Wee Ginger Dugcast with Elaine C Smith


Elaine C Smith, Paul Kavanagh, and Ginger the Wee Ginger Dug himself in The National’s office in Glasgow.

Welcome to the 10 May edition of the Wee Ginger Dugcast where Callum and I are chatting with our very special guest, Elaine C Smith. We talk about Voices for Scotland, Elaine’s own journey to Yes, and much more besides.

newbook My new book has just been published by Vagabond Voices. Containing the best articles from The National from 2016 to date. Weighing in at over 350 pages, this is the biggest and best anthology of Wee Gingerisms yet. This collection of pieces covers the increasingly demented Brexit years, and the continuing presence and strength of Scotland’s independence movement.

You can order the book directly from the publisher. Ordering directly means that postage is free, and for the next ten days Vagabond Voices are doing a special offer, giving you two pounds off the cover price. You can order here –

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23 comments on “Wee Ginger Dugcast with Elaine C Smith

  1. […] Wee Ginger Dug Wee Ginger Dugcast with Elaine C Smith Elaine C Smith, Paul Kavanagh, and Ginger the Wee Ginger Dug himself in The […]

  2. Gordie says:

    Great Dug cast. Heartened by it.

  3. Alba woman says:

    Thoroughly enjoyed the podcast….great to listen to all that experience, enthusiasm and pure determination. Thank you all.

  4. Millsy says:

    Learned a lot about the push for independence – some of which was very surprising .
    Was a bit dubious about this initiative but after hearing Elaine C Smith’s enthusiastic recounting of what they have done ( and are planning ) I am really heartened .
    Onward and upward !

  5. margaret todd says:

    Excellent podcast, Elaine is so inspiring and always sounds so chirpy, a pleasure to listen to. Thank you

    Just caught up with the comments from the Value of Emotion to those losing heart I would ask the following

    Is This What You Want

    Dae ye want tae gang back tae the days in the street
    Whaur the weans wir aye hungry an ran in bare feet
    Whaur yer Granny when auld in this land o’ the brave
    Is described as a pauper as she’s laid in her grave

    Is this whit ye want?

    Dae ye want when yer sick, tae choose whit tae buy
    Is it pills for yer pain or milk fae the kye
    Oor free education, well that will be lost
    Again the poorest will suffer, because o’ the cost

    Is this whit ye want?

    Dae ye want when the nukes sail aff doon the Clyde
    Tae ken if they’re fired there’s nae place tae hide
    If yer on top o’ the Ben or doon at the coast
    We’ll be in it the gither, like an overdone roast

    Is this whit ye want?

    The answer is simple, the answer is clear
    Jist throw off the cringe and lose a’ yer fears
    Jist pu’ back yer shooders an rowe up yer sleeves
    Get oan tae yer feet get up off yer knees
    We’re better than that, we a’ ken it’s true
    That’s no whit a want, so how about you?

    Regards Margaret

    • Welsh Sion says:

      Bravo, Margaret!

      Here’s one of mine (with adaptations from the original, of course), in return.

      12. (of 20.)

      “New Jerusalem”

      And do those voters in present time
      Walk into Scotland’s Party home?
      And has the one, our Nicola,
      To Scotland’s pleasant pastures come?
      And does the countenance divine
      Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
      And is our future builded here
      Midst town and glen and mountain rills?

      Bring me my SNPers: both young and old!
      Bring me my Scots of desire!
      Bring me my destiny: as yet untold!
      Bring me my patriots on fire!
      I will not cease from mental fight;
      Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
      Till we have builded here
      A new and free; our very own Scotland.

      [With acknowledgements]

      Songs for the New Politics

  6. Charles McGregor says:

    Did I mishear Elaine there, that Michael Marra supported indy? I always thought he he was ultra unionist. Was he a late convert?

  7. Charles McGregor says:

    Wee bone of contention with Callum’s throw away ‘Everybody knew there was going to be a [EU] referendum’.

    At that time I suspect less than half the electorate knew of Cameron’s promise.

    Of those that knew of it, I suspect more than half thought it was moot because Labour had a significant poll lead.

    Of the small minority who knew of Cameron’s promise and who thought the Tories would win the next election less than half of those thought that the leave vote would win.

    My point is that only a tiny, tiny minority of the Scottish electorate at that point thought Brexit was a realistic possibility.

    • Bob Lamont says:

      Indeed…. The status quo or independence was front and centre the question in complete isolation, the infamous No=Remain in the EU campaign amplifying the status quo conveyed along with a host of other fears played on.
      The “always knew” myth was circulated to undermine the more recent “material change” position of the SNP, and even though those closer to political shenanigans may have foreseen a distant possibility, it did not figure in consideration by the electorate.

      • Anne Martin says:

        The thing is that Brexit is not the only ‘material change’ so, even in the unlikely event that Brexit is halted, we still have a mandate to go for independence.

