Dugcast fae the dughoose – with Graham Campbell

In this week’s dugcast I am joined online by the SNP councillor and Black Lives Matter activist Graham Campbell. You may remember Graham from the documentary he wrote and presented for BBC Scotland about Scotland’s role in the slave trade. We chat about that and about how so much of Scotland’s wealth derived from slavery, how Graham became a supporter of Scottish independence, our chances for another independence referendum and how Graham is confident that we are on the path to independence, and much more besides.

If the embedding doesn’t work for you, the direct link to the podcast is here : https://soundcloud.com/user-291670852/dugcast-17-07-2020-with-graham-campbell


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79 comments on “Dugcast fae the dughoose – with Graham Campbell

  1. Bob Lamont says:

    Thank you both for an eloquent, calm and informed discussion on the issues of Scotland present and past, Graham’s intriguing journey to Yes unusual but equally fascinating.
    A most enjoyable Dugcast.

  2. Dr Jim says:

    While recognising history and learning from it this new desire to blame entire countries for aspects of history that populations of those countries that had no say in or authority over I’m beginning to find more and more unhelpful
    Are we blaming Germany for the Nazis or the peoples of other countries for similar aspects of history, of course we’re not so why blame ordinary people who’s involvement in these things is never saught or required by the rich and powerful when they embark on creating more wealth for themselves, I’m in no way responsible for anybody’s enslavement in the same way as no ordinary German is responsible for Adolf Hitler, or ordinary Italian was for Romes enslavement of people of every colour

    Are we saying that in 1707 for example that Scotland wanted a Union with England so we are to blame for the current problem, are we to apologise to ourselves, again that’s ridiculous because nobody asked us, the ordinary person is never asked, they’re told and they have to find ways to survive, we just got Brexit that we said no to are we blaming every single English person for foisting this policy upon us, no, we’re blaming the shysters who engineered it over us, the rich and powerful of varying colours

    Would a person rather starve than work on a boat transporting slaves to or from anywhere, well the ordinary person has no choice or his family starves, I don’t call that involvement, that in itself is enslavement of the poor by the powerful no matter what colour or wherever they fit into the scale on the food chain, did black slaves not have black overseers, are we blaming them, they did it or they died because the rich and powerful form their pyramids of power over the weak and have been doing for thousands of years irrespective of colour or creed

    The rich have always taken advantage of poverty wherever it exists and indeed the rich deliberately create poverty so workers are easier to manipulate into doing whatever the rich tell them to do, or they die

    Is this a sins of the father holy war, some of your ancestors did a bad thing so an entire nation is stigmatised, it’s a ridiculous argument that any culture race creed or colour on the face of the earth could present and defend against any other, a country is not in any way responsible for the wrongful behaviour of some within it using the advantages of hindsight history and placing biased interpretations on it, if you indulge in that behaviour you might as well change your name to Neil Oliver, history is something to be honest about and taught but to be inveigled into apologising and accepting blame retrospectively is disingenuous by the complainants whatever colour they happen to be

    All lives matter or you become as exceptionalist as the people you blame

    • Jim says:

      Bravo! Dr. Jim, Bravo!

      The most important qualities of a human IMO are justice, compassion, fairness and equality.
      Regardless of race, nationality or religion.

      Well said indeed Sir!

    • Diane Davidson says:

      Very much what I was thinking but could never have expressed so well. Thank you Dr Jim

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Strewth, that clearly hit a nerve Jim, I doubt any would argue your point “The rich have always taken advantage of poverty wherever it exists and indeed the rich deliberately create poverty so workers are easier to manipulate into doing whatever the rich tell them to do, or they die”, no more obvious than over the last decade, shortly to visit a banker near you by Sunak’s knee-jerking to save his banking buddies.

      My own perception of the points made here and elsewhere was not a call for atonement by nationals for sins of their fathers’ fathers’ etc regarding slavery, but recognition history should be restored from the version posthumously re-written to avoid awkward embarrassments, as previously perpetuated through centuries of “education”.
      Consider what we were both taught of Scotland’s history, the Highland Clearances were barely a footnote with no mention of communities decimated and dispersed, that is not British history because they prefer Wellington the diversion re-written as the saviour of England/Britain, Drake not the drunken fool but the dismissive hero.
      Meanwhile, Johnson and Cummings’s spin machine try to rewrite history in real time, last to leave the building turn off the dark.
      As a PS, I note Bristol Council removed the superb statue erected in place of Colston within 24 hours, I would guess the furore to re-install it will cause even uproar,…

    • marconatrix says:

      “… no ordinary German is responsible for Adolf Hitler …”
      But was it not perfectly ‘ordinary’ Germans, their attitudes and ideas shaped by German culture, who brought Hitler and the Nazis to power? Or at least stood by until it was too late? Has German culture really changed so much? Does Germany even have a right to exist as a nation? Why wasn’t the nation simply disbanded after causing and losing two world wars? Sorry, must be my age and upbringing, but it’s something I’ve never been able to understand, given how the major powers have quite happily destroyed so many perfectly innocent nations, races and cultures.

