Let’s get going Scotland

Ec1TgVAX0A82bIG
The British Government has launched a new slogan to prepare for Brexit : Let’s Get Going. Who’d have thought that the slime bag in chief for the YooKay Michael Gove would have come up with a slogan so ideally suited to Scottish independence. Let’s get going Scotland, let’s get going from this dysfunctional incoherent mess of a Conservative Government. Let’s get going Scotland, let’s get going from this British state that has ignored and sidelined Scotland at every step along the way of its Brexit obsession. Let’s get going Scotland, let’s get going from a British state that can’t succeed even at the most basic duty of a government, to keep its citizens safe during an epidemic. Let’s get going Scotland, let’s get going to a better country where the views of the Scottish people actually count for something.

The ironies of a let’s get going campaign for Brexit abound, because Brexit means the opposite of going. Brexit means that UK citizens will be stuck in the slow lane, stripped of the freedom of movement and settlement throughout Europe that we enjoyed until so very recently. It means that British citizens will now need travel insurance to cover their health needs when they go to the EU. A couple in their 70s will now have to spend around £165 in order to replicate what they previously enjoyed for free thanks to the European health card scheme. It means that British citizens no longer enjoy the legal right of entry to other European countries, we’ll now be subject to whatever checks or visa measures that the EU deems fit. It means that you will no longer be able to take your pet on holiday with you unless you go through additional vetinary checks as the pet passport scheme will no longer operate. And make sure that you can afford to pay your mobile phone bill because now you’ll be subjected to increased charges for data roaming. A British passport is now a second class passport that gives British citizens fewer rights and weaker rights than it did before. More expense. Longer queues. Fewer rights. And they want us to think that this means that we’re getting going. We’re getting gone over.

For the British economy what the Conservatives have planned is the opposite of getting going. It means border checks, paperwork, customs duties and import taxes. It means regulatory borders and queues of lorries. Let’s get going to sit in a long line of lorries along a motorway in Kent that’s been turned into a car park is not a snappy slogan, but it’s a lot more accurate than the one that the British Government has unveiled.

It’s a long time ago that the UK passed through the mirror into a world where words from the British Government mean the opposite of what’s actually happening. Part time Prime Minister told us that the UK’s response to the coronavirus epidemic was world beating, but the only way it’s world beating is by being having one of the highest death tolls and worst affected economies. Now we’re exhorted to let’s get going for Brexit when what the slogan really heralds is a warning of all the ways in which the UK, its economy, and its citizens will be hampered in getting going because of Brexit. It’s essentially a listing of all the downsides of Brexit with nary a mention of all those Brexit benefits that the likes of Michael Gove once promised us. But then Michael Gove is one of those people who think that it’s perfectly acceptable to lie through your teeth as long as you remember to say please and thank you.

Due to the swivel eyed ideological fixation of the Conservatives on a “pure Brexit”, the UK appears set to exit the transitional period at the end of this year without a deal. According to the UK Government’s own assessment from HMRC, the static total ongoing administrative burden on UK-EU trade due to a no deal Brexit is £15 bn a year. That works out at £290 million a week. Additionally the UK loses the economic benefits of membership of the single market and customs union, which are estimated at £1.6 billion a week. You probably missed the bus that these figures were painted on the side of. (Source here)

The UK is not getting going to a new start, it’s regressing to the 1970s with mass unemployment, economic and social crises, and no right to go and live and work in another European country. Some British nationalists tell us that if we don’t like Brexit and what the Conservatives are doing then we should go and live in some other country. Well that would be nice except the Conservatives have stripped us of the right to do so. Let’s get going backwards. Let’s get going but don’t forget your health insurance, visa application, and make sure that you’ve four months left on your passport otherwise you might be denied admission at the border of the country you hoped to visit.

The UK Government tells us that the UK will start a new relationship with the EU after the end of December. Well doesn’t that all sound terribly cosy. But what it really means is that the new relationship will entail the UK turning its back on Europe, crossing its arms and sitting in a huff until it can lower standards sufficiently in order to get some sort of a deal with the USA that will flood the UK with low quality food. Which the Tories will hail as a great victory. The new relationship will involve stripping the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish Parliaments of devolved powers without any consultation. Scotland decided that it wanted a devolved parliament with the powers that it possesses after a referendum, the same Tories who are always banging on about the importance of respecting the results of referendums propose to take powers away from the Scottish Parliament without asking the Scottish people. Of course they’re not going to ask the Scottish people, because they already know what answer they’d get. They’d be told to get going in two syllables which begin and end with F.

Let’s get going Scotland. Let’s get going to a more confident and better Scotland where we have a government which is answerable to the people of Scotland. Let’s get going Scotland. Let’s get going to a Scotland where we make the decisions that are in the best interests of Scotland. Let’s get going Scotland, to independence.

(Many thanks to whoever it was who designed the graphic which I have used for this piece. It has been circulating on social media.  Someone credited it to Chris Cairns, but I  have since found out that it’s not his work.)


You can help to support this blog with a Paypal donation. Please log into Paypal.com and send a payment to the email address weegingerbook@yahoo.com. Or alternatively click the donate button. If you don’t have a Paypal account, just select “donate with card” after clicking the button.
Donate Button

If you have trouble using the button, or you prefer not to use Paypal, you can donate or purchase a t-shirt or map by making a payment directly into my bank account, or by sending a cheque or postal order. If you’d like to donate by one of these methods, please email me at weegingerbook@yahoo.com and I will send the necessary information.

Please also use this email address if you would like the dug and me to come along to your local group for a talk.

GINGER2croppedGaelic maps of Scotland are available for £15 each, plus £7 P&P within the UK for up to three maps. T-shirts are £12 each, and are available in small, medium, large, XL and XXL sizes. P&P is £5 for up to three t-shirts. My books, the Collected Yaps Vols 1 to 4 are available for £11 each. P&P is £4 for up to two books. Payment can be made via Paypal.


newbook My new book has just been published by Vagabond Voices. Containing the best articles from The National from 2016 to date. Weighing in at over 350 pages, this is the biggest and best anthology of Wee Gingerisms yet. This collection of pieces covers the increasingly demented Brexit years, and the continuing presence and strength of Scotland’s independence movement.

You can order the book directly from the publisher. Ordering directly means that postage is free. You can order here –
https://www.vagabondvoices.co.uk/rants/barking-up-the-right-tree-2019

You can also order a book directly from me. The book costs £11.95 and P&P is an additional £3.50, making a total of £15.45. To order just make a Paypal payment to weegingerbook@yahoo.com, or alternatively use the DONATE button below. Please make sure to give me your postal address when ordering. Orders to be sent outwith the UK will incur extra postage costs, please email me for details. If you can’t use Paypal, or prefer an alternative payment method, please email weegingerbook@yahoo.com


113 comments on “Let’s get going Scotland

  1. skintybroko says:

    Love the graphic – Scotland gets a gold star

    As usual a great read, keep up the good work

  2. Alex Clark says:

    You mentioned the HMRC estimate of an “administrative burden on UK-EU trade due to a no deal Brexit is £15 bn a year”.