        • We must always remember that, Anne.
          Our ProudScotButters Brit Nat Fifth Column is doing their Masters’ bidding, trying to drag their country of birth or choice out of the EU against the express will of the majority.
          There is no going back.
          We fight and fight to our last dying breath if necessary to extricate Scotland from this corrupt Union, or rather, colonisation by force by a ‘foreign power’ to the South.
          It is as stark as that.
          We are being held in check by an Oligarchy, for whom we did not vote.

          Old Brewdog was chuntering on about the 38% yesterday, who voted Leave.
          That’s his version of democracy. Feck the 62% who ‘won’, what about the poor souls who wanted to Leave?
          Duh, perhaps Yes But Hang On A Minute should tune in to BBC England every now and again.
          The 38% are getting their way, if we stand by and let Corbyn and May force our country Scotland out of the EU.
          It’s kinda what the whole Independence push is all about.
          No matter what we vote for Up Here, Mighty England will ignore it, ‘cos there are lots more of them.
          I’m minded to setting up a ‘Think Tank’, ‘The Nice Think Tank’, whose Mission Statement will be to promote ‘niceness’ among politicians, so that Davidson, Rennie, and Red Len can tear lumps out Nicola Sturgeon in public, but retire to an ante room later and have a wee friendly cosy chat with her over a dram and nibbles.
          Well why not?
          It seems to be the ethos of the Baroness Smith, her daughter, and Kezia Dugdale, monumental political failure, to comment fairly.

          They are flushing ‘paid interns’ into Holyrood, schools, and even among older workers in actual work, real work, making things, tending to the infirm, driving our ‘buses, not disgustingly overpaid pseudo political sinecures.
          The corruption of the Political Wing of the Oligarchy knows no bounds, and going by yesterday’s blatant plug on my TV licence money, has not even a smidgen of embarrassment or awkwardness about appearing in public to let us all know what a pointless wee Jobs for The obedient Yoon Boys and Girls this ‘Stink Tank’ really is.
          Even Brewer struggled to facilitate the free advert for a body that would not be missed if it folded tomorrow, which it may do, if Dugdale brings the level of success she had NOT in politics to it.
          Pity I missed the job advert. I might have applied.

          But then again, my dad wasn’t ‘the Best Prime Minister Britain didn’t have’, to quote Brewer, on Sunday’s weekly farce of a Scottish politics blub.
          Yet another half hour of banal Nat bashing and cosy chats among the Brit Nat propaganda sect.

          We shall not forget, Anne.
          There is no turning back.
          We shall be free soon now.

          • Welsh Sion says:


            Here’s the advert you missed – and why they glossed over you, appointing Dudfail as the best possible candidate for the job. 😉


            • Welsh Sion says:

              PS Beeb Scotland today featuring an article noting the 25th anniversary of the death of John Smith and his legacy.


            • Christus on a bike, Scion!
              The skills knowledge and competencies listed are:-

              “◾The successful candidate will be well connected across UK politics, the policy think-tank community and academia.
              ◾The Director will require gravitas and outstanding communication skills to represent the Centre on an international stage, including in media appearances, and must be comfortable leading from the front in a high-profile role.
              ◾They will be entrepreneurial and have the appetite and hunger for an exciting but challenging opportunity.
              ◾They will bring ambition, innovation and drive, with the ability to develop an inspirational vision and strategy to create a new way of governing effectively that puts citizens at the heart of the policy and political process.”
              Gravitas and outstanding communication skills?
              Dugdale met these criteria?
              Jobs for the Lasses in the wee sinecure village which Dugdale herself described.

              By any measure, she was and still is a political failure, who had been shoved to the back bench of one, by her own Party.
              She could hardly be described as ‘connected’ never mind ‘well connected’, and she has zero expertise as an entrepreneur.

              This latest wheeze to line failed ex politicians’ pockets with public or Dark Money cash on the back of a politician’s reputation, a man who is dead these 25 years, stinks all the way to the top of the Brit Nat Elite running our Universities.

              Scotland has a corrupt streak of rancid Dark Money hidden hands determined to undermine our social democracy.
              The thought of Sturgeon sharing a dram and a joke with Davidson, one of the political architects of slow death and humiliation to many of our citizens, fills me with rage.
              I couldn’t even share the same air in a room with any of them.
              I cannot imagine being in the same building as these peddlers of death by politics.

              The only ‘ambition and drive’ that Dugdale seems to demonstrate is keeping herself on the Brit Nat Gravy Train, by hook or by crook, which, I suggest Sheriff Nigel, is ‘fair comment’.

              John Major was the special guest at the launch of this farcical ‘Think Tank’.
              Kezia in bed with Thatcher’s spawn. Nice work, lovely jubbly.

              Any news on the salary expenses and pension package the Celebrity who got out of there is getting, and how it is funded?