      • Dr Jim says:

        Egypt apologises for making a national tourist industry from slavery, I don’t reckon we’re ever going to hear that from anybody who takes their holidays to see the tombs of the Pharohs who enslaved how many over how long

        Should Egypt be disbanded, should any country or people be made responsible for the actions of those they cannot prevent or didn’t know of or was even acceptable culture due to difference in education

        A father is not made responsible as guarantor for the crimes of his sons or the other way round, power is weilded by the powerful who choose to monumentalise themselves for posterity on the backs of the impoverished, as Empires are made by the Empiricalists but built by the sweat of the poor hungry and afraid as the Germans were of the rise of something they could do nothing about as we in Scotland can do nothing about decisions taken in England that form our future, except to hope that political solutions and the rest of the world lending a hand may resolve it

        Will Scotland be asked to apologise for Margaret Thatcher or Boris Johnson when history looks like we accepted these people because we were a part of a Union thereby Scotland must have condoned them, do we apologise for the slaughter of millions around the world by the British Empire because Scotlands ordinary people wanted that, ordinary people never get a choice

        There are fewer statues glorifying nice people than nasty people, the nice people statues are in historical terms a pretty new idea

        • J Galt says:

          I’m afraid the Hollywood version of ancient Egypt with whipped slaves dragging the stones up the ramps to build the pyramids is probably not entirely accurate (the accepted version these days is Aliens using levitation) so you may visit them with a clear conscience.

          • weegingerdug says:

            I thought it was Bigfoot Nazi Alien Ghosthunter Serial Killers searching for the treasure of Oak Island. I’m sure I saw it on the Discovery Channel.

            • Dr Jim says:

              Eric Von Daninken built the pyramids didn’t he, poor man got the shaft end of everything because he *assisted* his own research, which was pretty good up until he made that mistake, shame, still a good read though

          • Alex Clark says:

            (the accepted version these days is Aliens using levitation)

            HAHAHAHA sheer brilliance.

            Readers and supporters of Independence, if you were unaware that opponents of Independence, the supporters of Johnson and Trump, deniers of climate change and anti-vaxxers were unhinged. You now have evidence.

            Yes, it was aliens that came here and built the pyramids. It’s “the accepted version” don’t yeh know? LOL

            • weegingerdug says:

              Eh … I think that his comment about aliens was redolent with sarcasm.

              Although this being the internet you can never really tell.

              • J Galt says:

                Sorry I couldn’t resist.

                Oscar wouldn’t approve, “lowest form of wit” and all that.

                Mind you he also said “I can resist everything except temptation”.

                • Alex Clark says:

                  There was no wit whatsoever there, not even a hint of wit, I doubt you do wit.

                  • J Galt says:

                    Fair enough, sorry to have rattled your cage.

                  • Mbiyd says:

                    When you get involved in some discussion the only comment I have is : wit nonsense is he talking now.

                    Anyway: looking forward to Peter and Nicola squirming out of the hole they dug for ^themself. Bated breath and all that… time to put the flags back up.

                  • grizebard says:

                    Lighten up there AC, I found it moderately amusing. I guess we should have a special colour for sarcasm.

                    And the Mybloyds should appear in green ink, with a big health warning attached like Twitter…

      • J Galt says:

        And why do you think Germany “caused” the First World War?

        I think you’ll find the culprits were a bit closer to home.

        Two Scotsmen have written a superb book on the subject “Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War” by Gerry Docherty and James MacGregor.

        An antidote to the self serving cartoon version you’ve been fed since school.

        • Alex Clark says:

          Why did you put “caused” in quotes?

          Dr Jim never used that word in any of his two posts and neither did he even mention the First World War. So he definitely did not imply that “Germany “caused” the First World War?”
          I think you’ve lost a screw somewhere, surely you’re not really President Trump? Just asking.

        • marconatrix says:

          Indeed, but it’s the ‘cartoon version’ that lies somewhere in the subconscious and affects feelings, even when I know better.
          I often wonder if people of a certain age have had doubts about the EU because they see a rich fat united Germany at its centre, like some great spider at the centre of a web of power, while the UK is relegated to peripheral position. Could that be a potent undercurrent motivating many Brexiteers?

          • J Galt says:

            Yes you may be right, people do believe the most extraordinary things.

