Labour rips up the Claim of Right

It is being reported today, Sunday, that following Jeremy Corbyn’s suggestion that he might be prepared to ‘allow’ Scotland to hold a future independence referendum should he become Prime Minister, that the Scottish Branch Office is to press for the inclusion of a clause in the Labour manifesto explicitly opposing another independence referendum. The Branch Office is thought to believe that this would mean that a future Labour government would have a mandate to forbid any future independence referendum and to refuse to give the Scottish Government a Section 30 order, irrespective of any mandate that the Scottish Government has been given by the people of Scotland in a Scottish election and irrespective of the vote share received by independence parties or the number of MPs they achieve. According to Nick Eardley of the BBC, an announcement to this effect will be made at the Labour party conference in Liverpool.

So there you go. Labour in Scotland has now told the people of Scotland that the fate of Scotland will not be decided by the people of Scotland. The Claim of Right which Labour MPs, including Gordon Brown, signed up to in 1989 has been ripped up and is as valueless as the Vow. That Claim of Right asserted the sovereignty of Scotland within the UK. It stated that the signatories acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount. The Claim of Right was signed by every Labour and Lib Dem MP who was currently serving, with the exception of the arch British supremacist, the late Tam Dalyell.

If Labour goes ahead with this announcement at its party conference in Liverpool, it will signify Labour’s rejection of the Claim of Right. The official position of the Labour party in Scotland now is that the decision on whether Scotland can or cannot hold a future independence referendum will be decided by the electorate of the rest of the UK. The Labour Party in Scotland can no longer legitimately claim that it represents the interests and political will of the people of Scotland. It is a party of British supremacism. For the Labour party in Scotland, Scotland’s vote, Scotland’s voice, is subordinate to the electoral will of the rest of the UK.

If this measure is adopted, it means that the official position of the Labour party is that it doesn’t matter what Scotland votes for. It doesn’t matter if Scotland returns a huge majority for a party that seeks a referendum on independence whether in a Westminster General Election or a Holyrood election. It doesn’t matter if a party achieves a mandate within Scotland to seek self-determination. That mandate will be overturned by whatever it is that the 91.7% of voters in the UK outwith Scotland have voted for.

Labour’s position is now that the future of Scotland is not for the people of Scotland to decide.  It’s for the rest of the UK.  Labour no longer acknowledges the sovereign right of the people of Scotland to decide the form of government best suited to their needs. It’s for the rest of the UK.  Labour no longer recognises that the interests of the people of Scotland shall be paramount. Scotland, Labour tells us, will get what the rest of the UK votes for, and that will include deciding the form of government best suited to Scotland’s needs. It will do so, even though the interests and concerns of Scotland scarcely register amongst the electorate outwith Scotland, and voters in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland will not be making their voting decisions based upon support or rejection of whatever it is that Scotland wants. The message from Labour is, “Scotland, get back in your shortbread tin. You’re just not that important.”

Labour can no longer argue that it supports the sovereign right of the people of Scotland to decide the form of government best suited to their needs. You cannot place limits on that sovereignty in order to suit your party interests. There is a fundamental contradiction between the Claim of Right and an assertion from the Labour party that it can use a mandate derived from voters outwith Scotland to reject a second independence referendum, even if there is a majority for that referendum in the Scottish Parliament, and even if a majority of Scottish MPs were elected with an explicit mandate to bring one about. Labour has shredded the Claim of Right and replaced it with an assertion of Westminster supremacism. Tam Dalyell would approve.  But Tam Dalyell is long gone, and so is the claim of Labour in Scotland to be a Scottish party.

It is not coincidental that this anti-democratic move from Labour’s Scottish Branch Office comes as support for independence has never been higher. It is not coincidental that this move happens as the UK destroys itself over Brexit. The reality is that if Labour and the other British nationalist parties sincerely believed that there was no credible and realistic prospect of Scotland voting yes in a future referendum, they would be those crying most loudly for a second independence vote to settle the issue for good. The reason they’re doing their utmost to prevent a vote coming about is because they’re terrified. It’s because they know that they have no positive arguments to make. It’s because they know that after the betrayal of the Vow they have no carrot to offer, only the stick of threats and intimidation. They’re trying to prevent a referendum because they’re going to lose it.

