Yesterday’s man with yesterday’s answer

The Gordosaur has been at the interventions again. That’s two in the space of a week, so he’s obviously getting as rattled as a pair of Maracas on ¡Mira Quien baila! which is the Spanish version of Strictly Come Dancing. It’s getting to the point where his friends and family will need to mount an intervention to help wean him off his intervening.

Things are definitely changing. Even the right wing Brexity Spectator magazine has published its first pro-Scottish independence article in its 190 year history meaning it has only taken it 190 years to write about an idea that has been around since about the year 840, when according to legend the king of Dalriada, Kenneth Mc Alpine, invited The Pictish nobility to dinner and served them a stabbing and not the tiramisu they’d been expecting for dessert, thus creating the independent Kingdom of Scotland. so it’s only taken the Tory current affairs magazine 1200 years to catch up. There’s that cutting edge Conservative thought for you.

Anyway,in his latest Broontervention Gordie warned that unless something drastic happened, the UK would be consigned to the history books within ten years, and he said that like it was a bad thing. Comments which were received by supporters of independence like what he said was a bad thing because we are all hoping that it will all be over in considerably fewer than ten years.

The drastic action that Gordie was referring to is the dead horse he keeps flogging about federalism and radical change to what passes for a British constitution. That would be the radical reform that he himself vowed to the people of Scotland would be introduced and implemented within two years of a no vote in the 2014 referendum.That was when Gordie swore that he personally was going to hold the feet of the leaders of Labour the Conservatives and the LibDems to the fire in order to ensure that the promise of federalism was kept.But the second that the no vote was delivered Gordie buggered off and couldn’t even be bothered to ensure that his own party honoured his promises, he sat back and said nothing while Labour and the Tories played devolution jenga in the Smith Commission, trying to remove as many of the promised powers as possible without bringing the entire process crashing to the ground.

Gordie now insists that the UK Government should hold citizens’ assemblies, and appoint a Constitutional Convention. Such a convention, Gordie says, should “examine what are not abstract questions of interest mainly to lawyers, but – as we can see from recent events – but also life and death matters that directly affect our daily lives.” So in other words he wants to kick the issue into the long grass, and after a few years a report can be published which will have heavily diluted all of Gordie’s promises of federalism, then a bill will be published, which the Tories and Labour will eviscerate as it passes through the various stages and committees in Parliament. And then finally after a process lasting years Scotland will end up with control over road signs on unlisted roads and a promise of future powers that will have a get out clause the size of a Brexit lorry park in Kent. And all that is assuming that Boris “devolution is a disaster” is prepared to countenance starting the process in the first place. Unfortunately for Gordie there is as much chance of that happening as there is of Gordie admitting that he bears some of the responsibility for the bad faith of the better together parties following the 2014 referendum.
he’s at it again in the Guardian today. Still touting the promises that he broke in 2014 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/20/boris-johnson-blames-devolution-but-in-truth-hes-long-been-hostile-to-scotland#comments
It’s too late, The time for the delivery of Gordie’s UK constitutional convention was in the months after September 2014, but Gordie’s abject failure then means that no one is interested now. We’ve heard all this before and they didn’t follow through. Now there is no chance as the UK has a Prime minister who openly espouses right wing populist English nationalism and who has as much interest in deepening and extending devolution as he does in working for an entire month without skiving off. Worse than that he has a deep antipathy to the existing devolution settlement and presides over a government which has systematically cut the devolved governments out – not merely of decision making processes, but which has failed to ensure that Edinburgh and Cardiff are even kept informed about UK government policies which have a direct impact upon Scotland and Wales. The existing devolution settlement is under threat from this government and its devolution destroying internal markets bill. There is zero chance of federalism. There’s no chance of this scotophobic English nationalist Prime minister surrendering any of the power that he has coveted for so long just to placate Scotland. You’d be as well expecting Aberdeenshire Tory MP Andrew Bowie to stop being insufferably smug. It’s just not in his nature and it’s not in Johnson’s either. Johnson is going out of his way to make things worse . The Conservative Party’s insane, pathological inability to step back from Brexit is driving the breakup of the UK and there’s nothing in Gordie’s proposals that will tackle that issue. Johnson himself has no real interest in Brexit, for him it was only ever a cynical device to get him into power, but now he has got that power, like all autocrats he has no intention of diluting it. Gordon Brown is yesterday’s man peddling yesterday’s solution. Gordie has become a rather desperate old man as he sees the Union to which he has such an unfathomable loyalty unravel. – thanks in no small measure to his own bad faith and broken promises. The British media is equally desperate, so they will keep trotting him out although Scotland has long since ceased to listen. In truth Brown and Johnson share an important characteristic and are more alike than either would admit. Both expended all their energy getting into number10 then didn’t have much idea what to do once they got there. They are both products of a failed and broken political system which is incapable of reform. Scotland has moved on. Johnson Brexit and Covid are the triple toxins that have killed off the UK. The only question left is how long it will take. Certainly a lot less than ten years.

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228 comments on “Yesterday’s man with yesterday’s answer

  1. Movy says:

    His article in the Guardian today is incredible.
    He portrays himself as a proud and patriotic Scot while equating the nation, of which he is so proud, as the equivalent of Greater Manchester.
    His lack of self-awareness is extraordinary.
    Time for him to accept reality and either move to Greater Manchester or London or whatever BritNat region in which he feels at home, and leave the nation of which he clearly does not feel part.

  2. andyfromdunning says:

    In one simple word he is a baffoon. In another word an eejit.

  3. […] Wee Ginger Dug Yesterday’s man with yesterday’s answer The Gordosaur has been at the interventions again. That’s two in the space of a […]

  4. Jim says:

    Spot on Paul.

    I read that piece in the Gaurdian about Johnson’s anti-Scottish attitude and the only thing Broon mentioned was ” A Scot should never be Prime Minister of the UK”.
    It just shows the vanity of the man, we have all seen the many anti-scots pieces Johnson has both written and/or sanctioned to be published, and this was the only one he mentions because it affected him personally.
    You are absolutely correct in saying they are out of the same jelly mold.

    Once bitten twice shy. They can roll him out as much as they like but he’ll just be laughed at now.

  5. smac1314 says:

    I thought the broonasaurus would have some connection with Johnson. They’re both liars after all.

  6. Republicofscotland says:

    The unions messiah Brown, has no power over Scotland anymore, whatever this failed ex-PM says on Scotland and Scottish independence is nothing more than his own personal opinion. Like Blair I think most Scots are now well aware that these men are pushing a unionist agenda, and that their ideas, if they can be called that, are not the will of the majority Scottish people.

    The British nationalist media can roll Brown and Blair out like Hannibal on his wheel barra (The Movie) any time they feel like it, for we are now immune to their unionist nonsense.

    The best way to shut these people up for good is for Scotland to become independent.

  7. gavinochiltree says:

    The search for the Ermine Robe goes on and on and on and o………………….!
    But it’s not just the Great North Brit Huckster!
    I’m pretty sure Boris referenced Sir Keir as privately SHARING his opinions.
    The future is either independence or direct rule.
    Anyone who believes otherwise—I have a bridge you might think of buying!

  8. Ken2 says:

    Yesterday’s man. Troughing on the public purse. Wasted £Trns of public money. Millions died. Illegal wars, tax evasion, financial fraud.

    The Barnett Formula. Scottish monies going south to waste. Leaving Scotland Devastated. Lived in London. In an alternative universe. Too much power corrupts. McCrone Report kept secret for 30 years. Under the Official Secrets Act.

    The Scottish Parliament was set up with too few powers. Set up to stop sanctions from the EU. The EU/UN support self determination and self governance. When people vote for it. Outvoted 10 to 1 at Westminster. Not democratic. Scotland is not being treated equally. Against International Law.

    • Melvin penman says:

      I agree entirely,if you just look at Goves complaint that Scotland is interfering in Brexit, it just makes my blood boil, the British think they own Scotland and we are their lower class servants, here to do what we are told. FCUK the British state, liars and cheats. Scotland stop bowing down to these assholes.

  9. Welsh Siôn says:

    Off topic, apologies.

    With sadness, let us record the passing of a great Welsh patriot who was never afraid to let others know of her love for Cymru and her hope that the country would be independent. That vision never dimmed.

    RIP Jan Morris.

    https://nation.cymru/culture/tributes-paid-to-author-and-journalist-jan-morris-who-has-died-age-94/

    Tributes paid to author and journalist Jan Morris who has died age 94

    20th November 2020

    • diabloandco says:

      Acting in a Trumpian manner will win him crafty, anti democracy crown and no friends in Scotland – except in our hideous ,lying media.

  10. jfngw says:

    The only feet being warm by Brown was his own at the fire of British Nationalism.

    Remember when he introduced the pensioner winter fuel payment and tried to structure it so it was near impossible for Scottish pensioners to receive it, he is no Scottish patriot. If it was 1707 he would have taken the gold.

    • Pogmothon says:

      Lets face it £15 Million plus is not enough for an ex-pime number to live off he’s obviously angleing for some ermine and all the expences and trappings to go with it. It must really rancle that all the other rouges from the 2014 parcel. and even baroness Rape Case have state sponsered little dead animal coats. There’s a couple of lads who put it far better than me.

  11. Maggie Batrie says:

    You are completely back on the ball, Paul. Hitting the nail right on the head. You are amazing! Keep up the great work, but no overdoing it, right?

  12. andyfromdunning says:

    Another off topic.

    Paul has kindly given me permission to put this link to a YouTube video on this blog.

    It lasts 30 minutes and explains GERS, the Scottish economy in the U.K., our Trade and resources. If you find it useful please pass it on. Thanks.

    • Capella says:

      Thx andyfrodunning – good summary of the facts and figures although I would have to go back to get the full picture as it s a lot of info to take in at once. The graphics could also be improved as it’s hard to read white ink on a pale blue background! Nevertheless – worth a view

  13. grizebard says:

    Och, don’t get me started again on Federal Broon. Of all the contemptible consequences of IR1, he is the undoubted nadir. He continues to shrug-off personal responsibility and shamelessly punt his shattered fantasies like a used-car salesman trying to shift a piece of scrap without even an engine. It’s positively Trumpian in its reality-denial.

    Tragically for him personally in the true Shakespearean sense, he apparently fails utterly to notice that his continuing promotion of a political mirage, in the face of outright Tory contempt and hostility for anything like it, is making him appear more and more, not as a person of substance as he undoubtedly imagines, but as a hopeless and pathetic dupe, a figure of derision.

  14. Bob Lamont says:

    Indeed a good summary, “They are both products of a failed and broken political system which is incapable of reform”.

    It is the “Scotland has moved on” both are desperate to ignore, made all the more prickly by recent moves to return to a more formal colonial footing.
    Broon is London’s emissary only because none are left who speak the native lingo and would not be run out of town, but with the 2014 wound still tender, Broon really is pushing his luck.
    It’s not 2014, the once trusted media platform on which he relied has lost all credibility, he’ll be talking to the void where Scotland used to be.
    London had it’s chance and blew it.

  15. Hamish100 says:

    Graham Stewart on bbc Rdio scotchland allows Peter Duncan Tory to say without the need to provide any evidence that Scotland covid measures have been as bad or worse than England.

    New look bbc? No just more of the same.

  16. Republicofscotland says:

    So Johnson will give a speech today to the branch office faithful during the Tory conference, he’s expected to give his commitment to devolution North of the border, though we all know that he loathes devolution and is desperate to roll it back.

    I fully expect the the Tory branch office faithful in Scotland to get behind their beloved leader, on outwardly supporting devolution but inwardly loathing it.

  17. Republicofscotland says:

    Douglas Ross, branch manager of the Tory office in Scotland has made a clarion call to the branch office of Labour in Scotland to help defeat the SNP at next years elections and stop Scottish independence for good.

    However if a recent Labour by-election where their vote share dropped by around twelve percentage points is anything to go by then, Richard whatshisname would do well to heed the writing on the wall, and back the Scottish peoples right to a independence referendum before he finds his party and indeed himself no longer required by the people of Scotland.

    • JMTaurus says:

      @ RepublicofScotland @ 10.41am

      A clarion call for tactical voting.

      It’s Dross conceding that he, as leader of his party in Scotland, cannot win against the SNP .

      He is not reaching out to Richard Leonard but to Labour voters in a ‘lend me your vote to oust the SNP’ plea.

      Why would he want to reach out to a party who are diminishing in the polls other than to take advantage for himself.

      Or perhaps this ‘news’ is just another branch office mission to deflect from the ongoing catastrophe that is being played out daily at Tory HQ .

      As it is quite funny how pre 2019 GE the Tories were dismissive of political alliances to oust them yet now, via DRoss, they see alliances as a political lifeline and tactical strategy to game the system to their advantage. Actually they always play the tactical card in Scotland it’s the only way they can try to get voters to switch their preferred party allegiance to another party, as in the Tories, to prevent an SNP candidate from gaining a seat. Running solely on the Unionist ticket as opposed to actual policies.