            Mind you Germany’s not as rich and fat as it used to be!

        • Bob Lamont says:

          To your first query, clearly levitation since hydrogen had not yet been invented? Am I close ??
          “An antidote to the self serving cartoon version you’ve been fed since school”, priceless, what are you selling this weed at? Asking for a friend…

      • Jim says:

        Marconatrix.

        It’s not quite as simple as that.

        Following the end of the 1st World War the ‘Reparations’ imposed on Germany to pay for it “As the losers” by the western democracy’s was brutal to say the least.
        226 Billion Marks.
        This bankrupted the German Economy and as a result inflation went through the roof. Ordinary German citizens with 100,000 Marks in life savings couldn’t afford to buy a loaf of bread.

        Adolf Hitler tapped into this misery and deliberate putting down of Germany, like some earlier version of Farage.

        But please don’t think I’m defending the Nazi’s.
        Who could, considering the inhumanity to mankind that they perpetuated.

        But I don’t believe that every German citizen was a Nazi, they were voting someone in who they believed could stop their misery. The atrocities came much later on once they were in power.
        There is a good description of what happened here.

        https://www.historyonthenet.com/authentichistory/1930-1939/4-roadtowar/1-germany

        There’s a very interesting take on the USA’s involvement in all of this.

        • J Galt says:

          Indeed there is every reason to believe that if the War had been averted entirely or had ended with a saved faces all round peace in 1915 on the basis of Status Quo Ante Bellum then Europe could have been spared the horrors of Bolshevism and later National Socialism.

        • Cubby says:

          I think it should be remembered that Hitler was not voted for by a majority of the German people far from it. He manouvered himself in to power and then abolished any institutions/people that could stop him becoming a dictator.

    • Cubby says:

      Dr Jim, an interesting post. There is clear historical evidence that the people of Scotland did not want the Union in 1707. 80 petitions by the people were sent to the parliament demanding union be rejected against one petition for the union. The people of course were ignored by the parliament. There was a parliament in Scotland in 1707 but there was no democracy.

      Fast forward 313 years and there is a parliament in Scotland but still no democracy. Stephen Flynn, SNP MP for Aberdeen South talked about the democratic deficit in his excellent speech during Wednesdays debate in the H of Commons. I see the democratic deficit as a gaping big hole that really means there is no democracy in Scotland. England created the union so that England could control the other wee diddy nations and gave them the fig leaf of a few votes in Westminster to create the facade of a democracy.

      Only an independent Scottish parliament will finally bring democracy to Scotland for the first time.

    • Jk scobie says:

      And that is that, in a nut shell. Brilliant.

  3. Ken2 says:

    Slave trade stopped 1861

    Catholic representation 1861

    Universal Suffrage 1928

  4. Ken2 says:

    Black people have been discriminated against. The US 1960 Civil Rights movement.

    Migrants discriminated against.

    No equality in civil rights, residential or employment rights

  5. […] Wee Ginger Dug Dugcast fae the dughoose – with Graham Campbell In this week’s dugcast I am joined online by the SNP councillor and Black Lives […]

  6. Cubby says:

    The Tory Britnats are never mean when it comes to providing examples of their brass neck.

    Tory after Tory standing up during Wednesdays debate in the H of Commons and prattling on about the divisive separatists whilst at the same time boasting about separating from the EU and causing division across the whole of the UK never mind between Scotland and England. Of course Tory separation is ok but SNP no chance. Self awareness has never been a Tory strongpoint.

  7. Arthur Thomson says:

    A really good Dugcast Paul. Graham is very articulate and persuasive. I would like to know much more of his perspective. There were parts of his comments that rang alarm bells because I have no more affinity with the ideology of the left than the ideology of the right but I would be very interested to know more of what he is thinking.

    I am, like every other civilised person, absolutely appalled by the enslavement of people. The enslavement of Africans during what we refer to as “the slave trade” was horrific. We need to learn fully about it and we need to work out how we should use that knowledge appropriately. I have strong feelings on this subject and equally strong feelings about the horrors caused by totalitarianism – whatever junk ideology has been used to supposedly justify it.

    Scotland could benefit hugely from embarking on a national conversation about its values. In the short term I think the response to the pandemic could have started that conversation already. It is going to be very difficult to sustain and develop that when high levels of unemployment are being used to set one person against another. In that context it is also going to be very difficult for “black lives matter” to be heard.

    But if anyone in Scotland can make something worthwhile out of all these calamities coming together, it is Nicola Sturgeon and her team.

