When even astroturf is too common

It’s been a rough couple of weeks for Scotland in Union and its claim to be a grassroots organisation. Poor sowels. There you are, telling anyone who’ll listen that you represent the voices of grassroots supporters of the British state and along come those pesky cybernats with their Scoobie Doo impressions who bust you and prove to the world that not only have you come up with a conspiracy plan that even Enid Blyton would consider somewhat childish, but that the nearest you get to grassroots is a small formal lawn in an extensive estate which is attended to by your private forelock tugging gardener. A lawn, moreover, which only grows because it’s fed with copious amounts of expensive and artificial shit. Scotland in Union is so posh that even astroturf is a bit too common for them.

We have Stu Campbell of Wings Over Scotland to thank for revealing the information about Scotland in Union’s funding, and uncovering the truth that the organisation operates on large donations from a relatively small number of rich and well connected people. Independence organisations have to crowdfund, seeking small donations from large numbers of people, but Scotland in Union is backed by lords, ladies, and lairds. An organisation which is about to host a fund raising “Robbie Burns” supper, is predominantly funded by the kind of people that the Bard decried as a parcel of rogues. Many of us in the independence movement have suspected this for some while, but it took Wings Over Scotland to give us the truth.

Stu Campbell is a controversial figure in the independence movement for some, but until his critics are prepared to do the job that he does, to do it better, and to do it in a way and expressed in a language that makes it accessible to your average Scottish punter, he’s going to have an important role to play in this movement. You don’t have to agree with everything he says to recognise the value of the work he does.

It’s clear that Scotland in Union is an organisation in meltdown. First off a bunch of zoomers who were too frothy even for an organisation that counts certain splenetic individuals who shall remain nameless amongst its prominent supporters split off and formed a new pro-Brexit group of their own. And in the process they made some risible videos inviting separatist scum to come along for a wee chat if they think they’re hard enough. That split all by itself tells you that there are serious tensions running right through the very heart of Scotland in Union. For an organisation that claims to promote the value of unity its members are pretty poor at staying in union with one another.

Then Scotland in Union members were caught out in a wee conspiracy to bombard newspapers with letters, pretending to come from ordinary concerned individual citizens and not as part of some organised campaign. Naturally lots of the letters get published, since a very large majority of Scotland’s press outlets support the Unionist line so the letters agree with the editors’ preferences. But they got busted by an independence supporter who had wormed his way into the confidence of certain Scotland in Union members. The result was that their letter writing campaign turned them into a laughing stock. For an organisation which spends so much time claiming that the independence movement is a cult, they’ve adopted some suspiciously cult-like tactics of their own, spreading the word of the union in the Press and Journal, the Courier, the Airdrie and Coatbridge Advertiser, the Shetland Times, Pravda, and the Ouagadougou Telegraph.

Now we’ve discovered that Scotland in Union operates largely on Tory money, on money from the rich and well connected, the powerful and the titled. It fundraises in elite London clubs, and at shooting parties for the wealthy. It’s hardly surprising that people who have done very well out of the British state want to see the British state continue its rule in Scotland.  There are more titles amongst Scotland in Union donors than there are on the shelves of a local library that’s just been closed due to Tory cuts.

The funding strategies of Scotland in Union reveal the uncomfortable truth about those who campaign against Scottish independence – they are engaged in a fundamentally conservative project, a fundamentally reactionary enterprise. Opposing independence isn’t about making Scotland a better place for all its citizens, it’s about preserving the privilege and wealth of those who already enjoy privilege and wealth.  Anything else they tell us is just a Vow on the front page of the Daily Record.

However the really interesting story here isn’t the predictable truth that much of the group’s funding comes from rich Tories and landed gentry, it’s that there is someone high up within the organisation who is so monumentally pissed off, fed up, angry, and frustrated that they’re prepared to reveal its embarrassing financial secrets to Stu Campbell, Vile Cybernat Prime himself. Whoever tipped Stu off to the existence and location of the information had to have had a position of some responsibility in order to know how to access data which is sensitive and confidential. It speaks volumes about the amateurish and incompetent nature of Scotland in Union that the data remained accessible on a public Google Drive folder, unencrypted and not protected by a password even after a very public falling out amongst members of the organisation which had led to some of them breaking away to form a rival group.  There will most certainly be other tensions and other arguments within Scotland in Union which have not – yet – seen the light of day.