      I wish the media and DRoss would desist from treating Scots as idiots. Die hard Unionists votes are in the bag for the Tories but for us other Scots the manipulation and lies are becoming tiresome and unbearable.

      The DRoss over exposure on MSM is also becoming tiresome and unbearable and a tad too obvious. Every time he appears on yet another TV programme I hear Brenda from Bristol saying “Not another one”.

      Operation a*se , the sequel , needs to be deployed for the branch office leader and I am sure the Scottish public will succeed in implementing this unlike the Scottish Tories original doomed plot against their current HQ leader.

    • grizebard says:

      You would think that having been cynically used as Tory shills back in 2014 and paid the political price ever since, and even had their Orangist tendency poached from them by the “Queen’s Eleven” Tories on the principle “why pay for the monkey when you can pay for the organ-grinder?”, that Labour in Scotland would be extremely wary of any tender talk of partnership from the likes of DRoss.

      You would think, wouldn’t you…?

      • Republicofscotland says:

        I think there’s quite a few politicians in the Labour party who are all for a second indyref or at least the right to hold one, Richard Whatshisname however isn’t one of them sadly.

        • grizebard says:

          You surprise me there. Maybe you have connections that I don’t have, but I can’t think of more than one. The best you could say is that there are people like old Henry McLeish who are still desperately clinging to a federal myth to try to save their rapidly-eroding position, and would even cynically propose a referendum with a “third option” poison pill inserted. (Y’know, the one they rejected point blank when Alex Salmond offered it the first time around.)

          Back in 1979, we were diddled by a Labour poison pill. We’re not going to be shafted like that again. If there really are Labour politicians honestly willing to have a straight “yes/no” indyref (even if they will campaign for “no” as they likely all will), they should be coming out and saying it in public right now. Then we might just about accept some benign intent. Otherwise it’s all too-little-too-late, as per. Hiding in the shadow of Ricardo Limpheart just won’t hack it.

  18. Republicofscotland says:

    So how does Ross intend to dethrone the SNP at next years elections, well by campaigning to have the not proven verdict removed and the Community Investment Deals which could lead to business rates-free zones in town and city centres, an idea that the SNP put forward in 2019 but was rejected by yip, you guessed it the Tories.

  19. Dr Jim says:

    The media get themselves an argument going over Boris Johnson telling Scotland that basically we’re a big mistake and a disaster knowing perfectly well that most of Scotland will be annoyed about it while at the same time fully expecting that particular moron to say stuff like this so in yet another long line of insults to Scotland and it’s people they, the BBC, expect us to suck it up like we’ve done for the 300 years that these things have been happening then move on because well basically Scots are cowards and the Tories and Labour will in the long term get away with it as they’ve always done

    Gordon Brown however is a different matter when the BBC televise his *interventions* the attitude is always more reverential to this old faded burned out Labour rosette wearing Tory, and why? well he used to pretend to be Scottish so in the spirit of the great belief in Scots stupidity we’ll all pay more serious attention to this walking dead human being, problem is the BBC never report that Gordon Brown is as big a liar and nasty human being as Boris Johnson, in terms of their ideology you couldn’t wedge a keycard between the difference

    The BBC nor any of the media in Scotland ever report one of Gordon Brown’s biggest ever lies in history to Scotland when he insisted categorically informing his targeted audience of Scottish pensioners that there would be no more blood transfusions in an Independent Scotland, there would be no more organ transplants in an Independent Scotland when both of these things are rock solid international agreements not dependent on politicks, and that’s before we ever get into the lie about Scotland’s people’s pensions being denied to them

    Boris Johnson has only been personally lying and insulting to Scotland for a few years, Gordon Brown’s been doing it his entire life and likely will still be doing it after his death if he isn’t dead already, it’s hard to tell sometimes

    The Tories might have always owned the slaves but Labour have always been the ones wielding the Tories whips for them while sympathising with us over their impossible position of having to whip us poor souls, please vote for us and the whipping will stop said Labour, aye we did that and it didn’t

  20. Capella says:

    It baffles me that the media in London believe that Gordon Brown and Baroness Ruth Davidson have any political credibility north of the Border. Why did she get a gong BTW? Anyone know?
    Presumably Nicola was offered but turned it down. Only joking 🙂

    I’ve heard that Gordon can’t gt a gong till Tony Blair gets one and Tony Blair can’t get one because he’s a war criminal though, of course, Gordon Brown financed the war criminal.
    @ Pogmothon – I enjoyed that Proclaimers video with the rogues gallery of gong worthies. Sad to see Sean Connery there but, of course, he must have been.

    • grizebard says:

      For many of we older ones, the late Sean Connery included, our attitudes to BritDom have changed radically over the last several years. What was once widely perceived as perfectly normal – a Scot in an established British context – is now seen through very different eyes. That’s hardly surprising, though, when you actually think about it.

      What’s surely needed is to find ways of helping as many as possible of the remainder of older folks out of their grossly-outdated set of falsely-reassuring assumptions.

    • grizebard says:

      As for Baroness Boughtup, she was paid for her allegiance. Simple as that.

  21. Republicofscotland says:

    Well the usual Lillian Gish is now emanating from Downing street and conveyed to our eyes and ears North of the border by the British nationalist media, that Johnson’s devolution comments were reported on wrongly or it was taken out of context etc, etc, etc.

    However many times has a British PM, or Westminster politician said something very distasteful about Scots or Scotland and then at a later date claimed the above.

    • JMTaurus says:

      So where does Boris’s comment on devolution in Scotland being “Tony Blair’s biggest mistake’ fit into in this new Tory post interpretation i.e. supposedly but not defined at the time as “only being said in the context of SNP Government’s handling of devolution in Scotland” ?

      I think Michelle Ballantyne the Tory MSP got it right when she said on Debate night that Boris does not care about Scotland (and then she subsequently supported his Tory leadership bid). Most of us know that what she said is true irrespective of whether we are a devolved nation or not and most of us also know that the fact she said it and then supported him does make you wonder what it is that she cares about.

      • Dr Jim says:

        And there’s the language propaganda trap that is punted so often that everybody falls into it

        Scotland isn’t a devolved nation, only the governance of the nation is devolved to us but the people and the country of Scotland are not devolved, you can’t devolve a person but this language is designed to make us believe we’re less because of the use of the word

        • Republicofscotland says:

          Its typical Johnson propaganda, he loathes devolution, and the Good Friday Agreement.

          Here’s an eye opener for you.

          https://theorkneynews.scot/2020/11/19/unguarded-moments/

        • JMTaurus says:

          @ Dr Jim @ 2.40pm

          Thanks for the diplomatic way you responded to my ‘obvious’ use of language propaganda.

          As a new poster on here it’s very welcoming to get feedback in a civil and non abrupt way.

          But really that was me telt was it not.

          Apologies if I have misread the tone in your response to my comment .

          Please do not go down the snowflake route if you do decide to respond to this comment.

          • Bob Lamont says:

            Priceless, despite “Thanks for the diplomatic way you responded to my ‘obvious’ use of language propaganda” you sign off using the term “snowflake” 🤣

            • JMTaurus says:

              Hi Bob, I did not sign off using “term snowflake” as you state .

              I meant not be called a snowflake in any response from Dr. Jim.

              I also apologised to him if I had misread the tone in his feedback but then that obviously was not worth you mentioning .

              But you go ahead and laugh if it makes you feel a big man .

              Apologies to Dr Jim for thinking that he would resort to saying I was being a snowflake and I concede that was petty of me. I apologise to Dr Jim for the tone in my response to him as was made on impulse and badly judged.

              I thought as a new poster that this site was the best as seemed friendlier than some others .

              Anyway enough from me as I am sure that Paul does not want arguments on here so I will respect that and bow out gracefully.

              • Dr Jim says:

                This is a friendlier site JMTaurus you won’t find many here looking for rows

              • Bob Lamont says:

                Ooft, where did all that come from ?
                It was using the term “snowflake” in context of “use of language propaganda” which amused me, obviously not shared.

          • Dr Jim says:

            Not having a go at you and never would for what’s a common expression that folks don’t usually notice, merely pointing out how easily all of us through the repetitive style of mind acceptance training accept direction from the trainers

            *Snowflake*?

            • Golfnut says:

              Yep, I’m a bit lost with that one. I thought you were agreeing with him, emphasising how certain words are used repeatedly to undermine.
              Some have been in use for decades, eg, block grant and unfortunately many more.

              • Dr Jim says:

                I guess he/she just misread my intentions because of a past bad experience when posting elsewhere so might’ve been defensive, it’s a shame if he/she was someone new, and I’m sorry about that

  22. Dr Jim says:

    A BBC Sky or any other media question always posed to the SNP goes like this:

    “Will you work with the UK government” the answer always comes back from the SNP “Of course we will whenever we can”
    The follow up question from the media goes “Yes but Boris Johnson is doing *something* will you do the same and if not why not” the SNP answer again is co-operative by saying “wherever possible yes”
    Next follow up from the media is “But that’s not a four nations approach if you’re not doing the same thing” the implication being that Scotland is not co-operating if Scotland is not doing as it’s told, because preconditioning of the English mindset is that co-operation means taking instructions, obeying, being subservient, knowing your place

    Y’see in Scotland the word co-operation means something different when we say it, we tend to follow the dictionary interpretation of words whereas in England the meanings of words are what they say they are in whatever circumstances they say them to be, then later redefined to mean something else, as applicable

    Scotland and England separated by a commonly used language, how do you communicate with a country who refuses to speak or understand its own language

    • grizebard says:

      Unfortunately, for too many here it’s preconditioning instead of the Scottish mindset. Not least among those who feel their advantaged positions are dependent on English backing.

      I don’t think many ordinary people in England have a strong view on our situation either way. In fact, I think many there (and elsewhere too) would respect us far more if we grew a pair and (finally!) did our own thing.

  23. Hamish100 says:

    On bbc Shereen radio this morning all the participants said for covid we HAD to have a 1 nation approach. Of course ( that’s 4 into 1 for them) that is what suits London and the South east England. I’m happy of us being a nation dealing with covid is it affects Scotland. So if Shetland , Orkney and the Western Isles have a lower tier good for them.

    • Dr Jim says:

      We’re four great nations, then we’re the precious Union, then we’re one nation and very often we’re *the country* it’s no wonder folk get confused over where they live, I’m changing my name to Patrick McGoohan number 6, he didn’t know where he was either

  24. Golfnut says:

    Tory and labrat, 2 cheeks of the same bahookie.

    Remember this when they demand support for business.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/215556435841901/permalink/781215102609362/

  25. Ken2 says:

    Scotland only voted Labour to keep the Tories out. The worse of two evils. Now people can vote SNP to be protected from Westminster unionist appalling policies and mismanagement. The only reason for Westminster unionists lining their pockets. Brexit.

  26. Ken2 says:

    The Bain principle still in existent. Still operating. Tory and Labour united against any relevant, advantageous policy suggested by the SNP. Tory and Labour in cahoots to destroy the economy. Then try and blame the SNP.

  27. robert alexander harrison says:

    Everyone remember how labour to win elections always promises to tax the rich or abolish the house of lords never happened just like English nationalists south of the border always crying they want rid of us scots it never happens its why i will always say Englands word is basically dogshit they will talk the talk but never walk the walk and dont get me started on the conservatives oh how i hate them with a vengeance as they dont even hide they look down on others.

  28. Republicofscotland says:

    So Auld Queen Lizzie had a plan to thwart Scottish independence if we voted yes in 2014.

    “As the Scottish National Party, under the leadership of Alex Salmond at the time, prepared its bid to break away from the Union in a 2014 vote, the Queen is said to have prepared an intervention. Lionel Barber, a Financial Times’ former editor, claims the Queen’s son Prince Andrew told him of his mother’s plans during lunch – one week before the referendum.”

    https://archive.is/NgYIz

    • Welsh Siôn says:

      Just pinching your graphic, RoS:

    • Golfnut says:

      I hope you realise the Queens intervention story is total bollocks, the question is why they decided to put this out at this time.

      • Republicofscotland says:

        I suppose this was total bollocks as well.

        “Scotland should declare independence if Britain votes to leave the European Union on June 23, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

        The Scottish First Minister said that it would “be best for Scotland to be in the EU as an independent member state”.”

        https://web.archive.org/web/20160220183056/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12166597/Scotland-to-declare-independence-if-Britain-votes-to-European-Union-says-Nicola-Sturgeon.html

        • Golfnut says:

          Yep, you were hooked.

        • Alex Clark says:

          Eh? she never said that at all, the Torygraph said that but that suits your agenda I guess.

          Nicola Sturgeon actually said: “best for Scotland to be in the EU as an independent member state”.

