Flying kites

The news today in the Scottish press is dominated by Stu Campell’s proposal for a new pro-independence party. Apparently the musings of a pro-indy blogger are the most important thing to happen in Scotland today. Well who knew? Perhaps the BBC might even start interviewing pro-indy bloggers now. Or maybe not.

The first I knew about this idea was when it was published in his interview with Kenny Farquharson in The Times. As far as I am aware it’s not a concrete proposal, but more a solo kite flying exercise on Stu’s part. It’s simply an idea he has thrown out there for discussion.

Yet even as a kite flying exercise, the proposal has of course produced the entirely predictable slew of headlines in the anti-independence press about splits in the Yes movement. Because a half-articulated notion – it’s not even well formed enough to count as a plan – from a single politics blogger is far more important than the melt-down in the Labour party, the irrelevance into which Ruth Davidson’s Vote Ruth Davidson For More Ruth Davidson Party has been consigned by Boris Johnson, or the ever increasing mutual contempt which characterises the relationship between Scotland and the Conservative Government. So just today in the Herald we have a Tom Gordon hit job story entitled Wings over Scotland blogger attacks SNP and Greens in Yes movement split, and the anti-independence columnist Mark Smith opining How a Wings Over Scotland party could turn Yes to No. Meanwhile over in The Scotsman we have Wings Over Scotland: New pro-independence party could challenge ‘far left’ Scottish Greens.

Unfortunately this chorus line of headlines is not an indication of the true political influence of Stu Campbell, it’s more an indication of the desperation of the overwhelmingly anti-independence media in Scotland to find a distraction from the mess into which the UK has got itself, and the growing attraction of independence amongst Scottish voters as their disenchantment with Westminster grows. All that has happened here in practical terms is that the Scottish press has seized an opportunity to depict the Yes movement as being riven by division and dissent, precisely at the time when the real news story is death of Labour in Scotland, the impending doom of Brexit, and machinations within the Conservative party in Westminster to frustrate their own government. It’s a perfect example of “Oh look a squirrel.” It’s entirely predictable that the Scottish press would have reacted in this manner.

So here we are, discussing Stu Campbell’s proposal for a new party, and not the implosion of the Labour party in Scotland and with it any political force which can claim to both oppose the Tories and independence. That’s a hugely significant development, but we’ve been distracted from it.

Apparently some people have been suggesting my name as a possible candidate for this new party. Well sorry, but no. That’s not going to happen. It’s not going to happen because I would rather poke my eyes out with rusty knitting needles than stand for election for any party, whether that’s Stu’s proposed Wings party, the SNP, the Greens, or the Vote Wee Ginger Dug For More Clapping Of Dugs Party. There’s a reason I didn’t join the SNP in 2014 in the aftermath of the independence referendum, and that reason is because I don’t think it’s healthy for someone whose job is writing commentary and opinion to be tied to the manifesto of a particular political party – irrespective of what that party is.

In any event, this idea for a putative new party is premature. In that assessment I agree with James Kelly of Scot Goes Pop. We are nowhere near needing to set up a new political party for Yes voters. That’s a decision which doesn’t have to be taken until other avenues to an independence referendum have been exhausted. There’s still quite a road to travel there. Yes, I understand the frustration with the caution and small-c conservatism of the SNP leadership. They are frustrations which I share. But I believe that the way to counter them is to redouble our efforts to campaign, to persuade, to spread information, and to demonstrate the strength of pro-independence feeling on the ground. It’s only by doing so that we can provide the SNP leadership with the political confidence it needs to press ahead with demands for a referendum.

It could certainly be argued that the recent opinion poll showing majority support for independence is a vindication of the ‘steady as she goes’ strategy of Nicola Sturgeon.  It was always expected that Brexit and a Boris Johnson government would produce a boost in support for independence in Scotland.  Only one of those events has actually come to pass.  It is entirely likely that when Brexit does happen, there will be a further boost in support for independence in the polls.  A series of opinion polls showing increasing support for independence and demand for a referendum will make the current refusal of the anti-independence parties to countenance a referendum politically untenable.