  8. Alex Clark says:

    I had never heard of SNP councilor Graham Campbell until I listened to the dugcast today, I therefore never knew he was a black Rastafarian from England who is now living in Glasgow. A bit of a surprise I must admit but a pleasant one given that he has made Scotland his home, joined the SNP and cared enough to get himself involved with politics and Independence for Scotland 🙂

    I thought listening, that his comparison between 2011 and 2021 about lists votes was not a fair comparison, obviously the fewer constituency seats you win then the more likely that you can win list seats. The SNP are expected to win many more constituency seats in 2021 than the 53 that they won in 2011 making it far harder to win list seats.

    However in saying that it’s also obvious that the list seats can be seen as insurance against doing less well than expected in the constituencies and then it is still possible to win a majority.

    As far as Independence goes, my view is that the number of seats in the Scottish Parliament held by Independent supporting parties is important to ensure that they have a majority of seats in that parliament, otherwise they could never pass the legislation necessary for a second referendum.

    Other than that though, it is not that relevant, you could have every seat in the parliament held by Independence parties but it still wouldn’t guarantee a second referendum. For that, we are going to need something other than more MSP’s that support Independence.

    That’s what we’re all waiting to find out, the most important thing of all though is not having a date for a second referendum. It’s winning it is all that matters.

  9. Cubby says:

    Greens no more.

    Ross Greer and his Green Party will not be getting my vote in 2021. I helped elect him in 2016 on the West of Scotland Regional List and he is now calling me a cheat for doing so.

    I will now be looking for another party to vote for on the regional list and that may well be the SNP even if it is a wasted vote.

    • Dr Jim says:

      No vote is wasted even if a seat isn’t won, post every election all the votes are counted by every party to ascertain support for each individual party, that’s how people like Sir John Curtice stay in a job to gauge the swings to and from each party and how each party plans it’s forward policy and direction, and in doing so the UK government also is made aware of the position

      It matters not that the system was created to prevent the SNP winning every list seat as long as they win the most votes because that’s what Prof Curtice will point to as the most important swing when it’s over and the direction of travel of the people of Scotland when he points to his colourful graph on the Telly with the Blue Red and Peugh colours then points to the SNP Yellow

      Since 2014 every election in Scotland is considered a referendum on Independence by the UK government otherwise the three Unionist parties in Scotland wouldn’t be joining together again as the single no more referendums party

      Even now Ruth Davidson has put herself forward to lead the campaign against Independence with George Galloway begging Boris Johnson to be a part of it, these people are not doing this because they don’t believe it’s coming, why has Adam Tomkins the Tory constitutional spokesgit just announced his resignation intending to stand down before the Holyrood election, when rabid Tories like Tomkins give up you really know the gemme’s a bogey

      • Cubby says:

        Dr Jim I wish every election in the past was actually a referendum. So why do not actually do it for real in 2021. I would 100% vote SNP on both the constituency and the regional list to maximise the vote for independence.

        So Dr Jim – a possible tricky question for you – or perhaps not, you may find it easy. If people like me had not voted for Greens and voted SNP instead in 2016 and the SNP vote share on the list increased but independence supporting MSPs were no longer in the majority in the parliament what end result benefits independence more? Hope that question is clear.

        What is it with Truthless Davidson – supposed to be spending more time with her family is she not – she can’t even spend time doing her MSP surgeries.

  10. Cubby says:

    I think the man from that other site who sends some posters on this site into a frothing at the mouth frenzy at the mention of his name must have been reading my posts on WGD about my regional list and Ross Greer or it could be a coincidence or I could be secretly working in tandem with him ( that last option is for the conspiracy theorists). Apologises if I have upset anyone.

  11. Mbiyd says:

    What the movement needs now is a Guiseppe Mazzini.

    • Cubby says:

      The SNP and bloggers fighting each other – and they used to complain about us BTL posters.

      • Hamish100 says:

        It seems Cubby the only vote that is not wasted on the other side is for Wings. Yet there is no wings party from Bath as yet.
        I have no intention of voting for a Liberal Democrat who campaigns against the snp. My vote will not be wasted.

        • Cubby says:

          Quite right too. I would expect nothing less from you Hamish 100. I’ve always wondered Hamish is the 100 your age or does it mean something like 100% SNP or is it just to distinguish you from other Hamishes.

          • Hamish100 says:

            Not reached 100 yet though feel it. Hamish1, 10, etc used up so just put my first home address number. A top tenement flat but with its own internal WC. Magic. Still have from the 80’s models of tenement flats. Brock Stop making them unfortunately. Puir glesga!

  12. Chicmac says:

    Joseph Knight was the first black slave freed by a judicial decision and this was in Scotland. following an appeal to Sheriff Swinton in Perth he won his case and freedom in the Court of Session in 1777.

