Boycotting Douglas Ross

With the publication of the first in the Scottish Government’s series of papers setting out a renewed case for independence, the second independence referendum campaign has now got underway. As was entirely predictable the usual British nationalist suspects have not taken it well. Kevin Hague of the anti-independence group “These Islands” reacted to the first paper, comparing Scotland in the UK with a range of comparable northern European nations all of which perform better on a number of metrics than Scotland within the UK by sniffing that the Scottish Government had “cherry picked” the comparator nations and saying that on the metrics examined in the paper, Scotland as a part of the UK has a better economic record than the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Greece, or Portugal.

So let’s have a brief look at those countries. The Czech Republic and Slovakia, as Czechoslovakia, had a totalitarian Communist regime for almost 45 years after WW2 with a centrally directed command economy. The Czech Republic, the more economically developed of the two, was occupied by Nazi Germany and after the war deported its huge German minority who made up a third of the entire population and who occupied the most economically advanced parts of the country. Since the fall of communism both the Czech Republic and Slovakia have faced the challenges of building market economies and establishing secure democratic structures.

Like Slovakia, Greece and Portugal were traditionally agrarian economies which never experienced the early and intense industrialisation seen in Scotland. Greece embarked upon a disastrous war with Turkey after WW1 which resulted in the deportation of over a million Turks and Greek speaking Muslims from Greece and the need to integrate over a million and a half refugees from Anatolia into Greek society, many of whom were Turkish speaking Christians who did not know the Greek language. Throughout the inter war period Greece was marked by economic crises and political instability which ended up with a military coup and the dictatorship of Ioannis Metaxas. in WW2 Greece was occupied by both Italy and Nazi Germany, causing widespread destruction. After the war there was a civil war between pro-communist partisans and the right wing which lasted until 1949. The following years were marked by social strife and political instability until the coup of 1967 installed a far right military dictatorship which lasted until 1974.

Portugal was another traditionally agrarian economy which was marked by political instability. The republican revolution of 1910 abolished the monarchy and over the next 15 years Portugal had 45 different governments. A military coup in 1926 led to the establishment of the right-wing dictatorship of the Estado Novo under António de Oliveira Salazar in 1933. For almost fifty years Portugal languished under a far right dictatorship which was only brought to an end with the left wing military coup of 1974, known as the Carnation Revolution, which paved the way for the restoration of democracy. Portugal’s economy had been devastated throughout the 1950s and 1960s by the dictatorship’s disastrous pursuit of wars in Portugal’s large African colonies of Angola, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau, which the dictatorship had refused to decolonise even as Britain and France were granting independence to their African possessions.

So basically Hague is claiming that as part of the UK Scotland has performed better than actual dictatorships which have been scarred by war and political instability. This is not the great advertisement for Westminster rule that he seems to think it is.

Meanwhile, Douglas Ross has insisted that he will boycott an “illegal” “wildcat” referendum, and I am probably not alone in wishing that Scotland could boycott Douglas Ross. He insists that he would still boycott the referendum even though he claims to be confident that the no campaign would win it, which makes Ross possibly the first politician in history to assert that he would not participate in a democratic event which he claims would only bolster his own position. It seems that for Ross it’s the principle of the thing that matters, the principle being that the people of Scotland should only ever be allowed to vote when Boris Johnson says it’s OK, although since Ross also thinks that Boris Johnson is unfit for office then maybe he really ought to ask the people of Scotland why they should respect Johnson’s wishes when he himself so clearly doesn’t. Ross’s branch office has not been on winning side in Scotland for decades and every time that he tells the electorate to tell the SNP that Scotland doesn’t want another referendum his party just gets another kicking.

If Ross’s boycott means he’s also going to boycott all media appearances about the referendum then I’m all for it. We’d get peace and quiet from his purse lipped Tory negativity and one less no voter. What’s not to like?

Of course a referendum held without a Section 30 order need not necessarily be either “illegal” or “wildcat”. The First Minister has made it clear that she does not intend to hold an unlawful referendum and has promised that the Scottish Government will shortly reveal a major update on plans to hold a referendum even without a Section 30 order. However the real question for Ross and his British nationalist cronies – we’re looking at you here Anas Sarwar – is that if the exercise of democracy is “illegal” in this so-called union then why exactly should Scotland remain within the confines of a political structure which criminalises the free and peaceful democratic expression of the will of the people of Scotland. It is also then incumbent upon Ross and Sarwar to spell out exactly how the people of Scotland are supposed to express their wish for another independence referendum and the mechanism by which this supposedly voluntary union will deliver it.

