The EU’s open arms

Scotland’s best chance of getting back into the EU is through independence. Kirsty Hughes, the director of the Scottish Centre for European Relations and an expert on EU matters, has said that the EU would welcome the membership of an independent Scotland but would be far more wary should the UK attempt to rejoin. In other words, if Scotland wants a closer relationship with the EU, as consistent majorities of the Scottish electorate say they would like to see, the quickest and easiest way of achieving it will be as an independent nation.

There is broad sympathy for Scotland throughout the EU. The mood music from Europe is now very different to what it was in 2014 when the EU saw itself as a representative of the interests of one of its most important and largest member states, the UK. In 2014 we saw a succession of EU figures lining up to pour cold water on Scottish hopes of EU membership as an independent nation. Most of these figures were allied to the British Conservatives in the EU Parliament, although their ties to the Tories were never made explicit to the Scottish public by our media.

We won’t be seeing that again. The EU is no longer in the business of working in the interests of the British state. Indeed, the experience of Brexit and the lies, dissembling, dishonesty, and lack of good faith of the British Government have left a very bitter taste in the mouths of many in Brussels. The next Scottish independence referendum will see a very different style of messaging from the EU. It will not actively intervene in support of independence, but there will be a very different and more positive tone, and there will be many more EU figures who are prepared to make statements which are favourable to Scottish membership.

Scotland is seen as a normal northern European country, one whose values and ideals are far more closely in alignment with the European norm than the exceptionalism of the UK. Our European friends understand that Scotland did not vote for Brexit, and that we have been torn out of the EU without our agreement. Those who follow British politics more closely also understand that Scotland has not been permitted any input or influence into determining the shape that Brexit takes. At every step along the way Scotland has been marginalised, ignored, and trivialised by the British Government. This generates a considerable sympathy for Scotland’s position amongst our European allies.

Meanwhile the British state has burned through what remained of its credibility. Britain is seen as deeply untrustworthy, unstable, and prone to a delusional exceptionalism. The EU would only consent to the UK rejoining the EU if it was sure that it was no longer going to be the perennial thorn in the side of other EU member states that it was during the UK’s first period as a member. There will be no more toleration of British exceptionalism, no appetite for special deals or exemptions for the UK. And above all, the UK will only be allowed back into the EU if the EU sees that it has genuinely changed and is now willing and able to cooperate as a member instead of demanding special treatment. There’s very little sign of that happening in a UK which is going ever further down the rabbit hole of British exceptionalism.

Both the Conservatives and Labour are now parties of Brexit, but even if the UK did elect a party at the next General Election which was committed to rejoining the EU it would take many years and long and protracted negotiations before Britain was allowed back in again. You don’t quickly reinvite a house guest who vomited all over your carpet during their last stay and trashed your living room. There is a need for a long period of rebuilding trust, and that’s a currency which the British Government has squandered and devalued. The EU has learned that they don’t call it Perfidious Albion for nothing.

On the other hand a Scotland which had achieved independence legally and constitutionally, as has always been foreseen by the Scottish Government, is a Scotland that the EU would welcome back with open arms. Scottish politics are not disfigured by the lurch to right wing populism that currently defines the UK political scene. In Nicola Sturgeon we have a leader who has the respect of other EU member states, unlike the boorish bragging bluster of Johnson.

It is of course up to the people of Scotland to decide the nature of the relationship that they want with the EU. There is a certain body of opinion within the independence movement which doesn’t want EU membership. We must not go into an independence referendum which is predicated upon EU membership for an independent Scotland, rather we must be making the point that it should be up to the people of an independent Scotland to decide whether they wish Scotland to be in the EU, or what sort of relationship that they want Scotland to have with the EU if we are not to be a full member.

However there is little doubt that there is currently a majority within Scotland which hopes to rejoin the EU, and even amongst those who wish to remain outwith the EU there is an appetite for a closer relationship with Europe than we’re going to get with the no-deal Brexit that Johnson and his cronies have in store for us.