    • Legerwood says:

      There was the Somerset case in England in 1772 which was similar in intent and outcome to the later Knight case in Scotland.

      Interesting too that one of Knight’s counsel acting on his behalf in the Court of Session was Henry Dundas later Viscount Melville.

      • Chicmac says:

        Lord Mansfield, whose stately abode was Scone palace which is adjoined to my home town of Perth, was undoubtedly a great Scottish reformer of the English legal system. I have seen the portrait of Dido, his black niece who lived with the family at Scone palace and was cared for and educated there.

        He abhorred slavery, but in the case you cited, he did not, indeed was unable, to rule against slavery per se and had to acknowledge that that was the law of the land. Instead he ruled against the deportation of Somerset to Jamaica and against his incarceration. While that had similarities in outcome, as you say, and was indeed regarded as a great success by the abolitionists, it was not judgement which freed Somerset from slavery under the law.

        • Chicmac says:

          Having, as usual, gone to check my facts after posting, I discovered that Dido was in fact raised in Lord Mansfield’s English home.

          In mitigation my error stems from a tour of Scone palace where her portrait resides. While the tour guide talked about Dido’s relationship to Lord Mansfield and how she was treated as one of the family I do not recall her making the point that this was in his English home and not the palace we were standing in.

  13. Chicmac says:

    P,S. 30 years before the abolition of slavery act in the UK.

  14. Ken2 says:

    Another one gone, another one down, another one hits the dust.

    Johnston will be gone next. The Brexit Tory mess and shambles. Unfolding. Never trust a Tory, especially in Scotland. The lies coming back to bite. Liars always get found out.

    Who wants the poison chalice? Certainly not Labour. Paid Labour officials were campaigning to lose the last GE. The former party Secretary. ‘Suits you Sir. Unelected House of Lords stuffed full of them. Trying to hide derogatory reports.

    The illegal unionist voting system imposed on Scotland. First preference SNP votes go in the bin to let 3rd unionists in. Quota.

    The Polling industry used illegally to corrupt elections. The electoral rules broken with impunity. Leslie Evans PR muck up. £170,000 (2016). Never have so many been promoted above their capabilities. The lies and deceit. The Vow reneged upon.

    Scotland would be Independent now. The Westminster duplicity.

    Support for SNP/Independence increasing. With every Westminster unionist blunders to muck up the world economy.

  15. Ken2 says:

    WW1. 1914 -1918. Millions killed. European Royals. The divine right to rule. Victoria’s children/grandchildren. Cousins married cousins. Royal imperialist rivalry.

    Russia Tsar Nicholas invaded Germany. Willheim. Cousins. The monarchy rivalries.

    Russia revolution 1917. People in Russia were starving. Serf land system. There was a populist movement for Democracy. More power to the people The Duma. Resisted by the Tsar. Let to unrest and revolts The people fired upon and killed by the army forces.

    Unrest led to the Russian Revolution. The sailors mutinied. That was the start. Russian civil war. Emerging left dominance. The Communist Manifesto. Karl Marx.

    WW1 finished up the monarchy in Russia and Germany. The British lingered on. They made concessions to liberalisation. To Parliament. Released powers of democracy. More democratic rights. Fabian society. The working class could vote. No rateable property qualification by 1928. Mass movement for Democracy. One person, one vote.

    The catastrophe of WW1 caused by the European Royals. The ‘divine right to rule’. Universal Suffrage 1928 in Britain.

    Russia (dictator) and Germany became Federations of States. Eventually Emancipation, Russia saved the West WW2. 26Million Russians died. Mass destruction of the economy. Devastation. Stalin until 1953. 1989 Berlin Wall Fell. USSR federal States became self governing. Self determination helped by the EU. German reunification.

    The Russian winter. Extreme weather conditions. Once forces get in they cannot get out, easily. Bad weather conditions. Defeated Napoleon. Vast flat terrain. The Russian Steppes. Sweep in then forces cannot get out. Stuck. Impossible conditions. Frozen solid.

    WW2 Destroyed the European/world economy. The reason the EU was formed to stop starvation and war in Europe. A successful partnership. Trade and shared Defence costs. Worth the contribution for the benefits back.

    The Tories have spent more on Brexit already than all the total EU contributions. It has just started. More catastrophe in store.

  16. Golfnut says:

    Yorkshire bylines take on the Internal market white paper

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/215556435841901/permalink/688246038572936/

  17. Ken2 says:

    The Tories complaining about the manipulation of the voting system. They invented it. The total lack of self awareness is astounding. They will get voted out.

    They manipulated an EU Referendum. Then manipulated the electoral system. Cheated lied and broke every electoral rule in the book. To manipulate the system. Beyond contempt.