Yet whenever this question is put to Ross and Sarwar all we get are variations on the theme of why they do not want another independence referendum. We know that already, both of them told us at great and tedious length in the 2021 Holyrood election campaign all the reasons why they do not want another independence referendum, and the people of Scotland listened to their arguments and went ahead and voted for a Scottish Parliament with a large majority of MSPs from parties committed to delivering another independence referendum. That is the only process which we have which allows the people of Scotland to say whether or not they want another referendum and the people have unequivocally said that they want one.

So if this process does not suffice for Ross and Sarwar, they have an obligation to say what does suffice, them rehashing their arguments from an election which they lost is not going to cut it. The fact is that every time they refuse to specify exactly how the people of Scotland are supposed to exercise their right to choose the form of government best suited to their needs, they bolster the case for independence because they merely reinforce the view that the democratic wishes of the people of Scotland will not be heeded within this so called union. After all, if the right of the people of Scotland to choose the form of government best suited to their needs really is subject to a veto from a Prime Minister which Scotland did not vote for and whose party has a mere six Westminster seats in Scotland, four of which are held by MPs who recently voted that they had no confidence in him, then the people of Scotland do not after all have the right to choose the form of government best suited to their needs. That right then belongs to the aforementioned Prime Minister. British nationalism may be defined by its exceptionalism but Ross and Sarwar cannot have it both ways.

The anti-independence media in Scotland proves that it sees its primary task not as informing the people of Scotland but rather as acting as agents of British nationalism because it consistently tells us that a Section 30 order is needed for a referendum and that Johnson is not disposed to grant one and then as sure as a ferry crisis story in the Herald fails to follow up on what this means for Scotland and for the character of this supposed union that those same anti-independence media outlets are keen to inform us is defined by its voluntary nature. Neither do they press Ross and Sarwar and the other apologists for the British state on exactly how the people of Scotland are supposed to express their will for another referendum. However if the democratic choices of the people of Scotland really are subject to the whims of the occupant of Downing Street then this is not a voluntary union and the unionism sold to us by the Scotsman, the Herald, the Record and the BBC is founded on a lie.

This question goes to the very heart of the matter of independence. Independence is fundamentally about ensuring that the people of Scotland get what they choose in a democratic free and fair election. If Scotland cannot get that within the UK then the UK is neither democratic nor free and fair. It is telling indeed that the British nationalist parties and the anti-independence media consistently dodge this question. It’s almost as though they are terrified of the response of the people of Scotland when they get the answer. A refusal by Johnson to a Section 30 order is not the get out of jail free card that British nationalists think it is, it merely confirms that the union is dead and that the people of Scotland can only exercise their democratic rights in an independent and sovereign Scottish state.

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46 comments on “Boycotting Douglas Ross

  1. jfngw says:

    The unionists in Holyrood consists mainly of two types, those with Westminster ambitions and the perpetual list MSP (you know who they are), happy to sit in the parliament to undermine it for another countries benefit. They will stay on this gravy train in perpetuity, soaking up their comfortable salary and contributing nothing to Scotland, undermining and criticising every aspect of the country, rubbishing every occupation in their pursuit of continued unionism. One minute they will clap the NHS the next they will be telling you how poorly their performance is.

    They are parliamentary trolls, just spitting out the latest edict from their HQ in London.

  2. Melvin says:

    Great work yet again, thank you.I hope you have your pc in good order as, we are going to need you.

    The launch of the first paper, was excellent well, presented and concise. I doubted that the SNP would ever take the fight to the British state. I am delighted to be wrong. I left the party and Joined ALBA , because of frustration and lack of progress. If the SNP are serious about this then ,I am sure that ALBA will be campaigning right-beside ( I just hope the SNP are not childish about this) them for independence, we are on the same side , we love our country and our people and are sick of being treated like cannon fodder and resources. To be disposed of by the British state. Let’s get behind the campaign and convince one person each of the merits of our future independence.

    This time we are going to win and the British have nothing but lies and damn lies to fight us with…oh and the orange bigots of course, who no doubt will be playing god save the queen til the cows come home. But they may also be busy trying to stop a united Ireland at the same time, so maybe the SNP and greens timing is perfect.

    The UK is in a mess with the Tories and Scotland will need to keep the head and focus on the prize, let the British make even more mistakes , and stamp their feet sweeping like weans….we will just , focus on gaining our freedom and our place in the world again.

  3. Melvin says:

    I’ve read the article four times and it’s just fantastic, you set out the case perfectly, I hav e the same discussions with unionists that , I know , to try to get them to understand that they may not agree with Independence, but their refusal to acknowledge democracy will not end well for them or the British state. The British state will fight tooth and nail to prevent the referendum and , I believe that’s exactly what the SNP believes, the British state delay and delay, but they can’t can’t delay forever.
    Every British prime minister would hate to be the one that “lost” Scotland, Which in itself is a telling phrase, as they think we are a colony and just like the USA ,they think of us in the same way.

