Oligarchs-R-Us

Well that’s it then. Remember during the 2014 independence referendum when JK Rowling said that if Scotland voted No we’d be in the position of the spouse who had threatened divorce but who had then agreed to stay, so we’d be in an incredibly strong position and have all our concerns and desires carefully listened to and taken into account? Well how’s that working out then? It was a complete fantasy, but coming as it did from a fantasy writer that shouldn’t be a great surprise.

The people who voted No in 2014 have been taken for mugs. England’s Tories have made it perfectly clear that they care deeply about the European Union, but they don’t give a shit about Scotland. It’s not that Scotland is low down on their list of priorities, it doesn’t even figure at all. Despite what the Better Together campaign told No voters in 2014, Britain doesn’t love you. It doesn’t care for you. It doesn’t value you as an equal partner in this family of nations. You’re just a useful tool to help maintain the power of Westminster. And Westminster doesn’t give a toss about you, just like it doesn’t give a toss about those of us who voted Yes.

Theresa May’s speech today makes it perfectly clear that not only is she not giving any consideration to the concerns and desires of Scotland, she doesn’t even know or care what they are. This Westminster government is not giving serious consideration to the proposals of the Scottish government, they filed them in the bin, unread. And after doing that she said that she wants the country to come together. She wants the UK to come together after she’s proposed to implement the most extreme right wing version of Brexit imaginable. She’s taken the concerns of the 48% who voted to remain in the EU and she’s trashed them. She’s put a bomb under the Irish peace process and will sacrifice Northern Ireland to the gods of neoconservatism. She’s told Scotland to get back into the shortbread tin. She doesn’t want unity. She doesn’t want collaboration and cooperation between the nations of the UK. She wants blind obedience. She wants submission. She wants to strangle us in red white and blue bunting.

This Tory government is leading the UK into a catastrophic Brexit that risks enormous damage to the British economy, with the consequent loss of jobs, financial security, and diminished life chances and opportunities for the vast majority of us who, unlike Theresa, aren’t married to multimillionaire investment fund managers. A special deal for Scotland isn’t going to happen. All May wants from Scotland is that we put up and shut up. Well she can think again because we will not be silenced.

The future for the UK is a Brexit that’s as hard as the heart of the Tory MP who once complained that homeless people were littering the street outside the opera. The country will be turned into a tax haven, social protection, workers’ rights, social security and the NHS will all be trashed and burned. We’re staring at a low wage low tax economy, where a minority enrich themselves and the majority struggle in poverty. What May told us today is the very worst form of Brexit imaginable. A heartless Brexit. A Brexit without compassion. A Brexit without care, consideration, or common humanity. All of our futures are now hostage to a Tory party that is now indistinguishable from Ukip.

They’ve had seven months to come up with this. Seven months during which they were supposed to be developing a plan to negotiate with the rest of the EU, instead they’ve been working on a way of selling an extreme right Brexit to the British media. Their negotiating strategy is to tell the EU that they’ll cut taxes, cut benefits, cut social care provision and ditch regulations on business if they don’t get access to the single market while still restricting immigration. It’s like Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles putting a gun to his own head, because the only people who will suffer from this strategy will be the working classes of Britain. The rich, as ever, will be just fine. The Tories’ great plan for the future of this blessed Union is to turn it into a ruthless racist rightwing bunting bedecked theme park for tax avoiders. Oligarchs R Us.

There’s now no doubt that the only way Scotland can avoid this fate is by holding a second independence referendum and voting for independence. Labour in Scotland is still opposed. Despite being presented with the absolute worst case scenario possible for Brexit, despite it being as clear as the look of scorn on May’s face that Scotland’s wishes are dismissed and traduced, Kezia Dugdale still thinks it’s not an excuse for another referendum. It does make you wonder what Kezia would consider a reason for another referendum, because right now it looks like there are limbo dancers who are less supine than Kezia. She’s still pitching her idea that Scotland within the UK could control its own immigration policy, despite the Tories ruling it out, despite her own party leader ruling it out. No wonder her party has become an irrelevance. They won’t stand up for Scotland. They won’t stand up for the working classes. They don’t even have the dignity to stand up for themselves. Labour in Scotland is what happens when the Tories have screwed you so hard that you’ve got a sore throat.

