It’s still SNP 1 & 2 for me

It was always obvious that Alex Salmond wasn’t going to stand for one of the existing minor parties. He was always going to set up a new party that he could be the undisputed leader of. We can at least be grateful for the small mercy that he has called upon his supporters to vote SNP in the constituency vote despite the best efforts of some of the more trenchant critics of Nicola Sturgeon who spoke at the launch of the new Alba party to get him to say otherwise. However this new party has got SNP spoiler written all over it, and for all the talk of winning a super-majority for independence in the Holyrood elections in May, it is difficult to resist the conclusion that Alex Salmond’s true goal is to deprive Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP of winning an overall majority by themselves and so having to rely on Alex Salmond’s party in order to ensure that pro-independence majority.

This new party may succeed in its aim of boosting the total number of pro-independence MSPs, but it is just as possible that Alex Salmond has over-estimated his own popularity and will only succeed in splitting the pro-independence vote and allowing opponents of independence to slip in under the wire because the pro-indy vote on the list is now split between the SNP, the Greens and Alex Salmond’s new vehicle. The events of recent months have done considerable damage to the reputation of a man who was already the marmite of Scottish politics. I am not sure that he really appreciates that.

I am not denigrating the undoubted political talents of Alex Salmond, but he is not infallible. This new party is a dangerous tactic typical of a gambler, and moreover one from a man who despite his undoubted contribution to advancing the cause of independence has in the past made a number of unforced tactical and strategic errors, the consequences of which still dog the independence movement today. Time will tell whether this will prove to be another one, I genuinely hope it’s not. It’s all very well choosing to gamble with your own political career, however it is another level of hubris entirely when you choose to gamble with what is our best and potentially only chance of winning independence for decades to come. If this gamble fails, he risks going down in history as the man who threw away our best chance of independence because of his ego and his resentments.

It’s because of Alex Salmond’s unnecessary rhetorical flourishes that we currently labour under a Conservative administration which constantly throws the once in a generation line back in our faces, allowing them to stand in the way of the will of the people of Scotland while hiding behind a convenient fig leaf of an excuse which disguises their true anti-democratic nature. It’s because Alex Salmond made a needless political error of judgement that we are constantly fending off the what currency will you use question from opponents of independence. In no other country seeking independence is the question of currency pivotal in the independence debate, but it is in Scotland because of Alex Salmond’s decision to say he wanted a post-independence currency union with the rest of the UK. He created a huge open goal for the Better Together campaign because in effect he was saying,”Westminster we want independence from you, but hey, we want you to cooperate with us on on this key aspect of our economic policy.” Of course the Westminster parties were going to take advantage of this open goal by saying no, and they have continued to take advantage of the doubt and confusion it created ever since.

True leadership sometimes means swallowing personally unpalatable truths for the greater good. That’s a test that Alex Salmond has failed. To say that I am saddened and disappointed by a man who was once a huge personal hero is something of an understatement. A true leader would have said to all the pro-independence critics of the SNP : “This isn’t about me, I am prepared to lay to one side my misgivings and disappointment in the current leadership of the SNP in the name of securing a solid SNP majority in these crucial elections which lie ahead, and building a secure and stable platform from which to wrest another referendum from Westminster. If I can do that, so can you.”

But that’s not what he has done. Instead he has created a vehicle in which he personally can be the dominant force, making it look as though he is prioritising his own needs and interests. The biggest danger is that by creating a credible pro-independence list party, he gives succour to those critics of the SNP who are looking for an excuse not to vote SNP in the constituency vote. Some of them may now be more likely to assuage their fears of a British nationalist winning by telling themselves that even though they are boycotting the SNP in the constituency vote they are still casting a pro-independence vote in the list. However the Alba party’s strategy to maximise the independence vote can only succeed if the SNP manage to hoover up almost all the available constituency seats. That in turn will only be sucessful if Alex Salmond can rein in the vociferously anti-SNP element among his supporters and encourage them not to undermine the SNP’s support in the constituency vote  – and ideally to work to maximise the SNP vote in the constituencies. Given that the press conference announcing the launch of this new party prominently featured the toxic Stuart Campbell, who remained eager to use the occasion to get a few digs in at the SNP’s expense, the signs of this happening are not good, and raises additional questions about Alex Salmond’s judgement.

It was already difficult for the average voter to make a principled decision about tactical voting on the list in the Additional Member System used for Holyrood elections. Now instead of weighing up a decision about whether it is better to vote SNP on the list or the Greens, discounting for the time being minor parties which gain no traction, the pro-independence voter is faced with a three way choice, and the chances of an anti-independence candidate managing to slip in due to a divided pro-independence vote are consequently magnified. Now instead of simple slogan SNP 1& 2 the voter needs to be guided by a complex formula which will differ in different areas and which in any case will not become apparent until immediately before the vote, by which time it’s too late to get the message out. I sincerely hope that this unecessary gamble succeeds and produces a healthy pro-independence majority, but I fear today’s development will make that harder, not easier, to achieve. For that reason It’s still SNP 1 & 2 for me.


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485 comments on “It’s still SNP 1 & 2 for me

  1. Bryan Ritchie says:

    I no longer find it possible to trust him and I hear rumours that Stuart Campbell is involved which if true kills it for me. I am SNP 1 &2

    • John MacDonald says:

      Stuart Campbell has been Salmond’s de facto press officer for the past three years. He has at various points published articles that are literally just Salmond press releases – there has been no attempt to even pretend they are anything else.

      A couple of years ago, Campbell published an article floating the idea of “Salmond’s New Party” one evening. It suddenly vanished with little explanation, and never reappeared – something that he’d never done before or since. It was clear that Salmond wasn’t happy at him giving the game away so blatantly so told him to pull it.

      So yes, Campbell is very much involved. His attacks on Sturgeon have been so Salmond didn’t have to get his hands dirty doing it himself.

      • Ronnie Anderson says:

        Utter rubbish Stuart Campbell is never been a press officer for Alex Salmond & any attacks on Nicola are justified in her approach to Independence she has done nothing since 2014 but divide the SNP with HCB/GRA & long time members being ignored .

        • John MacDonald says:

          She’s gotten us to the point where a majority of women now back independence – something that Salmond was incapable of doing and which everyone acknowledged was one of the reasons we lost in 2014. She’s gone on TV almost every day for a year now leading the country through this pandemic, being the living embodiment of why Scotland needs to run its own affairs, rather than being run by Tory toffs.

          No progress could be made until Brexit was sorted. People may not want to believe that, but it’s the reality. In 2017, we tried to make overtures too quickly and voters said “hold on, not yet” and we lost a bunch of MPs. Two years later, they said “okay, we’re ready now” and we won most of those seats back. Again, if you want to pretend this isn’t the reality of the situation, then that’s your prerogative, but you’re kidding yourself.

          And if you don’t think Campbell has published articles that are essentially Salmond press releases, then I can only assume you’re not a reader of his blog. You’re free to go and check if you want.

  2. Jinty M says:

    Well said Paul. This is all about his monumental ego and him pretending to be the knight in white armour charging in to save independence. Don’t buy it and here’s hoping the majority won’t either.

  3. yesindyref2 says:

    I can see the anti-Sturgeon activists voting for him, but I can’t see the ordinary electorate doing so, considering his admitted inappropriate behaviour.

    • im a big fan of nicola but i will vote alba on the list as i have been asking people to vote tactically for some time dads

      • yesindyref2 says:

        You’re an activist, cat and not just that, take an interest in AMS. Most people don’t even go on a march, let alone spend hours online. He’s very unpopular and untrusted with normal folk it seems, according to the polls.

      • Ann Christie says:

        As I will be too. In my area the list, despite the high SNP vote, produced no SNP MSPs. Instead we have 3 Tories 3 Labour and 1 Green. I can’t see the point of voting SNP 1 & 2 here, as it is counterproductive. Personally believe a supermajority is an excellent idea.

        • Brian Powell says:

          An overall majority is all that is required. Other parties are opposition and not predictable. Most of those in the Alba party are anti-SNP and anti-FM.
          I’m not clear why you would hand them any kind of power.

          • Margaret Barrie says:

            Completely agree, Brian.

          • Do people fondly imagine that if he got it that’s he’s going to play nice with the other children. Don’t think so.

          • Grouser says:

            Completely disagree.

          • if they are anti snp, why are they asking to vote snp in the constituencies? bear in mind they wont be standing in constituencies to maximise the snp votes there

            • Fat Hippo says:

              The reasoning is easy, it’s mainly SNP voters who have to use their 2nd vote tactically. Most of them would probably go for Greens. He wants to mop up their second votes to become kingmaker in parliament. Once in we can kiss independence goodbye, because his personal vendetta against the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon in particular will quickly remove indy from the top spot on the to-do list.

        • Claire says:

          Voting Green at a local level would be your best bet then Ann, since they’ve agreed to an alliance with the SNP.

    • iainlawson27 says:

      What was that, spell it out, don’t leave us in suspense. See you in court if you lie.

  4. Can’t agree with you on this one, Paul.

    If SNP are ~5%+ ahead in the Constituency vote in my area (I’ll check polls and bookies odds in run up to the vote) then I will lend my List vote to the next best placed indy party. That might be the Greens. It might be Alba. I don’t know. But I think by backing the next best placed party on the List is the best way to deliver the biggest pro-indy majority in Holyrood.

    But – as I said – it’s not a given. If SNP have less than a 5% lead in the Constituency vote in my area, I will opt for safety first and go SNP 1&2.

    BTW – the present holder of the Constituency seat in my area is one Nicola Sturgeon,

    • Statgeek says:

      Getting constituency level data won’t be easy, short of polling companies doing that for us. I’d be happy enough with region-level constituency data, but it’ll be guess work.

      Election day is a long way off, and it’ll be interesting to see if the Westminster parties and media cosy up to Eck, ignore him as an also-ran, or turn their guns on him as much or more so than on the SNP.

    • Brian Powell says:

      You would only find out if that is real after the vote, too late then if it isn’t.

    • John MacDonald says:

      That logic is flawed. Regional seats are based on the list vote across all constituencies in the region – not just yours.

      Kilmarnock and Loudoun is in the same region as Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire (South Scotland). Voters in both seats will elect the same South Scotland list MSPs. However, your logic says voters in both seats should cast their list votes differently based on who will win their particular constituency.

      Anyone who truly understands the system knows it can’t be gamed. There are just too many variables, too many moving parts, too many things that can only be known after all the votes are cast. If you want an SNP majority to ensure a repeat of 2011, there’s only one way to do it: vote SNP on the list.

  5. MAGGIE LAWSON says:

    SNP 1
    and Alba 2 for me .
    That’s just because I feel left outside my own
    ( now former ) party because I’m a woman .
    No one looking for solutions to the women’s rights clash with trans rights . We’ve just to wait in the corner till it’s okay to be safe .
    That’s not good enough fir me , sorry .

    • Hamish100 says:

      You think Campbell is pro women? How about Salmond?

    • JSM says:

      I’m with you, Maggie.

    • Ann Christie says:

      I feel very much the same Maggie.

    • Golfnut says:

      Yes they are, they have a current review in place looking at how women’s right are protect in light of the new bill. If you were at all interested in women’s rights you would know about that.

      • stewartb says:

        Indeed. Action by the SNP Scottish Government: Baroness Helena Kennedy has now been appointed to head new Scottish misogyny harassment group. The leading QC, human rights campaigner and Labour peer has been appointed by Scotland’s justice secretary to lead a working group on the possibility of creating a new offence of misogynistic harassment in Scots law in a bid to protect women from hate crimes.

    • Valkyrie says:

      Don’t really get how women’s rights clash with trans rights.
      That’s always come across as the anti-trans mob’s equivalent of the Vote No gang’s “You can’t use our currency” gambit.

      • Alec Lomax says:

        Walkure, didn’t you know that some people tend to obsess more about the GRA than they do about Indy, or the pandemic or Brexit or climate change?

    • Brian Powell says:

      Everybody acting as if there isn’t a real opposition waiting to take over, not in Scotland, in Westminster.
      Once they get in it won’t matter what anybody here says. All the ‘arguments’ will just be losers squabbling among themselves and ignored.

    • Morag Giblin says:

      So not quite sure why you are going for salmond and wings.

    • Grouser says:

      Paul said recently that he did not vote SNP in the constituency ballot because the candidate did not support same sex marriage. What is the difference with me not being able to vote SNP on the ballot because the Justice Secretary is the candidate. I oppose both GRA and the Hate Bill because the members were not consulted and they are being pushed through against their wishes. It is alright for Paul not to vote SNP on conscience grounds but it is also alright for the numerous people who do not support GRA and Hate Bill to do the same.

  6. A C Bruce says:

    I posted this on the previous article:

    “I’m minded to vote SNP1 and giving my list vote to Alba. We have to seriously consider the million or so SNP list votes that go to waste. Alex Salmond has a high enough profile for any party he leads to hoover up at least a good percentage of those wasted votes making a greater number of independence MSPs in Holyrood (maybe even a supermajority as he hopes). I don’t vote for the Greens and AFI or ISP don’t have a high enough profile to garner many of the list votes. I think Alba could do well.”

    There are no sure things due to our voting system but the million votes that produce no list SNP MSPs really rankles.

  7. […] Wee Ginger Dug It’s still SNP 1 & 2 for me It was always obvious that Alex Salmond wasn’t going to stand for one of the […]

    • Jeannette Crawford says:

      Ginger… what about all the dehondt calculations for vote 2? SNP will wipe the board with vote 1. Dehondt means they will get cack-all in list seats. Green is cool BUT they are NOT an official indy party and so Westminster can act silly fuckers about the voters intentions in voting green.. carror munchers or true Indy voters? We need alba/AFI/whoever to get a couple seats to bolster the SNP majority to a supermajority as wee eck says. He may be a walking ego, a bloke with wandering hands, a bully… but we HAVE to get Indy this time or we are all truly fooked and minority rights will go straight down the pan with every other right you have.

  8. John Muir says:

    I listened to Salmond’s press conference. I found him very credible. He made a strong case for an overwhelming win for the independence movement in this most vital of all Holyrood elections.

    I’m no detractor of Nicola Sturgeon. She’s absolutely the right person to be leading Scotland right now. But I do trust Alex Salmond’s commitment to the cause of independence, and I believe his strategy could become enormously useful if we find ourselves up against a refused section 30 request for indyref2.

    Will I vote for Alba? They need some candidates for Lothians yet! But they’re definitely an option now for me. (Especially after the Greens ejected my favourite MSP: Andy Wightman!)

    By the way: Paul, you’re easily the most eloquent voice for Yes in the blogosphere. I always enjoy your posts. I’m not picking sides here, just laying out feelings as they are. I didn’t think I’d be as positive to see Salmond’s return, but he changed my mind, and I’m giving him a chance.

    • I totally agree with you John. I have just donated to the Alba Party and I will be voting SNP 1 and Alba 2.
      It was sickening to see 1 million SNP 2 votes wasted in 2016 allowing many unionists into Holyrood on the list. The SNP only gained 4 msps from the list for all of those votes.
      This is why I believe independence supporters owe a vote of thanks to Alex Salmond, because now we have been given the opportunity to rid Holyrood of droves of red and blue list tories, and give independence a super majority in the Scottish Parliament by using the D’hondt voting system to our advantage, insted of it being used against us by the Brit Nats.
      I’m grabbing this opportunity with both hands.

      • grizebard says:

        You’re grabbing at a mirage. Vote in haste and repent at leisure. This is politics, not some kind of spreadsheet exercise. I just hope after the results come in, the rest of us are not repenting along with you.

        • John Muir says:

          The SNP would need to lose a lot of constituencies to win any list seats across most of Scotland. At that point, all those SNP 2 votes would be doing is helping soften their losses. In any case, the cause would have been beaten soundly at the ballot box by the Brits. It wouldn’t help us win independence. It would be an enormous setback. One the polls are very far indeed from showing.

  9. Dave Andrews says:

    Hi Paul understand your concerns. But if SNP come to my door in Coatbridge & ask for both votes they get a mouthful of abuse.
    Always SNP first vote
    Hopefully Alba will do the right thing & not bad mouth SNP then they’ll get my 2nd vote
    SNP both votes allows unionist parties to get seats in most regions
    SNP would be better to acknowledge this where applicable

    • stewartb says:

      “… they get a mouthful of abuse.”

      Why not give your reasoned, compellingly argued case politely? Or even just say: “no I won’t be doing that”. Why is “a mouthful of abuse” from you necessary?

      Early days of a better nation?

      • Margaret Barrie says:

        Good response … too much abuse, hate and divisiveness have worked its way into the Indy movement the past couple of years. Doing the Unionists job for them.

    • Brian Powell says:

      Hoping Alba will do the right thing is a deadly position to be in, handing your vote to a Party that has no responsibilities of any kind is even more dangerous.

