Putting Alister Jack’s gaslighting at a peep

Ever since the EU referendum and particularly since the Scottish elections in May, the Conservatives have been trying to gaslight Scotland into believing that certain truths which are deeply uncomfortable for the Tories are not in fact true. There problem is that despite the best efforts of a right wing press and a BBC which is desperate not to upset its Conservative masters who hold the key to the BBC’s continuing receipt of cash from the licence fee, the people of Scotland do not have memories as short as a goldfish.

The Conservatives want Scotland to believe that this country did not in fact vote to reject Brexit. You will regularly find frothing apologists for the Tories in the comments sections of the Herald and the, in this context ironically named, Scotsman, angrily assert that “we” didn’t vote to reject Brexit, as it was a UK-wide vote – so they claim that Scotland doesn’t matter. This stance is in itself an instance of another broken Tory promise, their claim prior to the 2014 referendum that Scotland is an equal partner in a family of nations. It was former Prime Minister Theresa May who claimed this, in her speech to the Conservative party conference in 2012 when the Conservatives were trying to marshal their arguments for the Scottish independence referendum which was coming down the line. May told the Conservative delegates: “I’m pleased to have this opportunity to talk to you about a future in which Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England continue to flourish side-by-side as equal partners. Different and proud to be so.”

That future of the so-called United Kingdom turned out to be as much of a fantasy as Narnia. Although we do have an evil queen in the shape of Priti Patel.

Not only is it evident that the British government does not view Scotland as an equal partner in a family of nations, the current Scotland Secretary Alister Jack does not even like to acknowledge that Scotland is a nation at all, preferring instead to talk about “regional” and “dialect” differences within what he regards as the single British nation of the United Kingdom. We’ve come a long way from May’s claims of the nations of the UK as equal partners to : “Scotland, you have no more significance than Lincolnshire.”

Ever since the May elections in Scotland the Conservatives, shamefully aided and abetted by the Labour party, have been trying to establish as an “alternative fact” the blatant lie that the people of Scotland did not elect a Scottish Parliament with a clear and unequivocal mandate for another independence referendum. You do not have to have a long memory to recall that the issue of another independence referendum dominated that election campaign and the voters of Scotland chose to elect a Scottish Parliament with the largest pro-independence majority ever. The Conservatives and Labour are now trying to pretend that the SNP does not have a mandate for another referendum because it narrowly failed to win an absolute majority in a broadly proportional voting system designed to make it exceptionally difficult for any single party to win an absolute majority. In effect they are trying to assert that Scottish Green MSPs don’t count, and had Alba succeeded in returning any MSPs, they’d be trying to discount those too.

Since it cannot be denied that pro-independence parties asking the electorate for a mandate for another independence referendum won the Holyrood election convincingly, and the combined forces of all the anti-independence MSPs together do not come close to blocking steps taken by Holyrood to facilitate another referendum, Alister Jack has now switched to a different stalling tactic, an appeal to opinion polling. In an interview on BBC Scotland’s Sunday Show, Jack repeated his claim that there needs to be consistent 60% support for another referendum before one is justified. Jack does not get to cherry pick which political issues are decided by opinion polls. We have elections for deciding important political issues, and the question of whether Scotland should have another independence referendum was definitively decided at the Holyrood election in May.

Jack should in any case be careful what he wishes for, if indeed we are to appeal to opinion polling in order to decide whether a government has a mandate, there have been large and consistent majorities against Brexit in Scottish opinion polls which have confirmed that the 60% plus of Scottish voters who voted against Brexit in 2016 was no flash in the pan. Perhaps the Scottish Government should tell Jack that it will agree to his 60% proviso for another independence referendum if the Conservatives return Scotland to the EU single market, the customs union, and restore the rights to work and settle throughout the EU that Scots lost due to the Conservatives’ hard Brexit.

In his latest pathetically transparent attempt at gaslighting, Jack is trying to claim that there have been no changes to the devolution settlement, arguing unconvincingly that the UK Government unilaterally giving itself powers to intervene directly in Scotland on devolved matters was “real devolution”.

He further tried to claim that the British Government had not taken any powers away from Holyrood, and therefore devolution was not being undermined. This is a specious and intellectually insulting argument, the sort of assertion that could only be made by an upper middle class patrician idiot who is used not to being challenged or contradicted by the peasants.

Prior to the Tories’ UK internal Market Act, Holyrood had the exclusive power to decide spending priorities on devolved matters within Scotland. Westminster has not stripped Holyrood of its powers to decide spending priorities on devolved issues, but it has given itself equivalent powers. That means Holyrood no longer has the exclusive power – which is a loss of power. Decisions made by Holyrood can now be by-passed by Westminster, that is an important loss of power for the Scottish Parliament. The decision of Holyrood to say – spend on improving the rail network instead of building a new road – can now be neutered by Westminster deciding that it’s going to build the road anyway.

Westminster doesn’t need to formally strip Holyrood of a power when it can simply neuter and by-pass the Scottish Parliament. There’s no need to strip Holyrood of a power that the Tories have subverted, and then Alister Jack and his gaslighting colleagues can continue to undermine, weaken, and subvert the devolution settlement and then pitch up for a cosy interview on the BBC and claim that they’ve not taken any powers away from Holyrood.

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118 comments on “Putting Alister Jack’s gaslighting at a peep

  1. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Great post Paul…..once again exposing lies and hypocrisy.

    You are indeed one of the shining lights in the midst of what is , for many of us, a very very dark tunnel indeed……I for one do not know what I would do without your posts on this blog…..self combust through rage and frustration !…….but you offer me and many like me a voice and an opportunity to express our opinions and indeed our anger and frustrations thus placate our inner rage at the injustice of it all ….when we have a voice we feel heard and that , in the current circumstances, is so important to many of us and gives us all hope that things will change for the better.

    I am so glad we have someone like you who both inspires and permits us to express our opinions on your blog….

    Thank you and God bless.

  2. ‘Cosy interview with the BBC’ indeed, Paul.
    Geissler on his sunday broadcast s the perect example. He ‘leads’ Red Blue and Yellow Tories, prodding them in the right direction, the conclusion always reached,that our Betters Know Better.
    With the £200,00 a year Linesman Dros, Geissler ostensibly asked all the testing questions, but get theusual trite outrageously stupid answers, but then moves on to the next, obviously well rehearsed Q&A whitewash.
    On Offard, the £150,000 Blue Tory donor, for example, Geissler blurts out, ‘cash for peerages?’ then Dross with his ‘I’m ready for this’ smirk pooh ppohs the buying honours swipe, the twitters on about the English bicameral system of government, and Geissler leaves it there.

    With Alister Glenalmond educated English Gent Jack, Geissler just lets this jumped up buffoon away with asserting that Holyrood has lost none of its powers following Brexit.
    Geissler, we assume, and sincerely hope since we are paying him quite a wedge of our money to front a ‘political’ programme, is aware of the UKIM bill, and the Brexit power grab.