          That is not the same thing as the Torygraph claimed, “Scotland should declare independence if Britain votes to leave the European Union” Nicola Sturgeon said.

          She actually didn’t say any such thing but that didn’t stop you from claiming such.

          I would have expected you to be a bit more discerning in your quoting of right wing rags such as the Torygraph in order to make such a poor effort to score an SNP/Sturgeon bad point.

          • Republicofscotland says:

            “Nicola Sturgeon actually said: “best for Scotland to be in the EU as an independent member state”.”

            Splitting hairs aren’t we.

            • grizebard says:

              Talking of splitting hairs, don’t you think that “Scotland” deserves an initial capital letter? Sufficient respect and all that. Even an English county deserves better. Could its absence possibly be a telling Freudian slip…?

              • Republicofscotland says:

                I first decided to use it as one word, and just kept it that way, there was no disrespect intended.

                • Republicofscotland says:

                  Oh I should’ve added that, that was over a decade ago, and I’ve had maybe two or three comments on the negative side about it in that decade.

        • Alex Clark says:

          The quote from Nicola Sturgeon in context.

          “It’s not a perfect institution – and while I believe it would be best for Scotland to be in the EU as an independent member state, I believe it is better for us in all circumstances to stay in. Of course, this referendum has, all along, been driven by the Tory Party’s longstanding internal divisions on Europe and the challenge to the Conservatives from Ukip, rather than by the specifics of David Cameron’s renegotiation.

          We made it clear to the Prime Minister that we were opposed to a June 23rd referendum, given the overlap with our own Scottish election – but now that that date has been named we will get on with the job of campaigning for an ‘in’ vote. It’s important that the campaign to remain in the EU learns the lessons of Scotland’s independence referendum, so that it does not lapse into scaremongering and fear – that is why the SNP will be a leading voice in the weeks and months ahead in making the positive case for Scotland and the rest of the UK remaining in Europe.”

          I couldn’t find anywhere there, the part where she says in her speech “Scotland should declare independence if Britain votes to leave the European Union on June 23″.

          Since it was the Torygraph and you claiming she said that I’m not that surprised to discover that she never said it at all. The media have form when it comes to lying about what SNP leaders say.

          • Republicofscotland says:

            Thank you for clearing the matter up.

            “and while I believe it would be best for Scotland to be in the EU as an independent member state, ”

            I agree wholeheartedly with that sentence, lets hope it happens.

  29. Republicofscotland says:

    Christ those clowns running Scottish rugby need a word in their ears as the Scotland v France rugby match is on Amazon Prime and not on any terrestrial channel.

    The same can be said of the Hampden mob running the footballing national team.

    We must be the only country in the world that doesn’t have access to its national sides fixtures on tv.

    • Indeed RoS… And I think we were lied to about it being free to watch Scotland v Slovakia online.. I spent half an hour trying get the mentioned channels / Sites up, before giving up… I don’t have a tv, and yet I’m informed yesterday that the bbc intend to visit on 3rd December. Let them Come.

  30. Dr Jim says:

    The 2014 referendum was designed organised and run by Westminster, every aspect of it was controlled by them, they were never concerned about losing it at any time except when a fluke poll suggested the Scottish people might vote for it, that’s why and when the problems for the SNP internally began when Nicola Sturgeon became FM and said pointedly “I don’t want to just hold a referendum I want to win one” certain figures within the party were very unhappy with that statement and still are, they saw it as disloyal, she saw it as telling the truth about a mishandled botched up referendum that lacked preparation and Scotland lost as a result of it

    Nicola Sturgeon’s determination to do the job right is what scares Westminster, they know she won’t compromise over who and how the next referendum will be run, they know the UN regulations on referendums will be adhered to, they know Westminster will not be allowed to use their control of the British media to control the agenda of timings of debates, so called experts media statements, and they know she fully intends to win

    They never worried about any of that in 2014 because they were in charge

    I know some folk find this sort of analysis disturbing it’s like saying William Wallace was a great guy but c’mon he made an Arse of it, nobody really wants to hear that, but he did

    2014 is history now and it shouldn’t be about preferences as to which FM people like more than the other, the overly nostalgic amongst us will rerun 2014 in their heads and keep trying to win it if only we had, if only they had, if only, it’s today now, history is gone and not returning nor are the people from that time so we learn from it and go again when we get the chance to not make the mistakes previously made, the only people who benefit from disagreement within ourselves in Scotland are Unionists and those they employ to foment that disagreement

    It makes little difference what leader is in charge of the SNP because whoever it happens to be is only in charge of style and policy direction not people’s opinions, the people of Scotland have decided they are quite sure they want Independence now so it’ll happen because of that, some argue that Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t press enough for Independence, I would argue that every day she demonstrates to Scotland why they should have it without bluster and grand statements and now Scotland feels confident about the way she’s going about her business so believes in her where they didn’t believe and weren’t confident in 2014

    • andyfromdunning says:

      Agreed

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Superb

    • Republicofscotland says:

      Nothing new in that comment that we don’t already know I’m afraid, what’s worrying though is that you like so many others feel that Sturgeon is taking it slow and steady on the indyfront because she wants to win the next one. Well it cannot be won if Johnson doesn’t agree to the S30, well not in that particular route anyway.

      So where does that leave us, with time running out due to to the likes of the Internal Market bill which will surely curtail the Scottish governments ability to govern. Do we put all our eggs in one basket and hope that Johnson, suddenly becomes a reasonable man and grants the S30, is that even likely, or do we pray that like Trump somehow Johnson is forced to stand down sometime in the near distant future, and replaced by a mild mannered Tory who’ll see reason on the indyfront and issue the S30.

      Or better still a non Tory PM in the future such as the millionaire Knight of the Realm, Sir Keir Starmer, who’s as socialist as J.D Rockefeller was, will grant us the S30. It would also appear that the possibility of a Plan B has been rejected by the SNP, in life and in business the need for a Plan B is seen as good planning so why not in politics as well.

      Sturgeon is playing a very dangerous game with all our hopes and dreams, and the dreams of our children and grandchildren for that matter.

      • Alex Clark says:

        “So where does that leave us, with time running out due to to the likes of the Internal Market bill which will surely curtail the Scottish governments ability to govern.”

        Hahaha that is so pathetic, pure amateur trolling.

        We can’t get a Section 30, we’re doomed, the Tories won’t allow it. They will close Holyrood, time is running out, where’s Plan B, we need a Plan B! Wah! Wah! Wah!

        You really are getting desperate, nobody here is falling for your bullshit. You’d be better off posting your pathetic drivel where it might have an audience, it’s not here.

      • grizebard says:

        You really don’t seem to get it. The SNP (not merely your very tell-tale “Sturgeon”) is clearly embarking on a strategy to have a referendum anyway, provided only – and crucially – that the SNP receives sufficient backing by the electorate this coming May. That demonstrated popular backing is the sine qua non. BritNats are against a referendum which they are now convinced they will lose and consequently are desperately trying to undermine this strategy by aiming to repeat what happened in 2017, but unlike Ruthie back then, who is a dead-ender now, they are forced to try it by the back door.

        Whether you are actively complicit in this counter-strategy – as we might suspect – or are merely another dupe of it is irrelevant, this is actually what you are assiduously striving to achieve in your efforts here and elsewhere.

        • Alex Clark says:

          It’s as plain as the nose on the end of your face that there is a concerted effort to attempt to discredit the leadership of the SNP for a “failure” to have a plan B. There is a plan and it’s working and that’s why the Unionists are frothing at the mouth.

          Then the pathetic attempt to create a deadline, “there’s no time Holyrood will be shutdown!” Let them try it and you will have 75% voting for Independence.

          We are knocking on the door and it’s this strategy that has worked to increase support since 2014, no point in trying to run before you can walk, first we needed to persuade No supporters to come over to Yes. We have made progress.

          Any vote prior to this year had more chance of losing than succeeding, that is not the case now and any vote in the near future, Covid permitting will surely see us Independent. If a prize is worth having then it’s worth waiting for and the more you will enjoy its delivery. Another defeat was always out of the question.

          • Republicofscotland says:

            “There is a plan and it’s working .”

            Could you be kind enough to expand on this, and explain what the plan is and how in your opinion its working.

            • Alex Clark says:

              See when you show me your plan I’ll show you mine LOL

            • Pogmothon says:

              Haw RoS

              Here’s yur intitlement to plan (what ever it is) access
              It’s now gone past just getting on my tits and I do not wish to hear any more whining about it. Initially it was of interest and seemed to be a ligitimate question to which I and many others would have loved to hear the answer. Supposing that it would place the cabal at westminster under more pressure.
              However it has now got to the stage where YOU ARE NOW DOING THE unionists JOB FOR THEM by causing disent and disruption in the ranks and disaffecting possible converts.
              All, ALL the people irrispective of their position. Espeshally the ones who are supposidly smarter than me. Need to consider very carfully how their actions and demands effect the prospect of Scotland reasserting its Nationhood.
              Not just that, but they need to accept that the answer to their constant demands for a plan “B” or more detailed Knowlege of plan “A” is reserved to the First Minister and her selected team.

              And whether they like it or not the answer is quite simple “IT’S ABOVE YOUR PAY GRADE”.

              So stop wi the terrier dug act, an leave it the fuck alone!!!!
              At the appropriate time and when it is neccessary for you to know in order to further Scottish Independance. I have no doubt you along with the rest of us will be made aware of the next stage of the plan.
              Or is it your desire to lend more of a hand to the unoinists and perhaps give succor to the enemy, and a stick to beat us with. or perhaps you’d like to start a new Independance Party. Have you even asked your self why none of the unionist are doing these things or asking these questions. IMO it’s because you are all doing such a good job of it.

              Why do you think these demands are only made of Hollyrood and the SNP.
              Where are the incessant demands for plan “B”, from LBJ on the Good Friday Agreement, Covid Approach, Any Trade Deal, NHS protection Etc…Etc.

              So jist gees a breck.
              All the energy you are expending on demands for plan “B” and or access to plan “A” would be better spent trying to futher the Independance Cause.
              Rather than quisling the elected leadership who are operating in the real world. Not the “what if”, “suppose” that you all seem to inhabit. Nor the “sunny uplands” of the union brigade.

              Get a grip, Hae a word wi yursel, keep yur mooth shut, an be thowt an edjit, rither than open it and confirm it.

        • Republicofscotland says:

          Pray tell when will this referendum be held, we have Ian Blackford saying that we’ll have one next year, but he’s not the party leader, infact he’s not even an MSP for that matter. i know its become a cliche to say that is their even enough time to hold an indyref next year, as Blackford has said, however I’m not convinced yet that there is.

          • grizebard says:

            Well, TBH, we don’t really care whether you’re convinced or not.

            That’s the inevitable fate of persistent nay-sayers.

            • Republicofscotland says:

              That’s not very helpful now is it, its our duty to question is it not.

              • Alex Clark says:

                It’s not your duty to lie about what the First Minister says, or is it?

              • grizebard says:

                Backstabbing the SG, frantic doom-mongering, crocked crystal-ball gazing, and disrespectful naming may be a “duty”, but only for those working against independence.

                If you have any concern about how the SNP/SG is taking us towards independence, it might be thought your prime duty to first ensure that they are in a position to take the crucial next step forward by winning (and the decisively the better) the actual upcoming election, and reserve your judgement for the subsequent actual performance.

                Please spare us your pomposity and disingenuousness. You’re no true friend of independence and the more you write, the more it shows.

          • Alex Clark says:

            Why do you spread lies about what the leader of the SNP has said 4 years ago, quoting the Torygraph too? Why do you undermine the SNP at every opportunity here and on other blogs?

            Which party do you see leading Scotland to her Independence, who do you support and should I be voting for them instead of the SNP? If so, then why?

            Should be easy enough questions for someone, seemingly with all the answers.

            • Republicofscotland says:

              “and while I believe it would be best for Scotland to be in the EU as an independent member state, ”

              Well Alex you yourself wrote the above which I assume is from four years ago, yet there’s been no movement on the indyfront since. If questioning the leadership is spreading lies about the SNP then I’m guilty as charged.

              I see the SNP as the driving vehicle to independence, but not necessarily with Sturgeon and Murrell at the helm.

              • Alex Clark says:

                Now you’re at it again. Why would you drag up an article from the Daily Telegraph that was over 4 years old for no reason at all and then imply that:

                “Scotland should declare independence if Britain votes to leave the European Union on June 23, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

                That was a lie, no denying it, yet you wanted to make a point. To me that stinks, a bit iffy, know what I mean. Any stick to beat the SNP with even an old Torygrapf article totally off topic from 4 years ago. Do you a have a wee book of such spin for use when needed?

                Now you claiming that “yet there’s been no movement on the indyfront since” which is more disingenuous bullshit that I’ve become accustomed to reading in your posts.