    I was just reading today something similar just for filling in forms never mind the costs to business of delays at borders and customs checks. Gove this week announced plans costing an estimated £700 million for border posts and customs staff.

    I really think the costs are will be far greater than that. The UK public have been sold a pup by Johnson, Gove and Cummings.

    “Businesses trading between the UK and the EU will have to pay additional costs of up to £13bn next year as a result of post-Brexit border checks.

    Government officials have confirmed that companies will have to fill in approximately 400 extra customs declarations a year after additional checks come into effect in January 2021. “In total, an estimated 215 million will have to be completed by businesses trading with the EU, with an equivalent number filled in by companies in Europe,” The Times reports.

    And HMRC has estimated that each form will cost an average of £32.50 to complete – with that total climbing as high as £56 for imports and £46 for exports in some instances.”

    https://archive.vn/mnDIk

    In 2018 the UK net contribution to the EU budget was £11 billion. Now we are paying more for less.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

  3. Alistair Robertson says:

    I really don;t like that ‘ Let’s get going’ strapline. I’d much prefer ‘Let’s get gone’…

  4. David Agnew says:

    goodbye UK. You were at best a fair weather friend to Scotland at worst an ungrateful little shit

  5. Dr Jim says:

    There are a great many people from another country very keen on telling Scotlands people what’s good for us and what’s not, there are politicians from all the London based *British* parties there are journalists from all London based *British* newspapers and TV media, there are Internet scribblers again based in that other country telling us how politically unhealthy Scotland is now because of the choices of the people who actually live in Scotland, not a single one of these people mention the fact that what Scotland chooses politically is our business, our democratic right to choose

    Opponents of Scotlands right to choose present graphs opinion polls articles all reinterpreted to difinitively prove that Scotlands people are all stupid unless we agree with all the opinions of those who don’t live in Scotland, they’ll fill up the TV the newspapers facebook Twitter online blogs and I’m quite convinced they’d run around their local chip shop and supermarket squealing it if they thought it would make a difference in placing Scotland in a position of not being able to choose our political future

    So why do all these people who don’t live in Scotland have such an interest in whatever the people of Scotland choose to do with the future of our own country, I kinda think it’s obvious, those people benefit from Scotland being stuck exactly where it is, either they gain politically or financially or they’re just plain straight out jealous that we in Scotland have the best chance we’ve ever had in our country’s history to move forward and improve by our own design, but it will be our gesign not their’s, these interested persons from another country must at all costs subvert prevent and destroy our opportunity to do that

    That’s why they keep coming up with never ending convoluted pathetic *reasons* to convince us we’re stupid while avoiding using that word, because they know when they do, and they will, their desperation will have turned to exasperation and their big mouths will be their undoing

    It’s coming and they can’t help themselves

  6. vivianoblivian7 says:

    Countries like India and China didn’t respect the EU, Geographical protection indicator (GPI) system during trade talks because it was the ethical thing to do. They respected (GPI) because the great thunking mailed glove of the EU demanded that they do.
    Mexico didn’t stop importing “Parmesan” cheese made in Wisconsin because it was the “right thing to do”. They respected CGI ’cause the collective weight of the EU, trade negotiators made them an offer they couldn’t refuse.
    When trade talks open between the UK and India and China what will the UK trade delegation say about CGI? “Pleeeease don’t import “Scotch whisky” distilled in Kentucky”. Even if the UK could excert some pressure (and they won’t be in that position), all they’ll care about is access for the City of London to sell their Ponzi schemes and tax avoidance scams.

    • grizebard says:

      Never a truer word said in that last sentence there. Brexit has always been about giving the money launderers of London a free hand to ply their dirty (but lucrative) trade, and the rest of us are just so much collateral damage*. Not least all those poor dupes who believed the lies on the bus and thought Brexit was meant for them.

      Thankfully it is still not totally irretrievable for us, but we had better get a move on about it before too long. Covid has distracted everyone lately, but not it seems the mad bus driver of Downing Street.

      *(As with the virus abdication in England. As someone once said, “Money doesn’t talk, it swears”.)

  7. James Cheyne says:

    Who has the plan for let’s get going then?
    The last route seems to be kicked into the long grass with comments as vague as after covid and after the economy recovers.
    We did wait till we see what happens. We done waiting until the talks start,
    We have patiently done all the things we were asked to wait for.
    and I like many others, all had hope when we had mandates, and higher representation in Westminster.
    Like others in the independence movement we are fed up waiting, some of us have been waiting for 20 or 30 years.
    We need very good organisers, with the will and experience to bring the people together.
    At the moment I feel like the SNP have been knobbled from the inside the party.
    I now think that pacifying us as been the main objective this last few years.

    • Undeadshuan says:

      I’ve been waiting longer than 30 years and I dont see any need to complain when we are in touching distance, whilst in the middle of a global pandemic.

      Frankly I dinnae belive aw these im scunneered when we are nearly there posts are fae real independence supporters.

      If these ‘so called’ self proclaimed independence supporters scupper our chance then in the words of donald tusk, I hope there is a special place reserved for them.

      • Undeadshaun I agree with you now is not the time to lose faith in SNP or NS or Scottish Government as you say we are within touching distance of Scottish independence

      • Eilidh says:

        Totally agree with your last paragraph. I am sick to death of the serial whingers moaning about the Snp plans for Indy particularly those who post on The National online comments. If they don’t like the Snp they are perfectly free to go vote for some wee diddy Indy party. However hell will freeze over before I vote for any party that the blogger that shall not be named is involved in. How anyone can give wholehearted support to a party possibly run by a blogger who hasn’t even lived in Scotland for loads of years is beyond me. Those who claim to be Indy activists sometimes seem to forget they are no more important than a common Snp voter like me who has supported the party for over 40 years. If those self proclaimed Indy supporters sabotage the chance of Indy for us an awful lot of people, like me will neither forgive or forget it.

        • Dr Jim says:

          You said it Eilidh

        • Petra says:

          Spot on Eilidh. My thoughts exactly.

        • graemedbruce says:

          Totally agree. His supporters appear to be posting on the National now, I can’t bring myself to read half the guff posted there these days, particularly the ‘I don’t care how well she is handling covid I want indy and I want it now, deliver or step down’. They must think if they infiltrate all the indy blogs, including this one, we’ll all of a sudden think like them.

  8. […] Wee Ginger Dug Let’s get going Scotland The British Government has launched a new slogan to prepare for Brexit : Let’s Get […]

  9. WGD, I believe the cartoon is by Chris Cairns.

  10. Movy says:

    This is a wonderful graphic.
    Scotland with its gold star to hand ready to add to the EU flag while rUK (if they retain that flag) discarded to the side.
    We should make a lot of use of this…..

  11. Moonlight says:

    I have now reached the point of despair. Bye bye European citizenship and all that entails. Farewell to my rights and obligations. I knew all the ills listed above in 2016, the people of Scotland knew them as well and had the sense to vote remain, convincingly.