    The hypocrisy is beyond belief. Getting away with it. Killing people. Vote Tory to die younger. Unelected advisors. Ruining people’s lives. With impunity. Breaking every rule in the book and every Law of the land. Being taken to Court to uphold people’s rights. Deporting people without authority. Breaking the rule of Law with total contempt.

  18. Golfnut says:

    GERS for the 19th Century. It’s a good five minute read, a wee bit tongue in cheek ‘re the graciousness of the Queen.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/215556435841901/permalink/688126958584844/

    • Cubby says:

      Golfnut, I genuinely asked you in the last article for clarification on a post you made. Any chance of you assisting my understanding of what you meant.

      You mention GERS – do you know if the Scotgov review of GERS that Derek McKay was supposed to be doing before he departed is still taking place.

      • Golfnut says:

        Sorry Cubby, I’m in the middle of ‘ viewings ‘ downsizing as they say. So missing a lot. Ill go back and have a look.

        I don’t know if Kate Forbes has continued the GERS calculation from a Scotland only perspective, she seems a bit busy, but I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

        • Cubby says:

          Best of luck with the sale. It’s good that the courses are open again. I’m hoping to go up for my regular golf hol to Fife soon.

          My initial question was your post saying it was obvious what the FM said in her Jan 2020 speech.

          The GERS propaganda has always been one of my pet hates. It is long overdue that it is kicked in to the bin of Britnat history. This should be a priority in front of things like this Hate crime bill. Yes I know it is different gov depts but how many years do we have to put with this mince about £12billion deficits.

          • Golfnut says:

            Hi, thanks Cubby. I responded to your question on the last thread, sorry I missed it.
            Good luck with the Golf.

  19. malkymcblain says:

    This may be of interest…See the latest in the spectator…..seems that they’re a wee bit feart and know they can’t ignore an SNP landslide at Holyrood next year.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-union-is-in-graver-danger-than-ever

    • Golfnut says:

      Hells teeth, what planet are these nutters on.

      • Dr Jim says:

        Every time the British Nationalist parties write articles complaining about the SNP doing well they always end up coming to the same conclusion, and it’s a question they keep asking themselves, *how can we silence the SNP* it’s never how can we work with Scotland to repair what we did to it, it’s never how can we repair the damage, it’s never maybe they’re right

        There’s never a thought or consideration of Scotland in their attitude, it’s always about them and how can they stop us

        It seems if there’s a Scottish accent attached British Nationalists don’t understand words

        • grizebard says:

          Yes, right on target there. An interesting phenomenon that. A cacophony of the deaf. A Union that has fossilised and ceased to adapt and grow, looking increasingly inward and blaming everyone else for its own failures.

          BritNattery got its last chance in 2014 and instead of honestly upholding all the sweet promises we were showered with back then, it gave us EVEL, the reductio ad absurdum of the Smith Commission and the other purblind negativity you mention.

        • Bob Lamont says:

          Spot on Dr Jim, “…it’s never how can we work with Scotland to repair what we did to it, it’s never how can we repair the damage, it’s never maybe they’re right”, it’s a mindset of destroy and vanquish, Union = Subjugation.
          This was no better displayed to the world by the relentless attacks on SG during a public health crisis, despite all including SNP committing to a cessation of political hostilities.
          “Perfidious albion” on the internet was universally greeted by horror and moral condemnation.

    • Cubby says:

      London Tories writing articles on Scotland are always good for a laugh and this article by Forsyth is no exception. He actually ends by saying the only solution to the Scotland problem is federalism. I thought that was Starmers idea. Someone should tell them they should try honouring the VOW first before punting more phoney promises. Britnats what a bunch of diddies.

    • Arthur Thomson says:

      An interesting scribble.

      It’s good to see that the Brits’ philosophy of conceit and contempt is still guiding them towards extinction. They can’t come to terms with the reality that defeat is staring them in their powdered faces. The British Reich is superior even when it’s seen to be an incompetent, immoral shambles that is literally disintegrating before their eyes.

      And these pseudo intellectuals, in their bunker at the Spectator, are sifting the rubble to find a glimmer of twisted hope. They have to believe that they have the destructive super weapon that will save them. Federalism, they say, that would save our sorry arses. Buffalo girl and buffalo Bill. More lies is always good. Deception is good. Threatening is good.

      perhaps most pathetic of all is their clinging, like monkeys to a surrogate mother, to the concept of “a generation” . Like it was a universally understood period of time. A generation is what the Brits decide a generation should be and that is on the understanding that the Brits have the right to redefine it as and when they find it necessary, obviously. Just as the Brits are the final arbiters on all other matters, obviously.