    Just in case Geissler has been asleep for the past five years I list the areas that Union Jack’s fascist regime has taken from Scotland since Brexit.
    (Paul, feel free to delete this list)
    1. Agricultural Support
    2. Agriculture – Fertiliser Regulations
    3. Agriculture – GMO Marketing & Cultivation
    4. Agriculture – Organic Farming
    5. Agriculture – Zootech
    6. Animal Health and Traceability
    7. Animal Welfare
    8. Aviation Noise Management at Airports
    9. Blood Safety and Quality
    10. Carbon Capture & Storage
    11. Chemicals regulation (including pesticides)
    12. Civil judicial co-operation – jurisdiction and recognition & enforcement of judgments in civil & commercial matters (including B1 rules and related EU conventions)
    13. Civil judicial co-operation – jurisdiction and recognition & enforcement of judgments instruments in family law (including BIIa, Maintenance and civil protection orders)
    14. Civil judicial cooperation on service of documents and taking of evidence
    15. Criminal offences minimum standards measures – Combating Child Sexual Exploitation Directive
    16. Control of major accident hazards
    17. Cross border mediation
    18. Data sharing – (EU fingerprint database (EuroDac)
    19. Data sharing – European Criminal Records Information System (ECRIS)
    20. Data sharing – False and Authentic Documents Online (FADO)
    21. Data sharing – passenger name records
    22. Data sharing – Prüm framework
    23. Data sharing – Schengen Information System (SIS II)
    24. Efficiency in energy use
    25. Elements of Reciprocal Healthcare
    26. Elements of the Network and Information Security (NIS) Directive
    27. Elements of Tobacco Regulation
    28. Energy Performance of Buildings Directive
    29. Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) Directive
    30. Environmental law concerning energy planning consents
    31. Environmental law concerning offshore oil & gas installations within territorial waters
    32. Environmental quality – Air Quality
    33. Environmental quality – Chemicals
    34. Environmental quality – Flood Risk Management
    35. Environmental quality – International timber trade (EUTR and FLEGT)
    36. Environmental quality – Marine environment
    37. Environmental quality – Natural Environment and Biodiversity
    38. Environmental quality – Ozone depleting substances and F-gases
    39. Environmental quality – Pesticides
    40. Environmental quality – Spatial Data Infrastructure Standards
    41. Environmental quality – Waste Packaging & Product Regulations
    42. Environmental quality – Waste Producer Responsibility Regulations
    43. Environmental quality – Water Quality
    44. Environmental quality – Water Resources
    45. Environmental quality – Biodiversity – access and benefit sharing of genetic resources
    46. Equal Treatment Legislation
    47. EU agencies – EU-LISA
    48. EU agencies – Eurojust
    49. EU agencies – Europol
    50. EU Social Security Coordination
    51. Fisheries Management & Support
    52. Food and Feed Law
    53. Food Compositional Standards
    54. Food Geographical Indications (Protected Food Names)
    55. Food Labelling
    56. Forestry (domestic)
    57. Free movement of healthcare (the right for EEA citizens to have their elective procedure in another member state)
    58. Genetically modified micro-organisms contained use
    59. Good laboratory practice
    60. Harbours
    61. Hazardous Substances Planning
    62. Heat metering and billing information
    63. High Efficiency Cogeneration
    64. Implementation of EU Emissions Trading System
    65. Ionising radiation
    66. Land use
    67. Late payment (commercial transactions)
    68. Legal aid in cross-border cases
    69. Migrant Access to benefits
    70. Minimum standards -housing & care: regulation of the use of animals
    71. Minimum standards legislation – child sexual exploitation
    72. Minimum standards legislation – cybercrime
    73. Minimum standards legislation – football disorder
    74. Minimum standards legislation – human trafficking
    75. Mutual recognition of professional qualifications
    76. Mutual recognition of criminal court judgments measures & cross border cooperation – European Protection Order, Prisoner Transfer Framework Directive, European Supervision Directive, Compensation to Crime Victims Directive
    77. Nutrition health claims, composition and labelling
    78. Onshore hydrocarbons licensing
    79. Organs
    80. Plant Health, Seeds and Propagating Material
    81. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – Asset Recovery Offices
    82. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – European Investigation Order
    83. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – Joint Action on Organised Crime
    84. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – Joint investigation teams
    85. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – mutual legal assistance
    86. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – mutual recognition of asset freezing orders
    87. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – mutual recognition of confiscation orders
    88. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – Schengen Article 40
    89. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – Swedish initiative
    90. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – European judicial network
    91. Practical cooperation in law enforcement – implementation of European Arrest Warrant
    92. Procedural rights (criminal cases) – minimum standards measures
    93. Provision of legal services
    94. Provision in the 1995 Data Protection Directive (soon to be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation) that allows for more than one supervisory authority in each member state
    95. Public sector procurement
    96. Public health (serious cross-border threats to health)
    97. Radioactive Source Notifications – Trans-frontier shipments
    98. Radioactive waste treatment and disposal
    99. Rail franchising rules
    100. Rail markets and operator licensing
    101. Recognition of insolvency proceedings in EU Member States
    102. Renewable Energy Directive
    103. Rules on applicable law in civil & commercial cross border claims
    104. Sentencing – taking convictions into account
    105. State Aid
    106. Statistics
    107. Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA) Directive
    108. Tissues and cells
    109. Uniform fast-track procedures for certain civil and commercial claims (uncontested debts, small claims)
    110. Victims rights measures (criminal cases)
    111. Voting rights and candidacy rules for EU citizens in local government elections
    Geissler lets them away with it.
    Similarly the nonsense about ‘freedom of choice’ to reduce taxes so that people can fly from Southampton to Inverness goes unchallenged by Geissler…
    Old Watsonian Boy in conversation with an Old Glenalmond Boy.
    Nice game played slow.
    I’ll stop now.

    • P Harvey says:

      Well done Jack in keeping & sharing this list
      Shocking to see how much they have taken back
      Indy 2 ASAP

      Excellent post Paul

    • ArtyHetty says:

      Great article thanks Paul. Little Drossie, his masters say jump he says how high. Whenever DRoss is nowhere to be seen, he is probably in training in what to say, and how to say it to the BBC and STV and other British Nationalists’ media.

      Jack C, thanks too for the list of powers removed from Scotland, is there a list online to share? Maybe SNP website? I’ll have a look. I wonder if it means Scotland will be forced to allow GM re, their crops?
      Very scary indeed.

  3. Stewartbfromperth says:

    Well said Not My Real Name – your blogs are an inspiration Paul .I heard Jack spouting his utter nonsense . He is just one of the many mendacious and nefarious individuals we are up against in our fight for self determination .When given the opportunity Scot Gov Ministers must be forceful and denounce these lies and call them out for the cretins that they are .While we all strive to be respectful we have to accept that we are dealing with people who have a massive sense of self entitlement and given the opportunity will just see respect as a sign of weakness .
    Kid gloves have to come off.

  4. Arthur Thomson says:

    That is a superb piece of writing and analysis Paul. I have always thought you to be a good writer and enjoyed your work. However, i think that recently your writing has been even better than ever before. It has a real cutting edge to it – maybe as a result of your recent difficult life experiences – whilst continuing to be light of touch and humorous. That isn’t a critique, it’s just how I am experiencing it.

    I particularly like your clarification that the British and their media are actively seeking to ” subvert ” and ” neuter ” the Scottish Government. That is exactly their methodology and we all need to spread that message as far as we can. Scotland has a highly educated electorate who, collectively, are perfectly capable of understanding the significance of these forms of attack when their attention is drawn to them. They are also sufficiently civilised to react against people who are deliberately setting out to deceive and undermine them.