Labour in Scotland’s leadership might have abandoned all hope. They might have surrendered to a destructive hard Brexit. They might be complicit in the damage that the Tories are created, but they rest of us won’t be. We will not be silenced. We will not be ignored. Our voice will be heard.

There will be another independence referendum and this time the stakes have never been higher. Scotland either wins its independence or we die a death of a thousand Tory cuts, broken and bleeding as our society is destroyed, our futures trashed, our opportunities lost. We can be ignored, sidelined, patronised, insulted and abused, or we can look to a future that the people of Scotland determine and shape for ourselves. Let’s get organised. Let’s get going. Let’s get loud. The UK is over, and it was the Unionists themselves who destroyed it. Independence is coming.

Audio version of this blog post, courtesy of Sarah Mackie @lumi_1984 https://soundcloud.com/occamshaver/wee-ginger-dug-17th-jan-2017

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48 comments on “Oligarchs-R-Us

  1. Alex Ussher says:

    Will the scottish people so vote though, and if so on time? To get into the EU easily would require a exit, it seems, before the end of the 2y A50 countdown, so say May 2019. Seems a big ask.

    • benmadigan says:

      earlier may be needed . In my view summer/autumn 2018 is probably best to be quite sure of Scotland continuing as an EU state.
      Depends on how the negotiations go but Scotland may need to be ready even sooner if England pulls the plug unexpectedly.
      One thing is sure – there’ll be no chance of any IndyRef2 after England has finished with the EU negotiations.

      PS Excellent post Paul – one of your best!

  2. Macart says:

    Right on the nail Paul. I knew it was going to be a speech with nothing good for Scotland in it, but OMG!

    What really takes me to the fair is the rank, and I do mean RANK dishonesty and hypocrisy of the establishment politicians and their drones. Their better together campaign now lies in absolute ruins and STILL they bang the political union drum. They simply don’t give a shit what their system does to the people of Scotland, the agreements they break or the suffering they cause. They’re still all about the ends justifying the means.

    Just to be clear though, we weren’t given a choice whether to opt out of the EU vote. When some wingnut claims we voted ‘as the UK’ simply ask them if there were other options available. What we, as the Scottish electorate, were guaranteed as part of the UK in 2014, was that we would remain members of the EU if we voted no. Indeed we were expressly told that this was the only way we could guarantee continued membership.

    Less than two years later that membership was exposed to a referendum and is now under threat of being revoked against the express wishes of the majority of the Scottish electorate. In short?

    The assurance was a lie.

    HMG lied. Better Together lied. The media who willingly helped sell and/or endorsed that assurance lied.

    In pursuit of their own political agenda, HMG ran a bus through the outcome of the 2014 referendum and not for the first time over that period, but hopefully it will be the last. The Scottish electorate are to be forced into an action against their democratic wishes according to Westminster government. THAT is now a FACT beyond any doubt.

    However, IMV this isn’t just about the EU and never was. It’s about pledges and assurances given to a population in exchange for… a vision, a settlement?

    Those pledges and assurances weren’t just broken. They’ve been shattered wilfully and with no regard for the collateral damage done to the Scottish electorate or the political union. The tories EU divisions and pissing contest were that much more important you see. Attending to their pressing UKIP problem may also have had an impact on their thinking, but the constitutional and economic stability of the UK? Their recent pledges and assurances to Scotland’s electorate? Not so much.

    Where is that vision of partnership, of bettertogetherness in all of this? Where is the promised equality and respect in the introduction of EVEL, broad shouldered aid in times of economic hardship, in austerity ideology UK, the Scotland Bill settlement, the EU referendum?

    You could go through quite a list of those assurances which have been broken and/or ignored in the past two years, but the underlying theme is TRUST. Trust given and trust broken.