    Article 50, which should have been in accordance with the constitution of the leaving state was not. It might have been in accordance with the Westminster version of an unwritten English constitution but it certainly was not in line with the Scottish constitution which from the Declaration of Arbroath declares the people to be sovereign. The Scottish people voted remain, that’s our constitutional position. I have waited vainly for some clever lawyer to point this out to the EU.

    The time has come to stand up and be counted, I look to our leadership to provide us, the people, with a tool which can be used to extract us from this loveless marriage with an abusive partner.

    Is there a cunning plan, Are we to be saved. Asking nicely doesn’t seem to work, we are not dealing with a rational cabal in London, they really don’t care and truly believe that might is right.

    • grizebard says:

      Yes, I share your pain. We were even promised a choice while it still mattered, and the fact that this hasn’t happened (yet) does rankle. The most fundamental and regrettable aspect of all though is that there are still far too many passive drones in Scotland who even now haven’t woken up to the recognition that this is not the best of all possible worlds – far from it – and the only feasible answer is to be willing – eager, even – to take up the responsibility for doing everything – and not just health – for ourselves.

      Still, we are where we are, CV-19, silver lining and all. But take heart – this game is far from over. Opposition to independence is hollowed-out and increasingly on the defensive. Persistence will pay. We just have to ensure that it’s us.

  12. Arthur Thomson says:

    Another good one Paul.

    “Let’s go Scotland” . I like that and I like the visual.

    Where exactly are the Brits going to go? Ah yes, they are going to disappear into a place where the sun doesn’t shine. What an incompetent shower of shysters they are.

    The EU must be shaking in their shoes, or perhaps more likely with mirth, watching the balloons in London bursting their own bubbles. Boris will sort them though. He will have an affable word with his pals in China. Let’s face it, people of oriental origin are a soft touch for an Eton boy. Lolz. What could go wrong in allowing a totalitarian state to be instrumental in setting up your IT systems? We really are finding ourselves right in the middle of a very British farce.

    Anyway, in a lifetime promoting independence it has never really dawned on me until now that deep down where their soul should be, the principal reason the Brits so vehemently oppose independence is – because they are terrified of finding themselves alone! Call me naive but it didn’t really hit home with me that, like the archetypal abusive partner, the nightmare that really haunts them is being alone! I always knew they were lying about everything and that they needed us while we neither needed nor wanted them. I could almost feel sorry for them. Almost.

    I’m sure they will find a way forward when we go. They will become the world’s armoury and they will be a centre for tourism, if they ever get their heads around the concept of public health.

    • wm says:

      Why would England want to lose Scotland, the richest part of the of Britain, with more natural resources than any other part of their union.

      • If Scotland had no natural resources, they would have kicked us out by now.

        • Mbiyd says:

          And landmass for excess population.

          • Petra says:

            I reckon if they could have gotten away with it we would all have been exterminated by now because as you say Mbiyd it’s our land, location of and resources that they want. Not the rebellious, cantankerous Scots. They attempted to clear us out of Scotland, off of our own land, by using one “strategy” after another. They tried to do away with our identity, culture, language and sense of self-worth. They’ve altered our history and airbrushed our heroes and many great achievements into oblivion. They’ve used our homeland as their dumping ground and treated us with utter contempt. And they’ve done their utmost over the last 300 years or so to rob us blind and totally impoverish us and YET when all is said and done we are still standing. They’ve failed to bring us to our knees, far from it, and the day of reckoning is at hand if we all pull together now. After 300 devastating years we will be the generation that brings this Union to an end. How lucky are we?

  13. Bob Lamont says:

    For every post having the intended chuckle at Chris Cairns’ meme circulated in advance of the latest (3rd?) expensive Brexit publicity campaign, and the substance of your article, there’s a nugget moaning “Are we no there yet ? The driver’s useless. We need a new bus”…
    Ever since Yes’s cohesion and unity of purpose in 2014 frightened the hell out of London, they’ve been trying everything to fracture it or wear down support.
    The vast majority of the Yes movement are itching but happy to wait and NOT to play the Unionist game, if you don’t like it, find another bus or walk, but stop moaning at everybody else to charge at a windmill just because…

    Good article Paul, an aspect not covered in your synopsis is the many more stupid complications for those of us living on the EU mainland over this Brexit fiasco. Despite all the accommodating noises, millions have been in a state of limbo for 4 years as authorities try to figure out what to do, and the current Covid pandemic only throws further complications into the mix.
    I left the UK 20 years ago, dismayed by the lunatics taking over the government asylum and the growing impoverishment of the majority of the population to advantage the few. Instead of the fully expected riots, there was the rise of English Nationalism, played like a fiddle by the London establishment, until England elected undoubtedly the greatest charlatans in British history.
    I do not intend to return to that other than in an urn.

    I still expect chaos as the Tories revert to the austerity nonsense and continue support of banker friends to prop up their broken financial system, but with them now seeking to further emasculate the Scottish Government, perhaps SG now have no choice over playing schtum… Now may be a good time to play their hand, London is a busted flush.
    Someday England will waken up to the con, Scotland has been wide awake throughout and is now hungry for some more democracy…
    A Tartan passport would be nice 🙂

  14. Welsh Sion says:

    Just to let you know. We’re revving the car, ready to go, too:

    The break up of the union looks like when not if – we in Wales need to decide where we go from here
    14th July 2020

    https://nation.cymru/opinion/the-break-up-of-the-union-looks-like-when-not-if-we-in-wales-need-to-decide-where-we-go-from-here/

    • Welsh Sion says:

      Happy French National Day, everyone!

      Be ready to storm any Bastille (large or small) near you. 🙂

    • Alex Clark says:

      Good article, I did agree with much but especially this 🙂

      “Wales needs to act on the assumption that Scottish independence is happening because it probably is.”

  15. Alex Clark says:

    I’m full of despair at reading posts from people telling us how full of despair they are and then blaming the leadership of the Scottish government for their despair.

    Haven’t all those that despair noticed that support for Independence is up from 45% in 2014 to 54% today? Some it seems will never be happy, I just wish they would stop moaning and telling us how despaired they are. There has been an increase of despair lately, probably has nothing to do with the polls though lol

    • grizebard says:

      I’m beginning to wonder about that too, particularly as next May begins to impinge upon the consciousness. The proponents of “gaming the list” seem to be waking up to the realisation that without the essential tacit support of the SNP (at least in part caused by their own failure to build bridges), the only way they can make inroads is to switch from “assisting” the SNP to attacking it, heretofore at least only implicitly by sowing gloom-and-doom and casting fanciful aspersions on its leadership. (And never mind what effect this could have on the constituencies.) All this ironically despite the clear rise in public support for the SG during the current crisis. It’s a hard row to hoe. Pretty much the same game plan as the BritNats, funnily enough. There’s nothing quite so reliable as the old divide-and-rule.

      It’s not as though there aren’t genuine reasons for dismay, of course, what with an utterly anathema no-deal Brexit looming and all, while the mogadon-esque interventions of the likes of Wishart really don’t help. We all can do with an occasional quantum of hope.

    • Moonlight says:

      I didn’t go as far as to criticise the SG directly, they may well know something which cannot be shared.