                Everything necessary to hold a referendum in 2021 is being put in place, the Referendums Scotland Act has already been passed and a draft referendum bill specific to a 2nd Independence referendum will be published setting out the timing and question for a new referendum before the end of this parliament. The electoral commission have already been tasked with testing the question for the referendum, that question will be the same as the first referendum.

                This is not “nothing” as you claim. Oh, and did I mention that support has been reported as being as high as 58% for Yes in a 2nd referendum?

                I’d call that something but I can clearly see why YOU would like to call it nothing being done. Purely in order to undermine support for the SNP, that’s your role.

                • Republicofscotland says:

                  oh I don’t know Alex maybe I’m a bit sceptical because of all prior mandates that the SNP government has let slip on independence. or the promise and it can only be described as a promise, that Scotland wouldn’t stand for being dragged out of the EU, but we did.

                  Or the lack of any movement on the currency front or the the setting up of a central bank, very important issues such as these have been replaced by the GRA bill and the Hate Crime bill, but I suppose me illustrating these policies, is in your eyes trolling, and lying and hating the SNP.

                  Alex we must question and question again, and hold them accountable.

                  • Alex Clark says:

                    Independence is not about the GRA bill and the Hate Crime bill, they are single issues that mean little in the grand scheme of things so why focus on them? To hold the SNP accountable?

                    For what, proposing law? Pull the other one.

                  • grizebard says:

                    Hold them accountable for their performance then after their win, not assiduously flit from one empty issue to another with the self-evident aim of finding something – anything – to frustrate it beforehand. You’re so obvious. Clearly looking for a way to thwart the anticipated win, hence the timing. Thankfully you’re as effective at your voter suppression as Trump is in overturning the US election.

  31. bringiton says:

    The Covid19 crisis has made it absolutely crystal clear to Scots that Westminster is England’s government and acts in the interest of England whereas Holyrood looks after our interests.
    All we have to do now is sort out who controls our finances.

  32. Dr Jim says:

    I’ve got my back up about this expression “The settled will of the people” that the enemies of the people trot out constantly, we voted in 2014 and that was the “settled will of the people”

    I’ve never in my life heard such absolute tosh and drivel spoken and held up as the banner of truth in my life as this pile of DRoss cowpat, or any other clown who repeats this projectile spew

    Scotland is the most emigrated part of the British isles, we leave Scotland and travel all over the damn world, we’re known for it, we founded and lived in countries and colonies on it in every corner of the globe, we move house how many times in our lives from town to town, we change jobs countless times depending on opportunity or expediency, we marry we get divorced we marry again, we are the perfect example of the human condition of *NOT* demonstrating the characteristic of *the settled will* of anything, we grow, we change our minds, we require freedom of choice, we do not settle our will on anything or we’d just never bother voting at all

    And that’s what our enemies pray for every night, that Scottish people have no will at all

    • grizebard says:

      For a “settled will”, it seems curiously fluid at the moment, changing more and more in favour of independence as these Tory blunderers blunder on and casually and deliberately break more and more of the promises they made back when the phrase made sense.

      In 2014, Scotland gave the BritNats a last chance to make good on their fancy promises. “Nearest thing to federalism”, “position anchored in law”, etc, etc. That was our true settled will. And now that its clear that the opportunity has been grossly and arrogantly squandered, our will is going to re-assert itself in the only possible way it can. To show these lying fakes the door and take permanent charge of our own affairs.

  33. jfngw says:

    I see reports that D.Ross will only be on the list in May, too scared to sit for a constituency seat?

    It seems just like his boss sneaking out the back door of Bute House he intends to sneak in the back door of Holyrood.

    I’ll wait with baited breath (I couldn’t give a toss about him in reality) if he is up front or a sneak thief.

    • Dr Jim says:

      It displays the lack of confidence the Tories have in themselves that their so called leader is too afraid to put his leadership to the test and present his case to the actual voters of a constituency in Scotland and so takes the sneaks route by inveigling himself into a seat using the guile and deception of the proportional representation system that the Tories actually oppose in their own parliament of Westminster where they can control their one party state system

      There are those who would argue England is not a one party state I would ask them to prove that Labour Lib Dem and Tories do not have one and the same motive, total dominance and ownership of the three other countries under their control, for if they were not a one party state the House Of Lords would not exist as each party for all of our lifetime has promised to reform or abolish that place yet never do they in fact increase the numbers of that rewards for services chamber of unelected holders of power

    • grizebard says:

      “bated breath”. {sigh}

      Or are you just trying to bait me…? {grin}

      • Welsh Siôn says:

        Do we have to repeat the joke?

        cat – cheese – eating – mousehole – waiting outside

        😛

        • Welsh Siôn says:

          grizebard and myself – the grammar police.

          No one escapes grizebard and myself … things like this are clickbate [sic.] to us … 🙂

            • Dr Jim says:

              The headline should maybe read something like

              *BBC demand no staff in their employ have an opinion, even secretly*

              Job requirements include stupidity lack of awareness and faithful servitude to the decisions and aims of the Reich, Oops! correction BBC, people with minds of their own need not apply

              We should go into the programmable robot building business Bob there’s definitely a future in it

              • grizebard says:

                This is how they do it. There’s no need to send (ultimately discoverable) partisan directives to staff, it’s enough to exclusively employ those who are “one of us”, and the communal groupthink sweetly does the rest. Each of them probably believes that they are being honest and fair, despite the fact that these days their output manifestly (to anyone else) only represents under half of the population.

                • Dr Jim says:

                  Can you imagine any other job where the employer demands that employees have no political interests, I’m thinking that might be something any employee or prospective job applicant might want to seek advice on whether that’s even legal or not on human rights grounds

                  I’ll bet the police fire service or medical staff aren’t subjected to that sort of question or condition of employment, perhaps there’ll be BBC staff right at this moment asking questions of their union reps on this one, and how could the BBC even find out if they did have political affiliations or views and would they dare sack them for it if they did find out, sounds like tribunal territory to me, but then again Hitler did it this way didn’t he, they took over the public services then invaded their own country

                  I thought for a second I’d gone too far there I’ll delete that, then thought, well maybe not

              • Bob Lamont says:

                Programming a machine even to self-harm is easy, programming a sentient human to do so is a considerably more difficult but not impossible as Brexit amply demonstrated.

                The *BBC demand no staff in their employ have an opinion, even secretly* is probably true,but less a point that staff hold no opinion than they suppress expression of it even privately on penalty of losing their job, in short a culture of professional fear, doubtless reinforced by NDAs.

                Yet it is the particular arrogance of BBC Scotland John highlights in his contrasts, in this particular case with BBC Wales, Pacific Quay’s output is uniquely anti-indy thereby anti-SG/SNP, and always highlighting the individual as the target for distrust.
                eg – Their recent contrived scandals over nosocomial infections and care-home admissions serve no useful public purpose, indeed they are gauged to agitate. In platforming opposition politicians as a bulwark against these contrived “disasters”, the objective is obviously political.
                That’s no more journalism than perma-angry Chris Musson posturing as “holding government to account” while demanding the FM admit “you’ve failed”, it’s blatant propaganda.

          • Drew Anderson says:

            Your comment is pedant bait I’m afraid. Using the wrong homophone isn’t a grammatical error. “Baited” rather than “bated” may have offended the eye, but it was used in a grammatically correct sentence.

        • grizebard says:

          No, we have de-bated this too much already! {grin}

      • jfngw says:

        No, my spelling seems to be deteriorating with my age, so if the spell checker doesn’t flag it up as I type the likelihood is I’ll not spot it (sometimes I do but after it is posted). I also have a tendency to modify something I’ve written and forget to remove all the parts I want replaced, ends up gibberish, or a cryptic post requiring decoding.

  34. Ken2 says:

    The unionist (Leslie Evans) mucked up the electoral system in Scotland. So they would always get it. First preference votes go in the bin. To let third rate losers in. Voters cannot get rid of them. Then they go into the HoL. Unelected.

    • grizebard says:

      Oh, don’t be silly. The decision in any event was not taken by Leslie Evans, or any other individual. Wales is soon to adopt the same system as us for its local elections, and Ireland (both sides) has been using it for years.

      Try visiting the website of the Electoral Reform Society for enlightenment. (A forlorn hope in your case, maybe, but you never know…)

  35. Pogmothon says:

    I’ll give it another go the last attempt went to moderation. I would suppose because of the earthier language, so attempt to self moderate whitout removing the creative spelling.

    It’s now gone past just getting on my t*!s and I do not wish to hear any more whining about it.
    Initially it was of interest and seemed to be a ligitimate question to which I and many others would have loved to hear the answer. Supposing that it would place the cabal at westminster under more pressure.
    However it has now got to the stage where YOU ARE NOW DOING THE unionists JOB FOR THEM by causing disent and disruption in the ranks and disaffecting possible converts.

    ALL, All the people irrispective of their position. Espeshally the ones who are supposidly smarter than me. Need to consider very carfully how their actions and demands effect the prospect of Scotland reasserting its Nationhood.
    Not just that, but they need to accept that the answer to their constant demands for a plan “B” or more detailed Knowlege of plan “A” is reserved to the First Minister and her selected team.

    And whether they like it or not the answer is quite simple “IT’S ABOVE YOUR PAY GRADE”.

    So stop wi the terrier dug act, an leave it the F alone!!!!
    At the appropriate time and when it is neccessary for you to know in order to further Scottish Independance. I have no doubt you along with the rest of us will be made aware of the next stage of the plan. (If indeed there is one?)
    Or is it your desire to lend more of a hand to the unoinists and perhaps give succor to the enemy, and a stick to beat us with. or perhaps you’d like to start a new Independance Party. Have you even asked your self why none of the unionist are doing these things or asking these questions.
    IMO it’s because you are all doing such a good job of it.
    Why do you think these demands are only made of Hollyrood and the SNP.
    Where are the incessant demands for plan “B”, from LBJ on the Good Friday Agreement, Covid Approach, Any Trade Deal, NHS protection Etc…Etc.
    So jist gees a breck.
    All the energy you are expending on demands for plan “B” and or access to plan “A” would be better spent trying to futher the Independance Cause.
    Rather than quisling the elected leadership who are operating in the real world. Not the “what if”, “suppose” that you all seem to inhabit. Nor the “sunny uplands” of the union brigade.
    Get a grip, Hae a word wi yursel, keep yur mooth shut, an be thowt an edjit, rither than open it and confirm it.

  36. Petra says:

    How did that happen?

    ‘Tories increase vote share in by-election win in Scotland.’

    http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/clackmannanshire-east-byelection-6355820

    ………………………………………….

    ‘Pro-indy parties make progress in Clackmannanshire East by-election.’

    https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/11/pro-indy-parties-make-progress-in.html

  37. Petra says:

    ‘Understanding The D’Hondt Voting System. A very simple and real example of the Holyrood D’Hondt voting system using Glasgow Region as a live example.’ https://mobile.twitter.com/Scotpol1314/status/1330046820513443842

    ………………………………..

    Flyman.

    Philip Sim:- ”Boris Johnson’s speech to the Scottish Tory conference this morning – seeks to clarify that he was attacking the SNP, not devolution itself, then pivots to thanking ScotGov for cooperation during pandemic and says this should continue. Getting to that softer approach, eventually?”

  38. Petra says:

    ‘Douglas Ross is the subject of a SECOND FIFA investigation. He has been accused of using his football connections” to win votes.The Tories shared an interview with FourFourTwo magazine on their social media. It featured a photo of him in his with SFA logo. Which breaks FIFA rules.” https://mobile.twitter.com/80_mcswan/status/1330478076346720256

    ……………………………………..

    ‘Scotland’s Dirty Secret.’

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2020/11/21/scotlands-dirty-secret/

  39. Petra says:

    By-passing Holyrood.

    ”Scottish Conservatives. It’s about time Scottish councils got the resources they need. Fair funding for local authorities will strengthen local government and deliver for residents.” https://mobile.twitter.com/MBallantyneMSP/status/1330476928541679617

    …………………………………

    Helping the Scottish councils as the English councils go down the stank? Strange 😀.

    ”English Conservatives. Eight out of 10 English councils at risk of bankruptcy (June 2020).”

    https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/23/at-least-8-in-10-english-councils-need-help-to-avoid-going-bankrupt

  40. Petra says:

    ”EXPERTS DISCOUNTED BECAUSE NEIL FINDLAY KNOWS BETTER?”

    https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/11/22/experts-discounted-because-neil-findlay-knows-better/

    ………………………………..

    Check out Ann’s latest links on the Indyref2 site.

    https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/links-monday-23-november-2020/

  41. Petra says:

    Rifkind joining the Panic Club 😀.

    ‘Union: Tories in ‘deep panic mode’ with federalism calls.’

