Sauce for the goose

A guest post by Samuel Miller

Been a hectic few weeks out there for political anoraks. Not to mention fairly enlightening for those of us who believe that self determination is the normal state of affairs for countries and individuals.

A Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, (badly) dances onto a stage when most folk are either on their last crust or nerve and promising, not for the first time, an end to austerity (sobs). A leader of the honourable (?) opposition, calling for folks to get all radical and doing some nifty dancing of his own, mainly on the head of a pin. Probably hoping against hope, that no one notices the gaping chasms of ideology and policy within his own party. Seems to me though, that if Mr Corbyn wants radical? Well, you’d think it doesn’t get more radical than the peoples of Scotland choosing their own form of government. One which truly reflects their needs and wishes for a change. Just a thought.

Oh, and both have local branch managers seemingly only too happy to redefine democracy for a population. To, how to put it? Manage your freedom to choose as and when the need arises, or when you might feel it’s necessary. Why? You may ask. In order to maintain a political union? Or… Or preserve the entitlement of the state to define your politics, your identity and your lives for you? The right of the tail to wag the dog. Readers can make their own minds up on that one I’m sure.

Both head office leaders did, however, absolutely paint the perfect picture of UK politics as it is practised. Oh yes. Both of them apparently focused on preserving the right of the few to use politics to abuse the interests of the many in any way shape or form they choose. Both of them intent on preserving a system and a parliament which historically and arguably, doesn’t really do partnership or sharing very well. A practice of politics, system of government and a parliament which you’d think might be aware that its existence is currently, (and some would say deservedly), hanging on a very shoogly peg.

Also safe to say that UKgov’s current woes regarding Brexit, the N.I. border (backstop/no backstop) and party in-fighting won’t have gone unnoticed. Ten MPs holding a party of government to ransom. Who’da thunk? The ironies (and there are a few) shouldn’t be lost on any of us really.

The Scottish government’s and the majority of the Scottish population’s opinion in all of this?

Pretty much ignored really. For now. Not for the first time in recent history though, now is it?

“You know, it seems to me that one of the lasting casualties of Brexit is the notion that the UK is in any sense a partnership of equals.

Our vote to remain in the EU ignored.

The Scottish Government’s compromise plan to stay in the single market dismissed.

Our request for a role in the negotiations cast aside.

A raid on our parliament’s powers. And when the Scottish Parliament said no to that raid, the UK Government could and should have respected that decision.

Instead they took us to court. That’s not partnership. That is Westminster control.

Scotland deserves better.” SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon’s keynote conference speech, October 2018.

I mean, if one demographic within the UK can be considered for exceptional status, then why not yer akchul nation partner? What message is being sent out by UK gov here? (Bit of a rhetorical question really.) Pretty sure Scotland’s population had the odd agreement and assurance from the government of the UK which were meant to be furrivver n’ always too. Ensure stability and warm fuzziness going forward. That kinda thing. In this instance surely what’s sauce for the goose applies? The next few weeks should send popcorn sales through the roof.

I know what I believe politics should be and what I would hope it should aspire to be.

It’s about care. It’s about keeping those in your care safe, helping them to put bread on the table and keeping a roof over their heads. It’s about tending to their hurts. It’s about service and compassion. Not a lot of any of that to be seen in today’s media and an absolute dearth of it anywhere near a Westminster politician. They’re a bit busy stabbing each other in the back playing that game of theirs.

Reading more extreme elements of the press today, you’d be forgiven for thinking that compassion is in fact a very bad word. Suitable only for the more crazed fringe elements of the population. Not, y’know, a mark of decent, reasoning, civilized humanity. Oh, and that’s regardless of your political background or point of origin. The more cynical among you might presume what they’re really about has more to do with political expediency and survival.

When it comes to narratives? You write your own. People are defined not simply by the words they say, but the actions they take and the choices they make. Just so yer average policy wonk is aware? Compassion doesn’t need redefining. It doesn’t belong to a particular rosette, and you don’t require anyone’s permission to have some.


41 comments on “Sauce for the goose

  1. Julia Gibb says:

    Everything, and I mean everything comes second to achieving Independence. I am happy to let the people of Scotland decide what my nation will look like. I trust my fellow Scots. I trust the next generation and the one after that. Why? Because they will live in the World they create instead of the one created for them by the legacy of the Empire.