A couple of days ago in this blog, I argued that the biggest lie of British nationalism in Scotland is that Scotland is a part of a Union. The reality is that there is no Union and there never was. Scotland is a subordinate part of a unitary state.  I never expected that the Branch Office would confirm that so quickly and so blatantly. I never expected that so quickly and so obviously Labour would confirm that it is a British nationalist party, an upholder of the supreme right of Westminster, and would rip up the Claim of Right and explicitly deny that the people of Scotland have a sovereign right to determine their own future.

But here’s the thing. Scotland doesn’t need the permission of the Labour party to hold a referendum. Scotland doesn’t need the permission of Westminster to hold a consultative referendum. Any election held in this country can be transformed into a plebiscite election on independence, because this is not Spain. Whatever cant the Labour party comes out with, Westminster will consent to a Scottish independence referendum because a vote will be held with or without their permission.

What would really destroy any last hopes that the British nationalists might have of clinging on to Scotland would be if they have to fight a campaign on independence when they have refused to allow the people of Scotland to have a say. That’s not a good look for their so-called Union. It destroys any pretence that Scotland is in a Union and exposes the big lie of a Union that is no union at all. All Labour has done now is to rip up the Claim of Right and to prove to the voters of this country that the party doesn’t care what Scotland votes for.  This only makes independence more likely.


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76 comments on “Labour rips up the Claim of Right

  1. Well, at least they are out in the open now and we all know where we stand. It will be interesting to see how the die-hard Scottish Labour supporters rationalise THIS!

  2. Mbiyd says:

    You don’t have to look far in the UK to see what happens when the democratic route is closed. Very frightening that they never learn.

  3. Sheryl Hepworth says:

    Soooo…. Why are BLiS still standing (or rather sitting) in seats that are in the SCOTTISH Parliament?? They should pack their we baggis and toddle off out of Scotland completely!! We don’t want them and they obviously don’t want to be here… Answer.. GO!!!

    • I fully expect Neil Findlay and Jackie Baillie to clock in tomorrow, clear their desks, and resign.
      We are a colony. No need for the sham of Holyrood any more.
      Gordon Brewer let that Dick Leonard spout this nonsense today, uninterrupted.
      Corbyn was all over the place on Brexit on Marr’s WM Bubble.
      They really have lost the plot.
      Come on Monica, Jenny, Johann. Pack you bags and quit Holyrood, that wee pretendy Parish Councill.
      What a bunch of Plonkers, Rodders.
      We shall be free soon.

  4. Eun says:

    Will the SNP finally get up off their arses and call them out on this or continue saying nothing while the yoon parties get tore in as she has been doing?

  5. Macart says:

    Jaw dropping, isn’t it Paul? When I first saw this appear this morning, I literally had to rub my eyes. I knew Labour in Scotland were poor and many of their current rank verging on the obsessional side these days, but dear God.

    I’d say it also goes a tad beyond ripping up the claim of right. Article 1:2 of the UN charter states:

    2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

    Is Leonard and Labour actually willing to ignore this? To ignore a population’s right to self determination? Labour really, REALLY, need to rethink this proposal and Mr Leonard really, REALLY, needs to apologize to the population on behalf of Labour in Scotland for even considering such an appalling action.

    • Did you catch his ‘interview’ with Brewer today, Sam.
      How could any sane person think that this man could run Scotland?

      • Macart says:

        Been away for most of today Jack, but I can imagine. Still gobsmacked. 😮

        • Of course Brewer wound up the set sitting with Severin Carrell, ‘Sevvie’ to his friends, and Anne McGuire, failed MP, one of the Feckin’ useless Red Tory MP’s we kicked out in ’15, slapping down the notion of a Second Indyref, then twittering on about a second Brexit Referendum.
          Nice appearance money for some of the Faithful, eh?
          My licence money, used as propaganda against me.
          Not for much longer.

  6. Indyman says:

    The ultimate aim of BLiS politicians is becoming clear. It is to end up landing one of those £300-a-day-for-snoring-in-the-House-of-Lords gigs which are only awarded to those true and faithful servants of the Westminster Posh Boys club.

  7. Dan Huil says:

    What really sickens is Labour’s hypocrisy towards nationalism. The Labour party is a British nationalist party, just like the tories.

  8. Petra says:

    C’mon folks we’re talking about someone, Loco Leonard, who wanted Scottish Water to return to Scottish public ownership, with a boss, Cookoo Corbyn, that thought that it was problematic to have different legal systems operating in the UK – despite that (both) being the existing arrangement.