  10. Bill McDermott says:

    # Proud Cybernat

    How will you know what the voting percentages are in each constituency? Polls are merely national samples, not a sure fire bet in any location.

    • It won’t be easy getting such intel but I’m hoping that someone might organise a poll beforehand that will give us that regional level of info that will help me (indeed, us all) make a more informed decision as to where to place the List vote.

      Crowdfunder anyone?

      • Statgeek says:

        I imagine there will be more than a few polls in the coming weeks. I seem to remember ScotGoesPop was crowd-funding one (that’ll be interesting given the Salmond news).

      • grizebard says:

        It’s just fishing in murky waters for something that probably isn’t there anyway. Reality only dawns afterwards, when it’s well too late. {sigh}

    • Hamish Richardson says:

      Any huge change from 2016 is unlikely. SNP will cream the constituency vote, unless of course they screw it up, which they won’t. That leaves virtually no list MSP potential for the SNP except in the South Scotland region where the Tories are doing ok. For the rest of Scotland, as far as the SNP is concerned, it’s nae chance. So, that’s where Alba will be able to clean up for the indy vote. As far as the list vote is concerned, it’s not worked out on a constituency basis, but a region basis, and the BBC has this info on its website. Just type in “Scottish Parliamentary election 2016” and have a look. It makes sense.

  11. yesindyref2 says:



  12. Macjim says:

    SNP 1&2 for me too…

  13. anna says:

    I agree that if Stuart Campell is involved it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. His dismissal of anyone who dares to diagree, however politely, sends the signal that this new independence party is not one that will be willing to work cooperatively with the wider body of indy-minded people to bring about independence. And I say this as someone who once upon a time generously donated to wings. I am so disappointed in AS.

    • I’m no great fan of AS either but if I do vote Alba on the List then I won’t be voting for the candidate. I’ll be voting for the policy – independence.

      But AS is shrewd enough to see the complete liability that Stuart Campbell has become to the indy movement and will dump him faster than a Stu Campbell libel suit. Of that I have little doubt.

      • campbell wont get selected for any list on any region and he has no intention of moving to scotland.i doubt he will put his name forward anyway. for the moment he is nothing more than a supporter, which is hardly alex fault

        • weegingerdug says:

          But I am sure it was Alex’s decision to have him feature prominently at the launch of the new party

          • John Muir says:

            He’ll be a fine candidate for Alba’s Somerset list.

          • heilan' loon says:

            Like it or not Paul Stuart Campbell has good visibility, not only do those that Wings visit his page, those who don’t do also, which is why I am sure was the reason for being prominent, although I missed his questions as had to take the wife shopping for the mother in law who won’t go near a supermarket until she gets her second jag, not that she needed the excuse before covid after not leaving her hose for a year after breaking her leg after a slip on ice in 2019

          • like it or not Paul, wings has a high profile and the alba party does offer some much needed consiliation between factions

      • Ann Christie says:

        Completely agree!

        • James Mills says:

          Judge a man by the company he keeps ! Alex Salmond appeared happy to be in the’ company’ of the toxic ,potty mouthed Campbell – enough said !

      • Me Bungo Pony says:

        No he won’t. Salmond will need Wings to get a “positive” message out to as many people as possible. The MSM won’t do it. He just has to hope Campbell doesn’t become an issue and lose him more votes than he brings.

        • Mistertaximan says:

          I agree with this analysis. Campbell is a useful idiot. He is an important vehicle for getting the Alba message out to SNP sceptical Indy supporters. Like it or not, Wings has the largest traffic in the Scottish political blogosphere. He does come with risks, but not to his disciples.

        • DH says:

          I was going to say that – do you think Alex needs Wings to stop bashing the SNP and set out a positive message? Wings is toxic acid. Alex is probably the only person in the world that can actually influence Wings/stop him pouring his chemicals into the spring. Ive already seen a shift in how Wings is talking – much more positive and “above it all” (hahaha) notwithstanding his sharp and angry questions at the press conference

  14. I was extremely disappointed, but not surprised, to see ScotGoesPop pledge support for this party. Some months ago he suddenly started talking about a list party headed by AS and that it would be the only such party with a hope of winning seats. That seemed to come out of nowhere, but he’s admitted today he’s known of the ‘possibility’ of such a party for months. He has spent those last few months promoting and making the case for ‘such a party’ on his blog without being honest about what he knew.

    This makes him little better than the other blogger who has being trying to do as much damage to the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon as he can, and has been promoting the nonsense that neither party nor leader really want independence.

    As for AS, I thought he might want to take the credit for independence, I think it’s more, and I don’t think it’s just his desire to be the dominant force in independence as you put it, Paul. What I think is that he wants Nicola Sturgeon to be reliant on him, to have to ask him for his support, to have that power over her, to show her who’s boss. Sickening.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Scot goes pop one less donation from me.
      He has now gone against his own advice over the problems with 2/3/4 parties on the 2nd vote

      • It was quite the volte face!

        At first it was ‘it doesn’t work’, then all of a sudden it became ‘it would only work if it was a big name’, that morphed into ‘it would only work if it was someone like AS’, and today it’s been revealed as ‘Yeah I knew all along, and I’ve been making the case for this party for a while now, just not telling any of you that that’s what I’m doing’.

        • I continue to have a lot of time for James Kelly’s analysis even though I vote differently. I always split my vote because I’m a passionately pro-independence Green who votes SNP on the constituency vote.

          But I hadn’t realised what James has been doing re buttering folk up for Alba.

          If much greater concern is your point that “ What I think is [Salmond] wants Nicola Sturgeon to be reliant on him, to have to ask him for his support, to have that power over her, to show her who’s boss. Sickening.”

        • Eilidh says:

          I am pretty disappointed in James. I posted on his blog last night that I would not be voting for a party with any connection to Stu Campbell and pointed out that James had previously said gaming the list vote was a mugs game a total gamble. My post appeared on the comments ok but had disappeared a couple of hours later. That is the 2nd comment of mine on his blog that has disappeared recently. Neither of which were in any way abusive.I won’t bother to post there again

          • Alec Lomax says:

            Any party that has Campbell in it can take a run and jump. Salmond isn’t that desperate, surely ?

    • Union Man says:

      The past few weeks have exposed the nationalist movement as being insidiously toxic and a far cry from the ‘civic’ and ‘joyous’ titles which they arrogantly bestowed upon themselves.

      Here’s some advice from an outsider: All this infighting is ‘not’ a good look and will put off soft YES/NO voters.

      • James Mills says:

        NO , they have exposed the egos of certain individuals !

        The Independence movement – NOT the nationalist movement (are you Boris Johnson ? )- is not toxic . The vast majority do NOT involve themselves in the squabbles played up by the MSM and interlopers like you .

        This move today by Alex Salmond is another desperate ploy to make HIMSELF the story . He STILL will not admit ( even when asked today ) that his presence on a Party ticket will be anathema to many women .
        Yes , he was not found to have committed CRIMINAL acts in his trial , but enough was admitted that would preclude many ( even former supporters ) from putting their X against any group that included him .
        He is playing dice with the cause of Independence for his own selfish ends !

    • Jinty M says:

      Agreed Holly

    • Margaret Barrie says:

      With you on this, Holly.

  15. Hamish100 says:

    My wife and daughters have made it quite clear that they will not vote for Salmond and Wings. In fairness my son and I agree with them.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      My wife says there are always women who say about other women “They must have been asking for it”. She used to think he was OK, not any more.

      Sturgeon has to ignore it I think, and just run a positive campaign.

      • John Muir says:

        That’s the crucial thing. The SNP has to ignore Alba as much as possible, staying on message about their own positive case for continued government and Indy.

        Aim at Alba, and the narrative becomes “SNP splits” instead. Just pretend they’re not even there. The SNP must keep itself above this. Aim fire at Boris Johnson, always.

        And I say this as someone Alba curious!

  16. Gordon Adam says:

    SNP 1 and 2 is a stupid idea. No matter who you use the list vote for, don’t use it for the SNP if you want independence.
    Time for me to leave this blog which I’ve followed since 2014.
    Sad times to be an independence supporter.

    • Hamish100 says:

      What are the wee parties policies?

      I am interested.

      What distinguishes them from one another or are the based on an individual or cult?

      Where have heard that again? Lol

    • Dr Jim says:

      Of course you know that SNP 1 and 2 was originally Alex Salmond’s strategy and how it maximised the overall majority that led to 16 extra seats in Holyrood when the SNP won

      But if you say it’s a stupid idea then you must agree that Alex Salmond is either stupid now or is a liar

      • Jim says:

        No, it means that the voting voting pattern is entirely different now. Circumstances, a d therefore tactics, have changed.

    • James Mills says:

      ”Gordon Adams ” , if that’s your name -Don’t let the door hit your arse on the wi ‘oot !

  17. arabugsy says:

    Never thought I would ever be in a position where I did not totally agree with your comment or opinion. I am only looking for independence, however it is achieved. I have never cared about NS or AS as personalities and only see parties like SNP and Alba as means to an end, not teams I support. If personalities are discounted and D’Hondt is kept in mind by every voter wishing independence then I can only see the equation – SNP 1 + Alba 2 = supermajority.
    Never mind the individuals and count the seats.

    • James Mills says:

      Simples ! Yet not !
      What guarantees have you that enough people will think similarly ? What happens if Alba splits the Indy vote and allows a unionist in ?
      There is no sure way of gaming this system . The only time a majority was achieved was when both votes SNP were the tactic ( 2011) and the chances of repeating that are still the same today – IF voters adopt the same tactic .
      NO , it is not guaranteed either but is less risky than relying on a new party led by a Marmite personality with Stuart Campbell perched on his shoulder spitting poison about the SNP/Nicola sturgeon in his ear !

      • Jim says:

        I’d be interested to understand how the independemcelist vote being split could lead to a unionist getting in?
        Yesterday’s opinion poll said 1m SNP list votes would lead to zero seats. If just 150k of these votes go to Alba, then there will be around 8 additional independence seats.
        Some of us focus on independence, not on the ego or AS or the megalomania of NS.

        • James Mills says:

          Meglomania ? Really ?

          I hope the ”independemcelelist” is NOT split .

          You can’ just say that IF 150K votes go to alba – this is a regional vote – how can you game it ? Is someone coordinating ?

          There isn’t even a guarantee that The Alex Salmon.. Alba Party can even supply enough List candidates !
          It’s a cobbled together shambles of a party which is hoping to attract people who have grievances ( meglomania ? ) against the SNP/Nicola Sturgeon .

        • Margaret Barrie says:

          … been an SNP member for almost 60 years. Seen “leaders” come and go, but consider Nicola Sturgeon the finest leader the Party has ever had … not perfect, no one is, but certainly NOT a megalomaniac and a person of principle. Her example has brought many women into the Indy movement.

          • John Evans says:

            Maybe to put it in an even better context, most of my family in England (yes, I’m English living here for 50 years and very pro-independence) sincerely wish they could have her as their leader or are actively thinking about moving to Scotland because of the way she has conducted herself in the face of both the pandemic and the AS affair.

    • Mrs Sheryl Hepworth says:

      Has anyone seen how many list candidates Alba are putting up?? From what I’ve seen they are fielding 4…. FOUR… candidates!! How the hell are 4 going to help Indy???

  18. Brian Powell says:

    The immutable facts of elections is, nobody cares what your intentions were when you lose, you get whatever the winner decides.
    Nobody cares who blames who on the losing side, it is just losers squabbling among themselves.
    Alex Salmond is a horse racing gambler and he is gambling with the election, the supermajority is a fiction.
    Only a government can do the negotiations involved in independence, that government must be a clear majority SNP.
    The % majority among the 16-35s is over 70%, among minority groups over 80%, even up to 55 it is a clear majority. The first two groups are not going to vote for Alex Salmond, women are not going to vote for Alex Salmond. Nicola Sturgeon brought them into independence.
    I suspect if the voters for A Salmond were to get together, the age would be high and with a overwhelming majority men.

    SNP 1&2 for me.

  19. Ken says:

    Just as well the vote’s secret. YES,YES,YES. Even more Indy votes.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Or no , no , no no, seats as the vote is divid up and fail to get over the line. If greens lose out I suspect Lib Dem’s will benefit unfortunately.

    • Eilidh says:

      If I was switherin about voting for an Indy supporting party,after all that has happened with Alex Salmond in recent years him setting up this new party would probably change my mind and make me think supporting an Indy party is nuts. In my opinion he is a vote loser rather than a vote winner particularly if Stuart Campbell is in anyway involved with Alex’s ego trip of a party. Politically AS has returned from the dead before but he would do well to remember Lazarus only rose from the dead once. Tonight my opinion of AS could not get much lower

      • James Mills says:

        Luckily , with the Covid social distancing not too many women will be exposed to his touchy-feely behaviour during canvassing . Let’s be thankful for small mercies .

      • Sheena Fraser says:

        I agree with you Eilidh

  20. Capella says:

    I said on the last thread – I wouldn’t vote for Alex Salmond if he paid me. He appears to be motivated by his huge ego and revenge. He perhaps believes all the nonsense his acolytes in the zoomer wing of the movement tell him. He will attract endless smears from the media about sleaze.

    I just hope he doesn’t do too much damage.

    • Col says:

      I dont see how he can do any damage, without Alba being around snp 2 will not elect any msps, too many constituency seats rendering list votes worthless. With Alba around, snp2 will be even lower so absolutely no chance of getting snp list seats. If Indy’s the aim then snp 1, Alba 2 is just common sense.

  21. Dave J says:

    Get a grip!
    It’s a list party that thousands will get behind and keep the sno in check plus bring us Independence quicker than the snp ever would on its own.

  22. Bob Agassi says:

    SNP 1 and 2 for me

    The rose of all the world is not for me.
    I want for my part
    Only the little white rose of Scotland
    That smells sharp and sweet—and breaks the heart.

    • Kersky says:

      Love it

    • Hamish Richardson says:

      Well Bob, while you’re sniffing the flowers, give some thought to the fact that the SNP will win most constituencies (maybe all but two), and therefore will win no list seats.

  23. Oh my – game on!!!!

  24. Alistair Donaldson says:

    And so the divisions continue. For AS’ sake I hope he is not responsible for a second failure this time around;he’s tainted goods now and any sympathy I had for him has long gone, more so that he is now clearly in the company of the bath man. I hope I’m wrong but my personal take on this is that he wants to bring NS down without being entirely open about it, as she is so popular. It still has to be SNP 1 & 2 for me.

    • deelsdugs says:

      Me too!

      After the cac of the past while he’s timed his ‘prime’ moment with an actor’s ego-ejaculation of something he was unable to achieve through bluff. He’ll appeal to the hardcore. Just another boriscumtrump over-inflation. The wings are not over Scotland. The wings are Skye. There’s a heap of stuff here that’s no quite right…but then, I suppose this is meant to be a democracy, let’s keep it as such.

      Wonder who’s paying him to cause such disharmony?

    • Margaret Barrie says:

      Completely agree, Alistair.

  25. Clachangowk says:

    South Scotland region: both votes SNP an absolute must

  26. David Kilgour says:

    Well, all these comments are most instructive. Very little in terms of logic, but the hatred for Salmond (without whom we’d never have got near government in Scotland or a referendum) is pretty disgusting. An innocent man, unless you’re an SNP member, it would appear. Leaving aside your personal animosity over Alex, consider this. Last election the SNP got 935,587 votes. And 4 list MSPs. 3 of these were in south Scotland where the Tories won several seats. In the rest of Scotland, around 750,000 votes got the SNP 1 (one) seat. The Greens, with a total of 150,000 votes, got 6 seats because they didn’t win a constituency. So, it won’t hurt the SNP if Alba wins big on the list vote. It will just increase the number of pro indy votes. Of course, it may be that the SNP’s hatred of the man they couldn’t kill overcomes their desire for independence, but one thing is clear; if the SNP wins almost all of the constituencies, then a 2nd vote for them is a waste of ink.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Nothing to do with hatred everything to do with improper conduct with junior staff. One way of moving in is to accept your behaviour and show proper contrition. Nothing to do with the court cases but you know that.

      • iainlawson27 says:

        As I have said elsewhere spell out what he is supposed to have done? Let’s hear it. Be careful you don’t end up in court yourself of course.

        • Me Bungo Pony says:

          He has admitted to being “no saint” (just not criminal) where female members of staff are concerned. It was the basis of his defence. This is common knowledge.

          • Ingenious says:

            You’re going to have a hard time deciding how to vote if you are only going to vote for saints!

    • Okay, so say there’s an election and SNP win 60 seats, Alba 8, Greens 5 (for instance). We have a super majority for Indy. Great. So we go for it. Brilliant!

