The entitlement of British nationalism

For the second time in the space of a few months, the centre of Scotland’s largest city was taken over by a horde of drunken aggressive men, destroying public property and attacking the police, passers by, and one another, and leaving a trail of destruction and chaos in their wake. Up to 15,000 Rangers fans congregated in the city in order to celebrate their team’s victory in the league. They ignored the official guidance prohibiting gathering in large groups. Few wore face coverings and there was little attempt at social distancing. The fact that Glasgow is perched precariously on the verge of a third wave of the virus and this mass gathering could have acted as a super-spreader event did not factor into the selfish calculations of those present. All that these entitled men (and they were overwhelmingly men) cared about was their own god-given absolute right to act as they pleased without caring about the consequences.

It was notable that those Conservative politicians who had been quick to condemn last week’s protest against the Home Office raid in Kenmure Street were silent when it came to speaking out against the Union flag bedecked yob violence which scarred Glasgow at the weekend. However the day before the violence the Tory MSP Murdo Fraser sought to draw a false equivalence between the Pollokshields protest and the anticipated “celebration” due that weekend. This was crass even by Murdo’s standards. A peaceful community protest is not remotely comparable to a drunken violent rampage by football hooligans. The residents of Kenmure Street did not choose for a Home Office van to descend on their street and attempt to detain and deport two of their neighbours. They were reacting in the only way possible to an unwanted event which had been visited upon them. There was no other way to prevent their neighbours’ deportation. Urgent and immediate action was vital. It is shameful, as some Conservative and British nationalist apologists have done, to attempt to draw a moral equivalence between this and drunken yobs going on a violent rampage as they assert their privilege and entitlement.

The Rangers fans in Glasgow at the weekend were attacking police officers, setting off dangerous fireworks, fighting with each other, throwing objects around, destroying public property, smashing bottles and urinating in the street. The socially distanced protestors at the marches or those responding to the attempted deportation did not do any of this. They took steps to act responsibly and to ensure that those not involved were not negatively impacted. The hooligans in George Square made a point of causing distress, upset and harm to other people.

However Rangers fans did not need to congregate in their thousands in the streets in order to celebrate their team’s victory. Far less did they need to embark upon a violent and destructive rampage while chanting sectarian hate-filled songs. If they had just wanted to celebrate, they could have celebrated at home and while obeying lockdown restrictions in the exact same way that the rest of us have been forced to celebrate important and significant life events during the course of this pandemic.

But for many of those present this wasn’t about celebration, it was something far more primitive, it was a territorial assertion of ownership. Those union flags were British nationalists telling us all that they own this city, that they own these streets. The violent and aggressive gathering was a reflection of the deep sense of entitlement of British nationalism. When you assert that “We are the people” you are implying that others are not part of “the people”, that they are somehow alien and less deserving of rights and recognition. When you accompany that with sectarian anti -catholic songs, it’s clear that you are asserting that Scots with an Irish catholic heritage are not properly Scottish at all.

However there are also institutional failures at play here. Police Scotland seemed to have been ill-prepared for disturbances which could have been predicted based upon the behaviour of some Rangers fans in March. The force stands accused of double standards, being markedly more tolerant of the misbehaviour of right wing thugs and Rangers fans waving union flags than it was of socially distanced Black Lives Matter protestors. Such double standards merely reinforce the sense of entitlement of those running riot and tells them that their bad behaviour will be indulged.

The football authorities must also take responsibility. The only way that fans will learn to behave is when they realise that their poor behaviour has negative consequences for their club. The SFA must apply severe sanctions to a club after its supporters have behaved the way some Rangers fans behaved over the weekend. The SFA has described the events of the weekend as an abomination not a celebration. But will they give meaning to their words?

The best way to ensure that this sort if thing does not happen again is for fans to be self-policing but that will only happen when fans see that their club will have to pay a heavy price when groups of fans misbehave. These sanctions should include the club being stripped of titles and trophies, clubs being forced to play matches behind closed doors, the loss of points, and in severe cases instant relegation. Fans will continue to misbehave if they think that the worst that will happen is that their club gets a slap on the wrist. I don’t care for football, I have no interest in league titles or trophies.  I have no skin in this game, but the behaviour of some Rangers fans over this weekend was egregious enough that the club should be stripped of the title whose win was being “celebrated”. Unfortunately that’s unlikely to happen. We’ll get some platitudes and nothing meaningful will happen, exactly the same as the last time and all the times before that.

We have come to accept it as normal in Glasgow that anti-catholic bigotry is freely displayed on our streets. There’s nothing normal about it at all. They call themselves Loyalists but they are not loyal to the rule of law or to standards of common decency. The only thing that they are loyal to is what they perceive as their absolute right to impose themselves on the rest of us. And that is British nationalism in a nutshell. British nationalists in Scotland rail against the “divisiveness” of another independence referendum but turn a blind eye to the sectarian divisions fostered by some of their own supporters.

NEW MODERATION POLICY

In the wake of recent events I am determined that this site will not become a home for bigots and conspiracy theorists. They will not be welcome here. Moderation is the most stressful part of running a blog, but this site is going to continue to make the positive case for independence. With this in mind as of today a new moderation policy is in force.

Anyone who attempts to use this site to post hatred, bigotry, or conspiracy theories will be banned. If you attempt to insult and abuse anyone you will be banned. This site has a zero-toleration policy for homophobia, transphobia, racism, and misogyny. Failure to respect this will result in a ban.

If you intend to spend the next four years undermining the SNP, the Scottish Government and the pro-independence parties that the great majority of independence supporters voted for, you can do so somewhere else, because you’re not going to do it here. The reminder that has regularly appeared on this site is not a serving suggestion. It will be rigorously enforced. If you don’t like this rule – there is a small x at the top right of your screen. Click it, close this page and go elsewhere.

This is your reminder that the purpose of this blog is to promote Scottish independence. If the comment you want to make will not assist with that goal then don’t post it. If you want to mouth off about how much you dislike the SNP leadership there are other forums where you can do that. You’re not welcome to do it here.

You can help to support this blog with a PayPal donation. Please log into Paypal.com and send a payment to the email address weegingerbook@yahoo.com. Or alternatively click the donate button. If you don’t have a PayPal account, just select “donate with card” after clicking the button.

Donate Button

187 comments on “The entitlement of British nationalism

  1. Duncan MacDonald says:

    Extremely well said Paul, but please watch your blood pressure.

  2. robbie kerr says:

    I have recently sufffered a stroke [and pulmonary embolism]. I don’t know if I will ever fully recover physically. I want you to know that your writings about your own experiences were a big help to me mentally. Hoping we both continue to recover….

  3. […] Wee Ginger Dug The entitlement of British nationalism For the second time in the space of a few months, the centre of Scotland’s largest […]

  4. bringiton says:

    Ranger FC appear to be either unable or unwilling to try and control the behaviour of their supporters.
    So,someone else is going to have to take action.
    They paid no attention to what was said after their previous outing to George Square so there is no expectation that,without meaningfull sanctions,they won’t do it again and again.
    Just saying to these people that their behaviour is a disgrace has no impact whatsoever,in fact quite the opposite,they seem to regard that as a badge of honour.
    SFA need to act,decisively.

    • grizebard says:

      Amen!

    • The sad fact is that there is money in OF hatred and this phoney religious rivalry has sucked support from most local teams and transferred it to the OF. The big tv companies will only pay big money for the OF freak show and the SPFL/SFA will do anything to keep it even bend their own rules. We saw that when they tried against their own rules to force the new Rangers into the top flight and their failure to strip Rangers of titles they gained while breaking registration rules continually over several years. The football authorities will do nothing, indeed their “show racism the red card” campaign will remain a sick joke while their fans (apart from this Covid year) sing the Famine Song and “We hate Catholics” round the grounds of Scotland each season. Only the politicians can change this and they don’t seem in much of a hurry.

  5. James Mills says:

    Sectarianism ( racism by any other name ) has been accepted , if not encouraged by some , in Scotland for too long .
    Growing up in Glasgow one accepted that numerous times in the year , for the most spurious of reasons , men and women ( and their kids ) would march through the streets , escorted by the police , and demonstrate their hatred of Catholicism and their own , in their eyes , superiority .

    For decades this was accepted and , when recently challenged by stricter control of these marches , apologists appeared bemoaning the ”attacks” on their culture .
    Then the Whitabootery argument was used : ” Whit aboot the republican marches – they’re just as bad .”
    Yes there is a small element of this but they are dwarfed by the number of Orange Parades that taint out society .

    If you live in the West of Scotland particularly I am certain that most citizens will have been exposed to the Orange Parades that have disturbed and , in too many cases , distressed our everyday lives : blocking streets , holding up traffic and bringing hordes of unsavoury followers flooding our pavements and generally creating a fearful atmosphere to those unfortunate enough to be caught up in their ‘celebrations’

    Time caught up with the neanderthals – time for this tribe to be gone too !

  6. Bob Lamont says:

    Superb, absolutely nailed what 99% of Scots think…
    I was reminded on another forum of the other James Kelly crowing about dumping the Football sectarian hooligan legislation, perhaps the new SG might revisit that and send him a personalised copy….

  7. Hamish100 says:

    ….agree Paul but SFA and the old firm equates to double standards. Theirs and everybody else.
    I now think a previous poster got it right. They should have been allowed into Ibrox so they could trash, break windows, urinate and worse within those confines. … and when they decided to go home they were each fined for breaking COVID restrictions, names taken to be banned from Ibrox for life and for the worst offenders arrested and jailed if appropriate.

    Funny I can’t imagined mask wearing Rangers supporters who complied with the rules turning up to support their brethren to get them released rather, I am sure they would rightly condemn them for spoiling what should have been a good memory for them.

    Rangers is becoming a toxic brand.

