It’s time for Scotland to define itself

Here we go again. The Scottish Government has confirmed that the Conservative Government at Westminster has not shared any of its controversial plans to introduce union busting strike breaking legislation with Holyrood. Not that anyone should be at all surprised by this, as the Tories never shared any of their Brexit plans with Holyrood either, and neither did they keep Holyrood informed about legislation with the potential to have a direct impact on the devolution settlement. So it’s not like they were about to break the habit of a lifetime and all of a sudden dig up David Cameron’s respect agenda from the deep dark pit in which it was buried immediately after the votes of the last independence referendum were counted.

It was always obvious that the Conservatives were going to go after the Trades Unions, despite the fact that after decades of Tory restrictions on the unions they are but a shadow of their former selves, the unions still represent one of the last institutions in the UK which the Conservatives do not influence or control and which is fundamentally opposed to the robber baron philosophy of the Westminster government.

The Conservatives have systematically undermined and attacked every institution in the UK which has an alternative legitimacy to Westminster or which is capable of holding the Conservative British Government to account. They engineered Brexit in order to ensure that the exercise of their power at Westminster would not be restricted in any way by the UK’s obligations as a member of the EU. And then once they had achieved a Leave vote in the EU referendum on the basis of outright lies and deceit, they trashed all the promises and reassurances that they had given prior to and during that referendum campaign and took the UK out of the Single Market and the Customs Union despite denouncing as “scaremongering” the warnings of remain campaigners that they were going to do so.

The new proposals to eviscerate the unions will make it legal for employers to hire untrained agency staff to cover for striking workers. The legislation will also penalise workers who have gone on strike by prohibiting them from working overtime in order to make up back pay which was lost during the industrial action.

Meanwhile, having taken yet another step towards neutering domestic opposition to Conservative rule, the UK continues its descent into rogue state territory as the British Government continues with its plans to deport asylum seekers on a one way ticket to Rwanda, a policy which has been denounced as illegal. In a recent court case which tried – and failed – to halt the deportations it was revealed that the UN’s refugee agency had twice warned the Home Office that the policy was unlawful. Gillian Triggs, assistant secretary-general at the United Nations refugee agency, and former dean of the Sydney Law School, Australia’s most prestigious law school, described the scheme as an “egregious breach of international and refugee law.”

Asked about comparisons between the Home Office’s Rwanda plan and Australia’s controversial policy of “off-shoring” asylum applications, Ms Triggs told the BBC : “Just as the Australian policy is an egregious breach of international law and refugee law and human rights law, so too is this proposal by the United Kingdom government.”

The Australian policy which saw asylum seekers and refugees arriving by boat sent to detention centres in Papua New Guinea and Nauru was widely condemned for its cruelty and inhumanity. Refugees were housed in substandard conditions in internment camps where there were widespread reports of abusive behaviour while their asylum claims were processed. However the UK policy is far far worse. At least the Australians permitted asylum seekers entry to Australia once their claims were judged to be genuine. However the British scheme will see successful asylum seekers being given asylum in Rwanda, a repressive dictatorship where corruption is rife and which not so long ago experience a horrific genocide. The Conservatives want the UK to wash its hands of all responsibility for desperate refugees who are seeking asylum in the UK. Even Prince Charles has denounced the policy as “appalling” and you know that something must be pretty bad indeed when you find yourself agreeing with Prince Charles.

As if that wasn’t enough to trash what was left of the UK’s tattered international reputation, on Monday the Johnson regime published plans to unilaterally change the Northern Irish protocol which underpinned the “oven ready” Brexit deal which Johnson negotiated with the EU. Johnson has claimed that the changes he wants to make are “a trivial set of adjustments” and told LBC radio that they are “not a big deal” despite the fact that it’s a clear breach of international law. Well he would say that wouldn’t he. He doesn’t think breaking domestic law is such a big deal either.

Breaking international law “isn’t a big deal” says Johnson, that’s the sort of sentiment that Vladimir Putin could enthusiastically get behind. Unsurprisingly this is not the opinion of the Irish Government. The Taoiseach Micheál Martin said today, “Announcing the unilateral breach of an international agreement is pretty serious stuff.”