      A nice steady rise in the support for independence. Well done, how many will it take to convince the Westminster government, 70%,80% or what. Why should they, they have all the power, just say no. If the Scots fail to support the Tories, so what, we’ve been there before. Zero Scottish tory MPs, didn’t help last time.

      All I ask for is the right tool with which to force their hand, it may be a legal challenge, a political one is toothless. A referendum without agreement, would it be internationally recognised. There is no court of appeal.

      What are we to do when more powers are stripped away from the SG, even if I won’t buy chlorine treated chicken, you can bet that mothers struggling to feed their kids will, if it’s cheaper, KFC won’t tell you. Sitting on our hands saying how terrible it all is won’t change a thing.

      The time has come, give us the right tools and hopefully the Scottish people will use them.

      • weegingerdug says:

        Did you see the poll that was published today? Half of people in England would cheerfully see the back of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland – and a majority of Conservative voters in England would. The Unionism of the UK Conservatives is hollow and fragile.

  16. Hamish100 says:

    Alex you are right. Some of us oldies remember having 1 MP – a success, 11 a success but We never reached a consistency of vote as today.
    I think once we reach 55% another 2 independence parties will emerge. 58% 2 more or am I just being cynical?

    • I’m 64 , I remember Gordon Wilson in Dundee being the only SNP MP around he was the MP for Angus , my mum and dad voted for him, they had travelled the world and were sad and shocked to see what had become of Scotland when they returned to live here in the early seventies.
      Time for us to make Scotland the happy place for people live it deserves to be.

      We are all crushed into a few cities while huge areas of our country are kept from us owned by a handful of people who don’t live here , visit occasionally and misuse the land .

  17. Mbiyd says:

    To use a football pun: theres no point in having the ball you ‘ve got to use it.

    • grizebard says:

      To continue your parable (no pun visible), in order to win a game, you also have to know how (and when) to kick the ball. There’s a real skill to that (in case you haven’t noticed).

    • weegingerdug says:

      But you also have to be on the pitch. And up until very recently, Scotland wasn’t.

      Far too many of the woe woe thrice woe Nicola’s never going to get us independence people confuse their own personal support for independence with support across Scotland as a whole. The simple fact of the matter is that it’s only within the past couple of months that we’ve started to see the polls shifting in favour of consistent majorities for independence.

      • jistjr says:

        Hi Paul,
        Irrespective of Polls we consistently vote SNP to govern us and look after our interests as a Nation. The reason I say they will never get us Independence is because we need the YES movement which consists of people from all political persuasions and none.

        I expect my government to use all means available to look after my Rights as a European Union and Scottish Citizen. Am I expecting too much??

        When was the last time a uk gov had the majority of votes? I believe this mob have inly just over 39% !!!

    • Alex Clark says:

      You don’t get rid of your manager when they have your team more than 30 points clear of the opposition. Neither would you want to create division in the dressing room just when the biggest game of their lives is coming up. Unless of course you weren’t really a supporter of that team.

      • Mbiyd says:

        It’s like saying dont change horses in midstream. If you want to get to the other side and the horse your on doesnt want to go, you re forced to change horses. But the flag you carry is still the same….

        • Petra says:

          Mbiyd where on earth do you get the idea from that “the horse that you’re on doesn’t want to go”, lol? If you’re referring to Nicola Sturgeon I reckon that you’ve been been spending too much time on another site being brainwashed.

  18. I think Englands Westminster was leaned on by USA to do Brexit .
    USA tried to get EU to accept things like genetically modified food and in particular genetically modified beef, in the USA they add growth hormones to cattle feed but it makes the cattle grow too quickly for their heart and other organs to cope with .
    The EU refused to import such food from USA and that was it , the USA then decided to oppose the EU on everything and put pressure on UK to leave the EU.

    Seeing BJ , NF etc in the lift at trump tower the day after Brexit told a story.

    Between them UK and USA have done so much damage to the world

    Freeing ourselves from this evil partnership will set Scotland on a better path

  19. Being on the pitch
    Knowing how and when to kick a ball

    And..teamwork , working together , which I believe is the ingredient that makes champions

    We in Scotland need to stick together to win Scottish independence

  20. norm says:

    Let’s Get Going [Scotland] couldn’t have been better for the moment if they tried!

    But it begs a fun question… what will the no campaign’s slogan be at the next indyref?
    – Better Together? lol no
    – No thanks? Kind of fitted the moment last time but can’t see it fitting with the current mood
    – Stronger in Union? Worked well in 2016 didn’t it!
    – Status Quo?

    The fact is, whatever positive case they had for the union is gone, it’s just the status quo and even more uncertainty than indy would be.

  21. Eilidh says:

    So I have just seen on MisReporting Scotland that a former Snp MSP Dave Thomson is creating yet another Indy party to fight for the list vote at Scottish Elections in 2021. Apart from the Snp how many Indy parties real or imagined are there now. I have lost count Unbeleivable stupid move!!!

    • Welsh Sion says:

      Crazy or what?

      Maybe their following the Welsh model (on both sides of the spectrum). For our Senedd elections next year there appears to be these parties (at the very least) standing:

      1 Pro-independence
      Plaid Cymru
      Gwlad Gwlad
      Welsh National Party (name to be amended on Electoral Commission’s say-so after Plaid Cymru threatened to sue ‘Plaid Genedlaethol Cymru’)

      2 Anti-independence and Anti-Devolution
      Brexit Party
      UKIP
      Abolish the Assembly Party (again, name should be changed to refer to the fact that the ‘Assembly’ no longer exists as we have a Parliament – or haven’t they noticed?)

      3 Other Unionist
      ‘Welsh’ Conservatives
      ‘Welsh’ Labour
      ‘Welsh’ Liberal Democrats
      Green Party of England and Wales [sic.]

      4 Others
      Diverse ‘independents’

      A real alphabet soup of democracy – Welsh-style.

      Best regards to Scotland!

    • Petra says:

      I wonder who came up with, and has constantly been promoting, that crazy idea, eh? One that could lose us an Indy majority now. Everything going to plan for him … he thinks.

  22. Margaret BARRIE says:

    Paul, as always everything you say is, sadly, so very true and fantastically articulated. However, I have to say that, as someone who has been an activist for the restoration of Scotland’s Independence for over 60 years, I feel so sickened and disgusted by what is emanating from this foul W/M government, I can barely
    now contain my anger and feelings of hatred towards them. I don’t want to feel like this.

    For the first time in my life, I feel terribly trapped and I desperately want out and away, well away, from these corrupt, vacuous, lying charlatans who are attempting to destroy my country and it’s aspirations for a better future. I pray for the strength to keep on fighting them
    and to see my beloved Scotland finally free from this toxic Union.

  23. grizebard says:

    Yes, Margaret, channel that righteous anger. We all need some of it. As someone rightly said, “if you’re not angry, you’ve not been paying attention”.

  24. Arthur Thomson says:

    I must admit that there’s a bit of me that finds talk of another political party, of Nicola Sturgeon setting herself up to be the next UN Secretary General, of lack of progress towards independence etc. etc. bloody boring. Then again, I’m really only interested in Scotland becoming independent so I’m pretty laid back about it all.