The current SNP plan is to hold an independence referendum in 2020. That’s the preference of Nicola Sturgeon, and over the weekend deputy leader Keith Brown announced that the party plans to ramp up its preparations for a referendum.  If that referendum does indeed come to pass, then any plans for a new Yes party in 2021 are entirely moot. While the Westminster parties are united in their refusal to concede another independence referendum at the moment, denying the mandate that the Scottish Government currently possesses and denying that the Scottish Parliament has already voted in favour of another referendum, that refusal may not be able to survive the political fallout from a snap Westminster election in which the SNP perform strongly and increase the number of Westminster seats that they hold.

This is especially the case if a snap General Election produces a minority government with the SNP holding the balance of power. Either the Labour party may seek a confidence and supply deal with the SNP in return for a Section 30 order, or a minority Boris Johnson administration may agree to a Section 30 order as a way of getting rid of those troublesome Scots and increasing his majority in Westminster. Those are just two possible scenarios. There is also the political reality that a strong showing from the SNP in that election will destroy the arguments currently deployed against a referendum by the anti-independence parties, and increase the pressure on them to respect the democratic will of the people of Scotland.

There’s no guarantee that the election is going to take place of course, but all observers agree that it’s looking increasingly likely. Just today, Monday, the Guardian is reporting that a group of rebel Tory MPs, including former Chancellor Philip Hammond, are planning a move in the second week of September in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit. If they are successful, Boris Johnson will have no choice but to call an election in order to change parliamentary arithmetic so that he can get his way.

It is this early UK general election which Yes campaigners ought to be focussing on just now, not the elections of 2021. In that UK general election – sorry Greens – it’s going to be the SNP which is the only pro-independence party which has any chance at all of getting seats. That’s the nature of the first past the post system so beloved of Westminster. So we need to concentrate our efforts on ensuring that we maximise the SNP vote in the elections which are most likely to come first. That should be our current priority, not thinking about setting up a new party.

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53 comments on “Flying kites

  1. Movy says:

    As I posted elsewhere, I think it’s an interesting idea and if it gets the SNP to move on NOW then not necessarily a bad thing!
    But it is only an idea and I see Stu himself was talking about 2021 by which time I hope it’ll be redundant because we’re off!
    On a related matter, if you do front a Vote Wee Ginger Dug for more Clapping of Dugs party, I will give it very serious consideration!!!

    • Tol says:

      …”Stu himself was talking about 2021″…

      I read this as Stu’s “Plan B”.

      I have a question – If the SNP can’t/won’t achieve Indy in the wake of: Brexit, a mandate, and a vote in Scot parliament…Can you still say the SNP is a vehicle for Indy if nothing has happened by 2021? It’s up to the SNP to act.

      Hasn’t it always been that when the SNP fail to fill a void, others in YES have always stepped in. From the outside, it looks like the SNP has been quite happy to have others run the public rebuttal of Union smears and media…it stopped them getting their hands dirty. People can’t be surprised when the SNP leaves a void that others will step in.

    • D J BRACKENBURY says:

      Vote dug for the re-tailing of dugs would definitely get my vote!

  2. Molly McC says:

    Paul, I agree with absolutely every word! Well said, well stated.
    No rifts, no “Clan” divisions.
    Focus on the prize, Scottish Independence.
    At the moment that’s all that matters.

  3. Douglas says:

    Thanks Paul,

    I don’t think this is something that Stuart wants to do but would do if the SNP don’t use the mandates (pleural) before 2021.

    This makes it very difficult for the SNP leadership to let things drift to the next Holyrood election.

    It clearly makes them uncomfortable, their response through a spokesperson was a lightning fast affirmation of the plan for a vote before 2021.

    All of the many ‘use the mandates’ voices have been told ‘don’t worry, we need to wait until Brexit is clear’, many feel frustrated and some feel ignored.

    … but this is not being ignored.

    Job done (for now); hopefully there will be no need to create a new party.

  4. Liz g says:

    I’d argue the opposite Paul!
    We do need to be thinking of the 2021 Holyrood elections.
    Yes Stu putting the implosion of Labour off the front pages was indeed unfortunate timing.
    But this anticipated General Election hasn’t yet been called and we all already know how important it will be to put all our efforts into it when it is.
    That doesn’t mean we can’t think ahead too.

    In theory by the time of the 2021 Holyrood elections Scotland will have had the Referendum and voted Yes,but we will not have ended the Union and probably not have done anything to alter the voting system imposed on Holyrood.
    There is a danger that the Unionist Party’s could attempt to reverse the vote if they managed to get power.
    There is also the details of Independence to negotiate and we saw how the so called Scottish parties sold us out in the Smith Commission.
    We will be trying to Write our Constitution and don’t need the Monarchy entrenched in it.
    We also don’t need to be handing over a large chunk of the West coast of Scotland to become England’s Sovereign territory for their Neuks.
    We pretty much need most of Holyrood pulling in Scotland’s interests not Westminster’s.