Indeed. After all, if the changes Johnson is making are really trivial adjustments and not a big deal, then why is he making them in the first place? If they are not significant the UK could just suck them up instead of alienating the Irish Government, angering Brussels and risking a trade war with the EU in the middle of a cost of living crisis and when the UK is already forecast to have the lowest economic growth of any G20 country except Russia, whose economy has been battered by the international sanctions imposed upon the Putin regime following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

The fact that Johnson is now ripping up a key part of the Brexit deal that he himself negotiated and signed exposes the lies that he told in order to secure his victory in the December 2019 General Election. The rabble-rousing over Brexit is a lurch to the right designed to shore up support for a weakened prime minister. Scotland didn’t vote for Brexit and has not voted for the Tories since the 1950s but Scotland must endure the full effects of Johnson’s lies and deceit and the authoritarian British nationalism of the modern Conservative party.  Scotland does not consent to the arrogant British nationalist exceptionalist politics of the Tories, and is only informed after the event, but in the eyes of the international community as a part of the UK, Scotland is also a party to Johnson’s law breaking and contempt.

This is a nasty red white and blue brush that Scotland too is tarred with. As long as we remain a part of this so-called union, Scotland’s international standing and reputation is being rubbished too. It doesn’t have to be like this, but if Scotland doesn’t choose independence in order to define itself and what it stands for, Boris Johnson will define Scotland to the world for us. The First Minister’s announcement on Monday that the second independence referendum campaign launches tomorrow with the publication of the first in a series of papers setting out a new prospectus for independence could not be more timely. It’s time for Scotland to define itself.

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73 comments on “It’s time for Scotland to define itself

  1. Hamish100 says:


    Agree with all your sentiments. NI has a better deal than Scotland following Brexit putting us at a disadvantage. The tories need the DUP than the tories in Scotland.

    We have the worst of all worlds. Our country dictated too by an a American born little englander and a DUP loyalist.

    The FM is just off the tele confirming the launch of Independence referendum 2.

    This time we must say YES

    • William Davison says:

      So Micheal Martin is upset about Johnson’s supposed breach of an international agreement. That would be the same Micheal Martin who, along with the EU, had no qualms about demolishing that other international agreement, the Good Friday Agreement, in order to put the Protocol in place in the first instance. What a bunch of hypocrites, you reap what you sow. You break international law, then have the gall to complain when somebody else allegedly does the same.

      • Bob Lamont says:

        And on next week’s episode of the Twilight Zone…

      • weegingerdug says:

        Micheal Martin only became taoiseach in June 2020, which was long after the protocol was signed as a part of the Brexit deal Johnson negotiated. It was only necessary in the first place because Johnson and the Tories insisted on taking the UK out of the Single Market and Customs Union despite their promises prior to the EU referendum that they weren’t going to do so. It was Johnson and the Tories along with Satan’s little helpers the DUP who were the ones with no qualms about demolishing the Good Friday Agreement.

        But you do you, William dear.

      • Hamish100 says:

        It’s the tories and the DUP that will break up the so called previous union. Ironic or what?
        Brexit means Brexit —which is what Brexit exactly, Johnson tories and DUP ignored the NI vote to remain in the EU and Scotland too. Yes to Indy2🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

      • JP58 says:

        The basis of GFA was no hard border between NI & Republic of Ireland. It was painstakingly difficult to achieve for a very good reason – agreement was always difficult in NI after all the violence.
        Being out of Single Market requires a border between UK & EU.
        Therefore being out of Single Market was incompatible with GFA unless you put border in Irish Sea which was always going to upset DUP.
        NI therefore,not unsurprisingly, voted to Remain in UK.
        It was obvious as the nose on my face in 2016 that a hard Brexit would be incompatible with GFA and destabilise NI and it is obvious now.
        It is that simple.
        NI Protocol (essentially a border in Irish Sea which he denied at time)was Johnson’s cynical ploy to get Brexit done and win 2019 election. It has backfired as his lies are unraveling and he has upset DUP (who disliked GFA) & ERG as NI is prospering in comparison to UK and showing Brexit up for the economic disaster it is actually is.
        There are only 2 solutions- EU abandons border to UK for Single Market – why should they when UK are country that has left the EU or UK rejoins Single Market (which would lead to Johnson losing his job)
        The UK government is using NI for its own political ends. Then again it has a long history of mucking Ireland about. It is also managed to make Sinn Fein appear reasonable & tolerant (words I did not think I would ever write!).

        • grizebard says:

          Well said.

          Ironic though, if all too predictable, that the collateral damage from Brexit would register fastest in Ireland whilst elsewhere in the UK too many (as with Covid) are still desperately trying to pretend that it doesn’t exist. The NI protocol was as “oven ready” as a walking, clucking hen. One which is now coming home to roost.

  2. Dr Jim says:

    Ironically amusing that the UK government in a display of faux outrage on behalf of the public is about to try to do to public service workers what P&O ferries did to their workers

  3. davetewart says:

    Question for the blond buffoon.
    Just were is the East-West border between Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    The truss has just said we’re changing the rules to suit the EU and protect their single market.
    There you have it from truss, we just tell them that we are protecting them by just using our rules..