    So why would we imagine that they’ve even heard of the Claim of Rights or Article 1:2 of the UN charter?

    What the latest Leonard faux pas probably highlights is that, rather than being vindictive and undemocratic, he’s probably just totally ignorant ………

    OK with a bit of vindictiveness, jealousy, fear, insecurity and sense of entitlement thrown in for good measure.

    • hettyforindy says:

      Indeed and Scottish water is publicly owned, except for the business arm which, weirdly, ( not!)
      the Labour branch Britnats when at Holyrood privatised. They planned to privatise the lot!

      As for Dick not being vindictive or undemocratic? What he said on the BBC Britnat platform for all the world to see and hear without interruption, could hardly be more undemocratic. these people are not daft, they know exactly what they are doing, they are trained in how to speak, what to say and when.

      Dick’s speech should have been challenged, the SNP should have been on a wee screen thing, in a studio, they do have them somewhere in Scotland don’t they, and been allowed to question how Dick Leonard can dare to lord over the people of Scotland and Scotland’s mandate for an independence referendum.

      These people are not ignorant, but they sure as hell hope enough people, the voters are, so they can carry out their undemocratic plots to undermine Scotland, the SNP, and the people of Scotland.

      Imagine you are new to Scotland from rEU, not been in Scotland for long, Dick’s claptrap nonsense would be confusing to say the least.

      Schemers, lying toads the lot of them, as well as having pals in very high and dodgy places, they are a danger to Scotland’s very survival. Scotland is an occupied territory, that cannot go on for much longer.

      Let’s see what Liebour are plotting with their pals the Tories next.

    • Weechid says:

      That’s what I was aondering Petra. Did Tricky Dickie realise what the hell he was actually doing? It’s not as if he usually does.

  9. Thepnr says:

    There it is then, the “Union” has been revealed as a sham by the Red Tory Labour party in Scotland. They will decide the shape of Scotland’s future along with the electorate of the rest of the UK and who cares what Scots think.

    They’re only doing this for our own good they will scream, without us you’re in the stinking lavvy on the outside without any bog roll and unable to wipe your own arse.

    Trust us and it’ll be fine. just to prove it, here’s a Daily Record to help you out in your hour of need.

  10. hettyforindy says:

    Labour, lying, two faced, scheming troughers. The arrogance of Dick Leornard, Britsh Nationalist, being given a platform on the BBC to state, without blinking (a known threatening tactic, struggled though, watch him blink at the end!) that his branch office would actively try to block an indepedence referendum.

    Red Tories don’t do democracy do they, they are as dangerous, if not more than the Tories. Their pretendy lefty facade works on far too many people.

    Dick’s BBC platform speech today was also to ramp up the ignorant arrogance of Britnats south of the border. You’s can’t have everything, you’s take all our money, so there blah blah blah!

    Dick’s hoping for that £300 a day in the not too distant future at HOL’s. What happens when you fail Dick, what then eh! UKOK gov doesn’t look too kindly on those who don’t do their dirty work effectively!

    • All Brewer or ‘Sevvie’ or kicked our Red Tory ex MP Anne McGuire need have said was, ‘Claim of Right’.
      That would have shut the Shop Steward up.
      But they didn’t.

      They are the Winston Smiths at the Ministry of Truth in the Brit Nat stockade at Pacific Quay,
      War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery and so on.

      What a tawdry wee Brit Nat outpost at Pacific Quay.
      You re a laughing stock, yet you trudge on, spreading lies and half truths.

      No really, in my household we burst out laughing when Leonard spoke of Prohibition and Brewer made sure the nonsense stuck in the minds of BBC’s faithful 61 year old dog whistle viewers by going into his ‘so what you are saying’ routine’, just to ram home the days propaganda and lies.

      We are laughing at you. Can’t be a good feeling to be the source of ridicule, surely?.

  11. Alan says:

    2014: Vote no and we’ll give you Home Rule.
    2018: You’re not getting Home Rule and we’re going to keep you in the UK, even if it’s against your wishes.

  12. JPJ2 says:

    Most of the chancers who signed the Claim of Right did so in the confident belief that Scotland would never vote for independence.

    Now that they fear that Scotland will declare for independence, it is the old Brit Nat chicanery where Britannia waives the rules.

  13. alanm says:

    They’ve clearly taken their lead from events in Spain. Standby for charges of misusing public funds and sedition being levelled against any Scottish Government ministers who dare to organise an independence referendum without permission from Westminster. Hopefully we’ll avoid the sight of voters being attacked by riot police for simply turning up to exercise their democratic rights.