      Alex Salmond is connected again with a referendum. Again associated with gaining independence. Alex Salmond who is less popular in Scotland than Boris Johnson. Alex Salmond who you and others may be a big fan of, but who puts the ordinary person off. The soft no people. The people needed to get a majority vote for Indy.

      And all the while Alex Salmond is connected with politics again, with Indy, it gives ammunition to the media, to opposition politicans and parties. It gives them even more opportunity to talk about splits in the SNP, and just continues the drip drip drip of anti independence propoganda.

      Alex Salmond is not a popular person in Scotland. In the long run his involvement will adversely affect the general population’s view of whether or not Indy is a good idea.

      • John Muir says:

        That’s the best argument against Alba I’ve heard all day.

        • Thanks John. I think we’ve got to look beyond the possible short term gain of having more Indy seats. (Something incidentally that wasn’t really in question when you look at the polls.) Long term Alex Salmond’s involvement will be detrimental.

      • Mrs Sheryl Hepworth says:

        Alba can’t get 8 seats as they are standing 4 candidates!!! What are the policies apart from Indy? So many unanswered queries!!!

    • Bob Lamont says:

      “Well, all these comments are most instructive” – as are your own, albeit I confess the name Kilgour cause knee-jerk scepticism and reaching for a large can of pledge and a duster.

      It was the “hatred… innocent man, unless you’re an SNP member..” schtick ending with “hatred of the man they couldn’t kill ” which blew it for me, 🤣 a little too heavy on the Salmond, Alex Salmond, 006 and a half.

      How’s about policy statements and candidate profiles rather than the same data analysis games 77 Brigade have been salting for the last year ?

    • Mistertaximan says:

      Thank you David, a voice of reason. Anyone who ignores Alba on the list ballot paper is putting Party before cause. Sabotaging a potentially significant pro-indy majority in order to pursue an increasingly unlikely SNP majority and chase off AS out of spite for the man.

      Everyone is dancing to this unionist tune that requires an SNP majority in order to somehow validate indyref2. It’s a clever unionist ploy, especially when you consider that a partial PR system is specifically designed to make that hard to achieve. SNP can’t counter this false bar that has been set without stating a case for not voting SNP. Of course, they want a majority.

      It’s time that the narrative became pro-indy majority over anti-indy minority, instead of SNP versus the world. WGD and many others are married to the idea that only SNP can deliver independence. Well the SNP do not own Independence. I am glad that they no longer have this trump card up their sleeve. It will serve Scottish democracy well. The SNP have had a perfectly valid justification for indyref2 since Brexit and a pro-indy parliamentary majority to back it up. They have done nothing with it. Why should I believe that will change?

      The next PM to sign a section 30 would go down in history as the man who sold out the Union. No PM will make that mistake again. So what next? I don’t have the answer but a huge pro-indy majority in Holyrood looks like a good place to start and this is how to achieve it. It’s a political masterstroke. The unionist media will stir up more Salmond v Sturgeon rhetoric, but don’t fall for it. I implore people to get over the personality politics and vote tactically on the list.

    • Margaret Barrie says:

      No-one in the SG tried to “kill” AS … what utter rubbish Mr Kilgour. Alex Salmond’s demise was brought about by one person … Alex Salmond. “Behaviour that fell well below the standards expected from a man in his position” and admitted by him.

  27. Old Pete says:

    Half expected she might jump ship, she like Alex has a very large ego. Her defection will either break her or make her ?

  28. Bob Agassi says:

    One if the biggest surprises for me is Stu endorsing the Alba party, what with the Gaelic name 🙂

    • Hamish100 says:

      They don’t know hot pronounce the ALBA correctly!

    • Eilidh says:

      Them using that name Alba feels somewhat patronising to me. I don’t think AS being a guest at 2 Runrig concerts I was at makes him the biggest supporter of Gaelic culture. Anyway the party was supposedly started and named in January by some journalist

      • Tam the Bam says:

        Well we know for sure the Mayor of Bathistan is not a fan of Gaelic culture.
        He freely admits he dislikes the name Alba Party!

      • James Mills says:

        Some Journo ? Not Andrew Neil ? He has become a convert to the Alex Salmond cause . Makes you teary-eyed !

  29. Old Pete says:

    South Scotland SNP 1 and 2. An awful lot of old Tories live in Ayr, Prestwick and Troon where I live.Siobhain Brown is an excellent candidate but we need every vote possible to beat old Tory John Scott.

  30. UncleBob says:

    Interesting times indeed. I have always voted for any party with Independence at its core. So this new Alba party is interesting. But it is early days to decide if I will give another party claiming to support Independence my vote.

    Until today it has always been SNP 1 and 2. But I reserve the right to watch and listen to see what any other Independence supporting party has to say for itself, irrespective of personalities.

    To be honest my gut says that I won’t change my voting preference, but there are six week to go and who knows what will happen.

    • James Mills says:

      What can they say ? We are for Independence and eh , that’s it . But don’t question or look closely at any of the candidates we are putting up . In the end it’s all about Alex Sa … sorry Independence !

  31. I am sick fed up wasting my second vote on the SNP and seeing the likes of Murdo Fraser get a job for life, or so it seems. I have not decided who will get my second vote yet, but anything that gets Murdo and his like kicked onto the dole will get my vote.I also believe the SNP should let the unionist parties vent their spleen at the Alba party as it is not a good look for the SNP.

    • grizebard says:

      Whatever happens, it won’t get Murdo kicked out. His place is guaranteed by the Tory Party provided only they still get the necessary votes. Or are you suggesting that this latest pop-up will somehow siphon off Tory votes? Really?

  32. jfngw says:

    My only consideration now is do I now need to make my second vote Green to try and keep out those that approve of humiliating women in the workplace as still acceptable in the 21st century. That depends on my local SNP constituency prediction closer to the vote and the likelihood of the SNP taking any regional Glasgow seats.

    The hypocrisy from some of them is unbelievable, paranoid about trans and claimed defender of women’s rights but seeing nothing untoward about admitted behaviour because he is their hero. If that doesn’t define a cult then what does?

  33. i have long been a proponent of tactical voting on the list, long before the fall out of nicola and alex. there are many commentators here who can confirm this. the basis of my belief in tactical voting is neither personnel nor political. it is simple arithmetic.

    I have never been a big fan of the alex and nicola ate my hamster goat rodeo either. I see it as nothing more than a game of “he said, she said” choreographed by our common enemy, the unionist establishment. and for that reason i have taken no sides, indeed, i got booted of wings for defending nicola, it would be ironic if i were booted of here for defending alex?

    nicola was found innocent, alex was found innocent. its finished. get over it

    so here’s the maths, in 2016 in mid scot & fife the unionists won 6 of the 7 available list seats and the greens won the 7th and last seat. if the voters who voted green on the list in this region had taken your advice and voted snp instead………….

    all 7 of the available list seats would have been won by the unionists. fact
    you can check the arithmetic here, you can have your own opinions but not your own facts, 2+2=4 for everyone

    in 2016, in 7 of the 8 regions, only one snp list msp was elected, maree tod, that was from 850,000 snp list votes

    in 2016 the snp got 46.5% of the constituency vote, polls at the moment show support for the snp to be between 53-56% which means they are likely to win even more constituencies than in 2016. which means the will win even fewer list seats in may.

    the snp 1 & 2 is a dangerous mantra that could very well insure the loss of an indy party majority in the next holyrood parliament

    • grizebard says:

      Once again into denying that anything really happened. “Innocent” only in a strictly legalistic sense, but otherwise only in your imagination. Enough of the Alex apologist gaslighting. Reality to be gainsaid for the sake of your abstract psephological theorising. Pretend all you like, but there’s 50% of the electorate out there who’re thoroughly sick of this kind of blinkered mansplaining.

      (Oh, and who among them is now going to want to have to share any kind of space with him without a chaperone also being present? Though maybe they’ll all likely be men anyway.)

    • Ken says:

      2021 not 2016

  34. And now for something that isn’t fake news. Big win for SNP tonight:

    • Jim says:

      I’d be interested to understand how the independemcelist vote being split could lead to a unionist getting in?
      Yesterday’s opinion poll said 1m SNP list votes would lead to zero seats. If just 150k of these votes go to Alba, then there will be around 8 additional independence seats.
      Some of us focus on independence, not on the ego or AS or the megalomania of NS.

  35. Macart says:

    Outside of the internet bubble, where both anoraks and reluctant anoraks roam, I’m guessing most folk will vote their conscience and their life experience.

    Of recent times that last bit hasn’t been so great with Messrs Johnson, Grabbit and Run attempting to put the Jocklander chappies back in their box at every opportunity. Onion fleggery initiatives, expansion of onion units and appointing lipservice place bods won’t replace lives, jobs or life chances lost or ruined by their handling of government.

    Most are now aware on a day to day level what restrictions are placed on devolved govt. What they can and cannot deliver. They also know how to get more… IF they want it badly enough. I’d guess they’ll vote for those with the most centrist appeal and the most visible profile or footprint that isn’t anything to do with those who placed them in their current sorry predicament.

    • Macart says:

      Dang! Last comment was intended for SC. (Blush)

      • im not so sure Macart, the “alex salmond for 1st minister” worked on the list last time round 🙂

        • Macart says:

          Heh! Anything is possible SC. TBH after the past few years I’ve thrown the old tarot cards oot the windae. 😀

          I think the thing which worries most bods online is not so much how to work any system as how to trust it and/or their own judgement.

    • Lovely, Sam.
      Apparently Alba’s only manifesto pledge is to plant a saltire on the hill…no, that’s it.

  36. SNP 1 and 2.
    Distorting Scotland gave us a taster of what to expect.

    Sally and Glenn doing a double act, old footage of the trial, Alex and Nikla arm in arm with the Scotland’s Future document held aloft, Sarwar Dross and Wee Willie on, SNP divided right down the middle…oh and the Hon Sarah Smith is to ‘chair’ the first ‘leaders’ Debate’ next Tuesday night.
    Salmond not invited yet?
    He’ll get a mention or two, possibly.

    SNP 1 and 2, and for those who want an option, Greens.

    What an arrogant old fool this man has become.

    His argument that an ‘overwhelming majority’ would force Johnson to grant a S 30, has been rubbished by his Copy Boy Campbell for over a year now, a stick to beat the SNP and Sturgeon over the head.
    But now that his wonderful pal Salmond is arguing the same corner, he is the Second Coming?

    Imagine this man anywhere near the Negotiaing Team divorcing England?
    Me neither.
    In W Glasgow it is SNP 1 &2.

    • Kersky says:

      Thank Christ….I have been really upset about the change in the replies since the AS new party and it’s causing me some concern. I only want Scotland to be able to survive on its own and I know we can. 1&2 for me and I hope every other Indi supporter.

      • grizebard says:

        Not to worry, they were primed and ready to go. But a swallow doth not a summer make. Nor for that matter a small bunch or angry birds of doubtful plumage.

      • Kersky, there’s a wee gang of Eck Fans on here today, talking the ususal nonsnese.
        Salmond is an old disillusioned man, Sturgeon is the FM of Scotland, the Government, with a six figure party membership.
        Salmond has fronted half hour cable talk show since 2014, and has not really worked for ‘a generation’, which is described as 7 years according to the GFA.
        Sturgeon has steered this country through the most trying of times, from Brexit, Covid, the Power Grab, and mitigating the savage cuts fronted by Sarwar, Baroness Rape Clause and Rennie, for their English Masters.
        The trolls on here are attempting to ‘big’ Salmond up, that he as a political stature equal to Sturgeon’s. Has he feck.
        The ‘visitors’ on here will disappear soon…we enjoy a good laugh, and by god, they are hilarious.
        SNP 1 &2, in this household, and all our grown up families.
        The thought of Salmond anywhere near decision making is farcical.
        As I say, will his ‘pal’ David Davis, who snubbed the Scottish Government for two years before being sacked as EU Frontman, be coming North to campaign for the Big Man?

        The MSM are loving it.
        SNP 1 & 2.

    • john mclaughlin says:

      Excellent post Jack thank you. My opinoin is , i believe A S is toxic right now his agenda is selfish,he as Paul says could quietly support the movement,but he has to be front and centre.Why was his intervention/announcement given Pride of place on BBC 10pm news . This will keep the saga of AS+NS SNP split firmly in the News and be a topic of almost all debates. SNP 1+2 for me and many of my friends and family.

    • Margaret Barrie says:

      Excellent response, Jack.

  37. pmac555 says:

    In your opinion do you think SNP 1&2 is viable for all areas . I live in Aberdeen city & I am not sure that SNP 1 green 2 is a better option for my unionist city . Your thoughts please & thanks

    • Statgeek says:

      In 2016, the SNP took 9 of the 10 constituency seats. As a result of this, despite having 45% of the list votes, they got zero list seats.

      But !!!

      In 2017 and 2019, the Tories increased their profile in the North East, so I would wait to see North East regional polling nearer the election before deciding anything.

    • Dr Jim says:

      SNP 1X2 was originally Alex Salmonds idea when he led the party and for two reasons, at every election Westminster counts seats we know that but they also count votes because every election in Scotland is a referendum on Westminster, it doesn’t matter if you don’t get a list seat with your vote, the idea is to deprive the Unionists of that second vote because you can’t guarantee the outcome of lists and everybody who says different is just big fat lying

    • grizebard says:

      Best keep your powder dry to see when (when, not if) the Angry Party start to attack the SNP in the constituencies, whatever pious hope is expressed by their Great Leader. (Some have already started. Then there’s always SoB.)

  38. maceasy says:

    How refreshing to hear someone seriously discuss the tactics and strategy for independence, under a broad coalition of supporters, instead of the mealy-mouthed wheesht for indy nonsense from the SNP, who have given us no strategy for five years and want to own indy. And as for the Greens, trying to play faithful lapdog in return for favours…
    Good to have some actual serious politics back instead of the sideshow and social media guff. Bring it on.

    • James Mills says:

      ”The SNP want to own Indy ” – ffs who else was touting independence ? And the ”wheesht for indy nonsense ” was just that , nonsense ,
      Most voters don’t give a sh*t for As discussing tactics – they see him as, to misquote George Galloway ( wash your mouth out ) ”an ego on stilts !”

      • maceasy says:

        The point is to have at least have some tactics and a strategy and demonstrate you have thought about it. Rather than a few nice words about it. Whether a lot of voters don’t care about that is not the issue. The SNP have sat on their hands for years without developing any strategic plans for indy, other than waiting for the polls to go in their favour. As a result they are reduced to begging Johnson for permission, which he will never grant.

        • James Mills says:

          Tactics and strategy ?
          Wait until the eve of an election and then launch a new party , led by a Marmite character with a dodgy recent list of unionist supporters and a vile troglodyte from Bath as his PR man with no visible means of funding ( ??? ) .
          Yes that sounds competent !

  39. bringiton says:

    It will be interesting to see the Alba party’s manifesto which,presumably,will differ from the SNP in some significant ways,otherwise what is the point.
    If they are simply for independence but minus the present SNP leader,then many will pay no attention.
    This election is not an independence referendum,it is about electing a government which initiate that process.
    In my mind SNP 1 and 2 will bring about the result that most independence supporters desire in terms of having the required majority at Holyrood.
    It has been declared on another blog that a list independence party will only have voter credibility with voters if the leader is a well known politician such as Salmond.
    I think they may have backed the wrong horse in this case,whether we like it or not,he is damaged goods.

    • James Mills says:

      Talking of backing – Who is bankrolling the Alex Salmond Party , sorry , Alba ?
      Is this Dark Money , some of Alex’s new unionist friends , or is it out of his compensation for being put through the wringer for his touch-feely inappropriate actions ?

  40. Paddy Farrington says:

    The so-called supermajority is a con. It adds not one vote to popular support for Indy. That’s where the real battle for hearts and minds lies. The Alba party is entirely parasitic, just like the other max-the-yes parties with no distinctive policies.

    • Jinty M says:

      Agreed. Hopefully the majority of independence supporters will feel the same

    • maceasy says:

      It seeks to maximise the indy vote under the D’Hondt system. Thousands of votes will be wasted by voting SNP 1 and 2. That is the point. Plus of course, broadening the base of the independence movement, which is sorely needed and not the fiefdom of one party which some think has lost their way (eg no ref until 2024 at the earliest, silencing of internal debate, leadership cult etc). It is not about splitting, it is about widening. The debate alone needs to be had, with a plurality of voices and opinions. That is healthier than the current one party approach.

      • James Mills says:

        You clearly don’t understand the D’Hondt system if you think adding another party seeking the endorsement of the same pool of voters is goinfg to be better than SNP 1 and 2
        A certain A. Salmond ( you may know him ? ) canvassed in 2011 for this very outcome and …it worked . A majority SNP Government .
        There were specific reasons for it not doing the same in 2016 but today ALL our efforts should be to see Salmond’s Dream of 2011 replicated in 2021 .