  4. Alex Clark says:

    I doubt even the Tories will find many train drivers among available agency staff, I doubt they’ll find many people at all for any job who are willing to work as strike breakers since there are supposedly more vacancies than people to fill them.

    So who is it they expect would be willing to be called a scab when there’s apparently a lot easier ways of earning enough to put bread on the table without having to cross a picket line? This is just another deluded Tory soundbite that has zero substance when looked at closely.

  5. Alex Clark says:

    They’re going to be right up shit creek if the Nurses, lorry drivers, or airport staff go on strike hahaha

  6. Alex Clark says:

    The Tories have reached another “new low” according to Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney. We reach a “new low” for the Tories every other week.

  7. bringiton says:

    The English establishment is not interested in sharing power with anyone and that has been the case forever.
    The only laws they observe are of their own making and even then,only when it suits their purposes.
    Our FM made it crytal clear today that there is no point in trying to reach agreement with an establishment which traduces all democratic norms so that is going to get interesting.
    Wouldn’t put it it past these creatures to declare Scotland a fascist state and send their military across the border to preserve Greater England’s “Democracy”,aka Tory rule.

    • Dr Jim says:

      There’s one thing that is united and it’s the united front of Scotland Ireland Northern Ireland the EU and the United States of America about to be stuck in the faces of Westminsters lawbreakers
      Englands wee UK big GOB-ernment is about to be surrounded and outflanked by a superior force

    • bringiton, their military are already across the border. As I oft assert, we are a militarily occupied colony of England.
      C an one of our Duggers friends who specialise in all things bellicose please provide figures and locations of army naval and air personnel posted Up Here on tours of duty from their bases in England?
      The gunboats are already on the Clyde, bringiton.

  8. Hamish100 says:

    Putin has learnt a lot from England’s history.

  9. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Independence for Scotland is not, as Unionists claim, an OBSESSION but clearly a NECESSITY all things considered……

    A succession of disastrous decisions and policies via the Tory government has also made the need for independence an URGENCY for Scotland…..

    The fact that so many of these disastrous decisions and policies by the Tory government impact us in Scotland yet neither we nor our government has any input or power to change or stop them is evidence enough that this is NOT a Union but instead a dictatorship run by despicable self serving career politicians……who serve NOT the people who elected them BUT serve only for their own interest and benefit and also very much for those who fund them.

    I wonder how many MORE scandals , law breaking and awful decisions will it take before MORE people realise in Scotland that THIS that we have NOW is NOT what WE were PROMISED in 2014 by politicians from ALL Unionist political parties……that in itself is justification for another Indy Ref…to say otherwise is for the birds or to even dare declare ….Oh but Labour when they are in power it will be different…will it though ?…How ?….Also if by some remote chance they, Labour, do win the next *General Election*…how long will they be in power ?…..As in what if in the subsequent GE the Tories regain power which will leave us, in Scotland, back to square one and also who then will be their new Tory leader…someone worse that Johnson ?…we then are back in the cycle of neverending instability, bad policies and I suspect then in a position where some bill will be passed that states we, Scotland, CANNOT hold another Referendum …either at all or until many years has lapsed….God knows what will happen to our parliament also.

    Delaying the inevitable will only prolong the pain…..indeed avoiding it and choosing to stay in the Union will also very much intensify the pain…..for MORE than a generation.

    If Now is NOT the Time…then one wonders what will those who are still ‘undecided’ waiting for and what is it that they expect to happen that they think will dramatically improve their lives by staying a part of a NON Union…….a NON Union that imposes so many negatives upon all of our lives while denying us every opportunity to fight against all of the cruel impositions they impose upon us.

    I mean the NATIONAL news is telling everyone what is going on so it is not now just confined to social media… I am puzzled at so many still being undecided and reticent to take the plunge and see that NOW is THE TIME to vote for independence……the political stars could NOT be more aligned in our favour……perhaps though MORE people in Scotland are ready to decide in favour of Independence than polls suggest which all things considered seems a logical conclusion to assume……the alternative would certainly be more than puzzling indeed it would seem almost verging on something OBSESSIVE to STILL want to STAY a part of their UK would it not…especially NOW !

    The DUP’s Jeremy Donaldson stated that compromise was needed on the NI protocol…..NOT from his side or the Tory UK government but from the EU……he speaks only for ONE part of the population within NI as opposed to ALL people who live there…..he states this only to maintain the (non) Union which for him is more important than all of the lives of all the people who live and work in NI …..and who currently are benefitting from STILL being a part of the EU single market…..but his OBSESSION with the Union will always take precedence over what is best for ALL the people from all sides of the political divide that exists in NI……Fact…obvs.