    The reality of Westminster government and politics as it is practised UK style.

    IMO that is why there will be another referendum. Not on or over the issue of the EU, but because the trust given by the Scottish electorate was repaid with a litany of broken pledges a lack of respect and a mountain of arrogant contempt.

    • John 57 says:

      Excellent post Macart , I listened to T M proclamation today and it reminded me of Camerons sermon on the 19th September . It made me sick, angry then I started to smile and laugh out loud ( no I wasn’t going insane or flipping out ) I began to think what would the no voters be thinking now , definitely not ” better together ” ” pool and share of resources” Naw . Maybe, just maybe, the penny might have dropped that this ” Union ” is over, finished Deid !!! .The last Independence movement was slow to pick up momentum but I think Indy2 once started will attract all the “sit on the fencers” as they have realised our Scottish opinion, wants and dreams mean NOTHING to Torys, M S M etc etc , Please let us get out of this Rancid Festering Union.

    • Therapymum says:

      Macart, I agree with all of that. The problem is persuading people to change the status quo. When the unknown is uncertain and scary, people will go for what they know because it’s safe and familiar, even if they don’t really believe in it. Whatever pledges have been broken, the familiar, however treacherous and venal, may feel safer than independence. Probably for all the wrong reasons, England and Wales voted “Out” in the referendum. They decided to go where no man has gone before and to hell with the consequences. Can we persuade the 55% to do the same? There isn’t much time, and we will have to have extremely good answers to the parts of the Indyref1 that HMG, politicians, the media and experts picked holes in last time. Just saying it will be better to be able to make our own decisions won’t hack it. And what about the people who want independence but not the EU? We had a clear majority to remain, but there is no doubt that the EU isn’t perfect and needs change. And then comes the next question – what happens if Indyref2 is unsuccessful? We talked about the last one being a once in a generation event, but if Indyref2 fails, we will never have another chance, ever. After all, SG governs only with the benificence of Westminster. Wasn’t that the basis of the HMGs legal argument before the Appeal Court? And given TM’s statement that she will do nothing to jeopardise the Union will we even get the chance this time round? I know this sounds negative, but I’m not. Just realistic about the difficulties ahead.

      • benmadigan says:

        “The problem is persuading people to change the status quo”. – They wouldn’t be changing the status quo, they’d be maintaining their place in the EU.

        OK – they’d be leaving the UK but don’t you think the EU would be generous and welcome Scotland with open arms?
        After all, if things work out well in the negotiations for Ireland too, the EU will lose only England and Wales while the UK will lose Scotland and Northern Ireland!!!

        And don’t you think Scotland will find that taking her place at the table among the nations of Europe is very different to being treated as a UK backwater that counts for nothing?

        • Therapymum says:

          Yes I agree with you, and hope that the EU will welcome us. However for many the Union is as great a part of their life, or greater, than the EU. They have known nothing different, and independence is a leap into the unknown. And can you honestly see NI uniting with Eire, with all the bitterness that still surrounds that relationship? What is clear is that Mrs May couldn’t care less about the devolved regions, and sees those governments as surplus to requirements.

          • hettyforindy says:

            Therapymum, you sound like a lovely mum, even a caring mum. Do you know that Scotland is NOT a region? Do you know that in fact ‘Mrs May’ does not see Scotland as surplus to requirements? You know why? Oil, whisky, land, water, nuke subs and wmd’s stored, cannon fodder, fishing, shooting estates for her pals, an NHS to privatise, cheap at the price, a nuke waste storage facility, ie Scotland has lots of land, and fracking, to name just a few reasons why Scotland is not surplus, if she was the rUK would ditch her like a shot!

            “Independence is a leap into the unknown’, oh aye, and that ‘Mrs May’ plan for brexshit is a leap into the known is it!