    This current list system is,I think, the most straightforward way of ensuring that we can get our vote to properly reflect our intent,but it will take another party as the greens don’t seem to be able to pull it of.

    Tis a wee shame that you wouldn’t be interested because your name is being suggested because people trust that you are in it for Scotland,and are nobodies fool or in anybody’s pocket ( Ginger excepted of course )
    I dread the thickos that the British Nationalists parties stick us with on that bloody list and the thought of some of them negotiating Scotland’s assets and liabilities is chilling.
    I bet I don’t even need to name them you’ve a half dozen in your head before you read to the end of this sentence!!!

    • ‘Half a dozen’, Liz g?
      I can think of four dozen fellow travellers on the Brit Nat Lists who have the combined intellect of the bluebottle trying to escape by bashing its head against the window pane in my dining room right now.
      Well said. We must prepare for all eventualities.
      Over on the Dead Tree Scrolls the BTL Zoomers are demanding a confirmatory vote on the terms when we vote YES the next time.
      No Nukes, no privatisation, no fucking grouse shooting, stag hunting, and Lords ‘lording it’ over us.
      Can’t wait to restart Scotland the Nation.
      Once Independence is a reality, any former Brit Nat politician who consorts with England, a foreign power, and sides with them in the divorce settlement will be accused of all sorts of things, which Paul’s system automatically edits out on this excellent measured site.
      You recall Iain Davidson ‘threatening’ that BAE would put a codicil in the Frigate contracts which would move production from Scotstoun/Govan/ Rosyth to Portsmouth if we voted YES.
      He was backing England against his own constituents.
      Well, he paid the price, as one of the ‘f*cking useless’ 40 Red Tories who lost their seats in 2015.
      Remember Liar Carmichael visiting Portsmouth and declaring that they would be ‘best placed’ to build the Frigates if Scotland voted YES.
      These men are unspeakable sell outs.
      Carmichael is still waddling about up in Orkney, a safe wee Lib Dem backwater.
      The best form of defence Next Time is attack, attack, attack.
      IT is up to the crumbling Better Together vanguard to justify staying shackled to Suicidal Right Wing England.
      I’ll tell you one thing; Brown will not sneak into Clydebank Town Hall the next time.
      we’ll be out in force.
      I shall be on the shore in Gareloch as these vile diabolical boats leave Scottish waters for the last time, cheering my socks off.
      We are taking our country back, big time.

  5. I listened to Stu Campbell’s interview with KF, which was a conversation about nothing of note, but KF latched gleefully on to the notion that a WoS Party might stand in the regional seats in 2021.
    Well, Farquerson (spelling?) knows that there will be Indyref 2 in 2020, and so does Campbell.
    It was a badly judged wind up which gave the Tom Gordons of the Yoon world something to lie about, and earn their Fifth Column bonus for the month.
    When I whimsically suggested a New Scottish Labour Party for Independent Scotland, I mooted that it was now time for the remnants of Labour in Scotland to break away from London Rule entirely, and put the work into forming a truly Scottish labour Party, to contest elections in an Independent Scotland from the get go.
    likewise Blue and Beige Tories for Independence.
    There will be an Independence plebiscite in 2020, come Brexit, No Deal, or even revocation of article 50.
    We are out of their Union now.
    Jeez, KR was asking Campbell what music he was listening to, and what was his bedside read.
    He tried to put words into Stu’s mouth, but that didn’t work.
    So he fabricates a New Party notion, and his pals in the Dead Tree Scrolls take it from there.
    I confidently predict that there will be no 2021 SGE.
    We’ll be independent by then.

    • ‘Farquharson’.. just looked it up.
      Thank the Chief my second name isn’t difficult to spell.

    • Karen Ann Donald says:

      I listened to the interview too. Bit boring actually. And I agree with you. It was a musing. A thought. And it was jumped on. The Times twisted it. And everyone went to town on it. I think it’s a good idea. But hope we won’t have to do that because we will already be Independent.