    • Mrs Sheryl Hepworth says:

      Oh how much I agree with your comment!! Until a hard line is taken with these thugs nothing will improve. I, myself have no specific love for the ”beautiful game”? I was born in Manchester so saw similar but not as bad behaviour between City & United, never understood it then and still don’t!! I think Manchester grew up and educated folk but looking at the intelligence exhibited by the riot on Saturday I don’t hold much hope in improvements in Glasgow! I love Glasgow’s vibrancy and humour and history but until these people are stopped I cry for the city.

  8. Old Pete says:

    Excellent Paul totally agree with you.
    I remember when I used to go regularly to watch Ayr United when Ally MacLeod was the Manager and they were in the Premier league. The Rangers fans were called “the Huns”, Saturday’s antics really confirm how vile a large section of their core fans are and “the Huns”
    is a very apt name for these disgusting UK anti-Scottish scum.

  9. andyfromdunning says:

    Dye stained water from a water cannon is needed at riots like this. Dye that will not wash off for a few weeks so that those that participate can be found more easily and punished by fines plus ridicule from law abiding members of the public.

  10. Capella says:

    I was brought up in the North East of Scotland. I had never seen an Orange march until I moved to Edinburgh in my 20s.
    There were Catholic children at our mixed school and they were excused attendance at the weekly morning service (which the rest of us were deeply envious about). There are no “Catholic” and “Protestant” football teams in the North East AFAIK.

    Whoever becomes Sports Minister will have to wade into this mess, along with the Justice Minister, and force Rangers Football Board to take responsibility for the behaviour of their members. A long ban would be a start. Surely the SFA has a code of conduct. Any club breaking the rules so publicly should be expelled.

    • Ken Mc says:

      I’ve a similar story. Born and raised in Aberdeen, realised fairly early on I found football utterly dreary.
      Moved to Edinburgh ’92 but it wasn’t till I moved to West Lothian in ’97 that I saw an Orange March. Then I fully realised the sheer amount of sectarian division that exists, sadly I think this stain will always be present.

    • grizebard says:

      Likewise here. When I first came to Glasgow I thought these things were some kind of absurdist pantomime, worthy only of public ridicule, but eventually realised that the people involved can’t be so easily dismissed, unfortunately. I suspect a leavening of hidden support in positions of influence, including the media (or their advertisers, which is near enough the same thing) and the Labour Party, which until late has managed to successfully face both ways.

      But this kind of destructive public demonstration of entitlement in the face of all the sacrifice the rest of us have been having to make for more than a year now during this crisis is a right slap on the face for all of us, and just can’t be left unaddressed. However it’s done, examples have to be made, both in the football sphere and in the wider public sphere.

  11. Alex Clark says:

    Helen Martin writing just now in the Scotsman doesn’t hold back. I read the headline wrong and not the way it was meant, which is easily done considering this is the Scotsman.

    “Hatred of fake Rangers fans must be curbed – Helen Martin”

    https://archive.ph/OpNTw

    • stewartb says:

      What a very odd choice of headline to place above this article!!

      Also it contains some notable remarks e.g.: ” … they are giving the impression (if not a vow) of threatening the majority of the country who voted against Brexit, who want to leave the UK and rejoin the EU. Unionist politicians don’t physically fight, but Unionist, sectarian Rangers could.”

    • grizebard says:

      Some of these morons may well be fake fans, but all of them? How does she know?

      Mind you, despite the predictable Unionist attempts at associating all of us with their unique vileness, my guess is that this kind of thing is essentially damaging to Unionism. Hence the loud silence from the Tories, who thanks to the likes of Murdo, are very closely aligned with this team and its support. The political arm of the movement is embarrassed.

      • Alex Clark says:

        I think almost all ordinary Unionists would be appalled by the behaviour witnessed at the weekend just as almost all supporters of Independence would. The Tories know this so have shut up in the hope they won’t be associated with it.

      • James Mills says:

        Murdo Fraser ”embarrassed” ? I doubt that .

        He has a typical Tory/Unionist/orange brass neck and can’t be marked with a blow torch .

        A man who has stood umpteen times for Holyrood , been rejected on EVERY occasion , does not have the wherewithal to feel embarrassed .

        • grizebard says:

          I recognise what you mean, personally speaking. I was more intending though in the political sense that he can see that these arrogant demonstrations of Union Rag brandishing and hooligan trashing attracts public disapproval and thus potentially collaterally damages the Tory/BritNat cause. Highlights the dissonance between Tory “lauranorder” high-horse posturing and the unpleasant revelation of what their “staunch” fellow travellers are really about.

      • ArtyHetty says:

        I suspect the BritNats will be hoping the sectarian thugs’ violence on the streets of Glasgow will reflect badly on Scotland, and the Scottish government, rather than the British Nationalism that it is. Those outwith Scotland, mostly, will see it as a Scottish societal problem, a section of which are out of control. Very easy for a government to sow division in another country in order to take (back!)control the Brit state being experts.
        What is truly sickening here is the deliberate disregard for others safety. Covid is deadly as we all know, large gatherings with no masks and no distancing are super spreaders. Some of the thugs will have travelled into the city which means they are potentially taking another, very transmissible deadly variant of the virus back to wherever they came from.

        Stay safe everyone, wear your masks. We could be headed for another spike soon, unfortunately.

    • Petra says:

      Excellent article, Alex.

      ..”They are not all from Glasgow, of course. A reasonable percentage are from Northern Ireland, taking part in Orange walks and supporting the Protestant paramilitaries. That’s not because they are worshipping members of a Protestant church, it’s because they hate and are at war with Catholics.”..

      • grizebard says:

        Since they haven’t a clue about religion, and don’t participate, I doubt if they know anything about why they hate people of another denomination. They might as well have chosen to hate people (say) with blonde hair, for all the difference it would make. Anything to reinforce their malajusted responses to their own feelings of inadequacy.

  12. Pat Hackett says:

    Absolutely spot on.
    We saw two very different mass gatherings in the streets of Glasgow.
    One defending people living in the community that made us proud and one depicting hatred and divisevness that is comfortable with unionism

  13. Arthur Thomson says:

    A good read Alex. She is close to the mark but misses the salient point, that Rangers FC is a private company that is failing to deal with its toxic waste. Rangers should not be participating in any European competitions for the next two seasons and further sanctions should be applied as necessary in future. That would put a stop to the owners of the club profiting without cleaning up their mess. The statement Rangers put out in response to this “abomination not celebration” was mealy mouthed nonsense.

  14. Andrew says:

    Can you please elaborate on your new moderation policy? Three things:
    1. How do you define transphobia? I find it a minefield and would appreciate guidance on how to avoid trouble.
    2. Why not misandry in your list of taboo subjects.? There is a lot of it about too.
    3. Does “undermining the Scottish government” mean no criticism of it even when they are not getting on with preparing the case for independence?

    • grizebard says:

      This site is primarily intended to promote independence, so why are you so almighty concerned instead by this kind of inane nit-picking? Do you really not have anything more important to focus upon?

      (Already missing your favourite cess pit, maybe?)

      • Andrew says:

        Grizebard, I have been trying to promote Scottish independence for 50 years and dearly want to see it happen before it is too late for me. The SNP man who is supposed to be doing preparaory work was recently asked what he was doing and replied that he was too busy dealing with Covid to do indy work. Why can’t the SNP team do both and why don’t they make much more use of the wider Yes movement where much work has been done?
        As to my other points, I genuinely wanted guidance from Paul for it is terribly easy unintentionally to offend someone, somewhere, as your response has shown.

        • Capella says:

          Hi Andrew – I appreciate your impatience, we all want independence as soon as possible. But it is less than two weeks since a very successful election and neither the new cabinet, nor the new FM has been sworn in.

          Of course, we can’t campaign during a deadly epidemic. The unionists have the media we have the streets. Once we can get out and campaign we will do so. If we all abide by the health advice it will be quite soon.

          Paul has asked us to avoid being abusive. I think that is quite clear enough. Yes we can disagree about policies and politicians. I think Murdo Fraser has been particularly offensive this week. But let’s keep it civil. That way we are more likely to persuade soft NOs to come over to YES, which is what we all want.

        • grizebard says:

          There is a limit on what can be done right now, and for very obvious reasons, as Capella says. We are all – every single one of us – impatient, but we are also obliged to be realists. Personally, rather like you, I would like the SG to create an “Indy Unit” which would be tasked with working on the specifics of making progress on essential matters that must be addressed, irrespective of what more pressing matters the rest of government will be having to tackle. (But for all I know, that is already being done on the Q/T.)

          None of which, though, has anything to do with the specific points you first raised. On that score, all that is necessary to know for present purposes is that we must be able to continue to debate matters of mutual concern with each other in a manner that will effectively promote what we all believe in, and not indulge in self-destructive behaviour that only gives succour to our enemies, nor sink into bitter and disrespectful mutual bickering over peripheral issues that – clearly from the recent election – are of no concern whatever to those whom we must now convert before we can hope to win when the necessary showdown comes.

          It’s just normal discussion, as it customarily has been here. What’s more to understand than that?

          • iusedtobeenglish says:

            This may be the wrong place to post this. If it is, Paul, please accept my apologies and remove it. No offence is meant. I hope this Indy Unit is going to include people like me, as well as SNP and, as Andrew suggests, the wider YES Movement.

            Until comparatively recently, I was what you’ve called a soft No, and I think of as a YESbut. My heart said yes, but my head asked how it was to be paid for. For the removal of doubt, though, I am now totally convinced that removing ourselves from WM rule is the only way to go (as is my formerly committed NO son).

            I’ve read an awful lot about The Union recently. NS has spoken about dissolving it; the tories about saving it. The YES movement about there being no positive case for it. It’s been making my brain itch. And I’ve realised why through the oddest combination of Mhairi Black (if we weren’t in it, why would we join it?) and Gordon Brown it should continue because people know it’s Better Together. (Though what is better and for whom are unspecified).