    Keep us without democracy and tax the hell out of us.

    This time they will either cave in or fight us, I hope that they fight us, ( politically of course) as they have nothing that will convince our starting team of 45% and our team will grow and grow. The British state will have a political fight for its survival on two fronts, in Ireland and in Scotland, all we need do ,is watch them squirm and convulse and stamp their feet. The end is night for the union and we will be here to see it and tell our descendants that we did it for them.

  4. Christopher Rosindale says:

    The reasons why Sarwar and Ross don’t want Indyref2 are:

    1) They might lose – ever since the late Alex Ferguson MSP said this out loud, on the Tory campaign trail in Dumfries in 2015, I have firmly believed this. The only sure way for the Unionists to win Indyref2 is for it not to happen at all. Unlike their complacency in 2014, when they assumed from the outset that the No side would win, they now know very well that they could easily lose….

    2) Their bosses down in London are scared to death of what Scottish Independence would do to England. As George Osborne revealed in his January 2021 Evening Standard article, the Tories’ privately fear that England will be left small, weak and globally irrelevant if Scotland walks out of the Union.The English have a very weak sense of their own national identity, for they submerged it into the British one after 1707. The break-up of the Union would expose this weakness, and force them to confront it….

    They do not know how to do so, and are scared of its consequences.

    Combined with the permanent loss of the British identity, which is all that the English have known since 1707, and all of the history tied-up with it, they will find themselves plunged into a long, painful and very difficult national identity crisis, the outcome of which will define their place in the world far into the future.

    Their desperate desire to prevent this by denying us the right to choose our own future betrays these 2 fears, and instead of making them look strong, makes them look weak, insecure and frightened. From their contortions over the Northern Ireland Protocol, they are probably very worried that losing Northern Ireland from the Union will have a similar impact.

  5. Excellent, Paul
    It has started.
    Kevin Hague, cherrypicking?
    A brilliant dismantling of this man’s vacuous argument.
    Perhaps some one cleverer than I can trawl through the footage of the ‘debates’ which the TV Hacks chaired during Indyref 1 and garner the ‘Yes But interventions by the Brit Chairs to interrupt the flow of independence speakers contributions to the question being discussed.
    I recall Gordon Brewer declaring that there was no ‘power’ grab, that a ‘shedload of powers’ would be transferred from Brussels to Edinburgh from Brexit..they didn’t of course. We had the UKIM Bill instead.
    The only way to guarantee remaing in the EU was to vote NO?
    THere must be hunners of clips of Campbell, Cook, McKay, and the Motley Crew of hacks spouting the Project Fear lies.
    8 years is enough proof in this Dugger’s pudding.
    When Glenn Chairs the inevitable debates, perhaps he should be reminded of some of the Yes But interventions he came out with during the campaign.
    Prices would go up in the shops? Really?
    Where is Gordon Brewer now?
    I all seriousness, Ross, Sarwar, and the Tailor’s Dummy will be eaten alive when the gloves come off and sleeves rolled up.

    • grizebard says:

      We had better not allow those TV debates chaired by the likes of dyed-in-the-wool Unionists like Glenn Campbell, with audiences composed of people whose allegiances are problematic, to say the least. I well remember one distinctive young black guy who was presented in one of those shows as “undecided” before the debate and “no” after it, who then appeared on another as (guess what?) “undecided” before and afterwards… (!).

      The BBC in particular has a charter which is unambiguously Unionist, so that broadcaster should be formally declared partisan right from the off.

  6. Hamish100 says:

    Have a good laugh or a greet!
    Labour Tory Lying shits

    • keaton says:

      Best bit is when she refers to the First Minister as “that guy off the telly”

    • grizebard says:

      Which ads still stand up today and which don’t? Which ones keep banging on about the risks and all the things we’ll supposedly lose, and which genuinely look forward to a better country for all?

      Oh, and have we got that “stronger parliament” so earnestly promised by Broon?

      • The wee housewife sitting with her cup of tea having seen her man off to work and the kids off to school, looking down at ‘Paul’s’ empty unwashed cereal bowl with a rueful smile on her face as she recounts the tale of the ‘man of the house’ nagging her about making up her mind on which way she would vote. before she gets on with the washing up…..
        It was a vote loser at the time..8 years later? Oh, let’s hope that they air it again.
        And North Briton Brown lying….
        And BAE shipyards with ship builders with hard hats in the No advert? Vote YES and the jobs move to England. Alister Carmichael actually visited Southampton and promised the good citizens our jobs if Scotland voted YES.
        And the elder lady worrried about her pension if she voted Yes?.
        I wonder what she thinks this year now that her Union has cut her state pension by 7% this year?