  6. And in other news..I look forward to international Socialist Paul Sweeney’s Tweet praising the SNP for proposing to take Ferguson Marine into Public Ownership, securing the future of the workforce.
    Or is he too busy congratulating BAE for taking Frigate work from Scotland and giving it to Australia and Canada.
    This rather shallow lad’s time in politics must be severely limited.
    They will be reminded of the lies and threats of Project Fear during the next campaign.
    Let’s rerun Mags Curran’s victory jig, for starters.

    • Saor Alba says:

      On the ball as usual Jack.
      I always feel much better when I read one of your discourses.

    • Legerwood says:

      Jack Collatin,

      Mr Sweeney has an article in The Herald today about Ferguson Marine. Read it twice…SNP Bad

      • now there’s a surprise, L.
        I Haven’t looked at the ins and outs of the Ferguson Marine debacle.
        As I often observe, I am not a member of the SNP, and don’t subscribe to the notion that NS walks on water.
        However, my dig at Paul Sweeney is apposite.
        Especially since he was involved in the BAE betrayal of Govan, Scotstoun, and Rosyth.
        An international socialist, he is not.
        He is a Brit Nat in the pay of his English Masters.
        I tend not to dip in to the online Dead Tree Scrolls these days.
        I resent perpetuating their very existence.

  7. JGedd says:

    I agree that the timing of this was ” unfortunate” and has the usual suspects at each end of the political spectrum pinging in different directions off the wall in varying degrees of excitement or outrage. However, despite the consensus take that this was a strike against the SNP, Stuart Campbell insisted that such a party would simply contest the list vote as an indy-supporting party to maximise the number of list seats for independence.

    Presumably an indy referendum held before 2021 would render this boosting of the independence representation unnecessary? Though stiffening the resolve of the SNP government by having a less obedient cadre of independence supporters in Holyrood eventually would be interesting to say the least and might concentrate certain minds wonderfully.

    Anyway, the d’Hondt system is devilish as it was meant to be so I shall be mulling it over and taking counsel from wiser heads than mine – even if one’s a Dug’s!

    • Saor Alba says:

      Exactly so.

    • Tol says:

      Timing….How it took oxygen from Union troubles is a canard.

      Its naive to think that the Union press would ever seriously cover the issues befalling Union parties in Scotland so as to inflict real damage…Heck the lack of Union press pursuing Ruth is LEGENDARY. In reality, weather it is Ruth or Labour imploding or exploding or even evaporating is rainbows – Richard and Ruth are just the current figure heads of an almost Hydra-headed beast. Richard is no different to when Iain Gray, Johann Lamont, Jackie Baillie or Kecia Dugdale sunk to new levels…In reality it did not bring Indy and has not overly helped the SNP.

      If you think Wings is a fool then sure this was just loose talk….That’s a big call. If Stu is serious then his timing of announcement is critical…and the window is actually quite small.

      – It has to be well before any election because too close and Union press would starve it of oxygen or the overwhelming negative spin would kill it.
      – It has to have sufficient seed time – to get the word out
      – It needs time to calm the waters so people know exactly what a List party is and how it works

      Just think about how long a lead time there is for him and the risks. Sure Union press didn’t care how batshite crazy any Brexit Party candidate was….but a Wings Party candidate. OMG the press will go rabid. It would make the Michelle Thomson media frenzy look like a picnic.

      • JGedd says:

        Did I say Stuart Campbell was a fool? I don’t see how you could interpret my comment as saying that. For the record then, I certainly don’t think that and have respect for his analyses and cogent observations of the political scene, as I have for some others, including our host.

        My comment about “unfortunate” using inverted comments was meant to convey my ambivalence about timing, not personal criticism. In other words, personally, I’m inclined to be cautious and reserve my judgement, but that’s just me. I always distrust any inclination of mine to rush to a decision. Again that’s just me. However, this may well play out differently from what many people have been assuming.

        I believe Stuart Campbell himself has said that indyref 2 occurring sooner rather than later might change plans for another independence party to try to gain list votes. That might even be his intention – to deliver a kick to a stalled enterprise. But I don’t know. I’m in awe of people who can predict so confidently likely outcomes. I am less certain of my ability to second guess the future.