            My brain stopped itching when I realised that what confuses YESbuts, like I was, or ‘Erms’, like most undecideds are, is the term THE Union. For many, the choice isn’t Union or not? It’s which one, because there are at least 2.

            1) Union of ‘Peoples’
            BritNats have a point here. From Shetland to the Scilly Isles, we all live on the same archipelago. We’re united by geography, historical events (even if the interpretation’s different!), centuries of inter-breeding etc. To me, someone Scots (or English) saying “I don’t identify as British” is as mystifying as a Frenchman saying “I don’t identify as European”. People don’t want to see this unity threatened. Scots grandparents want to see their grandchildren in England etc.

            2) Political Union
            What the YookNats insist stays and pro-Indy insist has to go. Save this ‘Union’? Does it even exist, except as a few pieces of paper?
            Scotland’s SNP, Wales Labour, England Tory and NI doesn’t even have the same political parties! SNP (quite rightly) “bangs on” about Scotland, but it isn’t fair to any of the 4 nations. It’s even untenable at UK level, as Brexit highlighted. Should an English MP for a Leave constituency vote Leave/Remain according to the views of the people they represented if they believed it would damage the UK?

            Mhairi Black questioned if THIS Union would be attractive join. Gordon Brown suggests Federation (again!). YES lost last time because of promises about EU and The Vow {raises hand}. 62% of Scotland voted to Remain in the EU. Seems to me we LIKE unions – just not THIS one.

            Personally, I’d like to see a (currently-called) UK which realises what mainland Europe did decades ago. A geographically connected, politically different unit has to co-operate with its neighbours, sharing the good things like trade, skills, culture, security, travel etc. Help each other out where necessary and join together for major projects like infrastructure, climate control etc. But with politically autonomy. Something like the EEC. We could call it the BEC – British Economic Community…

            As I said, no offence meant. If this isn’t the right forum for this sort of conversation, could anyone point me to one that is please?

            • grizebard says:

              Your point about two different unions, personal and political, is a fair one. We saw the legitimate concern about the first of these being exploited by the likes of Margit Curran and her “families put asunder” scaremongering, whereas we here rather take it for granted – though maybe that should be made crystal clear to the doubters – that the British isles should and would remain an open travel area, just as it was – and still is – with the Irish.

              Due to our history, even recent post WW2, many families here have members (cousins, etc.) in the Scottish diaspora, so this isn’t even a local British issue for us, and the thought that one new border should make contact impossible seems faintly absurd. But any residual concern can be played, as indeed it was.

              As to your other point, we could already have had some kind of genuine internal market that actually meant what it said, along with a lot of other matters of mutually agreed autonomy with shared interests, but that enticing prospect has always foundered on the utter intransigence of the supporters of a unitary state. (A unitary state which has actually never existed except in their imagination.) A more equal and balanced arrangement should rightly have evolved in typical British fashion over time, and perhaps the main reason it didn’t – ironically enough – was because of the appearance post WW2 of the top-down Labourite welfare state. (Arguably it is the slow English dismantlement of this social compact which underpins the current situation.)

              The situation could have been rescued even at a very late stage by the Smith Commission, which had a marvellous opportunity to grasp the necessity for a recalibration, and plan a way forward that might have given you the kind of thing you are asking, but the precious opportunity was totally squandered in a toxic mix of bureaucratic small-mindedness and barely-disguised Unionist political triumphalism and arrogance. Many of us made representations to that body of possible positive ways forward that might as well never have been written, disappearing as they did into a giant paper shredder.

              No, the inescapable conclusion is that Scotland must now wrench itself away politically from its ever-dominant neighbour in order to escape the unitary state stranglehold, not least from those here at home who cling desperately and hopelessly to an outdated shibboleth which now has nothing positive to offer. Only by doing so can we shatter this political fossilism and progress.

              What happens after this essential realignment in terms of trading arrangements remains to be seen, but I expect that when reality finally dawns, something satisfactory will be worked out, assuming the current administration in England can get past its own erroneous isolationism and insecure bluster. But we can’t afford to wait for that to be clarified, because if we don’t decisively break out on our own, it never will. That’s the fundamental truth of the matter.

              • … just caught up with this this superb contribution, grizebard.

                The content and penman(sic)ship perfectly reflects the spirit and ethos of Paul’s refreshed Moderation policy.

                I’ll need to up my game, edit more, and be less irascible in future.

                More please.
                Cheers, Jack C.

              • Bob Lamont says:

                Superbly put

  15. Izzie says:

    Maybe we should demand an end to Bonfire night November 5th as it celebrates the death of Catholics. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

    • Capella says:

      It’s an ancient Celtic Festival Izzie, called Samhain. We can celebrate the end of harvest and the beginning of winter with a nice big bonfire.

  16. Sarah Mackintosh says:

    Well said! I am sick of it. At 64 I had hoped that the type of attitude that led to me being spat at in the street in my primary school uniform would have been eradicated, but it appears not.

    I hope that you and your husband have settled in your new home and that your health is improving. Take care, people like you are needed in the Scotland we hope to become.

    Sarah Mackintosh

  17. yesindyref2 says:

    I feel bound to quote the author on this article:

    This is your reminder that the purpose of this blog is to promote Scottish independence. If the comment you want to make will not assist with that goal then don’t post it.

  18. Del G says:

    Groups like the Union Bears put up posts on facebook encouraging fans to meet near Ibrox and walk to George Square. Probably not the only group, but theirs were the ones I saw prior to Rangers winning the last match.
    So surely it’s Union Bears and groups like them to have the greatest responsibility? Surely it’s their leaders the police should pursue? Surely groups like these should be banned completely?
    Remember OFBA and James Kelly’s successful efforts to repeal it? Hang your head, Mr Kelly.

  19. Hamish100 says:

    Ban the old firm.
    Support Patrick Thistle or Queens Park. Sorry Clyde you are a Cumbernauldian!

    I await James Kelly and Murdoch Fraser to unite and condemn without fear or favour not a saltire 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿between them

    ……. the SNP… lol

  20. Hugh Carter says:

    This article hits the mark perfectly. As a football fan, but not of either of the Glasgow “big two” I am constantly depressed at the way they manipulate society and the footballing governing bodies. Until the footballing authorities or even our government act and impose sanctions we will be forever blighted with these depressing problems. I would however take issue with your comments on the police and their reaction. They have been charged with a softly, softly and observational role and going in heavy handed with drunken yobs would not endear them to the general public I fear.

  21. Andy Lawrence says:

    Speaking for every decent Scots man and woman !

  22. UncleBob says:

    This is not about football, is it?
    Seems to me it’s about religion and hatred. Will stopping football make that go away? Do they just use football as a cover for there real intent?

    Growing up on the east coast of Scotland I did not witness much of this. I did see Orange Walks in Edinburgh. Try crossing the road as one of them march past!

    • Psychologists talk about reinforcement. It’s why folk tell racist jokes, a way of racists encouraging each other and deflecting from society’s general condemnation. Ibrox works like that. Bringing together bigots in large numbers so they feel strength in numbers and when they chant their hatred the bigotry is reinforced. As a strong club that beats most other teams they get a sense of worth, a feeling of being in the right despite what others think. This is reinforced by the authorities weakness towards them. I have a word for Rangers supporters who say they are not like that. It’s just the fanatics. What have you ever done to challenge it?

  23. robert alexander harrison says:

    Ive seen this so many times when i lived in England people using fitba as a means to be bigots and rascists. like one persons banner in kenmure street stated if this is team uk we reject it this is the dirty underbelly ive been talking about showing its face and all conservatives want to do is pretend its not there.

  24. Petra says:

    Good name? They must be joking 🙄.

    ‘Rangers break silence on Glasgow carnage as club condemns ‘unacceptable scenes’.’

    ..”Some of the scenes were unacceptable and have besmirched the good name of Rangers Football Club.” ..

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/19307940.rangers-break-silence-glasgow-carnage-club-condemns-unacceptable-scenes/

    …………………………

    ‘Rangers FC officially responds to video of players ‘using sectarian language’.’

    ..”A Police Scotland statement released earlier said: “We are aware of a video circulating on social media apparently showing Rangers players using sectarian language while celebrating on Saturday. We are assessing its contents and will liaise with the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service as part of our inquiries.”..

    ..”A statement released by the Show Racism the Red Card campaign said that it had been sent “hundreds of videos since Saturday containing hateful and racist language aimed at Scotland’s Irish Catholic communities”.”..

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/19309226.rangers-fc-officially-responds-video-players-using-sectarian-language/

  25. Angus MacC says:

    Would be better to put them in the English leagues and let them pay for the clean up. Coming from the North east of Scotland, I’ve never understood sectarianism, but I’m pretty sure it has something to do with divide and rule?
    I support a league one team, Montrose fc, or the DynaMo, which nobody hates, except for the Smokies, Arbroath fc, they don’t like us, but then we don’t like them much either 😂 I work with a lot of Aberdeen fans and their feelings towards Rangers fans aren’t the best, they don’t mind the Celtic fans so much.
    If I was a Rangers director, or a LabServative MSP, I would be embarrassed, because it makes their club and their “union” look rotten.

    • Alex Montrose says:

      aye wi Stuart Petrie at the helm were on the up, what a record he’s got since arriving at Links Park. C’mon ye Mo.

  26. Capella says:

    Since I know nothing about football I feel fully qualified to have an opinion. I believe the antagonism between catholic and protestant in the Central belt goes back to the aftermath of 1745 and the Highland Clearances. For decades, the British Army and the land owners cleared thousands of Highlanders from their homes turning them into landless vagabonds forced to go south to find work or to emigrate. It so happened that those same land owners were building factories in Glasgow and Edinburgh and needed cheap labour. A happy co-incidence?

    Most of the Highlanders were Gaelic speaking catholics. Most of the lowlanders were staunch protestants. As in Northern Ireland, feuding between the two groups, aided by the British state, has helped to keep communities divided ever since.