  5. Dr Jim says:

    Ah if only the world were run by newspaper opinion polls we wouldn’t have to have governments elections political parties representatives or even really opinions at all because the press could sort it all out between themselves with just a single dictator like figure staring benignly down at us from city centre screens and we could all look up to him/her/it as *the great leader* there to guide us to a new and brighter tomorrow

    I’ll be dead when it comes but I’m sure I won’t miss it

    Good faith negotiation talks dialogue earnest intentions common goal honesty, these are all words the English government refuse to recognise in its dealings with any other country in the world let alone the forlorn hope they will do so with Scotland, the only time England negotiates is when it’s threatened with financial pressure or the thing that none of us must mention

    England must be threatened with some kind of suffering inconvenient hardship or difficulty that transmits to the population of that country and makes the populace afraid uncomfortable uneasy nervous which panics their government into worrying about losing votes from the only country in the British isles that counts to them, England, then negotiations can proceed albeit in bad faith but some faith is better than none as a place to start

    I’m totally and completely fed up with English politicians and British media threatening me and my country, it’s our turn now

    • I take no comfort in the knowledge that, when Andy Burnham, Red Tory spawn of Blair and Brown, King of Manchester, does a Number Two and flushes it away into the NW privatised Water and Sewage system, his untreated waste will finally find its way in to the Solway Firth, because Jack, Lamont and Mundell voted to allow private sewage companies to pollute our waters , because it is cheaper to pay the fines, than treat the sewage.
      Good old ‘capitalism and greed’ at work.

      The good folk on the Isle of Whithorn will have a je ne sais quoi ingredient added to their world famous Whithorn Lobsters, courtesy of the Colonial Government headed by Jack and Lord Offord, that well know Scotch London Party Donator, and unelected Overlord of the Golden Goose Colony to The North..

      They are literally sh1tting on us now.

    • grizebard says:

      First things first. For the moment, we must remain resolute in resisting the current Tory bluff that they can prevent IR2. The goalposts have been moved around so much that they are in danger of spontaneously disintegrating. Refuse to be gaslighted about this just as we should reject all their other ploys. They are desperately afraid of the consequences of their own actions and it shows. So, come the much-needed showdown, we must use the opportunity to show everyone exactly how exploited and gaslighted they have been. Heralding a way to a promised land is all well and good, albeit challenging to make totally convincing, but to win we also have to make damn sure that people are fully aware of the fools’ bargain – the refastening of our chains – that the Union is offering. Which, from the disaster of Brexit on down, is actually very easy to demonstrate.

  6. Bob Lamont says:

    I can’t recall which poster did so, but it was in the last 2 weeks, which simply listed the changed parameters and variations since Thatcher’s era when a simple majority of MPs from Scotland was sufficient justification for a referendum, to the present, the “moving goalposts” issue.
    SS (I think) also posted the UK’s position re the Falkland’s and HMG’s approach to sovereignty and independence, again a Thatcher era position.

    Alister Jack is evidently a rich but pretentious fool, but with Conservatives having raised Thatcher to the level of deity, are we missing a trick here ?

    These should be slammed into Jack every time he opines. What’s he going to say ? Thatcher was wrong ?

    Jack knows the UK is finished minus Scotland, his fortunes depend on that not happening, this is not just about politics but of survival of dinosaurs.

    • grizebard says:

      It was yir2 not SS, Bob, but yes. And they are not dinosaurs, I suggest, but parasites. Dinosaurs after all were part of a natural ecological system. We OTOH are suffering from a chronic parasitical infection, and we desperately need it cured.

      • JoMax says:

        “Britain has willingly granted independence where it has been requested, and will continue to do so where it is an option …..”

        That was the part of the sentence from yir2’s quote in the previous thread from the Parliamentary paper that made me laugh the most. For one thing “willingly”? Tell that to a few ex-colonies around the world. And what about “…. where it is an option …”? Who decides when it is an ‘option’? The Brits?

        How awfully decent of them to ‘grant’ independence when you consider how the British Empire ‘acquired’ its territories in the first place. They sure lack a ton of self-awareness. Of course, maybe I just read it all wrong.

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Thanks for the correction Grizebard.

  7. scottish skier says:

    Another great article on a topic close to my heart Paul!

    “I’m pleased to have this opportunity to talk to you about a future in which Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England continue to flourish side-by-side as equal partners.

    the current Scotland Secretary Alister Jack does not even like to acknowledge that Scotland is a nation at all, preferring instead to talk about “regional” and “dialect” differences within what he regards as the single British nation of the United Kingdom.

    These two positions are impossible to reconcile. We are either all one British country / one people, in which case it’s one person one vote for the UK parliament. Or English, Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish peoples / nations are all equal, it is one person one vote in their home nation parliaments, but ultimately one home nation one vote at a UK level, EU style.

    As most residents of Scotland are manifestly not British, but 83% are Scottish (in self national identification), and Scotland is without question legally a country, then one person one vote for Westminster is discriminatory as it does not place the Scottish nation on an equal footing to the English one, especially if Scots cannot freely vote for Scotland to leave the UK, as the likes of Jack and Bozo suggest is the case.

    The ‘democratic deficit’ is, ultimately, the result of racist discriminatory practices against minority peoples of the UK. Of course, if these agree to that (as the Scots effectively did in 2014…the welsh do by not voting for pro-indy parties), it’s difficult to complain. But if home nations cannot vote to leave freely, then that is a whole different kettle of fish, and we are into apartheid-type* racist subjugation of minority Scots, Welsh and N. Irish peoples# / their nations.

    *One distinct national / ethnic group of people have more voting power than another.

    #Note that the power sharing agreement in N. Ireland was based on the implicit recognition that much of the N. Irish population is not actually British and this is accepted in law, including in the Good Friday Agreement. Irish N. Irish people are not British. So Jack is breaking a UN peace agreement by suggesting ‘everyone in the UK is British’, even before we get to us Scots.

    • ‘Equal but different’. was the tired old straw man used to justify racisdm in the US where states tried to retain apartheid within state laws by arguing that segregated schools were ok as long as both systems provided the same level of education.
      Racist nonsense of course. The US Supreme Court ruled against ‘separate but equal’, and the 14th constitution outlawed racial segregation in US once and for all.

      May was arguing the same. We are ‘separate’, but somehow ‘equal’?
      A family of equal nations? But there is no equality if the dominant nation imposes the will of their people on the other ‘equal’ nations.
      My one vote is worth one ninth of an English voter’s vote.

      No rational human would argue otherwise.

      We are held fast as a captured colony by England, and that we Scots voted for a different path, means nought because England has the wealth the arms the Scottish Upper Class Brits and the media to prevent Scotland finding its way in the world.

      BBC and STV front men and women don’t even flinch when they observe that England won’t ‘permit’ Scotland to leave their corrupt little Empirette.
      What then. Armed revolution?

      And then they quote ‘the law’ at us who protest.
      Treason of the highest order. We shall remember.

      • JerryB says:

        “My one vote is worth one ninth of an English voter’s vote.

        “No rational human would argue otherwise.”

        Here comes the irrational human…

        What you’re saying is the opposite of the truth. In the Brexit referendum, your vote counted for exactly the same as an English voter.

        Which is what several others in this forum are complaining about – they think that the UK can only be equal if the vote of a person in Scotland counts for more than the vote of a person in England. To me that sounds even less democratic than the status quo.