What independence supporters need to make loud and clear to no voters who wanted to remain in the EU is that the quickest and surest way back into a closer relationship with the EU is through independence. If you valued freedom of movement throughout Europe, independence is the quickest and most reliable way to restore it. If you believe that the single market is vital for Scotland’s economic prospects, independence is the most direct route to getting it back. This is an issue which will loom even larger in people’s minds after the end of this year, when the transitional period ends and Johnson and his lying Brextremists have got what they wanted.

Scotland is a European nation, our future and our natural place in the world has been taken away from us by British nationalist exceptionalists. We can’t get it back by appealing to those same British nationalist exceptionalists. Only independence can achieve a normal Scotland. The EU will welcome us with open arms.


You can help to support this blog with a Paypal donation. Please log into Paypal.com and send a payment to the email address weegingerbook@yahoo.com. Or alternatively click the donate button. If you don’t have a Paypal account, just select “donate with card” after clicking the button.
Donate Button

If you have trouble using the button, or you prefer not to use Paypal, you can donate or purchase a t-shirt or map by making a payment directly into my bank account, or by sending a cheque or postal order. If you’d like to donate by one of these methods, please email me at weegingerbook@yahoo.com and I will send the necessary information.

Please also use this email address if you would like the dug and me to come along to your local group for a talk.

GINGER2croppedGaelic maps of Scotland are available for £15 each, plus £7 P&P within the UK for up to three maps. T-shirts are £12 each, and are available in small, medium, large, XL and XXL sizes. P&P is £5 for up to three t-shirts. My books, the Collected Yaps Vols 1 to 4 are available for £11 each. P&P is £4 for up to two books. Payment can be made via Paypal.


newbook My new book has just been published by Vagabond Voices. Containing the best articles from The National from 2016 to date. Weighing in at over 350 pages, this is the biggest and best anthology of Wee Gingerisms yet. This collection of pieces covers the increasingly demented Brexit years, and the continuing presence and strength of Scotland’s independence movement.

You can order the book directly from the publisher. Ordering directly means that postage is free. You can order here –
https://www.vagabondvoices.co.uk/rants/barking-up-the-right-tree-2019

You can also order a book directly from me. The book costs £11.95 and P&P is an additional £3.50, making a total of £15.45. To order just make a Paypal payment to weegingerbook@yahoo.com, or alternatively use the DONATE button below. Please make sure to give me your postal address when ordering. Orders to be sent outwith the UK will incur extra postage costs, please email me for details. If you can’t use Paypal, or prefer an alternative payment method, please email weegingerbook@yahoo.com


 

73 comments on “The EU’s open arms

  1. Ken2 says:

    If people want to stay in the EU vote for it.

    Vote SNP/Independence to stay in the EU. The only chance for it.

    The power is in the people’s hands. Use it. Do not abuse it. Care for others.

    • Brian Lucey says:

      Sorry to disappoint but…Scotland has already LEFT the EU, as part of the UK.
      The only way into the EU now is to apply as an independent country.

      • Ken2 says:

        The UK has not left the EU and never will. It is only in name only. A lip service. It is still completely covered by EU regulations in many areas, The Tories will be voted out before it will happen.

        They are trying to charge people to stay. Being challenged through the Courts.

        Scottish Gov still has powers to legislate against any changes. EU rights and regulation are embedded in Devolution legislation.

        The Tories are tying themselves in knots. They are acting illegally. The Westminster cabel acting as a cartel. Johnston is awful.

        • Ken2 says:

          31 December. Not there yet.

          Imagine the mess by them. The complete and utter shambles already started. Johnston will be gone. It is a short matter of time.

          The Tories now trying to buy off the voters. A complete and utter shambles. Deja Vu Thatcher. They had to get rid of her for closer ties with Europe to improve the economy. Going backwards. 30 years in the wilderness again.

          • vivianoblivian7 says:

            Difficult to imagine a route by which Johnson can be deposed from within. That said, Rishi Sunak’s people have been forwarding the Press pictures of him sitting at his desk in shirt sleeves with head in hand studying his papers. A pointed contrast to the blonde buffoon. Team Sunak are ones to watch.