        I am not antagonistic to his suggestion, just waiting for circumstances to reveal whether his idea should fly. But that’s just me again. It’s why Stuart Campbell is a poker player and I never even win at Monopoly. ( No, really, it’s a joke in our family that every one else can be nearly round a board and I hadn’t even thrown a six to start yet!) I am studying carefully what Stuart Campbell and others have to say about the d’Hondt system and its workings. I am interested but don’t feel the need yet to declare any commitment. Lots of possibilities are still in play.

  8. Diane Doig says:

    Message at the last SG elections was both votes SNP so as not to split the pro Indy vote. This didn’t happen as people were convinced if they voted SNP with their FPTP vote and for another pro Indy party with their list vote it would increase the pro Indy majority. It was a dangerous game to play with the SNP losing several list seats by a couple of hundred votes and thereby losing their overall majority. With any luck we won’t need to wait til 2021 but I do wonder if Stu is up to a bit of mischief….

  9. A C Bruce says:

    I think of it as Stuart’s Well-aimed Rocket!

    It remains to be seen how effective it will be in the longer term.

  10. Billy Watt says:

    Out of curiousity, where would I get a membership form for the Vote Wee Ginger Dug For More Clapping Of Dugs Party ?

    • Tol says:

      If WGD ever gets the urge to go into Politics then Scotland would be lucky.

      However, I hope he doesn’t. It is a brutal occupation and the rigours of being on the inside would–by necessity–constrain him. Some are best on the inside…others are suited to be on the outside keeping us (and them) honest.

      To me, WGD is part of the soul of YES…he makes me realise Indy is about the dignity of and for Scottish people.

  11. Macart says:

    Only caught up with this last night after I got back. Unsurprised at the meeja take right enough.

    Onywise… There’s a long road before the next Holyrood elections and a lot of slurry to be found in Westminster politics in the meantime. Not to mention the odd twist and turn on the electoral front.

    Worth a thought for peeps like, but the meeja and their chaintuggers have been trying to drive wedges into the YES movement for quite some time. Might be that the only folk who benefit from friends having a bit of a ‘look over here, not over there’ moment are…?

    There’s a lot of frustrated people out there. There’s a lot of nervous and even scared people out there. People heartsick at the carnage brought about by Westminster’s political class.

    When talking to each other? Remember who the real bad guys are and what the YES movement is all about. We’re friends.

    All parties and no parties isn’t a serving suggestion.

    • Johnson is a heart attack, an expenses scandal, or another incident in the Members’ Bar away from losing his majority.
      It won’t be long now, Yeah!
      …to quote the Beatles.
      We are about to come to the end of the Long and Winding Road.

      • Macart says:

        And perhaps not even those examples. Westminster’s political class can’t help but be what they are.

        Their choice (shrug).

        They’ve cultivated societal division in pursuit of a vote for so long, they apparently didn’t notice the damage they’d done to social cohesion until it jumped up and bit them on the bum. They’ve undermined trust in pretty much … everything really.

        In short? What they’ve broken, they are simply incapable of putting back together again.

  12. Millsy says:

    Farquarson , Gordon et al …who reads them anyway ? More people read the graffiti on toilet walls than these weasel-mouthed comic-book writers . And the graffiti is more truthful !

  13. Angry Weegie says:

    If I had a pound (used to be a penny, I know, but that’s inflation) for every article I’ve read with a paragraph starting “the SNP holding the balance of power”, I would be the proverbial rich man. I suppose it might happen one day.

  14. Craig P says:

    I’m with James Kelly too. It’s interesting that no matter how much the concept is explained, there are people who believe that, without knowing the result of the constituency vote in advance, multiple independence parties will definitely increase electoral representation.

    The lack of movement from the SNP on independence has been filled by people for whom independence isn’t their priority, but when the UK government and Labour party are making such massive mistakes, the sensible thing is to let them get on with it. I don’t think the time for the SNP to take action is far away though.

  15. Bob Lamont says:

    Excellent summation and astutely observed “…it’s more an indication of the desperation of the overwhelmingly anti-independence media in Scotland to find a distraction from the mess into which the UK has got itself, and the growing attraction of independence amongst Scottish voters as their disenchantment with Westminster grows”. An idea or thought does not make news however intriguing, but after hospital demolition for alleged faulty drainage featured so strongly in Scottish media, common sense is not their forte.
    An imminent GE is inevitable, where Mirage’s ToryMk2 figure in Team Johnson’s tactics is anybody’s guess, but unseating Tory rebels will most likely feature.
    It may suit Johnson politically to dump Scotland, but the colossal financial damage in their post Brexit utopia could be fatal for London.
    For Scotland a SNP landslide over Indy2 renders objection to a Section 30 indefensible at home and abroad, as well as colliding with the “subsidy junkie” myth they so cleverly salted among their members previously. The dissatisfaction with the status quo is mutual, so it’s all over bar the campaigning and voting…