    In Ireland a group called the United Irishmen helped to overcome the divide and foster a united front against British colonialism. This was not welcomed in Westminster as you can imagine. Stirring up sectarian hatred is stock in trade of the British State.

    We can be better than this.

    • Alex Clark says:

      It goes back further than that and is related to King William of Orange taking over as King of England and Scotland in 1689. The deposed Catholic Stuart King James II fled to France before raising an army where he went to Ireland where he had considerable support to take on the English based there.

      James II had hoped that to use Ireland as a springboard from which to take the crown back from William of Orange in England but King William invaded Ireland and defeated the Stuart King.

      Scottish protestants were then encouraged to move to Ireland where they were given land and positions of power working for the state and landowners. I’m no historian but that battle between the two religions over 300 years ago is at the heart of what we still see now in Scotland and what we call sectarianism.

      • grizebard says:

        Though somewhat inconveniently for the (typically ignorant) bigots, in the wider European scheme of things, it was William of Orange not James VII (of Scotland, II of England) who had the Pope’s support in that conflict.

        • Alex Clark says:

          Good point about James VII of Scotland, I did warn that I was no historian LOL

        • iusedtobeenglish says:

          I thought it went back further than that even. Did Henry VIII not start it by being declare King of Ireland with successive Tudor monarchs and James I/VI fanning the flames?

          Didn’t know William of Orange had the Pope’s support. Interesting…

          • grizebard says:

            There was a “bigger picture” European dimension. As there always has been, and always will be, whatever some blinkered islanders on the fringe (geographically and metaphorically) might wish. {grin}

  27. Capella says:

    Another current example of sectarian hatred created by the divisiveness of the British State is Palestine. Thousands have died as a direct consequence of Britain dividing the country along sectarian and ethnic lines.

    Iraq and Iran.

    Before that was India and Pakistan / Bangladesh. Another British sectarian divide.

    Nigeria – Ibos and Biafrans – an ethnic divide this time.
    South Africa.

    Sri Lanka – the British imported Tamils from South India to administer the colony. Another ethnic divide which cost thousands of lives.

    Kenya, Malaya, Burma – you name it, Britain divided it and set people at each others’ throats.

    What a legacy.

    • grizebard says:

      Well, arguably much of that pre-existed – for better and worse, humans being inherently tribal – but the British State was undoubtedly the master of feeding off it, and also conveniently fostering it when it suited.

  28. yesindyref2 says:

    There are many problems with this article, all arising from its one-sided nature – and attempts to equate the weekend riot of so-called football supporters with “British Nationalism”. And as well as its divisive nature it has NOTHING to do with Independence.

    Remember a couple of years or so back when Wings started on the GRA “crusade” which then degenerated into an anti-SNP, anti-Sturgeon and ultimately destructive path of being nothing at all about Independence? It was a relatively mild article to which I posted “Wake me up when we get back to talking about Independence”, and promptly got blocked without even the courtesy of being banned. It would be a shame if this blog went a similar dark route to Hades.

    Meanwhile, having lived in Edinburgh for a time many years back and having to avoid the likes of Haymarket and the area around the Diggers when there was a derby down the road, here’s this which shows that even now, football drink and hooliganism was not and is NOT just a west coast problem:

    https://www.sundaypost.com/sport/cup-shame-hibs-fans-euphoria-turns-trouble/

    and for those with some amount of non-selective memory and an interest in some balance, there’s this:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-55125191

    Wake me up when we get back to talking about Independence.

    Over and out.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Well, I think some politicians of a Unionist persuasion did try and turn it into a debate about Independence.

      “It was notable that those Conservative politicians who had been quick to condemn last week’s protest against the Home Office raid in Kenmure Street were silent when it came to speaking out against the Union flag bedecked yob violence which scarred Glasgow at the weekend. However the day before the violence the Tory MSP Murdo Fraser sought to draw a false equivalence between the Pollokshields protest and the anticipated “celebration” due that weekend. This was crass even by Murdo’s standards.”

      Fraser saw the actions of Scots trying to halt the legitimate right of Immigration Enforcement officers to arrest people in Glasgow as being carried out by opponents of Westminster rule rather than just neighbours of those being arrested.

      This is what he tweeted.

      “I hope all Rangers fans will celebrate responsibly tomorrow, esp given the spike in Glasgow Covid cases. Sadly I fear such calls are undermined by some politicians actively encouraging street protests yesterday. Can’t be one rule for some and another for others.”

      He was not alone in these thoughts and that is how I have read this article, it’s about double standards and the hypocrisy of Unionist politicians.

      • Can hardly claim it’s not about unionism when that is a key element of the culture of these people, hence union jacks and Rule Britannia songs. Of course it’s other elements are bigotry and arrogant entitlement.

    • Capella says:

      So thousands of lager louts, many bused in from NI, draped in Union Jacks and setting off red, white and blue flares, stomping around in George Square (who’s George ?) have nothing to do with British Nationalism?

      Scottish Independence has nothing to do with British nationalism?

      Ummm – I think that’ll need a bit of explaining – later.

    • grizebard says:

      Saying that the prime purpose of this site is to promote independence is hardly the same as shutting people like you out elsewhere for saying exactly that! So I can’t see the equivalence you seem to be positing here.

      One might add that unfortunately these days there is hardly a subject that hasn’t been turned into a proxy issue over independence, and not least by those who oppose it.

      Even so, having a rowdy mob rampage through the centre of a city still very much in the throes of the current virus crisis while waving many big Union Rags does tend to create connections in anyone’s mind that are hard to discount, try as you might. When the law’n’order merchants are conspicuously silent on the matter, while simultaneously falsely criticising the SG for “failure” over its handling of the crisis, they are obviously making the same connections themselves, and by their silence and whitabooterie are hoping nobody else notices the ever-close association about which they are very proud to trumpet in other circumstances.

    • Drew Anderson says:

      Aw diddums, somebody say bad things aboot Rangers? Toys oot the pram again, just like your ridiculous overreaction to Clapper’s post a while back.

      Much as you’re keen on posting a link showing Hibs fans in a bad light, it’s very selective; it doesn’t mention that there were plenty of Rangers fans arrested in the aftermath.

      In fact outside of the idiots ripping up turf and trashing of goalposts (which I’m an apologist for) most of the arrests for serious offences were Rangers fans who hung about looking for bother. It’s clear from your choice of link, you’d prefer the casual observer to think otherwise.

      Also trying to equate Edinburgh derbies with the Old Firm one for trouble is just pathetic. More often than not there’s no trouble. When the aggro does rear it’s ugly head, it’s on nothing like the scale of the Glasgow hatefest.

      If Glasgow Rangers FC means so much to you (you’re certainly very touchy about it), why aren’t you calling out the idiots who’ve trashed George Square twice in 10 weeks? Why deflect?

  29. Alex Clark says:

    I’d go further and argue that it would be difficult to talk about any issue at all without it being relevant to Independence.

    Think renewables, welfare, social care, immigration, tax rates, poverty, defence, broadcasting ect, and sectarianism. Maybe even especially sectarianism because of the close bond between those that believe support of a football team means support for the Union and the monarchy are all the same thing.

    I can’t think of anything right now that might not be viewed in a different light if Scotland was to become an independent country. We might even wipe the slate clean and start again.

  30. fergusgreen says:

    I believe there is a video going around showing some Rangers players singing sectarian songs after the match.

    Don’t expect the SFA to take any action, but UEFA might jut do something.

    They have a reasonable track record on punishing clubs for racist behavior.

    This has implications for Rangers in the Champions League and maybe this will finally drive the message home.

  31. gullaneno4 says:

    I think that video has been doctored, surely even football players would not be that stupid.
    It needs to be checked out before further comment.

    We also need to be careful not to tar every Rangers fan with the same brush
    Many were quite disgusted by the actions by some of their own fans, They now need to step up and ensure this does not happen again.

  32. Bruce MacDougall says:

    My extended family had connections to Rangers before WWII. My father had a tryout as a goalie for them just before WWII. I’m afraid to say there’s only two ways forward: Relegation or Dissolution of the Club. When no action is taken at games to curb the sectarian songs and rhetoric, then the Rangers management is responsible, it’s their failure to take ownership that’s lead to this thuggery.

    • Bruce, and others, I’ve had my say on all of this in earlier posts.

      It is a nonsense to suggest that Kamara, or Morelos, or any of the RFC players, the RfC lads, who quite incredibly now, automatically almost, bless themselves as they run on to the pitch, joined in the quite mooted ‘F@&k the Pope’ chant during the rendition of Sweet Caroline in the post game knees up.
      I wonder what Neil Diamond thinks of his song being re-engineered as a sectarian anthem?

      I doubt that the footage was doctored, but what concerns me, is not for the anti Catholic chants, but that these young men, and let’s not forget that they are mostly young men, who lead cosseted lives, and were not raised in this poisonous community, felt that it was ok to party in the full knowledge that there was a full scale riot going on outside, as the zombies who idolise rampaged through the City, destroying everything in their path, assaulting fellow citizens, attacking our police, and fusing into an insane hate filled mob, defying any form of decent law abiding challenge, and laughing and revelling in their hellish evil triumphalism.

      The footballers knew that it was mayhem beyond the marble staircase of Ibrox.
      Yet they got the beers out, a DJ blasted the tunes out, and they broke very Covid rule in the book. presumably the lads who were caught partying in the West End were there, despite vowing to never be silly Covid breaking boys ever again.
      One of them is being touted to join the Scotland squad next month.
      I don’t think so.

      The only way to stop all of this is to hit RFC (and Celtic, Hibs, whoever) is to hit them in the pocket.
      If the SFA won’t do it, why don’t we petition EUFA, to circumvent the ‘Boys’ at Hampden?