        Or is Mr Salmond now denying that his strategy of 2011 was the wrong one ?

    • Alan D says:

      Complex formula? It’s not that hard. SNP 1 & Green/Alba 2 everywhere. Almost every article attacking AFI/ISP for vote splitting has, whether inadvertedly or not, conceded that things could change if Salmond stood with a new party.

      If you like Salmond? Alba. If you don’t like him? Greens.

      Turnout is an often overlooked variable in elections. In 2016 the SNP picked up about 100,000 constituency votes from people whose first preference were Greens. If the Greens and Alba can increase that kind of turnout, it could take the SNP to 1.2 or 1.3 million constituency votes.

      The crucial thing to avoid is poisoning the wells so much that those motivated regional voters spoil their constituency ballots – or god help us, vote for unionists to reduce THEIR chances of getting list seats.

      • grizebard says:

        So how are yer ordinary voters anywhere going to decide with your “easy choice”? Since they’re not interconnected by some kind of ESP, in any region, half might go one way and half go the other. Result: both fail to get sufficient support and instead some unionist gets the spot instead. Another Murdo or Annie in the bag. That’s the kind of outcome to which this fatuous theoretical spreadsheet thinking leads.

        • James Mills says:

          I think WoS will have a big fundraiser to buy the super computer from Hitch Hikers Guide
          ( Deep Thought ? ) which will input all the facts and tell Stu who to vote for and he will pass this on to the voters .
          Or else they will adopt Plan B ( from Outer Space ? ) – cross their fingers and hope for the best !

      • “Complex formula? It’s not that hard. SNP 1 & Green/Alba 2 everywhere.,,”

        Only if you KNOW with absolute certainty how the constituency vote will go. Since no-one can predict the constituency vote, your argument fails. Especially so in South of Scotland; your advice would likely lead to the SNP losing list seats there.

    • grizebard says:

      My view also. Insofar it achieves anything, it will take existing SNP votes, not add new pro-indy ones. And the new ones are the ones we need.

    • Margaret Barrie says:

      Agree completely.

  41. scrandoonyeah says:

    and when Alex Salmond walks into the chamber after the election his first words will be:

    Hello Honey, I’m home…….

  42. David Agnew says:

    The only way this plan could work is if the other pro independence parties on the list stand down and leave the field open for Salmond. Then you have to convince everyone to use their list vote for Alba. The greens will not stand down. Nor will any of the others. The people will vote for who they think is best suited to get the job done. The absolute best you could hope for is a minority SNP gov in some sort of rainbow coalition. The worst is that the union parties sneak under the radar and that my friends is that, not just for the term of a parliament, but a considerably longer time and Christs knows what damage could be done.

    You want to win this? You need to start winning over the folks who voted No. Not pinning your hopes on wild voting schemes that can only spread your vote out, like butter over too much bread.

    • James Mills says:

      ”You need ” and ”You have to ” ”You want to ” — Are YOU not in this ?
      Why not ”WE ” ?
      Are you above the fray , a Stranger in a Strange Land , a passing visitor ?

      • David Agnew says:

        The post is there for those who think you/we/them can magic up a super majority by doing clever tricks on the list but not take extra votes from the unionists.

      • grizebard says:

        Whatever, James, he’s talking sense anyway.

        • Tam the Bam says:

          I concur… the only feasible course of action now for ISP & AFI is to fold into the Alba Party… and since they’ve made their presence known for sometime now…I imagine some amongst their midst will be well aggrieved about that!….and treat Salmond’s party as a ‘Johnnie-come-lately.

    • WelshScot says:

      Erm, AFI stood down yesterday… hopefully ISP will follow.

  43. Jonathan Marshall says:

    Paul I really respect your views…and appreciate every article your write.Maybe you should stand on the List or so where as an Independant! But I will agree to disagree on this one…the truth is that most votes on the list for independence are wasted due to the system that was deliberately set up to do just that… I actually think that the powers that created this particular system never thought that they would lose control of the Constituency vote and SNP candidates would always be relegated to being elected on the list…. Anyway we are where we are and I will be SNP 1 and Alba 2 for reasons explained before.

  44. bringiton says:


  45. One_Scot says:

    Lol, I can say this because I am not a fanboy of Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon, I am a fan of Scottish Independence, and that fact that you people cant pull it together when it really matters confirms to me that Independence for Scotland will never happen.

    I have also told Stu this.

    So continue to fight among yourselves, all you are doing is Westminster’s job for them.

    Everything changes, but everything stays the same.

    • James Mills says:

      So why are you on here commenting , ”One Scot ” ? You are a ”fan” of Independence ? Back in your hole !

  46. Legerwood says:

    Here is Alex Salmond’s interview on Channel 4 News tonight. I shall leave you to make up your own mind. One thing though he mentioned a party conference in the coming days at which various papers will be submitted. One will be on equalities which sounds as if his party is going to stir the pot on the trans issue which should please WoS coterie.

    Compare and contrast Mr Salmond and the video of Mhairi Black. Which one is the future and which the past? Who gives hope and promise for the future?

    Good article.

  47. raineach says:

    I think AS is motivated by revenge against Nicola, and the presence of the Heavy Revvie does not reassure me. I fear he intends to win enough seats to deny the SNP an overall majority and then demand as his price Nicola’s resignation [which apart from anything else would lose us the referendum]. I wonder if all this is part of why the SNP have hinted at a coalition with the Greens?

    • Legerwood says:

      He was asked tonight on Ch4 news if he would vote for Ms Sturgeon for FM. Not sure he answered. Link to the interview is in my post at 8.24pm above

      • James Mills says:

        That answer ” not sure ” says it ALL ! He is a cnut of the First order !

        • Jim says:

          AS did not say he was “not sure” that he would vote for NS. Legerwood said that Legerwood was not sure that AS answered. Your misquoting is unfortunate.
          AS said in interviews this evening that he’d be delighted to vote for NS in the constituency vote.

    • grizebard says:

      Interesting point, that. To be back in the driving seat with a woman once more in dependence to him. (Creepy.)

      Oh, and “Heavy Revvie” – cute, very cute! {laugh}

  48. Dr Jim says:

    I’m saying this for the last time then I’m out

    Nobody but nobody can guarantee the outcome of the list and those who say they can are being disingenuous, since the SNP came to power with Alex Salmond his strategy was both votes SNP to maximise the count and that strategy led to an overall majority, now Mr Salmond is telling you that the strategy he came up that previously won is wrong and you should vote for him to create his new buzzword supermajority, it’s crap on a stick and he knows it and if you’re daft enough to fall for it the odds are a Unionist will slip right thought the division where you might have voted Green for example depriving both SNP and Green of a possible seat but more importantly you would have successfully reduced the SNP vote count which following the election Westminster will throw in Nicola Sturgeon’s face

    That’s your Alex Salmond Wings over another big ego plan

    Do folk have to wait until Salmond appears on Big Brother sipping a saucer of milk before they get it

    Alex Salmond has no interest in aiding the cause of Independence or he would have made an abject apology for his previous behaviour and wholeheartedly backed FM Nicola Sturgeon and apologised to her for claiming she fitted him up, none of that was forthcoming because his ego and desperate desire for recognition won’t allow him to grow up and be a man

    Alex Salmond is a petulant child, but he’s playing his petulance out at the expense of an entire nation just like a kid stamping his feet in a supermarket queue for sweeties, he has just transformed himself into George Galloway crossed with Gordon Brown, Scotland is driving a new Rolls Royce at the moment, Salmond is telling to to get out and get into his 8 year old Vauxhall Corsa that disnae have an MOT

    There’s one more question for voters to ask themselves …………Why now! why not two years ago? three years? four even?…..Why now!

  49. weegingerdug says:

    Everyone: I am really struggling with post stroke fatigue this evening and am going to bed early. So I will not be keeping an eye on the comments and won’t be here to authorise any comments that get trapped by the moderation filters. They will just have to wait until I’m back tomorrow.

    • take care of yourself paul

    • Wee CB from Dumfriesshire says:

      Please take care of yourself, Paul. Rest up. Your blog is a much needed voice of reason at the moment, thank you so much. I’ve sent a link of WGD to my friends in London who have been asking about what’s been happening this afternoon and support Scottish independence for us. Still both votes SNP.

    • Petra says:

      Look after yourself Paul. I’m exhausted with it all so goodness only knows how you must be feeling X

      • Tam the Bam says:

        Take solace in the knowledge SCOTLAND beat FRANCE tonight in Paris!
        Sleep easy good buddy.

  50. grizebard says:

    This new party is a dangerous tactic typical of a gambler

    Oh, I think you’ve got to the very heart of it there, Paul.

    I’ve always been an impatientista, wishing that the SNP – Pete Wishart and all – would focus far more on putting a strong case for independence instead of all this displacement-activity do-goodery and internal wrangling, but neither am I an impetuous fool eager to go where angels fear to tread. This new development may be attractive to those with a need for instant gratification, but that could soon enough go sour. (Especially if Stu Campbell is involved.) This is just not the way to win over those who still need persuading.

    One also might suspect something a little sinister behind it all, as someone upthread mentioned, a need to oppose “the monstrous regiment of women” and personally dominate again.

  51. bringiton says:

    Been getting my ear bent all day,since 2 pm,by my wife saying the same thing
    I have to agree.

  52. dorancaird says:

    Salmond” the kingmaker” . That’s his fantasy role ,I think. Hubris. Like a press photo of Tommy Sheridan,before HIS.fall. On his office wall he had his heroes. Robert Burns, Che Guevera and one Tommy Sheridan. Hubris.

    • James Mills says:

      Almost correct – Salmond the KING !
      His every action recently shows that he can’t stand the thought of Nicola Sturgeon leading Scotland to Independence . It has to be HIM or NOBODY !

      • maceasy says:

        Salmond the King, or Nicola the Queen. Take your pick. They would both be better off handing over to the next generation. They have shot their bolt. We don’t need royalty. We do need parties with integrity who have high quality candidates, qualities rather lacking up to now.

        • Tam the Bam says:

          ‘The next generation’…Indeed it will surely come to pass…but who…in your estimation…is best placed..currently.. to lead the cause of Scottish Independence?

        • grizebard says:

          Oh, you evidently haven’t noticed the unrelenting hard work done by the FM and her government on all our behalf over the last year, winning many hearts-and-minds of previous doubters in the process, so I wonder what planet you have been on the last while. While the other character you mention has been trying to avoid a jail term for being rather too free with his favours, and continually whinging about how hard life has been for poor old him. Haven’t observed much public utility there.

          So kindly take your false equivalencing, you ingrate, and stow it where the sun don’t shine.

      • Margaret Barrie says:


  53. A C Bruce says:

    That’s AFI withdrawn all their candidates. I wonder if ISP will do the same.

    • Alex Clark says:

      A pro-independence party has agreed to stand down its candidates for the upcoming Scottish Parliament election after the launch of another group by Alex Salmond on Friday.

      Action For Independence (AFI), initially formed under the name Alliance for Independence last summer, confirmed the move in a bid to put “Scotland before Party”.

      It comes just 12 hours after the party announced its 42 list candidates for the May 6 vote.

  54. yesindyref2 says:

    And back up to 8th in the world reankings (I thinnk).

  55. Bob Agassi says:

    Stu did a great job on the Acorns Antiques press conference, it’s the best I’ve heard him 🙂

    from 39:50

    • Petra says:

      Hahaha. Someone shut him up 😀.

      • Eilidh says:

        Quote from a friend who is a newish soft Indy supporter. Alex Salmond’s press conference looked like a hostage video. 😉 Nuff said. She sent me a link to it but I am not bored enough to watch it

  56. afi only policy…………max the yes

    to that end, we withdraw

  57. Me Bungo Pony says:

    The major threat of this new development is the impetus it might give to unionists to “max the union” vote. It could encourage unionists to vote for Con/Lab/Lib in the constituency, depending on who is best placed to challenge the SNP, with subsequent losses.

    If Alba take enough votes off the SNP to depress their chances of taking List seats, while not enough to gain any themselves, the consequences could be catastrophic for Indy.

    • havers mon ami, alba arnt standinvg in any constituency, in 7 ovf thve 8 regions, 850k sbnp list votes elected one snp list msp, maree tod, what is thje problem?

      • Tam the Bam says:

        Schrodinger (I remember you well from times gone by on what was then…’a healthy forum for political discourse’) .

        Dont you think its always profitable to read one’s own intended posting before posting?
        i.e. proofread?

      • Me Bungo Pony says:

        I’m not talking about Alba (are they actually allowed to call their party simply “Scotland”; seems wrong) putting up candidates in the constituencies. I’m talking about unionists deciding to “game the system”, in response to Salmond’s party, voting tacticaly in the constituencies and thus reducing the SNP representation from them.

        If Alba also reduce the SNP list vote (which they will), the losses will not be made up there which will be catastrophic for Indy. Especially if Alba flops (which there is every chance it will) and gain no seats at all.

        The NE, where Salmond is standing, needs every SNP vote possible if the Tories (in Aberdeenshire and Angus) and Labour (in Aberdeen and Dundee) aren’t to make possible gains. And a divided list there would be a disaster.

        The very existence of Alba could scunner enough voters where Indy is concerned (Salmond and Campbell being two of the most unpopular figures in Scottish politics) and depress ALL the pro-Indy parties vote which would, again, be a disaster.

        I held Salmond in high regard …. until last Summer. Now I “couldn’t see him far enough” as they used to say. He is risking Independence in a high risk gamble that only seeks to benefit him. Those who would aid him in this need to decide whether Salmond or Independence is more important to them.

    • grizebard says:

      Yes, and the BritNats already have established form for this in other FPTP elections. All putting up dummy candidates with no spending except one. I seem to recall that’s how they previously displaced Salmond, for one. Just one more fatal flaw in the theory.

      And a constituency lost to the SNP likely knocks the Angry Party out of contention in the list. But no problem anyway if your main intention is just to be a wrecker.

  58. Capella says:

    So AfI announce 42 candidates 12 hours ago and now have stood them all down in favour of Alex Salmond’s party. Bye bye Tommy Sheridan, Craig Murray & Co – or are they now going to hop ove to the alex Salmond party?

    What a circus.

  59. Terence Callachan says:

    It would in my opinion be helpful if people here said where they live if they are voting other than SNP 1&2
    It would also be helpful to say which of the party,s you are voting for and why you think doing so will increase the chance of more LIST MP,s for Scottish independence

    The secret of success here is for people to know if where they live is a place where giving their second vote will likely gain a LIST MP for one of the other indy party,s

    Even better if someone can at least list a top ten of places where giving the second vote to a party other than SNP will likely gain an indy supporting LIST MP

  60. Golfnut says:

    The SNP have already provided the methodology for achieving a ‘ super majority ‘ SNP 1&2 plus a now probable coalition with the Greens. It’s right there in front of you. Don’t be distracted by the ‘ getting rid of the likes of murdo, getting rid of the yoons out of Holyrood ‘ that won’t
    happen, it can’t happen because the voting system we currently operate won’t allow it.
    Everything else is a distraction that only assists the British establishment and should be viewed clearly as an attempt to undermine the SNP vote. The evidence is right here, on this blog, clearly attempting to wean votes away from the SNP. There is absolutely no effort being made to make new converts to the independence movement, only to strip support from the SNP.
    Make your own minds up on the merits of the arguments of course, but as someone who once supported the idea of a list only party, I realised that to many vested interests and personal agendas were being served, to many attempts to split the Yes movement for me not to question the motives of the involved. SNP1&2.

  61. Terence Callachan says:

    Dont fight the other indy party,s they are without doubt on our side

    OK there is disagreement about the best formula to get the biggest number of pro indy seats
    but that does not mean we are on opposite sides

    Even if you absolutely think SNP 1&2 is the best formula you might be wrong
    We must resist the temptation to be unhelpful

    The way forward is to look at past voting data and pick out the places where SNP 1&2 is best
    and let other indy party,s contest the rest and in doing that we will help each other so that those other indy party,s do in fact tell their supporters to give their first vote to SNP

  62. yesindyref2 says:


    The thing is this, the trolls have been around saying “I’m not voting SNP for the constituency OR the list”, and there are ordinary people who’ve been saying “Me too”.

    What this means is the alternative list party has the official policy of SNP 1, Alba 2. And that means the trolls can’t get away with it so much now, and it might stop drift from SNP 1. And then we see just how much Alba and ISP take away from the List, and how popular Salmond actually is, so that;s the up side of this ego-trip.

  63. JoMax says:

    How any of this charade is going to encourage No voters over to Yes beats me.