            • Ken2 says:

              The ex fraudster banker and the billionaire daughter wife. The £190 flask sitting on the desk. Not very representative, They will be the ones to watch. Migrant families depriving other migrants. Totally disrespectful. Killing others.

              Johnston was sitting next to him on the benches. A need to separate from him. Social distancing. Johnston gave him the virus. After nearly killing himself.

              They kill others. Vote Tory to die younger. Now trying to buy off voters.The approval ratings are tanking. Losing support faster than a sieve loses water. A flood of lack of ability. Very depressing. Never have so many been promoted above their capabilities. They have not got a clue.

        • brianmlucey says:

          Sorry lad. You HAVE left. In law. And now it’s about the situation after the agreed transition period.

  2. Welsh Sion says:

    I know this is only partly EU related, so apologies for being o/t so soon. Thought you might like to see Guardian’s latest op-ed, with comments btl allowed if you’re so minded:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/a-scottish-independence-crisis-is-on-its-way-and-english-politics-is-in-denial/ar-BB16t515?ocid=msedgntp

  3. Leigh Cassidy says:

    Agree but that will require an indy ref whilst there are still EU politicians who can remember the brexit campaign. At the rate the SNP are moving I feel many of the sympathetic EU ministers will have retired.

    • weegingerdug says:

      Woe woe and thrice woe. That’s not going to win us our independence.

    • I’ve said it before and got blocked for saying it on other forums, Nicola Sturgeon is a canny canny lass. Referred to in my family circle as that wee canny lass wi er heid aye in a book. Let me assure you that independence won’t come from charging in, patience is the key here. Paul has repeatedly said over the years I have followed this blog that support for independence among the Scottish electorate is the primary concern. Paul’s latest podcast with Andrew Tickell points out whether we like it or not there is no magic legal bullet we can employ, it’s a political decision. It would be quite pointless to call indyref2 until the support for the Scottish government has peaked given the media onslaught which will assuredly come. Playing the game…

  4. vivianoblivian7 says:

    An independent Scotland gaining full membership of the EU? There’s a fly in that ointment. If the EU get wind of Polis Scotland’s self described “Salmond squad” we’re fucked. Even Viktor Orbán would blush at the notion of directing the Police and Judiciary against even the mildest critics of government.
    Personally I’d go for the Norway option, but that’s for us all to decide.

  5. Ken2 says:

    Wolfe could outed. Held to account. Unionist stooges trying to muck up. These days are numbered.

    Independence/EU membership could make sure of that. Unionism will be outed

    Vote them out.

  6. […] Wee Ginger Dug The EU’s open arms Scotland’s best chance of getting back into the EU is through independence. Kirsty […]

  7. Dr Jim says:

    Nicola Sturgeon’s been working away at this for a long time, remember when the UK government witheld consular assistance from Scotland because they knew what she was doing and who she was talking to, but they couldn’t stop her so they behaved like spoilt kids and stamped their feet

    She’s not doing enough, we want a plan A,B,C and a route map and we want to hear her shouting the word Independence all over the place, because that means she’s serious, the detractors believe making lots of noise is evidence of action, well here’s the action the FMs been taking all coming together now
    Nicola Sturgeon has made sure the leaders of the EU know who she is what she stands for and how she intends to go about it, and made friends and allies with them into the bargain, and that’s why the UK fear her more, she’s careful and meticulous as she moves one step at a time to the endgame

    Scotland needs allies, every sensible country in the world makes connections with others, if they don’t they become unpopular like America and now England, we hear from MEPs in Brussels the nickname for the Tories is the English Nationalist party, one MEP said they might as well be led by Nigel Farage, there’s no difference

    Indeed Scotland will be welcome within the EU or whichever combined entity we choose to join because apart from everything Scotland does have to offer there’s one thing that countries would sever a limb to have and Scotland has it *Location location location*, and that means access to and from everywhere and more immediately the bridge from Ireland to anywhere, an important geographical bonus for them us and the EU, Scotland when combined with Ireland Denmark Norway and other Nations means Scotland becomes the centre of a giant and the rest of the UK becomes what they fear,,,,,,,Little England!!