        They have nothing to lie to us about, nothing with which to threaten us, nothing they can reference as the benefits of voting No the last time.
        WE have lived through 8 years of continued oppression by a foreign government.
        No more.
        I don’t see Rishi Sunak heading North to declare that we shall be forbidden from using the £, do you?

        • Welsh_Siôn says:

          There’s a follow up – where Paul gets to have his say – which was produced by a YES Group during the run up to Indy Ref 1.

          I loved that and would be delighted to see it again, but googling hasn’t helped me locate it, yet.

          Anyone else able to unearth it? (Warning – It does contain some earthy language in places.)

  7. Dr Jim says:

    I think there may be some who will express huge faux disappointment in the way this campaign is going to progress because it’s not going to mirror the last one which made the many mistakes of informing and involving the media so much so that it took over the campaign on their terms and handed them the ability to set the timetable in the same way, Nicola Sturgeon demonstrated that very clearly yesterday by telling them the amount of information that she wanted them to know and no more until she is ready to tell them more

    Too much media control handed the opposition control of the narrative, that was a serious mistake and a failure Nicola Sturgeon will have learned from and won’t repeat

    I believe the FM will control the timing and speed of events because that’s the attention to detail kind of person she is, open your mouth and everybody knows everything so she’ll keep her mouth firmly closed until it’s time to open it

  8. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Aye indeed well said Paul.

    We all remember Labour’s PROMINENT presence in 2014 Indy ref campaign for the NO side where they made doomsday PREDICTIONS should Scotland vote YES to Independence….and lo and behold their predictions came TRUE…..only problem being we did NOT vote YES ……we voted NO….alas….. but spot on re predictions post 2014….

    Labour’s Johann Lamont standing outside a major supermarket with BIG signs warning that independence would mean higher food prices……..but we didn’t vote YES we voted NO and they, food prices, HAVE become HIGHER…Tick.

    Scotland were threatened with expulsion from the EU if we voted Yes and in 2014 BT tweeted out the following tweet ” What is the process of removing our EU citizenship.? Voting YES”…..another PREDICTION that came true…..but we didn’t vote YES we voted NO (and we voted to REMAIN in the EU in 2016) but now just as NO side predicted we are being forced to leave EU BUT only as as part of their UK. Tick.

    ***”Renewables subsidies – Ed Davey, the then UK energy secretary, said: “Scotland could lose billions in renewable energy subsidies with a Yes vote and would put our green energy revolution at risk”. Davey claimed that 33 per cent of UK subsidies for wind, wave and tidal projects (£530m a year) came to Scotland and so independence would ‘slam the brakes on wind farm projects’”***…………and lo and behold ….another PREDICTION came true…..but we did not vote YES we voted NO….*** BUT voting NO HAS NOW SEEN *** “drastic cuts to the public funding of onshore wind-farms have been announced which Renewables Scotland claim could reduce Scotland’s economy by £3 billion” ***.Also…..***”Carbon capture – Davey also claimed the vital climate change project at Peterhead would be endangered as he signed a deal with Shell and Scottish and Southern Energy. However, after the referendum, Westminster pulled its promised £1bn of support and the project failed”***…#Another prediction came true BUT we did NOT vote YES we voted NO…….so yet ANOTHER …Tick

    ( Now Boris Johnson’s Tory government has shafted North East Scotland by betraying it in NOT awarding it the first stage of a new carbon capture and storage facility instead they are being being given to sites near Humber and Liverpool)

    ***Sourced from Business For Scotland website

    The above is but just a fraction of predictions made by the NO side which have come TRUE however they were only realised and were only the actual consequences by voting NO to Independence in 2014 instead of voting YES to independence in 2014……almost as if they , the NO side, were absolutely accurate and sh*t hot at predictions….just not what it was that would make them transpire…..as in they have proven that they were predicting outcomes for the WRONG side…..not that any media will go into any forensic detail about these past claims/predictions from the NO side as that would damage THEIR side….no instead the media will regurgitate all things said by the YES side allegedly (some NOT at all were said) like ‘once in a generation’…..but they may also use the old chestnuts ‘what currency will you use….’you said before you still wanted to use the pound is that still the case’….’How will you get into the EU with your deficit’…….the media will also used the tried and trusted position they always hide behind as in ‘some critics say’ ‘some ExpeRts (Unionists ones) say’ ‘the opposition say’ etc etc in order to plant seeds of doubt among the Scottish electorate still unsure about independence but also to reaffirm the allegiance of those others in Scotland who are still 100% committed to staying in their (non) Union.