    What I don’t trust is anyone who promotes, supports or argues for Westminster.


  2. […] Wee Ginger Dug Sauce for the goose A guest post by Samuel Miller Been a hectic few weeks out there for political anoraks. […]

  3. Alba woman says:

    The mother of democracy ain’t my idea of maternal…..what a bunch of sociopaths. They have been given and have taken far too much power to their totally undeserving selves

    I agree with your considerations Julia of where your trust lies….our children are our pieces of gold. We have to try to protect them from these sociopathic people.

  4. Andy Anderson says:

    “Mother of Democracy”!!

    A Mother is a person who gives love, care and discipline to our lives. Well that is not what Westminster demonstrates to us the People.

    Democracy? That died decades ago in this Union. It is all a sham supported by a distorted media.

  5. Orri says:

    Thing is the DUP can achieve their aim at no border in the Irish Sea only if Wales and England remain in the Single Market. Otherwise there’s a slight problem with that between the Republic and the UK mainland.

    Failing that the way to minimise the border between Scotland and Northern Ireland is that both remain in the Single market. Think we can cope with a border between Scotland and England.

    Amazingly enough that’d satisfy the will of the people bit Westminster bang on about.

    • Robert Harrison says:

      For a year yeah then England ends up financially up the Creek Westminster blames Scotland for leaving the UK and the English supremacists down there mental as the reality proves everything they believe to be bs but won’t accept it because that would mean everything they believed is a lie can’t wait to wacth England supremacists go insane film at 11.

    • Liz g says:

      Thing is Orri
      A border between Scotland and England that keeps Scotland in the single market doesn’t address the oil and gas issue.
      Would it stay in the single market with us or out of the EU with England?
      Westminster are never going to agree to anything that potentially returns control of the Oil and Gas to Scotland…. Which is why the I think the whole idea is a nonstarter!

      • Orri says:

        The UK already treats all of Scotland’s part of its EEZ as not belonging fully to Scotland

        They’d probably fudge a solution that meant at a minimum the channel between Scotland and NI was in the EU.

        A brief google shows the two likliests paths for a bridge are both less than 24 miles.

        Who knows. They might be emboldened enough to take a leaf out of Thatcher’s reasoning for imposing the Poll Tax on Scotland first and address the complaints about the Scotland England sea border by limiting the extent of Scots Law to 12 miles and imposing ‘UK’ , as in place English, law on the rest.

        • I am hoping – in fact expecting – that the Scottish Government has made plans to establish Scotland’s claims to the surrounding sea areas to all the sea areas signed away into English territory by Westminster fiat. It is one of the things – disputes, bones of contention – that should be ready to go the minute we become independent. Then we should hit Westminster with all of them simultaneously.

          Territorial claims against another EU State? Not advisable. Territorial claims by an EU State against a pariah State such as the rump UK that has done its absolute utmost to p*iss everybody else in Europe off to the maximum extent? The Westminster regime has practically zero good will left to it in the rest of the world. We have already won the PR war in most of the rest of Europe – except perhaps with the fascistic Orbán regime in Hungary, which the Tory MEPs supported when Hungary was being censured recently in the European Parliament for its abuses of human rights.

  6. chicmac says:

    We should also have compassion for those who demean themselves, whether through acceptance of inferiority or servility by an underclass to a supposed superior class or, indeed, those of that ‘superior’ class with deluded notions of exceptionalism and privilege themselves.

    After all, both, in their very different ways, have accepted a common barrier which prevents either from reaching their full human potential.

  7. dioghaltas says:

    Independence, by it’s very nature, is fractured as a single goal; for that goal, and the reward of such, is radically different in the hearts of those who would see it achieved as a collective.

    Independence should be free of identity and persuasion for as long as it is a goal to be attained. For if we forgo the bad, we shun the movement as a whole, and a movement divided, is a movement that cannot stand, to paraphrase a certain influential American president.

    Look to the whole, rather than the virtuous minority, and perhaps therein we would find the weight to drive home the issue once and for all.

    Scotland should be free, and upon that, we all can agree. So lets start acting like it.