  14. Welsh Sion says:

    14. (of 20.)

    “Our Way”

    And now, the end is here.
    And so Labour faces the final curtain.
    My friend, I’ll say it clear:
    I’ll state my case, of which I’m certain.
    They’ve lived their life, now it must end;
    They troughed on each and ev’ry highway
    And more, much more than this, they did it their way.

    Regrets? No – they have none, that’s very true.
    Nor a conscience, not worthy of mention
    They served themselves and saw it through, without exemption
    They planned each charted course, each careful step along the byway,
    And more, much more than this, they did it their way.

    Yes, there were times, I’m sure you knew
    When they bit off more than they could chew
    But through it all, when there was doubt,
    They gorged themselves – kept nothing out
    They were in it all, stood for themselves and did it their way.

    They’ve troughed, they’ve laughed and lied.
    We’ve had our fill, our share of losing.
    And now, as tears subside, we find it all so amusing:
    To see Labour falling apart.
    And may I say, not in a shy way,
    “Oh, no, no, no longer them – we’ll do it our way!”

    For what is a man, what has he got?
    If not himself, then he has naught.
    To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels:
    The record shows we took the blows and will do it our way!
    Yes, it will be our way!
    _________

    [With acknowledgements]

    Songs for the New Politics
    2013-2018

  15. Cubby says:

    Starting to think that it is time the SNP put a clear mandate for independence as the one and only policy in their manifesto for Westminster and Holyrood from now on. Will this mean the red and blue Tories will then say Scotland is not getting a vote in any election as Scotland is just a colony.

    The UK was always a dictatorship in all but name as far as Scotland is concerned but the pretence of not being one is being cast aside and the direction of travel is right wing extremism. Red and blue right wingers.

    Message to the SNP – I’m Scottish get me out of this hellish UK.

  16. Whenever a political party claims – it is not a real political party if THAT same party declares that its intention is to DICTATE to the electorate. Dictators are not welcome in Scotland! The electorate in Alba/Scotland is not as unaware as it has been before now… the so-called ‘branch office’ Political parties are being seen for what they truly are. Saor Alba Gu Brath!

    Ewen A. Morrison

    • Patience is a Virtue says:

      ‘This mace is a symbol of the great democratic traditions from which we draw our
      inspiration and our strength.
      At its head are inscribed the opening words of our founding statute:

      “There shall be a Scottish Parliament.‟

      Through long years, those words were first a hope, then a belief, then a promise.
      Now they are a reality.This is a moment anchored in our history………………….

      But today there is a new voice in the land, the voice of a democratic Parliament. A voice to shape Scotland, a voice for the future…………..

      A Scottish Parliament. Not an end: a means to greater ends………………….

      But we will never lose sight of what brought us here: the striving to do right by the people of Scotland; to respect their priorities; to better their lot; and to contribute to the commonweal.
      I look forward to the days ahead when this Chamber will sound with debate,
      argument and passion. When men and women from all over Scotland will meet
      to work together for a future built from the first principles of social justice.’

      Donald Dewar (Labour).

      ‘Lest ye forget’

      I voted (Labour) at the time to hopefully achieve that Scottish Parliament, as did many, I and my family went to the opening day of the Parliament in Edinburgh to witness it.

      It is the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs’ and not the whim of the MP for Islington North or the current Leader of the Scottish Labour Party,

      • Cubby says:

        Fine words from Dewar but like all the labour in Scotland Britnats he did not really mean it.

        Like the vow and the 1979 ref and the broken promises of the 1997 ref Labour in Scotland only demonstrates what it really wants/thinks by its actions. You cannot trust Labour in Scotland to honour its promises to Scotland.

        Makes my blood boil any time I am in Buchanan st, Glasgow and see that statue. Just another Britnat that sold out Scotland.

  17. deelsdugs says:

    It’s one of those speechless moments…they’re falling into deeper and darkest depths with not even a snake charmer’s rope…

  18. The Scottish Government, on behalf of the Scottish people, should hand to the speaker in Westminster an Official Document repealing the Treaty of Union, and then recall all Scottish M.P.s.

    • Guga says:

      Bloody good idea. The English have already broken sections of the Treaty, as for example that fact that we no longer have a Scottish Mint. Bear in mind that the English hold on to Gibraltar by claiming that they have kept to all the conditions in the Treaty of Utrecht.