      These Spectator types really don’t do democracy.

      • Cubby says:

        Arthur, shagpile has kindly clarified the generation thing for us. Shagpile claims the unwritten UK constitution states that a generation is 7 years. I don’t agree. Anyway if it was true the Britnats will, as you rightly say, just “redefine it as and when they find it necessary”.

      • grizebard says:

        There’s no reason in it, the “generation” thing was always just a fig leaf for Tory anti-democratic gas-lighting. It worked for them in 2017 but it’s badly shrivelled now. A good election will blow it away. (“Gone with the Wind”, you might say.)

        I really hope that Buffalo Gal leads the opposition to indy, come the showdown. She will be cruelly exposed as the empty balloon she always was. Gorgeous George as sidekick? That truly would be history repeated as farce!

  20. Julia Gibb says:

    Excellent podcast….however

    I find the blanket blame approach disturbing. Issues such as slavery, the clearance, land grabs, the deaths of the native in many countries is very complex.
    The root cause in all these events was greed. The greed of a handful of people who employed thugs to exercise their case.
    An Empire which gave the nod to the East India company does not mean WE agreed. A Manchester cotton worker was trying to feed his family not exploit India. A poor Irish immigrant joining the British Army in the Wars of the Empire was driven by hunger.
    This general collective blame approach is taking the light away from the very, very small group who exploited all people.

    A Government sets the standard on what is acceptable. They set the stands of behaviour.

    Spain in South America. Britain, France, Belgium. Netherlands in Africa, Middle East and Far East.

    Like everything else – follow the money.

    In a military atrocity investigation you don’t focus on who pulled the trigger. You concentrate on who gave the order.

    The Empire did not make mill workers wealthy. It did not feed their children. It did not give them the vote…it did not ask them their opinion.

    • Cubby says:

      I agree. Greed was a key factor and you touch on another key factor in your last sentence. “It did not give them the vote.” We have never had democracy in Scotland just differing shades of faux democracy.

      Until we have an independent parliament that gives democratic power to the people of Scotland we will never have complete control of our lives.

  21. Margaret McAuslan says:

    As I’ve said before Paul, I struggle with the extremely low volume on your podcasts, your voice more so than your guests. Tried listening via soundcloud, but just as hard. And I don’t have hearing problems.

  22. James Cheyne says:

    This is an absolutely stupid conversation to be having at this point in time in Scotland,
    The ordinary Scottish person has been shipped to colonies as slaves, burnt out of their homes in the past, put as cannon fodder first in British battles to the benefit of the elite, and so on for centuries
    There are, white, black and all other skin colours you can think of , women and children being sold as sex slaves right at this moment in time that you have done your podcast, women still do not get payed equal to men, making them slaves also,
    No one kind, of human being deserves to be uplifted and highlighted more than any other for special laws or treatment,
    We are ordinary people with no say with regards to what the rich and elite do to us wether we are black or white,
    Are we honestly going to hold decisive ‘Look Squirrel; conversations like these while the Barnett formula may be taken from Scotland, while the same rich and elite try to make Scotland a region instead of a country.
    ARE we going to allow Scotland to become permanently enslaved to Westminster for centuries to come, to be treated in the manner in which you speak.
    If you object to slavery, then you better decide that these conversations run deep and are about to become much closer to home for the Scottish people,
    I am not against them being treated equally, far from it, but I find it strange that we are not speaking first of our own enslavement and what similar treatment we are about to become victim of.
    You cannot look after others, if you are unable to look after yourself first,

    • Chicmac says:

      When you hear about thousands of workers slaving away in workshops in Leicester for £3 an hour you wonder whether any meaningful progress has been made at all.

      We live in a greedocracy, time to get out.

  23. James Cheyne says:

    Exactly my point, chicmac, we cannot make changes to how the world is run or behaves, if this is not in our power to do so,
    We say slavery in all its forms is bad, while the very same rich people who run Britain still allow slavery to happen today.
    It is not going to change unless we are in a position to change it, and at the moment it looks like ok uk are trying to take away the Scottish parliament, our ability to pass legislation, our ability to ensure that this no longer happens at least in Scotland,
    That’s why I thought the dog podcast was a cart before the horse conversation,
    If we keep our eye on the ball to gain independence for our country, we can then discuss righting wrongs with backing from our parliament and laws. In which we all could hold these conversations and people to account and become more equal society.
    Without this we too will become modern day slaves here in Scotland, working until we drop of old age, benifits for the aged or infirm taking away, without pensions, without medical help, because the NHS was sold, without workers or human rights, without decent housing without our fishing, farming and whisky, without having the right to vote, need I go on,
    This is being done now in Britain,
    If you take people’s rights away no matter what colour of skin, then you and I along with every one else here including Paul, come under the heading, SLAVE.
    We must keep our eyes on the one subject that has an effect on all of us, an independent Scotland, so we have the ability to to make changes for the better.