  8. Illy says:

    If a politician isn’t trying to turn their state into a utopia, then they aren’t fit for office.

  9. susan says:

    I think a hard border between Scotland and England would be a good idea. England can’t be trusted.

    • When we remain in the EU and England leaves, we will be in the same situation as the Republic of Ireland vis-à-vis the North. To put it another way, if England wants to wall itself off, we cannot stop them – but we must not let it guide our actions. We are inevitably going to be hurt by Brexit, independence or no independence – but with independence, we can deal with the problems that will arise in our own way, not Westminster’s, and we know from bitter experience that Westminster does not have our best interests at heart. The conclusion is obvious, really – the challenge is to get our compatriots’ heads out of the sand so they can see it too.

    • Moonlight says:

      I agree with Susan. It’s been mooted already by someone smarter than me.
      If the UK is so keen on the will of the people then, NI voted remain and should do so. No Irish border question then and the majority of inhabitants happy. ( Excepting the Hizbollah of the DUP.)
      Scotland voted remain and should do so. This means a border with England, that’ll be as hard as the English choose to make it by their own actions.

      Scotland is well placed to export it’s surpluses in Electricity, Power, Agriculture and Fisheries, Food products and Oil and Gas directly to the continent. Also acting as a land bridge for NI and Eire. The arguement that Scotland exports mostly to England is falacious, Scotland must import more from England. nearly everything imported from England can be sourced from other EU countries directly across the sea in cheap and efficient containers.

      I believe a small majority of Scots has polled to say that a landborder with England would be acceptable and Tory voters have polled by a large majority to sacrifice Scotland to further their Brexit.
      England and Wales voted leave and are free to leave the EU and do as they please, wherever they please.

      Seems like the most democratic solution to me, everyone gets what they want. This can all be done without independence, but letting the soft Nos see how England and Wales get on would probably focus their minds on the benefits of Yes.

      I see the Channel Islands are asking the French to speak for them, perhaps we could ask the Scandinavians to do the same for us, giving Scotland a voice by proxy.

      • So that’s the three of us agreed, really, Susan, me, and Moonlight! I’m for doing the referendum sooner than later, but that’s tactics and strategy, the First Minister has better advisers to help her make her decision on that one – and all I can say is that I’m glad it’s not me who has lie awake at night making that particular judgement call.

        I like the idea of asking the Scandinavians to speak for us, Moonlight. Denmark seems the obvious choice – we could offer them preferential access to our bacon market in return – sorry, only kidding.

  10. Tol says:

    “Peoples vote” with their claim of ”voters were lied to”

    That claim looks increasing naive. It only holds water if the polls had abandoned Tories. Instead, as the Brexit situation has worsened to catastrophic levels, the government’s poll numbers have increased.

    On the facts, it looks more likely that the voters were WILLINGLY LIED TO. The lies (that were so obvious) gave a polite cover for the real reason they don’t want to mention. If peoples’ position doesn’t move but their reasons keep morphing every time they are proven false…the stated reasons were always a lie….
    The only reason for Brexit that has not changed is immigration.

    Brexit is England putting up a wall.

    It is ironic that a country that imposed itself on the world at the barrel of the gun and violence is now is unhappy about mixing with the world. Its not are you British enough…it’s becoming are you English enough.

    How far will a scared little England go…If the existing undercurrents and fringe organizations are any guide…the effects of English supremacy will be chilling

    • Welsh Sion says:

      How far will a scared little England go…If the existing undercurrents and fringe organizations are any guide…the effects of English supremacy will be chilling.

      – You are indeed right, Tol, and this has been gathering steam for decades. The English could parade their arrogance and imperialism and cloak it under the mask of “Britishness”, to which some deluded fellow Celts followed to the blare of imperial bugles and gunfire, planting the Butcher’s Apron all over the world and bringing ‘civilisation’ to the fuzzy-wuzzies, all the while wiping them off the face of the earth, extinguishing their cultures, traditions and languages and enslaving any survivors.