      Close the sections of the grounds which house the ‘small minority’ of 20,000 fans, sorry psycho hooligans, for say 10 games next season, as a punishment for this latest outrage.

      To those arrested and found guilty, print their names and photies on page one of the Blahs, and impose a life time ban on attendance at any SFA football match.

      I note the ‘whatabootery’ squirming posts of the closet RFC Duggers above.
      I am dealing in the here and now, and addressing the disgusting scenes of the past few days, and point to the the hand wringing toss spouted by the Old Guard, from Graham Spiers to Kevin McKenna, who are excusing it, explaining it away as the product institutionalised poverty and parental brainwashing, with a sigh and muted regret.

      So I lock and bar my doors, and the wealthy young Rangers players hold a party and get boozed up while all hell breaks loose?
      What planet do they live on?

      Enough from me.

      • Petra says:

        Well said. 100% backing from me too, Jack.

      • Melb Don says:

        Easy solution to all of this, the media should promote more of Glasgow teams that are not sectarian. Oops that is only my wonderful team, Partick Thistle whom I have followed for near on 70 years now. From Raglan St to Priesthill Rd and now in Victoria.

  33. mr charles m m mair says:

    You have my backing 100% I am disgusted by things I read on other blog sites I now just don’t visit them, If anyone out in the blogosphere thinks we will get Independence without the SNP then they are delusional,.

  34. JoMax says:

    Wasn’t there action taken some years ago in England and on the Continent (the Dutch, for example had major problems with some fans) when national Governments and football authorities in conjunction with clubs themselves set out to deal with thuggery and serious fan trouble by monitoring who attended matches and handed down life bans to fans who were known to be trouble makers. There was a determined effort to clamp down on the problem and it seemed to work.

    This needs to be done by the SFA and Rangers in particular but working with all clubs, overseen by the Scottish Govt and requiring the co-operation of the unionists for once to make sure it works. Stoking the fire by some of these ‘political’ idiots who seem to get themselves into Holyrood for one purpose and one purpose only, not as grown up opposition to the Government of the day, but to undermine the SNP and besmirch their own country on behalf of another, is beyond the pale and should be condemned. That, of course, is the job of the media, but then we know whose side they’re on.

  35. Capella says:

    Rangers appoint senior Orange Order figure as their new head of communications
    Belfast-based David Graham, a lifelong Gers fan, will replace Jim Traynor in the top PR job at Ibrox

    I still don’t know anything about football but this does seem outrageous. https://twitter.com/BjCruickshank/status/1394418553885966339?s=20

    • Well spotted , Capella.
      My tiresome rage of the past few days; the Powers That Be are throwing petrol on the flames. There’s money to be made, and a country to destabilise. Two birds with one Iron Hell Brit oligarchy stone.

      I think I’ll e mail Neild Diamond.. if they had chanted ‘Fuck Israel’, do you think nothing would have happened?

      I will not rest until we have rid our land of this wicked organised, sponsored, bigotry, racism, sectarianism, and naked mob brutality.

      Hit them in the pockets, as the first in a series of moves to drive this evil from our land.
      Deduct points even before the season begins.

    • Petra says:

      That’s handy, for the BritNats, don’t you think in the run up to Indyref2? David ”No Surrender” Graham, DUP councillor, member of the Royal Black Preceptory (where will he be on the last Saturday in August) based in Belfast with links to Loyalist paramilitary groups, such as Ulster Resistance, is now RFC Head of Communication and media relations. Seemingly a newly created role. There’s a story there for an investigative journalist starting with who exactly controls RFC Board of Directors?

  36. Capella says:

    Brilliant video from Greenpeace about UK plastic waste. Laura Slater will be on to it after today (if that isn’t too much of a diversion from independence although we need our own solution here in Scotland because we can’t escape the mountain of plastic produced elsewhere).

  37. yesindyref2 says:

    I was going to leave this alone and hope people would follow the clues, but they still don’t get it. The “one-sidedness of this article” comment was mostly prompted by this:

    We have come to accept it as normal in Glasgow that anti-catholic bigotry is freely displayed on our streets.

    had it also talked about anti-protestant bigotry, then it would have been balanced. You don’t fight sectarianism by being one-sided with criticism. There’s also no difference bewtween a horde of drunken violent Rangers supporters, drunken violent Celtic supporters, Hibs or Hearts – they are a dangerous pest, the whole lot of them.

    As for football itself, with a couple of people talking about “closet RFC” supporter, can – you – not – read – my – lips?

    I think all premier league players are vastly overpaid greedy brainless badly behaved prima donnas, someone kicks air 10 feet away from them and they fall to the ground clutching their knee and crying. As soon as the Specsaver bereft muppet blows his whistle for a penalty they jump up and run around crying that it’s not them taking the penalty and it’s not fair boo hoo. There are no local players in the team, they come from all over the world, so how they can be called Auchenshoogle United I have no idea.

    The only thing that’s a bit local about the premier league clubs is their changing of their strips as often as they can so as to extort as much money they can from parents who at times have to do without to save their kids being bullied at school by their OWN FELLOW “FANS”, shelling out £200 a time for the greedy clubs, overpaid prima donnas, totally uncaring managers and owners. I did used to go to Junior football matches years ago – knew a few of them, from a few teams. They were locals.

    What has triggered many of you, is the union jack. And the way people have of insulting NO voters by sticking stupid labels on them like “yoon”. Or “BritNat”. Way to go peeps, how to make friends and influence people, and persuade soft NOes to a YES; “You’re a flag-waving BritNat”. Yeah, right, that’ll make them change their minds. NOT.

    • Capella says:

      There is something particularly toxic about those Rangers fans IMO. I lived for some years off Gorgie Road in Edinburgh and, most Saturdays, the streets were packed with men heading for Tynecastle – a stones throw away, though I never saw a stone thrown nor any other trouble in all the time I lived there.

      My abiding memory is groups of wee boys jogging to Tyncastle chanting “Jam Tarts, Jam Tarts”. Charming wee lads.

      No sane parent would let a child anywhere near those Rangers supporters we saw this weekend. They may be loyalists – but their loyalty is not to us. I fully accept that most Rangers fans are perfectly decent people. So they will put a stop to the bigotry and violence.

    • grizebard says:

      I hate to intrude upon your private grief, because a lot of what you say is undeniably true about the not-so-beautiful game, but I’m finding it hard to picture the kind of person to whom your concern might reasonably apply. A lot of people right across the country have had to make considerable personal sacrifices during the last year, so how do you think they will look upon the mob gathering in George Square and react? Who do you think will be offended by criticism of that demonstration of selfish exceptionalism?

      Furthermore, there’s very few football clubs which have a segment of their support which not only behaves badly everywhere it goes, but does it by proudly flying the Union Rag as it does so. This is not ordinary football support, and besides ordinary people, I would like to hope there are also plenty of RFC supporters themselves who rightly view this kind of misbehaviour with distaste (even if they don’t seem to ever exert much peer pressure about it).

      So I’m sceptical that the kind of people you seem to fear being offended by criticism of this whole unseemly episode are ever going to be supporters of independence. On the contrary. So again, I can’t see who is being left behind here. On the contrary, it seems to me that it’s an opportunity to say to the proverbial “soft noes”, is this kind of residual festering dead-endery really the kind of company you want to keep?

    • Indyref2, you miss the point, some would argue, deliberately.

      The vast vast majority of the Scottish population of 5.4 million give or take, are not ‘anti catholic’, or ‘anti protestant’.

      We shall not be sucked in to ‘taking sides’, or, while condemning the most brutal mob anarchy in recent times ‘grudgingly’ admitting that the Taigs are as bad, so that’s all right then.

      There is no doubt at all that the RFC hordes who take to the streets and set out to frighten, bully and laugh at the citizens caught up in the melee, are ‘Loyalists’, and ‘Unionists’, and see the Union Flag as their rally point, as do the Hibernians when they march and rally ’round the Tricolour.

      But I refuse to be led up the ‘one is as bad as the other’ garden path any more.

      This week’s mob violence was coordinated, planned, and executed by clever men off camera, and was in no doubt a Brit Nat stunt, an anti Independence warning shot, the shape of things to come, if we dare vote Yes next time.

      It was as sinister as that, and the appointment of a Loyalist Ulster zealot nut job to RFC Board as Communications Something or Other needs no explanation..the message from Ibrox is, we are the true blue Prods…Listen to the tills ring!

      So spare me your injured pride.

      When and if the Green and White hordes take to the streets and smash memorial benches, shit in peoples’ front gardens and attack our hard pressed police and health staff. I’ll be on here telling them where to shove it.

      I have friends who are RFC diehards.

      Some of them voted YES and will again.

      They are in hiding right now, as perplexed as the rest of us.

      You may note over the past few days when I comment I don’t confine my rage to the Loyal Sons Of William…

      I choose not to try and coax a Butcher’s Apron waving Anglo Brit into voting Yes.

      That’s democracy.

      There are many who turn a blind eye to this gathering insanity.
      I am not one.

      Rangers should be punished for this…the only way to stop this mob taking to the streets and undermining our society, hit them in the pocket.

      I am really inconsolable on this.

      It has to stop..immediately.