Still, I am sure that our fearless traditional print media will be on the case just as they are whenever independence supporters have a wee spat on Twitter. Oh. Right. They’ll probably tell us there is no story here, as the person who tipped off Stu Campbell had really intended to email the Campbell who’s Duke of Argyll instead.

Naturally the implosion of Scotland in Union has created a great disturbance in the Yoonstream – which is the technical term for the batshit end of British nationalist support on social media. Twitter troll and journo pal Brian Spanner has even been trying to take the moral high ground, but sadly for him he doesn’t know where it is.  [A wee hint for Brian – it’s about 3,000 metres above your head, love.]

What has come to light about Scotland in Union hasn’t come thanks to the traditional Scottish media. It’s come through social media, and through the efforts of online independence campaigners. What we’ve learned is that Scotland in Union is a microcosm of the British state which it seeks to protect. It’s elitist and top down, but it’s also amateurish, shambolic, childishly inane, and it’s dysfunctional and riven with petty jealousies and rivalries. But most importantly of all, it exists to protect the interests of the rich and the powerful. It’s entirely appropriate that a British state which isn’t fit for purpose is defended by an organisation which is equally unfit.


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89 comments on “When even astroturf is too common

  1. Brian Watson says:

    I wonder if they will toast the parcel of rogues at their “traditional” Burns supper. ” Here’s to them , wha’s like them, dampt few and better deid? “

  2. Morag says:

    I thought Stu told us who the mole was. Was I imagining it?

    • weegingerdug says:

      Yes – you must have been imagining it. I only surmised that there must be a mole because that’s the only plausible way that Stu could have found out about the existence of the information.

      • SandyW says:

        Wings over Scotland’s latest post confirms that the data was indeed leaked. It also mentions that Bella Caledonia (who also received further leaked data) have speculated on who the mole and source of the leak was.

  3. Marconatrix says:

    So where, I wonder, does this leave so called ‘Scottish’ Labour unionists? Do they really really want to be seen associated with this mob of freeloaders? I imagine their silence will be quite deafening …

    • Och, Marco, Anas let the cat out of the bag. His ‘Labour’ stands for ‘a country for the few, not the many.’
      Now repeat after me, Anas, ‘The vessel with the pestle, has the pellet with the poison, the chalice from the palace s the brew that is true.’
      Sarwar’s Court Jester moment of 2017. The Man Who Would Be King indeed.

      They couldn’t even edit a pamphlet properly, never mind run the country.

      This from Treeza’s Not The Quuen’s Speech’ address to the Nation(England, because it’s all about schools, hospitals, Police, and celebrating winning a war 100 years ago, when England forcibly occupied a third of the world.)
      “In her message, Mrs May said 2017 had been a “year of progress” for the UK and insisted that the divisions of the European Union referendum were in the past as “most people just want the Government to get on and deliver a good Brexit, and that’s exactly what we are doing”.

      ‘Most people’?
      62% are ‘most people’ Up here, Big T.
      Comments on one side of a postage stamp pls.
      I’d forgotten that as we stagger into 2018 it gives the Brit Nat Oligarchy 12 tortuous months to ‘celebrate’ the wanton slaughter of 18 million young men and women on European battlefields as two of Victoria’s inbred offspring played a game of Emperor Monopoly funded by the same Big Money, Industrialists, and Privileged who are determined to retain the Scottish colony as their private Recreation Park, to shoot grouse, hunt the stag, and fish the salmon.
      I recall Lord Darling and JK Rowling attending a Better Together Fundraiser for the Rich.
      Posh prizes for the rich folk. It raised hunners o’ thoosands for the No Campign, without a hint of irony in the plush Edinburgh Banqueting Hall,
      Normally, I eschew reductionism.
      However, it is beginning to feel a bit like ‘Them versus Us’, but I don’t know whether I’m a ‘Them’ or an ‘Us’.
      My brain hurts.