      Now that, mercifully, has gone for the most part, and former colonies are sovereign, independent countries. Their peoples are free of the (union) jack boot, and can govern themselves as they see fit. (Yet, the extreme Brexiters, and indeed the ‘British Establishment’ have never really gone away – they still hope for a re-boot of Empire v2.0 and exploiting the ‘savages’ and making use of their resources so as to enrich the mother country.) Twas ever so – only they now realise they have to account for themselves as ‘English’ – and the lackeys and babus of yore from Scotland and Ireland will want out of any such arrangement. And I wish them good luck in that – this is one of my main reasons for supporting Scottish independence.

      I observe. I listen. I learn. I await the time for the penny to drop among my compatriots. The Indians, the Ghanaians, the Kenyans and many others have sloughed off the deadweight British skin that kept them down for so long. The Irish likewise – other than so hard-headed nut jobs who profess ‘loyalty’ to a State, a country of the mind which does not reciprocate their feelings and cares even less about their ‘Province’. The Scots are on their way – and will happily flick V signs as they leave the shell of the now gutted Disunited Kingdumb. It requires the same boldness of vision and action from my country to do the same – and may the English Establishment not live happily ever after.

      • Tol says:

        @Welsh Sion

        YEP. Chickens are coming home.

        I keep thinking all those “small brain” anti-racism campaigns from the 90’s were a warning. Its turning a blind eye to (tacit feeding of) organised racism makes what had been marshmallow paramilitary sink deep roots into their community. The empire has a long history of divide and rule and for Brexit, it took the unusual step of allowing them to be unleashed on English soil.

        What is really scary is that I suspect they thought these organisations would go back in their box once given their red meat. I fear they are mistaken.

        All I can say is RUN…Don’t look back. RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

    • Thing is ,Tol, the English weren’t ‘lied to’.

      Much has been written by the English commentariat about English ‘exceptionalism’.

      Many millions of English born, and not exclusively white Anglo Saxons, believe that ‘England’ and equally the catch all altrenative ‘Britain’ will be ‘great’ again once they leave the influence of the ECJ and stem the tidal wave of Johnny Furriners insurgents flooding England’s green and pleasant land ,who’ll work for a pittance, claim everything, overload English hospitals, schools, and GP surgeries, and compete with true born Brits for Council houses and jobs, and all that warped jazz.

      There are literally tens of millions, including hundreds of thousands Up Here, who want Britland to close its borders to the Foreign Foe, and will gladly suffer privation and shortages in a protracted phoney ‘war’ against Europe and all its foreign ways.

      They know that there isn’t an extra £350 million a week for ‘the NHS’; they know that banks, insurance companies, and car manufacturers will bail out once No Deal, which is inevitable now, becomes the reality. They know that hundreds of thousands of jobs will be lost, and their wage packets will suffer.
      But they see that as a price worth paying to ‘purify’ their nation.
      They know that there will be hard border between N Ireland and the South, that the GFA will lie in tatters at their feet, and that unrest will return to the Provence.

      They don’t care about that.
      For forty years Irish killed Irish, blew up buildings, and a Reign of Terror spread throughout the 6 Counties.

      It hardly mattered in England, until the IRA took their campaign of terror to ‘the mainland’.
      The mood, in England specifically, is one of triumphalism from the Leavers over the 48% Remainers.
      They really don’t care about Scotland, N Ireland, Gibraltar, or the Channel Islands.
      Britain is England. Let’s settle that once and for all.

      Jesus, Gordon Brewer had to be pulled up by Ruth Wishart when he suggested quite idiotically that we were all so fed up of hearing about Brexit, even the 62% Scots who voted Remain, that we were so defeated, beaten down, and had vanquished, that we just wanted May and the WM Far Right to ‘just get on with it’.
      We leave the EU over my dead body, Brewer.

      What a stupid piece of BBC Brit Nat Propaganda from an increasingly vapid little man.
      They weren’t lied to.
      When they voted Leave, they had their own neurotic delusions about Mighty England, and Article 50 was seeen as a declaration of ‘war’ against Europe, reinforced by the cynical prodding of JRM, Boris, and the sleekit wee Dr Fox.

      And this is where we are.

      Today NS will reinforce the Scottish Government’s stance: A Norway solution; Scotland to remain in the SM and Customs Union.

      Alternately if England and Wales leave on a No Deal option, then the Scottish Government has an electoral mandate to call for a second Independence plebiscite.