    • Eilidh says:

      What anti Protestant bigotry are you referring to. I am protestant a long term member of the Church of Scotland and I know of no such thing. I have seen news reports of some Celtic supporters acting like tubes towards other football fans particularly Rangers ones and I have never understood what the IRA has got to do with Glasgow ever since I saw graffiti supporting that organisation there way back in the 1970s or why the Irish tricolour is adorned by some Crltic fans. What happened in Glasgow on Saturday had little to do with football was clearly politically motivated probably at least in part by loyalist factions in Northern Ireland and I know many Rangers fans are disgusted by it. You are well aware that Paul lived in Glasgow for many years so I am sure his thinking and writing is influenced by his ties to the city. I was born in Glasgow lived there for nearly 40 years worked there for many years as well and since leaving have lived no more than a mile away from the Glasgow boundary. Glasgow is my city and it always will be and I am horrified that a bunch of fascist neds were able to wreck the primary city square and a major cause of that was drunkeness and anti Catholic bigotry that was blatantly obvious from the photos and videos I saw and that behaviour should not allowed to happen again. One of my football supporting colleagues pointed out today that a lot of people in that crowd actually don’t actually attend the games they were there for a piss up and a rammy and that may be true. To be clear I am an equal opportunities hater of fitba apart from having a vague interest in the Partick Thistle score as dad was a supporter I could not care less about the game. The violence and bigotry on show on Saturday is not representative of modern day Glasgow of that I am sure but it may have influenced how outsiders regard the city

      • Petra says:

        ..”The violence and bigotry on show on Saturday is not representative of modern day Glasgow of that I am sure but it may have influenced how outsiders regard the city.”

        I’m from Glasgow originally too Eilidh and totally agree with you. The RFC fiasco in March and at the weekend was more akin to Northern Irish antics and they no doubt think that they’re going to up the ante next time around with the help of people like David Graham. We’ll have to put a stop to this, ASAP, one way or another.

    • Ahem , can you tell me when the Celtic did this in George Square or anywhere else in Glasgow when they won the league or won anything else ?
      Are you really trying to say that Rangers supporters behaviour was just the same as Celtic Hibs Hearts ?
      Surely not .
      ONLY Rangers have wrecked a city in this way and they have done it twice so i take issue with your view yesindyref2 this Rangers behaviour is no ordinary every day bad behaviour we see commonly from football supporters this was way way worse much more sinister and if you cant see that you have to rethink.

  38. Capella says:

    The Scottish Government is meeting today at 2.00 pm you can watch it online:
    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-may-18-2021

    14:00: Urgent Questions

    1. James Dornan:
    To ask the Scottish Government what engagement it has had with Police Scotland and Rangers FC regarding the reported COVID-19 regulation breaches, incidences of vandalism, violence and anti-Catholic bigotry in Glasgow city centre and at Ibrox Stadium on 15 May.

    The election of the First Minister should be announced later. Close race – Douglas Ross and Willie Rennie are challenging Nicola Sturgeon for the post. Labour will abstain – again.

    • Alex Clark says:

      I’ve read that she will also be making a statement on the Covid situation in Scotland over concern about rising cases in certain areas.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Urgent questions begin at 15:00 after the election of the FM.

      • Capella says:

        Thx Alex

      • grizebard says:

        Thanks also. I rather enjoyed the FM election part beforehand, not least Nicola’s gentle teasing of Wee Willie. Lorna Slater notably had an excellent debut, IMO, which is hardly surprising.

  39. WT says:

    I remember sitting on the number 7 bus in Calder street on the day of the Orange walk many moons ago. The driver turned the engine off and we waited and waited and waited. Over an hour we waited. That is how big the walk was then and how deeply the sectarianism ran in our society at that time. I remember when I was out on the day of the walk three years ago and I barely noticed it. A short delay to my journey. Indeed, the Orange order has seen it membership drop so much that walks have to be staggered across the country in order for them to have any impact. Two things about this: 1 it shows how much we have as a society we have moved away from this sectarian pride march; 2 it suggests that those still aligned with the Orange order are still deeply anti-catholic – small in number, big in hate. Its not the future that’s orange its the past.

    However, this was not an Orange walk this was a Rangers football club fans’ walk. This was not orange this was red white and blue. This was Unionist British nationalism. I have only seen a couple of pictures from this ‘event’ but there doesn’t seem to be a Saltire (not even a St. Patrick’s Saltire) present or a Lion rampant just masses of Union Flags and the occasional Ulster Banner (St. George’s Cross with Red hand on it). The march to George Square seems to mark the firming up of some fans as an ad hoc union army marching towards and encamping in Freedom Square due to the symbolic event of Glasgow being pro independence and the City Chambers turning SNP/YES.

  40. Of course sectarianisn should be condemmed.Any form of discrimination is a danger to the cohesiveness of society.However,I was also interested in comments about the need to prepare for the independence referendum.When the referendum comes,the unionists will throw everything at us.We got an early taste of that during the election for the Scottish parliament.For example,the border issue,how EU membership would impact on trade with the rest of the UK,the currency issue and the myth that renewed EU membership is not really independence.The SNP and all independence groups ought to prepare robust rebuttals to what is coming.My concern is that much of this work does not appear to have been done.While I believe that Nicola sturgeon is a fantastic politician,when I watched her being interviewed by Marr recently,her answers were not entirely clear or convincing.That worries me.If Covid is under control next year,and there is going to be another referendum,there is a need to prepare for what we know is coming..We cannot afford to lose again.

    • grizebard says:

      I agree wholeheartedly, and have said so already. The FM has more pressing matters to deal with for all our sakes, including for those who never voted for her at all, but some well-resourced group should be working on these matters full-time besides (if there isn’t one in existence already), just as you say. And we should all be saying so loud and clear. Muddling along in the hope that it will somehow “be all right on the night” just won’t cut it.

    • James Mills says:

      Border issues , currency , debt , etc… doesn’t matter what issue they throw at you , as soon as you answer it they will unleash another salvo of ”issues” that THEY are concerned about re. Scottish Independence .

      I am fairly long in the tooth but cannot remember many similar arguments being thrown at all the African colonies that achieved independence throughout the 50’s and 60’s .
      I DO remember the violence in some countries due to the intransigence of the ruling Brits who felt it unacceptable for ”these people” to want to rule themselves .

      The case of Malta in the 60’s DID raise similar questions as to THEIR ability to ” stand on their own feet ”without the broad shoulders of the British ”( pat. pending ), but they seem to have survived , if not prospered ( probably to spite the Brits !).

      • James,theses are just examples of what are coming up just now.Of course it is likely that there will be other issues that need to be anticipated so that the independence campaign can be prepared for them

        • James Mills says:

          My point is – it doesn’t matter to THEM what answers we give , they will ignore them and move on to whatever they think will be negative to the Indy campaign !

          • grizebard says:

            There is even a potential trap which Nicola, from recent comments, may be inclined to fall into again next time, namely that by spelling everything out in laborious detail, you just give the parasites all the ready-made quibbling ammunition they could hope for. As with the currency issue last time, for example.

            It may be a much harder row to hoe, but our newly re-elected FM however is right to say it not only matters that we get independence, it matters how we achieve it. For unity going forward. There has to be head as well as heart – we mustn’t follow the blind Brexit example.

            Good preparation is a crucial part of the process of winning over those who fundamentally know what needs to be done but nevertheless are still swithering.

          • grizebard says:

            Oh, and if I may add, of course the usual suspects will go about their nefarious business with whatever devious ploys they can invent out of nowhere, that’s a given.

            More importantly, I suggest, is the effect of what the SG, the SNP and we, in hopefully harmonious consort, can say and do to convince the ordinary non-aligned. They are the real target audience, not our devious ever-quibbling opponents.

          • I got your point James.My point is that some of these issues are important to voters who we would like to vote Yes.The border issue is a concern to those who live in the borders.We really struggle to win there.That is why that area id very blue.

            • Alex Clark says:

              I read just a couple of days ago that there was a team of civil servants, advisors and Ministers, in February of last year working on an updated version of “Scotland’s Future” in anticipation of having another referendum. Not the same document but something that attempted to address the most important questions that people will be looking for answers to.

              However, in March the FM called a halt to all government work relating to an Independence referendum in order that the government could and was seen to be fully focused on dealing with the Covid pandemic that was now upon Scotland.

              This was obviously the correct decision back then and I have every faith that as soon as it is possible to do so, that work on the answers to these important questions will restart and we will have those answers.

      • iusedtobeenglish says:

        Do you think the Maltese did it deliberately?

    • Bob Lamont says:

      “My concern is that much of this work does not appear to have been done” – Accent on the “appear”..
      I mean no disrespect by this, but you forget the shock learning curve NO and Mibbe Scots suffered post Indyref, so many lies revealed and myths vaporised since, forgive but remember the basta’s name comes to mind.
      The problem for the Britnats is they fired all their ammunition including alien invasions from space in 2014, even with fresh embalming fluid the Broon has had zero impact despite huge but hopeful media promotion only to meet deaf ears…
      Just think about it, London are no longer calling the shots, it is they who are on the defence now thanks to perfidious albion, and no need for concern over the FM and Marr, just remember “he said nothing”, and have a quiet chuckle…

  41. Hamish100 says:

    Nicola Sturgeon has stated that she wishes to win a referendum this time. Just because we are unaware of a specific proposal the work has and will have commence. Draft legislation is prepared but I think giving Marr some exclusivity to what we will do is naive at best. The new FM knows what she is doing.

    • P Harvey says:

      Hamish

      The new FM knows what she is doing.
      You say.
      I concur
      Every possible twist and turn in the future Independence campaign will have been fully and carefully worked out. Who would expect anything less by Nicola and the SNP?

  42. I hope that you are right Hamish

  43. Petra says:

    ‘Coronavirus (COVID-19): guidance on marches and parades.’

    http://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-marches-and-parades/

    ………………………………………….

    From Poots who supported a hard Brexit 🙄.

    ‘New DUP leader to prioritise removing Northern Ireland Protocol from Brexit agreement.’

    http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/edwin-poots-brexit-agreement-7976822

  44. grizebard says:

    I see that Wee Willie, with all the force that his 3 supporters in the new Parliament can muster, was in the very nicest possible way imploring the newly re-elected FM not to appoint a Minister for the Constitution – presumably with a whole department to prepare the case for independence. I guess from this specific expressed concern in his acknowledgement speech, that this mooted Scottish government démarche has a very real prospect of happening, which (if it transpires) is an even better development than I for one was hoping for.