    ..”Sir Malcolm Rifkind spent three years as Margaret Thatcher’s man in Scotland and once made a bid for leadership of the party. Now the former Edinburgh Pentlands MP, who also served under John Major, has called for a new federal UK to save the Union.”..

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/18890308.tories-deep-panic-mode-future-union/

  42. jfngw says:

    I see the National are reporting the Welsh and Scottish governments are not signed up, as the BBC have been widely reporting, to the Boris Johnson panto season easing of restrictions. Is this more propaganda being put in place to undermine the SG when they reveal they are not going to follow Santa Johnson and his death wish rules. I can see the MSM getting the headlines ready now ‘ Nicola Cancels Xmas’.

  43. Ken2 says:

    The illegal Barnett Formula. Rifkind was part of the cover up. Kept it secret. Thatcher’s henchman. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion.

    These people are coming out of the woodwork to try and save themselves. To keep troughing on public monies. They do not care about anyone else and never will. They are a complete and utter disgrace. Their time is over. Vote them out for a better world and prosperity.

    ‘Save the world’. All they care about is saving themselves. Their day is over. The deceit and lies. It is a disgusting disgrace The way they have treated people.

  44. Ken2 says:

    The Tories cut all council funding. Cut £Billion from NHS, Education, Welfare. £13Billion+ a year. From 2015 to 2020. On average UK tax revenues £666Billion+.

    Cut the Scottish block grant (illegally) 10% a year. When Scottish tax revenues had increased. From £63Billion+to £66Billion+ last year, Scottish tax revenues pays for all (UK) Gov pensions/benefits, £15Billion+ a year.

    The SNP Scottish Gov have to mitigate the cuts. Austerity. Causing hardship and misery.

  45. Ken2 says:

    What on Earth. Matt Hancock’s dept billed the taxpayers £50K on takeaway’s.

    It is disgraceful the corruption in Westminster accounts. Non accountable, unscrutinised illegal contracts. For the Tories and their associates.

  46. Old Pete says:

    Notice Shite over Scotland still attacking the SNP from distant Bath. Since the Kezia Dugdale incident he has never forgiven Nicola and the SNP for criticising his remarks on Oliver Mundell.
    Infiltrate then disrupt, divide and defeat has always been the English way of controlling its colonies. You have to wonder ?

    • Hamish100 says:

      Yeh I have also noticed the tendency as in many right wing or even very left wing sites to “out” individuals on site. A disturbing tendency that many of us should rethink. Look at the USA as an example.
      It’s well over a year since the site concerned has turned to work with the unionists.
      We are well on the path to our dream. Hold fast with pro independence sites.

    • Dr Jim says:

      The Scottish Taliban leader and author of the Bathistan Chronicle with every sense of irony coupled with the total belief that enough Scottish people are stupid enough not to notice that he uses factionalism to boldly fight what he calls factionalism in attempts to fulfill his destiny which is the subversion of democracy the way normal people see it to be replaced by his correct definition of democracy

      This is a person who refers to himself as *we* Nuff said?

    • Petra says:

      Westminster’s right hand man for quite some time now which explains why he didn’t like anyone mentioning ”a parcel of rogues” on his site. Blocked people from mentioning it in fact. Too close to home for his liking, eh?

  47. The Linesman’s Tale :- Part One

    This may take some time so I’ll break it down in to sizable attention spanning chunks.

    I’ve just caught up with Sunday through the wonders of I Player Youtube and Irish French German and Italian newspapers.

    It looks like Wee Andra Kerr has landed the anchor spot for the ‘Politics Scotland’ bulletins.

    In the week end of the no such thing as a Scottish Conservative Party virtual Conference, I tuned in, certain that, given the ‘iter sabbati’ through which the Blue Meanies have gone, then Wee Andra would have several big juicy bones to ‘Yes But, Hang On A Minute, Just To Be Clear, So What You’re Saying Is’ sink his teeth into .

    Johnson declaring Devolution North of the Border (so we are a separate country then?) as a disaster, Tony Blair’s biggest mistake.

    Priti Patel shouting swearing bullying harassing civil servants ‘unintentionally’ whitewash, the PPE ‘chumocracy’ scandal, where a Spanish spiv gets £19 million for phoning China, and another friend of the Blue Meanies makes enough to buy a £1.5 million Tudor Mansion, and pay himself and his wife hundreds of thousands to procure PPE .

    Look up the details, Duggers, this is getting too long already..

    The Indyref polls, and Approval Ratings of Johnson/ Sturgeon, and the 4 Governments’ handling of the Covid crisis made for drastically sad reading if you were a Jock Blue Meanie this week.

    Brown was dragged out into his back garden again, and Malcolm Rifkind (remember the Chinese cash for influence sting?) joining the Clunking Fist in arguing for a Convention and Federalism.

    Like ancient Rome upon which the Brit Empire was modelled, Johnson’s Empire 2 was crumbling to dust by the minute, and that’s before we reach the Brexit No Deal buffers.

    And as sure as it don’t rain in Minneapolis in the summer time, the Linesman got a ten minute spot on BBC Scotland Sunday Bollocktics, doubtless pumping with adrenalin in anticipation of the Andrew Neill level grilling tieless Kerr was about to subject him.

    Och, don’t be silly. It’s the new improved culled BBC Northern Stockade.

    I’ll stop now. Back later with the Exocet missile deadly barrage of questions fired mercilessly at the Linesman by Kerr.

  48. The Linesman’s Tale Part Two

    The interview was pre recorded, but with skilful editing, it was broadcast as though live.

    It matters, but, later.

    It was clear from the get go that Kerr was merely acting as a teleprompt for Dross.

    The questions were asked, The Linesman gave his answers peppered with SNP Bad 13 1/2 years ‘schools, hospitals jobs the economy, devolve decisions to LA’s funded by WM…the usual unchallenged guff.’

    Question One.

    ‘The PM says this week that Devolution is a disaster. What difference will your plans to local communities?’

    ‘Well this has been the central theme of my speech this week…blah de blah SNP Bad…

    Question Two

    Big Focus in your speech on towns and villages. Is that where your base is? Have you given up on the cities?’

    No, not at all but when the Bad SNP concentrate on the Central Belt…ya de yah.

    Question Three

    ‘Let’s stick with Devolution . Of course the Prime Minister , his speech at your virtual conference was talking about his controversial comments this week. He was still reported to having been saying it was Tony Blair’s biggest mistake . He really doesn’t like it does he?’

    The Linesman corrects Kerr. ‘He does’.

    Mayor of London twice blah de blah…Bad SNP Holyrood schools hospitals law and order want to separate Scotland from the UK…

    Question Four

    ‘What was the Prime Minister up to in that speech to ‘Northern’ (my parenthesis) MPs? Was he playing to the gallery, do you think? Have you spoken to the Prime Minister this week?’

    The Linesman reassures us all that he has spoken to the PM, texted him, been in discussions with Number 10, and was going to have a ‘sit down’ with ‘the Prime Minister’ (neither man mentioned ‘the Prime Minister’ by name. Perhaps his very name, Boris Johnson, is already too toxic.) last Wednesday but it was cancelled ‘cos Johnson had to self isolate.

    ‘But I’m in regular contact with number 10 and the PM, to ensure that Scotland’s is very well heard.’

    Bless.

    Sounds like Dross has more access to Johnson that B-Lister Jack?
    Or the FM?

    Aye, richt.

  49. The Linesman’s Tale :- Part Three

    Question Five

    ‘So you as Leader of the Scottish Conservatives, you had your first Conference speech yesterday, do you feel that you are doing this job with one hand tied behind your back ? Even two hands tied behind your back? That’s the message I’ve been getting from Scottish Conservatives I’ve been speaking to this week’.

    I quote Dross’ mock indignant response verbatim.

    “Well anyone who saw yesterday’s speech will see I am absolutely up for the fight. So if anyone thinks that I have one or two hands tied behind my back, I can assure them that I am absolutely determined to continue fighting hard for every single person, family, and community across Scotland.” (This drivel is meaningless of course. Ed.)

    Question Six

    ‘Now in your speech you said you would be fighting this election on the SNP’s record in power, not about Independence, but this is an election about what the people want it to be about and Professor Sir John Curtice was pointing out that actually it does seem that people want it to be about independence.’

    The Linesman, chary of slagging the Prof murmurs:- ‘Well, far be it for me to criticise Sir John Curtice BUT….’ Then the usual garbage about opinion poll not wanting Indyref for 5 years and that ‘we were told this was settled 6 years ago’.

    Question Seven

    ‘But that’s perhaps a different strand (whit ! Ed.) to the argument.
    It’s about the strategy for this election. You don’t want it to be about independence but if you want to look for a new strategy what is the positive case for the Union?’

    The Linesman is wilting by now. Rishi Sunak furlough million jobs saved vaccine and a message of ‘hope’ going forward.

    Question Eight

    ‘ Do you actually think that be First Minister?
    ‘In it to win it’ etc., etc.,

    And that was it.
    A ten minute free ride courtesy of Planation Quay.

    This man thinks that he can become FM.

    I checked on Youtube. Surely not?

    But there he was, miraculously transposed to Ibrox park running the line, 12.00 o’clock kick off.

    So even during the Blue Meanies Jock Conference week end, this wee carpetbagger was off on his toes from Plantation Quay to Ibrox picking up pin money; so much for him being ‘absolutely up for the fight’.

    If the PM phoned between 12.00 and 14.00 hrs yesterday, would Dross have answered?
    Of course not.

    How can even the most die hard Jock Blue Meanie take this man seriously?

    He obviously doesn’t see anything wrong with moonlighting with the SFA while lying to us all that neither of his hands are tied behind his back and that he is ‘fighting for ‘every single person, family, and community across Scotland.’

    This BBC Plantation Quay slice of Blue Tory Propaganda may be a sample of what we can expect.

    A prerecorded PPB with 8 tepid pre-notified questions from Kerr, with no interruptions or challenges to Dross’ lies, spliced into the ‘live’ broadcast to fool us mugs into thinking that the Linesman was actually there, being spontaneous, actually in the studio, doing his day job.
    Wag The Dog.

    Not one ‘Yes but’, not one, ‘Hang On a Minute’

    Nothing about Brexit.

    They could have replaced Kerr with a Ham shank and nobody would have noticed.

    Ends.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Excellent report and thanks for writing it up, brought a few laughs but part three and the questions. Total disgrace what passes for “unbiased” media political coverage in Scotland.

      Scunnered, you should be!

  50. Dr Jim says:

    No matter what the government in Westminster say or do the British media still treat the institution of that government with respect because they are no matter how they behave, (hushed tones) the government

    In Scotland our government are treated with the respect the Westminster government tells the media to have for them. which is none, no hushed tones for our lot, no acceptance to the fact that they decide what happens within Scotland, no, the media in Scotland considers (spit out tones) the *Scottish government* to be an imposition placed upon them personally that they, the media, don’t want to be bothered with as it’s beneath their imaginary stature that got in the way from them interviewing the real government, when they deigned to come to Scotland that is, so now the Scottish media invented the job for themselves as the opposition party that nobody voted for, and how much better is that than actually standing for parliament

    It seems that everyone and his bag of sweeties from far wide and other countries are insisting that Scotland’s government and its people desperately need their uninvited help, and that would be fine if the countries the *help* is being offered from were the good sensible countries but it’s not is it, we keep getting the real mad loony brigade from mental ex Scots who live in England

    I know what you’re thinking and you’re right but I’m going to mention Andrew Neil Andrew Marr Michael Gove George Galloway as a small example of ex Scots who within what seems minutes of taking up residence in England imagine they’ve become superior and more clevererer than the rest of us

    Must be the Cocaine in the unfiltered sewage water supply that the Calgon can’t destroy

  51. Jacksg says:

    I have just seen the PM recent announcement on COVID in the Guardian. What a bloody shitshow.

    They have spent three weeks in lockdown to fix their laughable test and trace and what have they achieved. Precisely Hee haw.

    Now all the shops and Gyms can open, and 4000 fans can attend a football match. Absolute lunacy 😠

    • Alex Clark says:

      It’s beyond belief, the BBC even describing them as “tougher tiers”. It won’t end well if there is another u-turn and another total lockdown brought in.

      You never see much of Professor Chris Whitty the Chief Medical Officer these days, nor come to think of it, his sidekick Sir Patrick Vallance, the Chief Scientific Advisor.

      They’re probably too busy right now dealing with Covid to make TV appearances.

      • Legerwood says:

        I noticed their absence too and wondered if they were in splendid isolation after getting too close to some Tory MPs

  52. vivianoblivian7 says:

    Latest YouGov, Westminster voting intentions, Scottish sub-sample (field work 17 – 18 Nov).
    Con 18%, Lab 18%, LibDem 3%, SNP 55%, Green 4%.
    It’s just a sub-sample, just a bit of fun, but this is the only time I’ve seen the Greens out poll the LibDems.
    More plausibly, sum the last 8 sub-samples to create a full size population sample (1,000+) and average. This actually works (to a degree). Figures and trend.
    Con 19.75% down, Lab 17.0% level, LibDem 4.6% down, SNP 51.25% up.