    From now on we could all write the script for the NO side including their media…with some other additional new kids on the block to add to their tried (AND TIRED) and tested objections and doomsday predictions……but history and what we have learnt from it since 2014 ,more so from the NO side, has proven that no one can PREDICT 100% what outcomes will 100% occur…..because as they predict then lo and behold this and then that will happen that leaves ALL their predictions fallen by the wayside in the way that THEY said they would pan out i.e. opposite happened via voting No (and WORSE)….. ………as we all know, as they do, that so much can happen in the interim period that kicks into touch those supposed ‘accurate’ predictions spouted with such authority ..YET CLEARLY HISTORY HAS SHOWN THE OCCURANCES AS PREDICATED BY THEM (NO SIDE) WERE NOT AS THEY SAID VIA VOTING YES TO INDY BUT BY 100% VOTING NO VIA MAJORITY PERCENTAGE (55%) IN 2014…..who would have THUNK it….(well actually they knew what they said was rubbish and not worth the predictions they spouted BUT hey needs must and their desperation meant lies and false promises, pledges and dubious predictions had to be deployed in order for them to try and win the vote in 2014…a hollow victory for sure based on the here and now of the mess that exists within THEIR UK and pretty much THANKS to those on the NO side campaign as far as Scotland concerned ).

    As to Dross he of Flip Floppery much like the Baroness was also (in)famous for…..

    The chances of Dross boycotting anything connected with independence is only credible if you also believe he is a great politician and strategist for his party…..in other words NOPE….Dross only boycotts the media when times are tough for Tories then he channels his inner ‘Invisible man’ act…mind you the media don’t exactly actively seek him out in those times of trouble…no instead they allow him space and enough time to concoct some spin to bat away the critics (who are not the media BTW or 9 times out of ten other Unionist opposition parties either) and spew out more #SNPBAD to deflect away from the Glass house he inhabits.

    Their predictions are are as reliable as the ones Uri Geller makes……and his bent spoons ( trick) is more credible than their bent promises, pledges and predictions….as they are TRICKS as well.

  9. yesindyref2 says:

    I seriously don’t think the People of Scotland will boycott a referendum – we tolerate political parties, but don’t obey them. In fact if Douglas Ross tells people to boycott a referendum it could increase turnout to over 90%.

    Anyways, casting my e’e around to get reactions, I looked ata Bella, and with an article “Will there be another referendum?” a day or two before the release of the paper, quite cynical but not as bad as many. Now, afterwards, only one article “Johnny and the Bishops”, which does refer briefly and reasonably favourably. I’m going to guess this kind of almost hands-off approach suits Bella’s readership, though references in that first article to Shafi who thinks he too must be obeyed by all YES, like McAlpine and his merry men, are a bit concerning.

    A little message here to any of these self-appointed leaders of YES – F*** O** with your instructions, your codes, and “We must all” – did you ever consider what the word “Independence” means? It means being beholden to nobody, nobody at all. Under nobody’s thumb for ever.

    Mmm, back to my cup of tea and Bridie.

  10. bringiton says:

    The British state and it’s supporters will stay as far away from the democracy argument as possible because they know they haven’t a leg to stand on.
    So,they have already started with the “If you think Brexit was bad…..” and Project Fear 2.0

    • grizebard says:

      Yes, they really can’t do otherwise. “Life may be shit for you now, but it could get so much worse”.

      But there comes a time when people get so fed up with the state of things that they decide “what’s there left to lose?” and “anything’s better than this!”. And there’s that long and sorry trail of BT broken promises from last time… The dark magic of PF2.0 will likely still work, but maybe not sufficiently well this time. (As long as we don’t try to counter it with nothing more than “kumbaya”.)

      The FM is astute, she already kicked off with a punt at Brexit, in effect saying “we can undo all that”. And this time Perfidious Albion in its way, and her own assiduous efforts to engage with the EU, have made sure that this time there will be no Barroso popping-up on Marr to help the Brits out.

      • Dr Jim says:

        It’ll be way worse than Brexit they say

        So at least admitting Brexit was bad is a start, but implying Scotland can’t learn from their mistakes is a bit thick of them

        • Not-My-Real-Name says:

          Aye Dr Jim ….BUT this argument re independence will be ‘worse than Brexit’ does not make much sense…

          AS….with BREXIT for their UK…..

          Tories STILL support and uphold it as do the DUP as a UK policy.
          Labour say they will make it work in their UK.
          Lib Dems, via Ed Davey, said they will NOT seek to rejoin the EU thus must be seen to be now accepting it and also in doing so must then be embracing it too as an ongoing position of their UK with their party……

          So how can they compare and contrast it as a BAD policy when tis the very thing they all, as political parties , currently endorse…..for the future of THEIR UK ?

          Those who oppose Brexit i.e. Remainers must see we in Scotland did NOT vote for it and if THEY present Independence as being a worse outcome than Brexit then one has to ask ‘Why does being a independent country and then potentially returning as a member of the EU a bad thing when you said being IN the EU was best option for YOUR UK ‘ ?