    It appears one is defined as obsessive ONLY if one is in favour of independence while rejecting the Union…..but alternatively one can only be defined as passionate and patriotic when one is in favour of the Union while rejecting independence….as dictated by Unionists….obvs…..fairness , logic and equality is not their strong points when they are faced with those they consider as being OTHERS.

    Hence Union Uber Alles was born to classify many people’s warped allegiance to a non existent Union that only seems evident to those who worship it’s existence yet somehow fail to see it does not actually EXIST for some within THEIR (non) Union and also very much including those politicians who are so desperate to sustain it in order to personally GAIN from it’s maintained existence….follow the money and power that the (non) Union generates for SOME but not for OTHERS…..always.

    So bloody drained….with it ALL…….

    *( Re above on next GE hopefully by that time we will be in the process of LEAVING via deciding in 2023 to vote for independence )*…

  10. Dr Jim says:

    England has an obsession with ownership of territory that’s not theirs, if they didn’t they wouldn’t have had so many countries removing themselves from their obsessional need to control

    British Empire Great Britain Commonwealth United Kingdom, England even creates new designations as rewards to itself for interfering in the cultures and countries of others, they write poetry congratulating themselves upon their narcissistic grandeur like “Everywhere an Englishman sets his foot will be forever England” They write grand majestic music to themselves and invent congratulatory celebrations in order to perform it, They pretend to be a democracy yet retain the imposter trappings of monarchy in self glorification

    England is a just one big wankathon pleasuring themselves at their own reflection

  11. yesindyref2 says:

    I find it strange that Donald Cameron of the Scottish Conservatives, and Sarah Boyack of Scottish Labour, amongst others, have a constitutional obsession with Westminster rule and going down on a sinking ship.

  12. yesindyref2 says:

    I somehow managed to refind this while randomly scouring the wild web, seems to be no other source of this paper any more (I saved it now):

    Click to access SecuringTheNation.pdf

    This was originally on Scottish Global Forum, which seems to be defunct, like scer, and the web address taken over by some other thing. But an idea about half the background is this:

    I think this is a paper I thought was very good, as Parrott (the other half) was in the Balkans when they were setting up their defences. I think I found it after the Ref, oh well. found it again the now!

  13. yesindyref2 says:

    So, so far

    McKenna seems to think Harvie is divisive but forgot to look in his mirror first, Riddoch isn’t certain it’s for real, Kane wants to lose the Indy Ref before it’s even started, and Hassan wants to set up forums and talk about what to talk about for a few years.

    Stuart Cosgrove kept his message simple on what the papers will have to achieve: “Remove doubt about pensions.”

    and WGD on theme and on topic “It’s time for Scotland to define itself.”.

    Indeed to the last two, thank goodness for positivity.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Riddoch on radio this morning and seemed positive to me. See you all at 11am

    • Dr Jim says:

      *Top voices* the National calls them, but of course they’re not are they?
      In regard to Independence everybody has one vote, each has one voice, every person an opinion
      the *Top voice* is the FM the person the majority of *voices* voted for to sort this out

      I personally have no regard for any of these people on the subject of Scotlands future, they’re so called journalists and commentators, creators and would be influencers of opinion amongst others
      and complainants of the minutiae at the expense of the always bigger picture

      I believe one of the things we don’t need in this campaign is this attitude that infested the last campaign , the Nth degree inquisitors, this bunch of tweed jacketed boring individuals scribbling away insisting we must scrutinise how many pennies to the £ or whatever currency that will be adopted in the future, will there be miles per hour or metres per second or how high or how low things nobody cared about until one of these folk brought it up, and all under the pretence that it must be done and promises of perfection finalised before the event

      England did Brexit over a lie on the side of a bus and they’re still fine with it, but here in Scotland where all folk really want to know is will Independence be worse or better, make that promise FM and we’re all golden and boom you’ve got my vote

      The minutiae of the political doings are happily left to the people we vote for to do that sort of thing because that’s their job, so every Scot should ask themselves this question

      Do you agree that Scotlands politicians can do a better job than England has ever done in the whole of our history and if the answer isn’t YES then you’re probably a racist sectarian Orange Lodge dependent waster of no use to the future of Scotland who brings their kids up to support a crown wearing bejeweled rich family in England who’s only purpose in life is to own Scotland and partonisingly wave at its inhabitants every once in a while for being thick enough to keep them in the position they’re used to

      • grizebard says:

        “the Nth degree inquisitors” – a tactic fostered and promoted by the BBC above all. Bury the essentials in a mountain of deliberately confusing dross.