        • grizebard says:

          That’s all very nice, but when England’s choices regularly trample over Scotland’s different ones, anyone who cares for the Union would be well advised to pay attention to the problem instead of indulging in facile reassertions of the dictatorship of the majority like this. Your response is redolent of the sheer disregard of the mutual respect that would be necessary to preserve the Union, and is richly indicative of how attitudes like yours are instead steadily eroding it from within.

          If you cannot comprehend how the inalienable right to Scottish self-determination can be suitably safeguarded and preserved within the Union – and in this you may well be correct in judgement as well as attitude – then you should at least have the honesty and good grace to accept and support our rightful independence instead.

          Just get off our necks, pal, go your own sweet way as you please, and leave us be.

          • JerryB says:

            Not sure what you’re getting your knickers in such a twist about. I was mainly addressing the claim that a vote in England counts for nine times a vote in Scotland, which I assume you agree is factual nonsense.

            I support independence precisely for the reason that it would give the Scottish voter more control over our government than if we’re tied to a much larger political unit. That doesn’t mean that some kind of compromise option would be to give more weight to my vote than to that of someone south of the border. One-person, one-vote seems to me the epitome of “mutual respect”.

            • grizebard says:

              If I’m getting my “knickers in a twist”, it seems odd that everything thereafter claims to be in basic agreement. First a Unionist “we’re all in it together” trope and now it’s mere empty quibbling. Who but you is suggesting a “compromise option”? Frankly, look to your own knickers if you must, but leave mine out of it.

        • Oh dear, Jerry B.
          We are a ‘partnership of equals’, they argue. 5.4 million and 60 million are not equal.
          England votes, and we have it imposed on us.
          That cannot work, of course,
          But of course,we know what you are arguing; but are no longer listening to this ‘voice of the conqueror’ imperial arrogance,

          The UK is finished.

          So your tiresome argument that ‘Britain’, the ‘British People’, voted to leave the EU blah blah..falls, unless, you believe that ‘Britain’ is some sort of immutable Nation state, which of course it isn’t.

          In a forced political union, of course my vote is one ninth of an English vote.

          Up Here We, the people, voted for parties committed to ending the Union…

          Yet the 90% of the UK electorate who didn’t have a vote on a distinctly Scottish issue, can prohibit us from ending our relationship with them?

          ‘Near, Dougal, Far away, Dougal.’
          They are raping our land and resources and channelling our wealth Southwards as I type.;
          No more.

          • JerryB says:

            “But of course,we know what you are arguing”

            It seems that you don’t remotely know what I’m arguing, since you spend your entire post ascribing views to me that I don’t hold and haven’t even implied that I hold, such as that Scotland should be prevented from leaving the UK.

            • Enough already.
              I tire of obtuse trolling.
              You know precisely how ‘the Union’ is rigged. We are a colony.
              A militarily occupied colony of England. One man one vote…sheesh.

        • Alex Clark says:

          What you’re saying is the opposite of the truth. In the Brexit referendum, your vote counted for exactly the same as an English voter.

          Sure it did, but the fact that Scots voters are outnumbered by a ratio of 10/1 means it mattered not a jot that Scotland voted 62% to Remain in the EU, the overwhelming numbers of the English vote meant that Scots votes played a minor part in the decision of the UK to leave the EU and were powerless to stop the UK leaving even if they had voted 100% to Remain.

          This is important because the Scottish government made the case that as 62% of Scots voted to remain then Westminster should negotiate a deal with the EU that allowed exactly that. Of course, they refused, there would be no “special deals” except of course for Northern Ireland.

          These are changed days, the people of Scotland want their voice to be heard and their vote to count. The United Kingdom is finished and it’s just a matter of hammering the last nail in the coffin.

          • grizebard says:

            Indeed. A Union whose supporters puff it as being our “flexible friend”, sympathetic recognition of that stark political reality would have been the wise response. Instead we were “put in our place” for daring to be different, first by May, then by BoJo & Co. It’s that very inability to breathe life into an ailing institution and an increasingly-desperate preference to suffocate it instead with ever-greater centralised rigidity that is slowly killing it and driving in the nails.

          • JerryB says:

            Yup. The contrasting treatment of Scotland and NI showed that an independence movement backed by the threat of violence will always win more concessions from the UK than one which is purely electoral. A sad lesson.

        • scottish skier says:

          I think you need to read UN charters which are based on the equality of peoples.

          Within nations, all individuals should be equal, while all nations are should be likewise equal.

          This is why voting at the UN isn’t based on population share, but each country has a single vote, whether they are Russia or Andorra. Same at the EU union council; one nation one vote. Is that anti-democratic?

          It’s likewise the case for federal states like the USA, where Wyoming with a population of 0.6 m has a single senator, just like California with its 40m. One state one vote vote in the senate.


          Then we have e.g. the EU parliament and German federal parliaments using degressive proportionality, with a Danish vote in EU elections more powerful than a French one; Denmark having 2.2 MEPs per million population, but France only 1.2. Anti-democratic?


          The reason for all this is simple; international human rights laws are based on not just the equality of individuals, but equality of peoples / nations as noted. The French are not racist, so happily accept that that the Danish people / nation should have an equal say to them, even if France is 14x the population of Denmark. They are different to the English / British in this way, i.e. not racist*, and believe in equality.

          Also, in addition to not being racist, EU country governments have some brains, so appreciate that if they don’t follow the principle of equality of peoples / nations, the EU will break up. If a country in union is not an equal to its partners, it will vote for independence to achieve that. The same principle exists in federal states like Germany and the USA; if smaller states are walked all over by the big ones, the union/federation will be put at risk.

          In multinational unions the risk are even higher for obvious reasons. Americans are mostly all American. In Scotland, most Scots are not actually British.

          Which is where we are in the UK. The direction of travel since the end of the post war consensus, is that Scots don’t see themselves as British, so want Scotland to be treated equally to England in the UK, getting the government it voted for (‘devo max’). If that doesn’t happen, Scotland will simply become independent to give itself that equality and the same voting rights on the world stage as England/the rUK.

          *This is not my opinion, but that of UK voters. It’s difficult to argue with them.


          • JerryB says:

            Lauding EU countries for their respect for smaller states is a sick joke considering what happened only four years ago. Did Spain observe the principle of “equality of peoples” then? By any definition, they “walked all over” Catalonia: has the integrity of their country been put at risk? Has the EU or UN seen fit to penalise them at all?

            I think it’s extremely likely that the UK government’s intransigence on a Section 30 has been emboldened by the Spanish example. Cameron felt under pressure in 2011 to play ball to at least some extent. After 2017, they realise they can do whatever they want and the supranational organisations will leave them to it.

            • scottish skier says:

              Aye, Spain is a problem for the EU, just like the UK is/was.

              To use the Spanish approach for Scotland, Bozo needs to:
              – Get English courts to declare any referendum in Scotland illegal
              – Send English troops / police into Scotland to disrupt any referendum vote, beat up old ladies etc…
              – Arrest and try the Scottish cabinet, including by means of pursuing them using international arrest warrants (which will be rejected)
              – Shut down police Scotland, putting them under the control of the English police / government
              – Suspend Holyrood and introduce direct English rule

              It’s without doubt an option, but I can’t see it happening.

              As an Irishman (dual national), my experience – and that of folks from all the other former colonies – is that English/British Tories are just too weak, cowardly and pathetic to do this. They’ll threaten it, but soil themselves at the fist sign of resistance and run like they always do.