    • Terence Callachan says:

      It wont discourage NO to YES voters people change for reasons that affect their daily lives and give them hope for the future they are not interested in extra political party,s whos main policy is Scottish independence

      If you move from NO to YES its because you want Scottish independence
      Once we tell people which of the partys is best served by getting their 2nd vote theres no problem

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Exactly that Jo.

  64. Terence Callachan says:

    The green party has been accepted widely as a pro scottish independence party.
    If we can work with the green party we can work with ALBA and ISP etc
    SNP 1st vote and 2nd vote to SNP or ALBA or ISP depending on which has the best chance

    The secret is getting the message across to indy supporters which of the three has the beat chance pf picking up the LIST seat where they live

    Coordination , agreement , sensible communication is required , its not difficult and if done properly in a well organised fashion of cooperation it will pay high dividends in terms of LIST seats for pro indy partys


    According to The National’s fact checking service Nicola Sturgeon was also loose lipped about ‘once in a generation’, so where does that leave the whole ‘Alex Salmond bad’ argument?

  66. yesindyref2 says:

    Ineresting point made by a Wings poster, that anyone supporting Alba on the list, actually NEEDS to vote SNP for the constituency, to increase the SNP seats and hence the divisor for the list. So if for instance the SNP get 8 Constituency, divide their 45% on the List by 9 = 5% – likely 1 on the List, But if they get 9, divide by 10 = 4.5%, and likely don’t get one on the list. That increase the chance of Alba getting a seat, though with 1% they still don’g get one. Oh well, shame, what a pity.

    But yeah it’s true, to optimise their chances they really DO have to vote SNP 1.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, someone else there made that exact point.

    • jfngw says:

      The disingenuous ones are tweeting out how magnanimous AS is telling you to vote SNP on the constituency vote. Of course he is, the less constituency seats the SNP take the less likely his party has of taking any seats. He really needs the SNP to take all the constituency seats to maximise his chances.

  67. Petra says:

    What a circus right enough, Capella, especially when we see Alex Salmond supporters on another blog still saying that they won’t vote for the SNP. Somehow or another they seem to have missed the blooming point, as per usual. The ONLY political party capable of achieving independence IS the SNP, NOT Alba, and if the SNP don’t do well in May Alex Salmond and Alba will be going nowhere.

    In other words (the severely damaged) Alex Salmond’s ”success” is TOTALLY reliant on Nicola Sturgeon / SNP. He is doing no more than piggybacking on Nicola Sturgeon’s phenomenal success garnered over a number of years of working her backside off for us 24 x 7 (Brexit, pandemic etc, etc) and then following being off the scene for 4 years and with 7 short weeks to go to the election along comes Alex. What a shyster! And if AS and Alba ruin out chances of getting independence Alex Salmond will be authorising a new book, i.e. ”The dream that I, Alex Salmond, killed stone dead.”

    He was on the news tonight, STV, and the presenter’s final word on the matter was, ”Along comes Alex Salmond saving the UK.” With that in mind, it’s no wonder that the other shyster, Campbell, is over the moon. In his latest 12 line blog he has the brass neck to say, ”Wings Over Scotland has never told its readers who to vote for.’ Taking everything into account, their personality traits, they clearly deserve each other. Scotland to my mind would be better off without either of them.

    • Margaret Barrie says:

      What an excellent response, Petra, on all fronts. You hit the nail firmly on the head.
      Could not agree more with your summation.

  68. Margaret Barrie says:

    Paul, of all the brilliant blogs you have posted, often at very critical times for Independence supporters, this surely must be the most important, timely intervention ever.

    Your analysis articulates my thoughts exactly and I hope all committed Independence activists and supporters read and digest your wise words.

    My choice remains a very definite SNP 1 & 2.

  69. Petra says:

    A couple of links from Ann’s blog.

    ”Sir John Curtice: The Conservatives have managed to bang on about it [independence] so much in the last four years. They have indeed succeeded in persuading people that it IS an important subject. video.”

    And ..

    ”James O’Brien argues Nicola Sturgeon’s position may have been strengthened by ‘forces in London trying to interfere in Scottish affairs’.”

  70. Derek says:

    “Now instead of simple slogan SNP 1& 2 the voter needs to be guided by a complex formula which will differ in different areas and which in any case will not become apparent until immediately before the vote”
    I’m an SNP member, but right now it’s pretty obvious to me that SNP2 has little chance of gaining regional seats in areas where its constituency vote is strongest. I’d expect the SNP to get a few regional seats in areas like the borders, or NE Scotland, where they’re less likely to get constituency seats.
    In areas such as Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee where the SNP are strong, it’s unlikely they’ll get regional seats and therefore votes for the Greens (or indeed Alba) may gain traction.
    You don’t need a degree in rocket science to work that out, but I’ll wait until much nearer the time to see how the land lies.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      In other words..’complicated’.
      The average voter votes either…1) read it in the papers…2) saw it on the telly or 3) got it online.
      Now here’s the thing….my generation always but ALWAYS took their news from their newspaper.
      Newspapers….if they havent already gone will in all likely hood be gone shortly
      In saying that…I want The National to flourish….however imperfect it may be..

  71. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, I wonder if Pamela Nash will now join the Alba Party and pujt herself forward as a candidate?

    • jfngw says:

      I’m rooting for Kezia Dugdale so Wings has to start promoting her.

      • Lol, that cheered me up more than Scotland’s win.


      • post of the day, jfngw.

        I’ll be voting for an actual person, someone who has been there for five years, walking the walk, talking the talk, at both constituency and regional level, not a bunch of nobodies, last minute freeloaders looking forward to a Golden ticket, £1200 a week, plus exes, to sit on the benches, involved in taking forward Scotland, pre and post Self Determination, of whom I have never heard, who may have little or no experience of anything.
        Salmond is in it for himself..nobody else.

        SNP1 and 2 where I live.

  72. yesindyref2 says:

    Pronunciation by the way, for pedants elsewhere trying to be pedantic. Our word Alba for Scotland might be Gaelic in origin rather than Latin (white as in albino for instance), but it’s so much in common use in Scotland that it’s in our English language and in Scots, different dialects or even languages (to avoid the dialect v language argument), so the way Salmond pronounced it is fine; it’s the same way most people in Scotland would pronounce it. There are a lot of “Alba X” businesses, just ask any of them, specially plumbers in Glasgow or wherever.

    Just thought I’d sayh that, to save the unwary embarrassment.

  73. cadogan2 says:

    PLEASE can people stop saying SNP ‘one’ and ALBA ‘two

    this is not a local election

    It’s SNP ‘constituency’ and ALBA ‘list’

    • Terence Callachan says:

      cadogan2 you are correct but i think people do understand that one refers to constituency and two refers to list as you say or rather regional to give it its true name

      • Tam the Bam says:

        You’d be surprised ….last election (Dec’19) when I was casting my vote I overheard one confused chap say…….
        “Which wans the SNP?
        The Electoral helper said in response: ” You’ll find his/her name on your polling ballot sir.”
        ” …which wans that?”…came the response.

        ……oh my lord.

  74. scrandoonyeah says:

    I suggest having a read of Barrhead boy’s latest blog

    • jfngw says:

      Very amusing, he has his head so far up AS’s backside he can probably tickle his epiglottis. I read enough vitriol on his twitter feed in the last few months to last me the rest of my life (that’s not actually that long now mind you).

    • Terence Callachan says:

      scrandoonyeah , ive read it , its very good and accurate in my view

    • Eilidh says:

      Been there once. Not a blog I care to read again

      • malkymcblain says:

        I unsubscribed from Barrhead Boy and Yours for Scotland last week. Campbell was one thing but those two were quite unhinged. When Lawson started the Trumpian Lock her up! And stating that Jackie Baillie was their last hope on the committee to bring down the FM I’d had enough. Perhaps MI5 have the goods on them as well as Campbell.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Now why on earth would I do that?

  75. Dr Jim says:

    We’re all blessed that all the folk who hated Nicola Sturgeon five minutes ago have arrived to help us all get the kind of Independence they tell us we all want
    Please believe us they say we know what we’re talking about as they crook their fingers towards us beckoning saying the words “Trussst in meee and you’ll seee” while the look in their eye is as friendly as can be their intentions are just as malicious as they were five minutes before

    They stink the place up as badly as the blog that sent them here with the word of the guru
    They talk of list seats as though that’s what’s required without ever mentioning where the votes have to come from, because no Unionist party is going to give their votes to the new worship Salmond party are they, what do they say about that, oh the soft no voters will vote Salmond, well no they won’t they’re already going to vote SNP because they never liked Salmond before so they certainly won’t like him anymore now will they

    Such a flood of posters jumping on the WGD to hail their good news except every serious political commentator tonight has condemned it as a political revenge stunt by a bitter twisted individual set on destroying the SNP vote as much as he can, and all the commentators now are trying to figure out is when it’s over what is Salmond’s reward for this and who’s paying for it

    Maybe ask Ruth Davidson or David David they’ll know the answer

    • jfngw says:

      One tweeted ‘The Boss is back’, jeez if knew they could get Bruce Springsteen was onboard I might given them a second look.

      • Dr Jim says:

        Sky news called him a sad man out for revenge against a better and more competent leader who is better at everything he was not and he can’t stand the idea that she’s a woman who has increased the SNP vote and support for Independence, and that’s both Tory and Labour Journo’s saying this, and again suspect about where the money’s coming from

        Watch for Mings the merciless announcing the crowd funder

        • jfngw says:

          They certainly need it, that presentation looked decidedly amateurish, I can do better lighting in my house. It comes across like the Brexit party, a vehicle for an individual with a few hangers on.

      • ‘Like a freight train running through the middle of my head?’

    • grizebard says:

      …a political revenge stunt by a bitter twisted individual set on destroying the SNP vote as much as he can

      You may say that, Dr.J, but I couldn’t possibly comment. {grin}

    • Terence Callachan says:

      Dr Jim , i think the AS v NS nonsense is over
      ALBA is not new we have known about it for ages , Alex Salmond joining it gives it oomph and more importantly it is a place where those who like AS can vote for Scottish Independence

      Would you rather those people , and they may be numerous , just did not vote ?
      We dont want to make the same mistake that we were criticising them for just days ago

      As long as everyone gives both of their votes to a pro independence party we will do well

      Please try and put forward welcoming comments for those who want to vote for Scottish independence and save the negativity for those who want to vote unionist

      • Dr Jim says:

        Alex Salmond is not pro Independence, Alex Salmond is pro Alex Salmond and that faux conciliatory tone you’ve been spouting for long enough doesn’t fool anyone, the only negative people are those who support this drama queen of a failed ego in his campaign of revenge

        • Tam the Bam says:

          Dr Jim
          Alec Salmond is 100% in favour of Scottish Independence.

          Alec Salmond also suffers from the same narcissism affliction infecting Messrs Trump & Campbell.

          Therein lies the problem….what is the common trait?……they never apologise.

          • James Mills says:

            To a narcissist ME always Trumps ( see what I did there ! ) any other consideration – so Independence is subordinate to the face in the mirror for Alex .

    • Jonathan Marshall says:

      Tells me everything I need to know if the establishment and their MSN lapdogs are unhappy…serious political commentators? Perhaps the whole YES movement should give them no ammunition…we have been supplying them with plenty on all blogs recently. I like reading Pauls contributions… have done for years not only for the content but because of excellent comments by posters such as Jack Collatin or Terrance Callanchen and yourself even though I sometimes don’t agree fully with the views I also like the fact Paul has striven to continue to promote the positive aspect of Independence through all the rubbish and disagreements over the last few years. So now we are where we are about 6 weeks before the next election perhaps all Parties politicians blogs and the posters on them within the Yes movement should stop attacking others who have different views and get on with promoting how successful an independent Scotland could be with a little hard work. Whatever our differences we all need to get along just enough to achiev the end result.

  76. epicyclo says:

    SNP 1+1 voters are Tory enablers in the list seats.

    Look at 2016. Count the number of SNP votes that went to waste when the d’Hondt formula depreciated them to 1/10 of the value of a Tory vote.

    I kicked myself for being sucked into the SNP 1+1 and that’s when I realised that SNP1+1 is a tactic to ensure that no other independence parties thrive, even though it means we get English controlled parties instead.

    Don’t believe me. Learn how d’Hondt works. Do the calculations yourself, preferably just before the election day.

    Only in very limited circumstances will SNP 1+1 be worthwhile, eg if they are unlikely to win the constituency seat.

    • Dr Jim says:

      This is the exact opposite of what Salmond used to say when he was in power and came up with both votes SNP so was he lying then or lying now

      • Terence Callachan says:

        Dr Jim thats not true and you know it , for the 2014 indyref we didnt have several independence party,s we only had SNP

        You can refer to the socialist workers party as an indyref party but it wasnt really it was split and leaning just as much towards Labour in power again as it was favouring Scottish independence

        What we have now with these one policy new indy partys are LIST seat only partys they are only after the regional ( 2nd vote)
        Thats new

        • Pogmothon says:

          The Green Party have been in every election to Holyrood since it’s inception.
          So why exactly would you trust Alba over the Greens.
          When the record and actions of the MEMBERS of both towards Scottish nationhood in the past six years are clear to see.
          Just take a minute and think about that, all the actions of all the members of each entity.
          Before you give me a knee jerk re-action.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Look at 2011. SNP 16 list seats, and if they hadn’t got that, Salmond would not have had an overall majority with just 53 constituency seats, and Indy ref 1 would never have happened.

      • @dads

        the reason they didnt win 15 list seats in 2016 is because they won many more constituencies, not because snp folks lent the greens their list vote

        in 2016 in mid scot & fife the unionists won 6 of the 7 available list seats and the greens won the 7th and last seat. if the voters who voted green on the list in this region had taken your advice and voted snp instead………….

        all 7 of the available list seats would have been won by the unionists. fact

        in 2016, in 7 of the 8 regions, only one snp list msp was elected, maree tod, that was from 850,000 snp list votes

        in 2016 the snp got 46.5% of the constituency vote, polls at the moment show support for the snp to be between 53-56% which means they are likely to win even more constituencies than in 2016. which means the will win even fewer list seats in may.

        the snp 1 & 2 is a dangerous mantra that could very well insure the loss of an indy party majority in the next holyrood parliament

        but you already know this, i told you before and after the 2016 holyrood election

        • Statgeek says:

          “polls at the moment show support for the snp to be between 53-56%”

          Last five polls have an average of 47.6%, with the highest being 50%. Not sure what polls you’re looking at.

          Taking five-poll averages gives seat estimate of:

          SNP 64 (+1)
          Con 25 (-6)
          Lab 24 (n/c)
          Grn 10 (+4)
          Lib 6 (+1)

          +5 Indy / -5 union

          Ironically, if we split the Green regional vote in half and give it to another extra party (e.g. Alba), we get:

          SNP 65 (+2)
          Con 29 (-2)
          Lab 25 (+1)
          Lib 7 (+2)
          Grn 3 (-3)

          -1 Indy / +1 union

          Simply because the Greens have been polling higher than the Lib Dems, but splitting their vote in half relegates them back to 2011/2016 levels of voting intention, and they don’t nick a few regional seats off the unionist parties.

          So…make of that what you will. 😀

    • Old Pete says:

      SNP 1 and 2 in Southern Scotland. Siobhan Brown is an excellent SNP candidate where I live, she needs ALL Independence supporters to back her to beat incumbent John Scott Tory / Unionist MSP.

      • Terence Callachan says:

        Smart move Old Pete

        Me in Dundee was going to be SNP 1 and 2 because there was no other profitable choice for indy
        But now that ALBA is in town

        Its SNP 1 ALBA 2
        Dundee is a definite SNP constituency win so giving them the LIST vote as well is a complete waste of time

        • Statgeek says:

          Bear in mind that the regional list vote isn’t just Dundee. Take into account all the other constituencies in the North East Scotland region (where the Tories scored well in 2017 / 2019). Just saying.

    • grizebard says:

      “Do the calculations yourself” – and there’s the inherent problem. You can’t do the calculations by yourself. Everybody has to know what everybody else intends for it to work, and no amount of Salmond fairy dust can change that. This kind of theoretical spreadsheetery reminds me of what a French observer said while watching that dreadful charge of the Light Brigade, except here it’s “c’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la politique”.

      • Terence Callachan says:

        Grizebard , that might be true where you live but here in Dundee West SNP will win easily no fairy dust required just plain common sense

        • Dundee West is one constituency. You have to consider all of the seats in your region (NE). Which, as you’ll recall, returned several Tories at recent UKGE’s.

          Can you say, with absolute certainty, that all the seats are shoo-ins for the SNP?