    England will fight back tooth and nail against this much more than they did in 2014 when they expected to win anyway, Nicola Sturgeon knows that as does every serious politician, she’s not a blowhard in the moment politician, she’s a planner and she’ll do it right, and as long as the people of Scotland get behind her and give her the support she needs we’ll win

    The *we demand to know the plan* folk have two reasons for shouting this stuff, One: they’re not all that bright about Realpolitik, and Two: they just simply want to create doubt and division

    We can’t win if we’re not all in it together

    • deelsdugs says:

      👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼bravo Dr Jim…

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Yup

    • ArtyHetty says:

      Totally well said Dr.Jim.

      You don’t reveal your cards to your opposition, if you do, they will win. there is certainly a concerted effort to sow seeds of doubt in peoples’ minds.

      I was thinking yesterday, what happened to the ‘lead us don’t leave us’ tripe that the Britnats came out with in 2014. It’s been anything but since 2014!

      The Britnats know that soundbites (lies) won’t work next time, they’ll be plotting right now, and panicking. They won’t reveal their cards, ever, and we never hear the Britnats shouting ‘we demand to know the plan’ at their masters. Strange.

    • marconatrix says:

      I very much hope you’re right Dr. J. and that the doubters can contain their impatience a wee while longer …

    • Julia Gibb says:

      Fully agree. We have armchair experts tell the general how to fight the battle. They demand the full plan be posted prior to the campaign start. They just want to charge straight at the guns.
      Unfortunately this new political warrior class also want to attack their own army first.

      • Cubby says:

        Julia, 4 years on from the EU vote and you are still using the old trope “charge straight at the guns”. Just how long is the line to be held – another old trope – 40 years?

        Plenty of old tropes being pulled out the bag of old tropes in the posts above in this thread.

  8. Dr Jim says:

    While holding all the economic levers of power over England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland the chancellor of the English exchequer informs us that we’re too wee and too poor to manage without them
    For fifty years the UK of England has borrowed money on the future of what comes out of the North sea and the economies of each and every country within the boundaries of Englands control, they then waste that money on whatever they want to do with it or decide to wage wars with it or provide the basis for corruption with it then have the temerity to tell the rest of us that we must pay the interest on the debt that they incurred while at the same time telling us we made no contribution to the economy that created that position of wealth

    So Scotland makes an insufficient contribution to the English exchequer, yet if Scotland wishes to leave that system to form our own we know what occurs in that immensely wealthy country that is so magnanimous towards us too wee too poor Scottish people, they panic, the love us, they threaten us, all in that order, but sometimes some people in Scotland forget what they’ve been doing to us for three hundred years without let up and without end, they’ve belittled us, they’ve insulted us, they’ve stolen as much of our cultural identity from us as they could then belittled that all over again

    But it’s only banter, we Scots can’t take a joke apparently, well apparently twenty seven other European countries can’t take a joke either, so they’re wrong too, but I’ll tell you what they’re not, they’re not too wee or too poor, and they answer back

    C’mon Scotland, time to answer back

    • ArtyHetty says:

      Yep. Go to moving image archive at National Library of Scotland website and many of the (short) films over the past 100+ years are very revealing about Scotland’s resources, not many available obviously because they expose the oil bonanza in Scottish territorial waters, but some are there to watch. Scotland’s resources have been plundered by the English elite, thieved, and the people of Scottish have been told they are good for nothing subsidy junkies to boot!

      It can’t carry on now, people have had their eyes opened.

    • Cubby says:

      “C’mon Scotland, time to answer back. “So who should be doing this?

  9. bringiton says:

    As Manuel Barroso found to his cost,what a Westminster Tory government says it will do in return for favours and the actual out turn are two very different things.
    He isn’t the present NATO secretary General.

  10. Welsh Sion says:

    Cymru and Scotland – unite against this threat:

    Westminster set to ‘force’ Wales and Scotland to accept new post-Brexit food standards
    8th July 2020

    https://nation.cymru/news/westminster-set-to-force-wales-and-scotland-to-accept-new-post-brexit-food-standards/

    The Financial Times today cites a source familiar with the proposed UK internal market bill said it would create powers to enable the Westminster government to “force” Scotland and Wales to accept the standards.