            People were told, in no uncertain terms, (in fact the only certain thing that the anti-independence gits could come up with), that the ONLY way to STAY in the EU was to vote NO! Maybe Therapymum wasn’t around at the time, too bsuy eating your cereal, getting the kids off to school and calling your husband out for questioning your narrow, backward, 1950s Stepford Wives style brianlessness.

            See ‘bettertogether woman’ if you can’t remember that pathetic, patronising, stupid film you made prior to the referendum in 2014.

            • Therapymum says:

              How patronising! Like it or not to Westminster, Scotland IS a region. That is what the counsel for HMG called us during the recent court case, which made me furious, and why I remembered it. I said that Independence was a leap into the unknown because for some people it seems a greater risk than Brexit because Brexit will affect the whole Union. That is not my personal opinion, and its presumptive of you to make that assertion. I was not Better Together during the referendum and have not changed my views. I am perfectly well aware of the assets we have as a country. And the greatest assets we have is our people. Unfortunately, people like you do not help our cause.

              • hettyforindy says:

                It sounded very much like your own view not that of Westminster. It may be that is the view of WM, but we should refrain from repeating their unionist mantra. Not sure I still get your point about brexshit ‘affecting the whole union’, being for some, less of a risk than Scottish independence. Scotland does indeed have many assets and resources, and that is what we must concentrate on. If you were ‘not better together’ what were you? There was a White Paper explaining what independence might look like, there were many many discussions, debates, (if we can call them that with unionists mostly shouting down any intelligent debate and preferring the default, too poor, too small) and, of course we all remember the disgraceful editing of Alex Salmond’s press conference where Nick Robinson blatantly lied saying that A.S, ‘didn’t answer’ an important question, ( when clearly to those who saw it, A.Salmond answered Robinson’s question!) on the 6 o’clock, main national news! These are the things we need to challenge every step of the way.

                So, maybe you can just be a bit more clear about what you mean next time. I am very wary of anyone who comes out with unionist mantra of questions/uncertainty, over independence, when questions were answered, or could only be fully answered with independence. No one in the SNP said that there were not any ‘risks’, they tried to reassure, and they tried to engage people in intelligent discussion.
                We have seen non of this ‘too many unanswered questions’ talk regards the WM government and brexshit in the media, not really.
                If Brexshit isn’t a leap into the unknown, I don’t know what is. Scotland is not a region and we need to question anyone who says it is, rather than as I say, repeat it on pro independence websites/blogs.
                As I say, perhaps be more clear about what you mean next time. Oh and I think I do help our cause, a tiny bit, by helping to call out the unionists and their lies, and by sharing actual information, and facts where ever I can. I will question those who do not clearly stand up for Scotland and work towards our independence, when they say that that is what they stand for.

      • Macart says:

        We don’t need to win the 55% over. Given the nature of 25-30% of that vote, reasoned debate and a winning smile is somewhat wasted onyhoo. We need only 6% to change their minds and I suspect a few more than that may do so at this point. 🙂

  3. handclapping says:

    And if it all goes wrong you’ll pay. How terribly Tory

    • hettyforindy says:

      In fact, if it all goes wrong we will ‘never ever have another chance’, the ‘once in a lifetime’ mantra again.

      Comment by Therapy mum;
      ‘There isn’t much time, and we will have to have extremely good answers to the parts of the Indyref1 that HMG, politicians, the media and experts picked holes in last time. Just saying it will be better to be able to make our own decisions won’t hack it. And what about the people who want independence but not the EU? We had a clear majority to remain, but there is no doubt that the EU isn’t perfect and needs change. And then comes the next question – what happens if Indyref2 is unsuccessful? We talked about the last one being a once in a generation event, but if Indyref2 fails, we will never have another chance, ever. After all, SG governs only with the benificence of Westminster’.

      If I remember rightly the ‘HMG,politicians, media and experts’ had little to say that actually ‘picked holes’ in the YES campaign’s positive, informative and engaging discussion. The unionists,those experts, those media hacks, those HMG paid officials, had absolutely nothing to offer the people of Scotland, until of course, the VOW. Their last ditch attempt to con the people of Scotland worked, not any holes picking.