              I am beyond reason in my rage at the moment.
              I’d want to know if any school my child attended had one of their interns foisted upon it, that’s for sure.

              • Welsh Sion says:

                Any news on the salary expenses and pension package the Celebrity who got out of there is getting, and how it is funded?

                – FoI request time?

                • It’ll be deemed ‘commercial in confidence’ under the DPA, Sion.
                  Don’t hold your breath expecting the Herald Britland setting their politics and Investigations hounds on the case any day soon.

                  They’re all too busy trying to smear Joanna Cherry at the moment.

                  ‘ When did you stop beating your wife?’ headlines in every rag.

                  I find it difficult to be ‘nice’ to these people, as Elaine C Smith suggests in the Dugcast.

                  Grubby wee muckrakers who don’t give a feck whose lives they are attempting to destroy, just to sell their tawdry wee Dead Tree Scrolls to Ranjurs an’ Sellick knuckledraggers.

                  It will surely be a six figure package, because there is plenty of Dark Money from the Hidden Hand of the Filthy Rich of the Iron Heel Oligarchy who think that democracy is just a chill pill to keep us, the Great Unwashed in our place.

                  You may recall Ross Thomson Blue Tory ERG member reportedly being escorted by police from the HoC subsidised bar for allegedly drunkenly using young men’s crotches as grab rails, so the story goes, for 24 hours that is, then the scandal was buried by our dogged hacks, on orders from their US and London bosses no doubt, to kill the alleged outrage.
                  They make a mockery of the notion that we have a Free Press.

                  I’m sure that there are closet SNP supporters at BBC Pacific Quay Brit Nat Stockade, but it would be their jobs if they came out and admitted it, or tried to influence editorial policy.

                  ‘Jack Collatin denies allegations that he kicks his dog.’

                  And I don’t even own a dog.

                  Ah, but there is no smoke without fire, nudge, nudge, wink wink, know what I mean,squire?

                  What a grubby wee job hacking for the Brit Nat rags has become.

                  On convincing No’s to YES, send out a detailed breakdown of State Pension Rates across the EU to every pensioner, and follow up with a visit to assure them that Independent Scotland would do much better, on a par with pensions in France, Spain, Germany.
                  The UK pittance is a long way fourth bottom, and this should be rammed home now, not just when the Indyref 2 starting gun is fired.

                  Also, the Single Parent who works part time who voted No because of fears that her money would stop come Independence.
                  There is a Big Job for the developing Scottish Social Security Department to issue assurances to all in receipt of work and child credits , to reassure voters that not only is their income guaranteed after Independence, but that evil Blue Tory Austerity will cease, including the two child cap, and the Rape Clause obscenity.

                  WE attack, refute, and ridicule Project Fear this time.

                  Already Lord Darling of Flipper is homing in on a separate Scottish currency, the man’s never happy.

                  The Dead Tree Scrolls have dropped the ‘Lord’ before Jack McConnell’s monicker now.
                  He is just plain ‘Jack’, in the ‘papers again, aye right.

                  A Man of the people, as long as he doesn’t have to mingle with us.

                  He is one of a long list of ‘Socialists’ who appear to have sold their souls for money, if I may be so bold as to ‘fairly comment’.

                  WE are blessed to have folk like Elaine and Paul, and the National, which must be on its US benefactor’s shoogly peg, still fighting the good fight.

                  I have no time for the MSM Up Here in general.

                  The day of reckoning is coming for the lot of them.

                  There is still room in the YES team for bruisers; nice will get sand kicked in our face.

                  Dugdale’s Escape Pod is a sycophantic disgrace, and we should say so, often, loud, and with passion, if I may ‘fairly comment’ yet again..


  8. Cubby says:

    Received my copy of your book from Vagabond Voices. Excellent service and excellent book. I would recommend it to anyone.

  9. Welsh Sion says:

    For Scotland,

    Thank you for your support, today. If you look closely you’ll see y ddraig goch and the Saltire together in Caerdydd/Cardiff, today!

    (Video included in link)


    Organisers say 2 000+ present!

    • Anne Martin says:

      That’s great. Your movement will just go from strength to strength with assistance from the total incompetence in Westminster. 👏👏👏👏👏

  10. Arthur Thomson says:

    I could listen to Elain for weeks. Great that she is with us.

  11. diabloandco says:

    That wee bit about ‘being Scottish’ reminded me of my favourite flag in Freedom Square which was ‘Somalia for Independence’ wielded by a long tall , handsome Somalian.

    You live here ? You want to be Scottish ? Grand! and Welcome!

  12. Welsh Sion says:

    What’s this about Labour Party Welsh language leaflets ending up in Scottish Gaelic speaking areas? And that the Welsh itself is erroneous?

    Dearie, dearie me. The Red Tories go from bad to worse.

    – Lawyer by Training
    – Linguist by Profession
    – Nationalist by Conviction

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