    • Bob, Farquharson attempted to reduce the independence Cause to a straight fight between Leavers and Remainers during his stilted rambling ‘interview’ with Stuart Campbell.
      It is prospect of the Boris Johnson Bogey Man which is tilting the citizens of Scotland towards opting for Independence, the Hobson’s Choice, the best of two bad alternatives?
      Aye, right.

      They’d love that.
      Forget the democratic deficit, the broken promises of the Vow, Faslane, 9 years of Red and Beige Tory Austerity, food banks, zero hour wages, the Rape Clause, the Chinese style Two Child Cap, Priti Patel, Esther McVey, Michael Gove, the Power Grab….

      The ‘material change’, being dragged out of the biggest Trade Bloc in the Free World against the express wishes of the citizens of Scotland by a Far Right Blue Tory Government for which we , yet again, did not vote, merely serves to ram home the message that it is vital that Scotland reasserts its place in the world, as an Independent forward looking nation, a Government of the Scottish people, elected by the citizens of Scotland, serving the People, and accountable to the Scottish electorate.
      We are a militarily occupied colony of England even more so now that the English are about to pull up the drawbridge slam down the portcullis at Dover, and open up England and Wales to Health Privatisation, destroy farming and agriculture, and embrace Trump’s Totalitarian US as the 51st State of Fascist America.
      We have no option, triue enough.
      But it is not a binary question; UK or EU.
      The evil of WM domination must be broken.
      Thereafter it is up to Scotland what relationship we have with the rest of the world, and imminently, our continuing membership of the EU.
      It’s all gone quiet over there in the Brit Nat Branch Office HQs.
      Has Redmond Lemvic resigned yet?
      Is Wee Willie Winkie still hiding in England?
      Has Davidson dried her eyes yet and backed Boris?

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Agreed Jack, but we should not forget the iniquities of WM rule are coming home to roost across the entirety of the UK, but only Scotland and NI have an escape route if they choose (or feel compelled). Some of the English press are increasingly supportive recently on the Scottish question (aside the Daily Shite variety), so the Scottish Unionist media are finding themselves increasingly at odds with their English counterparts, the choir’s voices are breaking.
      The current bluster and propaganda will undoubtedly get more bizarre under Johnson and Cummings/etc, and Scottish media will amplify it a hundredfold, their problem is the Scots seem less amenable to the bullshit (Brexit etc), and Johnson was always that annoying piece of shit you’re unable to flick, scrape, or otherwise remove from your shoe, and stinks long afterward. This is the hero of English Nationalism with his understudy Mirage waiting in the wings for the first fluff, few Scots look at this with anything but horror…
      Yet first consider their outlets – TV licensing in Scotland is the lowest in the UK from recent figures, even the reach of the Scottish press beyond print sales is impossible to pin down in terms of effect, and that scares the hell out of London, as they have to guess what propaganda is working, and the WoS one blew up like a sparkler, lots of visuals but no bangs.
      The Union which never was is a house of cards one sneeze will dismantle, but make no mistake, they will fight tooth and nail to prevent it’s demise because their heart (aka wallet) is in it..

      • Indeed, Bob. It may be argued that the Scottish Government and SNP contingent at WM have done their darnedest to save the English from themselves on Brexit;
        there are many comments from the South to reflect this.
        But we can only go so far, wait so long, before we launch the escape pod and leave England and Wales to their own severely limited devices.
        As the summer grinds to a close, and sun screen and Bermuda shorts packed away for another year, many in England will come to realise that it might be their last hols on the Continent for a long long time.
        I have the impression that we Scots citizens are champing at the bit for action.

      • Bob Lamont says:

        Champing at the bit cheered on by English supporters in sympathy, blue-rinses in full blown rejection/denial mode, and the Cummings/Crosby manipulators powerless to correct/affect it, the perfect storm… 😉

  16. Petra says:

    ”So we need to concentrate our efforts on ensuring that we maximise the SNP vote in the elections which are most likely to come first.”