      Remember also, that we, the Scottish people, do not, under international law, have to have the permission of the English to hold a referendum on regaining our freedom.

      Anyway, when May-hem totally stuffs up the Brexit business and economic chaos ensues, those Scots clinging on to the Empire and Raj may wake up to themselves.

      • Robert Harrison says:

        Yet Gibraltar has almost all powers of an independent nation with only forigen affairs and defence reserved to westminster yet we was promised the same for the no vote yet got nothing the very next day southerners never trust them as there actions show there words are nothing but bullshit

  19. Thomas Valentine says:

    I don’t believe Corbyn has any interest in becoming Prime Minister or winning a UK election out right. Doing this makes sure the SNP will never vote or give him the support necessary to for a minority government. He can even at an extreme push vote to put the Tories back in government “to save the country from the Nationalist separatists”. He would then quite happily for a “National Government” with the Conservative Party. We would expect to hear stuff about the need for national unity during the Brexit period. It would all be explained as defending the national economy and integrity of the UK. They could literally be capable of anything during such a period.

  20. Tol says:

    Labor striping bare the reality of their English colonialism…Scotland as a possession of the English.

    Scotland, RUN!

  21. Bill McDermott says:

    About that Gordon Brewer interview with Ann McGuire, clearly the whole episode and history of the modern Claim of Right did not even occur to them. It should have been obvious to Brewer that the CoR, if it is to have any constitutional meaning, was and is the bedrock of the re-convened Scottish Parliament. Now we have missed a chance to see what lies behind Labour’s real thoughts on self determination. After all they claim to be the midwife of the Parliament.

    I will forgive Sevvi since he is Ulster’s man in Scotland.

  22. The Claim of Right being ignored is the end of the act of Union. We didnt vote NO in 2014. That was a sham. We should declare our occupation over. It is our country and we are taking it back. Our Sovreignty is unbreakable!

  23. Arthur thomson says:

    I will wait for Labour to actually implement this idea before I enjoy it. I have no doubt that they are sufficiently craven but I suspect that even they are not that stupid and certainly not that honest.

    But even in what he has said so far, the soft spoken one has yet again exposed his ideological commitment to Soviet style democracy.

    He and his motley crew of dim-witted Marxists are going to decide whether to permit a Scottish referendum when the time comes.

    They are an anachronism and they are toxic.

  24. daibhidhdeux says:

    Good to have clarity – straight in your face clarity and no more casuistry and obfuscation: BritLab in Scotland along with their their Tory and LibDem confreres in arms are clearly now the remnant brigades of the WM ‘constitutional’ occupation of Scotland along with the British Broadcasting Corporation (the Greens need to clarify their position – disagreements on details are most perfectly acceptable as long as, when push comes to shove, they stand four square with their fellow Scots sovereign citizens; and given their recent solidarity in the Court of Session action against WM, I do not doubt them; but now things are fast quickening, and the time for any semblance of hedging is over. This said without any pressure on them to betray their policies. Far from it. Simply, time for them to move it up a gear in the face of this brazen BritNat Kirk Militant move (Wee Unfree Labour) and back the SNP and the Scottish government in the face of this attempted smoothing of the way for a very British coup in Scotland in order to sustain and reinforce their very ‘British’ AngloBritNat hegemony over their backyard Jocks as their European power gambit falls apart about their well-thumped, cloth ears).

    Time then to judiciously move up from sparring sessions to what is increasingly looking like a bare knuckle, toe to toe contest driven involving thuggish dirty blows delivered by Westminster with a faux gallous swagger after their current hammering in mainland Europe and their consequent slavering appetite to compensate for their democratic thrashing there by means of administering doings all round in these Atlantic Isles to their perceived others and ‘inferiors’. ‘Windrush’ deportations but one contemporary example of such ‘cleansings’ on these isles which have gone on for generations unchecked and excused by their, the establishment’s, mouthpieces. No attempt at scientific historical study or journalism by them – these well ‘sillered’ hagiographers of the Anglo-British Nationalist, imperialist, false unitary state. Simply appalling, time-served English or wannabe English toe-the-line historiographers and gossiping hacks – EH Carr would have wept at the sight of them.

    In parable form and swiftly plus with apologies: Dick McTaggart was my boxing hero as a young man. Technically, intellectually, and in terms of cool courage one of the finest boxers ever produced anywhere (and a template for the greats including Mr Muhammad Ali, if I remember rightly).