  53. Republicofscotland says:

    One has to wonder, I we haven’t seen Sturgeon reiterate Blackford’s claim that they’ll be an indyref next year, maybe she has, of course it doesn’t cost anything and garners goodwill from the indy faithful to have an independence pledge in next years manifesto, and to have bills passed to pave the way for it.

    All very convincing if you ask me, but are the usual suspects Sturgeon, Wishart, Blackford etc just in early campaigning mode to draw voters in with dreams of an independent Scotland, via an indyref next year.

    With no Plan B to fall back on, it looks like if there were to be an indyref next year (I think its very unlikely) we’d need to rely on Johnson agreeing to an S30, which he has stated that he will not issue. Martin Keating’s hearing on whether we need an S30 or not will take place on the 21st and 22nd of January next year, despite the Scottish government and the Lord Advocates failed attempts to block Mr Keating from finding out whether we need an S30 or not.

    One must surely ask themselves why the Scottish government and the Lord Advocate wanted to block Mr Keating, surely it should’ve been the SNP governments job to find this out, and let to a private citizen to crowd fund it.

    • douglasclark says:

      I have, financially supported Martin Keatings action. In retrospect I’d still do it!

    • grizebard says:

      There you go again on your “no plan B” mantra. It’s getting to be an infestation. You seem to believe that if you simply ignore all the responses you’ve had so far it will somehow make a difference anyway, but actually we’re bored, bored, bored by its utter futility.

  54. douglasclark says:

    I have found it easiest, over a good few years, to take anything the Gordon Brown says as inspired (?) by self interest. At one stage, early on in his regieme, folk supported him. I did not. I found it easier on the mind to assume that everything he said had a counterpoint. And that, usually, the counterpoint was more convincing than his narrative. Words were never followed by actions that left the UK in a better position than he started with.

    Fortunately, for him, he will go down in history as the interregnum between a right wing conservative, Blair, and yet another right wing conservative, Cameron. That transfer of power was enabled by Gordon Brown. Historians will hardly care.

    That is all he brought to the table.

    So, I have no idea why anyone is listening to him now. Quite why he is not standing on the rooftops screaming about his, ‘personal’ vow being disrespected, suggest that he has an inner and outer surface and neither of them are consistent.

    Take it from me, dear reader, it is my default position that whatever Gordon Brown says he believes in, is the opposite of the word ‘achievable’. Or in his case, desireable.

    • grizebard says:

      I know. What actually motivates him now puzzles me.

      If he were an honest man, he would long ago have made it clear that the promises he made back when were not only not honoured, they were grossly traduced (not least by his own party, the biggest renegers of the Smith Commission). Then he might have deserved and recovered at least some respect. He should have had the humility to admit that he was offering assurances that were based on nothing more than wishful thinking, but humility was obviously never his thing.

      However doing it all again now, in circumstances where it isn’t even wishful thinking but downright near-impossible, is crossing a line, even for a politician. A line of no return. It’s plain disrespectful of the people of Scotland, and as such is thoroughly contemptible.

  55. Alex Clark says:

    We need all pull together in one final push to the spring when we defeat this nasty virus. Says the clown in charge of the UK.

    Meanwhile, the scientists in SAGE who are watching live on telly are all shaking their heads and wishing they’d never signed up to “advise” this government in the first place.

  56. Dr Jim says:

    It’s a dangerous politician who weighs up the balance between trying to create more popularity for himself by allowing more people the freedom of choice whether to kill themselves or to risk people realising that politician is just trying to make himself more popular
    The people of England may decide to empty their heads of basic common sense and deliberately ignore the truth or they may use their intelligence and do what they know to be the right thing to keep themselves alive, in either case the dangerous politician juggling popularity and risk to human life will get the blame if and when it goes wrong, and there’s every likely hood that by the middle of January the people of England won’t be blaming themselves if and when it does

    Maybe nobody told Boris Johnson that the politician always always gets the blame because the people always always say: But he/she said! which absolves all human beings from self blame

    • Legerwood says:

      He has just done the same thing that he did in the summer which was basically: everything is open go and enjoy yourself. He has not learned anything from what happened the last time.

  57. Republicofscotland says:

    An interesting explanation from Pete Wishart as to which route we’d take if Johnson keeps on sayin nog to the S30 order. I found this paragraph worth a mention, as it conflicts with current SNP policy of a no Plan B approach.

    “But just say those who profoundly believe ‘he will never agree’ are right and we are in a situation where even with a majority a referendum is ‘refused’. What happens next? Well something would have to give. It would be intolerable for any Government to forbid a nation to progress to a new constitutional arrangement if a majority desire it. ”

    “At this stage we would face two choices. We could either embark on a series of measures to ‘make’ the UK face up to its democratic responsibilities or we determine a process that would no longer involve the UK as a partner and hope that any outcome would be respected by the international community and continue to carry the support of the Scottish people.”

    https://petewishart.wordpress.com/2020/11/23/what-happens-if-boris-says-no/

    • Alex Clark says:

      There is only one plan and it doesn’t have a letter after the word plan.

      Who is it that is currently panicking over support for Independence?

    • Dr Jim says:

      The assumption that there is a no plan B policy is incorrect, the policy is there will be no talking about a plan B policy, which is an entirely different policy, no one is saying there are or aren’t contingencies and it would be foolish to talk about them if there were

      I seem to remember the UK government adopted a similar position over Brexit to which all interested parties attempted constantly to extract information as to what plans ABC and so forth were

      • Alex Clark says:

        A “plan” doesn’t have a single focus, such that if it falls at the first hurdle then the “plan” is over and we need to go back and rewrite a new plan. How ridiculous is that?

        A plan, like a game of chess, considers all the possible opponent’s moves that they can see based on the current situation. A good plan considers the next step for every possible response from their opponent. As the position changes and evolves, then so too does the plan.

        Plan A, then Plan B, then Plan C is an infantile way of looking at any serious strategy for gaining Independence. This has been nothing but a diversion and a good method of attacking the SNP.

        Who would want to do that most?

        • Golfnut says:

          The SNP don’t have a plan, they have a strategy. That strategy will be both proactive and passive and if the Strategy and sub strategies are good you probably won’t be able to tell the difference.

    • grizebard says:

      Oh, do yourself and us a favour and take your noisome propaganda back to where it came from. There’s no useful debate to be had on this matter until events unfold after the election. (Though one suspects that by then you will have vanished as suddenly as you appeared.)

  58. jfngw says:

    BBC pushing hard an EIS survey quoting figures percentage figures, but the one they missed is what percentage of teachers took part in this survey. It is disingenuous to claim 30% of teachers support a certain position if only a small percentage actually took the voluntary survey.

    The EIS are coming across as another Anti-SNP positioned organisation, they seem to be politically positioned in the same area as Labour, how strange.

    Also the head of Labour in Scotland, at lunchtime, demanding only those tested should be allowed back into care homes. From this I deduce he wants either forced testing of those at end of life or that they be made to die in hospital, there is no middle ground on this one.

    • Dr Jim says:

      Yep, there are elderly people with assorted complications of illnesses involved who for reasons of reasonable care both mentally and physically cannot tolerate a 6 inch swab in their throat and nose that can in some cases induce sheer terror, that’s always been the clinical policy when releasing elderly patients into care homes providing the homes pursue the correct disciplines of infection control on arrival, the opposition never want to talk about those circumstances and never want to mention the staff or visitor responsibilities as causes of infection, they just want to imply the FM or SG don’t care, it’s low and it’s nasty but quite expected, cue Neil Findlay pretendy choking up as if he doesn’t understand how the FM can be so evil in her Independenceness

    • Petra says:

      ”The EIS are coming across as another Anti-SNP positioned organisation, they seem to be politically positioned in the same area as Labour, how strange.”..

      ”Larry Flanagan (born Scotland 1955) is a Scottish trade union leader (EIS) and former politician. Flanagan attended the University of Stirling before becoming a teacher at Blantyre High School. He also became active in the Militant Tendency and in the Labour Party.”..

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Flanagan

      And the last I heard his brother was heavily involved with the EIS too.

      ‘Aberdeenshire maths teacher is new EIS vice-president.’

      http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/426021/aberdeenshire-maths-teacher-is-new-eis-vice-president/

    • Bob Lamont says:

      The GCC Labour fiasco over equal pay was eventually resolved under the new SNP administration, but payment wasn’t been made fast enough so far as the Union and Labour were concerned so they organised a march to protest..

      Where SNP are concerned it is not just DRoss and Davidson who are two-faced hypocrites and opportunists…

    • grizebard says:

      Oh indeed. It’s pathetic last-gasp Bouncing Man rescue strategy for the elections. The Labour moan escalated into putative strike action during a crisis, FGS, as if that will help anyone. Not even their woebegone “leader”. They even had the nerve to accuse the SG of “being political”! Projection, nothing else. The two-faced shit-stirrers, they’re already fully involved in the decision-making over schools. If they have any reasonable issues to discuss, the SG door is always wide open to them, as well they know, but they run for help from the right-wing rags instead.

      This coming election is going to decimate the NorthBritLab Whiner Party. Deservedly. And the sooner the better for everyone’s sake.

  59. Tam the Bam says:

    BBC Misreporting Scotland has devoted all of 30 secs. covering the opening of the new Scottish Investment Bank.
    They allocate 5 Minutes to yet another meandering non-story concerning care homes.

    • Stephen McKenzie says:

      Tam, its been s sham of a news programme for years. Anything and everything to try and run down Scotland for its masters is all it cares about.

      Did they quote Scotlands Covid statistics today? I never heard it.

      But then of course it was EIS day.. as tomorrow’s main story will be “Sturgeon bans visiting your Granny at New Year” along with various voice pops demanding free black bun and extra helpings of Jackie Bird.

      • Petra says:

        The journalists at the briefing today, some, had moved on from Xmas and were focusing on Hogmanay.already primed to rip Spoiler Sturgeon apart.

  60. Alex Clark says:

    Prof Chris Whitty due to make a rare appearance alongside the PM, should be interesting.

  61. Whitty and the guy from the vaccine lab both look frightened Whitty especially horror and fear in their eyes, Boris babbling throwing arms and hands forward punching the air and blethering nonsense when asked a question .
    He isn’t able so he babbles on , fake advice fake information winging it .

    Poor old England , you gave the job of Prime minister to a buffoon

  62. Ken2 says:

    When the time comes. The time is right for the Scottish Gov to go to Court. It can be legitimately funded by Scottish taxpayers. It would be a simpler process.

    Or not needed or necessary if another IndyRef is conceded. It could go ahead without the Court process or action. It is just an ongoing process. When the voters vote for it.

  63. Petra says:

    ‘Revealed: Boris Johnson’s controversial policy chief leading secretive NHS task force.’

    ..”Boris Johnson’s government has for the first time confirmed the existence of a prime ministerial task force which is reportedly planning a “radical shake-up of the NHS”.”..

    ..”Mirza, a political appointee who previously worked for Johnson when he was London mayor, has no background or policy experience in health. The disclosures also reveal that whilst some Department of Health officials do attend the task force, it is led by four senior civil servants based at the Treasury, and none of whom are from the Department of Health.”..

    ..”What today’s disclosures do show is that the task force’s civil service policy lead is Adrian Masters. An alumnus of the management consultancy McKinsey, Masters played a key role in shaping the last major piece of NHS legislation, the 2012 Health and Social Care Act.”..

    ..”Boris Johnson has faced criticism for appointing political allies with no health experience to key roles in the COVID-19 response. Test and Trace head Dido Harding, another former McKinsey employee and Tory peer, is in the process of taking over a large portion of the soon-to-be-abolished Public Health England’s remit, the government announced in August. She has also been tipped as favourite to take over as chief executive of the English NHS from the current incumbent, Simon Stevens, next year.”..

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/revealed-boris-johnsons-controversial-policy-chief-leading-secretive-nhs-task-force/

    • Welsh Siôn says:

      This from Petra’s article, too:

      The task force also includes William Warr: Johnson’s health advisor and a former lobbyist at the firm of Lynton Crosby, who masterminded numerous Conservative Party election campaigns and Johnson’s successful 2008 London mayoral bid.

      Warr described the NHS as “outdated” in a Telegraph article [LINKED BELOW] penned shortly before he and Johnson entered Downing Street last year, suggesting that the incoming prime minister should ask himself: “If I created the NHS today from scratch, what would it look like?” Warr answered: “Nothing like the monolith we have today.”