          Lots of conflicting opinions also known as another Project Fear BUT with no HARD evidence to assume Scotland as independent country will flounder…..indeed based on current evidence as a member of the EU we , an independent Scotland, will prosper far better in comparison to the now exited member of the EU aka an isolated insular English Nationalist country who put their trust in a Boris Johnson ( and t’other leaders of their party) led government…..and look how that is working out…..very badly it CLEARLY seems.

          • grizebard says:

            I think you’re right about the arguments, but one mustn’t underestimate the insidious effect of making people scared of losing even what little they still have.

            Ironically, this works best with the better-off, the relatively confortable ones who don’t need food banks but have more to lose and yet who still (within their own bubble) feel that life’s getting harder. Many of them having voted Remain. They’re put in the biggest dilemma, and they’re perhaps the ones who will swing it one way or the other.

            For the sorely hard-pressed, the typical difficulty there is to persuade these habitually disengaged non-voters that there’s a future on offer for them that’s worth voting for too. That’s probably the biggest potential gain to be made, but also the most difficult to achieve. For them Project Fear is intentionally suppressive. Bitterly ironic as that may be for the Union’s Labour collaborators in particular (if they only thought about it).

    • grizebard says:

      Oh, and the “Hard Border Blues”. That will get a very big outing. But Nicola is a smart cookie, and she has already signalled that she sees that one coming, and is preparing a brighter, more catchy tune of her own.

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Indeed to both your comments above…

        However re Hard Border that is being tagged with ‘UK internal market’ that is another argument that does not make sense as the Tories are going to such great pains to insist there IS a workable solution to the border ‘issues’ for NI and a EU member Southern Ireland …….however conveniently they do NOT see a similar workable solution to England and a potential Independent Scotland in the EU…not being naïve here just exposing how ‘selective’ they are at what potentially is same …though I respect NI is distinct with the Good Friday Agreement …….but that I know is not what drives the Tories and Brexiteers as a primary consideration.

        Perhaps they also neglect to note the fact that some UK companies have relocated offices in Dublin to still have a foot in the door of the EU….so yet again why would UK businesses not do the same if an independent Scotland was in the EU…..as in transfer business here to Scotland.

        I fear they (intentionally) underestimate the economic cost to their UK in leaving the EU and what is does to undermine their case for us in Scotland remaining in their UK…..and also ignore how it benefits the case/argument for an independent Scotland potentially joining the EU thus reaping the rewards that it has to offer going forward…….economically.

        Yes Nicola is a smart cookie….and yes she is, I am sure, more than ready to bat off all concocted opposition aka fake opposition and PREDICTIONS not PREDICTIONS …..more a Unionist Crystal Ball…cloudy judgement included….when the mist clears all will be revealed…..again….but will not be as they predicted …..see 2014 onwards as evidence.

  11. This time we Go Large. On the week before the vote, organise massive Pro Independence events.
    Music festivals throughout Scotland..concerts packed with pro Scotland headliners. The Proclaimers At Murrayfield…Gerry Cinnamon at Hampden..and so on, at venues throughout this land.
    Announce massive What’s in it for me structural and economic changes which will be implemented from Day One.
    Announce the list fo Departments which will be created job numbers and locations.
    Do Industry in Glasgow. Agriculure in Perth Tax in Inverness….
    Spread the wealth.
    Very publicly recount negotiations undertaken by our government with foreign investors..manufacturers, finance houses, renewable energy partners.

    Make Big Announcements which Glenn Campbell and the Hack Pack can’t ignore.
    Tell pensioners what’s in it for them; Pensions rising in line with comparable EU countries. Outlaw food banks.

    WE campaign now…and keep it going relentlessly day on day until that autumn day next year when we finally rid ourselves of English control of any aspect of our lives in Scotland.
    WE need a bit of razzmatazz.
    They’ll wheel out Brown and Rape Clause….and Blair Mc Dougall.
    David Bowie?

  12. JP58 says:

    I suspect the No side will not engage as they are worried they will lose another Referendum. Brexit and Johnson’s rule have weakened the case for staying in Union.
    They will try to spread apathy by saying that result will not be accepted and there is no point voting.
    Yes will need to not only convince floating voters that life will be better under Independence but also that there is a viable path to independence if Westminster does not acknowledge result. They are now quite happy to break international law and trash Human Rights so I don’t see them accepting a Yes vote.
    If Yes get less than 1.6 million they will claim support is dropping and if less than 2 million they will say this is less than No in 2014 so it is a high bar.
    None of the above should stop Referendum and Independence if Yes wins but they are the hard facts of what has to be achieved.
    Scotland leaving UK is unthinkable for Westminster as there would be a massive loss of prestige, power (of all sorts), confidence and finance. Westminster will try everything they know to avoid it.

    • Drew Anderson says:

      Bitter together will engage, I seriously doubt they’ll be able to keep their collective traps shut. They won’t be able to resist the urge to dish the sneers and smears.