    “The net effect is that whatever — and that means whatever — happens to food standards as a result of signing [free trade agreements], the Scots and Welsh will have to accept those lower standard products on to their market,” the source said.

    • Dr Jim says:

      If the Scottish government can use the power of public health and draw food standards into that area we might have a fair chance in fending this off for a little while at least until the next move out of the Union can be sorted
      The plan of the UK of England is to fracture Scotlands food standards with those of the EU in a bid to prevent us rejoining on the basis of divergence from EU standards, the SNP and Greens will resist and the Tories will scream separatism and grievance, Labour will hide then concede everything as will the Liberal Dumbocrats in Better togetherness

      Please can we get more Covid, please can we have bad obesity causing food, they’re some bunch of scamps these British Nationalist separatists eh

  11. Ken2 says:

    The Tory farmers will be up in arms about lower food standards affecting their products. Flooding the market with inferior products from elsewhere. Not a well supported option. Damaging their income.

    The food retailers fund the Tory Party. They will not be happy being expected to lose customers to facilitate Brexit. The queues and damaged or perished goods. The rammy that will cause.

    There might even be shortage of essential supplies. People not getting their favourite foods. Shelves empty again. Increasing the prices.

  12. Ken2 says:

    The Tory farmers will not be very happy.

    The food retailers who fund the Tory Party will not be very happy.

    Neither will the general public.

  13. Ken2 says:

    A disastrous policy. The Tory have offend nearly every section of society. It will all end in tears again.

  14. Mbiyd says:

    Another great post.

    Nobody disputes Nicola is fantastic. I have said it before the UK has now arrived at a stage where her most able politicians are implacably opposed to her very existence. But the current SNP leadership has to devise a plan which progresses the independence debate and the expectations of many. The time is ripe. Even the most indomitable Tory voting farmers are now switching to independence. The SNP will not get a section 30 agreement so the legal means has to be constructed elsewhere. The question we should be asking is the mechanism Ireland, India etc used to secede. As I understand it they used the popular vote.

    In the meantime, I continue to fly the flag of Tenerife.

    .

  15. vivianoblivian7 says:

    The American trade deal negotiators will go hard against any notion of geographical indicator protection for goods. Trump blames the EU for “stopping Mexico from importing cheese from Wisconsin”. The trade in cheese was stopped because it was labelled “Parmesan”. Only the trading power of the EU was sufficient to force Mexico to act. As of the first of January 2021, expect distilleries across America to start marketing “Scotch whisky” in the growing market in India and the Far East. How much leverage will the UK have to prevent this infraction of geographical indicator protection?

    • M biyd says:

      Another reason why the SNP have to act quickly.

      I keep anticipating that the UK government at the last minute will do a deal over access to Scottish territorial waters and if we as an independent nation try to negotiate reentry our leverage will be gone.

      • weegingerdug says:

        No. It doesn’t work like that. If the UK negotiates a deal with the EU regarding a Scottish territorial asset and then Scotland becomes independent, the deal becomes null and void because Scotland is not a signatory to it. The EU will have to renegotiate the deal with Scotland.

  16. JoMax says:

    I remember an economist on the radio back at the time of the Brexit campaign who was obviously anti-EU saying that there should be no farm/landowning subsidies and that it should all be down to export/import prices. That, of course, means the UK market being flooded with cheap, nasty and possibly dangerous food products from anywhere on the planet and the eventual demise of high-quality, safe UK/EU, and particularly Scottish, produce which could not compete in the domestic market. We should be very worried. It would also lead to the demise of Scottish hill farmers and crofters and the further erosion of fragile communities – not that London gives a damn.

    The only thing I did agree with him on was that very rich landowners – such as HM and her brood and many others – should not be in receipt of subsidies, but that could easily be sorted with sensible policies in which loopholes were firmly closed.

  17. douglasclark says:

    JoMax.

    That is the risk that the UK wants to take. Quite why we would surrender to that is beyond me.

  18. Mark Russell says:

    Two thoughts:

    Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    and/then

    Cast the line to the other side of the river.