        Since the BBC is, by its own charter, a declared Unionist promoter, it will be essential during the next referendum that it be excluded from making any supposedly “informative” programme on anything to do with independence. Nor screen any of those damned loaded studio panel programmes with a supposedly “representative” audience. Instead, “equal-time equal-access” should apply: each side should have the same time and resources to present their own take on the issues, unmediated by anyone as compromised as the usual mainstream broadcasters.

  14. Capella says:

    I heard some of Lesley Riddoch’s response on RScotland this morning. She sounded very positive to me too. Mind you, she was up against Pamela Nash so not hard to sound confident. Then Gerry Hassan was on with his word salad spiel which I think meant “yes but not yet”. If Gerry Hassan’s on the radio there must be a referendum coming up.

    Then it was the phone-in so I decided to tune out.

    • I’m about to go out and cut back the trees verging on the Southern policies of Campo Collatino.

      Like Tom Sawyer ‘s aversion to white washing his aunt’s fence, I have been looking for any excuse not to ‘get the job done’.

      Through the wonders of I Player, I have been dipping in to BBC Steam Radio Jockland, curious to know how quickly the MSM assault which I discussed on here would kick into gear on Day One of NS firing the starting gun..

      On GMS Gary and Laura, and Glenn, with Prof Sir John Curtice got the ball rolling.

      Gary and Glenn concluded that no matter what Sturgeon and the insurrectionists did, ‘Boris’ would just say No, and that would be an end of it.

      Indeed, Glenn ventured that, following ‘Boris’ prohibiting the colonial Upland from exercising its democratic right to hold a plebiscite, and the English Supreme Court subsequently upholding ‘Boris’ decision, Glenn was at a loss to know what the SNP could do next.
      How about an armed Uprising, Glenn?
      My hoe and secateurs are at hand to join the march to retake Edinburgh Castle.
      Or we take the matter up with the UN.

      (see what GC did there? The SNP are powerless, not the Scottish citizens.)

      Old Prof Curtice was dragged on, kicking the can further down the road.

      We are to wait for the next UK GE, hope that Labour and the SNP form a coalition Government, and as part of the deal, Starmer is forced to grant a S30 order….arrant nonsense from the Brit Pollster funded by the English Oligarchy, campaigning for Johnson and the Establishment from the Yoon Stockade that is Strathclyde Uni.

      Stephen Jardine manned the phone in from 9.00 am

      Gerry Hassan was first on the phone, flogging his next book and talking Alba rubbish.

      Then Andy McIver, Tory bag man, peddling more Home Rule and federalism.

      I gather Paul Sweeney, the 13 frigates BAE Labour Man would be phoning in later.

      Not so much a Phone In as a Farce In.

      I take it that these guys got fees paid from my licence money to present the not so balanced BBC opinion on Independence?

      There were members of the public..John from EK who boasted of being a regular caller, who voted YES (Aye,right) in 2014, but reprised the old once in a generation nonsense.

      A wee gentile frail lady from Edinburgh (one of Union Jack Murray’s constituents?) who said that I hate the English, and the SNP were incompetent, and she had relatives in England who were not foreig…you know the script.

      Jardine brought up ‘our biggest trading partners’, a hard border, ya de ya de ya…
      Another elderly caller declared that his UKstate pension would cease when we vote Yes…No ‘Yes But’ from Jardine to refute this lie…

      They’re going to interview Sturgeon later….That should be fun.
      But it has started.

      so thee first four hours of BBC Steqam Radio can be summarised thus: It doesn’t matter what the people of Scotland want, Boris will forbid it.
      Well done BBC Jockland…you’ll get your Christmas bonus and a wee drink from Muriel if you keep this up.

      Trees to trim.

  15. Capella says:

    The National columnists’ views on what the independence campaign papers have to do.

    Top Yes voices weigh in on First Minister Nicola Sturgeon’s independence paper

    TOP voices from the independence movement have weighed in ahead of a major moment for the indyref2 campaign – as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon today publishes the first in a series of key papers.

    The Building A New Scotland series will kick off in Edinburgh, with Scottish Greens co-leader and government minister Patrick Harvie alongside Sturgeon.

    We asked some of The National’s columnists to weigh in on a key question ahead of the unveiling of the “scene setter”: What will this series of papers on an independent Scotland need to do, in order to secure a Yes vote in indyref2?

    • Alex Clark says:

      Much of that was depressing to read, some people have lived with a feeling of negativity for so long now it’s proving difficult to shake off. Stuart Cosgrove and WGD the exceptions.

      • keaton says:

        After reading a few posts on here about how negative they were all being, it was quite surprising to see how positive the article itself was. I’m not sure what people could find to object to about Pat Kane’s contribution. Even Kevin McKenna seemed reasonably optimistic once he’d got the obligatory moan about the wokes out of the way.