            • grizebard says:

              Catalonia wasn’t (and alas still isn’t) a state nor member of the EU in its own right, so the EU had no obligation to it. So your {ahem} “killer point” is fallacious.

              Jeez, we’re back in weary old “The EU must intervene” / “The EU is an ever-interfering bossyboots” split-personality territory again, the version of the complaint flipping to suit, but always to paint the poor old EU as the pantomime villain. Have we not grown out of that yet?

          • Like Paul, SS, you are the voice of reason.
            Now can we bin the ‘JerryB’ nonsense?

  8. Clydebuilt says:

    The National: Tried 4 shops not one had a copy of the paper. . . .

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:


      Try buying a National in shops where they do have them…but where some sad individual(s) hide them behind a Unionist newspaper……have this problem EVERY week…….

      Was it a case of they DON’T sell it or they have sold all the copies ?

      Good if paper sold out….bad if they do not stock The National……..

  9. Capella says:

    Listened to PM R4 to catch up on COP26. Evan Davies brought up the binman strike. He interviewed a representative of the GMBs who mumbled some bizarre explanation of their reason for going on strike, which seemed to amount to “we’re fed up with the SNP Council”.
    Evan asked if there were rats. Oh yes says the union man.
    No other person interviewed.
    Fair and balanced?

  10. exile says:

    scottish skier @ 5.33 pm: In your fourth paragraph, “it’s one person one vote for the UK parliament” should be “it’s one person one vote for the UK House of Commons”. In the UK’s part-democracy no persons (other than those who run the UK government) vote for the members of the UK House of Lords.

  11. Marc says:

    OT but these the two VT’s from the COP opening ceremony for those who have not seen them; both of which are striking and thought-provoking in their own way.

    (the footage in the second is all from the last 12 months)

    • Capella says:

      Good images. For a moment I thought the narrator on the first one was going to be Brian Cox the actor. Now that would have been special.
      Unfortunately, the people who make billions form the fossil fuel industry (heavily subsidised by the tax payer) are not the same people who pay the cost of climate devastation. Videos like these should be on the BBC every day or at least as often as SUV adverts.

  12. Alex Clark says:

    Gaslighting by the red and blue Tories is only made possible by the BBC and friends in the media. Without their support they would fail.

  13. Dr Jim says:

    I did laugh at Boris Johnsons opening speech where he described Glasgow as the place where the doomsday machine was invented by James Watt (the Steam Engine) you know as if coal had never been burned before anywhere on earth

    Union world is however in meltdown by Nicola Sturgeons pamphlet that was made available to all COP 26 visitors on arrival depicting a picture of Nicola Sturgeon with the words *Scotland a nation in waiting welcomes the nations of the world*

    The complaints are still flooding in like a tsunami, quite apt really

  14. Alastair Bryan says:

    Gaslighting and rewriting scottish history though a union lens has went on for almost as long as this corupt rotten union has been in existence. Sign the petition that is on Scotland goes pop web site and get BBC Scotland under Hollyrood control. If they dont do it we should all stop paying the licence fee.

  15. grizebard says:

    Took a peep over at the latest SGP poll article and once again we see around a quarter of people are the usual “British-minded” who actually claim (or even believe??) that Brexit shortages weaken the case for Scottish independence. The familiar FibDem Party Line. Stuck where it always is with only the blinkered diehards.

    JK also muses on those who are neutral about the effects, which could have rather been more interesting and productive, but while elsewhere he recognises that British media omerta is having an effect, simply can’t resist taking another cheap dig at the SNP. Just because. (Never mind that very many people have plenty enough distractions of their own right now.) It’s getting as predictable and boring as the Labour rat chorus. Despite the evidence presented that Brexit consequences are continuing to change minds, he wants {ho hum} a rush to judgement before a long winter of further accumulating evidence helps our case. Perverse or what?

    • grizebard, I’m a great believer in the philosophical conundrum:- If a tree falls in the forest, and there is no one there to hear it fall, does it make a sound?
      I have no interest in blogs and their content which I choose not to visit.
      JK is a tree which has fallen, and in my absence, did not make a sound.
      Likewise Grouse Beater, WoS, and the rest of the Alba/Salmond fan club.
      Tired old stuff, so 2013.

  16. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    I wonder if anyone on here watched Dispatches on Channel 4 tonight…it was a cracker.

    “How green is the government” ( UK one)

    It showed Boris Johnson at a summit heralding wind power….and saying “some people said wind power couldn’t blow the skin off a rice pudding”.

    Then it showed who it was who said that….via a video ….Boris Johnson…yes he was the source.

    So basically Boris Johnson used his OWN quote to attribute quote as being from SOMEONE ELSE.

    That encapsulates the essence of this man…..either totally dishonest or an idiot…or both. ( though not by far a Unique example of him lying and deceiving the public).

    It also mentioned how UK government’s commitment to plant X amount of trees was not met indeed it mentioned majority planted was by Scottish government…which we all knew anyway on here.

    It also mentioned DRAX Biomass ( manufacturer of compressed wood pellets produced from so called sustainably managed working forests) and how the UK government have invested millions in it…but the trees they burn are sourced outwith UK therefore the carbon emissions is not attributable to the UK but instead to the country of source…..thus not reflecting a true picture of total carbon emissions by the UK…..two young people had taken government to court over this…but Judge decided not to proceed …even though they had evidence via a reputable body that proves the UK government not telling the truth and have failed commitments in their so called 10 point plan for a Green Industrial Revolution..

    There was also many other things included…including UK government’s continued investment and commitment to oil and gas sectors via their, Oil and Gas companies, lobbying power ……..

    This programme was very fair to the Scottish Govt and Scotland but exposed the real villains and enemy of the climate within the UK was the UK government itself.

    Boris and his Tories Talk the Talk but are NOT walking the walk.

    Perhaps it now easy to see why the UK government wants to privatise Channel four….

    This reminded me of John Pilger’s expose on NHS and privatisation……the links between right wing Think tanks close to the UK government not just in a geographical sense but in the rhetoric and lobbying for privatisation within the NHS…..

    If any Scot watched tonight’s programme and is still convinced that the Union is best for Scotland….then they either have a comprehension problem or they really just do not care.

    The BBC and ITV are gaslighting us all on Boris Johnson’s so called anger and frustration at other world leaders lack of commitment….Dispatches tonight showed Boris J’s true lack of commitment nay apathy….. indeed once more money, the power and influence of big corporations and capitalist self interest and greed take precedence over the planet and those who live on it….in Tory UKnotOK land.

    Oh my God …….I personally am not sure how much more I can take of this…..but it confirms that Alister Jack as a Tory is complicit in all of this in his association as a cabinet minister and thus is someone I…indeed no one….should trust or believe on ANYTHING.

    Meanwhile while the Tories are doing this….Anas Sarwar is burying his head in the sand and trying to deflect from what is seen as a HUGE conference on Climate change….by him helping to instigate a HUGE problem locally…to impact local people….and thus like Boris J and his spat with the French on fishing……Anas is doing his bit to try and overshadow this conference of significance by backing a refuse strike that will in itself generate pollution on the environment…..this people are the fighters for the Union…….another Rest my case moment…..as one of many.