      _______________

      So …I just managed to sneak this out before the Telegraph drawbridge came crashing down:

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/19/will-next-pm-bold-enough-tackle-biggest-challenge-facing-nhs/

      The Telegraph – 19 July 2019

      William Warr

      Our outdated health system is obsessed with treating diseases rather than preventing them in the first place

      The Tory leadership race is now coming to an end, after an extraordinary few months in which we’ve heard about citizens’ assemblies, the merits and demerits of proroguing Parliament and (literal) kippers. But what is perhaps most remarkable, given public sentiment, is that neither of the two remaining candidates has said much about the National Health Service. According to one recent poll, the public believe the NHS should be the next prime minister’s top spending priority. 

      When the next PM takes office, they should perform a simple thought experiment, and ask themselves the following question: “If I created the NHS today from scratch, what would it look like?” The answer would be – nothing like the monolith we have today.

      Our highly centralised healthcare model dates back to a different era of disease: a time of post-war rationing, long before obesity was an issue, before science showed how genes affect disease risk; before the advent of vaccines for major infectious diseases such as polio; before smartphones enabled a shift from episodic acute care in hospitals, characteristic of infectious diseases, to continuous management of chronic disease from the home. The NHS legacy system has failed to embrace these shifts and is hopelessly ill-equipped to deal with the chronic diseases threatening the public’s health today.

      But more money is not the solution. The ageing population is often touted as the reason health spending needs to increase faster than economic growth, but this is not the case. The NHS’s own chief economist has confirmed that ageing makes a very small difference to overall costs. 
      Over the last 20 years, funding has poured into healthcare in response to headlines warning of immediate crises, increasing in real terms from £60bn to over £150bn, even before the PM’s additional £20bn pledge last year. There are of course fundamental issues with the way funds have been deployed, not to mention serious problems with nurse training, junior doctor morale, pension taxation for senior clinicians and a fatal lack of integration with social care. Yet all too often, additional funding has merely been used to treat the symptoms of NHS pressure – waiting times, staff productivity – rather than the causes of pressure: the public health crisis.

      Traditional public health policies treat everyone the same regardless of their lifestyles or risk of disease. Although such interventions have been successful in the past, they also exacerbate inequalities and restrict personal freedoms – “sin taxes” like the levy on sugary drinks are regressive, while public health messaging campaigns resonate predominantly with the middle classes. 

      The only way to prevent is to predict. And DNA is the best predictor around. Today, through a genetic test costing £20 we can identify individuals with a 4-5 times greater risk of contracting every major chronic illness. Why would you spend limited government resources screening and treating the whole population the same, when you could focus on those most at risk, and not restrict the personal liberties of individuals whose protective genetic traits leave them at a very low risk?

      The average individual spends six hours each year in the NHS. The same person spends three hours a day on their phone. Smartphones can nudge and guide individuals towards healthier habits, shifting autonomy away from doctors and towards the individual. Yet the NHS’s digital efforts have been feeble, relying on clunky, crash-prone apps, while the technology industry has largely focused on getting people addicted to swiping right with their thumbs, rather than promoting physical activity. This is now changing, with many tech companies pivoting into healthcare ventures. The NHS of the future should engage patients using their mobile devices to encourage healthier lifestyles.

      Beyond technology, the NHS must prioritise prevention, though the politics of this are tricky. The poet Joseph Malins outlined this very dilemma in a work of 1895.

      “A fence may be useful or not, it is true,

      But each heart became brimful of pity
      For those who slipped over that dangerous cliff; 
      And the dwellers in highway and alley
      Gave pounds or gave pence, not to put up a fence, 
      But an ambulance down in the valley.”

      Astonishingly little has changed. To date, the NHS has invested in a system that prizes ambulances over fences, that is obsessed with treating diseases rather than preventing them in the first place. Just last week, I interviewed a GP who said he did not have time to guide patients to the most effective weight loss services because he needed to treat their diabetes. I pointed out that being obese increases your risk of type two diabetes 40-fold, to which he replied that there was no financial incentive to treat obesity.

      This not only demonstrates how staff have been brainwashed by the financial targets introduced under Blair, but also how the architects of those targets are failing to do that all-important thought experiment outlined above. It is easier to throw money at the most obvious manifestations of the problem than to start investing in the young and middle ages’ health with non-medical lifestyle interventions, but this is the only way health spending will come under control in the long run. 

      The challenge for the next Prime Minister will be to make the sirens of prevention ring louder than those of the ambulance and to direct interventions intelligently, towards those that need help, rather than mindlessly targeting everyone. You do not need to restrict someone with a fence who has no risk of going near the cliff edge.

      William Warr is a Doctoral Researcher at The University of Oxford

    • Golfnut says:

      The 2012 Health and social care Act, where the UK gov divested itself of the responsibility to provide Health care.

      • Golfnut says:

        Reads a bit like Genitics and eugenics are getting a bit of an airing.

      • Welsh Siôn says:

        This Act has special resonance in this household …

        The wife is an NHS Hearing Therapist (a post we believe that does not exist in Scotland). and is part of the frontline facing external competitive threats from the likes of Specsavers and others as the Tories salami-ise the NHS into the hands of ‘any competent provider’ (aka ‘our mates).

      • grizebard says:

        Oh, the late unlamented Con-Lab coalition. Shirley Williams, who of anyone in the world should have known better, disgraced herself in public by ridiculously claiming that “oh, dear, no, it isn’t backdoor privatisation”. (Just one of the ways the posh-boy Cameron Tories reduced their “pals” the FibDems to inconsequent jelly.) Polly Toynbee excoriated her righteously over it in an article in the Guardian (to which I used to subscribe).

        • grizebard says:

          Sorry, that obviously should be the “Con-Lib” coalition. (Sometimes they all seem to blend into one single multi-headed hydra.)

  64. Tam the Bam says:

    Off Topic:
    Just watched the second part of a documentary entitled ‘Making Scotland’s Landscape’ hosted by Prof. Iain Stewart.
    …. its a good watch.

  65. Republicofscotland says:

    Well this is interesting, Johnson and Gove now blaming Sturgeon for low Brexit deal, Sturgeon has made mistakes but this isn’t one of them, infact its a bonus for Scotland I think.

    https://order-order.com/2020/11/23/sturgeon-accused-of-sabotaging-brexit-negotiations/

  66. jfngw says:

    How do you know the BBC is in retain the union mode. Well my radar is telling me that D.Ross has had more air time in Scotland than Keir Starmer. Then there is Reporting Scotland, a stream of stories telling us how bad the Scottish government is tailed with story about the great UK vaccine, the best vaccine in the world, it Trump’s all the others.

    • Welsh Siôn says:

      … the great UK vaccine, the best vaccine in the world, it Trump’s all the others.

      _________

      Bigly.

    • Republicofscotland says:

      Ah yes the Oxford vaccine, which started off as 70% effective at Lunchtime, and by tea time it had reached 90% effectiveness. The staggering of doses, to reach the 90% caveat was quietly dialled down by the British nationalist media, to make it appear more impressive.

      • jfngw says:

        Yes, they say the golden years of BBC comedy is behind us, but every night there is Reporting Scotland, knocks spots of Spitting Image, isn’t quit as good as The Day Today.

      • Tam the Bam says:

        Oh for heavens sake….read the report:
        1) Trials were carried out vaccinating with 2x high dose.
        2) Trials were carried out vaccinating with half dose + high dose.
        The ‘staggering’ result to which you refer denotes the half dose+ high dose innoculation.
        #happy to help

    • Julia Gibb says:

      Reporting Scotland always reminds me of the movie “Trainspotting”.
      “We are shite……………!”

  67. Alex Clark says:

    I like to follow the news using the website newsnow.co.uk I’m have a look more often than is probably healthy but have it on UK news all the time.

    I’ve used the same site for many months but what sticks out a mile during this second wave of Covis-19 is the headlines from the BBC that proclaim along the lines of:

    “Six residents die in Covid outbreak at care home”

    https://archive.vn/wip/kRNEp

    There have been quite a few in recent weeks that even I in my fleeting visits have seen, every one of them is from BBC Scotland. They must have someone specially tasked with Scottish Government Bad.

    I have never seen a single headline from any source that reveals the number of deaths in any other care home in the UK apart from Scotland. This media we have are utterly disgusting and we will be well rid of them on our Independence. There is such a thing as overkill and they are well past that stage, now only the truly ignorant fail to see the bias and propaganda being pumped out by the BBC.

    I’ll spit on the BBC’s grave.

    • grizebard says:

      The trouble is, it could take the whole notion of free and fair public-service broadcasting down with it.

      (Despite everything, there is a case in this opinion-bubble world to maintain a genuinely-trusted shared source of news and programming. To have any hope of surviving, though, it needs to be communally funded well away from the purse-strings of any government, and properly responsive to the public it exists to serve.)

      • Alex Clark says:

        I agree, I don’t want broadcasting in the hands of the billionaires like Murdoch either.

        However, the BBC is “communally funded” as if you by law if you want to watch it then you must pay the governement a fee for a license. Doesn’t help as since they are controlled totally bt=y the government then so to is the output that will support that government.

        It’s a conundrum.

        • grizebard says:

          I think it’s possible, by means (say) of a non-profit mutual owned by the public and run by a board of governors elected by the public. After all, it’s we the licence-payers who really fund the existing BBC, not the government, which just gets in the way. Get rid of the middle-man!

  68. Tam the Bam says:

    Yeehaa!!!

    The GSA (General Services Agreement….USA) have just annouced they are commencing transitioning with incoming new President!
    BYE DONNIE!

  69. Hamish100 says:

    I see Flanagan of the EIS is pushing for strike action for teachers. How low can you get? A pandemic and the EIS tries to take advantage.

    Low paid local government workers and nhs and private healthcare earn a pittance compared to them.

    If they go on strike will EIS members wanting to strike volunteer to work in care homes and put up with 20 days annual leave?

    I know 2 incidents of infection occurring in schools because teachers didn’t social distance during breaks.

    Flanagan has a minority of a minority voting for action.

    Thankfully the majority of teachers are trying their best to educate their pupils.

    This smells of labourite politics.

  70. Julia Gibb says:

    Flanagan is out of touch with teachers, parents, politicians and above all….reality.
    It is not the first time.

    • Dr Jim says:

      It’s got Labour written all over it…….again!

    • grizebard says:

      What these heavy-handed Labourite union types fail to realise is that their would-be disruptive antics during a truly historical crisis can only serve to bring themselves into disrepute, not the SG. They’re an unwelcome throwback to the 1970s.

    • Legerwood says:

      Mr Flanagan represents the EIS on the Covid-19 Education Recovery Group set up by the Scottish Government.

      Full details of the make-up of the group, links to the minutes of their meetings and a link to the dashboard giving details of absences in schools can be found here

      https://www.gov.scot/groups/covid-19-education-recovery-group/

      It is worth a read. The dashboard in particular contains useful information. From Mr Flanagan’s statements so faithfully recorded in the Herald you would never know he was part of this group and thus party to the information and research findings that inform its advice to the SG

  71. yesindyref2 says:

    Teachers would NOT be striking for more pay.

    Mr Flanagan continued, “Although members hold a range of opinions on the best means of keeping pupils and teachers safe, there is clear support for moving to industrial action in higher risk areas to protest where teachers feel that the measures required to keep schools safe have not been delivered.”

    https://www.eis.org.uk/Latest-News/SurveyResultsNov

    Anyone who thinks that unions should not represent their members on the issue of safety at work is Margaret Thatcher and I claim my £5.

    • “”Disappointing @ScotNational repeats @BBCScotlandNews line that “majority of teachers back strike action on level 4 virus risk”. This is majority of 18k teachers who completed the survey (18k of 54k), so under 1 in 4, with very large % with health issues. Please report accurately”

      So, 33% responded.
      EVERYBODY OUT !!!

      What fucking 1960’s planet are you people on?
      Planet Flanagan, Mighty Ming of the Commie Militants?

      Hatred of the SNP is the motive here.
      No one in their right minds believes this guff.
      Hot news..we’re all feeling a bit scared at the moment.
      The vast majority of us are doing out bit to beat this plague, unlike the Larry Flanagans and Neil Findlays of the Red Menace…
      Industrial action? For Feck’s sake.

    • Hamish100 says:

      Should the teachers breaking social distancing rules, meeting their teaching pals out of work and bringing COVID into school get disciplined?

      • Should the 2/3rds who didn’t even respond to Flanagan’s Strike Call just vote the wee agitator out of office?

        What’s his take home pay btw? Six figures plus a big fat earnings related index linked pension?

  72. Capella says:

    Good news, Paul’s article in The National saying he and Peter have bought their new house:

    EXCLUSIVELY for Sunday National readers, Wee Ginger Dug author Paul Kavanagh provides the latest http://www.thenational.scot/news/18888984.paul-kavanagh-time-start-new-life-new-home-ayrshire-thanks-yes-people/?ref=appshr

  73. diabloandco says:

    Delighted to hear the news that you are up and off to Ayrshire.
    Hope Peter likes gardening!