    As I’ve said already, elsewhere, Stu Campbell is the last person that we need to be fronting a new political party in Scotland, due to the MSM making a meal of his many Twitter ”comments”. You know like you have to be Nicola Sturgeon squeaky clean to keep the hounds at bay and generate support from the general public.

    I also wonder how this ”maximising the SNP vote” is going to work when Wings (led by Stu Campbell) is increasing becoming an anti-Nicola Sturgeon / SNP site? One, imo, which will no doubt go into overdrive in the months to come.

    The idea of targeting the list votes has been broached on Wings previously by a number of people and looks as though it could make for a constructive approach to gaining more pro-Independence seats …maybe? If that’s the case, constructive, Stu Campbell should consider stepping down and affording someone else, say like Professor John Robertson, the opportunity to lead the venture.

    Stu, on the other hand, should stick to doing what he does best of all and that is outing Unionist supporting politicians and journalists. In saying that, we haven’t seen much of that lately either as the site seems to have become more of a Stu Campbell …”Me, Me, Me” … site with one article after another relating to promoting himself. In other words it ain’t like what it used to be. I wonder why?

    • mogabee says:

      It’s thanks to Stu that women are finally realising that the SNP’s insane plan for GRA would be challenging the safe spaces that we take for granted.

      Me Me Me it certainly aint and I’m backing his proposed plan with gusto. If the SNP falter in giving us the choice before the 2021 elections then a Wings party will be essential to get rid of unionist seat warmers.

      Why anyone thinks that’s not a great thought beats me…

    • Millsy says:

      Methinks you have an axe to grind , Petra . I don’t recognise the WOS that you describe . Without Stu Campbell , warts and all , it would never have been so successful . It is still , by far , the best debunking blog for unionist lies and distortions . Closely followed , and more eruditely , by Paul and the Dug !

      • Petra says:

        I don’t have an axe to grind at all Millsy. What axe would I have to grind? I was kicked off of the Wings site because I had been critical of some of Stu’s ideas / behaviour, such as his latest venture. Not the actual venture as such, but Stu fronting it. “Warts and all” is fine whilst the person is running a blog. Running a political party is something else, imo.

        I posted on Wings practically every day for years. I loved the site and actually got fond of many of the posters. I also reckoned that Stu Campbell was doing a fantastic job outing Unionist journalists and politicians, but to my mind things changed recently such as Stu’s attitude towards Nicola Sturgeon / the SNP, whereby he became quite vitriolic towards her. There’s been less and less of the ‘debunking’ of others and more and more articles relating to himself. He couldn’t even let us all, including Nicola Sturgeon, revel in last weeks news without throwing a spanner in the works. Couldn’t his news have waited for a couple of weeks?

        The site’s changed too with many clearly anti-Independence individuals appearing on the scene as many genuine Independence supporters seem to have left / disappeared, which leaves me wondering how many of them have been banned, as its never announced (nor do you receive an email). I read recently that Yesindyref2 had been banned and that other individuals are being blocked if they don’t agree with Stu. A powerful position to be in. I’m concerned about other issues too, which I won’t go into on here. Anyway best wishes to you Millsy and of course others who post on Wings (and here).

        • Amber says:

          I agree with Petra’s points, and have always enjoyed her, and Nana’s, posts on Wings. It feels much less comfortable there for women than in the past, due to the tenor of the discussion and the hostility to Nicola Sturgeon. Wings has been hugely important in shaping the Indy debate but this new intervention feels badly thought through. Efforts need to be directed to persuading soft yeses and soft noes of the need for Indy, not debating finer points of theology. I detect a real appetite for change amongst my colleagues who voted no last time. Let’s not lose the plot at the 11th hour

        • A C Bruce says:

          If you’ve been kicked off the WoS site, it’s because you were so negative and critical of the blog’s owner and just about everyone else who contributed below the line.

          To you, everyone was the enemy, everyone was anti-Independence except you and a small group you approved of. There are ways of saying you don’t agree with someone’s point of view; attempted assassination of Stuart Campbell’s character was not one of them.

          You’re now on this website displaying your toxic attitude towards him here. What’s your game? It’s very unhealthy.

          • Petra says:

            I’ll ignore your ”negative and critical” comments about me, A C Bruce, rather let’s just say that I don’t agree with you. What I would say is this, if I can’t post on Wings should I just fade away and not post anywhere else at all? Say nought? No one has to say anything critical / negative about Stu Campbell? That’s the Mr Campbell who’s made a lucrative living solely through being hyper-critical of hundreds of people.