    • Lovely piece, NMRN.
      The binmen are out on strike for a week,
      No wages.. So any deal, which will be the one already agreed by GMB, will be 2% less for the Glasgow workers than, those working for the other 31 councils.
      I’m consciously not watching any COP 26 coverage, but fleetingly spotted the Butcher’s Apron, folded expertly to look like the St George flag of England, on the podium next to the UN emblem.

      .Since the Clyde is UN territory for a fortnight, why was Johnson allowed to have his Fourth Reich flag planted in the background?

      England is sinking below the Plimsoll line, drowning in the self destructive stupidity of Empire Past.

      Brits lie with the ease and superior air of conquerors.

      En passant, We never did get the autumn leaves brushed up.
      Our garden and pavement looks as if giant corn flakes had spilled from Goliath’s cereal bowl.

      Like the Jock Brits hanging on like grim death, horse chestnut tree leaves stick stubbornly to any moist surface they touch.
      Tomorrow is another day.

      • grizebard says:

        I also marked upon that Bringlish Rag lurking there in the podium background, half covering the UN symbol, and reacted like you, Jack. It had no business whatever being there in a UN-controlled zone.

        It had the very teeniest speck of blue showing somewere, which just about sums up our standing in this shrunken needy thing, The Bringlish Empire.

  17. Dr Jim says:

    Nicola Sturgeon pictured in conversation with Jo Biden at the art galleries
    Looks like Boris’s henchmen aren’t succeeding in keeping *that woman* out of things

    • James Mills says:

      Given Biden’s feelings towards Johnson’s and his cavalier attitude to the GFA in Ireland , I would not have been surprised if he had instructed his advisers
      ” Get me a photo-op with whoever gets up Johnson’s nose the most – and publicise it widely ! ”

      • Not-My-Real-Name says:

        Indeed James…..mind you that would involve a queue…..

      • Marc says:

        If that is the case they’re doing a bad job at it! No images showing on google, Twitter or Instagram and none of the wire image agencies (PA, AP, Getty) are running it; has anyone got a link to the images?

        • scottish skier says:

          It would be a bit of a surprise if Biden didn’t at least say hello to the leader of the host nation / Scotland’s highest raking politician at some point.

          It would however not be a surprise if the UK press didn’t advertise that! They neglected to tell us when we had a formal visit by the EU ambassador for talks.

          • Marc says:

            I’m sure he did and you could very well be right about the British press hence I went to Getty/PA & AP who are the companies that provide the wire/press pool images to the worlds media.

            Couldn’t see anything there hence asking for the link to the source.

  18. yesindyref2 says:

    This is such a perfectly aimed omni-target SNP ad I’m nearly speechless in admiration. Completely highlights the “tragic” mistake Bozo made in excluding her from COP26 in her own country, ably advised as he was by Bobbin’ Jack the last Secretary of State “for” Scotland, like, ever.


    Anyone got a link to a paper website it was used for real?

  19. Bob Lamont says:

    “The clocks went back over the weekend, but this being Brexit Britain, they had to go back to the 1950s, and if it was a clock that was made in the European Union, it had to go back to where it came from” 🤣

  20. scottish skier says:

    Ryanair following all the HGV and other key workers flooding out the UK exit gates.


    Ryanair to pull London Stock Exchange listing because of Brexit

    Ryanair will pull its share listing from the London Stock Exchange in the next six months because of Brexit, as the airline made a quarterly profit for the first time since 2019.

  21. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    I noted on prominent Remainers and anti Tory Twitter a/c’s ( not in Scotland) are commentating on Boris Johnson sitting , sleeping, next to David Attenborough and NOT wearing a mask…they highlight the fact that David A is 95 years old…..but OMIT to mention that Boris is INDOORS in Scotland where the WEARING of a MASK INDOORS is MANDATORY………yes it is selfish NOT to consider someone older……but it is also a legal requirement as per Scotland’s Covid rules….indeed England is the ONLY country within UK that is out of step with other countries within UK on mask wearing…..

    I suspect Boris in his childish and petulant way was defying Scottish Covid rules deliberately……as opposed to respecting OUR rules….as if…..respect is most not a virtue identified with that clown…..

  22. Bob Lamont says:

    A very good analysis on the GMB (Liebour ?) confected stooshie in Glasgow over at
    I’d thought initially GMB were trying to strongarm GCC on the Court of Session case, but later heard the legal action had been suspended, which threw that notion in the mincer.

    The GCC equal pay fiasco was sickening enough under Labour’s blind eye in administration, even more sickening when the GMB marched in “solidarity” with Leonard et al to tell the SNP Admin they were not solving the problem THEY created quick enough, but if this as many suspect, turns out to be yet another Labour/GMB mafia game, I sincerely hope the people of Glasgow tell Chris Mitchell and Anas Sarwar their time is up.

    • Just filled my brown bin with autumn leaves and hedge clippings.. It can lie there ’til Christmas as far as I’m concerned.
      Let’s hope the strikers know who to blame when their December pay’s a week light, while they get the same raise as their colleagues in the other 31 LAs, who will of course have a full pay in time for Christmas.
      I cannot help that refuse collectors with a family were forced into downing tools. Otherwise the pointless stoppage makes no sense at all, other than the Momentum commies and the Red Tories giving the Bad SnNP a bloody nose.
      Sheep led by donkeys.

  23. Dr Jim says:

    One of the most sickening insulting behaviours from The English government their news media and the opposition to Scottish democracy is the continual use of the phrase *devolved nation* or *devolved country* because it’s totally inaccurate and offensive and that’s why they say it

    You can devolve authority competencies or power but people are not devolved and never have been, it’s an insult and specifically designed to be an insult, no country or people on earth are or is devolved, only their powers of governance and authority is

    So these Bastirts can come round my house and tell me I’m a devolved person and they’ll get my devolved size 9s promoted up their imperialist Arses, and as I have other shoes I’ll make sure they need a proctologist to remove them

  24. Legerwood says:

    Interesting article in the Guardian about Ms Sturgeon making her presence felt at Cop26


    • Bob Lamont says:

      ” and finally makes voters amenable to the tougher changes to their energy use, and driving, shopping and holiday habits that cutting CO2 emissions involves…” ?
      What contrived nonsense from Severin Carrell and Libby Brooks, with notable nods to the climate denial lobby on the “we can’t afford to change” front.
      “tougher changes to their energy use” – as in the Tory market philosophy over gas and electricity sales going pear shaped despite Scotland exporting more than it needs in both?
      “and driving” – Have they changed changed LHS to RHS and nobody told the Chief Constable ?
      “Shopping” – It is already challenging thanks to England’s Brexit decision, what other screw-ups did you have in mind ?
      “holiday habits”- Is Skye now to be on the next red zone list ?

      Meanwhile in Scotland, “you don’t say”…

      • Legerwood says:

        Yep, they trotted out all the usual tropes but interesting bit was that they had noticed her presence at all and the prominence of that presence.

        Latest is a photo of FM with PM Belgium.

        Not bad going for someone BJ said would not get a look in.

  25. James Mills says:

    I don’t recognise the description by Severin Carrell of the position in Scotland vis-a vis support for independence . He gives much prominence to the views of some who may not be fully supportive of the RM – surprisingly – NOT !

  26. scottish skier says:



    COP26: Mike Bloomberg shares support for Scotland’s World Cup effort

    FORMER presidential hopeful Mike Bloomberg expressed support for Scotland’s national football team during an appearance at COP26 in Glasgow this afternoon.