          • Terence Callachan says:

            There are a majority in NE for indy if they all vote for the same party
            Tactical voting Ruth Davidson called it i think

      • Dr Jim says:

        Exactly grizebard you can’t calculate an unknown quantity so the people touting it are malicious in their intent, and if you put your trust in folk who advocate such folly why do they not present the evidence that it’ll work, they can’t so why are they doing it, leaving the last question why would anyone put their trust in a person who refuses to even acknowledge his past behaviour except to continue to say “I was found not guilty” as if that constitutes exoneration from admitting the behaviour in the first place

        I’m sick to my stomach of this sordid business from a sordid wee man

  77. Capella says:

    If their tweets are any indication this new Alex Salmond Party is basically an ant-SNP one man band. Perhaps I’ll wait until they’ve sobered up and stopped high fiving themselves to see if there’s any more substance than what a charismatic genius Alex Salmond is.

    I thought these bloggers were opposed to personality cults?

  78. malkymcblain says:

    This all smells a bit MI5ish. Don’t underestimate the British state. It reminds me of Bruce’s fathers words to young Robert in Braveheart. I paraphrase “All men betray get used to it”. If individuals are threatened with exposure then they will betray in order to save their own skin. And so Wallace ended up hung drawn and quartered and sent to the 4 corners of the island as a warning. Yes I know Braveheart was just a movie but Longshanks like the modern British state knew how to divide and rule.

    I expect incoming criticism.

  79. Terence Callachan says:

    I think its fair to say there are two “pinch points”

    There will be a hardcore number of seats where the SNP have no chance of winning the constituency seat but they might win the LIST seat and in those areas both votes should go to SNP

    There will also be a hardcore number of seats where people know through their local voting history that SNP will definitely win the constituency seat they will know for sure that there is no doubt whatsoever that SNP will win the constituency seat so those people will happily give their 1st vote to SNP but know that giving their second vote , the regional LIST seat vote will be wasted if they give it to the SNP so its a no brainer to give the 2nd vote to an indy party other than SNP so that this other indy party can win the LIST seat thereby preventing a unionist getting it

    In the middle of these two hardcore groups of certainty
    Lies a number of seats where its just too close to call, these are the seats where SNP are not guaranteed to win the constituency seat so its surely a risk to do anything other than give both votes to SNP in these places

    • “…they will know for sure that there is no doubt whatsoever that SNP will win the constituency seat…”

      You can’t possibly know that, no-one can.

      Do you honestly think that the Unionists won’t pull every dirty trick in the book, and some that aren’t, to unseat the SNP?

      The whole point of SNP, SNP is to limit damage where constituencies go south. Trying to game the system risks losing more than any potential gains.

      The d’Hondt or AMS system for Scottish elections was deliberately chosen to make majorities almost impossible; I recall your hero saying exactly that during the results coverage in 2016. The margins are extremely tight & there’s extremely limited room for manoeuvre, so consequently the risks are high.

      My major concern is that even if the SNP get a similar number of seats; the Greens get squeezed & Alba get fewer seats, if any at all, than the Greens lose – we could quite plausibly end up with a Unionist majority of 1.

      I hope it doesn’t happen, but it could.

      • Terence Callachan says:

        Oh you can Drew Anderson
        Just look at historical records
        In most parts of Scotland it doesnt change

        And AS is just the right person to tell you which parts of Scotland will give a majority to a indy LIST candidate

        • grizebard says:

          On the one hand you claim that nuthin’ changes, and in the next breath you tell us that The Great (wannabe) Leader will change everything. Duh.

      • Terence Callachan says:

        Remember this , ALBA are not contesting every seat
        They are only going for LIST seats
        Just those they know SNP will win the constituency
        And those where SNP will have a high chance of winning the constituency

        Where to draw the line is for someone with expertise to decide but if ALL indy supporters vote
        SNP 1 and ALBA 2
        or SNP both votes
        We will get more LIST seats and the number of SNP constituency seats will be unaffected

        • Keep going Terence, the more you dorksplain it with your oh-so-condescending MAJISCULES, the more likely your argument disappears up it’s own arsehole.

          “…Just those they know SNP will win the constituency…”

          You keep saying this, but I repeat, nobody knows FOR CERTAIN how the constituencies will pan out. Your argument is entirely predicated on a variable being a known quantity, which I & others have repeatedly told you cannot possibly be guaranteed or known until after the fact.

          • Tam the Bam says:

            Exactly this.
            No one can possibly know how a constituency will vote 6 weeks from an election.
            I would have thought thats pretty obvious.

          • Margaret Barrie says:

            Absolutely correct.

  80. Terence Callachan says:

    I have never believed that there is a war between AS and NS
    I am happy to believe that both are heros in their own way
    Thats not to say AS did not do things he should not have done
    I am however convinced that if he was breaking the law the court would have decided so

    Clearly there is a group of people who practically hate AS and think him somewhere between a molester and a rapist but if that was the case the law would have reached a different conclusion

    Clearly there is a group of people who practically hate NS and think she is somewhere between a habitual liar and a traitor working undercover for westminster
    I am convinced however that dealing with the AS court case and covid and brexit has been extremely difficult and only manageable by a dedicated honest and reliable person

    There is no way a political party can register with the electoral commission if they believe them to be a part of an existing political party

    Whichever group you throw you hat in with you deserve to have a Scottish independence party that you are thoroughly happy to vote for.
    I therefore find that i am happy to see both groups getting the chance to vote for a party they trust

    We should all try and be content that all factions of indy supporters / voters now vote for a party they trust

    Lets move forward together and refocus on who the enemy really is

    • grizebard says:

      “I have never believed that there is a war between AS and NS” We know, you keep on telling us. {sigh} But you’re near alone in that delusion. Any sentient being who actually watched (and registered) Nicola’s speech at the misbegotten VONC debate, for example, would easily realise that notion is totally unsustainable. Like it or not.

      Dream on in your wee pipe dream bubble if you must, but just wishin’ so and sayin’ so don’t make it so.

  81. Tam the Bam says:

    Completely off topic:

    For the uninformed..Scotland beat France tonight in the 6 Nations.

    Something I picked up from when Stuart Hogg (Scotland captain) was asked…
    ” How do you see Scotland progressing from this 6 Nations Stuart?”..he said…..
    …”I’m incredibly proud of my country”…..and there ended the interview.

    Hmmmmmm….Hoggy an Indy guy?…pretty sure Finn Russel is (could be wrong of course).

  82. yesindyref2 says:

    OK, from Aidan O’Neill’s opnion to Keatings – and it is an opinion not a proven “fact”:

    4.1 Although, in enacting the Scotland Act 1998,the devolved Scottish Parliament was undoubtedly established by the Union Parliamentas a body to which decision-making powers had been delegated,that does not entail that the Scottish Parliament therefore owes its legitimacy to the Union Parliament (or indeed the UK Government).

    4.2 The Scottish Parliament was established as a democratically elected legislature with power to make general laws in Scotland. It is directly democratically accountable to the people of Scotland, over whom it exercises its legislative power.

    4.3 The primary mechanism to affirm and maintain the democratic accountability of a democratic legislature consists in regular periodic elections (under a franchise which aspires so far as practicable to universal and equal suffrage) to determine the legislature’smembershipand make-up.

    4.4 On specific issues of political or constitutional moment, however, it might be more appropriate for the legislature to make provision for direct consultation with, and voting by, the people on a specified single issue by way of a referendum. Regular elections and occasional referendums may be seen to be among the measures required to ensure continued democratic accountability in and legitimacy of a polity.

    So, elections bestow legitimacy of the Parliament to make legislation, and from earlier in that document “ the United Kingdom may be said to have evolved over the course of 300 years towards becoming a democracy” the longer the better, and including in that, the more times the electorate choose, i.e. the more elections there are, the better.

    But, part of that process is choice, choice in voting, and hence a multiplicity of parties to vote for. And implicit in the way there is a region vote, a topup vote, the list vote, designed to make the vote representative, that could even be argued to include those who like Sturgeon – and those who don’t. As well as screaming lord sutchers.

    On that basis alone perhaps, Alba Party can be argued to contribute to the “primacy” for want of a word I really have a clue about, of the Scottish Parliament. And note carefully, it is the Parliament, the legislature, that gives legitimacy to Legislation like a Referendum Act, NOT the executive, the Government. Even if they don’t get one single solitary seat – they contributed to the democratic election.

    That’s what I think, I think. I might use my 50-50 though.

  83. Glasgow Gowan says:

    schrodingers cat is a traitor. Why did he say some weeks ago that he would follow Salmond’s advice?

    Joanna Cherry is a traitor.

    Nicola is the most honest and popular politician and will get a thumping majority.

    Paul is right. SNP 1 2 and 3.

    • Lynne says:

      Paul also suggested waiting for Salmond’s advice, adding:
      if the time comes when Alex Salmond advises his supporters not to vote SNP 1 and 2 in May, it will only be because he has an alternative plan which will further the cause of independence and which won’t play into the hands of the Tories or the other British nationalist parties.

      Seems to me that time has come, & the alternative plan proposed by Salmond (SNP1, Alba2) is well placed to further the indy cause. The SNP currently hold only 4/56 list seats, because they perform so well in the constituencies – that’s how d’Hondt works. Voting Alba on the list won’t deprive the SNP of seats, it will prevent them being taken by unionist parties who’ve lost out in the constituencies.

      • IF, IF, IF.

        When Alex Salmond won an actual majority in 2011 it was purely down to the list seats topping up a good, but not spectacular, constituency return. In 2016 the constituency performance was so good it cost list seats & led to the perception that the list votes were “wasted”, that is dangerous thinking.

        The list vote for the SNP is insurance, or an each way bet if you like, if the constituency vote drops, the list compensates. If you try to be cute, try to do “better” with, or “not waste” your list vote, you’re cashing in your insurance policy or heading into spread betting territory; high risks for marginal gains.

        A supermajority for independence parties would be nice, but it’s not essential; any majority will do & I’m worried that a lot of woolly thinking will split the list vote in the worst possible way: no gains & potential, if limited, losses for the SNP; the Greens getting squeezed & losing a seat or two & Alba getting close, but no cigar. It’s an entirely plausible outcome, especially if the SNP don’t make any gains in the constituencies. Bang goes the indy majority, bang goes the divergent policies introduced by the SNP & in comes a glorified coonsil to rubber stamp Westminster’s diktats.

        Bear in mind that all the negative headlines about the indy movement could depress turnout, favouring the Union diehards, so I’d caution against thinking the constituencies are in the bag.

        Both votes SNP.

      • Hamish100 says:

        Sorry lynne there has to be a reason to vote with a new party with no policies other than get Salmond elected at the expense of the snp or Greens.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Y’see….I condemn Glasgow Gowans post as surely I would condemn any other vitriolic attack on persons political or non-political.beliefs.

      Try and express your thoughts/beliefs Glasgow Gowan without being vitriolic.

      I sometimes throw the toys ‘oot the pram’ as well….so you’re not alone.

      But hey…calm doon.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      There is no 3 Glasgow Gowan.

    • schrodingers cat is a traitor.

      wee scone 🙂

    • weegingerdug says:

      Please dial down the rhetoric Glasgow Govan, it doesn’t help.

      • Glasgow Gowan says:

        Sorry Paul.

        I was angry that SNP1/ALBA2 might cost SNP seats.

        If it costs Unionist seats I don’t have a problem.

  84. Petra says:

    Please drop this traitor sh*t, Glasgow Gowan. FGS. We don’t need or want it on this site. And of course Paul’s not here to moderate, so give him a much needed break.

    We know that we have traitors amongst us but calling shrodinger’s cat and Joanna Cherry traitors is not only wrong, imo, but dangerous and slanderous and in fact way beyond the pale. Schrodingers cat has been on the scene as far as I can remember and has been fighting his backside off for Independence and if you find that he disagrees with you then that’s too bad. It’s called freedom of speech and, hey, all about living in a democracy.

    Nicola Sturgeon is honest, so let’s not burden her with any more dishonest, divisive cr*p on here.

    • Tam the Bam says:

      Looking when you posted this Petra…I posted mine much later…now if you excuse me I have to re-constitute my being into a bat.

      Your (neck) always,

      Count Wingula.

  85. DH says:

    My main concern is – will the mainstream Press decide to play this by incessantly focussing on Salmond and the drama? Maybe they will totally go radio silence on Nicola , and put all the attention on mad things Alex Salmond supporters say? Give the impression the bloggers are the front and centre of the independence movement? Hard to say but that is a worry I have – that we will start seeing Alex being interviewed all of the time to be constantly asked about whether he is sorry or not, with the SNP being deprived of screen time. God help us if Alex Salmond ends up in leader debates

    • James Mills says:

      Oh , for sure Alex WILL be interviewed all the time – that is his lifeblood ! If not by the unionist cabal then by his potty-mouthpiece ( the defrocked Rev Campbell ) will put in his 5 cents .

  86. Malcolm H says:

    If you are voting in the election in 6 weeks time for the best opportunity to get a second chance at Independence and before yesterday you were going to vote SNP1 and 2 or SNP1 and Greens 2 in certain areas, why do you think now voting Alba will improve your chances? My guess is that the list votes will be split between the Greens and Alba. This seems a downside to me. In fact I don’t think Alba’s launch yesterday improves the chance of Independence one iota. Any thoughts?

  87. Ken says:

    What a lovely Spring. The pandemic lifting. A new party. Get the party started. YES, YES, YES. Exciting.

  88. Bob Lamont says:

    A new list Party was not exactly unexpected, nor was AS leading it, but aside polarised opinions on the people, motives and potential outcomes, are we perhaps overlooking the extent to which this throws a spanner in the works for the London manipulators rather than Holyrood ?

    Even before the dullard DRoss was platformed, the Tories were struggling to prevent their slide into irrelevance, increasingly reliant on promoting the AS v NS and SNP-splits narrative in the media.
    Despite “pals” in HMS Sarah Smith relentlessly churning out the anti-SNP/SG propaganda (the well trodden Tory tactic of sowing confusion/dismay in the electorate hence lower turnout), polling continued to show a majority for independence.

    Like or loathe him, the media spotlight has been on AS for so long it is impossible for the media to now ignore him, Independence is back on the front page, and comically, the BBC….
    The next few days may prove interesting.

  89. Ken says:

    Oh happy days. Oh happy days YES YES YES

  90. Skintybroko says:

    Home win for us today Tam! Voting 2x SNP, Nicola has done herself and the party a lot of good this past year, Alex on the other hand appears to be toxic amongst the majority of my female acquaintances and if that is replicated across Scotland I do not see his party doing well.

  91. Dr Jim says:

    I suppose there might be one thing to look forward to if Alex Salmond gets himself a seat in my parliament in that every single political party in there will freeze him out so deeply he’ll need to wrap a heater round himself and keep checking his hearing because nobody will talk to him so much he’ll think he’s gone deaf

    • scrandoonyeah says:

      Sarcasm can be so beautiful but also so repugnant.
      Which ever one it is, it says more about the person giving it out than the person receiving it.

  92. Golfnut says:

    Election results 2011, the list voted provided the SNP with a majority gov at Holyrood.

  93. Capella says:

    If Alex Salmond hadn’t submitted a paper to James Hamilton QC alleging that Nicola Sturgeon had broken the ministerial code on several counts, which is a resignation offence, then I might believe that there is no animosity on his part. Fortunately James Hamiton disagreed with AS.

    If Alex Salmond hadn’t launched his new party with the aid of a group of bloggers who have spent the last year furiously attacking Nicola Sturgeon in the most vile and misogynistic manner, then I might believe that there is no animosity on his part. But he did.

    I believe the evidence of my own lying eyes and ears rather than the empty assurances of a failed politician who has already proven to be economical with the truth.

    The only place that votes for the Alex Salmond Party can come from are the SNP or the Greens. I would have had more respect for him if he had joined the ISP to demonstrate that he does indeed support women. But no, he has to have his OWN party where he is the kingpin and calls the shots, surrounded by like minded tired old men and keyboard “bravehearts”.

    “Thinks he’s Archie” as they say in the NE.

    • Dr Jim says:

      All of that Capella

      • Capella says:

        I take no pleasure in saying it. Alex Salmond did a great deal to advance the cause of independence and was a brilliant and effective politician. But he lost the Referendum then he lost his seat in Westminster. Then he fought and won his court cases.

        He has an ego the size of the Titanic and may well suffer the same fate. The grandiosity on display from him and his acolytes is cringeworthy. Let’s see what the feeling is among the voters over the coming weeks.

    • Tatu3 says:

      Very well said Capella

    • Malcolm H says:

      Spot on Capella.

    • Geejay says:

      Exactly, Capella. AS was briefing that she had broken the Ministerial Code which is the same as saying she should resign. Yet he denies he ever said she should resign. That’s true, but he’s being disingenuous (or scheming) because he knows that breaking the Code implies resignation.

      Nor has he ever made a full and public apology, AFAIK, for his behaviour. As a man, I’m fed up with men who think it’s ok to behave badly with female colleagues and it’s ok for other men to support this kind of behaviour and not call it out. I’m very disappointed that some bloggers – not WGD – (who are otherwise quite sensible) don’t see this and feel it’s ok to give their support to AS.