  16. Capella says:

    I’ll post this unarchived as there are links to where you can watch the Indyref announcement live from Bute House at 11.00 am today.—watch-fms-independence-update-today/

  17. Hamish100 says:

    BBC having technical problems. BBC Sky Rwanda is more important

    Stv- joke channel.

  18. Alex Clark says:

    Yoons be raging, this gradual release of answers to the obvious questions on Independence has them wound right up.

  19. Albis says:

    So, following Nicola’s speech, the BBC cut off Patrick Harvie mid-speech in order to hand over to some journalist who proceeded to give her interpretation of what Nicola had just said. That right there shows why Scotland needs independence.

  20. davetewart says:

    Thankfully I don’t see much tv except when I visit my elder brother.
    You have it so right, stv is the joke station, they retransmit the Cornish local school football league in place of the local football matches.
    Last wee my brother managed to watch the Scottish game via the Irish station RTE who transmitted the game live.
    Just the same naming solution as the english political parties in Scotland it’s the English ITV in Scotland..
    My daughter , a teacher, finds it strange to hear primary One children speak with strange accents, mainly american, in the central belt.

    Brother does not watch or listen to EBC in Scotland or their radio station, propaganda he says, and he’s having a hard time losing his unionism but says he supports the SNP to get independence, he’ll vote for policies thereafter.

  21. Dr Jim says:

    The union media proactively put off today what they strive to avoid altogether
    The arrogance of the lack of Englands media coverage this AM by dismissing proper coverage of Scotlands democratically elected government announcing what is a momentous event should be yet another signal to voters of the importance placed on the lack of equality within this so called union

    Scotland does not want the so called UK government running our country and clearly said so in a democratic vote, Wales also rejects the status quo as they continuously vote Labour yet suffer Tory as selected by England, Northern Ireland just voted for change and they don’t even have any English political parties to vote for anyway but still are stuck with Englands choice of Tories governing them

    So three countries peoples of the so called union of four do not agree with the one country of Englands people yet still they control all four of us, so it’s not governance by democracy, it’s governance by population size of England which will always be greater thus nothing can ever change except some time possibly maybe in the future give or take a fair wind and with crossed fingers the English voter decides it’s time for a change, until that time ever never might come Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland are told to hang around and wait for that country to make its mind up but maybe it won’t, or will

    And there’s your problem *you’re not allowed* to have a mind of your own, because that’s decided by someone on Gogglebox who has ten times your voting power and insists the stars in the sky are different in America from what they are in England

  22. Alex Clark says:

    These so called journalists disgust me, just how is it possible that every single one of them is a Unionist peddling Westminsters garbage.

  23. yesindyref2 says:

    I hadf a look at the say read version:

    There will be different views about how to do this in an independent Scotland.

    Indeed. And that’s a strength for campaigning, not a weakness.

  24. Capella says:

    I watched it on the Scotgov twitter live stream so no BBC “interpretation” or interruption or deviation.

    I thought both Nicola and Patrick dealt very well with the journalists, especially the “gotchas” they tried to throw in. A very assured performance from both of them.
    Stand back now for the gales of unionist outrage.

  25. barpe says:

    Having just watched the Nicola/Patrick press conference, I think it was a good display, and having the other party leader there gave Nicola a break, and I reckon helped.
    Overall, I must say it does sound like we are on the way, again!

  26. Tam the Bam says:

    Tom Gordon and Simon Johnston (remember him?…..he of the #French gate smear …. Telegraph)
    sounded particularly wound -up.
    Lovely stuff!

  27. Hamish100 says:


    I know you aren’t up to it personally but the WGD is a great brand and maybe the tour of local areas could be picked up by colleagues you trust. We have about 14 months? To persuade a majority. YES INDEPENDENCE🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  28. Alex Clark says:

    I think it looks like the announcement to Parliament on the referendum Bill could be made by Nicola Sturgeon in the next two weeks. She said as much when asked if it would be before the recess which starts on 2nd July and lasts until September.

    She answered,

    “your question I think, before the summer recess, em, I said very soon, I’m not sure I would describe September as very soon, so you can draw your own conclusions from that.”

    You can find the video about 47:35 in.

  29. yesindyref2 says:

    Just to remind some people somewhere else of the timetable of the first Indy Ref.

    15 October 2012, the Edinburgh Agreement negotiated between Nicola Sturgeon and Michael Moore, was signed at St Andrew’s House.

    21 March 2013 – 5 months later – Alex Salmond announces the date of the Independence Referendum as 18th September 2014.

    I want to know the date as much as anyone, whether for instance it will be Thursday 21st September 2023. But to complain that Sturgeon hasn’t announced the date when he himself didn’t announce it until FIVE MONTHS AFTER the Edinburgh Agreement is crass dishonest cupidity.