    Billionaire Bloomberg, former mayor of New York, has been UN special envoy for climate ambition and solutions since February of this year.

  27. Legerwood says:

    President of Zambia now.

  28. scottish skier says:

    This guy isnae gonnae be popular with Alister Jack.


    UN chief António Guterres praises Scotland’s efforts to tackle climate change

    …”On the other hand, I know that Scotland has a very clear target of reaching net zero clearly before 2050. Scotland is one of the first international actors that has determined money for loss and damage – that is a very important point for developing countries.

    “I would like to start by saying how much I appreciate the Scottish effort in this regard.”

    • Aye, Glenn Campbell interviewed the UN General Secretary on Distorting Scotland.
      He pressed Sen Guterres on developing the Shetlands and West Coast oil fields and new coal, right enough, arguing that the UK seems to be be saying one thing and doing another.
      The cynics amongst us, include me in, had the sense that Campbell was laying the ground for the ‘too poor’ trope come the Final Battle For Freedom..hoping by 2023 he could argue that there was no oil and gas revenue futures, income without which, Scotland is an economic desert, unlike Denmark, Sweden Ireland etc.
      Campbell actually #voiced over’ Antonio Guterres’ unstinted praise of the Scottish Government’s Climate Change targets and progress.
      Now this was a deliberate editorial choice by Campbell.
      C an’t have viewers seeing and hearing the UN Secretary General PRAISING the Scottish Government, on the BBC!!!!
      That would never do..the truth on BBC Scotland..Yer havin’ a laff.

      The usual North Korean strength manipulation of news by Campbell.
      By the way, Glenn, how is the shell fish industry faring post Brexit in your home isle Islay?

  29. Alex Clark says:

    Here is the full interview by Christiane Amanpour of CNN with Nicola Sturgeon where she asks about Oil & Scottish Independence as well as climate change, about 10 mins.

    • P Harvey says:

      What a difference it makes when Nicola is allowed to finish sentences & points, without interruption, by a professional interviewer!
      Cristal clear for the doubters- Indy 2 soon!
      Great performance by Nicola

  30. Alex Clark says:

    State of this.

    Chris Mitchell of the GMB knows he has f*cked up but is doubling down. Oh dear, it will not end well for him and Anas Sarwar going by the comments to this video and show of idiocy.

    • Stephen McKenzie says:

      Is he available for Panto, as I guess he will be “resting” between normal duties..

    • grizebard says:

      A nice wee Labourite setup-in-a-bubble that. A tribute act to Liverpool back in the 1970s? (Is that a well-chosen reminder?) However personally satisfying it may be for Mitchell to strut his stuff, it’s obviously well beyond merely serving the vital interests of his own union membership. If he wants a career in politics, fair enough, he can stand for election just like anybody else. (And suffer the consequences.) But if I was a Glasgow binman, I would be wondering why my paypacket has to go short just to further his rabble-rousing ambitions.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Am I the only person who remembers this forum is supposed to be about Independence, not about peoples. grudges against Labour who left them they didn’t leave Labour, nor about GMB, nor about going well out of the way to antagonise the 40 unions affiliated to the STUC which is at worst neutral, with around 675,000 members, plus their partners, kids, siblings and parents like me?

      Vote YES you snivelling nasty union members who embarrassed the SNP council and government, sob, cry, where’s my SNP embossed tissue.

      • grizebard says:

        Oh dear. You don’t win your case by amping-up disagreements about the current deeply cynical behaviour of the GMB leadership into a generalised attack on the whole labour movement. That’s cheap. We deserve better. It’s disingenuous at best to elide those parts of the labour movement which are well-disposed (or even merely neutral) to the matter of independence with those who are its most bitter paid-up enemies, and it’s frankly insulting to blithly assert out of nowhere that we don’t or can’t (or shouldn’t, even?) see the difference. I think most indy supporters are fully aware and alert enough to be able to distinguish friends from enemies, and not merely bundle them all together out of paralysing fear that we might offend some random passing-by faint-heart somewhere and thereby scupper the whole damn deal.

        Oh, and we can well do without any snide finger-wagging on the subject from anyone either.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          That’s cheap. We deserve better.

          No, you don’t.

          Not while you and the usual suspects continue to put off potential YES voters who are members of the GMB (and other unions). To alienate soft YES voters and convert them to NO. Workers who are glad to have a union to stand up for them. Including bin men and women.

          You’re pushing them into the arms of Labour, and the next Better Together.

          Latest opinion poll: 45% YES, 48% NO. And no wonder.

          • Hamish100 says:

            Can you quote the poll for reference. Thanks

          • grizebard says:

            This is getting absurd, but it’s what I’ve suspected all along. You don’t want even the faintest criticism of dodgy Labour pro-Union practices, in which case why would any Labour supporter learn anything to change their mind in coming here? It’s so extreme a position that it’s fundamentally self-defeating. An election coming up in the Spring and the best you can think of is to “wheesht for Labour”? {shudder}

  31. Hamish100 says:

    Is he alright? Is medical help required?
    Or is he just a prat?

    They will all look rather lonely when cop finishes.

  32. yesindyref2 says:

    Dearie dearie me “It’s a Labour/GMB conspiracy” hatefest.


    Glasgow CC:

    Controlling party Years
    Labour 1980–2017
    No overall control 2017–present

    Years Leader
    1996–1997: Bob Gould (Labour)
    1997–1999: Frank McAveety (Labour)
    1999–2005: Charlie Gordon (Labour)
    2005–2010: Steven Purcell (Labour)
    2010–2015: Gordon Matheson (Labour)
    2015–2017: Frank McAveety (Labour)
    2017–present: Susan Aitken (SNP)


    Today’s strike is the culmination of over a decade of austerity forced in through a bullying culture

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but “over a decade” means considering this is 2021, from at least 2011 if not 2010 to the present.

    And hey, guess what, from 2010 to 2017 – that’s 7 years including the infamous Gordon Matheson and Frank McAveety – that’s a L-A-B-O-U-R council. It’s only the last 4 years it’s been an SNP NOC council.

    Ah yes, it’s been a Labour plot since 2010 by GMB to disrupt, errr, Labour.

    Oh wait …

    • grizebard says:

      I’m not sure what you’re really getting at here, but if it’s some kind of attempt to defend the GMB, you don’t have to plumb decades of history, you only have to look back a year or two to see their modus operandi. Labour GCC resisted paying its women workers for years, even challenged them in expensive litigation, and what exactly did the union do about it for its members? Quietly colluded. Then no sooner had the SNP got in charge, than there was the very same GMB in a volte-face, taking its own neglected members out on the streets demanding instant change! Piling insult upon injury, all in aid of the Party. A party that self-evidently sees ordinary people only as convenient pawns.

      So if you happen to imagine that this kind of perverse rewriting of history by the GMB is some kind of “proof” of its saintliness because it wouldn’t – {gasp} couldn’t – possibly ever diss its own side – oh, perish the very thought! – you have comprehensively failed to grasp the degree of duplicity of these people and of the degree of contempt they hold for the ordinary unsuspecting voters of Glasgow. We need hard-headed realism about the extent of their desperation to get back, by fair means or foul (mostly the latter), what they believe is their rightful inheritance. Thwarting them in the coming local elections won’t be served by shallow appeasement, no matter how well-intentioned, of GMB union leadership. What they are trying to bring off right now is a lying farce, a grotesque charade. Those are the real rats that Glasgow needs rid of.