  45. Petra says:

    Peter Stefanovic:- ”This is how Government Ministers should be held to account! Excellent from @adilray on @GMB today. If only all news shows refused to let Government Ministers off the hook like this!” https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1394204812846247938

    ………………………………………………

    National Farmer’s Union:- “It’s clear negotiators from Australia & New Zealand are sticking firm to their hardline demands for the complete removal of tariffs on all their exports to the UK. This would make life unbearable for small British family farms”.” https://mobile.twitter.com/NFUtweets/status/1393834557091287042

    • grizebard says:

      Do you think that the old penny is finally dropping with “British” farmers that the English Government doesn’t actually give a toss about their livelihoods? This is the cold hard world of “deil tak the hindmost” Brexit and it’s hardly even started. We finally slid into it with barely a whimper, but – mark my words – the worst is yet to come.

  46. Petra says:

    ‘Nicola Sturgeon re-elected as first minister of Scotland.’

    ”Sturgeon gained 64 votes, Ross 31 and Rennie four, with 28 abstentions.”..

    http://www.holyrood.com/news/view,nicola-sturgeon-reelected-as-first-minister-of-scotland

    …………………………………..

    ‘Boris Johnson’s new ethics adviser faces no-confidence vote over university role.’

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/boris-johnsons-new-ethics-adviser-faces-no-confidence-vote-over-university-role/

  47. Petra says:

    Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp:- ”Dawn raid protest shows Scotland needs control of immigration.’

    http://www.businessforscotland.com/dawn-raid-protest-shows-scotland-needs-control-over-immigration/

    ………………………….

    ‘Simon Case says preserving the Union is now ‘at the forefront’ in Whitehall.’

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/19308909.simon-case-says-preserving-union-now-forefront-whitehall/

  48. Petra says:

    “I have hope” – Lorna Slater MSP’s maiden speech.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNatkz2Ub6s

    ………………………………………..

    ‘New poll: English voters back Scotland’s right to referendum.’

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/19310610.new-poll-english-voters-back-scotlands-right-referendum/

  49. Tam the Bam says:

    ……And breathe………..

    Afternoon folks…hope everyone is well.
    As an antidote to everything bad that has tarnished the name of association football in Scotland this weekend may I refer you to:-
    BBC ALBA … 7-25pm
    Scottish Championship Final (first leg).
    Airdrieonians v THE RIDICICULOUSLY TALENTED AND EXTREMELY FAMOUS………” GREENOCK MORTON.”

    Enjoy….(or fall asleep….lol).

    • Tam the Bam says:

      *Ridiculously*……ooops!

    • I watched the Edinburgh City V Dumbarton game last night, Tam. A great up and at ’em honest group of lads going at each other, but fairly.
      Great game.
      I’ll be tuning in tonight, via i Player later on, so don’t tell me the score. Shades of the Likely Lads avoiding the ‘England F..’ game.
      As you know Airdrie ‘stole’ Clydebank’s place in the professional leagues all those years ago, for which I have never forgiven them.

      We are all ‘Tons tonight in this household.
      I’d imagine that you are counting down the minutes…

      I’m making the dinner, so back later to comment on setting ourselves up for Project Fear 2 by publishing Scotland’s Future 2 too early.
      You may recall that Iain Davidson (bayonet the wounded, close Govan and Rosyth shipyard) chaired the Westminster Scottish Affairs Committee stuffed with Unionists, which spent tens of millions, and had the entire Civil service at its disposal( Civil servants got gongs for ‘saving’ the Union) attacking the Scotland Document.
      They produced 13 Positional Papers rubbishing Scotland, covering everything from Defence, Currency, EU membership, and trade with England.

      The Treasury, MoD, ONS, OBR, DWP, Foreign Office, and many more Brit Depts chipped in with too wee too poor shit, and Dany Alexander Lord Darlin Clunking Broon and Baroness Rape Clause used this pile of Scotland is Shite at every opportunity and Glenn and Gordon and Sally quoted often from this big do of propaganda do doo reporting its lies as fact.
      We won’t make that mistake again.
      We keep our powder dry until the short lead up campaign to Indyref 2.
      Something’s burning. Later.

  50. Petra says:

    C’mon Dom spill the beans on Johnson in relation to Scottish Independence 😉.

    ‘Dominic Cummings reveals he has ‘crucial’ Covid paper in threat to Boris Johnson.’

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/19311220.dominic-cummings-reveals-crucial-covid-document-threat-boris-johnson/

    …………………………………….

    Check out Ann’s latest links on the Indyref2 site.

    https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/links-tuesday-18-may-2021/

  51. Wee CB says:

    I saw all the disgraceful footage from the weekend from Glasgow and I thought what my younger self as a teenage lassie would’ve thought of it all. My pal supported Aberdeen and I supported Rangers. I used to watch the games on the telly and go up from Dumfriesshire to the odd match when I could afford it. I had posters of players like Ally McCoist and Mo Johnston on my bedroom wall and a Rangers top. My mate painted her bedroom in Aberdeen colours. It was very innocent and we just liked the fitba’. That was it. We didn’t come from a sectarian area and I didn’t understand why the local supporter’s club was suffixed by Loyal. I had NO idea. Absolutely no idea whatsoever. I suppose that’s naïve but this was in the very late 80s and early 90s when you didn’t have social media to find things out and if you’re not exposed to that environment you just don’t know. As I got a bit older I learned about sectarianism. I was also a Scottish independence advocate from an early age and I decided it wasn’t for me. I haven’t followed a football team since. The gentle and quiet wee lassie who just liked the fitba would’ve been absolutely horrified at what happened at the weekend. I’m sure there are kids and older current supporters who are just as upset.

    • grizebard says:

      I don’t know if you just “grew out of it” naturally as you got older, or if you were deterred by discovering the Dark Side of RFC, but if it was the latter, clearly the management of the club are creating a rod for their own backs by effectively filtering out the very people they should be wanting to keep, and instead making it a haven for Bad Sorts. Fairly self-defeating, really, assuming they actually care about football rather than the other thing.

    • Wee CB, your formative years seem to mirror those of my next door neighbour. She unashamedly admits to having McCoist’s poster on her bedroom wall, and now, in her, ahem, mature years, she still thinks that wee Ally is still a bit of all right.
      Her man supports the other side, sorta.
      Love was truly blind, since they have been together since their teens.

      There is a much gentler side to Sellick and Ranjurs, but it has been swamped by this awful mob in recent years.

      • Wee CB says:

        The thing is, if you had seen my bedroom in my teens I had a Rangers bedspread, my walls were blue, I used to get the Rangers News and it wasn’t just Super Ally on my wall – I remember Ian Durrant, Mo Johnston, Pieter Huistra (the spelling will probably be wrong) and their ilk on my wall too. My Mum would buy me a paper if she saw a Rangers article I might like in it. I was a genuine supporter and it wasn’t a case that it was a phase I was going through. I would talk about the fitba with my Papa quite happily as he was sports daft and I’d read over the fitba results in the Sunday Post and all the league tables. I think the problem looking back was that I thought it was mandatory to be an unionist and to sing sectarian songs to be a fan. I didn’t realise that there were Yes supporters and that was okay too. I had little in terms of reference to go on and I just couldn’t do it. I started to become very politically aware and once I knew I would be voting SNP when I was old enough and I wanted Scotland to be independent, I left Rangers behind and felt sorry but this overtly religious thing was not me. I did have a tape of Rangers songs by some ceilidh band and to be fair there were no actual sectarian songs on it, certainly nothing about Fenian blood or King Billy. God almighty. If there was my Mum and Dad would’ve hit the roof. I think Jack has a good point – there are plenty decent supporters that would be outraged at the behaviour at the weekend but its drowned out. It’s a shame. Thanks for giving me the forum to discuss this sensibly – its played on my mind a fair bit since the weekend.

  52. Captain Botseye says:

    “you are asserting that Scots with an Irish catholic heritage are not properly Scottish at all.”

    …also Scots Catholics with no Irish heritage! Sick of it, Paul. I left Glasgow nearly 40 years ago and have begun latterly to pine for my ain city and my ain folk again. Then I remember that I’ll always be a Fenian bastard to a significant number of them.

    • grizebard says:

      Significant only in terms of the nuisance they occasionally cause. They are insignificant otherwise, a dying breed held in general public disregard. This city still has its problems, but in that respect at least it’s in a far better place now than when you were last here.

  53. Alex Clark says:

    The Scotsman reports:

    Scottish Government rejected bid for fans to celebrate inside Ibrox

    https://archive.ph/MRSpS

    Rangers FC sought permission to allow up to 10,000 supporters each day for a number of days to gather at Ibrox to celebrate the league title win. The problem with this proposal was that Glasgow, along with the rest of Scotland was still under Level 3 restrictions and no crowds were yet allowed at stadiums.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Which gets me thinking if Glasgow remains in Level 3 how might that affect Euro 2020 matches due to played at Hampden? Who’d be a politician, eh?

    • I note the hysteria in response to your post, Alex.

      What is being headlined as a ‘reasonable’ solution from RFC in the Brit Nat Dead Tree Scrolls was that RFC admit that their core support is an uncontrollable mob intent on rampage if they don’t get their way, and that we, the people of Scotland should ‘allow’ herds of 10,000 hoodlums to travel each day to their Spiritual Home , get drunk on the way, leave a trail of destruction in their wake, and then take part in some sort of hellish war dance in the ground, then retrace their trail of destruction drunker, more belligerent, back to their bolt holes, while spreading the Ibrox variant throughout our communities as they surge like marauding Visigoths across our city and its environs.
      It is reasonable to argue that the Ibrox board therefore admit that their ‘small minority’ numbers in the tens of thousands, and that the howling baying rabble must be humoured and corralled into a giant cage, like wild rabid beasts?
      Wild animals who pay £62 a pop for a replica jersey; kerching.