      As for “Scotland leaving UK”; that’s got a whiff of concern trollery about it. Few would conflate Brexit and Indy terminology from the indy side.

      Let’s be clear, there is no “leave or leaving”, only ending the UK.

      • JP58 says:

        I would not be so sure Better Together will reform and engage. UK government only agreed to last referendum because they thought they would win easily. They now know that they could well lose this Referendum and I honestly think they cannot contemplate this happening so they will try to avoid by not acknowledging and not engaging.
        Leaving or ending? – there will still be 3 countries and I am sure they will call themselves UK – frankly I don’t care what they call themselves.
        It is when people say they are ‘losing Scotland’ they really show how they consider Scotland.

  13. Hamish100 says:

    I see the other so called pro Indy sites such as Yours for Scotland are anti FM , anti SNP and the general view that we are doomed.
    I think over the next year the true pro independence sites will shine through.
    I hope the others die on the vine. Hell hath no fury such as an expunged politico.

    So many annoyed that the announcement for a referendum has now taken place. Shows that for the past few years they have been found to be talking mince.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      There’s this quote from SGP: “In all seriousness, I think we are making some progress now.” which shows some people are strong enough to be prepared to change their views, even while being naturally cautious.

      Those that can’t change are as weak as a 3 week old watered down rice pudding.

      • Dr Jim says:

        That’s the eh *let’s sew as much disillusion as we can* website, the Alba mantra praying for the day they can triumphantly say *we told you so* but in the meantime let’s keep being destructive

  14. Hamish100 says:

    Or unionists!

  15. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    I have just watched a video of Brexit Party MEP Brian Monteith ( but actually a TORY) on Tory channel GB News…when asked by presenter ” What do Scots get positively out of membership of the Union of the UK” ?

    Long Pause…fair enough as is HARD question to answer truthfully and with REAL credible and honest examples.

    Then Monteith comes up with ” We are a family”….well purlease have him on again if that’s the BEST he can come up with……Whose the Daddy then Brian ?

    Of course there are families and then there are families…..black sheep of families, poor relations, abuse in families, dysfunctional families, power struggles…I mean if anyone were to come with a worse comparison of the (non) Union as being a ‘Family’ well I’ll wait…..as for me that is in the Top 5 worst analogy i have heard so far……

    Give the man a coconut…..where I dare not say….as in where he should shove it….. such intellect and strong argument….MISSING…from him….Wahahahaha

    • Golfnut says:

      At least, I hope, he didn’t go for the one nation Britain trope. The UKSC 2016/196 has interesting opinions on this. It’s a long read, it deals also with constitutional differences between westminster and Scotland. It’s a long but interesting read. I’ll post a link if your interested. They sanitised press summary doesn’t even mention Scotland, for good reason.

  16. Dr Jim says:

    I do hope an explanation of the Barnet formula is included within the upcoming documents so that anyone really interested can read and understand that it’s not about England giving Scotland money

    The amount of people who do not understand Scotlands income is staggering and this has always left it open to disinformation from the Unionists who constantly refer to it as a benefit

  17. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Deporting people to Rwanda IS a an awful awful policy that the Tories have come up with as a (non) solution to appease those who walk among us who dislike ‘furriners’…

    However I note that a majority of Twitter accounts who since 2016 have made it their raison d’être in their Twitter accounts to expose and demonise all things Brexit related……and that they see Labour as somehow their political salvation to the problems that come with having a current Boris Johnson led Tory party in as the UK Government…

    YET….on Twitter Adam Bienkov (the Political editor of Byline Times) has now tweeted :

    “Keir Starmer’s spokesman says that Labour does not want the UK to rejoin the Single Market and it’s “now the job of all of us to make [Brexit] work.”

    Oh dear…..what a shame….welcome to OUR world prominent liberal minded Remainers ..and see Labour for who they truly truly are……I fear that you will as per come late to the party in discovering that labour offer NO salvation to anyone other than those same sources that donate and support the Tory party you allegedly hate……just as you came late to the party in seeing that the BBC were NOT as impartial as you formerly assumed they were……but like Brexiteers you ignored us …was it because we are what you see as ‘separatists’ ?…thus we cannot aid you and YOUR country in rejoining the EU…..I mean surely Otto English, Ian Dunt and even FEMI will eventually concede this very pertinent point…that is that Labour are a Brexit party just like the Tories…..and supporting them is merely swapping one Tory party for another !!!

    Just wait until they start on us ……we can rely on no one but OURSELVES it seems….but we knew that already.