      • Dr Jim says:

        GMB = *Gaes Ma Bung* affiliated to the Labung party, queue up for your brown envelopes behind the red door

      • yesindyref2 says:

        I’m not sure what you’re really getting at here,

        What I’m really really really getting at is that it’s not supposed to be about a vendetta against, in no particular order, GMB, Labour, RMT, EIS, Unite, the armed forces, bin men, reachers, railway workers, energy workers, people who own businesses, farmers, sub-lieutentants, pilot officers, police officers, Unison, Sarwar, ASLEF, CCW, dentists, USDAW, or whoever next takes the fancy of you and others to attack, it is, as I said in the other post, supposed to be about:



        Sorry, what was that word again?


        You lot have lost your way and forgotten what is supposed to unite us, and that’s, ummm, errr, what was that word again? Oh yes:


        And trying not to piss off 675,000 members of unions in Scotland who have been courted over years by the SNP you pretend to worship, plus their families who are all potential YES voters by carrying on with your personal vendettas against some political party 30% of whose voters used to support, ummm, errr, vendet no wait a minute, what was that word again, ah yes:


        Good grief. And you lot have the cheek to complain about Alba.

        • Och, now you’re just being silly, IndyRef2.
          Sarwar has nothing in common with this sad wee man.
          Hhe wouldn’t be inviting him ’round for dinner, that’s for sure.
          Yu have forgotten Clause 4, PFI schools and hospitals, the Right To Buy council houses, Purcell’s £400,000 Golden Parachute during the Equal Pay 10 year battle by decent honest women?
          Give it a fucking rest.
          I first joined my then TU in 1965. I’ve earned the right to expose this little idiot and the chancers in TUS, who are out to destroy.
          He is one of a long line of posturing idiots posing in front of a dozen or so ‘comrades’.
          The BBC love him.
          ‘I thought this site was dedicated to Independence’.
          Aye, richt.

        • Eilidh says:

          So we are only allowed to talk about Independence not about those who seek to damage it by political shenanigans re this strike by GMB who are probably being worked from the back by Labour. If GMB are on about 10 years of austerity why wait until now for this strike it is clearly political motivated to embarrass Snp Council and government. I worked for GCC for 36 years and was a Unison member the whole time so have knowledge of how GMB operate in that Council particularly in regard to how they worked against fair pay for women employees. Glasgow Council tax payers I know not happy with GMB re strike and at least one cleaning staff member/GMB not happy either. By your way of thinking we should not talk about those who seek to damage Indy so that would rule out Tories like Alastair Jack etc

          • Capella says:

            I agree. I don’t understand the attitude, “We support independence but we mustn’t point out the duplicity of the opponents of independence”.
            Surely exposing the lies and mendacity of unionism is part of the process of wakening up the soft NOs, whether they are members of the unionist parties – especially if they are members of unionist parties?

        • grizebard says:

          Yawn, yawn, yawn. Why do you keep having to exaggerate to try to defend your absurd extremist position? Nobody here is generically “anti-union”. We do though have specific criticism of the activities of particular unions and particular individuals leading them, not least in respect of that very issue you keep misusing: independence. If they are attacking independence, we have (according to you) to say nothing about it. Ridiculous.

          Myself, I’ve been a voluntary member of three unions in my working life, and was glad to have done it. I would recommend the same to any working person today. By persisting as you are doing though in misrepresenting the position of people here, you are doing your case no favours whatsoever. You don’t seem to have the slightest confidence in the members of unions themselves who may stop by here, that somehow they are generically unable to see the difference between this facile smear of “anti-unionism” as opposed to specific criticism of specific activities of specific unions and their leadership who are manifestly politicising the issue of independence – yes, that word again! – and acting against it in direct contradiction to the interests of their own membership. If I were a member of a union whose leadership were playing politics like that, I would want to hear about it, not wallow unenlightened in your proposed fearful omerta. They (and we) don’t need your patronising “news management”.

      • scottish skier says:

        Far be it from me to interfere in someone else’s stairheid rammy, but I’ll just add the following:

        1. The public are not very supportive of strike / direct action that punishes the innocent, i.e. them. Bin strikes fall into this category, as does e.g. blocking the motorway so they can’t get to their hospital appointment

        2. The public don’t decide how they’ll vote based on whether they like/agree with BTL commenters* or not. Slightly more important factors govern this

        3. Unionists think 2 is the case when it isn’t; hence the high number of, ahem, ‘real independence supporters’ out there

        *Nor prominent bloggers, individual politicians, or even political parties themselves to a large extent. It’s far greater than all of these, as are the forces driving it.

        • yesindyref2 says:

          If it was just 5 or 6 posters on this blog who are so anti-union, that wouldn’t matter. It would help if lurkers came out and disapproved of that all the same. But it’s not just below the line here, or elsewhere, there’s a certain blog has 6 anti-GMB articles this month already.

          And worse than that – look at the comments below the tweet ON the GMB Scotland twitter feed, and see how many of these are blatantly obviously GMB-hating YES voters:

          Way to go, Indy, but not till 2335 – if then.

          All people have to do is think:

          “Is this likely to convince an undecided or soft NO?”

          • Arthur Thomson says:

            Stroll on troll.

          • Capella says:

            We are not responsible for what other bloggers and other commenters post. I can only take responsibility for my own contributions. As a former shop steward in NALGO (predecessor to Unison) I can confirm that Trade Unions are an essential component of a democratic society.

            Collective bargaining strengthens the hand of Trade Unions against the combined forces of cartels and governments. The Trade Union movement created the Labour Party to have representation in Westminster. Extra parliamentary action is deemed undemocratic.

            Unfortunately, the Labour Party betrayed the trade union movement, removed Clause 4 and extended the Thatcher era attacks instead of removing them. But when Trade Unionists seek to undermine democratically elected governments and abandon collective bargaining then all bets are off. It’s every man for himself – and they will lose.

  33. Capella says:

    Excellent point about colonisation of Scotland from Joseph Sikulu, Pacific Climate Warrior.

  34. Dr Jim says:

    The classic style of colonisation by England for hundreds of years has always been to take over a country indoctrinate the indigenous population into believing they are now all *family* with mother England taking care of the *big things* as they strip and live off the assets of the country they call *family* then when that country has nothing left England might *allow* them their human right of Independence

    Over 60 countries in the world have at one time been *family* to England and now they’re not, every single one of those countries are not on the phone hoping to be readopted as *family* by England, and the reason? England is a foreign country just the same as any other country who would do the same thing, just because we speak the same language now (because it was forced upon us to do so) does not make it our family, family is who people choose to be so

    The England *family* is like the mafia who’ll punish you make you suffer or kill you if you dare reject it, in what world is that *family*
    We all have family living in countries all over the world but the places where they live and the governments of those places are not our family they’re foreign lands with agendas of their own

    The land of Scotland is where we live and England is preventing our country from having the human right to our own choice of agenda, that is not what *family* is about

    Scotland is *snibbed* *kep in* *imprisoned* from having a choice

    When any country takes over another they employ fifth columnists to keep themselves informed in controlling that country, in Scotland we also have a rash of self employed fifth columnists infesting the internet and newspaper comments, these people are the lowest of the low and to be despised for what they are, proud Scots, they just love using that term, and when they do we see them

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