    The S30 has to be sought, and after that the date announced, or if the S30 is refused, then the date announced. The date can not be announced before the S30 has been formally requested and agreed or denied. Any statesman, diplomat or negotiator would know that.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      This is how the Wormtongues of this world work their mischief:

      Sturgeon said the same on Jan 2020 when she said there would be no referendum due to Johnstons refusal of a sec 30 as it would be an illegal referendum (she actually also used the words wildcat referendum).

      No she didn’t, she said there would be no illegal referendum. Anyone with even one single functioning brain cell would know the difference, unless they’re thick as two short planks – or deliberately misrepresenting people, spreading disinformation and lies.

      Here’s what Sturgeon actually did say:

      “I will set out my views on this. I’ve been very clear about the need for any process on independence to be legal and that is my position.

      It’s time the YES movement told these liars where to get off. There’s a few around, btl on the Herald and even the National (and elsewhere).

    • Dr Jim says:

      The longer we don’t know the date, the longer they don’t know the date, so they can’t schedule their anti Independence performance shows and book their anti Independence *experts* on their timescale, this time they’re the ones who have to wait for the FMs timetable and not the other way round like last time when the BBC were allowed to completely take over the whole procedure and schedule events to suit them

      In England the media run around after Boris Johnson for statements and he decides when that’ll be, in Scotland the media have no respect for the office of FM or our parliament and think they can behave as they like

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Well, the draft Bill seems to include an amount of flexibility:

        (4) The date on which the poll at the referendum is to be held is [date to be decided by the next Scottish Parliament], unless before then regulations are made under subsection (6)
        (5) Subsection (6) applies if the Scottish Ministers consider

        (a) that it is impossible or impracticable for the poll at the referendum to be held on [date to be decided by the next Scottish Parliament], or
        (b) that it cannot be conducted properly if held on that date.

        (6) The Scottish Ministers may by regulations appoint a later date as the date on which the poll at the referendum is to be held.

        Click to access scottish-independence-referendum-bill-draft-publication.pdf

        • James says:

          The timing of a referendum is relatively easy to guess.

          Based on the bill starting its progress in September with no challenge from UK Gov.

          Pass Parliamentary stages and gain Royal Consent 4-6 weeks
          Electoral Commission to assess and report back on the question – they have previously said they would expect this to take three months.
          Campain period – 3 months.

          So the referendum could take place as early as late April next year.

          Based on the bill starting its progress in September with a challenge from UK Gov
          Pass Parliamentary stages and gain Royal Consent 4-6 weeks
          Time the UK Gov has to decide if to challenge or not – 4 weeks
          Time is taken for Supreme Court to hear the case (based on the challenge last year 6 months)
          Electoral Commission to assess and report back on the question – they have previously said they would expect this to take three months.
          Campain period – 3 months

          So the referendum could happen in late Autumn. Especially if the supreme court takes less time to hear the case.

          • Alex Clark says:

            You’re assuming that any Supreme Court hearing will find in Scotland’s favour of course.

            • James says:

              Yes, that went without saying – if it was found against then the whole process would stop!

              Of course it may well be that the Supreme court challenge may come first. For a Bill to be introduced the speaker has to be satisfied that it is with the Parliaments’ powers (based one would assume on legal advice that she is privy to). If she is not then the Supreme court would have to rule in favour before the passage of the bill can start.

    • grizebard says:

      Actually, re timing, any ordinary person with a grain of sense would know that. Those that apparently don’t are either players of devious mind games or unfortunates self-poisoned by an overdose of zeal.

  30. grizebard says:

    News on the English Home Service just now declares that a referendum can’t possibly happen without Boris’ say-so, the exact same posturing beloved of Glenn Campbell. (An odd sort of news broadcaster that seems to think that by keeping on saying something, that will make it come true. They’ll likely still be trying that the day before it happens.) Nicola no longer gets a voice at 2PM but Zahawi is back telling us that he knows what’s best for us and never mind all those pesky elections we keep having that say otherwise. Then follow-up with a wee mention of Patrick Grady.

    What a load of increasingly-desperate bluffers. It’s them who have nowhere to go, not us.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      All these rissoles can’t admit they got it wrong wrong and once more for luck, WRONG. So they’re still howling at the moon. OwOOOOOOO

  31. Dr Jim says:

    A spokesman for the UK government said Nicola Sturgeon should be concentrating on the war in Ukraine and the cost of living crisis

    Where to begin on Nicola Sturgeons responsibility for this pile of UK of E doggy doo

    • jfngw says:

      The government of ultimate double speak, you should not be wanting independence whilst another country is fighting for its independence. It’s almost as pathetic as the condemnation of Russia breaking international law as they break international law.