      The commenter here telling us ‘there isn’t much time’. Hmm, what do they mean by that? How much time do they think there might be and what do they actually mean? Again, no clarity there.

      I remain sceptical about negative comments with little or no actual facts or explanation. Ok enough of this, though time is not wasted picking holes in some comments me thinks!

  4. Robert Graham says:

    Difficult to know where to start to be honest Paul you have covered all the points i wanted to make , Just how much is Labour in Scotland willing to accept on our behalf , with the prospect of Tory Government expected for the foreseeable future , workers rights are and will be on the chopping block that will be the first thing to go dismantle any opposition to the Tory mission .
    Maybe those who voted NO in 2014 now realise that the YES movement were telling the truth , and a slight sense of embarrassment has suddenly dawned on them it is not nice to be mugged worse when you know a simple act could have prevented it happening in the first place ,
    These good folk are now being treated the same as those who tried to warn them LIKE SHIT on a English boot , feel good folks dosnt it ? still love yer Union ? . Yah stupid fk/n fools .

  5. xsticks says:

    Oh I love it when you get angry Paul. You too Sam.

    The pair of you always manage to articulate my thoughts better than I could myself.

    As they say at T in the Park: Here we, here we, here we fkn GO!

  6. Andimac says:

    And how about the symbolism of the Tory hag delivering her “historic” speech whilst wearing a Black Watch tartan suit? Highly appropriate, I suppose, as that glorious regiment was initially raised to control rebellious Scots following the 1715 Jacobite uprising. Time to rise again, people!

  7. Andrew B says:

    Aye Cruella in a clown suit thinks we should all hold hands as we jump off the racist cliff into the arms of her beloved Donald I think f#####g not.

  8. Dave oh what says:

    There is absolutely no doubt we are going have to get our act firmly together for Ref 2. However, although there is a continuance of the informative websites online, and many working really hard, how are we to counter the anticipated hysterical disinformation that is expected? Can the websites & the National cope on their own? What is required & what can be done?

    • hettyforindy says:

      Big questions there Dave. The unionists are doing a good job as it is and people are not stupid, well most are not. They can see for themselves just exactly what is required because the alternative is a continuation of tory rule, being shackled to the so called UK, and a step up of the right wing, near fascist WM rule of their country, Scotland.

      Which websites are you referring to? Are you looking for info on how people might get together and disseminate info? Sounds like it. What do you mean, “cope”?

      Your comment is a ridiculously woolly and has lots of holes in it, be more specific, otherwise not worth the bother, unless you are being paid of course.

    • Therapymum says:

      Agreed.

  9. Tinto Chiel says:

    That was very eloquent, Paul.

    Could I put it more crudely to formerly No-Voting Scots? Decision time:grow a backbone or die.

    How much contempt and humiliation can you take?

  10. John Edgar says:

    May said if the EU “punishes” the UK no deal is better than a bad deal! The arrogance of this Home counties type!! How dare the EU not even accept our wishes, demands. We have left, we do not want the single market with obligations, bur all the benefits, especially for the City!
    I think the EU will not be accommodating. It is not as if we are trying to get into the EU, accepting the ground principles, but aiming for some accommodation in a transition phase.
    A part of the UK has voted to leave, the UK government forcing the rest to leave, it has insulted the EU, but it “demands” that we get benefits more than when we were full members and had a veto!
    The EU “non” to all her “demands” will bring her back to reality so getting no agreement will be easy! Threats from May do not go down well in the EU. As the UK is heading for the biggest deficit in history, has a horrendous trade balance and a weak currency, it is hardly in a position of strength to demand, let alone ask for favours. Hubris and post-imperial delusions of grandeur are making the UK paper tiger look even more clueless. Threatening from the outside make the task of the 27 easier. Ta Ta!
    Indyref2 follows.

  11. Davy says:

    Its SCOTLAND or the TORIES – time to choose.

  12. The Scottish Play says:

    ‘She has spoke what she should not, I am sure of that.’