    • Robert Harrison says:

      If it was an advantage theyd be backing them but its more of a hinderance hence the distance from the siu by the 3 english partys now siu has become desperate they are at each other they think like 18 century english turn anything thats considered a hinderance (Although english people still think like that in the 21st century Westminster being the worst next to fascist farage) oh if only every hater of independence was a conservative this would be so easy to end them by crushing them with there lies.

  4. I have been keeping some money aside just in case it is needed to support the legal fees for Wings and Andy Wightman. It’s probably more necessary than ever right now for those of us who can afford only small donations, to be ready to use our very limited resources, to stand behind those who have the courage and the temerity to stand up for us. We are many, they are few. And those few are defined by their greed and their lack of humanity. They are truly the 21st century ‘parcel o’ rogues’. The many should organise an appropriate event for 25th January 2018. Could you suggest something to which we could all contribute?

  5. Anne Martin says:

    Aw Paul, are you really telling me that the Ouagadougou Telegraph is another Britnat rag?!!

  6. craigevans15 says:

    Well done again Paul, give the dug another biscuit

  7. gerry parker says:

    Although the ‘Tizer did have a few Yoonie letters, it also published a fair amount from Independinestas, fairly well balanced I thought.

  8. Les Bremner says:

    This is an opportunity on a plate.

    Looking at it coldly and logically, they must see a need for a lot of money. The question then becomes ‘What do they plan to do with it?’.

    Apart from bribes, over which we have no control and I suggest that we don’t want to do that from our side, the main use I can see is advertising.

    Could I suggest that we use this forum to work out what we believe the other side are acquiring funds for? Having done that, we can work out which Indy organisation is best placed to mount a counter attack, and then crowdfunding becomes the route to the counter attack. The crowdfunding for the Alistair Carmichael action raised £216,950. We can match the Yoons. But we need to know what it is to be spent on and who will administer it.

    My money (pun intended) is on the Yoons wanting a propaganda campaign.

    However, what do we all think?

    • Andy Anderson says:

      I think you are correct Les. As you know earlier 2017 the SNP asked for donations to the indy fund and raised about £460,000 against a target of £1,000,000.

      I think we need to have a general fund for this fight but who administers it and defacto owns it. There lies the rub. We may al have to dig deep when the referendum comes and support several groups.

      • Les Bremner says:

        My personal belief is that it should be one national body coordinating a uniform billboard, TV and Bus advertising campaign presenting a firm, united, message.

        The Scottish Independence Convention strikes me as a good candidate.

    • Illy says:

      They’re a pack of tories – they honestly believe that money can buy you love, and they instinctively build war-chests with no idea what they are going to be spent on.

      I don’t think they actually know yet what the money is for, other than to be a big pot of money for them to cuddle in the night.

      • Les Bremner says:

        I disagree. They and their like have had centuries of experience in lies, deceit, propaganda and threats both real and implied.

        They know exactly what it is for. We must out-think them and then mount a counter attack.

    • Mark Robertson says:

      Start NO BRIT COIN !

    • Mark Robertson says:

      Why would you want to give them the heads up on an internet site?

      • Les Bremner says:

        In order to match the amount of money which the Unionists will have, we need to have mammoth fundraising and crowdfunding.

        Nobody is going to contribute unless they know what will be done with their contributions. Therefore, there must come a time when our intentions must become very public.

        If you have a better path, I would love to hear about it.

  9. Evan says:

    I don’t follow the “bigger story” part about internal turmoil and how the leak must have come from a pissed off SIU official.

    There’s no evidence for that is there?
    Isn’t it more likely that their security policies are a joke and that the mole, having volunteered to do something that required access to some information, was foolishly given the keys to everything.

  10. theweedetour says:

    A great piece of work by Stu, You’re correct though, none of the mainstream media will cover it. Perhaps The National, when the legalities are sorted. What a parcel o rogues. Still nice to see SIU in meltdown. I suspected they were being funded by such people. Nice work once again. Have a lovely New Year.