      Below, there is the usual nonsense about Nicola Sturgeon being responsible for this mess from the usual suspects.
      Sad, but predictable.
      RFC has reached the end of its rope. Points deduction, and close or partially close the ground..

      BTW, Tam the Bam…I watched the Airdrie Morton clash…Big grown men getting clattered and bouncing straight back up to get back in the game…not like the prancing prima donnas on thousands a week who roll over and over in agony as though mortally wounded in the top tier.
      It was a sair fecht right enough.
      But great to hear REAL fans cheering singing and booing on the terraces.

  54. The behaviour of Rangers fans and by association Rangers F.C. is beyond asking Rangers F.C. to deal with the fans it is beyond asking or expecting the SFA to deal with it , this is a now without any doubt at all a matter of criminality and one os such seriousness that Scottish Government must take serious action.
    It is coincidental that the streets of Glasgow were quiet when they rampaged , covid , in a way , saved us because had this been a normal day in Glasgow many many innocent people would have been harmed and put in danger.

    Seeing dozens of police just stand there whilst these Rangers supporters walked up to them and threw bottles cans stones bollards and fences at them beggars belief , the wrong political decisions are being made here and as a consequence the wrong policing decisions are being made, we will pay dearly for this , someone sooner or later is going to be killed during these increasingly violent episodes.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      ” Seeing police just stand there!”

      My goodness…….Terence youre more bereft of savvy than I took you for.

  55. Dr Jim says:

    You can’t eliminate what is until you replace what is with what can or will be, the hordes of nutters who pretend that football is connected to their religion in some sort of quasi holy anti others not them pro royal collective divinity will not change and will not be made to change, they’re a lost cause, but their children aren’t

    Primary school is the future of any nation, no matter what lunacy parent’s attempt to indoctrinate their children in, when surrounded by other children or teachings by those they respect the great majority will ditch the insanity and embrace the good stuff if it’s placed in front of them in a concerted effort of the rejection of hate

    A long time ago this was the topic being discussed to bring an end to racism sectarianism anti other behaviour and like every initiative we’ve had before the talking was the only thing that ever happened for one huge important reason, *control*

    Unionism depends on Rangers and Celtic battering away at each other, they like it, it’s an extension of their Christians and Lions, their Roman amphitheatre their Gladiators, one team against the other, the two armies good and bad with the end result all good for Unionism because they succeed in the art of division to have the populaltion fighting with each other taking sides that they created and use so nobody looks at the creators

    Children are the answer, the instruction of right and good by pointing out as gently and persuasively as possible to the primary aged children that their parents are wrong deluded and it’s offensive to behave in this way, convince them and there’s no replacement for the adults we see carrying out this mayhem, show them film, show them the end results, show them what they’ll grow up to be if they follow this path, I guarantee you the adult numbers will dwindle very quickly

    Replace the nutters with what can be, result, the end of the nutters

    To do it is bigger than the OBFA it would take great courage from any government because the Union will fight back using all the faux outrage, the faux offence, the newspapers, politicians, parents, anything they can think of, they’d call it Sturgeon’s children indoctrination and all the rest of the names we all know they’ll make up referring to all the stuff we expect from them, but if it can be tackled like this it would work

    Give me a child until it’s 7 and I’ll give you the man
    Scotland can rear children, not bampots

  56. Alex Clark says:

    Is this just another moan in a long series of moans Terrance?

    “the wrong political decisions are being made here and as a consequence the wrong policing decisions are being made, we will pay dearly for this”

    Care to elaborate on exactly what these “wrong political decisions” are that you claim have been made?

    Just give me one single example relating to the carnage witnessed in Glasgow city centre at the weekend that occurred as a direct result of “wrong political decisions” being taken, I presume you mean taken by Scottish Government politicians?

  57. Alex , did you just say

    “ Which gets me thinking if Glasgow remains in Level 3 how might that affect Euro 2020 matches due to played at Hampden? Who’d be a politician, eh? “

    And then say

    “ Just give me one single example relating to the carnage witnessed in Glasgow city centre at the weekend that occurred as a direct result of “wrong political decisions” being taken, I presume you mean taken by Scottish Government politicians? “

    Yes you did didnt you ,silly in a long series of silly comments alex
    Its foolish to think that Rangers fans wrecking Glasgow city centre had nothing to do with politics.
    Scottish government made a decision to do nothing to prevent it they knew about it in advance and will have discussed with police.
    The police made a decision to do nothing more than circle the trouble this was also a political decision the police did not act in this ultra restrained way of their own accord they were instructed to do so from the very top of government, they took a lot of hits too many police injured.
    Yes alex thats political yes alex thats Scottish government political
    Yes alex i think the Scottish government should have taken stronger action to prevent this debacle
    No alex it does not mean i have stopped supporting scottish independence just because i criticise scottish government

    • Alex Clark says:

      I get it, Gterrance. The Scottish government are responsible for E=rangers fans behaviour in George Square over the weekend. Nothing at all then to do with the responsibilities of Rangers FC, the SFA or fans taking responsibility for their own actions.

      The Government are not responsible for policing and rightly so, I;ve no idea what talks went on or of decisions taken but you claim to have them.

      So I’ll ask again, give me a single example of the “wrong political decisions” being taken, why were they “wrong” and who made them?

      “i think the Scottish government should have taken stronger action to prevent this debacle”

      You seem to think you have all the answers so what would you have done to prevent such scenes?

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Perhaps the “SG stronger action” Terence is referring to is repeal of the OBFA spearheaded by one James Kelly, who after much gloating over the political point scoring, and promising immediate replacement legislation, delivered diddly squat.

        Given that SG may only legislate, that SP may only act in compliance with the legislation, that SP may advise what they plan to do but politicians have no powers to direct operational decisions, are matters which Terence glibly ignores, but the observation “Seeing dozens of police just stand there..” frankly beggars belief.

  58. Hamish100 says:

    I see the bbc https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57159520 are saying Rangers kindly suggested that 10000 of their fans should be allowed to celebrate their league win. What they have omitted is that the Rangers leaked letter wanted the same for another 4 days.

    Fans travelling from not only Glasgow but across the country and from a province too. What could wrong? How would Rangers with their security guards deal with those turning up without a ticket or turning up in more than once? Forget Covid.

    This was more about “we arru people” and as Paul mentioned the British exceptionalism mindset. There was no doubt this was brutish and British behaviour. If you won the Scottish league should you not see 1 saltire? No, flags attacking the other big club in Glasgow were order of the day, the sectarianism, the vandalism. A repeat of previous behaviours.
    The other club prefer to wave another countries flag. Divide and rule.

    What about the other teams who won their respective leagues and cups. They complied with Covid rules to protect the public.

    We also so the tories in Parliament trying to excuse the behaviour as to the event a few days before and a few miles away in Pollokshields/. Govanhill.
    So they see the Rangers intransigence as political opportunity to attack the government.

    Do they not see that many neutrals see what the britnat mentality really is? Force majeur.

    If Rangers are banned from Europe- in football terms they cannot blame the rest of us.

    • I’m sure that there is no truth in the rumour that the ‘Loyalists’ were going to erect a 60 foot high bonfire comprised of wooden pallets and old furniture in the car park to keep the poor wee souls warm on these unseasonably chilly May evenings.

  59. Will we see higher than expected covid infection in certain areas because of Rangers fans crowding , how much higher ? its a setback in the effort to control covid infection that will affect more than just Rangers fans that congregated in Glasgow.
    It will be interesting to see what if any punishment is issued to Rangers.

  60. There were three plane loads of Rangers supporters came from Belfast i think that should not have been allowed to happen

  61. A good report on scotgoespop about how the conservatives in Scotland have concluded that getting fewer votes was a success,

    “ The Conservative vote share dropped slightly on the constituency ballot. Now, it’s true that it increased slightly on the list ballot, and you can if you wish say that the list ballot is more important – but that would mean acknowledging that pro-independence parties won a clear majority of the popular vote on the list ballot. Instead, the Tories are claiming the constituency ballot is more important when they want to dispute the mandate for an independence referendum, and that the list ballot is more important when they want to claim the Tory vote increased. IT JUST DOESN’T MAKE SENSE “

  62. Capella says:

    Eddie Reader has some great insights into independence issues. here is an intervew on election night with Independence Live Ruth?
    Topics cover Scandinavian countries and borders, Ireland and Northern Ireland, Unionism, accents and colonial suppression of, Nicola brought up in Dreghorn like Eddi, end of the class system and post feudal society – so much packed into this it would e a great stand alone clip.
    From 1:32:50 till 2:06:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNO0nKsYrLw

  63. bringiton says:

    I can remember back in the 70s visiting a friend in London.
    On a trip around London we passed a railway siding full of carriages minus their windows.
    I thought that maybe British Rail were doing routine maintenance but my friend informed me that it was Millwall football supporters who had smashed every single one.
    So,football seems to attract violent thugs everywhere who use various and sometimes no excuses to act out their pent up frustrations.
    Rangers,however seem to have a long history for attracting that sort of behaviour.
    I think it was Mary Robinson who said that some Irish people were very proud of their bigotry and went to great lengths to ensure it was passed down from generation to generation.
    That appears to equally apply to some British supporters of that club.

  64. jfngw says:

    The Tory Legacy:

    It started with thatcher and the destruction of the industrial base, ending with Brexit and the damage, to some it my be fatal, of the financial, fishing and farming industries. The only thing they have retained is the excellent money laundering schemes and corruption in Westminster, enjoyed by so many of their MP’s.

  65. Alex Clark says:

    Angus Robertson is to take over Mike Russel’s role as the Constitution Secretary in the new cabinet.

  66. Capella says:

    Raptor persecution are delighted that Mairi Gougeon is the new Rural Affairs Secretary. Perhaps action will now happen on the terrible toll of birds killed over Scottish moorlands.

    https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2021/05/19/fergus-ewing-out-mairi-gougeon-in-scottish-cabinet-reshuffle-revealed/

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s