  13. Hugh wallace says:

    Ok yes u are right on all counts but may doesn’t care she will let u have another referendum as she knows she will be able to rig it in there favour just like Cameron did . ? And what was the S N P reaction to a blatant and obvious rigged result she couldn’t sweep it under the carpet quick enough. It was so obvious on her face that she wanted to get it investigated but no she just rolled over and towed the line? So really what’s the point as only a fool repeat.s the same task and expect,s a different result ?

  14. Colin says:

    Maybe we should campaign for an even harder brexit, ask Westminster to close the Scottish parliament, beg for the nuclear subs to be moved up the Clyde next to the BBC, call for privatisation of Scotland’s NHS, make the tories our permanent government even if England votes labour although talks are under way at banning opposition parties which will go unnoticed anyway.

    • hettyforindy says:

      A good idea, and introduce very high tuition fees, that would hurt the well off, and no bus pass until you are at 64, and defo no ‘free’ prescriptions. Really hike up council tax for highest earners, (there are lots of em in Edinburgh) close the galleries, libraries, hike up prices of train fares, and permit parking, all those 4x4s in the New town, take up masses of space. There must be other ways to p**s off the ditherers, who just can’t bare to let go of their ‘precious’ UKOK.

      But no, they are quite content to shaft Scotland while reaping the benefits of SNP NOT imposing austerity on the people of Scotland, rich and poor. Many, possibly most, do want to stay in the EU, for their jobs, busines, travel, and their kids broadened opportunities, etc. They will vote for Scottish independence, and the WMgov know that. They are terrified of losing their cash cow, but you know, wouldn’t it be grown up and civilised if they made some grown up deals with Scotland instead.

      An independent Scotland could still be an asset to them, but no, their bullying tactics are what they know and it’s how they have always conducted themselves. Someone should tell the unionists it is now the 21st CENTURY.

  15. Walter Hamilton says:

    At the conference Sat. last, the lad with all the data said that a large number of young people would vote Yes, but they were the group that did not come out and vote, I think it was as low as 26% in the poorer areas and how it would only take 10% of these to come out and vote to get a clear majority. For whatever reason they did not come out and vote, we must get them out even if it means a shuttle bus, then to the polling station, baby sitters, bribe them, ply them with drink do whatever it takes, this is war and there is no second prize in war.

    • benmadigan says:

      totally agree Walter – loudhailers on cars driving out and about the areas, cars to ferry people back and forth to the polling station, escorts with umbrellas for people who want to walk, – whatever it takes!!!

  16. Clive Scott says:

    Unfortunately there are lots of folks not that fussed about the things that get us Yes folks exercised. It is only when things hit them and their family directly that they pay any attention at all. Three weeks before Indyref1 my dear wife was appalled to discover that the young girl doing her hair had no idea that there was a referendum happening. Yet she knew the minutest details of the goings on of trash “celebs”.

    With older people whom you would think would be better informed you quickly find their understanding of how the UK works to be limited to non existent. Exchanging views with the like minded on sites such as this is good to keep spirits up but Indyref2 will be won or lost on the number of one on one persuasive conversations the committed Yessers have with the soft No’s.

    • Andimac says:

      I agree wholeheartedly, Clive Scott. It’s only when those un-fussed folks find themselves paying more for their shopping, foreign holidays, imported goods, etc. that the penny will drop (much like the pound?). Many of our fellow citizens are fundamentally ignorant of the realities of politics, economics, international relations. Their world is built around fitba, a wee bevvy, the Sun, Record, BBC and so on. Only when the real world collides with theirs will some of them change, some not even then. I welcome Indyref2 but am under no illusion that it will be a certain victory, far less an easy one.

      • Therapymum says:

        Absolutely true. There was a poll that showed that people did not want to be worse off because of Brexit. Well, inflation is rising, food prices are rising because the pound has fallen. Real world.