  11. diabloandco says:

    I was thinking of the French Revolution as I read the pieces – I have always been fond of the French and their willingness to take to the streets or burn sheep to ensure the government knows for whom they work.

    Happy New year Paul and thank you for my relative sanity!

  12. Graham says:

    What surprises me is that the story on Wings about the people funding SiU was removed.
    Surely these contributors should have the courage of their convictions?
    I know what convictions I’d like to see them have.

  13. gus1940 says:

    Given that this flood of leaked information on SiU has appeared so soon after the breaking off of the Splinter Group is surely an indicator of where the leaks originated.

  14. Thank you Paul, what a year 2017’s been for you, and of course for Ginger. Glad you managed a wee festive break. Look forward to more of the same in 2018 – it’s going to be a big year, and you’ve a huge role to play. xx

  15. A paddy in fife says:

    Hope you have a wonderful new year Paul, keep up the good work,onwards and upwards to the promised land

  16. Alasdair Macdonald. says:

    In this sentence, Mr Kavanagh, you have encapsulated the reason the well-heeled are pro-union:

    “Opposing independence isn’t about making Scotland a better place for all its citizens, it’s about preserving the privilege and wealth of those who already enjoy privilege and wealth.”

    Unfortunately, a substantial number of ‘Ragged Trousered Philanthropists’ still support them and continue to support the Tories, too. I do not use this term to demonstrate my intellectual superiority, because I can understand how people who feel they are getting pushed from pillar to post, who feel they have only a tenuous control over their own lives, want to hold on to what little they have. I have been there. I saw my mother’s hair going prematurely white worrying about coping. I have seen decent people waste themselves with bevvy to obliterate the nightmares. This what Project Fear was about, had been well before 2014 and continues at present. In Brexit, we had competing versions of Project Fear and the more venal won worked, unfortunately.

    Stlll, we must keep our heads up, eyes-on-the-prize, optimism-of-the-will and ‘work as if we are in the early days of a better nation’.

    All the best to you and your canine amigo, Mr Kavanagh.

    You and others, by debunking the lies and presenting alternatives are doing a great job.

  17. bedelsten says:

    The Rev.dot Stu started 2017 suggesting it would be boring (wrong) but has ended on a high note; investigative journalism as not practiced by the dead-tree-scrolls.

    I mistakenly (!) left the web page open after I went to bed last night, so a copy of it was still there this morning despite having been taken down. The unprotected GoogleDrive spreadsheet has (had?) lists of potential donors, leave campaign donors, Scottish rich list of 2012, liberal donors, labour donors, Scottish referendum donors and conservative donors, and it is likely that one or more people in those lists will be unamused at having the information released into the wild. The data protection act commissioner may have something to say on a) the sort of data being stored (e.g. was it necessary to record ‘kids’?) and b) the [lack of] security of the data.

    The GoogleDrive folder will, probably, have had within it more than just the one spreadsheet and a dump of data, possibly from there, has found its way to BellaCaladonia.

    There are some downsides to this fiasco: the British Unionist movement may get its act together, funds previously going to and being wasted by SiU may be put to more productive use, things may get more sinister.

    On which note, best of wishes to Paul and all followers of the dug, and a happy new year when it arrives.

    • Marconatrix says:

      IIRC Wings got the data dump unsolicited, along with a number of other organisations, not just Bella. My guess would be that the initial contact with WoS was a case of testing the water. If he wouldn’t publish it, then who would? Once the cat was out of the bag (or the ferret out of the sack??), and nicely confirmed when WoS got a threatening letter from Sue, Grabbit & Runn, Solicitors for SiU, then the Source opened up on all channels.

      Like others though, I wonder just how extreme the establishment might get if it really feels threatened. Cornered rats etc.

  18. Well done, once again, Paul. A rousing note on which to end 2017 and a rallying cry for the start of 2018. Bliadhna Mhath Ùr to you, Peter and the Wee Dug (not forgetting Sam) …. and to all who read and contribute to these threads.

    • Macart says:

      Thanks Wendy, but see my post to Jack above. 🙂

      • That is sad reading, Sam. I enjoy your “guest” posts very much. I hope and trust that we shan’t be losing your input in these comment threads, though? That would be a tragedy!