    I take it for granted that there are large numbers of Brits embedded in the SNP to ensure that it fails. Likewise in the Yes movement. I take it for granted that quite a few of them will be in positions of apparent influence. But what to do about it? Nothing at all. We have no way of knowing who they are and we aren’t going to find out anytime soon. More importantly, they are an absolute irrelevance because the SNP is not “those people who want independence” , it is merely a political party set up to facilitate achieving independence. Being riddled with Brits can reduce the effectiveness of the SNP as an organisation but it has zero impact on people who want independence because they have seen through the John Bull shit.

    If Nicola Sturgeon has shown me anything it is that she is her own woman. I have no doubt whatsoever that she is highly aware of how compromised the SNP is. I equally have no doubt that SHE decides what she is going to do as Leader of the SNP, that she keeps her own counsel and leads with the aid of a very small number of trusted others. It is patently obvious to me that she is following her own plan. I see her as a strong leader who presents as charming and unassuming but ultimately has the capacity to be lethal. I also happen to think that attacks on her are most often based on misogyny – typically by people who make great claim of not being misogynistic.

    I have every confidence that she will deliver independence for Scotland. To me, the common characteristic of all people who are destined to achieve great things is humility. Think of the great leaders – not the scumbag dictators – and they all had it. Nicola has it (as has Alex Salmond) and in my opinion she has all the other other attributes needed to lead us to success.

    So I’m laid back and enjoying my popcorn.

  25. Mbiyd says:

    Sometimes a great manager retires after he fails to win the league one season but he passes on his legacy to his understudy. The understudy has all the benefits of the old managers contacts, support and foundation. The understudy just needs to win the league once. The understudy cant win the league because the understudy has decided that the opposition must determine how you actually win.

  26. Dr Jim says:

    So the new wonderful Independence party that will solve everybody’s problems and make us all happy
    By doing what exactly, if this party says they support Independence where do their votes come from, well they say that those votes will be SNP second votes or disgruntled Labour votes that will magically mean more than they did before because there’ll be more representatives for Independence likely to get a seat in parliament

    And that does what exactly, does it make Independence happen, well no but eh we’ll have some seats they say, and we’ll make the SNP do more to make Independence happen they say, OK how will that manifest itself, eh well we’ll say words and tell them and we’ll be stronger they say

    Well no they won’t because they will have removed from the SNP an amount of total votes cast for the strongest party and the only party in Scotland Westminster pays any attention to, the minute that personal vote is lessened Westminster will jump all over it as a sign that Scotland doesn’t want the SNP to represent Scotland anymore because: divisions, which is exactly what the people who came up with the idea want or they wouldn’t be doing it

    I’ve said this before but every political party win or lose counts total votes for their party as a bigger win than seats because it demonstrates support and swings to that party and all the pollsters in the world, all the psephologists and all the political advisers will tell you that, how many times does Sir John Curtice talk about the swings to and from political parties, if the SNP get less votes that automatically is a swing away

    We’ve had plenty of MPs we’ve had plenty of MSPs but Westminster resists, what Westminster cannot resist is total votes for one party, especially in Scotland where as we all know every election is a referendum on Independence or the opposition wouldn’t be joining together better together style to campaign against any further referendums

    Totals of votes are not a reflection of a one party state as some disingenuous scribblers try on the British Nationalist argument to convince us otherwise, it’s a reflection of a people wanting change, a national movement of solidarity, what these scribblers want to do is break that solidarity into smaller more manageable pieces for them to manipulate, subversion they call that

    If we stick together as one Scotland and remember we’re not voting for a policy we like or don’t like we’re voting as a country to tell another country we’re sick to the back teeth of them and we want to run our own business, they’ll try and try and cook up endless garbage to throw at us to divert us, they’ll promise the earth, they’ll say they’re on our side, they’ll swear it and try some more garbage, they’ll produce endless statistics and interpret them to mean what they want them to mean but if we stand together they can’t win if we don’t let them divide us, we forge a big hammer to crack a big nut, not a bunch of small ones arguing over who gets a shot, that’s just what the opposition wants

    Now what I call healthy

    • Legerwood says:

      “”Well no they won’t because they will have removed from the SNP an amount of total votes cast for the strongest party and the only party in Scotland Westminster…””

      Exactly what happened in 2017 Westminster GE when the vote for the SNP went down along with their total number of MPs.

      The absentee voters apparently felt that Ms Sturgeon did not say the Independence word often enough for their liking so they stayed away. By doing so they handed the Unionists and the Tories in particular the bragging rights for the next year or more to claim there was no appetite for a second indyref.

      Yet Ms Sturgeon had announced in March 2017 that there would be a second indyref because Brexit was a material change and all the Unionist parties were campaigning on a ‘No to a second indyref’. What better time to turn out en masse vote for the SNP thus saying Yes to a second indyref? But they stayed home.

      Now they want to split the vote. How did that work in 2016? Well? Or not so good? I think it was the latter.

      • Mbiyd says:

        No, the Unionist vote stratified around cohesive anti Independence rhetoric and policy

        The SNP have no such policy and the rhetoric continues to be flaky so the electorate dont know how best to channel their independence vote.

  27. Hamish100 says:

    Oh dear! Did you use to be in charge of Third Lanark?

    We are ahead in the polls. We need to get support of more undecideds and those who don’t vote usually and we will be there. Even a good team needs supporters.

    The power of the people will be unstoppable.

    • Mbiyd says:

      I suspect we are all at an impasse.

      The impasse has been created by the current leadership.

      It doesn’t matter how many people favour independence the current leadership have determined that Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings can decide our destiny and have empowered them.

      The current leadership is the problem.

  28. Hamish100 says:

    Comment to miybid

  29. bringiton says:

    At present,the focus is on trade with the EU and England scrambling around trying to cobble together agreements with other countries to make up the deficit.
    For Scots,the question must be which union offers the best deal for global trading,England or Europe.
    England is never going to achieve parity with trade deals negotiated between the EU and most of the worlds major economies.
    So……what was the point??

  30. Macart says:

    Pretty much and well said Paul.

    Brexit only ever had one outcome for the UK from the nanosecond Treeza sent the letter. Also? Constitutional conflict was the ONLY outcome possible for the populations of the UK once the votes were counted in 2016. Well. That and an economic meltdown. Covid is pretty much adding miserable injury upon injury, on top of insult by this point.

    We are where we are because of this conflict and because some folk chose poorly in 2014. The Scottish government is as caught in this conflict as we are. They’ve been given conflicting and incompatible instructions by their population. It’s just that simple and just that damning. For every perceived right or wrong that can be laid at the feet of thone essenpee govt. over the past few years, some people need only look in the mirror to find where the other (and more weighty) half of the fault lies. Only a deciding vote can satisfactorily settle the issue. The Scottish government can’t act without one and the UK government are unwilling to provide the Scottish government and population an opportunity to hold one. In fact, they and their chooms are throwing every spanner into the machinery of democracy they can think of. It’s what they do… apparently.