    Ms Sturgeon, our FM, somehow reminds me of him, Mr McTaggart, backed up by a truly world class stable of constitutional, political, intellectual, and moral athletes with the same physical and intellectual attributes as these gentlemen as well as a similar raw courage (in its full French sense of the expression and Mr McTaggart’s and Mr Ali’s grasp of the notion).

    I saw his last contest in Kirkintilloch Town Hall with my father – an epic, gentlemanly display by all the contestants/combatants which I can still see in my mind’s eye to this day. Exemplary stuff. Not even remotely thuggish.

    In the balance, I have also witnessed, over the years, young boxers at Miners’ Galas doing their best to emulate these techniques piloted by the Marquis of Queensberry. Somewhat scrappy affairs if without ill-intent. Honestly and fairly contested if flawed due to youthful exuberance. Well refereed with an eye to the young men’s health.

    However, I have also seen raw human animals fighting on the streets surrounded by baying crowds composed of both sexes willing death on the ‘weakest’ human being.

    I trust this denouement to the Union will be marked by the former rather than the latter aspects although, no doubt with elements of the still learning young gladiators making their ingenue way through their stages of controlled combat. But, I wonder, whereupon the spectrum of this ending to this British state will the establishment’s boot finally be put in to Scotland with an assist from the WM referee and judges egged on by their defeat in Europe as well as the historical track record of these AngloBritNat promoters of human division?

    We are about to really find out.

  25. chicmac says:

    Not just ripping up the Claim of Right but also the UN charter, the UDHR, the ICCPR and several other derivative, legally binding treaties, under international law and to which the UK is a signatory.

    In other words, Labour are suggesting that the UK operates outwith international law and becomes a pariah state in order to hold on to Scotland.

    Perhaps they might want to run their latest brain burp past a reputable firm of international lawyers.

  26. graemedbruce says:

    You really have to piss yourself laughing at Labour. They’ve had the biggest open goal they’ll ever have with the Tories imploding over Brexit and they don’t even know where the ball is. Instead they come away with pish like this which is totally irrelevant given they’ll never likely be in power. They are a total fecking irrelevance.

  27. Angry Weegie says:

    It shows that the BritNats believe that they can rewrite the rules whenever they feel like it. It shows that you can’t put any trust in anything that BritNats tell you, in any “promises” made. BritNats own the rule book and they will just change it to fit the then current circumstances and they certainly won’t bother to ask Scotland what they think.

  28. Reblogged this on scottishmomus and commented:
    Labour. Supporting independence worldwide. Except in Scotland. The Claim of Right says otherwise. Scots are sovereign. No one else but us decides. Mr Corbyn at al need to check their history books and perhaps refer to more recent Hansard notes. Labour are dead to Scotland. As are the Tories. Two cheeks of the same arse. Tick tock.

  29. Marconatrix says:

    If SLAB go ahead with this move they will simply have placed their own head on the block. Things could move quite quickly, but fast or slow it’s simply a matter of time before the axe falls. Their credibility is fast waning, what, we ask ourselves, did we ever see in them?

    • Cubby says:

      “Credibility is fast waning” it was never there in the first place with some people who always saw them as useless self serving Britnats e.g. jack the lad Mc Connell, Mc leish, the Alexander brother and sister, Murphy etc etc

      All I ever saw in them was Britnats on the make. Sell out the people of Scotland for personal advancement.

  30. Guga says:

    Keir Hardie must be birlin in his grave.

  31. Les Bremner says:

    I am genuinely confused here.

    Hansard from 4th July this year has the following.

    “Resolved,

    That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.”

    Are we really being told that Labour would overrule a fully debated and agreed resolution of Westminster?

  32. Jock G says:

    I hope that this nonsense makes those who voted no in 2014 or the soft yessrs who jumped ship to SLAB at the last Westminster election wake up and smell the coffee.

  33. Old Jock says:

    I prefer a Realpolitik view. Home Rule excluding defence and foreign affairs. That way the 6% or so can still wave their Union Jacks and kiss the Windsor ring. Forget the plank Leonard, cosy up to Corbyn and whisper in his ear that it was Labour’s idea in the first place.

    In the event of a snap election when the Chequers plan is rejected, the SNP would support Labour on an issue basis provided they introduce a Scottish Home Rule bill in the post xmas session, swiftly followed by a Stormont election.