            As to an attempted assassination of Stu’s character, well if that relates to my post on ‘Running the Numbers (at 3:21pm .. following which I was banned) I reckon that I was telling the truth, as I saw it. And just to add, I would posit that Stu’s done an amazing job of assassinating his own character, between one thing and another, over time to the point that nothing that I say about him now will make much of an impact.

            Seems that everything was hunky-dory on Wings as long as I was making suggestions, such as ”why don’t we fund-raise to buy Stu a home in Scotland .. send him on a holiday, for all of the good work that he has done”, etc, etc, but as soon as you show signs of no longer being part of his narcissistic supply, not agreeing with him, you know all about it.

        • RevStu says:

          “I don’t have an axe to grind at all Millsy. What axe would I have to grind? I was kicked off of the Wings site because I had been critical of some of Stu’s ideas / behaviour, such as his latest venture. Not the actual venture as such, but Stu fronting it.”

          No, you were kicked off because I grew tired of every single post you made being a tirade of abuse, ever since I gave you a row for ignoring comment rules that have been explained to you about 500 times.

          • Petra says:

            ”No, you were kicked off because I grew tired of every single post you made being a tirade of abuse.”

            Every single post? Now you know that that’s totally untrue Stu, an out and out LIE, and so will any other longtime Wings poster reading your comment. MOST of my posts, over many years, related to posting data and so on. What you didn’t like was me being critical of you more recently, such in relation to Nana Smith’s links and your latest idea … you fronting a political party. Seems that you’re extremely good at dishing it out, but can’t take it and then wield that your power of yours .. scary. If things keep going as they are Wings will come across as being a cult, individuals following someone who won’t put up with criticism to the point of blocking comments / kicking people off of the site.

            ”since I gave you a row for ignoring comment rules that have been explained to you about 500 times.”

            Another highly exaggerated lie. As far as I can remember you pointed out, on one occasion, that I shouldn’t keep trying to repost comments which weren’t appearing on the site. I didn’t realise that this was creating additional work for you, not knowing what goes on behind the scenes, apologised to you and refrained from doing so thereafter. I can’t think of any other occasions where I ”ignored comment rules” and was given a ”row”, so to err on the side of caution let’s say that you ”gave me a row” on up to three occasions over many years. How does that equate to 500?

            Maybe it’s ”stuff’ like this that has made me question your suitability to lead any political party.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      You guys want to have a pissing contest, with all due respect, this is not the place. We are discussing Scotland’s possible/probable future and attempting some degree of intelligent debate… The above does not even approach it, HELLO…

      • Petra says:

        ”Not the place.” True Bob. I’ll make that my last comment in relation to this non relevant ”subject”. Apologies folks / Paul.

      • Petra says:

        Well my last response to you didn’t appear Bob! Just to say you’re correct. Last post from me on this non-relevant ”subject”. Apologies Paul / folks.

  17. Brian Powell says:

    On the back of this a Unionist group could set up a party with the appropriate name and stand in the election, not to win seats but to divert as many votes as possible in a vulnerable seat so that the SNP lose their chance of keeping that MSP or MP.
    Losing a few thousands of £s would be worth it for them if it lost the SNP its majority in Holyrood.

    • Robert Graham says:

      Oh f/k look on the bright side , a real ray of bleedn sunshine you are eh .

      It’s a idea , not a plan , read the Times Article on Wings its pretty clear .

  18. D J BRACKENBURY says:

    I don’t think this will do any harm at all, there is the old adage that no publicity is bad publicity. Getting your name in front of the public is what matters, even if the information is totally wrong. There was a time when the msm could rely on out of sight out of mind when it came to the SNP – no longer. Whoo-hoo!!

  19. Robert Graham says:

    Oh dear dear so many negative waves in the comments above,

    It’s amazing how a throw away line gets so many folks in a real tizzy.

    What was it that Tommy Sheppard said I will remind a few folk if they don’t know ,

    We are here to Settle up Not to Settle In ,
    if this gets the SNP management off their collective arses , Job Done , this is from a longstanding member.

  20. morvenm2014 says:

    “…we can provide the SNP leadership with the political confidence it needs to press ahead with demands for a referendum”

    Jings, what a comment to have to make. I thought leaders were supposed to lead.

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