    Scotland’s population can become fully self governing when it is a majority decision (and demand) of that population. Oh, and as a by the by? It’s not enough to win at any cost. I’d say it kinda matters HOW you win a thing. But mibbies that’s just me.

    • Alex Clark says:

      Nice to see you posting again Macart. Seeing a bit of common sense injected into the debate is always a pleasure to read.

      • Macart says:

        Been a bad spring and summer to date (on a personal note). So I’ve been lurking in the main tbh. Didn’t feel like talking to folk. Didn’t know how for a good while.

        Doesn’t mean I haven’t been paying attention to proceedings though. 😉

        • Well I’m pleased to see ye because ma heid is fu’ o’ mince – I dinnae ken who or whit tae believe, we’re winning, we’re losing, Nicola is really Vladimir Putin, whatever

          I just know when I read your contributions they always make sense

          Welcome back 😘

          • Macart says:

            Know what you mean on the ‘who to believe’ thing. Trust yourself and the folk you love. Trust that you mean no harm and trust in the power of strong coffee and chocolate. 😎 🙂

        • X_Sticks says:

          LIkewise Macart. Like yourself I’ve been mostly lurking, but still keeping my eye on the ball. Good to know you’re still with us though, 😉

  31. Petra says:

    The ”impasse” has been created by the current killer crisis and as I see it, it’s the people who are complaining about one of the best leaders in the world that are the problem. Just wondering who you’d like to see replace Nicola Sturgeon? Jackson Carlaw or Richard Leonard?

    ………………………………………..

    Some Tory supporters seem to be as doolally as their leaders.

    ‘Face masks: Conservatives cut up membership cards in protest at new rules.’

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/face-masks-conservatives-cut-membership-113326209.html

    • Alex Clark says:

      Read that earlier today, for some reason the Tory woman featured in the article having torn up her membership card reminded me of the evil child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang 🙂

      Piece of trivia, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was written by Scottish author Ian Fleming for his son.

    • Alex Clark says:

      That story seems to be doing the rounds but big chunks are being left out compared to what I had read earlier, an example being this particular view of the person that reminded me of the evil child catcher 🙂

      “(Mr Johnson) has made some big mistakes,” Mrs Jenner said. “He’s not communicated a vision. It went from squashing the sombrero and saving the NHS, to the R number, which seems to have disappeared from everyone’s vocabulary.

      “I actually don’t know what he’s seeking to achieve.”

      She added that the Government’s move has left her politically homeless.

      “This is the dilemma, I really have no idea now. I really hope that some people create a new party. I’ve got my eyes on Nigel Farage and his Reform Party, possibly, but I haven’t done much research on what they stand for.

      https://archive.vn/wip/f6Guf

      I very much doubt she will ever get around to doing some research but will vote for Farage anyway. That’s basically why we have a Tory government. Voted into power through ignorance of the electorate as to what they are voting for.

      Check out the reaction from some Brexiters to the stories in this article of higher insurance for traveling abroad, larger mobile bills, and long queues in airports. They never voted for that! Neither though did they do any research and that’s why we have a clown as Prime Minister.

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Farage is a far-right Tory who failed to get elected, UKIP and latterly the Brexit party were/are from my perspective a hedge against Tory party collapse or internal rebellion against takeover by the extremists. Essentially it is the same money-obsessed right-wing clique who are running both the Brexit and Tory party to “fix” the political game in England, and by default UK policy.

        The extent to which England’s electorate have been and continue to be manipulated is remarkable, that this probably extends to the Belfast Telegraph article exemplifies the modern day dilemma, what is fact and what is fiction to “nudge” people in a given direction?
        Yet sometimes the propaganda goes awry…. The “subsidy junkies” myth they circulated to demean Scots is now biting them in the bum, the mafia are left fighting not only Scots but English who increasingly believe they will be better off with Scotland being independent.
        I suspect SNP thinking has been that as the impact of Brexit begins to be felt across greater England that sentiment will escalate and force London to unlock the S30 conundrum.

        As alluded to earlier, Johnson is a but a front-man who will do as he’s told until replaced by another, the mob will cheer it on as democracy because they’ve been told it is.
        In Scotland we still have a different grasp on democracy despite the efforts of the media to change it, all we need now is the starting pistol..

  32. Arthur Thomson says:

    No “we” are not an impasse. “We” are winning. Some people, in the scheme of things a very small number of people, have been persuaded by people who were very happy to talk up a halfwitted loser called Corbyn, that “we” are at an impasse.

    But no worries. “We” will get there despite you because “we” are not caught up in daft games or stories about Machiavellian plots.

    A word of advice to those who haven’t noticed – the good old Yookay is unravelling before your eyes of you just care to look. If you really are just Brits masquerading as Scots, ha ha, your country is fucked. If you are misguided Scots, detach yourselves from the self important twats who are telling you to self-destruct. That’s what Hitler told his minions to do FFS.

    • Dr Jim says:

      That’s it exactly, you split up when you’re running away not when you’re winning, that’s why the Brits are shelling out money paying for anybody to help them split us up
      Even woodworm would be embarrassed at their behaviour

  33. Ken2 says:

    The Tories will be going. They will be voted out, The mess and shambles is an absolute disgrace. It will end up in social unrest and violence. Deja Vu. Thatcher. The Tories had to get rid of Thatcher for closer ties with Europe to improve the economy.

    The Tories have now spent more on the Brexit shamble than all the total EU contributions. They are only getting started, The public monies they are wasting and the hardship they are causing is an international disgrace,

    The Tories will be going. Right out of office. With the swag they have embezzled from the public purse. They only reason they are in politics. To line their own pockets. They do not care about others. Poor, bad political decisions costing £Billions and causing hardship.

    Thank goodness for Devolution 2000, the Scottish Gov and the internet shared information. Standing up for Scotland.

    Support for SNP/Independence increasing.

  34. Ken2 says:

    No 5G for years. More £Billions wasted. Political decision taken by the Tories yesterday. More £Billions squandered. Ruining the UK economy.

    China 1.3Billion pop spends $228Billon on the military. Non aggressive, Another fakes flag opponent for the Tories to create. Cutting off their nose to spite their face. Wasting £Billions to line their pockets. Total corruption.

    Chinese Gov has taken China out of poverty.

    UK one of the most unequal places in the world.

    • ArtyHetty says:

      England has no opposition to the Tory party. They will vote Tory again, when the time comes, but they are not about to have an election. See Alex Clark’s excellent comment yesterday at 11.34pm, and the response from Bob Lamont. The woman in England sounds articulate, but feels ‘politically homeless’.

      Easy peasy to manipulate, she’d vote for Farage anyway, I reckon. A fascist. The Tories are far right wing, it’s dangerous as hell, but the people of England will vote for them again, no matter how much damage they cause. That is why Scotland needs independence, fascists don’t play nice.