  74. Alex Clark says:

    O/T This is an excellent article from Nature magazine on the Oxford vaccine, looks to me like the government have been over egging the good news again and that a good deal more research will be required before this vaccine obtains regulatory approval.

    Why Oxford’s positive COVID vaccine results are puzzling scientists

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03326-w

  75. Petra says:

    ‘What will it take for Westminster to give Holyrood a second referendum?’

    ..”Meanwhile, Joanna Cherry said: “If next year’s Scottish election is won by the SNP on the back of a clear commitment in our manifesto to hold a second independence referendum, then for the UK government to prevent such a referendum from proceeding would be a truly Trumpian breach of democracy.”

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-law-section-30

    ………………………………..

    ‘WHAT HAPPENS IF BORIS SAYS NO?’

    ..”You would think with all of this that the Yes movement would be ecstatic and even thinking of that first dram celebrating the impending death of the union, but not a bit of it. There are some, particularly on social media, who have become consumed with the view that there will never be an agreed referendum and a strange gloom and fatalism has taken hold.”..

    ..”The EU have always said that they would welcome an independent Scotland back into its ranks but only if independence was pursued constitutionally, legally and in their view, correctly. An uncontested plebiscite and talk of UDI would simply appall them.”..

    https://petewishart.wordpress.com/2020/11/23/what-happens-if-boris-says-no/

  76. Old Pete says:

    From Wikipedia

    ‘Larry Flanagan is a Scottish trade union leader and former politician. Flanagan attended the University of Stirling before becoming a teacher at Blantyre High School. He also became active in the Militant Tendency and in the Labour Party. He was elected to Glasgow City Council where he called for the party to oppose the Poll Tax with a campaign of non-payment He hoped to stand in the 1988 Glasgow Govan by-election, but was not considered as a candidate due to his involvement with Militant’

    Might hazard a guess that he is no lover of the SNP or Independence for Scotland.
    In my personal experience a large number of active union members in the Education sector are solid Labour and Britnats. They take any opportunity to push against the SNP government they can.

  77. Petra says:

    Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp:- ‘Is federalism a workable solution for Scotland?’

    …”As a matter of fact, federalism is nearly impossible to implement, as it would be heavily rejected by English voters, especially with only 10% of Conservative voters supporting the idea. As a concept, it falls well short of the powers Scotland would possess as an independent country and thus, would not work as a political alternative to independence. Federalism is often confused with the term “devo-max” which we discuss in another FAQ.”

    http://www.believeinscotland.org/is-federalism-a-workable-solution-for-scotland/

    ………………………………………

    ‘Federalism is a trap we should not be lured in to.’

    ”What unites Thatcher’s man in Scotland Sir Malcolm Rifkind and left-wing, anti-Tory firebrand Labour MSP Neil Findlay? They’re both agreed – it’s time for a federal solution to the Scottish question.”..

    https://sourcenews.scot/federalism-is-a-trap-we-should-not-be-lured-in-to/

  78. Petra says:

    How the liars lie and seem to get away with it!

    ‘The battle for Scotland and the language of apocalypse from Andrew Neil and the right.’

    ..”This tendency has been hugely accentuated on the right and pro-union circles, and this against a backdrop of worries, ill-heath, sickness and death over COVID-19. Step forward Andrew Neil who in a debate with SNP MP Alyn Smith said that ‘the level of poverty and deprivation in the East End of Glasgow is unrepeated anywhere in Western Europe’ and that ‘male longevity in parts of the East of Glasgow are on a par with sub-Saharan Africa’.

    Fraser Nelson used his own version of the above this week stating: ‘There are now parts of Glasgow where the life expectancy is worse than Mongolia, worse than Rwanda.’ To add to the groupthink on this Labour MP Ian Murray decided to make this claim even more sweeping saying without any hint of irony that ‘poverty in Glasgow is worse than parts of sub-Saharan Africa’ – taking Neil’s original words and making them into a statement utterly preposterous and insulting both to Glasgow and people living in poverty in Africa.

    Two major factors are at play in all this. One is how life expectancy is understood. In this the continual framing of Glasgow or parts of Glasgow as having levels equivalent to sub-Saharan Africa is totally grotesque and misleading. It is based on work by the Glasgow Centre for Population Health (GCPH), and figures for male life expectancy in the Glasgow East End ward of Carlton affected by the number of hostels and transient population, and a tiny postcode subset – and figures for 1998-2002.

    Neil continually quotes an out of date figure for Calton from nearly twenty years ago of 54 years for male life expectancy; a more recent figure for Calton and Bridgeton in 2012 showed 67.8 years life expectancy for men and 76.6 for women, and since then the area has been further transformed by investment. Yet, this has been made into an almost religious mantra by those on the right to try to prove that devolution and the SNP are not working for Scotland.”..

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2020/11/20/the-battle-for-scotland-and-the-language-of-apocalypse-from-andrew-neil-and-the-right/

    • Petra, there is now a bubbling rage among us Scots which will never be quelled.
      Marr Neil Kuenssberg Flanagan Murray and the legions of pip squeak Brit Nat politicians Up Here and the Fourth Estate Fifth Column led by BBC /ITN and the US/ English owned Dead Tree Scrolls insult threaten and lie to the people of Scotland on a daily basis.
      I am threatened by whom? From whom must I seek permission to set in motion the democratic return to Self Determination?

      A Big Fat womanising racist Englishman? Lizzie II of England?
      Baroness Davidson of Rape Clause?
      WE start the process now, as the Brexit shambles unfolds..not next May, when Wishart argues that we ‘wear down’ English resistance.
      I would walk out of WM now, and declare a SGE to be held before Spring and let’s get on with it.

      I watched that mockery of an ‘interview’ between Andrew Kerr and Dross. See my post above.
      Who gives this minority cult the right to forbid us Scots from deciding our own destiny on our terms. The Filthy Rich? The Bankers? The Money Lenders? The Bloody Barons who live in splendid isolation in their huge estates? The Dark hidden power brokers in the organised religions? The British Army, Navy and Air Force, defenders of the Union, who would readily put down us rebellious Scots if ordered to by the Big White adulterer?

      I have had it up to here…

      Independence is inevitable now.
      For those who don’t like it, ‘live with it’, or feck of back to the Dark Star to the South.
      I am more than a little teed off.
      Distorting Scotland today was wall to wall Scotland is shite/ SNP Bad/ NHS a shambles…..with a six second item tucked away at the end, before the weather, that alcohol deaths in Scotland had reduced by 10%. So minimum pricing might be working? SNP good?

      It is about to erupt.

      • Petra says:

        ”I have had it up to here…”

        ME TOO 🤬

        • Petra says:

          And what’s doubly galling Jack is that during the period from 1998-2002 (from my last post) the Labour Party was calling the shots north (Lab – Libdem) and south of the border. NOT the SNP!

          • They were as corrupt as Johnson Ross Murray and Carmichael are today, Petra.
            There are dozens of very well off ‘socialists’ who lined their own pockets while lying to their fellow S for their English paymasters.
            The dam has burst. There is no turning back.
            We shall prevail, within months now.

      • Dr Jim says:

        I believe most of Scotland has *had it up to here* ( hand shoots up over head ) but I also believe that those of us here have a more heightened awareness of it because we pay more attention to what’s happening than most folk so it affects us in a more urgent way, however most folk not like us abroad wider in the country I think now have an acceptance that Scotland is on its way to it’s new destiny and when the opportunity arrives Scotland will grab it with both hands this time

        I’m like you Jack, there are moments of murderous rage just well up at the whole damn thing moving at the speed of sludge in a sewer and I want to get in there and hack the shit out of it to get the blockage broken up but like the rest of the country I’m only armed with one rotten crummy wee vote and I want more, I want banners billboards bloody sky writing folk demanding, but everything’s running a year late and folk like you and I hate every minute of the waiting

        As for the long list of anti Scottish TV *personalities* I guess between us they wouldn’t last long would they, we’d have a ready solution for the lot of them

        • If I were 30 years younger, Jim.

          We have a whole slew of Fifth Columnists selling off Scotland to our English neighbours, willingly, maliciously, and contributing to the needless deaths of their fellow citizens..for money.

          This is not a ‘political’ issue. They are attempting to kill Scotland by corrupt decree and the threat of force of arms now.
          IT is war. A cold war, but naked aggression from the Brits nonetheless.

          And Wishart would have us ‘wear them down’, like some sort of petulant child getting money for ice cream by repeatedly whinging and moaning to the point where their parent eventually ‘gives in’ just to stop the whining in their ear?

          WE just say No more. It stops now. Not in May ’21 or 2040.

          I cannot be alone is asserting this truth. Scotland is, was, and always will be a nation, not a region or vanquished colony of England.

  79. Tatu3 says:

    Congratulations on the purchase of your new abode. Maybole, and Ayrshire, are where a lot of my family are from. Beautiful part of Scotland. Hope you’ll be very happy there.

    • Petra says:

      Maybole Town 😀

      • Paul, well done. My Everlovin’ and I pass through Maybole on the way to Cairnryan many times a year.
        Consider yourself a,ahem, ‘P stop’, especially on Sundays..

        Get well, Pal. Plant some Ayrshire tatties.Mmm white fleshed creamy New Potatoes melting in butter, from your own garden…you lucky lucky man.
        Well done indeed.

  80. Petra says:

    ‘Around the corner.’ With a video from Phantom Power.

    ”This is an excellent video, made some months ago, that lays out what is ahead of Scotland unless it secures independence soon.”..

    https://newsnet.scot/news-analysis/around-the-corner/

    ……………………………………

    What the BBC doesn’t tell you.

    ”So this is the actual picture of Covid infection rates. Devolved Celtic countries have performed much better than Westminster. I hope the 4 nation approach listens to the more sensible administrations.” https://mobile.twitter.com/Melfynjones1/status/1330824754106929153

  81. Petra says:

    Tommy Sheridan:- ”Boris Defends Bully Patel but Not Pensioners – His Govt is Morally Repugnant.”

    https://sputniknews.com/amp/columnists/202011221081245138-boris-defends-bully-patel-but-not-pensioners–his-govt-is-morally-repugnant/?__twitter_impression=true

    ……………………………………..

    Check out Ann’s latest links on the Indyref2 site.

    https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/links-tuesday-24-november-2020/

  82. yesindyref2 says:

    Quite shocking to see such hatred of a trade unionist, and indeed Labour. There would be no Labour without trade unions and vice versa as far as history is concerned. Far from being “SNP Baaaad”, trade unions as far as the SNP are concerned are organisations they want to work with, and convince of the merits of Independence. It’s the Tories have tried to close down unions, so it’s doubly shocking to see Indy supporters taking the Tory Maggie Thatcher view of Unions.

    The SNP first started working with unions, not last year, not during Indy ref 1, not during the devoution campaign, 1997 or 1979, but in 1965, and I’m trebly shocked to see such ignorance of and implicit oppostion to – the SNP TUG. Do you not care about achieving Independence in pursuit of your hatred of Labour and one trade unionist?

    The SNP Trade Union Group (TUG) is an affiliated organisation of the Scottish National Party (SNP). They were formed in 1965 as the Association of Scottish Nationalist Trade Unionists (ASNTU) to persuade Scottish trade unionists of the virtues of Scottish independence and to ensure the SNP has an organised presence in the trade union movement.

    The TUG is allowed to send delegates to the SNP Annual National Conference and National Council meetings, and has one representative on the National Executive Committee (NEC).

    Stated Aims

    The stated aims of the SNP Trade Union Group are:

    Encourage SNP members to become active in their trade unions
    Advise SNP members on the best trade union for their industry
    Encourage SNP members to utilise the democratic trade union structures to build support for Independence
    Act as a major conduit between the party and the trade union movement, complemented by our Holyrood backbench TU Group meeting regularly with trade unions
    Encourage dialogue from all levels of the party with the trade union movement
    Help shape SNP policy with delegates to National Council, Conference and our own place on the party’s National Executive Committee
    Ensure that trade union members across Scotland are not funding the Labour party through their trade union subscriptions”

    and note the last one of these.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNP_Trade_Union_Group

    When we get Independence it will be largely because, with the STUC being neutral but very supportive of workers in Scotland – that’s WORKERS which include TEACHERS – many previous and existing Labour supporters now support a YES vote – and there’s still round about 60% of Labour voters to persuade to YES.

    Forget ye not the purpose of blogs like this – to help persuade soft NOes and the undecided to vote YES. Hatred of a party or a trades unionist is not going to help.

  83. Hamish100 says:

    For the labour supporters of federalism. If we had federalism from the ‘80’s.

    It would still mean Scots would have died in Iraq looking for WMD that didn’t exist. We would have still been involved in Afghanistan.

    Nuclear weapons will still be imposed on Scotland

    Foreign affairs would remain at Westminster etcetera

    the EU or EFTA could not impose on us.

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