        • Macart says:

          Wild horses couldn’t stop me Wendy. 😉

          Some personal obligations reared their head over the past week or so which can’t be ignored and will take up a good deal of my family’s attention and care. How and ever, as I said to Jack, I’m not a writer or a blogger. Just a ranter wi banter. 😀

          I’ll still be able to have a good rant outside the digital world and post a comment or two just like everyone else during a daily read.

          A good new year to you.

  19. Dan Huil says:

    Thank god for the internet. Scotland’s media, The National excepted, is an utter disgrace.

  20. izzie says:

    Really worried about Stu’s safety. Cant forget what happened to Willie Macrae

    • Alasdair Macdonald says:

      I have a retired lawyer friend, an eminently decent, humane and fair minded individual who was a colleague of Mr MacRae, and who is convinced there was no foul play. Mr MacRae, sadly, had a serious alcohol problem and other stressful matters in his life at the time of his death. So, my friend’s view is that suicide was the cause.

  21. Gavin C Barrie says:

    The SUI “Robbie Burns” supper, will it now be a masked ball with a redacted guest list, anonymity assured?

  22. Macart says:

    A good new year when it comes folks. All the very best. 🙂

  23. Roderick Skinner says:

    Oh WGD – you tell it just as it is. Here’s wishing you a happy and healthy and prolifically article-rich New Year. Best wishes Roderick Skinner

  24. Happy New Year Paul, large dram doffed in the direction of the east end.

  25. MollyMcC says:

    May 2018 bring Health, Happiness, to yin and aw who publish here….
    Slainte

  26. Fiona Laing says:

    Happy New Year to Paul and Ginger and thanks for all you have done and are doing for the cause of Scottish Independence.

  27. Alba woman says:

    Happy New Year to WGD and all who meet at his top class site…..Hope to meet you all at the Independence Party !

  28. Andy Anderson says:

    YES

  29. Cat Agatha says:

    When I was a student, a group of my friends would send letters to the Sunday Post every week on ridiculous subjects. Our aim was to fill the letters page with only our letters, the topics ranging from pouring second day’s broth over grass to keep badgers away to memories of the old ferry from Golspie to Macduff to a budgie flying up the kilt of a bridegroom.

    Real juvenile stuff.

    But we never fully got into the excitement and Hitchcockian intrigue of the Green Ink Gang and their bosses at Scotland And Onions. If only we had fantasised about being on a mission, we could have imagined ourselves as a Vichy version of the Maquis – kind of like the Milice. Not so much Violette Szabo, more Julius Streicher.

    It’s sad when people’s worlds disappear and they are bound to try and stop it.

    But do they have to make such fucking arses of themselves!?

    More, please…

    • Cat, you’d need to master ‘Sunday Post/People’s Friend’ speech, if your aim was to write like a local yokel, like the evil collaborating Milice.
      Marriages go through a ‘rocky patch’ in the Post so as not to use offensive language like ‘divorce’ an upset the Blue Rinse churchgoers.
      There are great swathes in the North East who are frozen in time, circa 1959.

    • Marconatrix says:

      “… a budgie flying up the kilt of a bridegroom.”
      Literally ROTFLMAF from that. Now that is real news 😉

  30. According to independent statistics, 2,500 citizens on these isles will die of state engineered neglect this week, which includes 100 Scots citizens killed to reward the rich, and build a train that will get the Southern English from Birmingham to London ten minutes earlier.

    “Out with the old, in with the new,
    Rise up slumbering Scotland,
    There is work to do.”

    This time, this time, we take our country back from the oppressor, the elite, the Oligarchy.

    Mrs May urges us to be ‘courteous’ while she and that ridiculous little woman, the Dead Tree Scrolls’ Brit Nat of the Year, Ruth Davidson, with the full collaboration of Corbyn, the death grey faced Leonard, Rennie the wooden zombie, and a sleekit Cable, kill 120,000 citizens every year. and JK Rowling bids for a safari holiday to Kenya..