      (for the avoidance of doubt, he was cleared of criminality, but agreed he hadn’t behaved well at times)

      • so basically, what you’re saying is, vote snp 1 and 2 cos alex ate yer hamster? no the most convincing argument i’ve heard, but hey ho

        • Me Bungo Pony says:

          Don’t think Capella mentioned that at all SC. The Salmond/Campbell presence in the present election is very possibly toxic for Indy. Far from “maxing the Yes”, it could very well end up minimising it, if enough people are put off by their reputations and the remaining Indy list vote is split. The problem with “gaming the system” is that it is, by its very nature, a gamble. And more often than not, gambles don’t end the way you would like them to.

          • @bungo my point is that i’m only interested in max the yes, and i think we need to move away from the personnal attacks on alex and nicola. they serve no purpose and add nothing to the discussion which should be about the electoral system. 2 + 2 = 4 , regardless of how smelly one thinks the number 2 is !

      • Capella says:

        Agree. As I said on a previous thread, I know a young woman who was “sleazed over” (her words) by Alex Salmond when she was in her early 20s and worked at the parliament. She has never reported this or made it known to the wider public. I have no doubt that there will be others with a similar experience who will be angry at the witch hunt being pursued by AS’s online brigades against women who have spoken out.

        A bit of humility and an apology from him would have gone a long way to mitigate the effects of his “inappropriate” behaviour. But I haven’t heard one yet.

        • James Mills says:

          When supping with the Devil use a long spoon – or if with Alex Salmond , make sure social distancing is maintained for the ladies present !

  94. J Galt says:

    Until yesterday I had intended not to darken the door of the polling station this time (I would never vote unionist), however now I am inclined to vote SNP 1/ALBA 2. Alex Salmond just secured a constituency vote for the SNP.

    Why don’t we all just agree to disagree about who is the bee’s knees – they both have their faults and the hatred directed at Salmond has been just as intense as that directed at Sturgeon – just listen to some of the more foaming at the mouth specimens on here.

    There’s the inkling of an uneasy way forward here so a time for pragmatism on all sides.

      • J Galt says:

        Time to tone down the rhetoric on all sides and that applies to Messrs Small and Campbell as much as anybody else.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Rubbish. 1 vote for Salmond or is it Alba means nothing in reality or it could mean the Greens lose a seat and Lib Dem’s, labour or tories gain one.
      Elsewhere too many attacking the SNP over the piece will require SNP 2nd votes. The fact you weren’t going to vote until 2pm yesterday may suggest you weren’t interested in Independence in the first instance. Funny that.

  95. Tatu3 says:

    My view, and it’s probably a daft view, is that back in the run up to 2014 ref Westminster knew there was a growing call for independence in Scotland so they thought to nip it in the bud and kill it off they’d “persuade” Mr Salmond to go for it. As some have noted on here occasionally, Salmond was a great debater, but somehow let us down on the TV debates at the time. He also did not have a good enough answer to the currency question, which is odd for a banker.
    My daft theory is that this was intentional. He, and “they” didn’t want us to win. They thought we’d get some votes but we’d lose quite substantially and that the idea of independence would be put to bed for a long time.
    But it didn’t fail as badly as they wanted, in fact we very nearly won. Hence the rapidly brought out VOW.
    And independence has grown still, so they are trying again with Salmond to kill our dream off again.
    Salmon is not a true SNP person. Did he not go back to Labour at one point then returned to SNP? All he wants is power and adulation. He and his party should be ignored, it is not what it seems.

  96. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    Why does Scottish politics always have to be so complicated……..when for so many of us it should just be an easy option to do the right thing for Scotland ?…..IMHO..

    Rhetorical question…………

  97. Terence Callachan says:

    SNP 1 & 2 will hopefully give us a majority on its own but it might not
    Some people will vote SNP 1 & green party 2
    Some Green party & SNP
    Some SNP & ALBA

    To me they are all good options and give us a great chance of getting Scottish independence

    If we get enough seats to move to Scottish Independence i think AS will leave politics and NS will leave once the Scottish independence referendum is complete and a new treaty signed sealed and delivered.

    Scottish independence is more important than AS or NS it will give Scotland the ability to vote for its own government for the first time in three hundred and twenty years
    Okay we have had a tory govt for most of the last 60 yrs that we did not vote for but in addition to that even when we ended up with a government we did vote for we now know that it was a government that did not act in the interests of Scotland.
    The union has never ever been a fair deal for Scotland.
    We now have a chance to change that.

    • Terence Callachan says:

      When people make mistakes , errors of judgement even commit crimes it is my view that we should always give them an opportunity to return to the fold .
      Always leave people an escape route if you corner people its never a beneficial outcome.
      There is nobody on this planet that does no wrong , nobody.
      I dont know the extent of wrongdoings by AS but i think that history will show the court case decision and not the evidence put forward or the opinions before and after.
      I dont think NS did anything to deserve the hate we have seen , she will be remembered for her excellent daily reports on covid19 no matter how the future pans out.
      Politics is a dirty business and it is in my opinion that very likely both of them have done things that they wish they hadnt.
      Some of the best politicians in the world have been found to have not deserved the halo some gave them.
      In my mind the enemy is still Westminster , we hsve a way to go yet before we loosen its grip on Scotland

      • astytaylor says:

        well said, Terry
        Boris is the bad guy, lest we forget.
        tony bliar, maggie t.
        iraq war, WMD, on and on and on/
        priti patel, gove, rees-mogg.
        It IS a dirty business. we need to do better.

      • Capella says:

        Of course, providing they show remorse and apologise. You have to make amends and put right any wrongs that you can before you will be accepted back into the fold. If you double down on your grandiosity you haven’t learned anything at all.

        If someone is behaving badly and upsetting other people, a decent person will get help and stop upsetting people. If they don’t do that then they’re not a decent person at all.

        An apology would be a start.

  98. gullaneno4 says:

    Salmond now joining the Farage, Galloway, types of party leaders
    Appealing to a small group of manly elderly male fanatics and dreamers.

  99. Terence Callachan says:

    Salmond will never join Galloway and Farage

  100. CATHY says:

    Spot on as always. SNP 1& 2 for me although there is some evidence to support SNP1 and Greens 2. IMO Greens are the only other credible pro indy party.

  101. Billy Kay
    One of the most interesting developments from yesterday’s announcement will be seeing Wings and the SNP haters shift gear dramatically. Two days ago we were North Korea, all was lost and Indy was gone…now we’re all on the same page gung ho for the Supermajority. #indyref2

    • Terence Callachan says:

      schrodibgers cat , isnt that a good thing though

      • absolutely Terence, alba is a life line for the fractious yes groups, everyone will need to suck it up, if dugdale joins abla, campbell will have to suck it up as well. as far as I can see WGD is the last one to hold out

  102. Terence Callachan says:

    If the Scottish tories or Labour in Scotland came out in support of Scottish independence tomorrow
    Would you rage with fury or accept them on the basis that they will give Scotland a better chance of getting independence
    Worth thinking about when you talk about ALBA

    • James Mills says:

      I would question their motives – just like Salmond’s !

    • Me Bungo Pony says:

      The Tories/Labour would bring support with them. Alba brings nothing but requires a slice of the existing support.

      More challenging will be persuading almost a million voters, with little interest in politiking and gaming the system, to get on board in sufficient numbers.

      Even more challenging will be ensuring unionists sit on their bahookies and passively allow Salmond’s grand plan to come to fruition.

      Then there’s the challenge of whipping any fractious oddballs who manage to make it into Holyrood (if any) to agree on anything. With only their adulation of Salmond to unite them, they may fall out even quicker than the SSP did.

  103. Terence Callachan says:

    Have a read of talking up scotland and scotgoespop
    Both saying ALBA will help the cause for Scottish independence both saying we have to focus on what will give us the best chance of getting Scottish independence and both saying shutting out one or other side of the AS NS support isnt going to help us do that

    So many people people here included have said hold your nose and vote for this hold your nose and vote for that , well i think a better message is

    vote SNP for the constituency seat and
    vote for a pro scottish independence party for the LIST seat

  104. Martin J Keatings SNP 1 | ALBA 2
    As of 10.01pm tonight, I am formally a member of the Alba Party.

    I am unhappy about how it happened. This is what is called sucking it up and doing what’s mathematically best for the cause of independence.

  105. Dave tewart says:

    Only comment.
    Listen to the valedictory speech from the departing Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament.
    I can’t understand why he supports a unionist party.
    I would be great for them to see the best way forward for this country.
    It won’t be a walk in the park but at least the decisions will be ours.
    Saw a video of Dross being asked if he would apologise to the fishermen about brexit, he just didn’t even try to answer, just diverted to AS, why?, he has nothing to say to sort the problem other that that he was going to talk to them.
    I will accept anybody who will join in becoming a normal country.

  106. Bob Agassi says:

    Oh well Prof Robertson has partaken of the Kool Aid and is endorsing Salmond and his ego driven agenda. Really sad to see intelligent, lucid people getting taken in by this questionable move.

    This will be THE most important election in any of our lives and for the sake of all our futures we had to present and promote a united front with one aim of getting an SNP majority govt.

    But at the 11th hour, like Jaws coming up from the depths, Alex Salmond decides to form a party and contest the election and in so doing guarantees that the indy vote will be split. Well done Alex big round of applause for you or should it be a slow hand clap.

    When Alex and his blogger Wingmen tried to bring down the most decent politician these islands have ever seen I said I would never forgive him, but what he has done with this pop up party is somehow even worse. He may, and I really hope not for all our sakes, cost us the independence majority we need.

    SNP 1 & 2

  107. Dr Jim says:

    Yeah, after two years of pouring out political bile at the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon using as his weapon a 10th rate blogger who was banned from Twitter for hate speech let’s all forgive and forget about who was behind that because some folk think a failed narcissist and female abuser was a great guy once, how very Donald Trump

    This morning I listened to two female Independence supporting journalists who held nothing back on their opinions on Alex Salmond, several adjectives were used in their scathing description of the man, to say they were both equally disgusted is an understatement

    Let’s hope the rest of Scotland’s women feel the same way and dump this arrogant clown right back where he deserves to be, nowhere! and vote SNP 1 X 2 to get us somewhere

    SNP 1 X 2 has been proven to work, Alex Salmond has conclusively and arrogantly proved the opposite

    • Terence Callachan says:

      Dr Jim SNP 1&2 proven to work you say but SNP got 4 LIST seats for a million votes !!
      Is that what you call working ?
      If ALBA can get more than 4 possibly as many as 10 or 12 do you advocate rejecting them because of how you feel about AS

      • Dr Jim says:

        There is nothing anyone can say to me that would make Alex Salmond palatable in the slightest and it’s not just about how I feel, it’s what I know

  108. Capella says:

    Calum Maclean teaches how to say Scotland in Gaelic – useful for future reference:

  109. James Kelly
    Huge credit to AFI for making a very responsible decision in the best interests of the Yes movement. I hope ISP will consider following suit.

  110. yesindyref2 says:

    Here’s Curtice’s view on it, and I’d agree with the maths.—may-cost-snp-majority/

    However, Mr Salmond is not a very popular politician. According to YouGov and Opinium only 14 per cent of all voters have a favourable view of him. Among current SNP voters the figures are 16% and 18% respectively.

    and also the maths for other parties. Basically at most 1 in 6 SNP voters like him, and even if he gets all of them that’s 7%, plus 1-2% from Labour, giving a max of 8-9%. Which would give 1 seat per region = 8 seats on average. No more. But with a target of 6% for a list seat (I disagree – make it 5%), more than half of those who like him would have to vote for him – and many of them would also like Sturgeon.

    Meanwhile if he did get that more than half of the 7% SNP, it would reduce their regional average from 42% to 38%, meaning bye bye most of the SNP list seats – plus probably some of the green seats.

    It depends on how much you think people who like him, would actually vote for him. I’d say less than half, probably way less than half, for a total of 0 seats but one or two lost SNP seats, and 1 or 2 expected green seats. To counter that, if those who vote for him on the list vote SNP constituency whereas otherwise they won’t “I can’t stand that Murrell wummin”, it could give 2 or 3 more on the constituency. That could be a zero sum game – as could the other possibility.

    • but very soon we will have opinion polls which include alba. at which level, eg 10%, will cause you to support them?

    • Terence Callachan says:

      Curtice pops up , you believe him do you ? He is the go to unionist number cruncher known to lie and twist things because he is himself a self proclaimed unionist
      We know already that we cant believe what he says
      Why would you cite him at this time ?
      Because he is an unreliable source if you seek honest appraisal
      Really .

      • Terence , this from Wiki:-

        “The National Centre for Social Research is a registered charity trading as NatCen Social Research and is the largest independent social research institute in the UK. The research charity was founded in 1969 by Sir Roger Jowell[4] and Gerald Hoinville with the aim of carrying out rigorous social policy research to improve society.

        NatCen is best known for its annual British Social Attitudes Survey, founded by the organisation in 1983.[The British Social Attitudes survey is Britain’s longest-running annual survey of public attitudes and can be accessed for research through the UK Data Service. It uses a random probability method and face to face interviews with more than 3,000 people to ensure that it achieves a sample that is representative of Britain. NatCen’s sister organisation, the Scottish Centre for Social Research (ScotCen), carries out an equivalent of the survey in Scotland, called the Scottish Social Attitudes survey.

        In addition to the British Social Attitudes survey, NatCen collects a number of statistics on behalf of the UK government and government bodies. These include the Health Survey for England,[10] the English Housing Survey, The National Diet and Nutrition Surve and the Study of Early Education and Development (SEED)] In 2015 NatCen also launched a new panel survey called the NatCen Panel, which was the first panel survey in the UK to use a probability methodology.”

        John Curtice is a Senior Research Fellow of said National Centre for Social Research. 2/3rds of this ‘registered charity’s’ funding comes from Boris Johnson’s English Government.
        Jo Coburn, Emily Maitlis, Sarah Smith use him as their Go To guy to ‘interpret’ polls on Indyref 2.

        He is a bought and paid for Brit and was knighted as reward for his stellar work in 2014 and 2016.
        They walk among us….
        Salmond on 10% of the vote? Aye, right.
        In 7 weeks time when the vote is in, we shall at last see the last of Salmond.

        There was already an alternative to SNP; the Greens.
        Salmond’s argument falls.
        Vote for me, give me hard won SNP second votes, because..I’m back?

      • yesindyref2 says:

        Terence, as I said: ” and I’d agree with the maths”

        I did maths and stats, and analysis, and used them at times in my previous life to make a living.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      I have made a false presumption there though – that if people don’t like Salmond they won’t vote for Alba. People do still vote SNP even if they don’t like Sturgeon. How similar those would be in proportion, who knows.

      I guess opinion polls will have to be changed now to include Alba, so we might soon find out.

      • so we might soon find out.

        what? how much support alba has or at which point you will support them.

        we seem to have been having this discussion for years dads 🙂

        • yesindyref2 says:

          It’s certainly an old discussion – look what happened to RISE! 10,911 votes, 0 seats.

          • yes, and the snp got one list msp in 7 of the 8 regions for a total of 850,000 snp list votes.

            doesnt your comment just prove my point?

            had rise got more votes in central scotland then they could have taken some of the list seats there. as it happened, the unionists won all 7 available list seats


            • yesindyref2 says:

              2011 – the SNP got 16 seats on the regional vote, only 53 constituency.

              • so what, thats cos the won far few constituency seats than they did in 2016. in 2016 they had 46.5% of the vote, polls today show snp on 53-56%

                • Me Bungo Pony says:

                  What if they don’t get 53-56%? What if, after a relentlous Salmond v Sturgeon sh*tfest on the MSM due to this development, the SNP vote drops to 45-46% and they lose constituencies?

                  I will vote SNP on the List because I believe, more than ever, they will need it. Ironically, I believe the emergence of the Salmond party will not only make an SNP majority less likely, it will probably make a pro-Indy majority harder to achieve.

                  The whole shebang depends on over a million Indies behaving as you want them to, and over a million unionists sitting around passively and letting it all happen. The arithmetic is flawless …. its the real world human behaviour thing that screws it all up.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Who said choice is a good thing?
      Och I want SNP to get more but don’t want the Greens to lose either.
      Could it be some parties dont want either?