      ‘No 5G for years’. Not ever if Scotland was relying on the Britnats to get that all in place, but, the Scottish government have invested in getting 5G installed for Scotland, must be costing a bit though. The amount they have to mitigate because of EngGov cuts and austerity is huge. The SNP need to keep shouting about that, every £ removed by the Britnat government, from the poorest and most vulnerable, impacts on local services and councils’ budgets, and the local and wider economy.

      Carers in Scotland, are awarded a top up twice a year. The DWP organisation in England, have carers survive on carers allowance at £66 a week!. The Scottish government doubled the amount of the top up ( Carers allowance is not yet a devolved matter) this summer because of the impact of Covid19.
      It’s that sort of thing which not only recognises the work that unpaid carers do, but also puts that money into local economies.

      Scotland needs independence to escape the tyranny of the ever more far right government in England. The politically ‘homeless’ in England are ripe for the picking and the dark days ahead will creep up on them.

      Scotland has a different idea, which is why the Britnats are now full on attempting to divide people whichever way they can, the ballot box being the ultimate goal.

      • Petra says:

        Thanks for your post ArtyHetty and it’s of note, but rarely mentioned by the media, that carers in Scotland, as you say, not only receive a Carer’s Allowance Supplement twice yearly but this year have been awarded an additional Coronavirus Carer’s Allowance Supplement of £230.10. In total carers in Scotland, only, will receive £690.20 this year that carers elsewhere in the rUK won’t. It gives us some idea of what we could do, to help those who are more vulnerable, if we were living in an independent Scotland.

        http://www.mygov.scot/carers-allowance-supplement/coronavirus-carers-allowance-supplement/

  35. JEN says:

    US pop 260Million. Military spend $700Billion a year. (Increased). Highest in the world (pro rata). 1/3 of all world military spending. Saudi Arabia second (pro rata). Illegal wars etc. Causing poverty and hardship worldwide.

    EU contribution. Shared military/Defence.EU. Keeps military costs down. An EU benefit worth every contribution. Saves monies.

    The Tories wasting public monies.

  36. Ken2 says:

    @ Ken2

    Pred text

  37. Ken2 says:

    US pop 260Million Military spend $700Billion. Highest in the world. 1/3 of all world military spend. Aggressive. Illegal wars. Destroying the world economy.

    EU contribution, Shared EU military/Defence keeps costs down EU contribution worth every penny keeping costs down. Saving monies.

    Brexit totally wasting public monies. Tories wasting £Billions.

    EU formed after WW2 to stop War and starvation in Europe/world, it been successful in these aims. Upholding people’s rights. Enshrined in Law and in Devolution settlement.

    .

    • Cubby says:

      A beautiful statue. If I lived in Bristol I would vote to keep it in place. Time for that statue of Donald Dewar in Buchanan st, Glasgow to go as well – in fact time for the name Buchanan st to go.

  38. Welsh Sion says:

    Keep an eye on the Senedd, today, folks:

    Call for freedom from ‘dysfunctional’ Westminster as Senedd hold first independence debate
    15th July 2020

    https://nation.cymru/news/call-for-freedom-from-dysfunctional-westminster-as-senedd-hold-first-independence-debate/

    Plaid Cymru leader Adam Price will call for Wales to be given a chance to free itself from the “dysfunctionality and ineptitude” of Westminster as the Senedd debates independence for the first time today.

    The party will call for the Welsh Parliament to be given the powers to hold a referendum on the subject, a power that is currently held by Westminster.

    The latest opinion poll for Welsh independence had support on 25% – a +4 increase since January.

    Meanwhile, support for Scottish independence is currently at 54% whilst 45.4% in Northern Ireland and 73.1% in the Republic of Ireland back a united Ireland.

    […]

    _________________________

    – A historic day, indeed.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      👍

    • Welsh Sion says:

      From Plaid Cymru:

      Today, we’re holding a debate in the Senedd, calling for Wales to have the power to hold an independence referendum.

      Westminster isn’t working for Wales and an independent Wales isn’t only possible, it’s necessary.

      But to get there we have to vote for it and only a Plaid Cymru Government will secure Wales’ independence.

      Here’s what you can do to support us today:

      Watch the debate on Senedd.TV at 6.30pm

      Share this post

      Ask a friend to join us

  39. Dr Jim says:

    The whole of my life I grew up with the Labour party screwing Scotland to death on behalf of the Tories and nobody criticised them and nobody much even knew who they were, we just all knew the brown envelopes were passed around to those and such as those

    The SNP has more criticism thrown at them in one day, more demands made on them, higher expectations demanded of them and everybody knows their names and they come in for more scrutiny than a holy deity’s charity box donation at a church picnic

    Folk never demanded anything of the Labour party because they were always on holiday far away depending on the thickness of their brown envelope

  40. deelsdugs says:

    Talking of travel, I’ve just had to get a new passport. Groan. Gone is my lovely maroon one with EU status, now waiting for the the dreaded take on the new one…still, looking to the future, change is on its way.

  41. Ken2 says:

    US uses military force to copyright/protect US multinationals and US interests. Illegal wars ruining the world economy. Killing people.

    The virus comes from China ruining the world economy? Killing people

    .

  42. jistjr says:

    Well folks I am losing the will to live having read most of this (hot air) which is a waste of time.and effort.
    All of the contributers here seem to be missing the point that the DAMAGE will be done on Dec31st 2020 if we do not use EVERY means at our disposal to stop or otherwise delay this event.

    I would suggest we all need to face facts!!!
    The Scottish National Party will NEVER win Independence through the ballot box so long as Westminster has its foot on Scotlands neck. Politely asking them to remove it is going well isn’t it??

    IF parties that support self determination for our country WIN every seat what will change? The English establishment will simply ignore our MSPs and any Section 30 request.

    A drowning man/woman can be in TOUCHING distance of a lifebelt however if they don’t reach it Guess what? That person will drown.

    As far as I can see (football analogies aside) The SNP should be the political arm of the YES movement, and the YES movement should be in the fight!!! Perhaps crowdfunding a legal challenge to the ropes that bind us?

    If anyone knows any way to put a spoke in Gove’s wheels this should be done forthwith whether it be through the British courts to start with, or by removing our toothless MP’s from Parliament.

    This is not a carp at our Government as I think they do a great job governing within the constraints of Devolution. which the Tories are trying to hamstring the first chance they get.

    I was recently pointed towards the Scotland-UN Committee which states that :-
    “All peoples have the right to self-determination.” so I ask myself
    What has changed? Or are we accepting that we cannot invoke that right?

    “God grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, COURAGE to change the things I can, and WISDOM to know the difference”

    It is time for Scotland to take affirmative action to acheive our goal of deciding our own Future

    • Bob Lamont says:

      👀 Just checking you “ain’t dead yet”..
      I can only agree “having read most of this (hot air) which is a waste of time.and effort”, there is no better summary, perhaps SERENITY might be a first objective ?

      • jistjr says:

        Hi Bob, Still alive thanks (Lol)
        Serenity is no longer an option as my blood is up!!!
        I think wisdom tell me that this fight is just beginning although if it does not get going before we are emaciated on 31st Dec it won’t matter the size of the fight in the DUG cos the damage will be done
        IF their other colony across the sea can have a special deal WHY CAN’T Scotland???