    It is not ‘just politics’.
    The Tom Gordons and Gordon Brewers of the Brit Nat Propaganda Pack can no longer assuage what remnants of what passes as their conscience or journalistic integrity by arguing that we can always vote them out in five years time if we don’t like what they are doing, and all that English Parliament gunk.
    These Scotland Deniers, these vile creatures, yes, I ‘discourteously’ brand them ‘vile creatures’ and blame them directly for the deaths of the poor, the disabled, the elderly, and the infirm, while they dine with their Masters at the banqueting tables, do not give a damn about Scotland and irts people.,
    The 1st January 2018 heralds in the beginning of the real war.

    No more phoney war.
    People are dying because we are ruled by a foreign Government in England.

    Independence by any means may be the only way to resolve this slaughter, some might argue.
    How any former Labour, or Lib Dem supporter can stand by and continue to vote for English dominance and subjugation while their fellow Scots citizens are dying in their tens of thousands of state induced poverty, penury, and desertion, is unforgivable.
    It goes beyond guilt by association.

    Vote Yoon and your hands are as bloody as those of the Red Blue and Yellow YOOK insurgents.

    • Les Bremner says:

      I agree. Without resorting to physical violence, we must change our approach. It is time to end the platitudes and the courtesies. I have had enough.

      Those on the Yes side tend to be placatory, logical and firm but gentle. Those on the No side tend to deal in unsubstantiated statements and personal attack while concealing their sociopathic self centred disregard for anyone else. Sometimes, however, the guard slips and it is revealed.

      I had lunch recently in Glasgow with nine other men, all of whom I have known for years. We were at one long table, and I was in conversation to my left when I feel a hand over my left ear. The owner of the hand said that he wanted to protect me from what Bob was saying. I asked Bob to repeat it and he said that Nicola Sturgeon was destroying the NHS. I asked Bob for for the logic behind his statement and the reply was that regular blood tests had been discontinued. When I politely pointed out that the waiting times in A&E in Scotland are significantly better than in England and that England is pursuing a policy of selling off their NHS, he turned away and said that he was not going to argue, he was not going to discuss it. The point here is that I was deliberately brought into the conversation, then I was excluded when I dealt with facts to counter his personal attack on Nicola Sturgeon.

      As it happened, I had made the others aware before we met that I had an appointment after lunch, so I left. On my way back to rejoin the others for a beer, I walked along Argyll Street and saw a person sitting on the (literally) freezing wet pavement under a thin blanket. There was no begging cup, and the face was not visible. However, the body was not just shivering from the cold, it was actually shaking. When I asked what he would do if I gave him money, the answer was ‘cappuccino’ so I bought him one.

      I know whose company I would prefer to be in. I know where my loyalties lie, and they are not with the dismissive sociopaths.

      It is time to take the gloves off. It is time for vigorous debate. It is time to make very public the very real harm being done to innocents in the sixteenth wealthiest nation on the planet. We will not win the next referendum by being nice to the enemy.

      • Andy Anderson says:

        I have been in exactly your situation a few times last year. I now no longer let people block me out the conversation. I let them know that intelligent people are open to alternative news and raise my eyebrows.

        • Les Bremner says:

          I agree. Nobody, whether High Court Judge or Dustman, should be blocked out by anybody. Therefore, I let the person in question, and the others within earshot, know that it was unacceptable to make unsubstantiated remarks and then turn away. He remained turned away until I left.

          This was by no means the first time, which is why I have modified my response technique for 2018.

          I recently asked a Conservative friend of many years standing what he thought of the Rape Clause. His response was “Shit happens, you just get on with it.” You cannot reason with mentality like that. Even when told of my experience listening to a young woman who had just been raped, it made absolutely no difference. They live in bubbles, they care for nobody but themselves even though others are suffering.