      I note that BBC sources report that Mundell and Mum2B have threatened to resign if May brokers a deal that includes a sea border between NI and the UK.

      How would we notice the difference if this pair of charlatans and enemies of the people of Scotland were no longer at their desks?

      It would really make my week if Alec McLeish made up a trio of abject failures departing the public arena.

      England isn’t ‘being lied ‘to.

      They genuinely believe in all this fascist crap.

      And that’s the danger for Scotland.
      We are seen as ‘the enemy’ in cahoots with the EU 27.


      • Tol says:

        @Jack collatin

        Another great piece.

        However, I think you may have misunderstood my post. RE: “Peoples vote” with their claim of ”voters were lied to”. This comment was referencing the current claim by many in the “Peoples’ Vote” movement about why they claim there should be a second vote.

        I have been listening to a large amount of “Peoples’ vote” media and fora over the last couple of weeks. Sadly, I think it is doomed. Not just because they can’t force the political system to deliver it but also their messages are all over the place. Any valid points get swamped and they lurch from re-arguing the original Brexit debate to then getting lost in all and every injustice.

        If you sit through it all, when they finally get to discussing the vote, then they have no clear vision of what they actually want.

        • No Deal will be greeted with cries of , that’ll teach Johnny Foreigner not to mess with England, ‘cos they need us more than we need them, and anyway we beat them in two World Wars and the World Cup’, and so on.
          England: The Tribe That Lost Its Head.

      • Just read your piece Jack, after posting my comment. Strangely similar thinking. Maybe it isn’t strangely similar, but just inevitably similar. The English, have been brainwashed for 40 years by the most right wing press since Germany in the 1930’s. Foreign billionaire owners, who couldn’t care less about the future of the ordinary plebs, filled their heads with lies until they went into an uncontrollable, angry hateful frenzy. What are they angry about? What have you got?
        Mainly, the EU and immigrants from the EU. Although, unlike the UK, the EU is a fair, democratic institution which did protect the plebs from the worst policies of the right wing psychopaths, the British media and their tame politicians have managed to convince the English to vote for the destruction of their country. Also, the destruction of their children’s future and the destruction of their neighbours economies. They don’t care about how much damage Scotland and Ireland suffer. They don’t want us to escape, but to be pulled down with them.
        This people’s vote, even if Remain won, would solve nothing. It would be like the perceived betrayal of Germany after WW1. The Brexiters wouldn’t go away, they would be stronger than ever, more right wing than ever, but this time with a grievance. The whole mess can only be solved with the Destruction of the British right wing press and broadcasters. That’s not going to happen. Disruption in England is guaranteed for the foreseeable future. We need to escape from this dystopian nightmare, before they start to focus in on us. It is inevitable that they will. As they run out of people to blame, Scotland will be brought into focus. We have already been used in the past two General Elections as a threat. This will continue, only more so. We will be painted as a faux financial drain on the English economy. We all know what that means under emergency, post Brexit Britain.

        • I clacked off a reply to yours, Marlon, in which I tore a strip of the Fourth Estate Fifth Columnists in print and broadcasting and the tax money spent on the Biggest Scroungers in Britain/England, the Windsors, and it disappeared un-sent into the ether.
          God afternoon, GCHQ.
          I Look forward to those didymous dunderheids Mundell and Davidson handing in their notice.
          That should be fun.
          They know that they can’t fight on two fronts, Europe and Scottish Self Determination.
          You bet your crocodile boots that ‘now is not the time’ if you are a Brexiteer.
          Now’s the day and now’s the hour, see the front of battle lower, my friends.

        • Magically when I observed that the following comments disappeared before posting, and I bade GCHQ a g’day, they reappeared below.

          Marlon, it is lifted straight from the pages of 1984.
          They are controlled by the Thought Police, and lies are broadcast in Doublespeak,, printed, rewritten and reinterpreted by a vast army of State Propagandists working for the Man.
          Brewer Kerr Marr Taylor Gordon Clegg know the Truth.

          But they are not there to print or broadcast the Truth.

          They are in place to protect the Few, and shield them from the rising wrath and rage of the many.