    Scotland could provide the blueprint. It has the experience and energy. Brussels will prove another diversion and disappointment. We are standing at the line in the sand. Believe in yourselves and you will prevail. Trust in others and everyone fails.

    Lead the way.

  19. Arthur Thomson says:

    We’re doomed I tell you, doomed.

    WTF is it with some of the comments on here today? Ah – the conditional independence supporters have arrived, along with a consignment of Brits masquerading as human beings.

    Fortunately, very fortunately they will have precisely zero impact on the singularly important matter of Scotland returning to independence. They may number a few hundred, even a few thousand at a considerable stretch but they will be irrelevant to the positive outcome.

    Sumday tell me how it’s gonnae happen. If we dinnae move fast a meteor is gonnae hit us. The Brits are gonnae dae this tae us, they’re gonnae dae that tae us, they’re gonnae make the sun disappear.

    FFS I wid be gettin scared if I believed even a bit o’ this guff.

    The Brits are going to continue with their John Bull shit and are going to achieve the same outcome of increasing the number of Scots who, like me, are going to say I want independence because – because I do. Because all this Brit shit has to come to an end and it will come to an extremely grotty end. But how – nobody knows but it sure as he’ll is going to happen because people are waking up. People are seeing the Brits for incompetent charlatans that they are and are losing their fear of them. If wee Nicola Sturgeon can front up the world beating British government and kick their sorry arses at every turn, more and more Scots are going to get a grip on themselves and start backing her.

    Anyway, none of this is very scientific but I have not the slightest doubt that Nicola and the best of her team are heading where Ghandi and Mandela went before her.

    Just one other point. It is entertaining to read stuff from the Guardian, the Financial Times, the Independent etc. making what appear to be positive noises about the independence movement. But BEWARE of the old chestnut of : “my you are looking well today, you are looking ten years younger, my boy was just saying how you definitely don’t look your age, have you got a new love 💘 in your life – but of course we can’t hold back time forever, can we? Are you ok? ”

    They are just puking out a more subtle form of the same Brit shit propaganda. It all ends with BUT. It doesn’t impact on me because when it comes to Scotland’s independence there are no buts.

  20. Well said Arthur.
    Increasingly we are hearing people in england say…
    The whole of the UK should get a vote on scottish independence
    If scotland leave the uk they dont get to take the oil and gas because it belongs to uk
    How will scotland pay for things without englands taxpayer
    England will deport all scottish people living in england back to scotland
    Scotland will not be allowed to use englands pound
    Scotland will not be allowed to trade with uk
    Bla bla bla what is yours is mine and what is mine is mine

  21. Alex Clark says:

    It looks like they have totally lost the plot now, Westminster propaganda 24/7 coming soon.

    BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 unite for simultaneous short film broadcast

    “The film will play across all participating channels throughout the month.”

    https://archive.vn/wip/mIL9Y

    • Dr Jim says:

      Take your hands off me you dirty Ape, Scot, Welshman, Irishman, Indian, Pakistani, Redskin and the list goes on and on
      People can be such dunces when the think they own other people, their land their sea their lives their decisions. Scots should take a good look at the kind of people who think like this

      With every word they speak, they speak the language of ownership, and that’s slavery, and these people apply it to all colours and all nations of folk

      The British Nationalist exceptionalists

    • Welsh Sion says:

      Only available in English. Obviously.

  22. Ken2 says:

    GCHQ. UK Gov controlled propaganda has ruined the world economy. Illegal surveillance. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Satellite systems owned by Gov. Since 1957. For illegal surveillance and warmongering. Killing people. They do not care.

    The UK Gov criminality kept secret under the Official Secrets Act ‘D’ Notices. A UK Gov right wing supported Press for personal gain. Non Dom tax evaders. Surveillance and corruption. Getting away with killing people. Leveson not implemented.

    The UK unionist Gov using illegal internet connection. Facebook, google services to illegally influence and win elections/Ref. Breaking electoral rules with impunity for personal gain. Tax evading for personal gain. Giving unscrutinised worthless contracts to associates. Wasting £Billions of public monies for personal gain. For illegal services rendered. Brexit shambles.