      • Well said, Les.
        Scotland will die if we allow this lot to drag us out of the European Union.
        It’s that serious.
        We attack, attack, attack.
        Tom Gordon’s piece in the Herald today where he merely misquotes a Grauniad article sums it up
        He gets big bucks for cutting and pasting lies.
        Traitors one and all.
        Still as long as the Yooks are happy with 260,000 Scots children in poverty 500,000 fellow citizens in perpetual Ruth Davidson poverty, and the money keeps going into the bank…

        I intend to list the Rape of the Poor to reward the rich at every turn this year.
        All you good Christians who voted Blue Red and Yellow Tory; the blood of 120,000 dead are on your hands.
        But a lot of you know that, and accept that as you sit atop the heap like dung beetles feeding off the suffering of others.
        I mean it. No more ‘courteous’ politeness.
        Westminster is slaughtering the innocents while enjoying safaris in Kenya.
        I am in a cold rage which will not dissipate until Scotland is Free.
        Besides, Les, at our age, I doubt that we could lift a pike staff, never mind wield it as a weapon.
        As long as the Chief gives us the strength to lift a pint of the creamy stout to our lips, then all is not lost.
        Hope you and yours a good one, mon brave.

        • Marconatrix says:

          “… at our age, I doubt that we could lift a pike staff, never mind wield it as a weapon.”
          I earnestly pray it will never come to that, but if needs must … and the time for pints is surely when we’ve creamed them and sent them homewards?

          • Marco, a wee personal aside between Les and me.
            We had a few in a Glasgow inn recently and spoke of rebellion and sedition.
            We hope to repeat it soon down his way Wemyss Bay soon,
            You’re welcome to join us.

            I think of Guinness as an aide to communication. It oils the old voice box, otherwise normally I wouldn’t touch the stuff.
            Yes that is the band in the distance playing :- ‘Believe it if you like’.

            • Les Bremner says:

              For those of you in Cheltenham who really wish you were at home at this festive season, we are not talking of physical violence. However, if you want to send watchers to our next beer, I will buy them a drink.

            • Marconatrix says:

              No hard feelings, I can’t make it but if I’m drinking it will usually be Guinness, so please have one for me and give my love tae Glesga where I worked for a number of years, back in the day. Have a good year both of youse, and hopefully many of them.

  31. emilytom67 says:

    unfortunately les “they” will not listen they are afraid to face the truth,I am unfortunately talking about die hard labour people/working class folks who cannot given the means cast of the chains from their bodies/minds and scales from their eyes,they are like the Orangemen living in the past living in a bubble afraid of the future with no hopes no dreams not for them not for their children/grandchildren.

  32. Marconatrix says:

    OT : Is there any online discussion of this (puzzling?) (significant??) video? Comments on the YouTube site are sadly disabled. It seemed to be important and interesting but TBH the way he drones on I _literally_ fell asleep in the middle, so even though I have some background in computer stuff, I’m a bit vague as to exactly what yer man is proposing. So if there’s a thread on the go somewhere … 🙂

    • Anne Martin says:

      I fear that there will be very few people who will listen to this right through, no matter how important his message might be!

      • Marconatrix says:

        Indeed, I think the ‘meat’ is there somewhere around the middle, but I’d really need a transcript to pin it down.
        He seems to be claiming that along with others he’s set up a cheat-proof web-based system to holding an Indy Ref. if need be without the help of any government. In which case if a majority is achieved then as constitutionally the Scottish People are Sovereign it should be a done deal. Interesting, but how do you restrict voting to the ‘Scottish People’ seeing as until Indy is achieved there is no legal definition of who is a Scots citizen … so all a bit chicken and egg? Food for thought at least though?

        • Les Bremner says:

          There has not been, there is not, and there never will be, a cheat-proof computer program. Suggesting the addition of the complexity of a web-based system makes me want to curl up on the floor clutching my chest and laughing uncontrollably.

          Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, deviousness is in the mind of a programmer.

          Just, please, let nobody suggest that IDox is the acknowledged centre of competence in such matters and that everything will be good.

          • Marconatrix says:

            Ha-ha! I have been a devious programmer, but I admit I’ve been out of the loop for a while now. To the best of my understanding what was being suggested was an interacting distributed system located around the net and in different countries, with a high level of duplication and redundancy, so that each unit validated the others. I cannot judge how realistic that might be. Is there anyone out there who knows the ins and outs of this stuff so as to provide an independent unbiased (???) assessment?

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