        • Moonlight says:

          So sad, you’re absolutely right. In fact the day the UK left the EU we were done for. This transition period has only served to delay the worst effects.
          I wish I knew what to do, I don’t have a platform or influence. I can only act as part of a large and competent group.
          I totally agree that no matter what the mood in Scotland, Westminster will simply ignore us, they don’t need our votes or our agreement. We can boil and seethe all we want, we can be righteously angry.
          Our Irish cousins have the massive advantage that the EU is forcing Westminster to give them a deal and they have the advantage of Irish citizenship,

          I have for some time been of the view that the constitutional/legal route is the only one remaining open to us, up to now we’ve had the EU at our backs, the devolution project was to satisfy their view that there was a democratic deficit in the UK. Westminster allowed it as power devolved is power retained. The labour party believed that they had a right to be elected in Scotland, between that and the rigged electoral system they imagined that Holyrood would be a cuddly puppy, sticking to the party line.
          So here we are, not only am I in despair but I am boiling with rage. Not at the SG who I agree do a competent job in extremely difficult constraints., My rage is directed at the self serving Westminster cabal and I have to admit, to an extent, to the naive electorate who put them in power.
          Somewhere in all this is a flaw in constitutional terms, who can find it, what court will find in its favour.

    • Alex Clark says:

      The SNP were slated by many for opposing Brexit “we should have just let England get on with it”, what exactly is it do you think the SNP can do now that the UK is no longer a member. We are already out of the EU and the only way back in will be to become Independent and reapply to join or do you have another plan.

      “The Scottish National Party will NEVER win Independence through the ballot box”

      That’s your opinion, just exactly what type of “affirmative action” would you recommend? I take it you have thought seriously about such action and would like others, like me, to take affirmative action too. Maybe you could share your plans for “affirmative action” that does not involve the ballot box and we can discuss the merits such plans.

      • jistjr says:

        Hi Alex, I was not thinking of Michael Collins type action, Just Yet( LOL.) Surely we could be asking over and over again like a troublesome child for what we seem by all accounts to need (S30)

        Could we not advise Them we intend to resile the act of Union and start the process. I disagree about being out already as we are still under the EU court system WE still have our passports and we are still in the customs union whilst in transition.

        I do not claim to have any great knowledge around the technicalities. I would point out that the Act is a biggoted 300 year old item which surely needs to be scrapped/challenged as it can not be everlasting, particularly as it is being used to harm us Scots. I would support any action wholehartidly whether it be sending two letters a a day recorded delivery to Downing street or signing peteitions or chipping in to support a legal challenge.

        The anger at our treatment is growing and I do not wish to lose the rights we currently have. I certainly do not want our poorest people to be subjected to Hormone enhanced beef or chlorinated chicken.

        We need to make sure that ignoring us is no longer an option

  43. Alex Clark says:

    jistjr I appreciate the response and I’ll tell you where I see issues with some of what you say. First off, we cannot just “resile the act of Union” and expect International recognition without being able to provide evidence of substantial majority support of the Scottish people. You only need to look at the example of Catalonia for evidence of the truth of that statement. Not a single country in the world has called for Catalonia’s referendum to be recognised as legitimate, least of all the EU which barely even condemned the actions of the Spanish police.

    The other point I’ll make is that the Scottish government have not been “asking over and over again” for a Section 30 order. In fact an official request for a Section 30 order has been made just once and that was to Boris Johnson. An official request was not made to Theresa May, it would have happened but for May calling the GE in 2017 despite saying she definitely wouldn’t have an election. The fact that the SNP lost more than 500,000 votes and 23 seats put paid to any notion of an official request for a Section 30 order.

    I don’t think “asking over and over again” would serve any purpose at all and there will have to be other avenues considered, these potential other avenues have been explored recently on this blog, including an advisor referendum and a plebiscite election, neither of which I imagine will be easy to do or else we would absolutely be doing it.

    I think we need the ballot box, Scotland will never be an Independent country unless we take the people of Scotland with us. The pressure is and will continue to build on Westminster over this, I’m certain about that. When the pandemic has been dealt with we may see some clues to the path ahead and in my opinion, that’s as it should be.

    • jistjr says:

      Alex two points
      1 catalonia is not a country as far as I am aware.
      2 we should ask over and over again is my point. Get the refusals mounting snd highly publicise them.
      The UN recognised some time ago that each country has the RIGHT to Self Determination. I wish to know how this country effects our RIGHT.
      What the world thinks is no concern of mine since they cannot alter our existence and no-one can tell what anyone thinks so dont let it affect your actions is my point as well. Deal with tomorrow when it comes
      The act is by many peoples view ILLEGAL and Prejudiced. That being the case it should be destroyed. The English can then come and re-negotiate a new deal with us if they want so we can be a United Kingdom under a proper modern agreement????

      • Alex Clark says:

        Do you agree with the point that the majority of the people of Scotland must want Independence, last time round they clearly didn’t and said so at the ballot box that they wanted to be governed by Westminster and to remain in the UK.

        How can you prove that enough people have changed their minds since the last referendum and that it is now the will of the Scottish people to claim their right to self-determination?

        • jistjr says:

          Hello Alex
          NO i do not agree that the majority of the people should want Independence Although that would be the Gold standard. The fact is we have an electoral system where we elect a Government by a system which is Rigged against any Party getting an outright majority. correct me if Im wrong but have the SNP not managed that?
          We have a UK government with the support of under 40% of the electorate and they decide to remove us from Europe although 62% of Scots want to stay.
          They have managed this by constantly LYING and cheating. The labout party in my constituency were telling Pensioners that independence would mean the loss of their pensions in 2014.,
          The Unionists said we could not use the Pound and if we voted No we would leave Europe!! How did that work for us.
          What really annoys me is it appears we have stopped pushing for Independence but they have not stopped pushing for Brexit. Wee Gove is just forging ahead regardless.
          I saw Johnston snapping at Blackford to-day Lying again saying we want to hand over our decisions to Europe instead of the graet powers they will give us.
          I find it difficult to put my feelings towards him into words.

      • weegingerdug says:

        It’s not for you to decide that Catalonia is not a country. It’s for the Catalans. That’s the ‘self’ part in self-determination.

        • jistjr says:

          Paul
          Are you saying that Catalonia is a country? Does it have it’s own Laws. Does it have its Own Parliament?
          Just asking. In any event Catalans can look to their status and Scotland’s Government should look after ours.
          I tatally abhor the way the Catalans were treated and are being treated by Spain though my concern is Scotlands situation

          • weegingerdug says:

            I am saying that the right to self-determination is just that. It’s for the people of Catalonia to decide whether or not Catalonia is a country.

            And yes, it has its own laws and its own parliament.

            • jistjr says:

              Hi Paul,
              Thank you for your response. Every day is a school day!!!
              More power to their elbow.
              It appears to me the UK gov are trying to imply they would take the same Actions as Spain to once again implement a sort of derivation of Project Fear. Then again they will stoop to anything to retain power over Scotlands people and its Wealth.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s