      Independence parties.
      Scottish Greens
      Independence in Scotland Party, Alba,
      Action for Independence
      Scottish Socialist Party
      Scottish Democratic Alliance
      Scotia Future

  111. if the snp 1 & 2 line made sense, why are they using the results from holyrood 2011 to justify their claim?

    because the results from holyrood 2016 show their claim to be complete havers, thats why they are conveniently omitting to mention 2016

    we dont all zip up at the back

    • Hamish100 says:

      Are you sure? And will we vote in 2021 the same way as 2016. Can you confirm, absolutely, 100%.
      No didn’t thinks so. Salmond is more toxic than he was when leading the SNP in 2014 before he lost the referendum and resigned. He also lost his seat because not enough voters wanted him. That’s a lesson he has forgotten. So he is hoping for the Fraser and Davidson way in by the list vote but may lose other independence seats as a result.
      If you want independence majority Alba isn’t the way.

      • the future is never a certainty, only the present can be said to actually exist, the past is only a matter of opinion.

        however, while we cant say for certain how folk will vote in a constituency, we can say how they will probably vote.

        believe me, sitting here on the arse end of an uncollapsed 11th dimensional probability wave gives me a unique perspective on such things 🙂

        • Pogmothon says:

          Yeh! as I recall it you are only a theory, or did I completely miss the repeatable experimental proof.

    • Capella says:

      They do use the results from 2016 to justify their claim. Here’s their short election video with the numbers. The Greens gained 4 seats:

      • except its havers capella, if those who had voted green on the list in 2016 in the fife & mid scot region had voted snp, then all 7 of the available list seats would have gone to the unionists. as i said, you can have your own opinions but you cant have your own facts

        that is why the vast majority of those defending snp 1 & 2 use the stats from 2011

        • Were you asleep in schrodinger’s box for five years between 2016 and 2021?
          You missed Brexit?
          You missed Covid?
          You missed Johnson?
          You missed Baroness Rape Clause?
          You missed three years of That Dick Leonard?
          Carjack Lawson?
          4 Jobs Linesman Dross left at our doorstep in a basket with a note pleading ‘Please feed’?

          Take you nonsense back to Campbell’s Kingdom.

        • Capella says:

          I was countering your assertion that they don’t use the numbers from 206. They do.

          You may be right about Fife. Or, the constant anti-SNP rhetoric may reduce the SNP vote. We won’t know until the day whether they will win the majority of Constituency seats. What if you’re wrong and the independence parties are 1 short of a majority? Douglas Ross for FM?

        • Me Bungo Pony says:

          If the SNP list vote matched their constituency vote they would have had a comfortable majority in 2016. That’s a fact SC. It was people not voting SNP 1&2 that cost them their majority. The 2016 election confirms the lesson of the 2011 election.

      • oddly enough, if you read what you posted capella it says

        ” It was the list vote that got the SNP over the majority line in 2011.”

        so in what way are they not ignoring the 2016 results?

    • jfngw says:

      What you are trying to do is have a proportional system manipulated to gain some sort of fake majority, it is irrelevant how many seats you take if you can’t get support for indy above 50% (unless we are also going to ignore the sovereignty issue as well and try and game that as well).

      What you are proposing is those which don’t support independence have their representation reduced, I’m sure that’s a winning way of persuading people, ‘vote for an independent Scotland where we will make sure you have no representation’.

      Getting indy support in the election above 50% is the answer, everything else is just smoke and mirrors.

  112. Bob Agassi says:

    Here’s your hero disgraced ex FM Alex Salmond in 2016, what’s changed ?
    I see the same splitters posting on here as they did on Stu’s blog in 2016, don’t be taken in by them it has to be both votes SNP as disgraced ex FM Salmond put it in 2016….

  113. Bob Agassi says:

  114. Statgeek says:

    A little light-hearted satirical relief, seen elsewhere:

    “Salmond to be prosecuted for starting a party during lockdown”


  115. James Mills says:

    Alex Salmond could defuse SOME of the vitriol that has been directed at him since yesterday’s stuttering launch of his par..sorry Alba , by doing the following :

    Stating unequivocally that , while he is happy to launch and support Alba , he will NOT be a candidate and take up a seat in Holyrood as he fears that may be a distraction and benefit the unionist cause .
    That Alba candidates will NOT stand in areas ( e.g South of Scotland ) where traditionally the SNP is relying on the List for a seat(s) .
    That on election to Holyrood all Alba MSPs will not oppose the SNP’s decision of who should be FM and support that decision .

    This MAY reassure some independent supporters who have the mistaken impression that the Alba Party is simply a vehicle for the ego of a former FM , or perhaps even an attempt to undermine the SNP position at holyrood .

    Over to you Alex !

  116. Not-My-Real-Name says:

    To emphasise my above point in regards to how easy it SHOULD be for those who live in Scotland to just NEVER vote for Unionists parties in ANY election and just vote for a party that is best for Scotland…… I give you Willie Rennie ( yes I know you do not want him…neither do I ).

    Just got ANOTHER election leaflet from Lib Dem Willie Rennie :


    You don’t have to choose between….

    “CHAOS with Boris Johnson…Scotland faces 9 Billion economic hit over Brexit trade deal”.

    “Division with Independence…FM IndyRef2 preparations WILL go ahead”……

    According to Willie Rennie and his Lib Dem party there is a third choice… to what…avoid ?… both of the above ?….Willie forgets we cannot avoid Brexit as has already happened…against the wishes of majority of people who live in Scotland BTW….something else Willie Rennie wants to avoid acknowledging…..and he also cannot avoid a second Indy ref from happening as this, via recent polls, is what, by a majority , people currently living in Scotland want to happen….also something Willie Rennie wants to avoid acknowledging…..

    Willie’s Third Lib Dem way is….

    “Willie Rennie’s Scottish Liberal Democrats will put recovery first”…..

    However that will NEVER ever happen via Willie Rennie and the Lib Dems , as the Lib Dems, will NEVER have the opportunity to implement the fairy tales written on their election leaflets so their fake pre election promises amount to Jack Sh*t …as Lib Dems will never ever win enough seats to become the next Scottish government at Holyrood….also Willie forgets that his party at one time helped bring about CHAOS themselves while in UKnotOK Government…. together with the Tories…… CHAOS for those people most in need….. via implementing the infamous austerity policy in their coalition with the Tory party via a WM UKnotOK government.

    And talking of Lib Dem lack of self awareness Alex Cole Hamilton tweeted the following re news on Alex Salmond’s launch of Alba party :

    “Thinking tonight of the women, who through my work on the committee and in the constituency, I’ve had cause to speak to, who have to add this latest development in the Salmond vs Sturgeon psychodrama to the load they already carry”

    Funny enough Alex forgets his own psychodrama in a committee meeting when he mouthed “F**k You Maree” to Maree Todd SNP MSP…….unfortunately for Alex most of us do remember and will never forget plus we also remember the rage on his face when he said it…..personally I am still wondering who leaked the inquiry’s report final decision to the press………I have my suspicions based on some individual’s past behaviour both in the Scottish parliament and via their Twitter account………

    Yet with the above as but one example of how one Unionist party are economical with the truth and also one particular individual from that Unionist party is clearly duplicitous … still the media laughingly promote the myth that independence parties are the bad yins……the evidence we have shows the opposite….obvs could include Keir’s NEW NEW Labour party…… and DRoss’s Tory party a failing branch office of Boris’s HQ Tory party……HQ themselves as guilty as branch office…obvs.

    So really why does Scottish politics have to be so complicated……. when facts speak for themselves as to who has our best interests at heart for those of us who live in and those others who choose to live in Scotland ?……..but the complication seems to be the best formula to apply for both votes to get an Indy majority as in the Constituency and list vote choices…..apparently.

    I mean if us on here and others elsewhere are arguing the t*ss about this …imagine how confusing it will be for those voters who are NOT…… shall we say…..politically engaged…..

    Oh what a(nother) tangled web we weave……minus the end of this quotation….just us tangling another web to create another self generated conundrum a La Scottish politics…….

    Incoming…… 😉

  117. MP Kenny MacAskill quits SNP to join Alex Salmond’s Alba party

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Sillars next hopefully! Both of them pretending to be SNP while out with the back-stabbing knives.

    • jfngw says:

      Is he going to resign his seat and become a candidate at Holyrood, become a D.Ross two job clone. or is he just going to sit in WM claiming to be the first elected Alba MP but elected on a SNP ticket. His choices define his integrity.

    • Not-My-Real-Name says:

      Yes and he, Kenny McAskill, I believe need not give up his seat either (if same rules applied to him as applied to Unionist ones and existing ones)….

      Remember the Tories like Anna Soubry and other Tories , plus Chuka Umunna from labour party , defecting to both Lib Dems and yon other new party who all lost their seats ( as did Chuka)…I cannae remember that new party’s name as they changed it so many times……and they all did not force a by election in their constituencies when they all deflected to their new political party……..but memories via history , when at WM, are not relied upon as evidence……and not applied when involves independence parties…new or existing ones.

    • Capella says:

      Predictable. I wondered why he had stood for Westminster anyway. His articles on WoS have put him and Chris McEleny in the anti-SNP party for the past year.

      • Alex Clark says:

        That would explain why this article was in the Scotsman on Thursday.

        Scottish election 2021: SNP-Green coalition might not be fully focused on independence – Kenny MacAskill MP

    • Hamish100 says:

      It is Alex Salmond’s party right enough. Very cultist.
      No election to senior positions just appointees.

  118. Dr Jim says:

    All the National Socialists coming together, they’re trouble and they’ve already begun their campaign of divisive hatred by trolling Nicola Sturgeon, this is what Salmond will cause he knows it and planned it, and he’ll use that other clown Campbell to generate the bile, the ex Labour National Socialists invading every space they can on social media to create spoiling tactics and bring disgrace to Holyrood and Scotland but the particular aim is to bring down Nicola Sturgeon

    You’d think the BBC would assist Salmond in this but even they can’t bear to put that taste in their mouths
    This website is not Wings over somebody’s ego so I hope Paul will rid us of the deliberate trolling by the obvious suspects so real Independence supporters can talk about the news and views of real politics

    • Rob Grant says:

      what is promoting a new indy list party to do with the national socialists jim? Seriously if this is the level and limit of your debating skills im relieved to have left entitled dinosaurs like you behind in my rearview mirror.
      paul i thought you were planning to block divisive dinosaurs like dr jim for not sticking to a positive indy message?

      • weegingerdug says:

        Unlike certain places I don’t block people for holding contrary views. I block them for insulting me and abusing me personally or for willfully starting fights.

  119. jfngw says:

    Is this the first PPB of the campaign?

    • Dr Jim says:

      Try that on a Glasgow wummin and you’d be walking with your knees bent for half an hour, in fact most women anywhere

  120. Hamish100 says:

    At least salmond had resigned before he was undermining the snp.

    McEleny and MacCaskill appeared to be doing it while still members.

    McEleny is pally with Angus MacNeil although he has kept quiet the past few weeks. We shall see if he is next.

    Maybe they will release all the text messages and emails to demonstrate no cover up!

    Will the alternate parties merge without a vote from their members? Democratically this has been less than open.

  121. Dr Jim says:

    MacCaskill and McEleny were predictable so they’ll be out PDQ, Angus Brendan would be mad to do it because his constituency would likely throw him out physically so he’ll bide his time then when it all goes in the crapper he’ll be OK, Sillars is the joke candidate that would join anybody with a red flag and a wee book, watch for Alec Neil he might take a chance, but he’s close to his pension so hmm

  122. Gerry Clark says:

    Why “Both Votes SNP” might not be such a good idea. An explanation of the voting system for the Scottish parliament.

    Scotland has 8 Regions.
    Each region has 8 to 10 Constituencies, a total of 73 Constituencies which each has 1 MSP.
    Scottish Parliament is elected using the Additional Membership System with voters having 2 voting sheets.
    VOTE 1. Constituency MSPs are elected by First Past The Post (FPTP) for the CANDIDATE you want to win.
    Whoever gets most Constituency Votes (CV) (Vote 1) wins the Constituency Seat (CS).
    VOTE 2. Regional Seats (RS) are allocated according to the d’Hondt method,
    which is designed to approximate proportional representation. Vote for the PARTY you want to win.
    D’Hondt works by dividing a party’s Regional Vote (RV) (Vote 2),
    by the number of Constituency Seats (CS) the party has won in the Region plus 1.
    There are 7 Regional Seats (RS) (a.k.a. List Seats) to be allocated per Region,
    So the calculation is repeated until all 7 Regional Seats are allocated.
    7 seats in each of the 8 regions = 56 Regional MSPs + 73 Constituency MSPs = a total of 129 MSPs in Holyrood.
    That’s how voting in Scotland works.

    Now, let’s take an example you can identify with.
    In 2016 SNP won every single constituency in the Glasgow region.
    They also got more than 3 TIMES the amount of regional votes than the Tories and almost twice as many as Labour. You can’t get any better than that, eh?

    But when it comes to allocating the regional seats, the SNP votes are divided by the 9 constituency seats they won plus 1. Every time their vote gets counted it’s DIVIDED BY 10.
    The Tory regional vote is divided by the zero seats they won plus 1. Their vote is NOT DIVIDED AT ALL.
    This process is repeated until all 7 regional seats are allocated.
    The result? SNP get ZERO regional seats.
    The Green party pick up 1 seat but the remaining 6 seats go to the unionists.

    Even if every single SNP voter had cast their regional vote for SNP that number would still have been divided by 10 and EVERY SINGLE VOTE would have been wasted.
    However, if only a quarter of the Glasgow SNP regional votes had gone to another indy party then Glasgow would have gained another indy list seat.
    In almost every region, the more people you can persuade to NOT give their second vote to SNP, the better for the indy movement as a whole.

    However, success in the constituencies is crucial for the SNP. If SNP support goes down significantly then failure to secure a convincing majority in the constituencies would mean that their regional vote would become more important. In the South Scotland region there is strong support for unionist parties and SNP do not do as well in the constituencies, which means that the regional vote there could well gain them list seats, as happened in 2016. In this region “Both Votes SNP” may be a better strategy. Similarly, Highlands & Islands region can be slightly more closely run, although BVSNP is still unlikely to be a good strategy.
    In all regions it’s advisable to pay close attention to voter intention in the days running up to the election so that you can make an informed decision on how to cast your votes.

    If you want to dive deeper into D’Hondt and even experiment with the numbers to test different scenarios then I’ve built this spreadsheet/calculator to do just that. It has been independently verified as being built with sound methodology.

    • yesindyref2 says:

      Why not give us your breakdown for 2011 – “Why “Both Votes SNP” was why we actually got an Independence Referendum. An explanation of the voting system for the Scottish parliament.”

  123. Hamish100 says:

    So are you suggesting vote snp 1 and then greens 2: No? Ok 1 & 2 snp

    • Hamish100 thats a silly remark but it is also a remark that shows that
      You either did not fully read what Gerry Clark said
      Or do not understand what Gerry Clark said

      Gerry proves that SNP 1&2 across the whole of Scotland is riskier than
      SNP 1 and ALBA 2

      • yesindyref2 says:

        He proves nothing of the sort. It’s IF IF IF IF IF IF IF

        IF 100% of the voters in Scotland vote SNP for the regional vote, the SNP will get all 56 regional seats. IF nobody votes Alba at all, they get absolutely no regional seats.

        There’s another two IFs – call them IF1 and IF2.

  124. Rob Grant says:

    Sorry Paul but i think your analysis of this development is wrong and based more on your emotional dissapointment at mistakes made during the 14 indyref. I share as does alex, with hindsight your point about a remark taken out of context. As far as currency was concerned the currency union was a then novel idea designed more to out the sterling fetishists within the britnat ranks and put them on display to the scottish public.
    I like youself was a long time member activist and Snp supporter so i think that your notion that i want to do harm intentional or otherwise to the Snp by supporting Alba on the list as nonsensical. Its just my opinion and i now realise also the opinion of most alba supporters that our aim is to help the newly elected SNP Scottish Govt deliver Independence by democratic means.
    By all means vote snp1/2 but realise that your only beneficiaries of your vote will be the election/re election of britnat parties. To say otherwise is to basically lie to the electorate and admit defeat on the constituency vote in opposition to recent polling evidence.
    your for Scotland.

    • Rob Grant , well said you speak the truth although i think many of those saying vote SNP 1&2 are doing so because they think the Scottish voters dont know how the voting system works

      I have more faith in the Scottish voters i think they understand a lot more than these people give credit

      • yesindyref2 says:

        They certainly do. They know IF they want as many SNP MSPs as possible, they vote SNP for the constituency, and SNP for the regional vote.

        SNP 1 & 2 🙂

  125. yesindyref2 says:

    Apparently, they begged Nora Batty to join but she turned them down.

  126. Alec Lomax says:

    Wheesht for Alba !

  127. Donna says:

    Well said. 👏👏👏👏

  128. Clydebuilt says:

    The unionist parties are going to work together to maximise their chance of beating the SNP in the Constituency vote.
    This is a real danger to SNP winning big in the Constituency.
    Therefore must vote SNP 1 & 2

Comments are closed.