      Maybe they see themselves as some sort of exception. After all they all went to the elite schools and universities and gave us Boris Johnson as the pinnacle of those establishments achievements.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Inernational realations are reserved
      Defence is reserved
      Macroeconomics is reserved
      Quantitive Easing is reserved
      The grid is reserved
      Oil and gas exploration licences are reserved
      Corporation tax and capital allowances, are reserved

      WTF does the moronic UK Government spokesidiot thing Sturgeon should do? Yes, at least he got this one right – call an independence referendum and get the Hell out of Dodgy UK.

  32. jfngw says:

    I listened to all the journalist questions at the Scotgov briefing, all framed with more or less one of two premise, either how could Scotland survive without Westminster or you need England’s permission (they say the UK government but the UK government is more or less the English government, it is the only country where the Tories are a majority in the UK).

    Their 2014 ‘you will need a hard border’ because you are outside the EU has been turned on its head because you will now need it in the EU, it’s almost laughable.

    It looks pretty much they are going with the same narrative as 2014 despite all the evidence what a disaster for Scotland all their propaganda at the time was. Not one question had a positivity as its basis, none framed as to ask the benefits, they could all have come from unionist politicians.

  33. Dr Jim says:

    As predicted right on cue the usual suspects and the Tories little helpers the Alba party are already complaining the referendum won’t be the right kind of referendum so what’s the point in taking part in Nicola Sturgeons sham
    Remember these were the people who said a referendum would never happen because the FM was all sorts of unionist plants, a spy, a devolutionist and the list of derogatory adjectives goes on while they quote the current and last leader of their 2% band of miserables as the *expert who knows all* about referendums

    Well sorry once again to break this to these folks again but the only thing the former FM is an *expert* on is how not to conduct or win referendums, and Nicola Sturgeon was there at the time and she wasn’t deaf dumb or blind, so for those who genuinely support Scottish Independence isn’t it about time to give this nonsense a rest and for whatever reason chosen to dislike the elected FM get on board and begin a positive attitude, because everything you’ve been told by your leaders so far has turned out to be extremely far from being correct, that should tell you something about the people or person leading the miserables as they keep inventing different versions of how people should dislike the FM each time their previous invention is debunked

    You can take out a cheaper subscription to the Express or the Daily Mail for that kind of stuff

  34. Alex Clark says:

    Boris Johnson is incapable of articulating his opposition to a referendum without regurgitating mind numbing soundbites. His cupboard is bare and he has nothing to offer Scotland and is all out of ideas. The game is up and he knows it.

    • Golfnut says:

      Pity he didn’t feel the need to respect the will of the Scottish people when we voted to stay in in the EU. That aside the anti Indy locker is as empty as Boris’s head.

  35. Alex Clark says:

    Also noticeable is that the usual sections of the right wing media are now describing Nicola Sturgeon’s speech as evidence she is planning an “illegal referendum”.

    They too have no positive case for the Union having squandered all their anti-referendum ammunition and are scraping the bottom of the barrel in desperation for something, or anything. There is simply nothing left in the barrel so they do what they and Johnson always do.

    They LIE.

    • grizebard says:

      Well, it makes a change from “Boris just says no”, I suppose. Now they’re into “oh, sh*t, this might happen anyway” mode, scrabbling for a new negative angle. But if they actually paid even minimal attention to what Nicola made transparently clear (again) today, and had any professional ethics, they wouldn’t be in any doubt about what she wants and expects to get: a sound legal referendum. Anything else just won’t cut the mustard.

      How this will be achieved is partly by careful legal planning, at which she excels, and partly by bluff (wrongfooting UKGov, eg. in the light of all they’ve said about Ukraine’s right to exist). Where there’s a will, there’s a way. The will is very plain to all, and the way is sure to follow. Which is why the hacks are now desperate to re-frame their story.

  36. UncleBob says:

    Well, Nicola and Patrick have made my day, my week and my year. Brilliantly done. Can’t wait until the next instalments. Great way to do it. Small easily digestible chunks. Keep the thing alive for as long as necessary. I remember the wonderful feeling the night before the last Referendum in 2014. The hope and the joy and the thought of our freedom has returned to me today. Onwards.

  37. Hamish100 says:

    Fair boosted my morale listening to this guff.

    I really want independence. It is important to me. I no longer want a government I didn’t vote for imposed on my country or my family. Yes other things are important too but I won’t be dictated too by the liar Johnson and his cronies.
    I hope that was clear.

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