  24. Probably unnoticed, I have been keeping my own counsel over the past week or so.
    Life according to the Light of My Life goes on outside the Duggers’ Bubble.

    Even now I type with more than one wary eye on the dining room door, more than one ear straining to detect the ballerina soft footfall of my Everlovin’ on the stairs.

    However, like most anoraks, I am suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms, and can often be found sitting on the floor of the downstairs cupboard sucking my knees, in urgent need of a ‘rail at the moon’ fix.

    No Westminster Government will ‘allow’ a second Independence Referendum. Her Royal Madge has ‘purred’, so there’s an end to it.

    I am beyond hoping; I’m all for doing.

    Sturgeon is getting pelters from the usual fringe suspects, so there is no need for further comment from me.

    I’m fed up tub thumping, debating the same merry go round options strategies, and solutions.

    In this humble contributor’s opinion there are immutable givens.

    No Westminster administration will ever grant a second referendum on Self Government . And that’s not just the, frankly evil, Blue Tory Regime.

    Starmer’s New New Labour would be equally as intransigent.

    And Willie Rennie’s Lib Dems are just a pathetic joke.

    So enough of all this futile argument that the English Parliament will crumble under the pressure of a Pro Independence landslide next May.

    We are their vanquished colony.

    Mark Francois would no sooner ask his sirloin steak’s permission to eat it than he would ‘allow’ us Sweaties to vote to leave his Union.

    So can we put Plan A to bed once and for all?

    The English Parliament is rushing through the UK Internal Market Bill right now.

    They are about to shut down Holyrood.

    All those farmers, all those fishermen, who voted Tory and Brexit are about to get royally screwed, by Alister Jack and Michael Gove, Scots born, lest anyone accuse this Dugger of being ‘anti English’.

    I often stray from hyperbole into bone headed exaggeration, I know, but not when I described No Deal Brexit imposed on Scotland, as wrapping Scotland in barbed wire, policed by ‘England’s’ Homeland Security as the borders of 27 countries are slammed shut in our faces and Scotland is flooded with GM vegetables, Kentucky ‘Scotch’ , US chickens bleached clean, and Steroid Texas Aberdeen Angus Beef.
    From 1st January 2021 the sluice gates will open and England will be de facto the 51st State.

    It is laudable that our FM is leading the fight against Covid 19, and we seem to be coming out of the plague.

    Her commitment energy and daily press briefings have been nothing less than remarkable.

    The SNP are riding high in the polls as is Sturgeon herself.

    So far, so what?

    We cannot stand by and allow the English Parliament to frog march us over the Brexit Cliff, and ‘take back control’ of Scotland, their wayward colony.

    Action is required in the last quarter of 2020.

    Not words; action.

    To this end, the Referendum Campaign starts in the second half of September, with all guns blazing.

    To go gently into the Tory Brexit No Deal Dark Night is not an option.

    Rise, Scotland.

  25. Cubby says:

    Good post Jack.

    The key point for me from your post is that the Tories are not sitting back and saying we need to focus 100% on covid and postpone Brexit. Brexit is their priority – I think that is wrong but that is the reality. We have been formally taken out of the EU but the real punch in the guts is coming in January, potentially in the middle of an upsurge in Covid. Madness on stilts.

    Does Scotland really need to go through another Thatcher demolition decade. Unlike then in the 80’s we now have our own Parliament – time for them to stand up for Scotland.

  26. Arthur Thomson says:

    I noticed your absence Jack and I am glad you are back. Like you I have limited opportunities to comment but I will respond to your comment asap, probably in the context of Paul’s most recent post.

    • Huts to paint, slabs to lay, old war movies to empty the head, guys.

      There is no way that events will allow the English Government to tip toe through the next 5 1/2 months unscathed.

      But it’s time to awaken the sleeping giant that is the YES Movement.

      Act as though we are independent now, and kick start Indyref 2 as the leaves fall late September.

      Forsyth’s arrogant Imperial Master piece says it all.

      They discuss us as though we are not in the room, in a ‘does he take sugar’ way, the colonial master debating how to quell the local peasants.

      It’s as stark as that.

      It is time to pinpoint a date in the near future, and declare ‘that far and no further’.

      Independence by the Autumn of ’21 following a 9 month campaign?

      Why not?

      We just ignore the Brit Nat voices off, wailing that we cannae dae that ‘cos Westminster forbids it.

      We just do it.

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