  23. Ken2 says:

    Without a free and fair Press there is no democracy. The Gov is supposed to ensure a free and fair Press. An abject failure. Gov owned and influenced BBC. Cost £5Billion Leader anointed. News influenced by UK Gov control.

    Thatcher gave over the British Press to Murdoch for right wing support for personal gain. Thatcher lied about it. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. It made Thatcher/Murdoch etc million/billionaires. Destroyed the world It killed people, The UK Press owned by tax evading non Doms. Influencing matters for personal gain. Better information on the internet. People exchanging information.

    Thatcher deregulated banking resulting in the banking crash causing poverty and pain. Worldwide. Cut leverage and collateral from 25% to 13%. Not enough reserves,

    The bankers fund the Tory Party for personal gain. Thatcher had interest rates at 17% and high unemployment. Took all Scotland’s revenues and resources to fund London S/E for votes.

    The Tories had to get rid of Thatcher for closer ties with the EU. To improve the UK economy. Deja Vu. The Brexit mess Johnston will be gone soon,

  24. Dr Jim says:

    I notice lots of folk this morning moaning about Alyn Smith over an article in the National and I don’t understand what they’re complaining about
    The job of the SNP is to get as many people talking about Independence as possible, he did that rather well
    Because a person writes something in a newspaper doesn’t make it a fact or even true, it’s there for a reason

    Unionists fill the newspapers up with clickbait all the time and we don’t believe any of that so why shouldn’t our side do the same to achieve what they want
    Whatever Alyn Smith writes is immaterial, it’s what it generates that counts

    • Cubby says:

      “Or even true”

      So Dr Jim you are saying it doesn’t matter if SNP MPs tell lies in the National. Sorry but that is something I cannot agree with. Sick of Britnats telling lies but you are now saying that it does not matter if we tell lies. An independence movement built on lies is just not right. An SNP MP telling lies just not acceptable to me.

      • Dr Jim says:

        All politicians use the media for advertising to sell their product and the media enjoy rewriting the text of those words for dramatic effect and clickbait, I believe Alyn Smith was doing his job of advertising the SNP by offering an opinion designed to sell dialogue, like they all do, if you expect the SNP not to use the medias style and approach to reporting then they would be left at a clear disadvantage

        Alyn Smith didn’t lie, but he didn’t assert what he said was a fact either as he is one person and not responsible for making policy so not accountable for his *opinion*, Pete Wishart does the same thing on a daily basis, the British Nationalists do lie because no one holds them to account for it, if the SNP tell actual lies then every newspaper and TV outlet the length and breadth of the UK would be all up in it because the SNP are the enemy of the British state

        I did not mention the word *lie* once in reference to the SNP so your usage of reductio ad absurdum for dramatic point making effect is not lying but it’s not telling the truth either about what I actually wrote, it’s a mischaracterisation

        • Cubby says:

          You said “or even true” not me. It’s in quotes because it is from your post.

          if something is not true then it is a lie.

      • Legerwood says:

        Cubby,
        What lies did Alyn Smith tell in his article? I have read it and it seemed pretty innocuous to me.

        • Dr Jim says:

          He didn’t lie, he offered his opinion which is perfectly reasonable, the complaints folk are making are that they didn’t want to read his opinion because it’s not what they want to hear, but what they’re not understanding is that when Alyn Smith or any rep states an opinion it doesn’t mean it’s a fact or policy or a promise of anything, it’s merely an opinion and we all have them, all he’s doing is keeping the sales pitch in the spotlight which is his job as a representative of the party

          There are too many folk desperate to leap onto anything a SNP rep says as though what they say is a portent of things to come regarding Independence, ordinary reps like members don’t know much more about what’s discussed in cabinet than anybody else, their job is whatever particular brief they hold within the party, there’s probably no more than four or five people who know what’s going to happen with Independence and they won’t talk

          The rest of us guess or hope, some criticise, some predict, but we’ll never know until we’re told and that’ll be by the FM if and when she’s ready, then we’ll either jump for joy moan or criticise all over again, until that time everything is just talk, I do hope it’s the jump for joy thing though

        • Cubby says:

          Legerwood, see my reply to DrJim above. His words not mine. Glad to see he has retracted his comment but sad to say that he is now saying I mischaracterised him.