        • douglasclark says:

          I fear that No voters will simply look back at ‘the good times’ and blame anything that thee or me would blame on Brexit as ‘just a wee downturn’ as they scramble to believe that porridge should be your staple diet and that medicine is only for rich folks. The duplicity of some, hopefully not all, no voters is endless in it’s self-deception. They genuinely believe that being exploited by the UK is better than standing up for yourself. It is frankly adolescent.

  17. Ah come on, Paul, tae be fair, she hid her wee tartan jackit on!

  18. mattseattle says:

    UKIP > Brexit > May > UKRIP

  19. Eilidh says:

    The New European article was very interesting and made a lot of sense to me. I am not British because the state says I am. I will never subscribe to such a socially constructed identity. I am Scottish and always be.When the 2nd Indy ref comes as it now almost certainly will the Scots need to put up or shut up.If we lose again then it will be time I think for me to spend as much time asI can in whatever other European country that will take me. I really hope my country takes the brave step to create its own destiny in the world

  20. Jonnny come lately says:

    The headlines here in some European newspapers are warning of a 30 % hike in the price of scots whisky post Brexit. However, as a consolation are saying at least people will still be able to buy cheap Irish whisky. Says it all really.

    Meanwhile Sturgeon looks to be backing out of Indref 2, and quite rightly so. The Snp have went from a position after the Brexit vote of retaining EU membership, then slid to retaining membership of the single market and now have moved to a position of “access” to the single market.
    The support for independence is unfortunately not there, which has seriously weakened the SNP’s hand.
    TM knows this, which is why Scotland has been brushed aside without a thought. I hate to say it, but Yes would be extremely foolish to go running headlong into a referendum that already looks to be lost. The only hope now is The Supreme court, as the majority of our people seem to have bottled it once again.

  21. Agatha Cat says:

    Have Labour in Scotland entered some weird suicide pact to offically coalesce with the Liberals and Conservatives? It doesn’t seem like the wisest move in their history, but I can’t see any other explanation for Kezia Dugdale and Ian Murray’s bizarre views.

  22. hoplite39 says:

    The thing that irritates me the most about Brexiteers, is that they have no idea how the negotiating process works. Before you can negotiate externally, you have to obtain a consensus internally. In effect, this means that you should negotiate and agree with a course of action with other internal parties. The only people who do not seek to obtain consensus are dictators and authoritarian regimes who railroad their position through internally through violence and other forms of intimidation.

    The Brexiteers insist that Remainers should just accept what they decide, yet there was no consensus established on many areas (such as the single market) in the June 16 referendum. However, the Brexiteers have made no attempt to do this. They have made no attempt to negotiate with the parties internally.

    The attitude of the Brexiteers leads me to to conclude two things. Firstly, that they are acting more like a dictatorship than a democracy. Secondly, that they can expect no support from Remainers, because they have made not attempt to negotiate and and obtain consensus with the Remain, whether that be in Scotland or the rUK.

    As a result, I feel no obligation to show solidarity with the Brexiteers camp. In their victor’s arrogance, they have made no attempt to negotiate and obtain consensus from the Remain side. So they can expect no support from me.

    They talk about patriotism and British Values, but they do not demonstrate tho values that their beloved U.K. Is supposed to represent. They are at best hypocrites and at worst opportunist liars.

  23. emilytom67 says:

    No matter how much the facts are in our favour the block Unionist/Orange NO,s will never ever change for one simple reason they consider themselves as Brits first and foremost,Scots a way if at all down the line,there must be around 40% of them so even though the hounds are at the gates of hell they will ignore all reason,I know my in-laws are unfortunately of this ilk,smart good folks but what is seared into their soul over hundreds of years cannot inmo be overcome.

  24. WP from Holland says:

    This new referendum will probably be centered on the question: Scottish or British?

    Staying in the UK means always give priority to Westminister making the real decisions, so your first identity needs to be British with Scotland mostly a cultural notion of shortbread and tartan. If your first identity is Scottish, then you cannot be satisfied by the present constitutional situation.

    This UK government leaves the people of Scotland no option than to chose between the two.

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