    An Independent Scottish, non-aligned Republic will come but not yet.

    • No, we go now’, Old Jock.
      You can stick your Home Rule where the Dark Money that Ruth is reported to have amassed is hiding.
      Really, there is no way back.
      Independence is the only option now.
      It is a joke to even talk about Constitutional Conventions and Federalism now.
      It was just yet another Brit Nat wheeze to delay the inevitable.
      I suspect that’s why you are on here now, flogging a risible dead horse.
      Scotland will return to being an independent nation in a matter of months, not some pie and the sky protectorate of England at some dim and distant date buried in the long grass into which you want to kick it.
      You haven’t quite grasped the mood of the moment, We are fighting for our lives now.
      Federalism and Home Rule are laughable distractions.
      In six months time the English Homeland Security will bar me from leaving these shores unless they grant me ‘permission’.
      It’s as serious as that.
      If their is a ‘grip’ handy, catch it now.

      • wm says:

        Well said again Jack, Labour bring out that old chesnut every now and again knowing well that the Blairites (red tories) of their party (the majority of the party’s MPs) will never allow their Federalism.

      • Jason Smoothpiece says:

        You are right Jack we go full on for independence any other nonsense will fail like the vow.
        Lets become a normal country no longer a colony lets do it soon.

  34. Morag says:

    A wee wrinkle here. You say that Labour’s message to Scotland is “You’re just not that important.” Maybe that’s the message they want to convey but it’s not what’s motivating them. If Scotland wasn’t that important this wouldn’t be happening. We’d be more trouble than we’re worth. But, oil, whisky, Faslane, possible Labour-voting constituencies if they can turn the clock back, renewable energy, abundant fresh water, lots of space for Tory-ally aristos to chase stags and grouse – need I say more?

  35. susan says:

    British Nationalist exceptionalism never fails to disgust me but nothing they do or say surprises me.

  36. Eilidh says:

    Just when you think Scottish Labour couldn’t manage to find any other way to look like turkeys voting for Christmas they manage it. Unbelievable they really are clueless. Their arrogance is astounding. How dare they try to overwhelm the will of the people. They dont speak for me and never will.

  37. Iain says:

    Maybe the Branch and its Head Office in London could change their name to Partido Popular.

  38. Andy Anderson says:

    You are correct Paul as are all the other contributors above.

    I think that their only agenda with this action is to try to take some of the Tory crown as the party for the Union. They are presently at 14% in opinion polls in Scotland against 24% for the Tories. I think that this is it. Mind you they have given us a broom to batter them with regarding the Claim of Right.

  39. Clapper57 says:

    Labour are stringing people along with mixed messages on Indy and Brexit.

    Corbyn says MAYBE consider Indy vote Leonard says NOT.

    Some Labour MP’s support people’s vote but McDonnell wants proviso that no option to Remain in EU…however Keir Starmer says opposite of Mcdonnell or rather says MAYBE include Remain option.

    Confused….yep………sounds about right for the fudge party……..their specialty…..sitting on the fence…………only move off fence and make definitive position once see what way wind blows with public opinion.

    No wonder Labour are always in No man’s land politically……….as a party who are so split internally no one knows what they represent and where they stand on anything ……comes down to pro Corbyn and anti Corbyn….that’s Labour’s only position.

  40. Macart says:

    Worth reading.

    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/09/corbyn-day-of-infamy-as-labour-become.html

    Labour’s appalling and anti democratic idiocy means what it says on the tin.

  41. chicmac says:

    OT Brent crude has gone through the $80 mark.

    • One trillion cubic feet of gas found in West Shetland too, chicmac.
      The curse of oil and gas and wave and wind and hydro; no wonder we’re too rich, too big and too clever for England and Jeremy and that Dick Shop Steward to ‘permit’ us to decide to be no longer be a cash colony of England.
      Britnat Scandals are mounting up, aren’t they?
      Miles Briggs embroiled in a sexual harassment stooshie. Two Falkirk Councillors, one Blue, the other Red Tory arrested over ‘planning, improprieties, allegedly, plus a third unnamed man, in Tom Gordon’s Herald Britland report at least. The Councillors are Masons, and members of the OO.
      Anybody got the name of the third accused.
      I’m sure Scoop Cleeg of the Rag-gard will be on the case.
      and the head of the Branch Office Red Tory Party incredibly makes an anti Catholic ‘joke’ at Conference, with the whole world watching on.
      Mum 2B Ruth has disappeared off the face of the Earth again.
      Dark Money and her views on Brexit?
      Is she with Big T, or A Fish Called Gove?
      Let’s see how long it is until the Briggs scandal, and the Falkirk Brit Nat Councillors scandal disappears off the pages of the Dead Tree Scrolls.
      A day, hours, ?
      Meanwhile week 9 of the Salmond Sex Scandal…
      They are falling to bits before our very eyes.