  18. Golfnut says:

    For PETRA, short and to the point, she would have liked this.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/215556435841901/permalink/1122896018441267/

  19. Dr Jim says:

    Labour MP David Lammy confirmed on SKY news today that Labour in Scotland is a branch office in Glasgow when questioned by news presenter Niall Paterson

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      Dr Jim I saw video on Twitter…SKY Niall Paterson asked Lammy if Branch office the same (of Labour Party) and David Lammy said ‘Yes’..Ha Ha…clueless he does not even know that is what we call them as he like other Labour HQ politicians know nowt about what is happening in Scotland beyond their, HQ Labour, rants on #SNPBAD and #IndependenceBad…….

      Good to know they are THE branch office though…confirmation.

      LOL indeed.

  20. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    I’m thinking of writing to the BBC asking them if they could put a Public Health warning prior to broadcasting both Question Time and Debate Night as those viewers with a delicate and nervous disposition can be adversely affected with the input and output from certain members of the panel and PLANTED and clueless members of the audience…..I mean it does not impact me as I , via medical advice, was advised NOT to watch either programmes …however as I CARE for my fellow men and women I think this would be a safer policy that they should adopt……and the BBC in Scotland is OBSESSED with the Scottish NHS…so fair’s fair.

    If I do write to them I expect the usual template letter as a response but not actually an honest response…..however if they were honest as to who they really are and how much they do not actually care they could just send me back an A4 sheet with a huge ‘NO’ in the middle which would be a true reflection of how little they value me and fellow Scots as viewers…..though sure numbers are minimal in Scotland for BOTH of these programmes…and others too via the BBC and it’s licence Fee…………

    Mind you via t’other channels there is also nothing of significance in the way of news for the ” area where YOU are”…unless you are a political masochist eager to be talked down to by people you did NOT elect via a majority in the ” area where YOU are” AND other random non entities with their random, unwanted , misinformed and non honest opinions on subjects they are ignorant of e.g. Scotland …..

    However here goes another letter….with different request to them….

    Dear BBC……Why so many programmes on your channel that talks down to Scotland…..just cut to the chase and just make some programmes where the title coincides with the current political debate you normally allow on your channel in respect to all things Scottish related…..where may I suggest titles such as 1. Scotland is Sh*te….2. SNPBAD…and another programme with Tory MP’s from English constituencies where title of programme is 3. ‘We’re in Charge so shut up you Sweaty Jocks’

    I trust you will at least consider the above as all of this beating around the bush with Pro Unionist politicians and individuals and their lame and misinformed arguments about all things Scottish is becoming wearing…..and tedious…and fake….and obviously too Pro Unionist.

    Yours SINcerely

    Baroness Sepra Tist of the Nation soon to be separated from YOUR UK.

    ps. Sorry your team was beaten by Hungary the other night…..never mind I think in your team’s next game they will beat Thirsty , which is next to Hungry…sorry Hungary….

    I am trying to joke fellow Duggers….actually feel quite upbeat as tis NOT really us that have the HUGE uphill struggle but THEY …when one considers the disadvantages currently linked with THEIR UK….a UK most definitely NOT OKAY…….BITTER Together is not a winner for them which is what they want to present to us within THEIR UK……worse still IS STRANGER Together …as surely WOULD be strange for anyone in Scotland to want to stay a part of their UK as is and as will be in foreseeable LONG future……aka CR*P.

    Has Anas Sarwar done a Baroness yet aka a Flip Flop now that HQ is the new addition to the Brexit political family…..Anas says he and his party WILL make Brexit work….for the few not the many and definitely NOT for Scotland and all who live here….as if.

    Now is the TIME to be bold, confident and proud…..as to be the opposite is what they seek us to be……and when have we EVER done that …..and why the Hell should we……our cause is just and honest…..theirs is THE opposite.

    Have a nice evening everyone

    🙂

  21. Dr Jim says:

    More rumours leaking out of Westminster by the minute, this one concerns Scottish Independence and how Boris Johnson (if still in power) is going to either do nothing about preventing the referendum by trying to ignore the result or take the nuclear option of Spanish style intervention in the voting process itself as he fears the outrage of the result of a winning English court battle forcing Scotland by law to be imprisoned within what would be an exposed to the world sham union

    We know the Labour parties preferred option is Spanish style intervention, Labour MP Lisa Nandy has already stated this demanding the British army be sent in to break the SNP , this isn’t going to happen though, it would be insanity in extremis

    So the only option worth trying for the English government is the switch off and ignore anything’s happening at all in Scotland, they could try ordering the media to ignore it too but by doing that they’d actually be drawing more attention to the fact that they control the media, that also comes with high risk reflecting on England as a dictatorial state and not a democracy

    The sensible option that I’m sure will be advised by cooler heads will be a resolution by political negotiation that England won’t want to undertake but in the end Nicola Sturgeon and the watching world will force upon them

    My guess is the referendum will take place by the appointed date, it’s what happens after that becomes the question

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