewart Parnell. This observation rang a bell:

    In 1801, partly as a response to the Uprising of 1798, Westminster passed an Act of Union between Britain and Ireland which abolished the latter’s Parliament.

    Henceforth, Ireland would elect and send MPs to London.

    In theory, this was supposed to give Ireland a clearer voice in policy-making. In practice, it dissolved the main institution for Irish self-government, and Westminster happily ignored the minority of new Irish MPs.

    I give the subversive tea towels as presents. Generous to a fault!

    • Welsh_Siôn says:

      You all know we didn’t even have a Parliament at the time of our Anschluss (I mean ‘union’) with England in 1535, but this should ring bells, too, now that we have one (of sorts).

      UK Government confirm they will scrap Welsh law as part of trade union crackdown

      27 Jun 2022 3 minute Read

      The UK Government have confirmed that they will scrap a law passed by the Senedd, as part of their push to crack down on trade unions.

      It was revealed last week that the UK Government’s aim was that the law that will attempt to reduce the effectiveness of strikes would apply in Wales as well.

      The UK Government has now said that the Trade Union Wales Act in 2017, which prohibited using temporary workers to cover industrial action, will be done away with.

      The UK government said it “intends to legislate to remove the Trade Union (Wales) Act 2017 through primary legislation when Parliamentary time allows, to ensure trade union legislation applies equally across Great Britain”.


      • Capella says:

        Anschluss it is. So if they scrap laws passed by the Senedd they have rendered the devolution settlement null and void. Didn’t last long did it!

      • Alex Clark says:

        That action by this disgrace of a government makes devolution a total sham, only full Independence will rid Wales and Scotland of Westminster interference.

  30. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, so basically the Bill of (lack of) Rights, if enacted, could result in:

    If the UK is persistently in breach of its treaty obligations, the Council of Europe [1] would presumably have no choice but to exclude the UK as it did Russia, or risk undermining the integrity of human rights protections across Europe.

    [1] That’s the one the UK is still part of – with 46 member states.

    This isn’t going to end well.

  31. Dr Jim says:

    Holyrood statement by the FM 2.20 PM Tuesday

  32. Sharon says:

    I tried to share this to my yes page that I help run and FB said it’s spam. So they’re at it again. I challenged the decision and they’re saying I may not get a reply due to covid!

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