      • chicmac says:

        Aye, but how do we get it into the visual catchment area of the lumpen mass?

        • Bill posters, personal visits to every pensioner to assure them that their pension is safe, and indeed will increase free of Austerity England. We refute Gordon Brown’s lies, and Laugh in Lord Flipper Darling’s face when he appears on th Ministry of Truth and lies about oil reserves and not being allowed to keep our own pound.
          No more Mr and Mrs Nice Guy. Blair Jenkins was too polite.
          We attack attack attack.
          The Proclaimers headlining a concert in Stirling..
          Paid TV segments, and full page adverts in the Dead Tree Scrolls, if they don’t all fall into receivership before then.
          We shout it from the roof tops, chicmac.

          • chicmac says:

            Very true Jack. What I am in a quandary over though, is what tone do we use?

            You see, never having been a member of that great bulk which might be described as those with the attitude ‘politics, schmolitics’ (and who the Hell can blame them?) it is difficult for me to understand what might motivate them and in which way.

            To illustrate.

            You knock at the door and when they open it, politely give them your spiel.

            They say ‘That sounds like it might be interesting but I have this bucket of sand which urgently requires me to put my head back in at the moment. Sorry.’.

            Do you just walk away and hope that subsequently some randomly remembered factoid causes sufficient neural activity to cause them to abandon their ustricised state?

            Or do you do the scary bit?

            i.e. maybe suggest they might want to keep that bucket of sand to hand rather than sticking their head in it because their house is in imminent danger of burning down?

            I’m moving more towards the notion that the instigation of fear/anger could motivate them to go and fact check and hence side with indy.

            But it could be also be a big neg. I just don’t know what is best.

    • Macart says:

      Oh hell no! Another blow for Scotland and Nicola Sturgeon. 😮

  42. DaveM says:

    This is interesting. I was out with friends a couple of weekends ago. The husband of one of my friends started going on about how fascist he thinks the SNP is, and how the UK should have a socialist, Labour government. Given the inherent fascism in this new policy, looks like it’s Labour who are the fascists…

  43. I think we should banish the term SLab from our vocabulary. There is nothing Scottish about the section of the Labour Party that hangs about Holyrood or the people who vote for them. After this most recent show of contempt for Scotland and the right of the Scottish people to determine their own future they can only be called British Labour. When are Labour MSPs in Holyrood going to hand in their notice since they show such contempt for what it does. They are taking money under false pretences.

  44. bedelsten says:

    Standing Orders, or the equivalent within the Labour Party when running national conference, may not be aware of the inherent contradiction of a motion to conference which attempts to lay aside, in effect undermine, the constitution (such that it is). Maybe it is a short-term memory thing. In the unlikely event someone from the Scottish accounting branch of the labour party is reading this, (as opposed to expressing surprise when the evening junket of a night out with the Liver Birds takes them to the docks and a bird-shit encrusted statue) he or she may wish to avail themselves of Hansard for 4 July 2018 which records that the Question was agreed to i.e. the house agreed to the motion, “That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.”

    However, we may wish the Scottish accounting branch of the labour party some success in their venture, in much the same was as one wishes turkeys success when they get to vote, because it is pretty much a win-win situation for those of Scottish independence persuasion; the motion fails and the sovereign right of the Scottish people is further confirmed, it fails and the accounting branch joins the turkeys. Turkeys is surely an apt description.

  45. bedelsten says:

    I do wish there was an edit function – or my proof reading was better…. , it PASSES and the accounting branch joins the turkeys.

  46. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Unfortunately for English Labour the following applies:

    The right of a people to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law, binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter’s norms. It states that a people, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference.

    The no interference bit needs enforcement in my opinion every time the Regime, its media or its Labour collaborators raise the issue of non democracy in Scotland.

    The fact is folk are starting to get it, slowly but getting it all the same.

    The time is near for Scotland to become independent once again.

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