          Yet another Royal Birth is announced, EDC in the Spring of ’19 just when Toyota, Land Rover and Jaguar pull out of No Deal England.
          The Army in London have already squealed their delight on Twitter announcing that they are already polishing the brass on their ceremonial cannon. I don’t think the twitter meant to be phallic.
          Yet more millions of our money thrown away in perpetuating this evil system of Elitist Rubbish.

          One of the Queen’s grandweans got married at the week end and we paid the bill for ‘protecting’ the happy billionaire couple.
          The Iron Heel Oligarchy will stop at nothing to get their way and an Independent Scotland will be resisted, ultimately by force of arms.

  11. chicmac says:

    On the macro-political scale, the basic problem is this, England has approximately twice as many people as makes sense from a resource to population ratio for a modern, normal, sustainable, country.

    That is not their fault, it is more an accident of history where an imperial past, with an empire of huge proportions, allowed that population imbalance to occur by a process of incidental resource acquisition.

    A sane ruling elite would be and would already have been, doing the following to address the situation.

    1. Boosting manufacturing to create a surplus of goods which could be exchanged, through trade, for the imports it needs.

    2. Pushing advanced agricultural techniques, thousands of acres of greenhouse coverage, hydroponics, etc.

    3. Maximising their sustainable energy production, by for instance, allowing their superb on shore wind potential to be harnessed to levels approaching that of their surrounding neighbours in NW Europe.

    4. Come clean and go to the EU and say, ‘Look we have way too many people, we need a special ‘full up’ deal on immigration’. The EU would have listened, eventually, because the facts back that up.

    5. Embark on a slow, very slow, ethical and manageable population reduction program.

    In short, pretty much what The Netherlands, which has nearly as high a population density as England, albeit with 100% good agricultural land there, has largely achieved.

    Instead they have a delusional elite which has been imbued with a romanticised English mythos.
    They are luddite to a Blake-esque level, satanic mills bad – we don’t bash metal. Manufacturing bad.
    Major’s idyll of an England of villages, warm beer and cricket on the green is ludicrously incompatible with the resource to population ratio they currently have, it would need to be about 1/5th of the current population or less before such a way of living was even possible.
    On shore wind turbines? Are you mad? ‘I don’t care if it would plug our energy gap, the green and pleasant land must be preserved.’.

    As the sustaining imperial resource dwindled post WWII the elite demonstrated complete inability to form the kind of social contract with a manufacturing working class which other countries, like Germany, Netherlands, Sacandinavia et al have managed despite the even greater need to do so in the UK. Entry into the EU and the discovery of NS oil saved the UK from the economic disaster which loomed.

    The elite were able to indulge their fantasy mythos. Shut down industry, neglect farming, sell off fishing, live off the oil money.

    Plan B for when the oil money ran out was to create a ‘financial services’ industry based in London which would plug the GDP black hole. After all money laundering, tax avoidance, drug funding and ripping off the public is not nearly as dirty as, ugh! actually making stuff, farming, mining or fishing.
    Throw in some arms manufacturing (backed by conflict promotion demand generation) for that additional ethical icing on the cake.

    Plan C Empire II. ‘What do you mean the World is too educated for that to happen these days? Errr, is it?’

    Disaster now looms for England, immediately because the likliehood is that the lovingly honed financial services sector in London will disappear like snaw aff a dkye post brexit but more long term because I cannot see the required paradigm shift by its ruling elite being possible this side of a full blown revolution down there. A revolution not for communism or anything radical, just for normality.

    All that the rest of Europe, which hopefully will contain an iScotland, can do is sit it out and brace itself for a refugee influx which will dwarf anything seen in the past.

    • Macart says:

      Well said Chic.

    • Andy Anderson says:

      Excellent. Been aware of the issues you highlight at the top of your article for years. I like your conclusions regarding this. Grim stuff but in time I think you are correct.

    • deelsdugs says:

      Agreed. And their knee jerk reaction, hark back to the past imperialism and fuck it up all over again…only they’ve got their laundered wedge in various imperialistic havens…

    • JGedd says:

      I have often thought that their cushioned existence of privilege has rendered this elite incapable of truly understanding consequences and risk. At the moment many of them are actually making money from the crazy uncertainties of the financial markets etc., through hedge funds and speculation – making hay before the sun sets. They are set up no matter what happens.