  25. Ken2 says:

    Stop telling lies.

  26. Ken2 says:

    Most Westminster unionist politicians, economists, BBC and other journalists do not know how the Barnett Formula works. Designed to take revenues and resources from Scotland to fund London S/E for unionist votes at Westminster. They are ignorant and arrogant of democracy. They can’t count or read a balance sheet but believe Westminster unionist Gov propaganda.

    Scotland has to pay for things it does not need and does not have the revenues to to fund what it does need. It is decided by unrepresentative, unelected politicians elsewhere. Non Democratically.

    Scotland would be better of funds in reserves. If Westminster unionists did not operate illegally. Breaking every Law. Illegal wars, tax evasion, financial fraud etc have cost Scotland dear. Poor, bad Westminster unionist decisions. Foreign, economic and social.

    The failed banker out to defraud Scotland of funds. Yet Scotland has to pay back loans not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Unjust and unfair.

  27. Hamish100 says:

    When Alyn Smith writes an article I tend to turn the page and ignore. Other columnists I pay attention too.

  28. Ken2 says:

    Alan Smith argument is totally sensible. There is nothing controversial. Listen to the last podcast. Entirely similar. Legal advice. Both experience Lawyers. Explaining the position.

    Win the Holyrood election. Totally. The Tory/unionist in total array in the UK. The mess and shambles increasing. Their collapse is more than likely. Or some concession and conciliation for Scotland. More powers. Protecting the Scottish economy and caring for people.

    Support for SNP/Independence rising, GE within two+ years. The SNP hold the balance of power. Another IndyRef. Over whelming support. Or international appeal to the UN again. Go to Court.

    Westminster unionists will have to make concession. If people vote for it.

  29. Ken2 says:

    @ Podcast

    Andrew Tickell set out the same considerations. Both experienced Lawyers. Some dealings with Scottish/UK/EU/International Law.

    The UN commitment to self determination and self government. If people vote for it. The UK Gov/Courts must uphold UN/International Law. Or be taken to UN Courts, By a Scottish consortium of representation. An Assembly.

    An conventional assembly was used before to achieve much delayed Devolution. People support Devolution as a success and will increasingly support Home Rule/Independence. People like to chose their own way forward as a democratic right.

  30. Bob Lamont says:

    A good balanced article…
    I’ve spent 20 years of my life working from within the EU27 (after leaving the increasingly oddball 28th), but despite fears I held after what Thatcher did to Scotland, it is as nothing to my terror as to it’s fate is under this particular evolution, evolved as in sneakier and better organised greedy bar-stewards with a massive propaganda machine turned on it’s own people.

    What form Scotland’s relationship with the EU or the World takes is for the people to decide after independence is achieved but getting there is our first step and there will be many helping if unseen hands. Forget the “you’ve only got 6 months” brigade, in nation terms it is but a blip.
    We cannot save England from it’s abusive Tory love-affair, we tried Labour until they were mesmerised by money and power and became much the same, now we have to do this ourselves and throw them a lifeline later, considerable support will be required to wean off that particular drug.

    We will increasingly be drowned in whataboutery assisted by media and the SiU writers guild, but Covid or no Covid, it’s time to mute them and think who has the power, then look in the mirror.
    Scotland’s people are sovereign.

  31. Derek Mair says:

    The trouble I have with this article and some of the comments is this. Giving us membership is not the “EU’s” to give it never has been, That will be up to all member states to agree to and we have already been told from several corners what that entails, following the constitutional norms of breaking up the union. Even then there is risk attached that one country in the EU doesn’t offer us diplomatic recognition so then all bets are off.
    If we are being honest with ourselves it’s important to be realistic about joining the EEA (either through EFTA or the EU) and how that reality is attached to a section 30 order..The EU cannot just wave a wand and make us members if even a single other member state disagrees. Unless the veto on new members is removed from the EU accession process..

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s