      I would prefer those in charge to have learned caution from real experience of fortune’s vagaries and not those who actually revel in chaos since they have no fear of existential risk. To be candid, I don’t really think that they have a thought-through process and embarked on this mad exercise without any back-up plan. ( Boris Johnson, like an unlikeable Mr Toad comes to mind, rushing tally-ho into some misguided new adventure but helping to cause mayhem to a whole country. Only those who feel safely protected from the results of Bojo’s incautious ventures treat him with indulgent amusement. And so his whole class..)

  12. robert harrison says:

    In other news Davidson and Mundell threaten to quit if there’s a better alternative to tory hard Brexit we know that’s an empty threat because independence is the better alternative and that would mean they’d of quit already.

    • Andy Anderson says:

      Fingers crossed

    • Robert Graham says:

      Robert , i wonder if anyone would notice their departure ,
      Of course it’s all guff to draw attention from the impending implosion of the Tory gang , How the worst government in living memory manages to stay in front of Corbyn is pretty baffling and does not look good for whats left of the Labour party in Scotland who cling to this belief theMesaiah will come to the rescue , it aint happening suckers , so it’s time to choose , perpetual Tory government or independence , free will is the gift of all men and women it’s time to use it .
      A spine and a moral compass is also required that disqualifies many in that party .

  13. Very well put Macart. Unnoticed, or ignored by the UK Government over the past 15 years was the rise of English Nationalism. In the census of 2011, 80% of the people of England chose the description English, not British. Taken by surprise, it only slammed into the UK’s consciousness with the 2016 EU Referendum result. The rise of UKIP should have shown this cleary. UKIP, was never, even a part Scottish movement. Now we learn that 75%-80% of Tory voters would throw both Scotland and Northern Ireland under the bus, if it achieved and guaranteed their Brexit.
    So when Theresa May and Ruth Davidson talk about the “precious” Union, we now know for sure, if we didn’t before, that they only use this terminology when it’s useful. When it comes to the crunch, we mean nothing to the English Establishment or the vast majority of English people.
    I use the term English people, knowing that this may bridle with some people. I am well aware that, there are many English people, living in Scotland, who are as desperate for Independence as the most fervent Yesser. However, it is a fact, that when it comes to Scottish Independence, English people, living in England, who never normally tire of articulating how liberal and progressive they are, turn into quite a different animal at the thought of Scottish Independence. Jeremy Corbyn springs to mind. Jeremy will defend, to the death, the right of Outer Guacamole to have full independence from Inner Guacamole. But when it comes to Scotland, he wants to legislate against and outlaw another Scottish Referendum.
    There is also a surprising lack of English people, living in England, who wish us well with our quest for Independence. Very, very few on social media. Some of them might have thought that it was only fair, that as Scotland voted by a large majority to Remain in the EU, then we should be allowed to. I haven’t seen much evidence for this. I have seen the opposite. It is usually in the form of, it was a UK wide referendum or, you voted to remain in the UK in 2014. Unaware, that they themselves, are making the case for Scotland to take back control.

    • Andy Anderson says:

      Overall I agree with your sentiments. I have been to England a few times this year. I did not meet any extremists but I did note a massive ignorance of Scotland from everyone I spoke to. Our of say 120 people only 2 said that they would be sad to see us go.

  14. chicmac says:

    We should not lose sight of the silver linings. (more macro-politics)

    The EU was reeling. The aftermath of the credit crunch and its inordinate effect on those nations which rely heavily on tourism ( holidays abroad being among the first victims of belt tightening in such circumstances) and the influx of refugees from the Middle East largely via Southern Europe , precipitated an increasing North South GDP chasm.

    A double whammy for Southern, i.e. Mediterranean European states which met the brunt of both effects, neither of their own making.

    The EU project was in extreme danger, fracture seemed inevitable.

    However victory was snatched from the jaws of defeat by the deliciously ironic intervention of the UK’s very own xenophobic brigade.

    It is difficult to see what other mechanism could have held Europe together other than the bonkers brexit of Farage, Johnson and Mogg.

    Well done the three stooges.

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